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Speaker 1: Dramatic old day.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday for the first time in a long time a

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Speaker 2: sentencing was broadcast alive, that sentencing being Aaron Patterson, the

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Speaker 2: mushroom Killer.

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Speaker 3: And it just happened before that. It's been livestream black.

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Speaker 2: There has been sentencing has been there've ha been cameras

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Speaker 2: allowed inside, but this is the first time it's been broadcast.

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Speaker 3: Live, if that makes sense, like a stream.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So she received life in prison with a minimum parole

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Speaker 2: of thirty three years. It's certainly a case which is

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Speaker 2: captivated not just Melbourne or Australia, but the world. And

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Speaker 2: here to tell us a little bit more take us

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Speaker 2: inside the Supreme Court, is Justin Quill, one of the

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Speaker 2: prominent lawyers here in Melbourne, partner at Thompson Gear Morning.

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Speaker 1: Quilly, Morning, Quilly, Good morning.

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Speaker 4: I was Spanish.

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Speaker 1: Well we're good. Was that what we're expecting thirty three

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Speaker 1: years without parole?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, the only real question going in was was

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Speaker 4: she going to get a chance of parole? Was she

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Speaker 4: going to get a chance to see the outside of

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Speaker 4: a prison cell or was it going to be life

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Speaker 4: with no parole? That was the that was really the

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Speaker 4: only question that that that we we had going in

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Speaker 4: and he's on a decided he'd show a little bit

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Speaker 4: of mercy. It could have gone the other way though,

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Speaker 4: if he if he, if we were waking up this

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Speaker 4: morning she got no parole, then I would I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: be that surprised about that either.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, hey, Quilly, how come so Aaron Patterson has murdered

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Speaker 3: three people and I think it was attempted murder on

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Speaker 3: the fourth. How come you get one life sentence for

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Speaker 3: three lives that you've taken. Surely they should be served

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Speaker 3: back to back so that she never gets out of prison.

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Speaker 4: Well, look, that's I wouldn't disagree with you. If we

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Speaker 4: did that, we'd have to build more prisons, and we

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Speaker 4: we like I mean that literally, and and we in

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Speaker 4: the great state of Victoria probably don't have enough money

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Speaker 4: to build new prisons. So I don't disagree with you.

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Speaker 4: But that is one of the genuinely one of the

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Speaker 4: major problems we have. It's a problem not with just

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Speaker 4: with a murder case, but you know, you see all

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Speaker 4: this machete violence going on at the moment and whatever,

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Speaker 4: and people say these people should be locked up for longer. Well,

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Speaker 4: the problem with that is if you're locked people up

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Speaker 4: for longer. You have more people in prisons. We need

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Speaker 4: to build more prisons. We're already at an absolute busting point.

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Speaker 3: It does seem like, oh, if you murder one, might

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Speaker 3: as well murder three. These are no difference.

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Speaker 1: I mean, her defense.

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Speaker 5: Counsel would argue that there is you know, there needs

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Speaker 5: to be scope for rehabilitation. I dare say, well, it's

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Speaker 5: incarceration for thirty three years, there is still a chance

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Speaker 5: for her to rehabilitate them.

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Speaker 4: I right, quily, Yeah, and that's right. There is also

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Speaker 4: this principle very similar to what you say, where the

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Speaker 4: principle in sentencing law which says you shouldn't make a sentence.

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Speaker 4: The point is not to crush the person. It's to

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Speaker 4: punish them, but not to absolutely crush them. And so

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Speaker 4: if you if you didn't allow them to be served concurrently,

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Speaker 4: and that's what we're talking about here. It's a question

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Speaker 4: of whether you allow them to be served concurrently or

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Speaker 4: whether they've got to be conserved served consecutively. And if

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Speaker 4: you allow them to be conserved concurrently, then then it's

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Speaker 4: less crushing. It's like, Okay, you've got a chance, you've

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Speaker 4: got a chance of seeing the outside of a jail, Celle.

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Speaker 4: I mean, let's be frank, though eighty three years, it

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Speaker 4: should be eighty three, I think, or eighty two when

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Speaker 4: the thirty three years is up. I can't imagine the

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Speaker 4: prison food is that healthy. She's not doing ice bas

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Speaker 4: and sauna in and longevity stuff, so I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: she's going to be around when she's eighty three. I

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Speaker 4: might be wrong, but you know, then again, having said that,

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Speaker 4: she's probably not going out boozing and smoking cigarettes, so

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Speaker 4: maybe maybe she's better off.

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Speaker 1: She'll probably last longer than Clint. To be honest. Just

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Speaker 1: before we let you go, Lauren brought up an interesting

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Speaker 1: fact yesterday. And it's a not so serious question. But

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Speaker 1: when they're going.

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Speaker 3: To court, is there like is this about a wardrobe?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Laws and I were like, who's picking the outfits? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Family allowed to send in clothes.

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Speaker 3: Did you get that from her wardrobe?

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Speaker 1: Court? Is there a susan's at the prison? A prison?

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Speaker 4: No? I know that they'll be her clothes. And and

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Speaker 4: I can tell you I think on day one at

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Speaker 4: law school, that's what they teach you. If you're acting

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Speaker 4: for a crook, you tell them, hey, dress up when

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Speaker 4: you come to court. So even if you've you know,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, you're facing a drink driving charge or

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Speaker 4: something like that and you're going before a magistrate, don't

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Speaker 4: don't turn up in the active were put a put

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Speaker 4: a put a nice sus on a certain tie? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: exactly exactly, And so yeah, that would have been would

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Speaker 4: have been thought about, They would have I would expect

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Speaker 4: there would have been a discussion between her and her

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Speaker 4: counsel about what to wear. Not not so much for

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Speaker 4: the sentencing. To be honest with you, at that point.

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Speaker 5: You know, she.

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Speaker 4: Bikini, it wouldn't matter. But in front of the jury,

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Speaker 4: in front of the jury, she would have been thinking

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Speaker 4: about or her legal counsel would have been thinking about

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Speaker 4: how she presented in front of the jury.

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Speaker 2: This is what Justice Christopher Bill was trying to do

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Speaker 2: yesterday by allowing this to be live stream, right, justin,

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Speaker 2: take people into the court, just try and teach them

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Speaker 2: something about what happens inside the four walls of the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, I thought I was in trouble there when

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Speaker 4: you called me justin. Look, that's absolutely right. And I've

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Speaker 4: got to say tudos to his honor, and hopefully more

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Speaker 4: judges do it as good a job as our court

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Speaker 4: reporters do every night on the news or you know,

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Speaker 4: in you know, the newspapers the following day, in explaining

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Speaker 4: to us what happened in court, as good a job

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Speaker 4: as they do, they can't do it as well as

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Speaker 4: hearing it from the horse's mouth. And I thought it

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Speaker 4: was brilliant from his honor. And I might say, when

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Speaker 4: you heard it all unfold, you were like, oh, wow, yeah,

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Speaker 4: she deserves a massive whack. Like you you really you

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Speaker 4: realize that he wasn't He wasn't taking it lightly, and

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Speaker 4: it allows you to. I think that's one reason why

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Speaker 4: there's not this uproar over the fact that she she's

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Speaker 4: got the chance for parole, because people realize, oh, he's

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Speaker 4: really taken this seriously. He really understands the gravity of this.

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Speaker 4: And and okay, he decided he's going to give and

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Speaker 4: I understand the reasons why he's given her chance for parole. Okay, fine,

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Speaker 4: no problem. You know, some people might disagree with her,

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Speaker 4: but no one could say having heard that, no one

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Speaker 4: could say he didn't get it. He was too.

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Speaker 1: So that's a job you wouldn't want.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely not. He quickly just before we let you go.

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Speaker 3: What sort of conditions will Aaron Patterson be living in

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Speaker 3: that Dame Phyllis Frost prison? Is she in her own cell?

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Speaker 3: What do what will her day to day look like?

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Speaker 4: Now? Yeah, not great and she's not It'll looked nothing

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Speaker 4: like your bedroom was, you know, all fancy we are talking,

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Speaker 4: we actually work honestly, like your walking robe is probably

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Speaker 4: bigger than herself and she The main thing is she's

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Speaker 4: in a management unit, right, and this is one of

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Speaker 4: the main reasons why he's on a gave her parole

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Speaker 4: with all the chance of parole because he said, you're

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Speaker 4: going to be locked up for twenty two or twenty

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Speaker 4: four hours a day. Yeah, yeah, And look that's for

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Speaker 4: her safety, not the other way around. But so not

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Speaker 4: all prisoners. Most prisoners are in general population, and they

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Speaker 4: are you know, they circulate with other prisoners, talk to them,

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Speaker 4: they can play as them, exercise with them, et cetera,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. The whole prison goes into a lockdown when

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Speaker 4: her and the other management unit prisoners get hour or two, yeah,

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Speaker 4: and they're out on their own. So she's in a

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Speaker 4: yard with there's a mesh wire around it, and she

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Speaker 4: can talk to the person in the yard next to

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Speaker 4: through the mesh, but that's her only contact with people,

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Speaker 4: and otherwise she's twenty two. And that's why he's on.

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Speaker 4: I said, your your time served is going to be

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Speaker 4: much harsher. So your thirty three years is going to

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Speaker 4: be much harsher than thirty three years that we might

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Speaker 4: give Joe blow next week. So that's one of the

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Speaker 4: main reasons why he's on. A gave her brother. I

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Speaker 4: might say, as notorious as this case is, and as

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Speaker 4: I think you said at the start, as you know,

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Speaker 4: captured not just Victoria and Australia, but right the way

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Speaker 4: around the world, and that is absolutely true. But time passes,

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Speaker 4: memory fade, and she's got thirty four years and I

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Speaker 4: guarantee you in thirty years time, people are going to

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Speaker 4: be saying, Aaron who And so I just don't think

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Speaker 4: that she's going to need to be in this management

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Speaker 4: you that certainly for change.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, my change. Thank you. Justin Justin Quill partner

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Speaker 1: Thompson Gear join us on the air. Good on you courly,

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Speaker 1: thanks your time mate, Thanks Thanks Claric God. We struggled

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Speaker 1: with two years in lockdown and it was in our

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Speaker 1: house going for a little walk. We did nothing right, No,

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Speaker 1: exactly right.

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Speaker 3: That is twenty four hours a day she's locked in

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Speaker 3: that little.

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Speaker 1: Cell, no katies in there. That to buy your garment.

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Speaker 3: It's sad Justin Clill has no idea what the inside

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Speaker 3: of my bedroom looks like.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was my be's my follow up question.

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Speaker 2: I mean it doesn't take that much imagination.

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Speaker 1: No, I think your red Count is going to be

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Speaker 1: a little bit different than Aaron Patterson's Lauren wake up.

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Speaker 3: Feeling good of them on the socials.

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Speaker 2: Yeah,