WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 4 March 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.840 Late Welcome the late base. 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:09.280 Great thanks for joining us on the late Debates. I'm 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:12.840 James Macpherson with Liz Storer and Caleb Bond. Coming up tonight, 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:15.960 Formula one drivers at the Melbourne Grand Prix told to 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.680 watch their language. 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:19.760 We'll explain why a bit later. 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.600 Plus, when we look at what's making news tomorrow, the 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:27.080 federal government's green hydrogen dreams exposed. It's just that dream, 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.120 although when you look at the amount of money invested, 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:33.199 it's more like a nightmare. And former immigration detainees, including 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.960 rapists and murderers, being paid five hundred dollars a week 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.600 to live in the community. We'll get to all of 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:43.640 that a little later, but first, you know, just when 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:48.120 you thought government waste could not possibly get any worse, 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:49.920 have a look at this. 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.560 It's been revealed in Senate estimates. 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:57.360 That public servants have been enrolled in drama classes at 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.920 twenty five thousand dollars cost to tax pay. So these 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:05.840 public servants can learn to communicate with empathy, which kind 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.760 of begs the question, if you take acting classes to 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.080 show empathy, do you then need follow up acting classes 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.759 to learn how to feign sincerity. The classes were provided 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.080 for thirteen top bureaucrats over two days at NIDA, the 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:25.080 National Institute of Dramatic Art. Now Claire Chandler, the Liberal Senator, 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:29.160 was outraged by this. She told estimates on the Albenzy 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:33.880 government's Watch Services Australia spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayers 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.160 money on speechwriters and drama classes, while Australians will left 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:42.720 waiting months for their pensions to be approved. I suppose, Calebin, 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.160 there's the advantage in this is for all those pensioners 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:49.320 waiting wondering where is my welfare check? At least when 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.360 you ring Services Australia you will get empathy, and not 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.160 just empathy, but you'll get it with dramatic flare. She 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.680 went on to say, this is a typical example of 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:03.600 the Albaneze government's wait, full spending and bizarre priorities amidst 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:08.239 a cost of living crisis. Liza kind of makes me wonder, 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.600 how do you get to be a top bureaucrat overseeing 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.920 thousands of people if you need to go to Neider 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.760 to learn skills in communication, that alone, you know, showing 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:20.480 basic empathy with people. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.880 To be honest, I'm genuinely torn on this one because 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:24.959 while it seems. 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:26.480 Laughable at face value. 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.520 Anyone who ever tries to treat and squeeze a drop 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.600 of blood out of someone on the other end of 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:35.880 the line. You're just trying to deal with one of 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:41.720 these government departments, and these ones, particularly Oversea Centering and Medicare. 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:42.960 So people are trying to make. 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.880 Claims there are at vulnerable points in their lives. 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:50.919 These people do not care if you live or die. 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.600 Now, luckily I haven't had much to do with Medicare. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.720 I am in good health, always have been, thank the Lord, 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.480 and neither have I had much to do Center Link ever. 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:07.880 But the exchanges that I have had with government entities 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.079 when I'm just trying to like sort out parking fines 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.240 or dealing with Services New South Wales who could do 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:19.320 with their training, men's maybe hit up nider. They are 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:24.200 completely and utterly robotic. They are dealing with people on 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:28.120 a daily basis who are incredibly vulnerable. They are not 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.840 in a good place in their lives, hence them needing 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:35.920 to communicate with you. And these people are down right horrible. 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:37.920 I would go so far as to say. 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:42.560 Low key traumatic experiences with Service New South Wales. 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.920 I am not kidding. I am no wallflower. 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.840 I am no pushover, as you've probably figured out. 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:49.720 But those guys took. 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:53.680 Me to the edge of my sanity and they're not 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.480 even they're not even appt at their jobs to make 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.480 up for the fact that they clearly do not give 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:00.680 a rap. 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:02.480 And so if it was. 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.160 Those kinds of people that were receiving this training, I'd 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.520 say taxpayer money well spent. 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.160 Don't you go to the leadership coach rather than a 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:12.080 drama coach. 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.600 Well, this is the thing, right, because you get an 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.360 acting lesson on how to show empathy. 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:22.080 Now, to tell you people at. 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.359 Home what empathy means if you didn't already know. 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:25.279 In fact, I think I'm. 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.520 Telling this to the public service what empathy means, because 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.200 they didn't seem to understand it. According to the Oxford Dictionary, 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.880 empathy is the ability to understand and share the feelings 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.400 of another Now, I'm pretty sure if you take an 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.640 acting lesson, you learn how to seem like you know, 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:40.720 to be empathetic. 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.440 You don't actually learn how to be empathetic. 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.240 I mean, just because you've had an acting lesson, it 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:49.479 doesn't mean you actually understand the feelings of another person. 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.160 It's just that You've been taught to deal with them 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.200 in such a way that it makes it look like. 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:55.880 You understand how they're feeling. 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.560 That's not empathy. That's fraud, is what that is. 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.080 We need to have a fact check though, on. 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.719 This business, Liz that you're always in good health. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.960 You have been splattering more than a diesel engine on 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:08.880 a cold. 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.520 Morning since you got back from. 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.800 Pommy Land, so I won't be hearing any of this 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:14.640 business about how you're in good health. 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.159 Can I just say I was in perfectly good health 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.320 and the woman I was sat next to on Qatar 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.000 Airways otherwise known as Hamas Airways, I got in big 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:27.039 trouble for flying Katar at art. They're all like, you're 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:28.960 supporting the wrong people. 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.240 I was like, good grief, I just got the cheapest flight. 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:32.320 Ear thank you very much. 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.640 She was sat next to me with a chesty cough 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.080 the entire time. This should be grounds for a citizens arrest, 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.080 Ladies and gentlemen, it really should be. Did not cover 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:46.119 her mouth once, did not wear a mask, wasn't even 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.520 a single semblance of apologetic for the fact that she 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.320 was spreading the plague. I swear she was patient zero 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:57.920 on that she loves and we stepped next for fourteen hours. 0:05:57.960 --> 0:05:59.040 It should be a criminal thing. 0:05:59.040 --> 0:05:59.760 You got to say something. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.000 I'm sitting here four nights a week next to someone 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.360 with a chesty cough, who doesn't does not wear a mask, 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:06.880 and has never apologized. 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:08.160 So we will move on. 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:11.159 It. 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:14.960 Let's get back to the topic at hand. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.599 Speaking of public servants, Peter Dutton has announced that if elected, 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.719 he will require public servants in Canberra to get back 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.040 to the office at present. Fully a quarter of public 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.640 servants in Canberra work from home at some point last year. 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.880 He says, from a coalition government's point of view, it 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.440 will be five days a week back in the office. 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:36.680 Here's Peter Dutton. 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.320 I think Australian taxpayers, who are working harder than ever 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.400 under this government and barely keeping the head above water. 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.720 I think they expect the government and the government employees 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.279 to be working as hard as they are, and people 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.720 refusing to go back to work in Canberra is not acceptable. 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.560 We need an efficient delivery of government services now. 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.839 Whether you agree with Dutton or not, I thought and 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.159 the Albanesi's response was ridiculous. 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:04.440 He called this Trumpian. 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.360 Policy bocause so obviously Gump has thought of it. 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:09.640 People don't work bad Trump. 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.440 And by the way, bear in mind, we still don't 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.520 know whether America is going to hit us with tariffs yet, 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.440 and so for Anthony Albanesi to be going around talking 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.600 about Trumpian policy is probably not wise. The Coalition are 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:26.080 saying simply that rather than working from home being a 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.000 right as it has become under Federal Labor, it would 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.200 be more a request that would be made under the Coalition, 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.680 and they would handle things on a case by case basis. 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.000 So women, for instance, who wanted to work from home 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.520 because they had young children, well it would be considered. 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.520 They're not saying no, they're just saying it's not a 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:46.200 right that is automatically guaranteed. It would have to work 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.960 for you and for the organization. That sounds eminently fair 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:50.720 and sensible. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:51.640 Of course it does. 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.640 As I've said many times before, get your lazy ass 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.080 back to the office. The rest of us are in 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:00.760 the office doing the things that we've all always done 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.640 for time immemorial. And the problem, of course, particularly if 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:08.160 you're a public servant and your workload's probably pretty light anyway, 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.360 but if you actually want to get some work done, if. 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.560 Everyone's in the office. I've got a problem needs to 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:14.160 be solved. 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.560 I can get up from my desk and I can 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.480 walk five desks away and say to someone, dada da 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:20.920 da da, problem solved. 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:22.120 We've worked out how to do it. 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.280 If you're working from home, I've got to call you 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:26.680 up and make an appointment to get you on Zoom 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:30.400 at two pm tomorrow afternoon in order to fix anything. 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.840 If everyone is in the office, it's much easier to 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:35.959 get jobs done. And of course you'd like to think 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.600 we'd have a more efficient public service. But I think 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.480 this also serves another purpose because Dutton and the Coalition 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.800 have said that they want to cut the public service, 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.120 specifically the thirty six thousand odd public servants that have 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.280 been added to the workforce. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:51.200 Under the alban Easy government. 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:53.680 And this is a good way to get rid of 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:57.320 people without actually sacking them, because I've made the argument 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:01.600 before at the public service everywhere needs to be cut 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:03.720 and one of the easiest ways to do it is 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:08.360 by attrition. When someone leaves the public service, don't hire 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:09.360 another person. 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:10.480 You're able to get. 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.679 Your numbers down very quickly if you do that, and 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.360 you don't have to fire a single person. So if 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.360 they start saying, well, you've got to be in the 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.800 office five days a week, and people go, well, I 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.440 don't like that. They'll go and get a job somewhere else. 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:24.960 And then you get to cut the public service without 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:26.120 actually sacking anyone. 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:28.160 Is that not the ideal situation. 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:30.640 I mean, you can understand why he's doing it. He 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.719 knows that this will be everyone sitting at home. We'll 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.960 be like, yeah, you guys, get backed to work. But 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.000 as far as I'm concerned, a coalition government, we're going 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:41.240 to force everyone. 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:41.440 Back to work. 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.680 It was a coalition government that stood by and did 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:48.480 fat nothing when millions. 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.360 Of healthy people were forced. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:54.040 To work at home, millions of healthy children weren't allowed 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.880 to go to school, and those adults have not returned 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.240 to the workplace, and that some of those kids still haven't. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:01.360 Return to school. 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.640 As far as I'm concerned, it's your fault, So don't 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.080 come cry and now being like, oh, no, people have 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.720 discovered a better work life balance and we're not going 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.920 to give it to them anymore. You made this problem 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:19.040 when you took ridiculous measures of a jolly pandemic that 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.640 had a well over ninety eight percent recovery rate. Mate, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.520 so I get that you're trying to win an election, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:30.720 that's very obvious, But do me a favor. You guys 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:34.720 started the problem, and nobody believes that public servants are 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:36.960 going to be that much more productive in the workplace. 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.000 Caleb, Well, maybe your. 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:45.120 Argument does apply it to the private sector, but public sector. Please, 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.320 last year alone, we forked out thirty seven point three 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.440 billion dollars on just three hundred and sixty thousand employees. 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:54.200 Are any of us better off? 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:56.920 No, we're not now, But you see, public servants get 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.520 things done over yoga sessions during the day, and of 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.120 course if they're not in the office, they can't go 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.040 to yoga together, can they? And can you imagine trying 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.480 this on down in Victoria? Of course, because we know 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:09.440 what their public service has been like. They've had so 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.320 much trouble getting people back to the office down in Victoria, 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.080 and a lot of that has come down to the 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.280 weakness of the Victorian government. And we get yet another 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.600 example of that today. 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:20.199 Now. 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.400 The Herald Son, the Saturday Herald's son on the weekend 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.319 had an exclusive report that kiddy crims would be allowed 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.000 back into the classrooms. Specifically, there was going to be 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:34.160 a trial of fifty kids with ankle bracelets, and these 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.200 would be kids who were teenagers at high risk of 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:41.480 bail non compliance or reoffending being allowed to go back 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:46.040 into public school classrooms with other children. And you might go, 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.960 what the hell, what you're going to let these crims 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.679 go and mix with my kid at school. 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.400 I don't like that. That seemed fair enough. 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:56.680 And then of course they were asked about this the 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.400 government over the weekend and they said, this is a 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.760 spokesman from the Victorian government that there was strict criteria 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:06.360 when determining who is suitable for the electronic monitoring program. 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.360 Getting young people re engaged with school, training or work 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.920 is a proven way to help them break the cycle 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:16.160 of offending. We will always prioritize the safety of staff 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:16.680 and students. 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:17.880 So that was Saturday. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.360 At that point the government was all on board with 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.640 these kids being allowed to go into the classroom. We'll 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.800 fast forward to today Tuesday, and the Education Minister, who's 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.760 also the Deputy Premier, Ben Carrell, says, actually, no, this is. 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:34.800 Off the agenda now, we're not going to do it. 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.800 But the most interesting part is that he said he 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.560 learnt about this by reading it in the paper. Yes, 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.160 he picked up the Herald Son on Saturday morning and 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.520 learned as the Education Minister and Deputy Premier that his 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:54.000 government was going to allow fifty child criminals to mix. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:54.880 It with normal kids. 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:56.720 Here he was at a press conference today. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.640 Well, my reaction was at the bureaucracy got this wrong 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:08.400 and it's not appropriate for kids wearing ankle bracelets to 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.720 be in mainstream school settings. That's why I've sent the 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.240 department back to the drawing board. 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:15.760 The bureaucrats have got it wrong. 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.560 He is correct in saying that, But you're the education minister, mate, 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:21.920 Like this got to the point where the trial was 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.280 going to go ahead next month. 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:25.640 It turns up in. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.680 The paper and that's the first you've heard of child 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.240 criminals being allowed to mix it with other kids in schools. 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.760 Does the bloke have any control of his department whatsoever? 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:38.800 And of course it comes hot on the heels of 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:43.000 a few weeks ago the Premier announcing justinter Allen that 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.000 there would be a review of bail laws. Then the 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.640 Police Minister comes out and says, well, there's not really 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.280 a review of bail laws at all. 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:52.600 I've got some ideas in my bottom. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.000 Drawer that I could pull out to make it all work. 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.800 And then the Attorney General didn't speak for four days, 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.880 and then she finally came out and and didn't tell 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.400 us anything we didn't already know. And the only reason 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.319 she came out to talk to us eventually was because 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.720 she found out again another thing that a minister didn't 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.880 know that bail services in Victoria were being run by 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.160 private companies. And one of these companies had just stopped 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.080 working and not told the government that they were doing it, 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:24.160 and they had criminals on bail at large walking around Victoria, and. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.920 They had no idea where they were. Just this government 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:28.160 had any. 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:32.880 Idea, the politicians specifically, any idea what is going on 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:33.680 in Victoria. 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.400 My big takeaway from this is thank god Ben Carroll 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.560 read the paper on You know, I don't imagine the 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.640 state of Victorian schools if just for whatever reason Ben Carroll, 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.880 I don't know, he just didn't bother to pick up 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.120 the Herald's son and read what was happening in his 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:51.120 state and what was proposing to be done by his government. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.240 It's a hell of a way to run a state. 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.280 But we all know that Victoria's being run like hell. 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.680 The other big thing about this is for bureaucrats to 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.760 come up with an idea where fifty high risk juvenile 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.400 criminals would be put into mainstream schools. 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.840 They would have, as you said, ankle bracelets. 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.520 Teachers would have to be taught not only how to 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.520 monitor the fact that these ankle bracelets are being worn, 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.440 but also teachers would be trained to help destigmatize, which 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.520 I think is hilarious because we want all the kids 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:23.280 to get used to. 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.080 This is normal over all. 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:29.960 These kids, that's that speculative. 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.280 We know what they're doing, right, They're focusing on the 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:36.520 feelings of a very small minority of people who are 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.680 doing the wrong thing and ignoring the welfare of the 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.040 overwhelming majority, which is pretty much the way governments right 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.560 around the country are running everything right now. It's all 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.000 about the feelings of a very small group of people 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.240 to the exclusion of the welfare of the majority. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.400 I don't know that it is about the kids feelings. 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.520 I mean, the research is very very comprehensive that kids, 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.880 if they're sent to juvie, for instance, have much higher 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.040 rates of recidivism. They are far more likely to be 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.720 re arrested, far more likely to fall into a life 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.520 of crime. Because of course the people that they're associating 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:15.040 with are all criminals. So the real question here is, Okay, 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.320 if these kids can't go to school, where are they 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.680 going to go. They still need to be educated, and 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.120 it is to their great detriment if they are then 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:30.160 only allowed to socialize with other kids with the same proclivities. 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.280 So this is not a new argument, but it's a 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.520 very necessary one to have. 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:37.760 And again it sounds very good for a politician to 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.520 come out and say, well, you know, we can't have this. 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.560 I very much believe that if these kids are walking 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.720 around with an ankle bracelet on, they're not being accused 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.920 of crimes like I don't know, bodily harmed to somebody else. 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:55.200 We're probably talking about theft, We're probably talking about those 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.720 kinds of crimes. They're not talking about all their high 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.400 risk in terms of their going to harm a fellow 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.800 kid at school. And again, the research shows that if 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:09.280 these kids are properly socialized, they're far more likely to 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.639 grow out of those kinds of behaviors. Because what is 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.200 the other option, how do they get their education homeschooling? 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.960 I don't think so A lot of these kids. Heil 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.200 from troubled homes. So you're not going to send them 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.800 home to parents or a parent and be like, Okay, 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:31.200 their education is now your responsibility. That simply doesn't make sense. 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.040 So again I'm torn here because I know that it 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.000 sounds well and good to be like, well, these kids 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.439 have an unkle bracelet, and therefore they shouldn't be allowed 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:44.000 to socialize with normal children. But the research shows them 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:49.119 socializing with normal children, having friends who are from good 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.480 functioning homes, and forming a great social kids are. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.320 So it's all about peers. 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.840 It's all about peer pressure, and that works for the 0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:58.440 good and. 0:17:58.600 --> 0:17:59.200 For the bad. 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.439 So if these kids are to go to school, and 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.760 again they're not, they're not on the record for harming 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:10.360 people bodily, they've probably stolen something or the like. They're 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.680 to go to school to end up with a good 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:13.800 circle of friends. 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.200 And that's the argument is it works both ways, right, 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:18.880 So if you're a parent and you're sending your kid 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.199 to the local public school, you don't want your kid 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.560 hanging around with some kid who is so prone to 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.639 breaking the law that he requires twenty four to seven 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:28.719 government surveillance. 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.119 So the whole you know, like attraction. 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.680 I say, I'm both ways, I'm torn, and. 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.000 That's that's all fine, But how is it that the 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.760 department decides this is going to happen and the Education 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.240 Minister has no idea If you're going to have the discussion, 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.919 that's one thing, but clearly it was a discussion that 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.920 was had with no involvement from the minister whatsoever. What 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.720 sort of control do you have over your government and 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:56.439 your department if the Education Minister is not involved in 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:58.840 such an important discussion an issue as that. 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.359 Well, the government should probably have some discussions about their 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.800 policy on the Ukraine because they seem to be all 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.119 over the place at the moment as well. Just yesterday 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.200 the Defense Industry Minister Pat Conroy said that he did 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.680 not envisage a situation where Australian soldiers would be sent 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:21.240 to Ukraine as peacekeepers. But today Anthony Albanezi said, well, 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.080 Kostama Macron, they're talking about putting together a coalition of 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:29.600 the willing, and yeah, Australia is very open to sending peacekeepers. 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:30.439 Here's the Prime Minister. 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:37.560 There's discussion at the moment about potential peacekeeping and from 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:43.960 my government's perspective, we're open to consideration of any proposals 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:44.719 going forward. 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:52.679 I'm trying to guess what Chris Min's view on peacekeepers 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:57.880 really or Peter Dutton has a completely different view when 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.720 it comes to Australia's obligation Ukraine. 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:02.040 In terms of. 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.840 Whether we should have boots on the ground in Ukraine, 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.439 I don't support that. I think the Europeans have that 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.240 task and I think what President Trump's pointed out is 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.000 that the Europeans need to do more in the defense 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.520