WEBVTT - Tanya Plibersek and the billion-dollar gold mine

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks everyone for joining us today. Unfortunately this is a

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<v Speaker 1>call that we have hair very disappointing day for us.

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<v Speaker 1>For those who don't know, my name is Jim Birol.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been a bad few weeks for Jim Bayer, the

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<v Speaker 2>CEO of Australia's third largest gold miner, Regius Resources. He's

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<v Speaker 2>had to tell investors that a billion dollar project could

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<v Speaker 2>be dead and millions of dollars wasted.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're here to provide a briefing on the surprising

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<v Speaker 1>and disappointing Section ten declaration made by the Federal Minister

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<v Speaker 1>for Environment and Water, Tania plibask on Friday morning in

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<v Speaker 1>relation to mcphillamy's.

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<v Speaker 2>The plans for a gold mine in New South Wales

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<v Speaker 2>had been through all the approvals and the boxes had

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<v Speaker 2>been tecked, but then came the decision from the Environment Minister,

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<v Speaker 2>Tania Plibisek to intervene on the behalf of a group

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<v Speaker 2>of traditional owners.

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<v Speaker 3>Have called us and they've informed us another.

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<v Speaker 4>Sessions and that we're part of the Vlari songline, which

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<v Speaker 4>is a love your life.

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<v Speaker 3>Headwaters is now protected under second Sex.

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<v Speaker 2>The industry, the coalition and parts of the media are

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<v Speaker 2>all furious. Some even suggesting that cultural heritage laws are

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<v Speaker 2>being hijacked by green groups. So is that true? From

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<v Speaker 2>Schwartz Media, I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM today,

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<v Speaker 2>National correspondent for the Saturday Paper. Mike Second Montanya Plivsek

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<v Speaker 2>the gold mine and who gets a say when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to mining projects. It's Thursday, August twenty nine, So Mike,

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<v Speaker 2>let's start with this planned one billion dollar gold wine.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell me about the project and who's behind it?

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<v Speaker 5>Right, Well, actually it's more than a one billion dollar project.

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<v Speaker 5>That that was just what they thought they were going

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<v Speaker 5>to make a profit out of it. So the project

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<v Speaker 5>was going to be near Bathist in Regional New South Wales,

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<v Speaker 5>just west of Bathist. Was proposed to be an open

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<v Speaker 5>cut gold mine called the mcphillamy's Gold Project, and it

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<v Speaker 5>was being developed by a company called Regis Resources, which

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<v Speaker 5>is Australia's third biggest I think gold miner.

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<v Speaker 6>Every community needs new industry to keep the town growing.

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<v Speaker 2>Mcilamies would bring jobs and attracts people and attracts families

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<v Speaker 2>to the community.

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<v Speaker 5>Regious Resources claimed the project would have supported about five

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<v Speaker 5>hundred and eighty full time jobs during construction and two

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<v Speaker 5>hundred and ninety odd jobs when it was in production.

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<v Speaker 2>To not have to leave the town at.

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<v Speaker 7>All, increase our house prices, keep the builders busy, ken

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<v Speaker 7>the electricians busy.

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<v Speaker 5>They would extract up to sixty million tons of ore

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<v Speaker 5>and from that they would get two million ounces of gold,

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<v Speaker 5>So it was a pretty big deal. Would have delivered

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<v Speaker 5>two hundred million dollars in royalties to the New South

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<v Speaker 5>Wales government. And the planning had been going on for

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<v Speaker 5>seven years, something like that community consultation. I think they

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<v Speaker 5>might have dealt with something like twenty three different community groups,

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<v Speaker 5>including indigenous groups, preparation of environmental impact statements, all that

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<v Speaker 5>sort of stuff. Finally it was ticked off by the

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<v Speaker 5>New South Wales Department of Planning, Industry, Environment and then

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<v Speaker 5>it was referred to the state's Independent Planning Commission and

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<v Speaker 5>they ticked it off and it was granted approval under

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<v Speaker 5>the Federal Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Act. To all intents

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<v Speaker 5>and purposes, the MIND proponents thought at that point it

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<v Speaker 5>was a goer, and then this month, at the very

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<v Speaker 5>last minute, that was all unraveled when the Federal Environment

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<v Speaker 5>Minister Tanya Plibisek.

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<v Speaker 2>Intervened right okay, so we have this mine all set

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<v Speaker 2>to go ahead, approvals ticked off, consultation done and these

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<v Speaker 2>jobs expected. Then the minister intervened. So what did Tanya

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<v Speaker 2>Pubsect do.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, it goes back a few years before she said no.

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<v Speaker 5>There was an application for protection for the entire area

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<v Speaker 5>of the mine made in twenty twenty one on behalf

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<v Speaker 5>of a quite small group of traditional owners called the

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<v Speaker 5>Wrajeri Traditional Owners Central West Aboriginal Corporation, and two weeks

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<v Speaker 5>ago Plibisek approved their application. She didn't actually protect all

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<v Speaker 5>the mind site on cultural heritage grounds, so of the

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<v Speaker 5>full two thy five hundred hectar site, she protected a

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<v Speaker 5>much smaller part for roughly four hundred hectares. It so happens, though,

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<v Speaker 5>that that protected area covers virtually the entire planned tailings dam,

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<v Speaker 5>and Regius Resources says that's crucial to the whole operation.

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<v Speaker 5>No tailing dam, no mine, So the whole thing's stopped. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So the mining company is saying, as a result of

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<v Speaker 2>this decision, the mine will no longer go ahead.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, they're not quite killing it off. I've been passing

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<v Speaker 5>their words fairly carefully. Currently unviable were the words used

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<v Speaker 5>by Regius Resources ce Jim Bayer. But still it looks

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<v Speaker 5>like it looks like hundreds of millions of dollars down

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<v Speaker 5>the gurglar. I mean, even if they were to try

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<v Speaker 5>and revive it, they would presumably have to go back

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<v Speaker 5>to the drawing board right because their tailing stam has

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<v Speaker 5>been ruled out. I might add plibisek reckons they can

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<v Speaker 5>find another site for the tailing stam. The company at

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<v Speaker 5>this stage says they can't. So we've got a standoff.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't have a site for a tailing stam, so

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<v Speaker 1>makes it pretty hard to step forward with the project

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<v Speaker 1>without that what we've got.

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<v Speaker 5>Bey gave this quite bolshie, I think you would say

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<v Speaker 5>briefing to his investors, where he said.

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<v Speaker 1>Regis considers this Section ten declaration shatters any confidence the

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<v Speaker 1>development proponents Australia wide, both private and public, can have

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<v Speaker 1>in project approval timelines and outcomes.

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<v Speaker 5>And he went on the implications of this decision and

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<v Speaker 5>not limited to the resources industry.

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<v Speaker 1>But also developers of infrastructure, renewable energy property, as well

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<v Speaker 1>as tourism operators, farmers and owners of freehold land.

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<v Speaker 5>More generally, the Association of Mining and Exploration Companies, which

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<v Speaker 5>is one of the peak bodies for the extractive industry.

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<v Speaker 5>It came in firmly behind REGIS and they raised the

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<v Speaker 5>old specter of sovereign risk and saying that investors would

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<v Speaker 5>lose confidence in investing in Australia.

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<v Speaker 6>Understandably, after this and some other resources projects being blocked

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<v Speaker 6>because of indigenous heritage claims, the mining industry is worried

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<v Speaker 6>about the sovereign risk of trying to invest in this country.

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<v Speaker 5>The heads of the Minerals Council of Australia and the

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<v Speaker 5>Business Council of Australia among others, weighed in as well

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<v Speaker 5>and got stuck into the regulatory system. Their complaints were

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<v Speaker 5>amplified through the reporting in various media, most notably you

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<v Speaker 5>know the Murdock papers, the Conservative papers and Kerry Stokes's

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<v Speaker 5>West Australian paper, the West Australian. And you know there

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<v Speaker 5>was I guess you would say the usual intemperate commentary

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<v Speaker 5>by right wing pundits about approvals processes being hijacked by

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<v Speaker 5>green groups and so on.

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<v Speaker 3>Mistake, this is economic suicide because this is a government

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<v Speaker 3>that's putting its faith in green ideology rather than the

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<v Speaker 3>industries that have long been the foundation of our prosperity.

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<v Speaker 3>Someone who identifies as an elder has told the minister

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<v Speaker 3>she can hear the ancestors, and next.

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<v Speaker 2>Boom, the mine is blocked.

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<v Speaker 8>I mean that seems to be what it is.

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<v Speaker 3>It is baseless and fast.

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<v Speaker 7>Of all, how she could sleep at night worries me.

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<v Speaker 7>But maybe she's got voices in her ear, because you

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<v Speaker 7>know she's had these secret voices, these people who claim

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<v Speaker 7>to be from this when we're a jer what is

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<v Speaker 7>it called, we're a jury, We're a jury jury clan. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 7>how you know this is say credit?

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<v Speaker 5>Now, I think you can say that there was more

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<v Speaker 5>than the usual amount of blowback on this decision. Right.

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<v Speaker 5>Flpisex decision was also roundly attacked by the federal opposition.

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<v Speaker 4>If a business wants to come and actually do a development,

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<v Speaker 4>we have that data, that understanding of impact on environment

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<v Speaker 4>that I think it's now time for a secut time

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<v Speaker 4>that's on approvals.

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<v Speaker 5>So I think it's fair to say that the level

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<v Speaker 5>of complaint about this decision went well beyond the usual

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<v Speaker 5>griping of the resources sector and its media and political advocates.

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<v Speaker 5>This was the full court press, So it was an

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<v Speaker 5>unusual reaction. But then this was also an unusual case.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you mean by that, Mike? What makes this

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<v Speaker 2>case unusual?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, plisk is the Minister for the Environment, right, but

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<v Speaker 5>her decision was not specifically about protecting the natural environment.

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<v Speaker 5>It was about Aboriginal cultural heritage. And the decision was

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<v Speaker 5>made under Section ten of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait

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<v Speaker 5>Islander Heritage Protection Act. It's never been used by flibber

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<v Speaker 5>sc before. I think she has knocked back several, but

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<v Speaker 5>she'd never approved one before, so it's a very rarely

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<v Speaker 5>used section of the law.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So what we have then is at the very

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<v Speaker 2>last minutevironment minister making a decision that's not about the environment.

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<v Speaker 2>Should we believe that that is the case? Is it

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<v Speaker 2>credible that this decision is actually not environmentally related?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, well, there are claims out there, particularly by the industry,

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<v Speaker 5>that these Section ten claims, these these Aboriginal heritage claims

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<v Speaker 5>are being used as a kind of backdoor way to

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<v Speaker 5>achieve environmental outcomes. That you know, Plipasek was really about

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<v Speaker 5>protecting the environment in this area, which happens to be

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<v Speaker 5>the headwaters of a fairly significant river YEP and.

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<v Speaker 8>It relates to cultural heritage, the protection of cultural heritage,

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<v Speaker 8>the imminent threat of destruction.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 5>So I spoke to Tania Plipsec about this, and she

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<v Speaker 5>firmly rejected any suggestion that her decision, which protected the

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<v Speaker 5>headwaters and the springs associated with this river, was taken

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<v Speaker 5>out of environmental concern.

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<v Speaker 8>No, I mean, the decision completely relates to cultural heritage protection.

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<v Speaker 5>But yes, there were environment groups also opposed to this project.

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<v Speaker 5>There was the Belubula that's the name of the River

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<v Speaker 5>Headwaters Protection group, for instance. They were worried about the

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<v Speaker 5>potential impact on the river system because you know, wastewater

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<v Speaker 5>from gold mining is notoriously toxic and Taling's dams are

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<v Speaker 5>notoriously prone to mishap. It's interesting also that the Environmental

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<v Speaker 5>Defender's office provided legal representation both to the indigenous group

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<v Speaker 5>and to the environmental group that were opposed to it,

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<v Speaker 5>and campaign for public donations to help fund the fight. So,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, it's interesting that plebisec consists it's entirely about

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<v Speaker 5>cultural issues, but pretty clearly there's a big overlay of

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<v Speaker 5>environmental activism in there as well.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break, the claims that the Heritage Protection Act

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<v Speaker 2>is being hijacked. So, Mike tiny plibisex, she's used the

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<v Speaker 2>original entist Rod Islander Heritage Protection Act in this case

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<v Speaker 2>and this decision relating to a new South Als gold mine,

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<v Speaker 2>and you say that decision is unusual. In fact, it's

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<v Speaker 2>the first time that she's actually granted protection under that Act.

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<v Speaker 2>So could you just tell me a little bit more

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<v Speaker 2>about Section ten and what it's designed to do?

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<v Speaker 5>Right? Well, the mining industry has complained for several years

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<v Speaker 5>that applications made under this particular section of the Act

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<v Speaker 5>are proliferating and they have a dare i say, a

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<v Speaker 5>reasonable case to make. And while mine's are the most

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<v Speaker 5>common target, you know, they do also affect other developments,

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<v Speaker 5>as they have alluded to in his briefing the other

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<v Speaker 5>day to his investors. There was a report by the

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<v Speaker 5>law firm Ashurst a couple of years ago that found

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<v Speaker 5>that the number of applications had been trending up since

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<v Speaker 5>about twenty nineteen and that there had been an unprecedented

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<v Speaker 5>number was what they described it as in the twelve

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<v Speaker 5>months up until twenty twenty two when the report came

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<v Speaker 5>out and they went through and they detailed quite a

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<v Speaker 5>number of these Section ten applications, and they related to

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<v Speaker 5>a very wide range of proposed developments. Among them was

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<v Speaker 5>roadworks near Kuroi and Queensland, underground power lines near Kempse

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<v Speaker 5>in New South Wales, a residential housing development in Ginderbyne

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<v Speaker 5>in New South Wales, and the one that I thought

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<v Speaker 5>was most interesting, which was a wind farm on Robins

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<v Speaker 5>Island in Tasmania. So it highlights an interesting internal conflict.

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<v Speaker 5>I guess within the green movement that in this particular

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<v Speaker 5>case they have made common cause with an indigenous group

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<v Speaker 5>to knock over what at one level looks like an

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<v Speaker 5>environmentally positive project a wind farm.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, and so you said earlier that there is this

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<v Speaker 2>concern that Section ten might be being used by people

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<v Speaker 2>with one agenda, whether that is environmental or perhaps otherwise,

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<v Speaker 2>to try and block a project that they don't agree with.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that the problem here, Mike. That's something that's designed

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<v Speaker 2>to be used to only protect indigenous heritage sites can

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<v Speaker 2>potentially be used in these other ways.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, yes, and you know I don't want to be

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<v Speaker 5>mistaken for some rabid right wing here. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 5>note that when Plebisk made this decision, the federal opposition

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<v Speaker 5>Shadow Minister Ofurces, Senator Susan McDonald came out and accused

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<v Speaker 5>the Labor government of encouraging anti mining activists to use,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, these cultural considerations for their own purposes. She

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<v Speaker 5>called it death by stealth and said that genuine concerns

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<v Speaker 5>were being weaponized. There's a degree of hyperbole on both

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<v Speaker 5>sides here, I think, but particularly on the conservative side,

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<v Speaker 5>you know. And even worse was Senator just Center Price,

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<v Speaker 5>who gave some comments to The Knightly, which is a

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<v Speaker 5>sort of pro mining new newspaper established in Western Australia

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<v Speaker 5>by a number of mining billionaires, including Kerry Stokes and

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<v Speaker 5>Gina Reinhardt. The headline on the story Regius Resources colon

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<v Speaker 5>Justenta Nampajinpa Price fumes over fake Indigenous Australians after New

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<v Speaker 5>South Wales gold mine shafted, and in her quotes to

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<v Speaker 5>the newspaper she said that she had spoken to genuine

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<v Speaker 5>Wiradjeri people and that a lot of people who were

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<v Speaker 5>claiming to be indigenous in fact weren't. Now, this was

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<v Speaker 5>an outrageous insinuation, absolutely outrageous. There's no evidence of that

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<v Speaker 5>at all, but there is I think a legitimate question here,

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<v Speaker 5>which is who speaks for indigenous interests and on whose

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<v Speaker 5>behalf they speak. In the case of this gold mine,

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<v Speaker 5>there was this local group, but there was also a

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<v Speaker 5>land council, the local land council, which had no problem

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<v Speaker 5>with the mind whatsoever. So we have competing indigenous factions,

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<v Speaker 5>one pro development and one anti development, and todate. We've

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<v Speaker 5>seen anti development First Nations groups making common cause with

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<v Speaker 5>environment groups. Those actions tend to be celebrated by progressives,

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<v Speaker 5>but it could be a two edged swort. You know,

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<v Speaker 5>there's no reason why write groups could not use Section

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<v Speaker 5>ten claims. You know, for example, the anti climate change

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<v Speaker 5>people could quite easily move to stop you know, wind farms,

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<v Speaker 5>solar developments on the basis of Aboriginal heritage concerns. So

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<v Speaker 5>you know, this is a two edge sword that can

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<v Speaker 5>cut left and right, I guess is my argument here.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So when you look at how this process unfolded them,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly in regards to this mind in South Last, if

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<v Speaker 2>we come back to that and the arguments being made

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<v Speaker 2>around the Heritage Protection Act being weaponized, I mean to

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<v Speaker 2>what extent do you think that those arguments are exaggerated

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<v Speaker 2>or do you think that there is a case to

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<v Speaker 2>be made here that the entire approvals process needs change,

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be reformed.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, I think you put your finger on it there.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, obviously you have to take consideration of the

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<v Speaker 5>environment and of the cultural implications for Indigenous folk. You know,

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<v Speaker 5>that has to be part of the process. I think

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<v Speaker 5>the overarching problem here is that the process is so

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<v Speaker 5>bloody long that it goes seven years in this case

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<v Speaker 5>of this particular mind, and then at the last minute's

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<v Speaker 5>knocked over. When I spoke to blibersecond about that, she said,

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<v Speaker 5>absolutely correct. You know, the process takes a very long time.

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<v Speaker 5>The current government is moving to try and expedite matters

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<v Speaker 5>as best it can, and would that necessarily expedite claims

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<v Speaker 5>of this current Section ten type claims.

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<v Speaker 8>Well, one of the proposals we have is a new

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<v Speaker 8>national standard for First Nations consultation, which would make it

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<v Speaker 8>clear much earlier in the piece who the right people

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<v Speaker 8>are to talk to.

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<v Speaker 5>And I think that is probably the answer here. It's

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<v Speaker 5>not a problem with the fact that this section exists.

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<v Speaker 5>It's the fact that it can be cited quite late

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<v Speaker 5>in the piece and can bring things to a grinding

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<v Speaker 5>halt right at the very.

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<v Speaker 2>End, Mike, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 5>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>Also in the news today, Green's leader Adam Bant wants

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<v Speaker 2>to see big business taxed at forty percent. Speaking at

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<v Speaker 2>the National Press Club, Ban singled out fossil fuel companies

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<v Speaker 2>as the types of multinationals that made quote obscene profits

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<v Speaker 2>and should be giving more back to the public. Bant

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<v Speaker 2>called it a robin Hood tax. Meanwhile, the Minerals Council

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<v Speaker 2>of Australia, the leading advocate for Australia's oil and gas companies,

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<v Speaker 2>called it economic sabotage. And inflation is finally coming down,

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<v Speaker 2>with the RBA announcing the July rate at three point

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<v Speaker 2>five percent, down from three point eight percent in June.

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<v Speaker 2>The ABS says electricity rebates driving down energy prices have

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<v Speaker 2>helped curb inflation this month, but economists say the drop

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<v Speaker 2>is unlikely to result in an interest rate cut. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.