1 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: You can listen to the Front on your smart speaker 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: the news from the Australian. From the Australian, here's what's 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: on the Front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Wednesday, October sixteen. 5 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: Anthony Albanezi says he's in politics for the long haul 6 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: after the opposition suggested his purchase of a four point 7 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: three million dollar beach house suggests he's planning for life 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: after the lodge. The Greens have attacked the purchase, coming 9 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: as Australians struggle with the cost of housing. A gold 10 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: mine proposed for Waddery Country in New South Wales was 11 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: blocked after activists cited as evidence an artwork of a 12 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: blue banded bee, but now links between the activists and 13 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: the artists are emerging. Those stories alive now at the 14 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: Australian dot Com dot a you. Kevin rad says the 15 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: US and Australia must deter China's Shishinping from invading Taiwan 16 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: with catastrophic consequences. Today a provocative book by a very 17 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: unusual diplomat. 18 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 2: Well the b are you Chump? Well, how's you get? Bye? 19 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 2: Undred Bay Light way in. 20 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: This is Kevin brad Way back in twenty eleven doing 21 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: a bit of a humble brag about his ability to 22 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: speak Mandarin. He says, my Mandarin is very bad. It's 23 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: getting worse and worse. I'm one hundred percent of foreigner, 24 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: so I don't understand many Chinese characters. The host asks 25 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: if you'd compare himself to famous Chinese leader Dang Zhoping, 26 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: who returned multiple times to the leadership. This was in 27 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: twenty eleven. Remember when Julia Gillard had deposed Rudd and 28 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: Rudd was cooling his heels as Foreign Minister. Oh no, no, 29 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: chortles Rudd. Dung is a hugely influential figure who's changed 30 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: the world. I'm just an Australian politician. 31 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: Na shall rush for brother that done Joping Pasha Tungwar. 32 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: Rud did, of course come back again, knifing Gillard to 33 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: become PM and lead Labor to defeat at the twenty 34 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: thirteen election. He's not just your average politician. Rudd has 35 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: been an academic and a diplomat, writing a pH d 36 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: thesis on China's present leader Shi Shinping. Now he's Australia's 37 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: ambassador to the United States, and he's turned that thesis 38 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: into a book in a very undiplomatic kind of way. 39 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: Rudd's thesis is that she has fundamentally changed China and 40 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: must now be deterred from invading Taiwan. 41 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 3: He argues, the danger period is now. 42 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: Joe Kelly is the Australian's National Affairs editor. He's reporting 43 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: from Washington, DC, and he obtained an early copy of 44 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: Rudd's new book. 45 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 3: The danger period will last as long as Xijinping is 46 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 3: in power. This is an extremely hawkish interpretation of Xijinping 47 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 3: and his influence on China, and the case that Kevin 48 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 3: Rudd makes is that there isn't sufficient appreciation of Xijinping's 49 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 3: ideological worldview and how that worldview has influenced all aspects 50 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 3: of Chinese society. 51 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: Rudd says she isn't just another leader. He says the 52 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: force of his personality and the totalitarian control of China 53 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: is so great that he has fundamentally shifted the behavior 54 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: of that nation. The biggest risk, Rudd says, is that 55 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: she will invade Taiwan and fundamentally shake the world. 56 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 3: He says, if Xijinping is successful in reclaiming Taiwan, that 57 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 3: his position will then be unassailable. Then the US will 58 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: go into a period of global decline, and from that 59 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 3: moment the path of world affairs will irrevocably change. 60 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 4: War whatever its outcome, would generate death and destruction at 61 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 4: an unimaginable scale. It would also redefine Chinese, American and 62 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 4: global politics and geopolitics in deeply unpredictable yet indelible ways. 63 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 3: However, if Jijinping fails, if he launches an attempt to 64 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 3: retake Taiwan and fails, this will be seen as a 65 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: moment of humiliation for him, a repudiation of his own beliefs, 66 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 3: and a letdown for China generally. He also says that 67 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 3: if the United States and it's allies can engineer a 68 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 3: situation where the stakes are seen to be too high 69 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: for Jijinping to risk an attempt to reclaim Taiwan, it's 70 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: unlikely that Jijinping's successor would try to take the island territory. 71 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 3: And I think that is the trajectory Kevin Rudder is 72 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 3: hoping will unfold in real time. 73 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 4: She's intention is not just to change China, it is 74 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 4: also to change the international order itself underpinned by an 75 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 4: increasingly powerful China as the emerging geopolitical and geoeconomic fulcrum 76 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 4: of that order. 77 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: Geoeconomic fulcrum is a classic Ruddism. It was this brand 78 00:05:55,520 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: of hyper articulate, folksy geekdom that made an unlikely popular 79 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: hero when he was first elected in two thousand and seven. 80 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: Rud says, she's China has rewritten the rules. Its economy 81 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: is so huge it can disrupt every market, and that's 82 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: prompting the rest of the world to react by returning 83 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: to protectionism to try to save their local economies. But 84 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: change is coming. China's population growth is slowing. It's no 85 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: longer the world's most populous nation. That's now India. 86 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 4: The one child policy has produced an unprecedented gender imbalance 87 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 4: within the country of more than thirty million after decades 88 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 4: of male preference, sex selective abortion, and female infanticide. This 89 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 4: has resulted in an unofficial policy of sending large numbers 90 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 4: of unmarried men to the developing world to find partners, 91 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 4: build businesses, and strengthen familial ties with the motherland. 92 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: All this is highly unusual from a diplomat. 93 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: Cavin RD is an unusual all person to have appointed 94 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: as an ambassador. He has a great depth of experience. 95 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 3: He is a former Prime minister, he is a former 96 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 3: foreign minister. He is one of the leading experts in 97 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 3: the world on Chinese foreign policy. And so that means 98 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: that Kevin was always going to take a different approach 99 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 3: to this job. So I think when Anthony Alberanizi made 100 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 3: that appointment, he would have known that it would have 101 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 3: come with various political consequences, and he must have known 102 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 3: that he would need to wear those political consequences. 103 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: Coming up. This means for Australia's relationship with China. He 104 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: is the crux of Rudd's book. He says, Shi Shinping 105 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: hopes that is owing topretation of Marxist ideology, a tightly 106 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: controlled economy, a repressed population, and an aggressive form of 107 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: nationalism can change the way the world thinks about democracy 108 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: and human rights. Rudd says, one factor working against she 109 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: is that he is, like the rest of us, mortal. 110 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 4: He would probably have to maintain power well into his 111 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 4: nineties to appoint enough ideologically reliable, younger Karters to enable 112 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 4: his long term political strategy to take root. 113 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: China is famously thin skinned and defensive. So could this 114 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: trigger another trade war? Joe doesn't think so. 115 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 3: No, I don't think there's any risk Kevin Rudd's book 116 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 3: will ignite that kind of retaliation. Kevin Rudd makes the 117 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 3: point that China has deliberately changed its tactical diplomacy, a 118 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 3: tactical decision was taken to try and better leverage Chinese 119 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 3: influence in the world, that they would shift their approach, 120 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: but this ultimately would be directed at trying to maximize 121 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 3: Chinese influence to achieve its long term strategic objectives. I 122 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 3: think China will continue along that current path of normalizing 123 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 3: relations because it sees that at the moment as the 124 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 3: best trajectory towards its long term goals. 125 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: Joe Keilly is The Australian's National Affairs editor. You can 126 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: read all the best analysis of China from our own 127 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: Will Glasgow, the only Australian correspondent resident in China right now, 128 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com dot au