WEBVTT - Australia’s biggest mystery: Dan Box Pt.2 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.960 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:07.840 Detective sy a side of life the average person is 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.160 never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.080 For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.280 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.600 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.200 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.479 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.840 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.520 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.680 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.720 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.559 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.520 All right, then, welcome back Part two. Are we still 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.239 friends at this stage? I suppose we're still friends, threatening 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.360 that we're not going to have friendship. I can be 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:00.000 very fitable with my friends. Look, it's interesting sitting there 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.680 and talking about William Tyrell, and I know you know 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.240 how much emotion that invokes in me and I and 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:10.480 I'm not on my own. I'm sure you've spoken to 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.480 a lot of different people in researching the podcast, and 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:18.440 that it is just something that really triggers, is a 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.200 triggering thing for so many people who have you had 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.080 access to whilst doing the podcast. 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.720 Look, we've tried to speak to everybody. That's what that's 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:28.920 our job. Try and speak to everybody and then and 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:32.600 then go away and work out how to tell the 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:37.640 story from there. So William's biological family, Williams Foster family, 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.199 cops who worked on it at the time, the lead detectives, 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:46.920 We've tried to speak to them, with mixed success. People 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.160 who were in the street at the time, people who 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:54.520 became persons of interest, people who were caught up in 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:58.840 the investigation and charged with other offenses like Bill Spedding, 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:05.400 subsequently found not guilty. It's almost like you know that 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.000 old thing about dropping a stone into water and then 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.160 the ripples spread out. William went missing, and then the 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:14.920 ripples started to spread out, and the sheer number of 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.560 people who are affected either really close to where the 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.679 ripples start or just further and further and further out. 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:28.680 The sheer number of people involved is extraordinary, and all 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:34.240 of them have been hurt in some way either by 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.560 the fact that William went missing, and it is upsetting 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:38.919 or by what has followed since. 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.240 What's the saints of the community up there at the 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:43.040 Kendle is that. 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:49.600 You know, that's interesting. As time has gone on, I 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.600 think it's changed, and I've spoken to people up there, 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:56.560 and we were up there most recently around the tenth anniversary, 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.680 so that was a few weeks ago now and very 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:01.960 much which the feeling I got was people just didn't 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:06.600 want to talk about it anymore. It's a small it's 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:11.960 a village really, and it had been dominated by this 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.960 event for the past ten years, so that when people 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:19.160 say I'm from Kendall, oh, that's where that William Tior 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:23.840 went missing, and people without willing to meaning any disrespect 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.920 to his families, but they just kind of wanted that 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.640 to no longer be hanging over them, but of course 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.519 it is. And the other thing that's really surprised me 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:40.240 is that there was a sense of anger, not from many, 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:45.280 but from some, particularly who lived on Benner and Drive 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.560 at the time William went missing, so that's the road 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:53.200 where he was staying that weekend. A sense of anger 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.080 about maybe what happened, but also about what has followed 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:02.080 because for different reasons, you know, you get quite a 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.240 lot of people who go to Benerom drive effectively as 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:10.280 tourists sightseeing. People turn up and take photos or turn 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.000 up and film videos of themselves. And I'll be honest, 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.039 I did that as a reporter, but I didn't do 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.800 it for fun. And there's a lot of that and 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.200 it still happens, and you get people who turned up 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.080 at the time. Remember speaking to one of the neighbors 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.560 and he was angry. He talked about that first search 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.120 when you had hundreds, literally hundreds of people coming in 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.520 to look for William, and he was talking about how 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:41.040 stuff went missing from his property, like in his car 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.719 overnight that first night, and he thinks people were searching 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:51.320 for William and Nick stuff and others. A couple of 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.760 people have told me about how some of those searchers 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:59.840 were drinking and we're kind of not having a good 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.080 I don't think anyone's having a good time, but weren't 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:07.320 treating it with maybe the respect it deserved. And there's 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.640 a lot of anger about that, and I didn't expect 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:10.040 any of that. 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:12.920 The way you describe it, I can almost picture what 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.200 you're talking about. I can see how it would be 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:20.000 disrespectful when a three year old child the families. I 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:25.279 haven't spoken to the families, but biological or foster families 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.200 in a long time. How are they caping with this? 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:34.640 Our relationship, if I'm really honest with you, our relationship 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.320 with the two families is different. And this goes back. 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:43.160 I think we talked a bit about how people have 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.839 become quite partisan with this case. You're either for the 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:53.320 foster parents or you're against them, and it feels like, 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.560 you know, the two families have almost become two camps. 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.600 So we've spoken to both more than once quite a 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:07.480 few times. I've not spoken to William's biological mum. We've tried, really, 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.880 we've tried, and you can hear in the podcast some 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:13.160 of the work that's gone into trying to contact her. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:18.480 And I've not spoken to Williams's biological dad directly, and 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.560 again you can hear some of the work that's gone 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.760 into trying to contact him. And we're definitely if they 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.200 wanted to contact us, I think they know how to 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.400 do it, or at least I hope they do. And 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.520 I've said it in the podcast. If you do want 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.000 to talk about anything, even if it's just to criticize me, 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:41.000 please do so. Spoken to other members of that family, though, 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.880 how are they feeling. I don't think you ever recover 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.480 from there, this kind of a loss of a child. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.880 And remember, for them, it's a double loss. So William's 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.320 taken into foster care, so who's taken away from that family? 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.440 And then they're told the state is effective going to 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.880 look after him, the state, the minister becomes his parent, 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:09.160 and then he goes missing. So to have that double loss, 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:14.520 there's a lot of anger, and there's a lot of trauma, 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:22.240 and I think it's complicated and it makes that relationship difficult. 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.840 The only thing we can do with everyone, and we 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.200 do with them as well, is just try and be 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.640 as honest about what we're doing and why we're doing. 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.920 And we do try and reflect what they're feeling and 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.160 what they say in the podcast very much so. And 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.680 then there's the foster family, and the relationship with them 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:47.080 is different, and it's almost funny. I've met the foster 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.400 parents quite a few times over the years, and we 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:54.000 meet in safe houses or we meet in pubs, and 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.960 when we meet, we turn our phones off. And all 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.040 of that might sound paranoid if it wasn't for the 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.200 fact that they do know they've been under police surveillance. 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.280 They know that they've had listening devices in their house, 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.800 They've had COVID cameras outside their house, They've had people 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.600 listening to their phone calls. They've had listening devices in 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.640 their car, They've had undercovered police officers sent in to 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.360 try to talk to them. They know all of that 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.160 has happened, so they've got every reason to be paranoid. 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.800 It might still be happening now. So when we have 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:33.120 those conversations, it feels a bit cloak and dagger, but 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:37.120 also got to say, I can see why they want 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:42.480 to do that, but when it comes to how they're responding, 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:48.200 I think it's some of the same emotions. It's loss 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.880 and trauma. I mean, I've seen I've seen them in 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:56.800 tears a lot, and I've seen them grappling with the 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:01.680 loss and the effect it's had on them, and then 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:09.240 the loss of essentially becoming Certainly Williams foster mother has 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.880 become the suspect. The police have said that in court 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.080 they believe she had something to do with William's disappearance, 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:21.120 and the pressure that must come with that must be immense. 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:28.880 She's an incredibly strong and tough woman, But I've seen her. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.360 I've seen her cry and I've seen her broken, and 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:40.320 she might not. She's also very private and probably wouldn't 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.679 appreciate me saying any of this, but I've seen the 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:49.920 emotions she must be feeling almost take control. And the 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:54.880 same with Williams foster dad. And you know, I'm never 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:56.600 going to know what it's like to lose a three 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:58.960 year old child, at least I hope I never know. 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.359 I can't imagine what it's like to be in that positions. 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.000 But they keep turning up and they keep talking, and 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.439 same goes for biological family. We keep talking as best 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.720 we can, and you've got to give credit to both 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:13.280 of them for that. 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:19.520 I look the sadness and why I ask about both 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:24.840 families is that I understand the impact that a disappearance 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.120 or a crime of the nature of William's disappearance has 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:32.200 on families and people with connections with the child. And 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:37.640 then that coupled with all the controversy and turmoil surrounding 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:43.600 the investigation, and I can't separate myself from that because 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:48.080 I'm embedded in the content and I just feel like 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.679 it's it's so unfair, Like the one thing that you 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.800 would hope as families, as with the bearable kids, when 0:10:55.840 --> 0:11:00.520 the barable kids disappeared, that everyone would be united heading 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:05.280 like as in law enforcement, the governments whatever, united in 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.280 finding out what's happened to what's happened to their loved ones. 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.800 And yeah, with the William case, they see the two 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.120 of them frow in the arguments, the internal conflict within 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.520 the police. What's happened to me? And that must give 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.079 must not give them a great deal of confidence And. 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.360 Yeah, no, and I look, there's a part of me 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:27.480 that really hopes the police have got this right. So 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.560 the current detectives when they come out, and I've seen 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.960 them say it in court, we believe that the foster 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.680 mother had something to do with what happened to William. 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:43.760 I mean bluntly. They believe that William maybe fell from 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.400 the verandah in the house, there was some kind of accident, 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.520 and that she chose to cover that up, almost a 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.720 snap decision to cover it up, and that she drove 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.240 his body away and disposed of it. There's a crossroads 0:11:58.240 --> 0:11:59.920 a few hundred meters away and we can get in 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.680 to all of that. But that's what the police think 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:05.520 as far as we can know, and that's what they've said. 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.400 And there's a part of me that hopes they've got 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:12.360 it right, because, well, A, then we know what happened, 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.920 and we know who's responsible, and maybe we can find 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.320 where William is in the grieving process, can move forward 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:22.440 for all those people. But also because if the police 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.240 have got it right, then everything they've done to that family, 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:31.080 the Foster family, is kind of justified. And I'm talking 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:35.239 about their lives have been destroyed by the police investigation. 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.560 They've been on the front page of newspapers identified as 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:45.240 the suspect. Their friends, their neighbors, their families must be 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:50.200 looking at them and thinking, did you dispose of a 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.400 child's body? Did you do kind of the worst kind 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:58.320 of crime you can do. Everyone must be questioning them. 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.840 I know they've lost work. I know that their lives 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.320 have I mean, they haven't just kind of hit the buffers. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:09.480 They've been crumpled. But if the police have got it right, 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:13.960 then that's kind of justified. And so there's a part 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:15.960 of me that hopes the police have got it right. 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:21.360 But if they have, nobody's been charged. We haven't seen 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:25.959 any of that evidence. There's nothing public yet to back 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:27.880 up what the police are. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:31.319 Saying, Dan, can I make the point and I hear 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:35.960 what you're saying there. I was always considered someone that 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.839 played hardball when I go after investigations. I make no 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.800 excuses for that whatsoever. But there's lines that you don't cross. 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.520 What I've seen occur in relation to the foster mother, 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:55.040 the Foster family, I think it's been absolutely brutal. And 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.120 I asked the question. I asked the question, what if 0:13:58.120 --> 0:13:58.880 they got it wrong? 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.880 Yeah, we go back to in the first part of 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:08.920 this conversation, we said that your investigation of William Til's disappearance, 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.520 part of that was described as the worst case of 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:16.080 malicious prosecution in the state. If the police have got 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.760 it wrong, and it is a big if, but if 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:22.280 they have, then I think you're looking at the same 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:27.479 kind of judgment here, partly because it's the same tactics. 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.960 So you've talked about how you go in hard when 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:36.640 you were detective, and you know, as I understand it, 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:41.360 you're kind of thinking, was I've got this person of interest, 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.200 there's some evidence that means that they're worth looking at. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:48.440 I'm going to do everything it takes to either establish 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.880 their innocence or their guilt and it doesn't matter which, 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:53.720 but at least I can tick them off the list then, 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:58.160 And you would go in as hard as you knew 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:02.120 how because you we're trying to catch a killer, to 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.840 solve a homicide, and you'd use pressure tactics. So put 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:10.680 them under surveillance, pressure them, see if they would break. 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.000 The same tactics have been used against William's foster power. 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:20.360 Put them under pressure, see if they will break, use surveillance. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:26.240 It's exactly the same approach. And if yours was found 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.360 to be wrong, and if theirs is wrong, then it 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.119 absolutely deserves the same kind of public inquiry. 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:37.880 Yeah, well, I'll just address that, and I understand the 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.640 concept of what you're saying, but there's levels and degrees 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:47.480 in regards to Bill Spedding situation. There were charges laid 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.440 and I was comfortable. And when I say charges laid, 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.080 I didn't investigate it. I had specialists investigated. And I 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.880 don't want the drag Bill Spedding back into this, but 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.320 so we're just I'll just say it in a very 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:06.720 general term. It was investigated, evidence was obtained. Legal services 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.000 say there's enough to charge a person, the person's charge 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:14.400 and the courts acquitted the person. Okay, And I'll ask 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.240 you this because I want to keep it on track 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:21.240 with the podcast that you've got with the foster parents. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.320 I sat in court when they were charged with the 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.600 assault matters, which was very public, and I saw the 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.640 whole investigative team sit there, and I'll make these comments, 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.920 and I've earned the right to make these comments. That's 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.680 not how I'd manage an investigation, having all those people 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:36.720 sitting in the local court matter. When you're looking for 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:37.640 a three year old job. 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.080 You're talking about the detectives from the strike from US. 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.160 Yeah, so yeah, but we can talk about that. That's 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.880 just me venting because I'm really at the point with 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.840 this whole investigation that there's so many things that need 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.680 to be said that haven't been said. And I'm asking 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.960 you on your podcast. I sat in court during that 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:03.480 and I saw a senior detective giving evidence saying we 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.120 know where William Tyrell is. And then the question was asked, 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.520 well where is he yea to which the person didn't 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:15.080 have a I don't think a reasonable explanation. He's saying 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.240 under oath, we know where William Tyrell is. Then in 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.600 that same and correct me if I'm wrong, because I 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.359 was in there as an observer, you're in there as 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.880 a journalist reporting on it, that they in fact told 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.200 William's foster mother that they know what's happened to William, 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:34.600 they know where William is and again acknowledge that under oath. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.879 Yeah, and both of these things happen, and if they don't, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.280 then it's extraordinary because you're right. What did happen was 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.840 to the detectives on the strike force go to Williams 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.840 foster mother to serve with the summons to give evidence 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.400 at the Crime Commission, which is this hugely powerful, very 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.760 secretive body. You're not even allowed to tell anyone you've 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:58.800 received a summon. So they turn up, they give her 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:03.119 this thing and they say to her, you'll have to 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.600 live with it. We know what happened to William, we 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:10.600 know how, we know why they're telling her. We know 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:16.880 as a fact what you did to William. And that's 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:20.000 one thing. So I hope they've got the evidence to 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:26.359 back it up. But then in court, this detective he's asked, 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.280 do you know what happened to William? And he says yes, 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.000 and then he's asked, well, have you found William's body 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.960 and he says no, and he's asked again, but you 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.080 said you know what happened to William and he says, yes, 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.800 I do, Well have you found him? No, And the 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:45.159 two things just seem to be in like stark contrast. 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:49.600 But then later at a different court hearing, that same 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:54.520 detective is asked, so you know what happened to William 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.679 and he says something different. He says, well, that was 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.240 one of the theories, so point he says, yep, we 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.440 know what happened to William. And then later he says, 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:09.119 this is one of the theories. And those two things 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:12.560 seem in stark contrast as well, and you're just left thinking, 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.159 I really hope you guys have got the evidence to 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:17.000 back this up. 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:21.560 People that listen to the podcast, the upcoming episodes, and 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:24.639 are they are you going to take them into a 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:26.800 deep dive in those those sort of things that we're 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.480 talking about, because I found I found that watching quite remarkable, 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.880 and the fact that it wasn't reported on the way 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:34.840 I thought it would have been. So I'm sitting there 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.080 and I was gobsmacked what was coming out, but it 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:38.879 didn't really get it. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.600 Didn't get reported, reported on and that. Okay, so I 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.959 had the same thought process. But but when you're in 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:50.840 court as a daily news reporter, you've got maybe four 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.000 hundred words to describe everything from that day in court, 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.119 and all the other reporters in there were daily court reporters, 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.800 and for them, maybe that aspect that you're talking about 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.760 and I picked up on, it wasn't the big news 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.359 from the day, or maybe not. All of them have 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.360 followed the case for as long as you have and 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.560 I have, or as closely, and so maybe it just 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.000 didn't stand out to them. But I remember hearing that 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:20.720 and thinking that's a big deal, and then it wasn't 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.240 reported the next day. But that is what the podcast 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.280 can do. So we're telling this story differently. We've got 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.320 way more than four hundred words, but also we get 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:33.919 part of what the podcast does is go back to 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.439 the beginning of the investigation, so the moment of that 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.719 triple zero call where William's foster mother says he's gone missing, 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:45.760 and then we walk the investigation through from that point 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.320 over the years that followed, saying this was what was 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:51.560 done right and this was what was done wrong, and 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:56.800 there's both, but it allows people to understand it differently 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:01.359 because most people, like everyone over the past ten years, 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:05.720 have followed the William Tyrell disappearance in headlines or things 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.719 they've seen on their phone, or there's something on the radio, 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:13.359 or there's a bit on TV which is talking about 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:15.680 some evidence that came out today, But that evidence is 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.080 actually something that happens three years ago, and everything is 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.040 kind of in short bursts and is out of sequence. 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.159 No one before now has said, right, We're going to 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.560 go right from the beginning the whole way through, put 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:32.720 everything in the order in which it happened, and let 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.800 you understand it differently. And when you do that, so 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.479 I talked about this timeline we've drawn up. When you 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.960 see things put in that kind of order, it completely 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:43.280 changes the way you look at it. 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:47.879 I'm starting the longer I stay out of the cops, 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.360 I'm starting to look at it from a media point 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.760 of view rather than the policing point of view. Probably 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.240 still drift back into the policing point of view more 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:59.320 more not, But yeah, I see so many things come up. 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.320 I know when I gave and this is whine in 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.280 the back four years or so ago, when I gave 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:09.159 evidence at my criminal hearing I was saying things that 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.639 became public record on the reason I was looking at 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.280 a particular person, and I think that was very significant 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:20.560 what was out there. And to balance out where you've 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:23.040 got the Commissioner of Police orce soon you're police saying 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:25.640 there's only one suspect, and then some of the things 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.240 that I said on public record that I was looking 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:31.080 at when I was heading up the investigation, and that 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.719 just again, that just seems to be forgotten, just a brushstroke. 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.480 You're going to take the listener in this podcast into 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:39.240 that type of. 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.399 Depth we are. And the other thing we're going to 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:46.600 do is there's a whole bunch of different names that 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:50.520 have come up in this investigation as what you guys 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:53.240 in the cops called persons of interest, which basically meant 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.679 someone who requires further investigation. There's a whole bunch of 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.760 names that have come up, and we've heard stuff about 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:06.399 them in the public, and then we've just heard nothing, 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:10.159 you know, the inquest and the cops have stopped talking 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:14.639 about them. We're going to go back to those and say, okay, 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:17.399 so why did we start to hear about these people 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:23.240 and why has it stopped? Because to my knowledge, they 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:27.240 haven't been ruled out. No, there's no official body, not 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.840 the coroner, not the cops, have ever said this is 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:35.160 why we stopped looking at these people. And if there 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:37.560 isn't a reason why they stop looking at those people. 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:40.919 But the police are now saying it must be the 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:45.400 foster mother, which they seem to be saying, then how 0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:48.160 can they be so sure if we don't know for sure, 0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:50.600 they haven't ruled those people out. And we're going to 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.760 look at those people, and I promise you in more 0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:56.880 depth than they've been reported on before, because we've got 0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.960 the time, and we've got the resources, and we've also 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:04.960 got evidence that just hasn't been made public before from 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:08.240 different sources that we've collected over the years. But there's 0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:10.840 a whole lot of information out there that's never really 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:11.679 been reported on. 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:14.440 I'd be interested to see that, and I think that's 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:20.160 been been my frustration that over the years. And it's 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:23.400 been about two years now since the foster mother was identified. 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:27.520 It's been longer how long it's been, it's been about 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:30.720 three and a bit years. And I can remember when 0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:32.679 it happened. I wasn't in the country, but I remember 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:35.719 the news breaking and my first thought was well, they 0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:38.240 must have got something because they were so confident. Front 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:43.399 page of the paper, police quoted saying basically, we're close 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.200 to cracking this case. I remember thinking, well, they must 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:49.160