1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: This particular comment just got to the core of my 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: identity and it just didn't feel right. And that was 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: the first time I sort of didn't feel safe in 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: the locker room in the AFL environment. 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: Hey, girls, welcome back to Hotter Than Yesterday. We have 6 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: a special guest this week. And I didn't think I 7 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 2: would ever have an AFL player on my podcast after 8 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 2: my last relationship, but you'll soon see why this guy 9 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 2: is a special exception. Mitch Brown is the first openly 10 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: queer AFL player, and last year he bravely stepped into 11 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: his truth and owned his sexuality in one of the 12 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: most traditionally masculine spaces in Australia, Bey on Footy. Mitch 13 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: is redifying what courage, identity, and self acceptance can look 14 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 2: like for a whole new generation. This conversation is about 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: more than sport. It's about owning who you are and 16 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: having the courage to be yourself even when the whole 17 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 2: country is watching. This is one of the most special 18 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 2: interviews I've done and I hope you take away as 19 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 2: much from it as I did. 20 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 3: Mitch Brown, Welcome to Hotter than Yesterday. 21 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: How are you thanks for having me? Sam? Yeah, I'm good. 22 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: I'm good. It's been a it's been a couple of months. 23 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: It's been a big couple of months for me. 24 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just going to say, it's been a 25 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 3: huge year. 26 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: You have done a lot for AFL and yourself as 27 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: well coming out in public. Do you want to tell 28 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: the listeners a little bit about yourself, your background, give 29 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 2: us a little bit of the four one one about 30 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: who Mitch Brown is the. 31 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 1: Four one one? Jid. I it's really hard mine because 32 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: like when I was younger, I loved talking about myself. Yeah, 33 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: and it's like the thing I right now is I 34 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: get a bit thick with myself, Like I'm making this 35 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: conversation about me, and obviously over the last six months 36 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: or so, all since in August, since I came out 37 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: publicly about my sexuality, people want to people want to 38 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: know about me, So I'm kind of grappling. 39 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 3: With and then you feel like you're always talking about yourself. 40 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: This podcast is about you, so you're allowed to talk 41 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: about yourself? 42 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: Is it only talking about yourself? Who you are? So? 43 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: So okay, my name's Mitch Brown. I was the first 44 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: and you did a wonderful intro, so thank you for that. 45 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: The first openly bisexual AFL men's player pastor present, and 46 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: I grew up so that journey for me started in 47 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: August last year. But my sexuality is only one part 48 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: of me, one part of my story, one part of 49 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: who I am. I grew up in a country town 50 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: western Ballarat called bo Peep. How cute is that little 51 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: bo Peep? 52 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: So cute? 53 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: If you blink you'd miss it. I had two brothers, 54 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: one identical twin who also played AFL as well, Nath, 55 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: and I grew up there, had a really good childhood. 56 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: Like Sam, I often talk about some of the harmful 57 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: aspects of locker room chat, all those type of things, 58 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: but I've had a privileged life. I'm so grateful for 59 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: my upbringing, beautiful family. My twin brother Nath is amazing. 60 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, like it's and I always acknowledge my privilege 61 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: as well. 62 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, even now, that's amazing to hear as well, because 63 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: I think sometimes it's not that common to speak that 64 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: highly about your upbringing, and it always like something stems 65 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: from your upbringing and that might be who you are 66 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 2: today and all of those things, so that the way 67 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: you say that it's quite refreshing. 68 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: It like it I mean it is well. I think 69 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: we always focus, especially in these safe, these spaces, queer 70 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: spaces especially, we always tend to go towards the harmful 71 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: stories or we always this is the harmful conversations that 72 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: are going in the locker rooms. We never really particular 73 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: we never really talk about the amazing and healthy stories 74 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: that are happening in the locker room. 75 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 76 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: So, like I try to, even since coming out, I 77 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: try to keep it really positive around my experiences because 78 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: I do want to create a safer place for maybe 79 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: the next person to know that he that Mitch. I 80 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: don't even know his last name. He came out and 81 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: he seemed to be okay, So maybe. 82 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 3: He's happy, like he's enjoying life. He's not miserable like yeah, 83 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 3: which there's. 84 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: No lights to that. I am happy, I'm more confident, 85 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: feel stronger in my identity. But it has so I 86 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: do speak about my childhood and my journey really positively, 87 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean it hasn't been impacted by those 88 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: I guess, rigid stereotypes of manhood which we all know about, 89 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, the cliches. 90 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 3: Around you know matro mag Yeah, we don't. 91 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: Cry, we don't talk about a feelings, which for men, 92 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: we've come a long way in that area, Like we 93 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: you know, we've never talked about our feelings more than 94 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: we ever have. We've never felt okay more okay to cry. 95 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: But I think we get to a point now where 96 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: we can even dive deeper. 97 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, like we've come so far, but there's still such 98 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 2: a long way to go in like creating a safe 99 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 2: space for men, which I think. I have two older 100 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: brothers so and I also grew up in a boys 101 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 2: boarding school, so like I've been surrounded by boys my 102 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 2: whole life and like them speaking about their feelings is 103 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: a big thing in my family of like you don't 104 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: shy away from that and always. 105 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 3: Speak up and things like that. 106 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 2: But I think, especially in the athlete world and everything 107 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 2: like that, you always want to look brave, but sometimes 108 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 2: being brave means being vulnerable and being able to speak 109 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: about things that are tough. And I think that's like 110 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: the biggest message that especially needs to go on. Like 111 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 2: Australian football as well, Like I can relate to that 112 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: because the girls know that. A Yeah, I dated an 113 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 2: AFL player and I've heard it like myself, and I 114 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,799 Speaker 2: think there is so much work that needs to be done, 115 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 2: but for people that for you creating that space, safe 116 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: space for men and being like, you know what, guys, 117 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: I'm so happy. Like I'm probably happier now that I've 118 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 2: come to terms and I'm happy with who I am 119 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 2: and like it's a way more peaceful life because I 120 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: like who I am and I'm open with who I 121 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 2: am and I'm not shying away from that. 122 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 3: What was like the tipping point for you to come. 123 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 2: Out and say it publicly and be like, this is 124 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 2: who I am, So. 125 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: Sam for me, I've so I finished football in two 126 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, the end of the season, and then 127 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: it's been coming up to nearly ten years since I 128 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: finished so and I've came out last year, but prior 129 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: to that, it's sort of been a journey of what 130 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: maybe eight years since I finished football, a journey of 131 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: becoming more closer to being able to reveal myself, being 132 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: happy with who I am, and then going up in 133 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: I guess uncomfortable places of that version of myself and 134 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: my sexuality, especially out in the public. Ay. So, I've 135 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: my incredible partner Lou has been a huge catalyst in 136 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: creating a safe environment at home for me to bring 137 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: the best version of myself, bring me something that I've 138 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: been hiding for so long, so I can't thank her enough. 139 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: So I've been sort of out in my own community 140 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: that I've chosen to surround myself for the last number 141 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: of years. And it got to a point where I 142 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: would always be like, nah, no one wants to hear 143 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: from me, and I'd have friends and queer friends be like, 144 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: I reckon, you should say something, Mitch, Like you did 145 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: play for ten years although you were like a fringe player, 146 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: it might mean something to someone. 147 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 3: And did you. 148 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 2: Trust that, Like you're obviously like your immediate close friends 149 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 2: and everything like that, did you trust them not to 150 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: go out to the public themselves and say anything? 151 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: So I chose so halfway through my career playing football professionally, 152 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: I chose that I wouldn't let football define who I am, 153 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: and I let Mitch define who I am as the 154 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: human not the footballer. So once I transition out of 155 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: the game, and this is part of that, I guess 156 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: that journey as up until the moment I felt confident 157 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: enough to come out publicly and choose to do it, 158 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: is Yeah, like I forgot that I was a footballer, 159 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: and I connected with who I am and I wasn't 160 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: because I was surrounding myself with safe people and people 161 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: that wouldn't judge and would even just as simple as 162 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: really inclusive and safe language in communication and things around 163 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: going to AFLW games, and just like the inclusive nature 164 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: of my environments helped me slip into who I was 165 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: who I am sorry, yeah, and that was you know, 166 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: a bisexual man. Yeah, and without even thinking about being 167 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: hidden or maybe if this gets out or whatever, because 168 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: I just was like forgotten that I was a football Yeah, 169 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: like that was. 170 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 3: My past life and that's not who I no longer am. 171 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 172 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it was this I slipped into that, but 173 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: I would always be like, nah, I don't have a 174 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,599 Speaker 1: place to speak. I don't have a place to have 175 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: an impact to speak publicly. And it got to a 176 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: point where over the last twelve months there was five 177 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: to seven homophobic incidents on field that we know about, right, 178 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: and it was just it was like the old cliche 179 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: of you know, one event, it's like okay, yeah, all right, 180 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: people can learn from that, but when it becomes a 181 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: pattern of behavior, yeah, And that showed me it was 182 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: a pattern in the AFL of homophobic actions and behaviors 183 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: over the last twelve months. But it's been a pattern 184 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: of behavior for a century for you, for so long 185 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: since I've got started. And I got to a point 186 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: where I was like, I'm going to stuff this. I'm 187 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: going to speak out Like this is like, you know what, 188 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty plus years or so, no one's 189 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: being proud enough to speak out publicly about their sexuality 190 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: in a queer manner. And I was like, you know what, 191 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: I don't care what people think. I don't care if 192 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: people think or that I can't even remember that I 193 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: played football. I'm going to do this. I'm going to 194 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: stand up and hopefully it might mean something to one person. 195 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: I've always maintained that as long as long as it 196 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: meant something to one person me speaking up, I was 197 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: always going to be okay with that. So I decided 198 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: to do it. 199 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 3: How did you do it? 200 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: Because I actually wasn't here. I was living in London 201 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 2: at the time, so I remember getting wind of it, 202 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: but I, yeah, I. 203 00:10:58,360 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 3: Don't, I wasn't in that. 204 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: I feel like if I was in Melbourne, you would have, 205 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 2: with all due respect, like. 206 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 3: You would have heard the talk, it would have been 207 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 3: the talk of the conversation obviously because you came out in. 208 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: It was August August twenty seventh. 209 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's like prime football time. 210 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: In Melbourne, just before the finals. 211 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 3: So yeah, well how did you go? What did you do? 212 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: So, Lou, my partner and I were actually in Italy. 213 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 2: Okay, so you're like, well, fuck this, we're not actually 214 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: being involvement, will do it. 215 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 3: We won't be here. 216 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: We did the interview in Melbourne. But you know, when 217 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: you're like your listeners will know this too. You know, 218 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: when you just you get away on holidays or you 219 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: just get some that sense of separation. Yeah, from like 220 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: whether it's your relationship or your work live the impact 221 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 1: isn't yeah, and like even if it is overseas to 222 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: a different culture, you just feel like you're detached. You 223 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: have this space to go. I can you know, I 224 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: can be anyone, I can do anything. And you know, 225 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: it's like off the time where most people come and 226 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: come back from their holidays and quit their jobs or 227 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: their relationship. Because you get that separation, you get time 228 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: to think. And that happened to us and I remember 229 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 1: when this happened. We were south of Italy and this 230 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: beautiful beach. 231 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 2: It's always a beautiful beach, big life. 232 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: We were drinking our second What's I'm so bad? 233 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 3: We're in Italy. 234 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: Come on, I couldn't even get the pronunciation of a 235 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: proto right for I didn't even say that right. 236 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,599 Speaker 3: Now from I don't know Australia. 237 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: So we and like you get this was nearly the 238 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: end of our trip and we're just like, like, we 239 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: feel so good. 240 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 3: Did you know it was going to come out and 241 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 3: publish that stage? 242 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: This is about the decision to do. 243 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 3: To do it? Okay? 244 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, We're sitting there and Lou was scrolling on a 245 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: phone and this video popped up of Sam and m 246 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: Gillespie of the Daily Oz talking about this one hundred 247 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: and thirty years that no one has come out publicly. 248 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: And I remember his words. He said he didn't just 249 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: say a gay player, he said gay or bisexual, And 250 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: it kind of just related to my like, that's my 251 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: identity and for like, and we can talk about this 252 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: a bit later about the bisexual sexuality in that section 253 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: of the queer community. It just really connected with me. 254 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: And that's the moment I was like, man went into 255 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: the slid into the DMS. 256 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's one too many aparols or 257 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: I am this man. 258 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: I highly recommend go over and to Italy if you 259 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: need to, If it doesn't matter if you need to 260 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: come out or anything, if you need something to like 261 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: this giant leap of faith, go to Italy and get 262 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: yourself an apparol because you'll do some great things. But 263 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: slid into the DMS. 264 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 2: And so you slid into Sam and you're like, I yeah, 265 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: and like connected the story or whatever the video we saw. 266 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: I was like, Hey, I'm Mitch Brown, I played for 267 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: ten years for the West Coast Eagulls and I'm a 268 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: bisexual man. 269 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 3: And that just gave me shivers. 270 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: Yeah wow, and you know what talking about shivers like. 271 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: And then it kind of went from there, and then 272 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: we went home and did the interview, but talking about 273 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: the shivers saying I said that exact same thing for 274 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: the first time with the interview, the original interview that 275 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: went out to public, that's pretty much the first time. 276 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: The first thing I said was, Hey, I'm miss Brown 277 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: and I'm a bisexual man and I played a and I. 278 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: Think the conversation about that and the whole conversation like 279 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: around it is like, as a bisexual man, you it's 280 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: again like you said before, it's not who you are 281 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 2: or like and everything like that, So like it's weird 282 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: this whole conversation. My best friend is bisexual. 283 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 3: You're gay? I love gays. 284 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, my I'm surrounded by a lot of people 285 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: in the in the queer community, and it is a 286 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 2: very big conversation about like the fact that the concept 287 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: about coming out and saying that it's like who you 288 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: identify with. 289 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: It's like I didn't walk into my parents' room and 290 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 3: go hi, guys, just want to let you know I 291 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 3: still like man Like, it's not it's so weird, like 292 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 3: why it's a thing. 293 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great take, Sam, because like and I 294 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: still get it every day. Is like when people want 295 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: to talk about my journey and my I guess all 296 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: my sexuality and what I'm attracted to and what I'm 297 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: not or whatever, and they always go to the bedroom conversation. 298 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: They want to knows that, Like the even my partner 299 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: lose she gets the conversation that gets the questions from 300 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: strangers going, I want to know about my sex life. Yeah, 301 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: it always goes into the field about sex. 302 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's not about that majority of the time. 303 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And it's like the concept of you know, 304 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: for me being in a straight relationship who's a woman, 305 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: and people just can't get their head around how it 306 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: works for us or works for me or am I 307 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: sleeping with men on the slide? It was none of 308 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: your business. Yeah, And we tend to go into that 309 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: world and coming out it's so yeah, it's really hardcore 310 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: and that it's like, well, yeah, and you know most people, 311 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: most straight people don't have to talk to their parents 312 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: about their sex life. 313 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 314 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: And you know, I remember when I told my momum 315 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: and dad are lovely. They're amazing, quite funny, but they 316 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: grow up in that generation. 317 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, our parents is like it was a weird thing. 318 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: That's like you sweet to your dad and they're like, 319 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: it is it's the first thing that people think of. 320 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: But I'm so blessed that I've been surrounded by people 321 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: of the queer community for so long, So I like 322 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: with that you get you speak to them about it, 323 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 2: and you talk to them about it and you want 324 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: to understand and everything like that. But a lot of 325 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 2: the time it is and I'm not speaking for you 326 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: guys obviously all like that community. But it's just about 327 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 2: human connection. It's about just getting along with people and 328 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: being a person and falling in love with that person 329 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 2: and matter the gender, and like that's what I think 330 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 2: a lot of people don't understand. And it's like, it 331 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 2: actually doesn't have to be about sex and who I 332 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: like to have sex with, and it's a connection and 333 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 2: correct me if I'm wrong. 334 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: But no, no, no, this gets on the podcast because this 335 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: is this is like but that's the that's so well 336 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: put zam. It's it's you know, that's so refreshing because 337 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, people ask Lou, like what what do you 338 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: love most about you know, dating or being with a 339 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: bisexual guy? And you know a lot of people again 340 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: go into more of that sexual nature, but it is 341 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: And I had the same conversation with another I last 342 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: week and it's like, well, for people that you know, ah, 343 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: have this sense of bisexual or queer, have this closer connection, 344 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: I think, a closer connection to their feelings and more 345 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: confident in you know, expressing everything about them. And then 346 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: that's just the quality that all humans, you know, is 347 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: it attractive about all humans? It's been able to you know, 348 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: know your feelings and not fear them, you know, you know, 349 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: and that's how like, you know, people ask me again, 350 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: it's like when did you start to know that you 351 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: were attracted to men? And and it's just like I 352 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: had these feelings for all genders and both and and 353 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: it's like the richest stereotypes of what I of manhood, 354 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: what I grew up in, and they still they still 355 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: challenged me today as well, like you, especially in those 356 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: masculine environments like the AFL for rooms and and rugby 357 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: league and all those around the country. It's it's it's crazy. 358 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 2: And were there ever rumors again going back to like 359 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: I dated an AFL player and with that you go 360 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 2: to events and you're around a lot of AFL people 361 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 2: and the communication and the way that they speak. 362 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 3: I think it's quite a known thing in Australia that 363 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 3: it's well. 364 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're the only person that's come out as a 365 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 2: bisexual male in the AFL industry because the language that 366 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: they use and the way that they talk is disgusting. 367 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 2: There's no other way to say it than the locker 368 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 2: room chats and the way that that stuff goes around 369 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: and in the club it's it's also a contact sport, 370 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 2: so then it's like, you don't want to be ostracized 371 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 2: from that and all of that stuff. 372 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 3: When you had your. 373 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 2: Career in AFL, were there ever rumors or chat that 374 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 2: you were bisexual or was it after your career that 375 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 2: you kind of came into who you were? 376 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, for starters, there was never rumors about myself. I 377 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: was really good at hiding. Yeah, those sort of things 378 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: I bought into. I lied to myself and then I 379 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: started believing my life, so it sort of became my truth. 380 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: I doubled down on my straightness. Yeah, it's yeah. And 381 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: there was obviously, like it's not just people who are 382 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: a queer, the rumors of like especially it was a 383 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: huge topic in the IFN and it would rear its 384 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: head in the media probably once a year. It's like, oh, 385 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: who's who's going to be the first there? And we'd 386 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: often talk about it in the locker rooms, and you know, again, 387 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: people would talk about it in a you know, have 388 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: it as a punchline of a joke, yes, and it 389 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: would start to delve into all, you know, what happens 390 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: if it's one of us, who is it? And you know, 391 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,479 Speaker 1: we and I like I bought into some of these 392 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: homophobe chat as well, like yeah, we'd talk about behind 393 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: players back, so like, oh, who do we think it's 394 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: probably it's probably that person out of anyone, So really 395 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: harmful conversations, and it got to a point where I, 396 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: you know, it got really harmful on and it started 397 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: to impact. And that's when it's like this wall that 398 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: I put up around protecting my identity, this straightness I 399 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: put up, this I guess hyper masculine identity. This particular 400 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: comment just penetrated that and got to the core of 401 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: my identity and it just didn't fit, didn't feel right. 402 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: And that was the first time I sort of didn't 403 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: feel safe in the locker room in the AFL environment. 404 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: And the comment that I heard was in the locker room, 405 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: and it was if someone that was it was by 406 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: two players, if someone that was gay in our team, 407 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: I would rather have I'd rather be locked up in 408 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: a cage of lines and have a shower with them, 409 00:21:58,359 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 1: because we all showered. 410 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 3: Your shower. 411 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: You imagine, can you imagine listening to that and you're 412 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: trying to like you've got your own denial, you know 413 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: that you're in your own homophobe, your internal battle within yourself. 414 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 2: It's like it's like you're in a monologue, like you'd 415 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 2: just be like you couldn't be able to handle it, and. 416 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 1: You're just like and then hearing that and it's just 417 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: like and then from from friends, from people that you 418 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: know you've known every day, and that's like, that's my 419 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 1: story and that's my journey, and you know, like they're 420 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: good men, they're good men. But this is what happens 421 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: when there is lack of representation or there's lack of 422 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: awareness or empathy, especially in men's group chats and hanging 423 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: out the pub or whatever it's. You know, no one's 424 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: out in your endship group as mates. Well, I am 425 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: freely okay to talk about this. You know, have a 426 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: bit of joke, bit of banter, as we say, in 427 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: these environments without we think we know our mates, we 428 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: actually do. We're like this country full of we love 429 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: mateship and we know our mates. But you can guarantee 430 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: there is still things and it's not just about your sexuality, 431 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: but there is things in each and every one of 432 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: us that we're hiding that you know, these random comments 433 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: and banter can really have harmful effect on your best friends. Yes, 434 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 1: and you don't even know it. 435 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 3: Yes. 436 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: And I think it's like something that I definitely notice 437 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: around men and conversations that you have with men at 438 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 2: like the pub and everything like that. With like a 439 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 2: group of people, there's a lot of First of all, 440 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 2: it's internalized homophobia, whether you like to admit it or not. 441 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: And then they try to relate again that my best friend, 442 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 2: I hang around him all the time, so being with 443 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: him you get to hear it, and you hear it 444 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 2: a lot. And then when you're then you're not around 445 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,479 Speaker 2: him and you do hang out with your straight males, 446 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 2: they do have a lot of internalized homophobia to say 447 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: in comment about my mate, and I'm like, that's my friend, Like, 448 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 2: don't speak about it like that. You wouldn't say it 449 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 2: to his face, so don't go and say it behind 450 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 2: his back, like you're saying it right to my face. 451 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 3: And I find. 452 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 2: The comments that they say is more you're trying to 453 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 2: prove to yourself things and you're trying to say something, 454 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 2: but it's like no one asked, no one asks you 455 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 2: to say that. You don't have to prove to me 456 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 2: that you aren't gay, Like it's okay like, I don't 457 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 2: think you're gay, and I'd like, I didn't ask if 458 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: you were straight either, like those things. Then it's almost 459 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: then it's so homophobic that it's like, what are you 460 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 2: trying to prove? What are you trying to say? Why 461 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 2: are you why are you behaving like that? No one asked, 462 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 2: No one is doing that. But then when there's a 463 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 2: bunch of men together, it's like, if you don't agree 464 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: with that and you don't give into that, and you're 465 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 2: five on one, you're not going to sit there and 466 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 2: go boys enough, because then they're going to go, well, 467 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 2: are you gay? 468 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 3: And it's like, no, I don't, and like. 469 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 2: That, it's just a conversation, and like yeah, the mateeship 470 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 2: and everything that like fuels these conversations over and over again, 471 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 2: and everyone thinks it's lighthearted, but as you said, you 472 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 2: don't actually know your mate, And then like you don't 473 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 2: know what they're going through. They could have all of 474 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 2: this stuff going on up in their head that makes 475 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 2: them feel like they're never going to be comfortable to 476 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:28,239 Speaker 2: speak out about it. 477 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: I think there's you know, for your listeners and the 478 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: girls that do have boyfriends or men in their life, 479 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: it's one to really ask, you know, are you what 480 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: are you as a bystander in these sort of behaviors? Yeah, 481 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: when you hear these things, what do you do? Do 482 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: you say silent? It's a really good one for your 483 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: listeners to ask the men in their life, like do 484 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: you bring your friends in and you know, don't call 485 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: them out? Call them in that same and have a 486 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: conversation around Hey, you know mate, that's it's probably not 487 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: the best you know language. We don't do that here? 488 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: Do they do that? Do men in their lives? Men 489 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: in your life do that? You know, there's a huge 490 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: portion of good men. It's like what is good men? 491 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: Good men that you know we'll sit at the pub, 492 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: we'll sit around their family table and will know that 493 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: a certain comment by one another is not okay. And 494 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: it could be a comment about women's football, could be 495 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: a comment about you know, someone that's doing amazing things 496 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: like yourself online and and what do you do do 497 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: you do you stand by and stay silent? And there's 498 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: a lot of good men that are staying silent at 499 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: the moment. So you know, we can work on this 500 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: harmful end of the spectrum of harmful men that are 501 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: you know, really it's really hateful, and we can we 502 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: can put our time and energy on that, but there's 503 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: this huge cohort of really good men that are saying nothing. Yeah, 504 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,479 Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of your listeners will have 505 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: those kind. 506 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 3: Of men in their lives completely. 507 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: So it's like the most simple thing you can do 508 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: is for that person is to at least say something, 509 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: because as you said before, Sam, it's like, and I've 510 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 1: been in this position myself, like I have where you know, 511 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: you need to call someone out or you know, just 512 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: mention that hey that's not okay, but you just fear 513 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: the repercussions of you doing that. You know, are they 514 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: going to call you gay? Are they going to call 515 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: you a woos or whatever? And it's you know, the 516 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: one thing the advice that I would give for you know, 517 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: that person that has that fear, the men and women 518 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: that do have that fear of calling people out or 519 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: calling them in around halfful language, is you know, who 520 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: are you ultimately doing it for? Yeah, yeah, you're doing 521 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: it for the women in your life. You're doing it 522 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: for the children in your life. You're not necessarily doing 523 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: for your mate. You're doing it for your mates, the 524 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: women and children that's in your mate's life. Yeah, not 525 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,959 Speaker 1: particularly for them. So it's a good one to like 526 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: just reaffirm that, you know, as long as if you 527 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: do have those fears. But the reason why, you know, 528 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: to say something rather than stay silent. 529 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And once you had obviously it came out to 530 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 2: the media and you did the interview and everything, tell 531 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: us how the feeling of that you knew that it 532 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 2: was going to come out. First of all, what did 533 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 2: you think that the reaction would be by the media, 534 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 2: And then. 535 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 3: What was was it different? Was it the same? How 536 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 3: did it go for you? 537 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I firstly my mindset was just to get 538 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: to the interview, do the interview, say those words I'm bisexual, 539 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: like on record, and get it out there. And you know, 540 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: as I said, in the locker rooms when I did play, 541 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: we used to talk about the reaction of when someone 542 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: did come out. So I didn't honestly like, I didn't 543 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: think about it that. I was just like, let's just 544 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: keep this one process, let's just say it, and let's 545 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: get on with it. And then I said it, and 546 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: then it took twenty four hours for it to basically 547 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,479 Speaker 1: go live. There was a long day turn around as 548 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: a quick turn around. Yeah, that's actually. 549 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 3: Probably better than having there for a week. 550 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. For that twenty four hours, it was like, okay, 551 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: now we kind of prepare for this reaction, and to 552 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: be honest, because you know, I didn't see myself as 553 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: a really popular footballer or whatever. I didn't think it 554 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: was going to be as big as it was or 555 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: as I guess meaningful it was. It was. It was great, 556 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: Like the the reaction was. It was so positive. And remember, 557 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: I do want to like really highlight the you know, 558 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: He's been a great experience for me, and I again 559 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: knowledge acknowledging my privilege that I know that coming out 560 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: is not always a great experience for a lot of people, 561 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: so I do acknowledge that. But for me it was 562 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: there was so much love and support. 563 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 3: Well it literally not to your own help. 564 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: It blew up that I got wind of it and 565 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 2: I was I was on the other side of the world. 566 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: So like the impact that it had and the way 567 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 2: that it got people talking. I don't know if that 568 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 2: was your goal, but it hit and it hit well. 569 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: You know, and I like there's of course there's moments 570 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: of hate and things and like, but like the very 571 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: next The messages that meant the most, like I had 572 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: like it was crazy, But the messages the next day 573 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: after the next day went live that meant the most 574 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: was from school teachers. 575 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 3: Wow okay, And because. 576 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: They sent me a message, whether it was through the 577 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: d MS or via text, about sharing their experiences of 578 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: the reaction and the hallway chats, the classroom chats that 579 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: young boys at their schools were having because of this announcement. Yeah, 580 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,479 Speaker 1: positive conversations around sexuality and quitness, which you know, just 581 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: meant the world to me. And you know, this has 582 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: touched a lot of different types of groups and demographics 583 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: and things. But like even most recently, what really hit 584 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: home to me. I went, I went and laughing like 585 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: this because it's I had so much fun. I went 586 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: to Beyond Valley Yeah music festival. I had a really 587 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: good time. I was probably the oldest there, but it 588 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: was a group so good And like, I know, I 589 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: come up on screen every now and again heaps the 590 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: last couple of months, so I thought I'd get people 591 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: like just saying hi whatever, and like without a doubt, 592 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: like this is not even not even a competition. That 593 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: the biggest demographic that came and just wanted to share 594 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: what it meant to them and what it meant to 595 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: their mates and their community. Were young boys, young men. Wow, 596 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: And I've never had that before, and it just made 597 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: me like it just really hit home that you like, 598 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: this is what it was for. Yeah, you know these men, 599 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: these young men, because I've seen it time and time 600 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: again that these beautiful young men growing up in safe places, 601 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: safe places, whether they're queer or straight, especially the straight men, 602 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: they do get to this point where, you know, the 603 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: rigid stereotypes of what it meant to be a man. 604 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 3: Like overrides your values. 605 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. And it was just like I wanted to like 606 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: really wrap my arms around those people because I know that, 607 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, whether this time in their life, whether they 608 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: go into a footy club or you know, workplace, when 609 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: those you know, hyper masculine stereotypes really show, it's it's 610 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: good and ugly self. Yeah, that they keep on with 611 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: these strong values of yeah, inclusivity and safety for all. 612 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: And it was just so it was really cool. 613 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 614 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 2: Well, I think like I can relate in the way 615 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 2: of like when you when you post yourself online, like 616 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 2: you come from a vulnerable perspective and then. 617 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 3: You don't know how it's going to be yeah delivered 618 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 3: or received. 619 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 2: Or anything like that. But then and you're like, oh, 620 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: was that even worth it? Or like what is that 621 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 2: going to do? But then the people that do come 622 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: out and go like thank you for being honest. So 623 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 2: it made me be able to speak to my mum 624 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 2: about this or go get help and stuff like that. 625 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 3: You like, that was the reason I did that. 626 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 2: That was the reason I put myself online and be 627 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 2: vulnerable to thousands of people. And I think what you're 628 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 2: doing for Australian men, especially My dad's a deputy principal 629 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 2: at a private boys school and he speaks about this 630 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 2: stuff all the time. Like I think it's not even 631 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 2: about and I'm not trying to like dismiss you're what 632 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 2: you've done and everything for the media, but like it's 633 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 2: not even about you being bisexual. It's a major topic 634 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 2: of like speaking about how men speak and all of 635 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 2: that stuff that I think is the message that you're 636 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 2: really putting out there, and it's really a conversation that 637 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 2: we all should be having way more of the communication 638 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 2: that how men speak and like, yeah, your sexuality, Okay, 639 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 2: that might have been the start, but like the way 640 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 2: that you're speaking, the way that you've come on this 641 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 2: podcast and speak about it, there's so much more about 642 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 2: just the way that men need to be communicating and 643 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 2: the change that we need to be doing to make 644 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 2: women feel safer, people of the queer community, and just 645 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 2: like yeah, locker room chat, like it's disgusting, and I 646 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,919 Speaker 2: think what you've done and what you did last year 647 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 2: is very inspiring for so many people, and not even 648 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 2: if you are queer or anything like that, Like the 649 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 2: job that you have done is insane. So thank you 650 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 2: as a young woman as well, like. 651 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks, that's again like it that's music to what 652 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: you is because this is not just about queer spaces. 653 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: I don't want to You've said it beautifully. I don't 654 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: really reiterate what you just said. But for me, creating 655 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: safer environments, especially men creating safer environments, you know, it's 656 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: going to create a more safer place to be ourselves, 657 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: a better place around for everyone, not just queer people. 658 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,720 Speaker 1: And I think men, you know, we have a huge 659 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: part to play with that because we're creating most of 660 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: these issues and these problems. It's you know, men and 661 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: we shy away from acknowledging that it's like we're we 662 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: make up excuses or our ego comes into it to 663 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: go here. I know, you know that's saying not all men, 664 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: but there is some some form of attractive attractiveness, leadership, 665 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: strength in acknowledging that, hey, I'm contributing to this harmful 666 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: behaviors and I want to do better for the women 667 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: and children and others in my life. Yeah, that's that's sexy. 668 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: That's strong, that's leadership, and. 669 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 2: For even straight men, like for women, that is what 670 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 2: like a man wants, like I don't want like a 671 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 2: man who's like, oh ye, shut like all respectfully, like 672 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 2: shut up. Well, you're doing amazing things. Thank you Mitch 673 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 2: so much for coming on today's episode. What's on the 674 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 2: cards for you this year? 675 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 3: What are you going to be doing? 676 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: So there's lu and I my partner. We're doing some 677 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: really cool projects together this year, and a lot are 678 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: in these spaces around respectful relationships between men and women 679 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: and all types and family situations. So you know, it's 680 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: part of it is keep having fun because you know, 681 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: I've been hiding myself from these space queer spaces, and 682 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: they're the best places in the world. 683 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 3: You know, so you love. 684 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: Like, don't worry. I'm going to be doing a lot 685 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: of advocating, a lot of hard work, but I'm also 686 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: going to have some fun. 687 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 3: So yeah, sure my cards for this, Yeah for sure. Well, 688 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 3: thank you so much for coming on. 689 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 2: And yeah, make sure you guys check out Mitch on 690 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 2: socials and he's partner Loop. 691 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 3: You speak so well about your partner it makes me 692 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 3: so happy. But that's so kind. Yeah. Well, thank you 693 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 3: guys so much, and I'll see you guys next week. Bye.