WEBVTT - Part 1: Victoria’s historic treaty 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:04.320 This nation. Leading bill and the treaty process as a whole, 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:07.640 shows what we can achieve when we listen to first 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.040 peoples and work together for better outcomes. 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.720 When Victorian Premier Justin to Allen introduced Australia's first ever 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.439 treaty to Parliament, she said it would pave the way 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.759 for a formal apology, the introduction of Aboriginal truth telling 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.720 into the school curriculum, and offer a better future for 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:24.239 Indigenous Australians in the state. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.080 It honors and affirms a special connection the First Peoples 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.960 have to country, this place now known as Victoria, which 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.640 we all call home. It reckons with the wrongs of 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.960 the past and sets a new course, guided by truth, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:40.159 to a better future. 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:42.600 The treaty is the culmination of almost a decade of 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.520 work establishing the First People's Assembly, who led the negotiations 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.280 and delivers on voice, treaty and truth, the three pillars 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.400 of the Ullerus Statement from the heart, making Victoria the 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.240 first state in the country to achieve this. Now that 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.560 treaty is in its next phase. This week we'll have 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:02.640 the results of the election of who will sit in 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.320 the First People's Assembly, and tomorrow the process of setting 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:08.959 up the delegation that will actually decide what treaty looks 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:15.480 like in the real world. Begins I'm Daniel James and 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:19.560 you're listening to seven am Today. We're bringing you a 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.800 two part episode from last year where Ruby Jones speaks 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.280 with co chairs the First People's Assembly, Nagara Murray and 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.560 ruben Burg on what they hope Victoria's treaty will deliver 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:38.119 and how its success will be measured. It's Sunday, April 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:42.360 twenty sixth. This episode first aired in September twenty twenty five. 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.680 Niagara, Ruben thank you so much for joining me to 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:50.520 be Would you mind just introducing yourself? 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.920 Yeah, hello, Nagara Murray, whereby one but you are you 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:57.600 wander jar Jamarung and de Royal Woman and elect a 0:01:57.600 --> 0:01:59.720 co chair of the First People's Assembly. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.200 Rubenberg Proud benigs Maraman and also one of the co 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.600 chairs of the First People to send me of Victoria. 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.200 Well, welcome to ma'am. Thank you so much for coming 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.880 on the show. The first Treaty with the first peoples 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.440 of this country has just become a reality. It's been 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:15.919 a long road to get here. So to begin to 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:17.400 tell me how you're both feeling. 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.440 Yeah, I'm feeling good. The historic day for all of 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.960 us with the introduction of the statewide Treaty Bill in 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.240 the Parliament. It was a day of emotions and pride 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:28.919 and reflection. 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.800 Treaty will be a source of pride for all Victorians, 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:37.680 representative of a proudly diverse and multicultural state which values 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:41.800 its history and all of its people, because this is 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:46.920 not about taking anything away from anyone. It's about practical 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:51.880 changes to do things better together. I am proud to 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.560 support this next step in treaty. I am proud that 0:02:55.639 --> 0:03:01.519 together we are improving people's lives and giving everyone a 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:05.240 better future. I commend the bill to the House. 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.440 We're just really excited to be in this position in Victoria. 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:16.960 And it's been a lot of hard work over the 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.880 last six years in particular, but nearly a decade of 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.880 preparatory work. And yeah, we're in a really strong position 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:27.200 as we work towards the very first treaty of this country. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.400 Yes, as Nagara said, it's been a very long journey 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.560 to get us here, across six years of traveling around 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.680 the whole state, talking with all of our community in 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.200 every corner of the state, and now to get to 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.080 this point where it's about to become a reality to 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.920 now then think forward to let's get the action done. 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.360 Let's start getting things done rather than having to talk 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:48.960 about treat now it can actually activate it. 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.840 And obviously I want to talk more about what it 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:53.840 all means, but you both mentioned it's been a long 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.560 road to get here of the last decade, so can 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.000 you just tell me about some of the kind of 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.680 key points and then to goiations between the Assembly and 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:03.000 the Victorian government. 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.440 The first part of the negotiations when we started as 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.800 an Assembly was really to work out what treaty would 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.600 look like actually here in this state, because there's lots 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.000 of different models you can go down for treaty making, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.599 and very early on we made I think a really 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.919 important decision, an agreement with the state that we'd tackle 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.840 this as a hybrid model. So we're looking at both 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.400 statewide treaties, which is the first part of which has 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.520 gone into the legislation as part of the bill, and 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:31.719 then there's also traditional loan and treaties that are happening 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:33.880 in parallel. And so that was I think a really 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.200 key first part of this process to say we're going 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.400 to have both and that drew from different models across 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.239 the globe, and then as we started talking more about 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.680 the first State White Treaty to say that what we 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:46.919 wanted to do is set things up for success and 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.040 for future conversations, that if we're going to have further 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.920 negotiations and further conversations, we need to have a really 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:57.080 strong democratic, weally elected, tradition loaner led body that can 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.960 intersect with government really powerful ways so we can add 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.360 for better outcomes and then also progress future treaty making. 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.760 So tell me then, I guess about the practicalities of that. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.159 What is the purpose of the treaty, What does it 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:10.560 look like for us? 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:15.159 The treaty will really be about the relationships and the 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.719 resetting of those relationships between first peoples and the state. 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.200 As Ruben said, there'll be many treaties. We've got the 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.440 hybrid approach of the statewide treaty covers all the state 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:30.039 wide matters and addresses our affairs within health and housing, education, 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.919 and justice, sports. There'll be a number of treaties in 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:38.680 the next iteration of the statewide treaty, and then the 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.279 trite owner treaties will relate to the business of those 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:46.279 true owners on their country and their aspirations within their 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.120 own context. But this is the first modern treaty in 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.480 over twenty years, we've looked internationally to all the different 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:58.280 examples of treaty making in other countries with indigenous peoples, 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.440 and it is the first treaty. We can only do 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.440 so much in this one and then we will pass 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.560 the button to the next iteration of the Assembly. But 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.680 it encapsulates all our aspirations, all our demands and asks 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:12.520 that we've been fighting for for a long time and 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.160 putting them into practice. And there's a lot of tangible 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.320 outcomes that will happen through the first state wide treaty. 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.640 But that structural reform is really what we're seeking around 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.360 how we will govern into the future when it comes 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:24.560 to aboriginal affairs. 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.440 And just tell me a bit more about that structural reform, 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.040 the new iteration of the First People's Assembly. What does 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:30.479 it look like. 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.720 Yeah, so this is the transformation of the Assembly as 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.360 it is now into this future body, and it sits 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.440 within this space referred to as galilis, and that's the 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.560 kind of overarching landscape or tree making. So within Gallanglas 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:45.919 will still be in the First People's Assembly of Victoria 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.880 as the democratically elected body, and that's the body that 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.240 we'll be able to talk directly to Parliament, to address 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.840 Parliament once a year, to meet with Cabinet, to meet 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:57.599 with ministers, to have relationships with departments about how when 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.560 government's developing policies that might affect peoples, how they intersect 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.880 and engage with the expertise of first peoples. Also within 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.280 that space of Gallungwai will be the Nin mah Nanawara, 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.520 which is their accountability mechanism, and this is something that's 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.360 very clearly drawn from the work of the Productivity Commission. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:15.080 Last year. 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:16.320 They did a big review. 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:19.239 Onto closing the gap and what needed to be changed 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.160 to actually see some closing of those gaps, and a 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.440 key thing they identified was there's not a first people's 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.040 led body that's actually monitoring the government to see how 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.880 are they performing and giving them recommendations about what to improve, 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.800 and so that's what we're creating through Nin mah Nianiawara. 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.360 Another component of the Galluwai will be the ongoing truth 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.960 coming through Tolkuna, and so that will ensure that the 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.400 powerful work that happened through the truth calling process here 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.040 in Victoria through yr Rook will be able to be continued. 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.880 And there's an ongoing role for place based truth calling 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.360 and to ensure that all Victorians can better understand the 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.520 history of First Peoples from a first people's perspective. 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.960 And so, as you mentioned, their didn't go in while 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.320 is this access to government? So there's this power to 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:08.440 make representations to cabinet, to ministers, to various departments, to 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.360 both houses of Parliament. So tell me how you imagine 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.680 that access being used. What's going to be advocated for? 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.960 Yeah, So really at this stage it's about a process 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.200 and the types of things we want to advocate for. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.760 Is that's the next conversation to talk with our community. 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:25.080 It's not just going to be whoever the coaches are 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:26.960 deciding that this is what they want to talk about. 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.680 There are really strong processes in the legislation and in 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:32.800 our own internal processes to make sure we're hearing directly 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.199 from all parts of the state about what's important and 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.680 feeding that in. And we do have the powerful work 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.240 of your book of four years of our people coming 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.800 in and giving evidence to show what also needs to change. 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.440 So that'd be a really key roadmap of the type 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.040 of things we're going to be advocating for and the 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.360 future body can advocate for when we do have that 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:50.720 greater access to government. 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.320 And there is a proviso that nothing in the agreement 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.120 limits the authority of the Parliament to make laws and 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.640 conductor's business. So do you feel like there is enough 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:02.720 of a guarantee there that the government of the day 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:03.480 will listen. 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.280 Look, I've heard far too much about the concept of 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.599 parliamentary sovereignty in the last couple of years, and the 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.520 ever really need to But we're very mindful that parliament 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.040 has its role to do and that's rightfully so, given 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:16.800 that they're chosen by all the people of the state. 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:19.199 So we just want to make sure that when there 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.080 is a role for government to have decisions that impact 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.800 first peoples, that they're actually hearing from first peoples about that. 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.120 We want to make sure we have really strong relationships. 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.120 As Nagara said before, that's really key to these processes 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:32.880 of being able to sit down and look in the 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.000 eye of these politicians and say this is what our 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.800 people need, and this is what our people are saying, 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.559 and this is what our experts are saying, and hopefully 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.520 that sees the change. But if not, we can keep 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.560 coming back to the table and having those conversations and 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.120 understand if that's not the approach they think will work, 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.440 what will and how can we make that work even better? 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.360 And we've had a really strong relationship with the state 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.840 over six years now, you know, right across the political sphere, 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.520 to ensure that we that support and really entrenched the 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.800 work that we've done within this system to be able 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.560 to have strong foundations for treaty and strong relationships as 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:10.559 we head into the future. 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.560 Coming up, how the success of this treaty will be 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:26.679 measured over the coming years, So Reuben and Agara, as 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.760 part of this treaty, primary and secondary school children will 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.440 learn more about Victoria's First People's There's going to be 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.240 a new curriculum developed choosing some of the findings of 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.000 the commission. So tell me a bit about what might 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.880 be taught and what you're hoping that that will achieve. 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.920 Yeah, Well, the work of Europe has been absolutely profound 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:48.200 and the fact that we've now completed the inquiry and 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.079 we have those hundred recommendations and truth telling in education 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.160 is really key to the future of this country and 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.360 how we will coexist together all Victorians within the state 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.120 understanding the real history, the true history. 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.920 I have learned much that I did not know in 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:10.199 terms of the true history of the dispossession, what the settlers, 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:15.200 the colonizers did when they came to Victoria. I did 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.920 not know of the massacres. I'm ashamed to say I 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:24.120 did not. I have learned about the size and scale 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.800 of the murders and the massacres through my preparation for 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:30.320 my appearance today. 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.920 And I think of my own child, a nine year 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.199 old that's been on this treaty journey with us. She's 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.240 a bit of a treaty kid. But how amazing would 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.040 it be for the schools within Victoria to understand the 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.800 history of this country and celebrate sixty thousand years of 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.360 culture and what that means to us as the first 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:52.320 peoples of this land, and for people to really understand 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.319 the history of this country, because it is a shared 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.320 history that we all have as Victorians. 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:58.640 And I think on that as well. Sometimes there can 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:02.000 be seen to be just to focus on the more 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.079 traumatic sides about the history of first people's And obviously 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.200 it is important that all Victorians can better understand the 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:12.200 true impact of colonization, but it's also about celebrating black excellence. Still, 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.439 it's about every school kid in Victoria should understand the 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.480 significance of the aquaculture system down at Budja Bim, and 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:22.439 they should understand the significance of people like Nagara's grandfather 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.840 and great grandfather and all the work of first peoples 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.959 in progressing that comes across the old State. We want 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.559 to make sure we're celebrating average on history as well 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:31.600 as part of that process. 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.560 And the opposition, the Liberal that opposition in Victoria doesn't 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:36.440 support the treaty. 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:38.280 It's still a voice to parliament. 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.200 The government are trying to put through a voice to 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.600 Parliament without taking it to the Victorian community. 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:44.199 Is that disappointing? 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.319 It's disappointing. Like we've worked really hard to build relationships 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.440 with the opposition this term and we've got open door policy, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.120 so we'll continue that dialogue of the opposition. But yeah, 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.720 it's disappointing. We work hard on our relationships and I 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.760 think we'll just continue to do that. But I think 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.560 they've kind of showed some of their true colors within 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.559 the parliament. But I think for us, we'll just continue 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:08.240 the dialogue with the opposition. 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.600 Yeah, and to me. There's two really key components. One 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.720 is they've spoken about the importance of closing the gap, 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.000 and we recognize the importance of that too, and that's 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.360 why we've drawn so heavily from the work of the 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.320 Productivity Commission. If I was going to say who knows 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.720 best about what might need to change for closing the gap, 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.559 it's first peoples and a Productivity Commission that has done 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.600 an in depth review and to what needs to change, 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.160 and so we're delivering on those things from the Closing 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.240 the Gap Review. And also just to note that this 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.960 has happened, there's going to be a tree error and 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:39.760 we need to make sure we can use that to 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.439 best benefit for all Victorians and to get better outcomes. 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.559 But it's something that's going to be there and we're 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.400 happy to work with all sides of government to make 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.520 that work as effectively and efficiently as possible. 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:53.640 And this is the first Australian treaty. You mentioned that 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.200 international examples were looked at while this was being formulated. 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:58.679 Can you tell me a bit more about that and 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:00.600 the lessons that you've taken from elsewhere. 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.320 Yeah, there's a lot of learnings and lessons and we 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.880 speak I'm really closely with our different indigenous brothers and 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:12.040 sisters across the globe, and we've recently visited with the 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.520 Maldi to have some strong relations there to learn from 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.080 their treaties and the history of the Treaty of Waitangi. 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.400 We talk with the Mob in the States, like with 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:26.360 the Native American Mob and the British Columbian Mob Saami. 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.680 We've looked at all the different examples and I think 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.160 from Ruben's perspective, we've got a poss and skin cloak 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.800 analogy where we've put together some of the best examples 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.520 and learnings of successful treaties and we've adapted that and 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.520 tailored that to our approach. And I think we're in 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.680 a really strong position and we've got a lot of 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.160 support right across the globe, and I know that a 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.040 lot of Indigenous peoples and even our different countrymen and 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:53.360 women across the different jurisdictions of Australia are watching and 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.400 supporting us from afar. So it's pretty exciting to think 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.920 that we will have a treaty in a modern context 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.800 and the very first one of its clients in Australia. 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.320 Yeah, and Leonnafin talk a lot about how Victoria is 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.920 leading the way in a national perspective, but we're just 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.880 catching up with the rest of the globe. Like coal 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.480 Off countries have had these treaty processes in place for 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.360 a long long time now, so it's really as important 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.040 to see this from a global perspective. 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.440 And so how will you measure the success of this 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:25.080 treaty and say, five or ten years time, how big 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.280 is the scale of the change that you hope that 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:29.080 this will make. 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:32.560 Yeah, I think that our community will be the measures 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.440 of success, and hopefully we see our communities continue to 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.880 thrive and see the ability to actually take control of 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.520 our own lives and actually thrive in our own communities 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:44.360 and have our culture be really strong. That's what we're 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.320 looking for, and we want to make sure that we 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.440 have all of our community participating and involved in these processes, 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.840 and that'll be, from my perspective, the true measure of success. 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:54.960 I think a key issue we've faced in a lot 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.760 of these spaces is that so often what success looks 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:01.360 like is dictated by external measures, where government are deciding 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.760 that these are the measures of success. And now we're 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.480 entering towards the process where we as first peoples will 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.560 be able to determine what we think success looks like 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.000 and measure that against our own ideas, which is really important. 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.800 Well, Nagara Rubin, thank you so much to be your time. 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:17.440 Thank you our pleasure. 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.720 This is the first part of a two part episode. 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.120 In the next episode, I speak to writer and my 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.320 seven AM co host Daniel James about the politics of 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.360 the treaty and why other states and territories have abandoned 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:41.800 their own treaty processes. 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:46.320 So the response from sections of the media was entirely predictable, 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.560 trying to conflate it with things like the referendum, which 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.400 is a completely different thing. This is it, this is 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:56.040 what's happening, and if people want to conflate that with 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.680 the referendum result for political purposes, then we'll wave to 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:01.720 them as we go over the hill and down the road. 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.239 It's called the politics and pushback, and it's in your 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:06.720 feet now.