Speaker 1: Doctor Cam. Welcome back to the Bloody You Project.
Speaker 2: How are you very well? Thank you Harps.
Speaker 3: Now I'm off the back of some lovely time in
Speaker 3: Tasmania supporting some schools down there with some personalized learning.
Speaker 3: It's now back into full health professional mode.
Speaker 2: It's very exciting.
Speaker 1: I grew up in Tazzy Well. I did some of
Speaker 1: my growing up in Tazzy In Well. I was going
Speaker 1: to say Hobart technically across the river from Hobart, but
Speaker 1: I love it down there. I actually had this chat
Speaker 1: with TIFFs the other day whose she's over there at
Speaker 1: the moment. If I had to live anywhere but where
Speaker 1: I live, it would actually be Tazzy And I know
Speaker 1: that's a weird choice for some but it's so beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely everybody knows everybody.
Speaker 2: It's just everybody comes back.
Speaker 3: It's talking to a lot of the people there. They
Speaker 3: all went away in their twenties because they thought they
Speaker 3: had to escape, and as soon as they thought about
Speaker 3: having kids, they said, there's only one place I want
Speaker 3: to bring them up.
Speaker 2: It is so beautiful, great little now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's like a big, just country rural
Speaker 1: with everything that you need, especially in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: but it is twenty twenty five, but it kind of
Speaker 1: feels like nine point eighty five over there, And I
Speaker 1: mean that with love for me. It's like stepping back
Speaker 1: in time in a good way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the shops have just got slightly bit slightly better
Speaker 3: posts posters on their windows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they have what were you doing so person?
Speaker 1: So people just pricked up. There is a few of them.
Speaker 1: And when personalized learning, what is that?
Speaker 2: It is? Well, we actually do precision learning.
Speaker 3: So precision personalized learning is I know that children are
Speaker 3: different and I'm going to try some different things. I'm
Speaker 3: going to get feedback from those children, and based on that,
Speaker 3: I'm going to use my intuition to make it a
Speaker 3: little bit different for them.
Speaker 2: Precision learning is where we actually.
Speaker 3: Take quantified objective assessment of the child to understand what
Speaker 3: are their Cicadian rhythms, what are their bio logically driven
Speaker 3: learning styles, what are their biologically driven behavioral tendencies, what
Speaker 3: are the things that we've got to think about for
Speaker 3: their well being.
Speaker 2: So we.
Speaker 3: Do that profiling on the kids in a company with
Speaker 3: the school obviously and the parents, and then we provide
Speaker 3: the school AI tools that allows them to say, Hey,
Speaker 3: I've got a child here with this particular profile that's
Speaker 3: behaving this way, what's the underlying cause of that biologically,
Speaker 3: and what are the things that I can do about
Speaker 3: it biologically and psychologically to support them.
Speaker 2: So it becomes.
Speaker 3: A really, really wonderful way because often a lot of
Speaker 3: educators will see a behavior and then use a strategy
Speaker 3: to stop the behavior. And often the behavior is stemming
Speaker 3: from a stress and the child is under some sort
Speaker 3: of stress, and so their biology outs itself and then
Speaker 3: that symptom gets And I'll give you an example. Kids
Speaker 3: sitting still, needs to move, wants to move, moves, gets
Speaker 3: told sit still, and they go, oh, now, I'm really
Speaker 3: angry and frustrated just because I'm not allowed to do
Speaker 3: what my body wants to do. But we are now
Speaker 3: explaining to them, well, the factors that are making them
Speaker 3: actually want to move are their adrenal system, their steroid sensitivity,
Speaker 3: the way that the musculoskalidal system has developed for this
Speaker 3: child in particular, they want to move, and if they don't,
Speaker 3: they're going to turn, They're going to completely disengage and
Speaker 3: get frustrated. So if you let them move, if you
Speaker 3: let them snack actually have a huge benefit. We've got
Speaker 3: some teachers out there that now have a really great
Speaker 3: principle where'll the kid will actually call it on themselves
Speaker 3: and say I think I need to go move for
Speaker 3: five minutes. It's this proactive self awareness piece of go move.
Speaker 3: They let them go out of the side the classes
Speaker 3: in year five, shoot a few hoops, come back in
Speaker 3: completely settled, and they're taking real ownership of their behavior
Speaker 3: because they're understanding why is this child going into strands?
Speaker 3: And there's this a lot of the time that I'm
Speaker 3: talking to parents and educators. It's about.
Speaker 2: Developing greater compassion for why.
Speaker 3: A behavior is the way that it is. And the
Speaker 3: funny thing is that adults do the exact same thing themselves.
Speaker 3: Like we've all got our own stresses. We're just much
Speaker 3: smarter at at a rationalizing blame and reasons as to
Speaker 3: why we're stressed, as opposed to really understanding the reason.
Speaker 3: So it's a big compassion job and that's what we're
Speaker 3: doing out there, and you know it's with a year
Speaker 3: into some research now we're about to do some observational
Speaker 3: data for the first intake of people with Southern Cross
Speaker 3: UNI so it's been a really beautiful extension from the
Speaker 3: health professional work I've been doing for a long time.
Speaker 1: That's amazing, that's bloody, that is so exciting, that is
Speaker 1: so needed. Yeah, and teachers have it so hard because
Speaker 1: you're working in, you know, something of an outdated system
Speaker 1: in some ways in that you know, you've got thirty
Speaker 1: kids being taught with one particular model or style or
Speaker 1: protocol and thirty different you know, biologies and psychologies and
Speaker 1: emotions and personalities and fucking attention spans and all of
Speaker 1: that myriad of variables. And then it's like you've got
Speaker 1: thirty kids who don't feel well, and we give them
Speaker 1: all the same medication despite the fact that they're all
Speaker 1: got different ailments. You know, it's not a great analogy,
Speaker 1: but it's not terrible. But yeah, I think the thing
Speaker 1: is people don't realize that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: But my kind of thinking is the behavior is not
Speaker 1: the problem. The behavior is the symptom. We need to
Speaker 1: figure out what's the underlying driver of that behavior that's
Speaker 1: not perhaps appropriate or desirable or optimal in that setting.
Speaker 1: So if we can figure out what is the underlying
Speaker 1: driver or mechanism or whatever the fuck we want to
Speaker 1: call it doctor cam that's not too science y, and
Speaker 1: then deal with that. Then we're going to get kids that,
Speaker 1: like you said, you go run round, spend some energy,
Speaker 1: throw a few hoops, or eat a fucking you know apple,
Speaker 1: or scream in scream into a pillow, and then come
Speaker 1: back whatever it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's exactly right. And the funny thing is
Speaker 3: I normally start this whole conversation with the educators and
Speaker 3: we go through all of many of the different environmental
Speaker 3: factors that actually drive their own stress, and we go
Speaker 3: through some funny little examples, like you can you can
Speaker 3: exercise at a time that's not ideal for your body,
Speaker 3: and that will raise your cortisol levels for the next
Speaker 3: four hours if you do it at the wrong time.
Speaker 3: But another person that they drop back down in fifteen minutes.
Speaker 3: And I know that we've discussed that at some point
Speaker 3: along our way on our journey together.
Speaker 2: Whereas a person can have they can walk into a
Speaker 2: room and it's twenty two degrees and I.
Speaker 3: Always do this as an example when I'm speaking they
Speaker 3: who hates air conditioning, and then I asked them, how
Speaker 3: do you feel when you've got air conditioning that's up
Speaker 3: too high or too cold, and they say, I feel angry,
Speaker 3: and then I say, everyone just checked that for a second.
Speaker 3: We've got this person right here and they are genuinely
Speaker 3: angry because of the temperature. And you walk in and
Speaker 3: you're having an interaction with this person and they don't
Speaker 3: respond the way that you think they will because they're
Speaker 3: angry about the temperature. But when do we ever think, Ah,
Speaker 3: it's got to be the temperature that's causing this person
Speaker 3: to be a little.
Speaker 2: Bit aggrad We never ever think that way.
Speaker 3: Similarly, and there's some really fascinating stuff. We go through
Speaker 3: a whole lot of things, whether it be the different
Speaker 3: types of food that can cause the same thing, lack
Speaker 3: of sleep, even a crowded environment versus a like an
Speaker 3: isolated environment. But another really fascinating part of it is
Speaker 3: you can spend time with people in the same space
Speaker 3: and through the electromagnetic radiation that comes off your heart
Speaker 3: and heart rate variability. This has been studied by heart
Speaker 3: math for the last seventy years, you can actually change
Speaker 3: your persons. If you're in a stressed state and you're
Speaker 3: standing next to somebody who's neutral, they don't know it
Speaker 3: but they walk away in a more stressed state. Their
Speaker 3: heart rhythm actually mimics.
Speaker 2: The more stressed person next to them.
Speaker 3: And if you've got people on mass that are stressed,
Speaker 3: it en mass stresses the other people as well. And
Speaker 3: so we really talk about self accountability because and any
Speaker 3: those things that can disrupt your heart rhythm can be
Speaker 3: I caught this person at the wrong time of day.
Speaker 3: They weren't ready for it because they didn't finished their
Speaker 3: second coffee. I was ready for it because I'm feeling
Speaker 3: great right now. We've not had a great conversation. All
Speaker 3: of a sudden, they're stressed because I'm rushing them at
Speaker 3: the time when they don't want to be rushed. They're
Speaker 3: now in a foul mood. They go and talk to
Speaker 3: somebody about that. And psychology is more infectious than bacteria.
Speaker 3: It's amazing a bad mood and how it pushes out
Speaker 3: into the system. And so a lot of the work
Speaker 3: that we talk about is let's actually have some grace
Speaker 3: for people.
Speaker 2: And even if you go.
Speaker 3: Through like when you have a bad interaction with somebody,
Speaker 3: imagine if you were to say, oh, as you're walking away,
Speaker 3: maybe it was their exercise this morning that made them
Speaker 3: a bit stressed. Maybe it was the broccoli that they
Speaker 3: had that was giving them a bit of mental fog.
Speaker 3: Maybe it was the lack of sleep that they had
Speaker 3: because their kid poked them in the eye at three am.
Speaker 3: Maybe it was the temperature in the room. Maybe it
Speaker 3: was just they were surrounded by a bunch of buggers
Speaker 3: with a bad heart rate the day, the moment before
Speaker 3: I walked in, and in that moment, you've gone through
Speaker 3: five different compassionate understandings of why is this person stress?
Speaker 3: Because at the end of the day, everyone just displays
Speaker 3: the result of stress or the result of the stress
Speaker 3: on their system. So it's a very powerful message and
Speaker 3: it immediately creates a whole lot more grace when you're
Speaker 3: dealing with people.
Speaker 1: I apologize for not looking at you. I was listening
Speaker 1: to you. I was trying to find I was trying
Speaker 1: to find a But yeah, I did a little video
Speaker 1: on Insta a week or two ago about a thing
Speaker 1: called into personal neurobiology, Right, So the impact that you
Speaker 1: have on others, which is what you're talking about. And
Speaker 1: it's funny how literally being around just like let's say
Speaker 1: I love you and you love me, we're mates, which
Speaker 1: of course we are. But like, well, I like you,
Speaker 1: and but we haven't spent much time together, but I
Speaker 1: like you, and I would imagine for me being around
Speaker 1: you because I'm interested in you. I think you're a
Speaker 1: good dude. You've got good energy, you've got good intentions.
Speaker 1: I like you, right, So I would think just being
Speaker 1: in proximity of you, not necessarily even giving you a
Speaker 1: hard or talking to you, but being near you would
Speaker 1: do good things for me, so selfishly I want that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Conversely, just being near somebody that I think is a
Speaker 1: fox stick, right, it's rightly or wrongly, just like some
Speaker 1: people think that of me, I'm sure. But it's like
Speaker 1: when you're around people that you perceive to be toxic
Speaker 1: or whatever, or not trustworthy or dangerous. You know that
Speaker 1: has a psychological, emotional, and physiological consequence as well.
Speaker 3: Right, yes, absolutely, And this is where we know that
Speaker 3: you've got three people in a room, and unspoken, they
Speaker 3: can be facing a different way. Unspoken, the fourth person
Speaker 3: in the room will mirror the heart rhythms of those
Speaker 3: other three people. If they're calm, they will mirror calmness.
Speaker 3: If they're all stressed, that person comes in and their
Speaker 3: heart rhythm will show stress and so and what we
Speaker 3: know is that that heart rhythm that's related to resentment
Speaker 3: and frustration and all of the negative emotions that we
Speaker 3: carry around with us when we're not dealing with our stuff.
Speaker 3: We know that that heart rhythm is also highly associated
Speaker 3: with cardivascular disease, type two, diabetes, cancer, every chronic disease
Speaker 3: that you can think of, there's a dysfunction that comes
Speaker 3: along with those emotions. So I really make the point
Speaker 3: that you can shorten a person's life by not taking
Speaker 3: responsibility for the state that you turn up in. And
Speaker 3: it's and I know that it seems like an extreme
Speaker 3: thing to say, but hang out in a bad relationship
Speaker 3: for three years, your health declines and your mental health
Speaker 3: just goes to pot. You're not having a good life,
Speaker 3: And it's definitely it's definitely creating an environment that shortens
Speaker 3: it as well. So this and the really important part
Speaker 3: of this is that so much of this stuff it's unconscious,
Speaker 3: Like it's not in our normality to speak about the
Speaker 3: air conditioning causing a bit of stress, the time of
Speaker 3: day causing a bit of stress. I'm holding onto resentment
Speaker 3: about this thing that happened from my childhood. You know,
Speaker 3: it's just not part of our normal conversation. In fact,
Speaker 3: it's a little bit sensitive and people all get a little.
Speaker 2: Bit funny about it.
Speaker 3: But these are truly the things that are influencing us
Speaker 3: day to day's. And just always assuming that a person
Speaker 3: is doing their best but they just don't know what's
Speaker 3: causing their stress. Is a really nice attitude to bring
Speaker 3: to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a it's a different kind of
Speaker 1: awareness I talk. I've spoken a fair bit about when
Speaker 1: I was a kid. When I was you know, in
Speaker 1: my early twenties, I figured out I didn't want a job.
Speaker 1: I wanted to work, but I didn't want to buss.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be an employee. And I just
Speaker 1: figured out what kind of work model in inverted commas
Speaker 1: worked for me. And also even now, you know, I've
Speaker 1: I've created an environment at home, like I'm in my
Speaker 1: office now. I have a studio downstairs to record. I
Speaker 1: record up in my office sometimes. But one thing that
Speaker 1: nearly everybody says when they come to my office is
Speaker 1: I fucking love your office. Because outside is just all
Speaker 1: forty foot trees, inside a big comfy leather chairs, there's
Speaker 1: just this big, mushy carpet, you put your toes into
Speaker 1: the recording studios, cool my out. You know, it's just
Speaker 1: like an environment. Even if I'm not thinking, I'm not
Speaker 1: consciously interacting with it. Subconsciously, it had this great impact
Speaker 1: on you know, everything from my nervous system to know
Speaker 1: my brain biochemistry to everything where oh I'm healthier and
Speaker 1: happier and more focused and more productive. Even if I'm
Speaker 1: the same bloke doing the same task, but if I'm
Speaker 1: in this environment, I work fifty percent better, you know.
Speaker 1: And as the amount of times where I've said, somebody
Speaker 1: tell me about your office and they're like, well, I
Speaker 1: do you want to know? And I go, you know,
Speaker 1: and basically they work in an environment that they don't
Speaker 1: like being and it's not stimulating. They don't feel good.
Speaker 1: There's no nature, there's no view, there's no and you know,
Speaker 1: just trying to talk to them about the idea of well,
Speaker 1: you're in that office, you know, thirty to forty hours
Speaker 1: a week, what can we do that might might make
Speaker 1: that a better place, not just aesthetically or whatever, but
Speaker 1: from a literally from a biological point of view for you, like,
Speaker 1: we're you know, and I think we don't think too
Speaker 1: much about the consequences of not only the relationship we
Speaker 1: have with other humans, but with our pets, and with
Speaker 1: our environment, and with our workplace and with you know,
Speaker 1: in fucking nature, with everything, with.
Speaker 2: Ourselves, you know, like the amount.
Speaker 3: And I was just speaking to a friend just before
Speaker 3: this call, and it was a good way to thinking, like,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm like the amount of real estate that
Speaker 3: I'm giving to certain people by thinking about them so much,
Speaker 3: you know, but they're actually causing me.
Speaker 2: Stress to think about them because they're stuck in my head.
Speaker 3: And this person's been in my life for a year,
Speaker 3: and it's and we often talk about this little quote
Speaker 3: when we're discussing having hard conversations with teams and things
Speaker 3: like that. And resentment is like drinking poison, thinking the
Speaker 3: other person is going to die.
Speaker 2: It's just like what you're holding is affecting you.
Speaker 3: It's and to your point, you know, there's a number
Speaker 3: there's particular people. Obviously it's important for you, and it's
Speaker 3: definitely important for me. There's particular people that the first
Speaker 3: bit of homework I'll give them is to, hey, have
Speaker 3: you got any cluttered rooms at home that.
Speaker 2: You want to clear up.
Speaker 3: Just go and clear that up this weekend, and they
Speaker 3: come back with a breath of fresh air. It just
Speaker 3: the background stress that can occur. And I know that
Speaker 3: I've mentioned it once already, but if you've had a
Speaker 3: bad relationship and then all of a sudden, that relationship stops,
Speaker 3: the background stress that you've been holding on to, the
Speaker 3: void that that leaves is remarkable. But we just think
Speaker 3: we can push on and carry on, but it infiltrates
Speaker 3: every interaction we have, every bit of energy we have,
Speaker 3: and it's good to assume that people have got their
Speaker 3: own stuff going on when you haven't had the perfect
Speaker 3: interaction with them one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: You know what that reminds me of two Cam is,
Speaker 1: you know the things that you know you need to do,
Speaker 1: they're on the to do list, but you keep pushing
Speaker 1: them further and further down because you kind of you
Speaker 1: know you need to, but you don't want to because
Speaker 1: you're scared, or it's going to be uncomfortable or hard
Speaker 1: or inconvenient or uncertain, or there's you feel there's some
Speaker 1: you know, but whatever, and then you do it and
Speaker 1: you're like, ah, fuck, why didn't I do that like
Speaker 1: a year ago? And by the way, how awesome do
Speaker 1: I feel now? Where there's low level anxiety constantly because
Speaker 1: there's a conversation we're not having, or a thing we're
Speaker 1: not doing, or a behavior we're not embracing, or a
Speaker 1: habit we're not owning up to. You know, It's like
Speaker 1: when you go, all right, okay, so I'm going to
Speaker 1: do It's not going to be fun, quick, easy, or painless,
Speaker 1: but that are and then you do it, you're like, shit,
Speaker 1: why didn't I start a year ago?
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3: The the it's it's just amazing what we cope with.
Speaker 3: It's amazing what we cope with and were just and
Speaker 3: the fascinating thing about it as well, And this is
Speaker 3: a big message that we're driving all of the time,
Speaker 3: is the importance of mindfulness, the importance of just stopping
Speaker 3: and checking in with yourself.
Speaker 2: And sometimes the symptom of.
Speaker 3: That is you get really tired because if you're if
Speaker 3: you're cartersold drops and you're neure adrenaline drops and you
Speaker 3: don't mean drops because you have a mindful moment which
Speaker 3: doesn't involve hyper focus, that actually involves the opposite in
Speaker 3: many ways. If that happens, you then get to register
Speaker 3: how your body's actually feeling.
Speaker 2: But before that you were fine because you were riding.
Speaker 3: Essentially, the stress hormones that mask your sense of self.
Speaker 3: And this is this is both a biological thing and
Speaker 3: a psychological thing. You know, when you're running and you've
Speaker 3: got a bit of a niggle and then next day
Speaker 3: it's blown out into this full on tear or whatever
Speaker 3: it might be, it's stress hormones mask what's going on.
Speaker 3: And then once you rest and recover, that's when you
Speaker 3: really understand where your body's at and the you know,
Speaker 3: this is where you can go from I feel fine
Speaker 3: to sick and lying in bed the next for the
Speaker 3: next week, when you were you know, absolutely sprinting towards
Speaker 3: a deadline as well.
Speaker 2: And it's it's that.
Speaker 3: When you're constantly on the go, a little bit underslept,
Speaker 3: a little bit more caffeinated, a little bit more on
Speaker 3: edge with a relationship, a little bit more urgent with work,
Speaker 3: a little bit more worried about people are thinking about,
Speaker 3: all of that just suspends you away from yourself in
Speaker 3: a disconnected.
Speaker 2: Space, and that then doesn't allow you to.
Speaker 3: Say, oh, I'm in a stressed state and I can
Speaker 3: identify that you just think I've got to keep going.
Speaker 2: And it's and this is so powerful.
Speaker 3: Just to bring people into a moment of breath, just
Speaker 3: to just for five minutes so they can check themselves
Speaker 3: out for a second.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's a routine that we don't teach.
Speaker 1: We started, I started we at the You Project, started
Speaker 1: a new mentor and group this week on Monday, and
Speaker 1: it's it's ten weeks and week one is called Life
Speaker 1: Design one oh one. You'd love week one right because
Speaker 1: it's it's in your wheelhouse, right. And I was just
Speaker 1: talking to people about I give this example, mate, where
Speaker 1: I say, all right, let's let's let's say this. I'm
Speaker 1: going to give you an acre of land looking at
Speaker 1: the ocean, and I'm going to give you two million
Speaker 1: bucks or three million bucks to build what whatever you want.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got all the council permits. Everything's good.
Speaker 1: You've got the land, you've got three million bucks. You're
Speaker 1: going to build a house looking at the ocean. You know,
Speaker 1: when are you going to start building? Like you've got
Speaker 1: it today. And they're like, what do you mean, I'll
Speaker 1: go well when you are starting and like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I've got a you know, I've got it. I've got architects,
Speaker 1: and I've got designers and landscape gardeners and furniture to
Speaker 1: you know, and then we go through this whole thing
Speaker 1: where well, you would probably plan and structure and timeline
Speaker 1: and chews and you know, like manage all of these
Speaker 1: variables to create create this house that you want to
Speaker 1: live in so it's perfect and it's optimal for you,
Speaker 1: and it's right now, we're talking about a house. So
Speaker 1: we spend all this time on a thing that could
Speaker 1: literally burn to the ground, but we spend five minutes,
Speaker 1: if we're lucky, designing our life right, because we're it's
Speaker 1: like we're on this unconscious auto pilot and now I'm fifty.
Speaker 1: Oh fuck, this wasn't my plan. Oh could I see
Speaker 1: the plan? What can I see the plan? There's no
Speaker 1: fucking plan, right, because most of us don't really have
Speaker 1: a plan. We just have an idea of how things
Speaker 1: might work out, or how we hope they'll work out.
Speaker 1: But in terms of a plan and a structure and
Speaker 1: a process and accountability, and you know that the way
Speaker 1: that we would manage the building of a house, we
Speaker 1: don't really do apply the same ideas or processes to
Speaker 1: building our optimal life. And so we were just talking
Speaker 1: about very much about stepping out of the autopilotness of
Speaker 1: your three out of ten existence into this conscious creation
Speaker 1: rather than this unintentional kind of journey. And people like
Speaker 1: I've never even thought about it. I go, that doesn't
Speaker 1: make you bad, it's just normal. And how many people
Speaker 1: if you go, do you want to be healthier? Yes?
Speaker 1: Would you like to make more dough yes? Would you
Speaker 1: like to be less stressed, yes, would you like a
Speaker 1: better job, yes? Would you like you know? All these
Speaker 1: and then you go, cool, what are you doing about
Speaker 1: all of those things? What you know?
Speaker 2: What I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yet, of course you're not going to fucking
Speaker 1: accidentally win. You're not going to accidentally win, you know.
Speaker 1: So this openness, I think, and I think also it's
Speaker 1: important to point out that it ain't about self loathing.
Speaker 1: It's about self awareness and honesty. And you've got to
Speaker 1: be brave, right, You've got to be brave to acknowledge
Speaker 1: the shit that's not working.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely absolutely, And it's that's one of the things
Speaker 3: that I'm often doing. And I get about a point
Speaker 3: five percent strike rate on this question, and that is
Speaker 3: who's planning what time they're going to bed tonight, right,
Speaker 3: And it's in this context of well, you've planned every
Speaker 3: bit of stress in your life, but you haven't planned
Speaker 3: any kind of recovery.
Speaker 2: And it's the recovery that enables you to grow and
Speaker 2: be stronger and various.
Speaker 3: Things like it's a very very baby version of that something.
Speaker 2: That you're doing that's far more powerful.
Speaker 3: But it's it's we don't prioritize for the outcomes that
Speaker 3: we want. We just as you said, we hope.
Speaker 2: So it's yes, that's great, it's cool.
Speaker 1: I want to come I want to come back to
Speaker 1: the start of the conversation where you were talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, working with the kids in tazzi At. Do
Speaker 1: you want to give a shout out to the school
Speaker 1: or do we not allow to do that?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: No, We've got we've got some incredible schools that we
Speaker 3: were working with down there. The first we're in a
Speaker 3: research partnership with the hutch And School down there. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: which is that's fancy.
Speaker 1: I know that's a fancy school.
Speaker 3: It is a fancy school. They have just got the
Speaker 3: most incredible staff. They've taken this information on really well.
Speaker 3: They you know, we were working them for a couple
Speaker 3: two years two and a half years now and have
Speaker 3: done a whole lot of work with them and now
Speaker 3: it's really starting to land for the parents, which is great.
Speaker 2: I did some work with St.
Speaker 3: Virgils as well, doing some work with Fun School down
Speaker 3: there too, working with some a couple of schools up
Speaker 3: here too. But the it's been it's been amazing working
Speaker 3: with those schools down there, and there was a particular
Speaker 3: there's some really really fascinating tools that are becoming available
Speaker 3: now because one of the hardest things for educators is right, great,
Speaker 3: you've given me a precision learning profile for twenty five kids.
Speaker 2: What now you know how am I supposed to do this?
Speaker 3: And this is where the things that we've been working
Speaker 3: on you can essentially plug in. I want to do
Speaker 3: this lesson and I've got all of these children in
Speaker 3: the class. Can you differentiate the instruction? Can you provide
Speaker 3: an assessment that leans into each child's strengths. So what
Speaker 3: you have for like we're going to study the weather
Speaker 3: patterns of Perth or whatever it might be for a
Speaker 3: year four project.
Speaker 2: Some kids are out.
Speaker 3: There in the wind measuring wind and doing something experiential.
Speaker 3: Other kids are analyzing stuff online and writing a report.
Speaker 3: Another one comes up and gives a little talk. Another
Speaker 3: person gets a small group together and leads that because
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you just want them
Speaker 3: to know about the weather patterns. How you they're actually
Speaker 3: ticking the criteria off is less important, but the fact
Speaker 3: that they can do it is very important from a
Speaker 3: curriculum standpoint. And the whole idea is that if we
Speaker 3: know that you're really great at this, then let's get
Speaker 3: you to do that. And what we know if someone
Speaker 3: sits in their natural strengths, it lowers their stress, it
Speaker 3: increases their productivity. It actually increases their sense of self
Speaker 3: and their sense of contribution and makes them engage socially more. So,
Speaker 3: you can have the most introverted person instead of being
Speaker 3: told to go out into the wind, because often true
Speaker 3: introverts are very sensitive to the wind as well, which
Speaker 3: is interesting. Cold temperature and being out in the wind
Speaker 3: and doing experiments would stressen out. If you let them
Speaker 3: have their nice quiet corner and do their work, they're
Speaker 3: much more likely than to have the energy to come
Speaker 3: and interact. But it's just you know, the tendency is
Speaker 3: to say, oh, look, my experience is this, so you
Speaker 3: should be good at this too, and oh you're a
Speaker 3: little bit quite great, get into toast masters and will
Speaker 3: make you louder. Oh you're a little bit loud. Great,
Speaker 3: Let's get you into something quiet like detention or something
Speaker 3: where you consist.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 3: And a really fascinating example will come up at a
Speaker 3: different school altogether. And we were going through the process
Speaker 3: with father and son and the son just wasn't interested
Speaker 3: at all, and he was in our model. He was
Speaker 3: a crusader. Crusader's are strategic rule breakers. They're very intelligent,
Speaker 3: and they know where the boundary is, they know what
Speaker 3: they can get away with, and they'll just push, particularly
Speaker 3: if they don't feel like they're in control. And so
Speaker 3: this is exactly what this child was doing, swearing at me,
Speaker 3: but like being really I mean, his dad was not
Speaker 3: loving it. It was so fascinating. We pulled the AI
Speaker 3: up and said, look, we've got a crusader here that's
Speaker 3: expressing a whole lot of defiance. What could be causing this?
Speaker 3: And the AI said, look, this type of person. They're
Speaker 3: looking for control, they're looking for autonomy, they're looking to
Speaker 3: feel like their thoughts are important. They like a sense
Speaker 3: of structure, they need context, they need outcome.
Speaker 2: So the best way to support them would be X,
Speaker 2: Y and Z.
Speaker 3: Like the intelligence that we now have, and what that
Speaker 3: does is it honors the child. Like what we now
Speaker 3: know is that child is lacking autonomy, lacking independence. And
Speaker 3: of course the language isn't great, but what are we
Speaker 3: seeing here. We're seeing a child in stress, That's what
Speaker 3: we're seeing. So let's deal with the stress rather than
Speaker 3: let's just bash the symptom on its head. And this
Speaker 3: is where precision learning is going to.
Speaker 2: Where it's where.
Speaker 3: It's where it's available right now, essentially, where we can
Speaker 3: have these very very powerful insights into the biological driver
Speaker 3: of behavior, which the reason why I'm interested it is
Speaker 3: that creates this incredible compassion. You get a wonderful sense
Speaker 3: of I understand you, and it's amazing. Even my son
Speaker 3: in a today, he's very fiery, and he was very
Speaker 3: very fiery in the car today, even just knowing that
Speaker 3: he just needs to vent it out, he needs to
Speaker 3: play some physical games where we're hitting each other for
Speaker 3: a second and then he starts laughing, just knowing that
Speaker 3: I've got to hold that space, let him get it
Speaker 3: off off off his chest, and then he normalizes rather
Speaker 3: than saying, mate, you can't talk like that. You've got
Speaker 3: to fix yourself up. You've got to do this. Why
Speaker 3: aren't you doing that? Like having the whole conversation? And
Speaker 3: when I do do that, you just see his energy
Speaker 3: sink and it goes the wrong way. So it's just
Speaker 3: how can we understand more about what's driven that stress?
Speaker 2: Just if we were talking about the start, it's it's
Speaker 2: it's a very very exciting space.
Speaker 1: Do you Is it all biologically driven in terms of
Speaker 1: the behavior and the learning stuff, because you, yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't really talk much about the psychology or the emotional stuff,
Speaker 1: but does the biological stuff pretty much determine the psychology
Speaker 1: and emotion.
Speaker 2: What's the right.
Speaker 3: It's the way to think about it.
Speaker 2: It's not nature versus nurture. It is nature through nurture.
Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is you put two people,
Speaker 3: one hates air conditioning, one loves air conditioning in a room.
Speaker 3: The environment the nurture. The nurture is the environment that's
Speaker 3: the environment around us, or could be a person. Whatever
Speaker 3: the environment says to one person's genes. I'm really cold,
Speaker 3: and that person's gene says, I hate the cold.
Speaker 2: I'm now aggravated.
Speaker 3: Whereas another person the cold comes at their body and says,
Speaker 3: I'm really cold. The cold says I'm cold, and the
Speaker 3: body says, thank God, because I was overheating. I feel
Speaker 3: really calm. And so what happens is you get the
Speaker 3: nature of this person shining through as a result of
Speaker 3: the environment. So when we're talking about the psychology, let's
Speaker 3: say that we have a child that's been abused.
Speaker 2: Their biology will deal.
Speaker 3: With that in a way that's unique to their biology.
Speaker 3: So let's say that you've got a like a drenalized
Speaker 3: testosterone driven body and they are given a trauma. What
Speaker 3: we see is heightened heightened aggressivity or the other thing
Speaker 3: we could see meekness, and we know that there's a
Speaker 3: pathology there because they should be outward with their energy,
Speaker 3: for example. So whereas another individual goes through that same trauma,
Speaker 3: and normally they're very reserved and they're more participators rather
Speaker 3: than initiators, and they don't have the same energy to
Speaker 3: be up and out. They're more conservative. They think about
Speaker 3: things for three or four weeks before they respond to things,
Speaker 3: and so what that's going to do to that individual.
Speaker 3: It's just going to shut them down even further, or
Speaker 3: it may make them explode really regularly. But if we
Speaker 3: understand the biology as a psychotherapist, psychologist, whatever it may be, you.
Speaker 2: Can say, well, I know what's normal for your biology,
Speaker 2: so what.
Speaker 3: Part of your childhood or your life circumstance has altered
Speaker 3: your normal response And it allows for much more directed questioning.
Speaker 3: If we know that we've got a really fiery person
Speaker 3: and they are really meek and non competitive and not
Speaker 3: showing any signs of that. And I've dealt with many
Speaker 3: of these people and I've just said, hey, you should
Speaker 3: be a little bit firier, like angry, and by the
Speaker 3: end of the session they're crying. I've never been allowed
Speaker 3: to be that way. I've always been told I'm too much.
Speaker 3: I've always been told that I'm too aggressive. And you
Speaker 3: can give them permission to then start expressing themselves as well.
Speaker 3: Whereas the other person, where they've become more reserved to
Speaker 3: a point where they're.
Speaker 2: Paralysis analysis or analysis by parass whatever it may.
Speaker 3: Be, you can actually say it's normal for you to
Speaker 3: consider things, but we actually need to get you out
Speaker 3: of that analysis paralysis and into some quick wins, into
Speaker 3: some action. And so same a different person, same trauma
Speaker 3: expresses differently through the biology. So biology is not everything.
Speaker 3: Biology is the filter and you apply the stress and
Speaker 3: then the output is filtered through the biology. And this
Speaker 3: is why if you know what that lens is, what
Speaker 3: the filter is, then you know how to navigate those
Speaker 3: other environmental areas as well. Does that make that make sense?
Speaker 3: That's a yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: What about what about here's my curve ball. You've got
Speaker 1: thirty people in a business meeting. They're in a big boardroom,
Speaker 1: big table. Half of them hate air conditioning, half of
Speaker 1: them love it, and the airs just pumping.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Perfect.
Speaker 3: So the one of the fastest ways of reducing stress
Speaker 3: is through awareness. So what happens to the cold people
Speaker 3: in that room is if they're unaware that air conditioning
Speaker 3: bothers them, they'll just be pissed off.
Speaker 2: And they won't know why.
Speaker 3: And whereas if you say, who hates air conditioning in
Speaker 3: this room, particularly if it's blasting you in the face,
Speaker 3: which it can be sometimes as a presenter, who hates
Speaker 3: air conditioning in the room, And you'll see these little
Speaker 3: hands go up and you go, just know that it
Speaker 3: is totally.
Speaker 2: Fine to be aggravated by air conditioning. Have you felt
Speaker 2: that before?
Speaker 3: And it's when you allow someone to be aware of
Speaker 3: their biology, it allows them them to transcend their response
Speaker 3: to that environmental queue. And the same thing goes for
Speaker 3: let's say that, oh, I know that I'm aggravated if
Speaker 3: I don't get food regularly. If you're unaware of that,
Speaker 3: which most children are, they're just angry because they haven't
Speaker 3: had food. But if you say, oh, it's because you're hungry,
Speaker 3: that's why you're angry.
Speaker 2: That awareness allows them to say.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm not angry, I'm just angry. Okay, I'll get
Speaker 3: that now. And by having greater self awareness, that's where
Speaker 3: you actually have a greater tolerance.
Speaker 2: That's where resilience comes in, and you know the yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean that's probably.
Speaker 3: The easiest way to understand it is if if you
Speaker 3: can call it out, if you can make it known,
Speaker 3: and if you can say, hey, if you're really cold
Speaker 3: and you're really annoyed, go grab a cardigan right now.
Speaker 2: It's probably one of the.
Speaker 3: Best pieces of advice you can give because why else
Speaker 3: would you say, Because there still is a physical.
Speaker 2: Strain, but it's lessened if you're aware of what that
Speaker 2: strain is.
Speaker 1: You had me until you said the word cardigan.
Speaker 3: But with that, it's normally it's normally females that are
Speaker 3: putting their hand up so that they love a CARDI
Speaker 3: yeah they.
Speaker 1: No, no, I love it, And I just think this
Speaker 1: is you know, it is so important that we that
Speaker 1: we understand that everybody's different, everybody you know, responds differently
Speaker 1: to the same and different stimuli, and that that we
Speaker 1: like trying to understand ourselves, our own behavior, our own
Speaker 1: response is our own you know that metacognitive Why do
Speaker 1: I think like this? Why am I trying to impress
Speaker 1: doctor cam? Now? Why do I feel intimidated? What is
Speaker 1: this about? Why am I you know whatever? Just that
Speaker 1: level of psychological, cognitive, emotional, and even body awareness by
Speaker 1: biological awareness, just to just go, ah, I that that
Speaker 1: is great, Like just what you said, Oh yeah, air
Speaker 1: conditioning pisses me off, or I'm the opposite. I've got
Speaker 1: an air conditioner about one meter above my head that's
Speaker 1: blowing cold air on me. Now I'm happy as a
Speaker 1: pig in shit. It's like my yeah, I can't if
Speaker 1: I'm really hot, It's one of the things. It's funny
Speaker 1: you mentioned this because me being hot, I'm that I
Speaker 1: would say the quality of my conversation, communication and focus
Speaker 1: goes down. I don't know twenty percent. So if I'm doing,
Speaker 1: you know, like we started recording at two o'clock, I
Speaker 1: come in. I literally put on the air at one
Speaker 1: fifty five. So I'll sit in a space. That's cool
Speaker 1: because I'm better. I just know that my body and
Speaker 1: my brain and my attention and my focus communication, and
Speaker 1: hopefully the end result for the listeners is better if
Speaker 1: the bloke who hosts the show is not thinking about
Speaker 1: how sweaty his ass is and how hot he is
Speaker 1: and how ruppy is.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, one hundred percent, one hundred percent, And it's
Speaker 3: so hard to understand sometimes another person's perspective on that.
Speaker 2: You know, you just think, oh, I'm cold, I'm hot.
Speaker 2: This is awful.
Speaker 3: Other people like perfect example, talking to my mum and dad.
Speaker 3: Dad like you loves the AC, like just just melts
Speaker 3: slowly in summer, and Mum is a very delicate little
Speaker 3: flower and she Dad goes, oh, we've got the AC
Speaker 3: on full blast, but we're melting a slow death.
Speaker 2: And Mum goes I'm fine, like she chirps up from
Speaker 2: the back. You know, I'm fine, And.
Speaker 3: It's just understand those differences are so real and probably
Speaker 3: one of the ways that I bring all of this
Speaker 3: together in my mind as well is that your mind,
Speaker 3: your mind and how you're perceiving these things is just
Speaker 3: a work bench of lots of different stuff that's coming
Speaker 3: into influence how you feel about that moment.
Speaker 2: And Michael A.
Speaker 3: Singer came up with this great quote saying, you are
Speaker 3: not the thoughts in your head, You're the person listening
Speaker 3: to your thoughts.
Speaker 2: And cold.
Speaker 3: Being given a signal of I'm cold is just another thought.
Speaker 3: Being given a signal of I'm hungry is another thought.
Speaker 3: Being given a signal of I haven't had enough sleep
Speaker 3: or I'm tired my body is tired, is just another
Speaker 3: It's another thing to acknowledge on the workbench and to
Speaker 3: your question before separating yourself from all of that data
Speaker 3: that you're collecting to say, oh, look, my body is
Speaker 3: actually my body is responding to that cold in an
Speaker 3: interesting way. That's interesting, what's actually happening. My brain is
Speaker 3: responding to Craig in a really interesting way. I'm trying
Speaker 3: to impress him and make sure I sound intelligent, all
Speaker 3: of those types of things. That's really I'm going to
Speaker 3: hold that out there. I'm trying to impress Craig. And
Speaker 3: then this other thing is like I've got whatever. And
Speaker 3: so it's amazing that when you are able to just
Speaker 3: see all of these inbound thoughts as things that are
Speaker 3: separate to you and things that you can interact with individually,
Speaker 3: it's obviously just an exercise in mindfulness. It's amazing what
Speaker 3: you can tolerate, what you can get through, and how
Speaker 3: much clearer you are as well.
Speaker 1: Did you ever read The Power of Now back in
Speaker 1: the day?
Speaker 3: Can Yeah, it's partly inspired by that. There's an Eka
Speaker 3: Toll and yeah, that's it's a perfect book for understanding that.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he like, I forget exactly. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it was like I read the book twenty years ago,
Speaker 1: so and I've read a lot since then, but what
Speaker 1: twenty five years ago? He basically says, you know, like,
Speaker 1: I'm not my thoughts, I'm not my feelings. I'm not this,
Speaker 1: I'm not that, you know, I'm not a body, I'm
Speaker 1: not a job, I'm not a height. And then he
Speaker 1: said I'm the awareness of everything I'm not. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm the awareness of everything I'm not. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's brilliant, But what does that mean? That
Speaker 1: was I've told this story before, but I read that
Speaker 1: book or I started reading that book. I don't know
Speaker 1: when I was pretty young, like when it first came out,
Speaker 1: which would i'd say be thirty years ago, maybe even
Speaker 1: a bit more, probably yeah, mid nineties. Maybe I thought
Speaker 1: it was just fucking mumbo jumbo. And then maybe I
Speaker 1: don't know, six or seven years ago I picked it up.
Speaker 1: I went, oh, how long is this in around? This
Speaker 1: is brilliant. That's right, it's like the same I'm different,
Speaker 1: it's the same, it's the same information, the same.
Speaker 3: How do these people, out of these people not get this?
Speaker 2: It's so clear?
Speaker 3: The I had another We actually did a meditation ext
Speaker 3: I was on the weekend in a similar way to
Speaker 3: that point, and that was listening for the silence between
Speaker 3: the sounds that you can hear. Wow, and it's it's
Speaker 3: the same thing. It's the of what you're not, it's
Speaker 3: the it's the everything that you can't perceive, and it's
Speaker 3: the that looking for that space brings you into that
Speaker 3: that that that sense of wherever you are at that
Speaker 3: higher level. It's it's a you can you meditate on
Speaker 3: that for hours and just just try and get there
Speaker 3: deeper on it.
Speaker 1: Love it And if if any of our listeners want
Speaker 1: to do an interesting little exercise, going to chat GPT
Speaker 1: and ask this question, is there evidence that the mind
Speaker 1: is exists? And see what it comes up with? Mate,
Speaker 1: You're awesome. Tell people how that can find you, follow you,
Speaker 1: connect with you and learn more about all you do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3: There's a I work for the Shay Group. We're a
Speaker 3: bigger conglorerate. We do a whole lot of things with
Speaker 3: health professionals, schools, corporate workplaces, gyms, relationships, a whole bunch
Speaker 3: of stuff. There's a website Shay dot Group, forward slash
Speaker 3: doctor Cam McDonald. I think I'll send you the link
Speaker 3: and that's pretty much got every bit of vertical of
Speaker 3: what we're doing. But we're leading the space in precision
Speaker 3: health and wellbeing, precision medicine. It's a very very exciting
Speaker 3: space right there, and lots of good things coming in
Speaker 3: the future for all of our healths.
Speaker 1: Mate, We're glad you're doing it. Because you're at the
Speaker 1: forefront and you're opening doors and people are following, and
Speaker 1: I love this stuff. I love all your stuff, like
Speaker 1: I love all your stuff, but I love the stuff
Speaker 1: that you're doing with schools and in the learning space
Speaker 1: because it's it's obviously super important. But yeah, well done you.
Speaker 1: We'll chat again.
Speaker 2: Thanks mate, Thanks having me, mate,