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Speaker 1: When I say the name Yolayna Dockitch, what comes to

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Speaker 1: mind a teenage tennis superstar destined for greatness or a

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Speaker 1: child who was the victim of ongoing and very public abuse.

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Speaker 2: Both of those things are true.

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Speaker 1: However, Yolana Dokitch is also someone who's not only survived

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Speaker 1: what happened to her, but now fearlessly strides into the

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Speaker 1: world with a fortitude that you probably wouldn't expect from

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Speaker 1: someone who lived through what she lived through in such

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Speaker 1: a public way. A woman who's now found her voice

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Speaker 1: and is dedicating her life to helping others who have

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Speaker 1: been through a similar trauma. Jolena is an incredibly inspiring

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Speaker 1: human being. I'm so glad that she is my guest

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Speaker 1: on this episode. Before we get there, I need to

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Speaker 1: take a moment to pay the bills. We'll be back

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Speaker 1: after the break. Gooday, this is better than yesterday, making

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Speaker 1: it better every episode since twenty thirteen. My name's Oosha Ginsburg.

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Speaker 1: I'm a podcaster. I'm a best selling author, I'm a

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Speaker 1: TV host, a husband, I'm a.

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Speaker 2: Dad, I'm a stepdad.

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Speaker 1: I'm a kind of water bottle collector in the office.

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Speaker 1: They keep coming down here and I keep forgetting to

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Speaker 1: take them upstairs, and now there's literally I can see

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Speaker 1: four no good. I'm a backyard boggy skier constructor, yep,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very glad you're here. Thank you for the

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Speaker 1: lovely feedback about Monday's episode. If you'd like to get

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Speaker 1: a touch super easy, if you have anything you want

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Speaker 1: to let me know about, or if you're likex sending

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Speaker 1: a review into the show, just go to Oshiginsburg dot

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Speaker 1: com the lens in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: That's also where you'll.

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Speaker 1: Find every episode ever dating back to twenty thirteen. You

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Speaker 1: can also sign up and get on the mailing list there.

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Speaker 1: Elaine Doocich is my guest today, a teenage tennis prodigy

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Speaker 1: who astounded the pro circuit when she arrived on the scene.

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Speaker 1: Eline eventually won her way to a top five world

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Speaker 1: tennis ranking. Now, as you're about to hear, at the time,

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Speaker 1: it was actually very evident that she was in a

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Speaker 1: terribly traumatic and dangerous situation. Very little was done to

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Speaker 1: help her. In her first book, Unbreakable, Elena described the

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Speaker 1: physical and emotional abuse that she suffered at the hands

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Speaker 1: of her father.

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Speaker 2: Now she's got a new book.

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Speaker 1: It's called fearless, and in this book, Lena maps out

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Speaker 1: how not only she came back from that trauma, but

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Speaker 1: how she now lives a life that is unrecognizable compared

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Speaker 1: to the darkness of the past. Elena is a professional

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Speaker 1: tennis commentator and has a completely different path in life.

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Speaker 1: How she found that is nothing short of inspiring. Yet

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Speaker 1: this conversation does get into the darkness, as you may expect.

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Speaker 1: So if you're not up for this kind of chat today,

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Speaker 1: it's fine. There's plenty of other episodes that you can

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Speaker 1: check out. We'll see you aback here when you're ready.

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Speaker 1: I'm very grateful to welcome you into my home for

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Speaker 1: this conversation with your later dockage. I'm so gratefully you

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Speaker 1: wrote this book because, like anything, sports always about you know,

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Speaker 1: what's the story behind?

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Speaker 2: While we care?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's ridiculous. So like rugby league, for example,

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Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. These thirteen people who are wearing a similar

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Speaker 1: colored shirt to each other, and those thirteen people over

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Speaker 1: there with a different color shirt to each other. It's

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Speaker 1: extraordinarily important to both of them that this ball gets

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Speaker 1: over there. And these eighty thousand people in the stadium

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Speaker 1: all agree.

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Speaker 2: With it like, it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: And you know, someone's relationship with their parents and their

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Speaker 1: family because they grew up loving this team, their emotional state.

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Speaker 2: For the day is decided.

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Speaker 1: It's completely bonkers, all right, So why we care about

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Speaker 1: sport is so important with a team, it's a little

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Speaker 1: more difficult with individual sports, though, the story of the

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Speaker 1: player of the athlete really comes into it.

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Speaker 2: Your story is fucking horrible.

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Speaker 1: I'll watched the play out, you know, on the Telly,

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Speaker 1: and you know, obviously getting ready to chat with you

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Speaker 1: today going through you know what, people had an idea,

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Speaker 1: You had an idea about what kind of things were

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Speaker 1: going on, but then when you started opening up about it,

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Speaker 1: it's like Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, though it's not an isolated story.

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Speaker 3: No, it's not an isolated story in tennis, it's not

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Speaker 3: an isolated story in support, and it's not an isolated

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Speaker 3: story in society. So that's the scary part. And yeah, look,

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Speaker 3: I at the same time, I don't want people to

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Speaker 3: feel sorry for me, and I don't want people to

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Speaker 3: feel pity towards me at all. For me, it was

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Speaker 3: all about in the end being able to get to

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Speaker 3: a stage where I can have enough strength and courage

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Speaker 3: and a belief in my self and my vulnerability that

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Speaker 3: I can come out, that I can tell my story

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Speaker 3: that it can help someone. But also I wanted to

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Speaker 3: remove those labels and shame and stigma that are often

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Speaker 3: so associated and big in sport and society when it

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Speaker 3: comes to the way that we view especially public figures.

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Speaker 3: And we kind of it was always like, you got

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Speaker 3: to be perfect, know any kind of you know, blemish,

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Speaker 3: let's say in your record, silence was golden. But we

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Speaker 3: didn't take care of actually people and human beings and

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Speaker 3: athletes and young people the way that we should. So everyone,

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Speaker 3: I kind of feel like, was scared a lot of

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Speaker 3: the time to even touch anything like an eating disorder

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Speaker 3: or mental health or abuse because they thought and feed that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: their reputation would be ruined, that they would be shamed

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Speaker 3: and stigmatized. And we were always kind of taught for

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Speaker 3: a very long time just to keep quiet. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think for me, I always kind of knew that

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Speaker 3: I at some stage would tell my story. It was

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Speaker 3: just a matter of when and when I would be ready,

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Speaker 3: And for me it was always upset it. I said

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Speaker 3: at the end of my first book, unbreakable. That it was.

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Speaker 3: If telling my story helps one person, it's mission accomplished.

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Speaker 3: So that was my main reason for doing it. I

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Speaker 3: didn't even think about myself in that moment. I didn't

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Speaker 3: know that it would be cathartic for me, because it

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Speaker 3: was actually quite draining writing it. But I had no

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Speaker 3: idea just the massive impact that it would have on

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Speaker 3: me personally, that I would find my voice and be

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Speaker 3: this completely different person or who I always was but

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Speaker 3: buried deep down with the trauma and the fear and

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Speaker 3: the pressure. But then how much it would change everything

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Speaker 3: that I do and I'm doing now, but also what

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Speaker 3: I want to do for the rest of my life

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Speaker 3: and the way that it can change tennis and sports

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Speaker 3: and society. Be someone that can maybe be looked at

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Speaker 3: as someone that spoke up and someone that is not

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Speaker 3: afraid to speak up and tackle the heart topics.

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Speaker 1: You can't be what you can't see, all right, And

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Speaker 1: to see someone who's been through what you've been through

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Speaker 1: speaking out about what you went through and drawing attention

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Speaker 1: to this kind of control you know, and abuse in

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Speaker 1: the public eye when there was lots of money to

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Speaker 1: be made, is vitally important, but I've got to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, two summers ago, I don't think the people

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Speaker 1: who run the press conferences at the Tennis Grand Slam's

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Speaker 1: got the memo because I swear man, some of those guys,

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Speaker 1: they're all men. Put the hand up and here's a

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Speaker 1: player I don't want to, you know, someone whos identified.

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Speaker 1: Listen amount of them. I'm not really doing great. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to focus on what I came here for, which

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Speaker 1: is to win this game. But I don't need the bullshit.

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Speaker 1: And these guys, Oh, so, you know you you're really

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Speaker 1: disappointed in yourself A you're playing so terribly to.

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Speaker 2: And this poor kid, kids like eighteen or nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Just what guys man like if you had a message

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Speaker 1: for the you know, some of the press corps now

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Speaker 1: that you've seen that side of it, and you've seen

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Speaker 1: in the stakes and these guys trying to hold onto

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Speaker 1: their jobs as much not saying they do justify them

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Speaker 1: at all. If you had a message for some of

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Speaker 1: those journals, what would you say.

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Speaker 3: I went through, Yeah, I went through a very high

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Speaker 3: time when it comes to the media with the way

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Speaker 3: that my father was portrayed, and I that's the one

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Speaker 3: thing that I to this day still kind of don't

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Speaker 3: understand how that could have happened because he was so

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Speaker 3: aggressive and he was drunk doing interviews with the media

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Speaker 3: all the time. And it's one thing to say, okay,

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Speaker 3: but we didn't know what was going on behind closed doors,

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Speaker 3: but yes, okay, But the other thing is that you

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Speaker 3: had an extremely aggressive, drunk person that was had an

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Speaker 3: incident every other week where no one called out that

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Speaker 3: bad behavior and that and thought, look, Jolene is sixteen

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Speaker 3: or fifteen, her brother's eight or seven, because my brother

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Speaker 3: was eight years younger. Should we be concerned that two

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Speaker 3: underage kids are going home with this clearly unstable and

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Speaker 3: drunk and aggressive person. So that's what kind of should

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Speaker 3: have been written instead of he was actually not just

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Speaker 3: written about, but he was made He was a punchline,

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Speaker 3: he was a joke, and even these kind of like

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Speaker 3: funny drawings were made of him, and all of these

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Speaker 3: things kind of poking fun at the whole situation. So

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Speaker 3: I talk about that very openly. And when my book

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Speaker 3: came out, the first one, a lot of people and

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Speaker 3: journalists in a media called and apologized, rote amazing articles

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Speaker 3: and columns, and I'm really grateful for that. That was

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Speaker 3: never what the reason why I did it, but I

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Speaker 3: think it was nice to see that a lot of

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Speaker 3: people acknowledged that. But my still thing was we need

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Speaker 3: to do better today? Are we doing with the same

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Speaker 3: thing happened today? That is why I shared my as well.

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Speaker 3: So I think we need to, yeah, just be a

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Speaker 3: little bit kinder with a lot of those things. That's

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Speaker 3: what I try to do, even through my commentary or

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Speaker 3: TV or when I interview on court. And I never

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Speaker 3: try to say someone's playing you know, you're clearly they're

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Speaker 3: struggling or not playing well. You never I really never

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Speaker 3: try and go and you know, have a go. I

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Speaker 3: think that's important because you never know what's going on.

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Speaker 3: Everyone's trying their best. I think it's important to be kind.

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Speaker 3: You're actually doing your best and you just have a

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Speaker 3: bad day. And I think that that's important.

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Speaker 2: And there's ways to ask those questions.

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes, like for me as someone who asks

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Speaker 1: questions sometimes for a job, there's ways to ask the

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Speaker 1: questions to have the person you're talking to reveal the

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Speaker 1: emotion or reveal reasons without you labeling it, you know.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know if sometimes people go for this

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Speaker 2: biity kind of.

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Speaker 3: You know, well, the problem was that you would you

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Speaker 3: would kind of make fun or whatever would would get

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Speaker 3: you a headline. But then when you write or should

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Speaker 3: be writing about I don't know, just just an example,

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Speaker 3: abusing sport or covering domestic violence, or covering mental health

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Speaker 3: or a eating disorder, then we're kind of staying away

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Speaker 3: from it. So I think, if you got to have

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Speaker 3: the ability to turn it around, tell the tough stories

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Speaker 3: with empathy. But yeah, we don't need the questions or

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Speaker 3: something just so that we get a just so that

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Speaker 3: we get a headline. Give you an example. And I

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Speaker 3: actually put this into my books. I was sixteen, it

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Speaker 3: was my first wimbuton the women that I made the

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Speaker 3: quarters and we didn't have very much. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: grew up really really poor with refugees twice and here

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Speaker 3: I was just qualified for Womburen and we didn't have money,

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Speaker 3: and we stayed in a three star motel, just normal motel,

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Speaker 3: and they wrote that we are staying in a brothel.

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Speaker 3: I was sixteen, my brother was eight. And there is

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Speaker 3: a limit to what you should be allowed to write.

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Speaker 3: And I use some of those examples and some of

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Speaker 3: that stuff. But yeah, I think it's important to call

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Speaker 3: it out.

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Speaker 1: It's scummy bay as well, is there I don't know

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Speaker 1: enough like your story and I think of Britney Spears,

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Speaker 1: I think of Macaulay Culkin. Surely the tool makes enough money.

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Speaker 1: Is there somebody on the tour who's if anybody's under

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Speaker 1: the age of eighteen, that that's their gig? Is to

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Speaker 1: just the duty of care among those people?

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Speaker 3: You get media training, but it's not it's too I

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Speaker 3: mean even.

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Speaker 1: Just like to get between the kid and the coach,

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Speaker 1: or the kid and the parent or the.

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Speaker 3: Short Well, that's different to the media. So that's yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's child protection. So that's different.

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Speaker 2: Is that A part of a lot of work.

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Speaker 3: Has been done in kind of the last let's say

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Speaker 3: even last five years. The problem you have with a

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Speaker 3: sport like tennis is that it's such a worldwide sport

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Speaker 3: and every country has its own federation, has its own

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Speaker 3: governing bodies. We are not all under one umbrella. So

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Speaker 3: you have everything from juniors to pros different country, fifty

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Speaker 3: different governing bodies for all of these different countries, and

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Speaker 3: different laws as well. So what we have in Australia,

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Speaker 3: for example, we have a good system now in Australia

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Speaker 3: when it comes to reporting and when it comes to

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Speaker 3: protecting the younger players, but a lot of the countries don't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, So a lot of the countries don't even

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Speaker 3: have any kind of safety in place or a way

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Speaker 3: to report or how they deal with it. So that's

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Speaker 3: the problem. A lot of work's being done to try

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Speaker 3: and obviously get that together, but it's hard. It's hard

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Speaker 3: because every time you get to a new country, it's

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Speaker 3: under that federation.

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Speaker 1: Surely, Like, I mean, I've got to have a blue

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Speaker 1: card to work with kids. Right when we do TV

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Speaker 1: stuff and there's anybody anjien under the age of eighteen around,

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Speaker 1: there's somebody, there's somebody on set. Their entire job is like,

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Speaker 1: I don't give a shit what you guys are here

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Speaker 1: to film today. My job is to make sure those

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Speaker 1: kids have this many hours of school today, Da da

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Speaker 1: da da d. But when you're at that end of

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Speaker 1: the tennis tour, you're fifteen, you're sixteen years old, you're

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Speaker 1: still a child. You know, there's potentially millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: at stake of sponsorship.

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Speaker 3: Well, individual sports are different to team sports.

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Speaker 1: Yeah as well, Yeah, exactly right, there's sure.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't work the same way.

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Speaker 1: Come on, man, all right, I'm calling that someone make

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Speaker 1: it happen. I don't have a gavel, so I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine what it would be like to it be completely

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Speaker 1: understandable for you've written the first book, that's the story.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you now finally understand what was happening

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Speaker 1: and tying a bow and it put it away. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can understand like even going out you're a recognizable person,

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Speaker 1: being a public people staring at you. That can be

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Speaker 1: tough when you're you know, in those kind of states

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Speaker 1: of fragility.

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Speaker 2: What was it that made you want to go out

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Speaker 2: and go?

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Speaker 1: You know? Ashley, No, I'm going to get back on camera.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to write some more. I'm going to get

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Speaker 2: back into this.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's so much the public aspect of it.

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Speaker 3: I think when I wrote the first book, I really

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Speaker 3: found voice for the first time as someone who was

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Speaker 3: in a domestic violence field home for fifteen years and

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Speaker 3: had consequences because of a lot of that trauma and

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Speaker 3: battled anxiety and depression of PTSD and almost took my

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Speaker 3: own life at twenty two. I kind of felt like

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Speaker 3: I was never really the person who I am deep down.

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Speaker 3: It was all buried under all of that. So for

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Speaker 3: me writing the first one, that was my life story,

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Speaker 3: that was my you know, that was my memoir, my autobiography,

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Speaker 3: and then the second one was kind of almost yeah,

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Speaker 3: I didn't know I would write the second one. I

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Speaker 3: kind of had an inkling, Okay, there's more now to

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Speaker 3: kind of dig deep because I kind of felt like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I'm really only just starting now the healing journey that

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Speaker 3: I've found my voice and told my story, and I

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Speaker 3: found also a lot of obviously my different purposes in

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Speaker 3: life and what I want my legacy to be. But

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Speaker 3: I never looked at it as being back on camera,

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Speaker 3: being back in the spotlight. I mean, I grew up

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Speaker 3: with it from the age of eleven or twelve, so

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Speaker 3: it was nothing new to me. Really. It was just

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Speaker 3: a different these different fields now as a commentator or

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Speaker 3: as a TV personality or being a public speaker or

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Speaker 3: a writer. So it's just in a different way. And

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Speaker 3: this is actually, to be honest, very enjoyable as well.

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Speaker 3: And I get to do all these different things that

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Speaker 3: I never thought that I would. But the reason for

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Speaker 3: the second book is really how I was able to

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Speaker 3: begin healing. Why Unbreakable my first book was so important.

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Speaker 3: The power of sharing our stories and the power of

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Speaker 3: not shaming and stigmatizing and judging people because a lot

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Speaker 3: of people have suffered and even lost their lives and

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Speaker 3: taken their lives because of that fear and that shame

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Speaker 3: and stigma, and continuing to speak up for others that can't.

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Speaker 3: But I also wanted it to be a book about

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Speaker 3: ultimately hope and ultimately belief and that no matter what

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Speaker 3: you go through, that you can recover and that you

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Speaker 3: can actually not even just recover, that you can come

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Speaker 3: out the other end, that you can thrive. If you

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Speaker 3: told me ten years ago that I'd be doing the

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Speaker 3: things that I'm doing it today, I would have told

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Speaker 3: you you're just you know, yeah, like no way. But

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Speaker 3: that's what pushing the boundaries and pushing yourself and being

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Speaker 3: resilient and yeah, just continuing to get outside of your

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Speaker 3: comfort zone, but also that kind of willingness to go

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Speaker 3: you know, this is my truth, this is I'm going

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Speaker 3: to speak up, I'm going to share my story. This

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Speaker 3: is my power. Yeah, you can change your life, finding

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Speaker 3: your voice and actually saying out loud, especially if you're

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Speaker 3: going through things the possibilities are endless. That's when you really,

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Speaker 3: I feel like, start healing. As long as you're holding

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Speaker 3: things in for one reason or another, you're really suffering.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I really found. So once I was

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Speaker 3: able to open up, which for me was my book.

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Speaker 3: So through writing in words, that's why I feel like

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Speaker 3: what we what we say, what we ask, it has

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Speaker 3: so much power. And that's why words are important. What

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Speaker 3: we write and what we say is important. And I've

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Speaker 3: definitely found that through my books and everything that I

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Speaker 3: do today and speak even through social media. And I

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Speaker 3: hope and I really work on that every day, but

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Speaker 3: I hope that I have shown that you can turn

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Speaker 3: it into something amazing, something good, something that can help

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Speaker 3: people through just being kind and being nice and not

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Speaker 3: being For me, it was really important in all of

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Speaker 3: this to not come out as a bitter, resentful and

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Speaker 3: hateful person because I went through a lot, so I

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Speaker 3: wanted to show that as well, and it would be

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Speaker 3: completely understandable for people that do and even even if

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Speaker 3: I was, but I wanted to go the approach, you

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Speaker 3: know what, I really want to go through this with

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Speaker 3: the opposite so turn the negativity into positivity, the bad

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Speaker 3: into the good, the pain and the suffering into something

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Speaker 3: that will change lives and change minds. So I wanted

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Speaker 3: to just kind of show people that, yeah, that positive

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Speaker 3: mindset as well, and constantly believing in yourself and having

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Speaker 3: hope and believing in the light at the end of

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Speaker 3: the tunnel. Yeah, that it can change things, but never

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Speaker 3: to I also wanted people to know to never shrink

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Speaker 3: and never be a shell of yourself or shell of

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Speaker 3: a person because of someone else or because of shame

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Speaker 3: and judgment, whether publicly or whether my family and friends,

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Speaker 3: because that speaks words and volumes about those people. So

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Speaker 3: I want people to know that their voice is so powerful.

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Speaker 1: Anyone listening to this, you know, the amount of trauma

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Speaker 1: that you've been through that we are aware of that

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Speaker 1: you shared about is everyone's been through some stuff. But

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Speaker 1: that's like, as they say, that's big TA trauma what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. So these people listening is most definitely

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Speaker 1: had big T trauma in their lives, really be when

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Speaker 1: they were quite young or you know, perhaps more recently

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Speaker 1: when you started to learn about traumaous sponsors and things

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Speaker 1: like that. What surprised you the most.

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Speaker 3: I think what surprised me the most is how much

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Speaker 3: we actually keep in and bury deep down, and that

378
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Speaker 3: it really becomes a part of us, and until you

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Speaker 3: kind of start to get that out, it stays there.

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Speaker 3: But I also kind of discovered that those can be

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Speaker 3: your kind of I'll call them battle wounds or scars,

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Speaker 3: and that's okay. They are there, but that doesn't make

383
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Speaker 3: you weak. It actually shows what you've been through, but

384
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Speaker 3: come out the other end. So for me, I went

385
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Speaker 3: through therapy and I've got professional help, but I genuinely

386
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Speaker 3: think if I didn't, I wouldn't be.

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Speaker 1: Here today because it's very difficult to try to process

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Speaker 1: trauma with the same brain that is in trauma response

389
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Speaker 1: exactly and responding in the patterns of that trauma reuss.

390
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Speaker 1: It's like this loop.

391
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Speaker 3: I started to actually understand some of the ways that

392
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Speaker 3: I was feeling some of my behavior, my eating disorder

393
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Speaker 3: for example, as well anxiety depression PTSD, where all of

394
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Speaker 3: that came from. But yeah, I don't know, There's a

395
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Speaker 3: lot I was surprised with because as I was kind

396
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Speaker 3: of unpacking a lot of it, things were just coming

397
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Speaker 3: up to the surface. So I really found so much

398
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Speaker 3: therapy in talking about it and actually going bit by

399
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Speaker 3: bit and actually realizing because I blamed myself for a

400
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Speaker 3: long time, and then I actually realized it's actually not

401
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Speaker 3: my fault now. Also, I don't know, I kind of

402
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 3: just realized, look, we're all dealt different cards in life,

403
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Speaker 3: and it was okay, this was mine, but it was

404
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Speaker 3: more how do I put that in the past, that

405
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Speaker 3: it doesn't define me and defeat me. It shapes me

406
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Speaker 3: as a person as let's say, stronger, wiser, more resilient,

407
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Speaker 3: but it doesn't define me and defeat me. And for

408
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Speaker 3: a very long time, I really felt like it defining

409
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Speaker 3: who I am.

410
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Speaker 1: And that's understandable. Like the kind of abuse that you've

411
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Speaker 1: been through. You get why people move to another state,

412
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Speaker 1: another country, change their name, and that's it.

413
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Speaker 2: They just they live this.

414
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Speaker 1: Tiny, tiny, tiny life as a way of trying to

415
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Speaker 1: keep themselves safe, like they're far away from the abuser.

416
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Speaker 3: But you know, it all depends what kind of what

417
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Speaker 3: you've been through, and everyone's got maybe different things that've

418
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Speaker 3: gone through. For me, it was a fear of abandonment

419
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Speaker 3: as well. So I realized as well that for me,

420
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Speaker 3: I would give people a lot of chances that didn't

421
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Speaker 3: have my best interest at heart, and I did it

422
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Speaker 3: because I do try to be nice and I don't

423
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Speaker 3: like to cut people off and I like to give

424
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Speaker 3: people chances always. But at the same time, was I

425
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Speaker 3: keeping people around as well because there was this fear

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Speaker 3: of abandonment as well, because that's what kind of my

427
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Speaker 3: family did. I didn't have really a family, right, Yeah,

428
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Speaker 3: so I never really felt accepted or scene, let's say,

429
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Speaker 3: or like I belonged anyway. Yeah safe, So, yeah, a

430
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Speaker 3: lot of those things I really Yeah, I discovered why

431
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Speaker 3: I was doing them, and yeah, I really felt like

432
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Speaker 3: once I started to unpack that, I became a new person.

433
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Speaker 3: So now I don't also look for validation, for example,

434
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Speaker 3: external validation in my work. I know that for me,

435
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: validation doesn't come through work or what I achieve professionally,

436
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 3: which for a very long time was the thing that

437
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 3: I felt like was the most important and what defined me.

438
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 3: So I felt like that with tennis, for example. But

439
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 3: now it's different. I have a lot of validation and

440
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 3: the way that I think it has nothing to do

441
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 3: with work. Yeah, it's what my passions and my meaning

442
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 3: in life is and much bigger than Yeah, if I

443
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 3: get this gig or what I do here as much

444
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 3: as I love my work, own so much fashion and

445
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 3: love in it, I found that kind of validation. It's

446
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 3: got nothing to do with work as well.

447
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: For the kind of work you're talking about and the

448
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: kind of social psychological work that you're talking about, the

449
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: kind of digging into it, I can understand why people

450
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,719
Speaker 1: might be reluctant to go back and revisit that stuff.

451
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 2: It's a lot.

452
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, what would you say about facing it in a

453
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: supportive environment, working with somebody? What would you say about that?

454
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: About how frightened you might be to unpack stuff? Also,

455
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: stuff that you don't realize is even there and starts

456
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: to show up. What would you say to people who

457
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,239
Speaker 1: haven't been trying to seek help or anything, because it

458
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: means going through all that stuff.

459
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, you don't necessarily have to go through

460
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 3: all of it. No one is forcing you to all

461
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 3: of a sudden, you have to talk about all of this.

462
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 3: For me, I found a great carepy like I've found

463
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 3: a great psychiatry through. Yeah, it was very at my pace,

464
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 3: and you know, certain things we didn't, even let's say

465
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 3: fully fully go into. I kind of felt like I

466
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 3: maybe even said more in my book than I did

467
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 3: to my psychiatrist, even though he knows everything I've been through.

468
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 3: But it's just the way that you process your emotions,

469
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 3: the way that you think. And for me, the biggest

470
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 3: thing I had is I was always going I was

471
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 3: always going into my past and I couldn't change anything,

472
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 3: And for me, I kind of always felt like maybe

473
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 3: I could. I was living in the past, and I

474
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 3: didn't realize that until I went kind of to therapy

475
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: and go, well, I've got the whole life ahead of me.

476
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 3: It's how I'm going to live from now for the

477
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 3: rest of my life. It's not about the past. I've

478
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 3: lived that that's fine. It's traumatic. I've dealt with with

479
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: some of that, and a part of that was also

480
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 3: cutting out toxic people and relationships. So I haven't spoke

481
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 3: to my father in more than ten years. Some coaches

482
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: and some people that were around me that weren't great

483
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 3: for me and weren't good to me. Same thing completely stopped,

484
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 3: not just because I've stopped playing tennis, but even they're

485
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 3: out of my life. And the day I started doing that,

486
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 3: everything changed. But I wouldn't have learned that unless I

487
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 3: kind of went to therapy. For example, I always felt like, well,

488
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 3: even like if someone did something to me and hurt me,

489
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 3: if I cut them off, I felt like the bad person.

490
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 3: And then, you know, obviously my psychiatrist was like, no,

491
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 3: you're just trying to please others. You're not thinking about yourself.

492
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 3: You've got to be your own priority. But that doesn't

493
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: make you a bad person. So I actually realized that

494
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 3: I had a lot of people in my life because

495
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 3: I didn't want to disappoint someone. So it's so I

496
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 3: could go on about it for days and days, but

497
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,239
Speaker 3: I will say this, yes, look there was a lot

498
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 3: of tears. There was a lot of It's even my

499
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 3: book and putting it out on paper. With my first book,

500
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 3: I said to my publisher straight away, there's one non negotiable.

501
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 3: I am going to be one hundred percent honest. So

502
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 3: whoever's read on will know. I go into detail with

503
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 3: my abuse, what that looked like, What the beatings look like,

504
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 3: What my beatings with the leather belt until I bled

505
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 3: look like, being kicked and punched in a head until

506
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 3: I was unconscious, looks like even things like being a refugee.

507
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 3: And we were lucky if we on the days we

508
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: had bread to eat, so I really go in depth,

509
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 3: and I think that was important if you're going to

510
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 3: do something. I felt like I really needed to do

511
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 3: it in full. But what made it possible for me

512
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 3: is that I had a supportive environment. So that's why

513
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 3: I like to straight away turn it and go. But

514
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 3: we need to create safe spaces and environments for people

515
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 3: to be able to do that. If you don't have that,

516
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 3: people are not going to be able to open up

517
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 3: and deal with it. If you don't have supportive communities,

518
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 3: if you don't have supportive schools, sport, whether it's an

519
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 3: individual sport or a team sport, if you don't have

520
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 3: these things available, people are going to continue suffering in silence.

521
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 3: And just for that reference, you got nine people that

522
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: commits to a side every single day in Australia and

523
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: more than a million people worldwide every single year. But

524
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 3: people suffering silence, they really do. And how often do

525
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 3: we do We hear about someone that has taken their

526
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: life and we go We've had no idea. That's because

527
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 3: people are afraid to open up. They're afraid to say, look,

528
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: I think I need professional help, or afraid to say Look, this.

529
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: Is what I'm going stopped me from taking meds for

530
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: a decade nearly.

531
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 3: Well, how many times have we heard the victim blaming

532
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 3: when it comes to domestic violence? How many times people say,

533
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 3: if you go to as chiatrist, go, he's crazy, he's

534
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 3: ready for the luny bin. No, but these are the terms.

535
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: We used back in the day.

536
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, didn't those with the labels and the shame

537
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 3: and the stigma and people. I mean, I know I

538
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 3: felt like that back. You know. So, I still feel

539
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: like we have a lot of work to do, but

540
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 3: that needs to stop. For any kind of progression that

541
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 3: we can make as a society and for individuals, is

542
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 3: all of that needs to stop. We need to be

543
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 3: very open about our struggles because by me or you

544
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,479
Speaker 3: or someone else telling us stories, someone's going to read that,

545
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 3: someone is going to find comfort in that, helping that

546
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 3: and go. You know what, my feelings and the way

547
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: I feel is actually normal.

548
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: I learned the word for it. The word is curces

549
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: s U r c as. That is the feeling of

550
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: I really don't want to die. There's the last thing

551
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: I want to do, but I cannot stand this feeling

552
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: any longer. There's a word for it that's like, that's

553
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: how wildly common it is. And it certainly was related

554
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: to my experience of like I did not want to

555
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: do it, no way, but I couldn't bear another minute

556
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: with the noise.

557
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 3: That's what I felt like twenty two when I for me,

558
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 3: it was on a balcony more than twenty fours up really,

559
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: and I think what actually made me not do it

560
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 3: was like I actually don't want to do this, but

561
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 3: I felt like, oh, but it's all going to all

562
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 3: the pain and blame everything. Kind of feeling like I

563
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 3: am everybody's problem more everything's because of me, would actually stop.

564
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: I never knew.

565
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: And this odd part of it to me was like

566
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: why I first started speaking about it because I never

567
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: knew how seductive it was. I never knew how like,

568
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: come here, mate, I'll make it all better.

569
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: Come on, I'll make it all quiet. Come on, just

570
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: come and do this thing. I always thought it was

571
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: like some scary kind of Freddy Krueger thing.

572
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: Nah, it was like I got your buddy, I got

573
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: a nice warm blanket in a hot chocolate fire.

574
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: Come over here, just do this thing and be all better.

575
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 2: And as soon as I knew that.

576
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: I was like, God, damn, this is as distorted as

577
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: all the other shit in my head's trying to tell me.

578
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: And I started calling people.

579
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: I started, you know, just picking up the phone because

580
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: I knew that my brain was doing some weird stuff.

581
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. I've been in that situation a few times. And

582
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 3: when you start, for me, it's when I start to

583
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 3: be okay with going and not having any kind of

584
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: feeling like I would actually be okay with that then.

585
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 3: And I've felt that a few times for just like

586
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: five seconds it's enough, and then you go, oh, this

587
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 3: is not good.

588
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: I need a doctor.

589
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 3: I am closely. I'm okay with doing this.

590
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, my brain started to give this as a good idea,

591
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: and that for me it was like, if this is

592
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: showing up as a good idea, which I know it isn't,

593
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: my brain's probably not great and I'm seeing the world

594
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: in a very strange way.

595
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: I need help. I was very lucky, very very lucky

596
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: about that.

597
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting how you think you're doing fine and

598
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: as the challenges of your life change.

599
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: Like for me, it was when our youngest came along.

600
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: Suddenly I was like, oh, man, I do not have

601
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: the capacity here in all kinds of stuff.

602
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: So that just show we need to take a quick break.

603
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: We're back in a moment with your lane of duckage.

604
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: Therapy isn't like high school, like you don't graduate. You know,

605
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: there's always going to be more things. Do you see

606
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: it as a drag when those new things show up?

607
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: What do you see it?

608
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 3: No, I'd see it as a work in progress, not

609
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: at all. I've always said life is a roller coaster, right,

610
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 3: anything that you take on, whether it's work or whether

611
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: it's anything, everything's got it's up ups and downs. And

612
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 3: so does a healing journey as well. And people come

613
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 3: to me actually now with this question, well I've had

614
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 3: three good days, and how I've got a crappy day.

615
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 3: I don't feel good. Oh I've gone backwards, or oh

616
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 3: that means I've made no progress. You kind of feel

617
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 3: like every day has to be great. And I've really learned,

618
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 3: oh that's not the case. Actually, you can have those

619
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 3: bad days and that's absolutely normal, and things are going

620
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 3: to happen, things are going to pop up. Even if

621
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 3: they don't. Sometimes you're just going to feel lower than

622
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: other days. And I've learned that, you know, what if

623
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 3: today is all I can give is twenty percent, and

624
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 3: I'll give twenty percent. You know, if I could do

625
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: today is just get dressed and brush my teeth. Problem,

626
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 3: That's fine. I'll accept that as another day that I'm

627
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 3: here and I'm just going, you know what, I'm going

628
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 3: to get through today, survive today, and see what tomorrow brings.

629
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 3: So I'm a lot more chill about some of those

630
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 3: days that I don't feel maybe my best, Whereas I

631
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: used to panic about them and they used to be Yeah,

632
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 3: I now know that that's all part of the journey.

633
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: And I actually really what I do well now, which

634
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 3: I didn't do before because I had no self worth,

635
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 3: any confidence. That's what domestic violence is. Unfortunately, the consequences

636
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: is I give myself a patron on the back for

637
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: those good days, where I used to before kind of

638
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: almost go that's normal. No, it's not normal. I now

639
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: really recognize all the positive things, the good days, and

640
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 3: I go, you know, I'm grateful for that. Gratitude has

641
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: played a massive part in the way that I live

642
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: my life now, and actually practicing gratitude is massive. I

643
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 3: talk about a little bit in Fearless. In my new

644
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 3: book but it's just changed the way that I view

645
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 3: things and the smallest of things that I used to

646
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 3: go whatever, Now I realized just how big they are.

647
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,919
Speaker 2: If you're practicing, like everyone knows.

648
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: They might have seen it down in the school they

649
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: do the kids rop off, there's someone standing there by themselves,

650
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: and there's a ball machine at the serving machine at

651
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: the other end of the court, just like bang bang bang,

652
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: and they're just like practicing aforehand. For people who have

653
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: never understood what a gratitude practice is, it might seem

654
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: like what I've just got to sit around and be

655
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: thankful for stuff?

656
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: Like, how does it change things?

657
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 3: Well, when you've gone through depression, everything's gray. I call

658
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 3: it gray. You're almost like, don't have this power over

659
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 3: your thoughts and what's in your head and the way

660
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 3: that you see things. And what changed for me is

661
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 3: I was always I feel like and I'm very grateful

662
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 3: for that. For example, I was always humble, and I

663
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 3: was always very grateful for the things that I kind

664
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 3: of felt like I still had and poor me or

665
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 3: I went through this, that's what I also didn't want

666
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 3: with my story. That was important for me, but I

667
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: kind of lost the sense of oh, well, sunrise, this

668
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 3: is very simple, is beautiful to go and watch. I

669
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 3: didn't watch a sunrise or a sunset for twelve years

670
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 3: while I was battling you know, depression and mental health.

671
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 3: Even more, I think the big one as well. Maybe

672
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 3: it was a bit of an even turning point. My

673
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 3: late mother in law, she died four years ago from cancer,

674
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: and she was still actually a relatively young She was

675
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 3: sixty seven only, and she went quickly within seven months.

676
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 3: And she was a woman that went through a lot.

677
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 3: And I learned a lot actually from her how to

678
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 3: deal with things with grace and dignity. You would never

679
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 3: know she went through so much, but she opened her

680
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 3: home to anyone. She was one of the kindest people

681
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 3: you can meet. But there was this thing she had.

682
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 3: She would wake up every morning at four am to

683
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 3: have coffee. And I never underst do it because also

684
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 3: I didn't drink coffee, and it was her, not thirty minutes,

685
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 3: it was her two hours. So she would drink coffee.

686
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 3: She would write things down. We never knew what she

687
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 3: was writing down. No one ever read that, and it

688
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 3: was her thoughts. And she had a lot of these

689
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 3: scrap books, right, But it was her two hours and

690
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 3: I was like, I just don't get it, and I

691
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 3: started to slowly. But then when she passed away, for

692
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 3: some reason, as soon as she passed away, I started

693
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 3: drinking coffee. He also had to do with massive work

694
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 3: hours of eighteen hours on TV and stuff, but I

695
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 3: don't know. It was kind of like, well, she's now gone,

696
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 3: I'm going to start drinking coffee almost and I hated it.

697
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 3: I hated it first, but now I'm like, now I

698
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: get it. It was her moment of stop breeze, I'm alone.

699
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 3: I write my things down. Yeah, this is what I'm

700
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 3: going through. This is what I'm grateful for. She was

701
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 3: so grateful for that cup of coffee that I can't

702
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: tell you. It was like someone gave her I don't

703
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 3: know what. And that was eye opening for me when

704
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 3: we lost her, when she was gone and I didn't

705
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 3: have a person to look at and go, she's doing that.

706
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 3: And now I do it every single morning. I did

707
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:21,959
Speaker 3: it this morning, waking up at four am to catch

708
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: my fly just so that I can have my coffee

709
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 3: for an hour. I do it every single day, all

710
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 3: the time, doesn't matter if I'm traveling.

711
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 2: The journal in the morning as well. Yes, I do

712
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 2: tell me about that practice.

713
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: What do you do?

714
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 3: I will sometimes reflect on the day before and write.

715
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 3: I don't write massive amounts of like she used to

716
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 3: write a lot more than me, maybe some of the things,

717
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 3: some of the feelings from the day before, whether they're

718
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 3: you know, good things, or maybe some things that are

719
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 3: kind of have made me upsets or maybe not. And

720
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: then I write down three things I'm grateful for. So

721
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 3: I'll do it every single day, and you might be repetitive.

722
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 3: Some days might be the same thing, and that's all right.

723
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 3: But I think of three things that I'm grateful for

724
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 3: every single day. And one thing I do as well

725
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 3: when I'm extra tired, because I do work a lot

726
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 3: is and sometimes they can get overwhelming when you're fatigued.

727
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 3: And then I go, you know what, I'm grateful tired

728
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 3: because I'm actually grateful that I even have the opportunity

729
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 3: to work that much to be tired. So I try

730
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: and find that gratitude in every single thing I do.

731
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: When did you start to notice it was working.

732
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 3: I think it was not one particular moment. I would

733
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 3: say probout three four years ago already when I started

734
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 3: to really focus on the small things I really went

735
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 3: more into, like the mindful business perspective and that kind

736
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 3: of healing journey of Okay, what am I about? I

737
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: don't know whether it's also maybe a little bit of

738
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 3: the age thing where I started got closer to forty

739
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 3: I'm forty one now where I kind of went, how

740
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 3: do I to spend the rest of my life? Okay?

741
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 3: This is work? Okay, great? What do you want to

742
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 3: do in your off time? What do you want to

743
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 3: remember when you're you know what, if I have even

744
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 3: less than my mother in law, you don't know what's

745
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: around the corner? What do I want to remember? And

746
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 3: you know, when I get to the end of this journey,

747
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 3: if I have two minutes to think about it and

748
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 3: when I know it's the end, I'm going to remember

749
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 3: those coffees. Yeah, I'm going to remember that sunrise. I'm

750
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 3: going to remember that journaling. I'm going to remember spending

751
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 3: time with friends. I'm going to remember, you know, every

752
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 3: single because I like it. I like to put that

753
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 3: down as gratitude as every single trip I've taken and

754
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 3: the amount of that I travel because I love it.

755
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 3: Those are the moments I want to remember. So practicing gratitude. Yeah,

756
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 3: it's positivity. But there's a thing that I and I

757
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 3: and I actually covered that in my second book. There's

758
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 3: a difference though, between toxic positivity and a positive mindset.

759
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 3: So toxic positivity for me, you know everything's great, or

760
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 3: when someone tells you I just get over it, or

761
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 3: you know it's fine, like you know, like everything's great,

762
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 3: sunshine and rainbows. No, that I don't agree with every

763
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 3: day it's not sunshine and rainbows. But it's more, you know,

764
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 3: having that positive mindset where you go, Okay, I'm going

765
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 3: to look the best for the best in this bad situation. Okay,

766
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 3: it's not great, but what are the solutions or what

767
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 3: is the positive I can take out of it? How

768
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 3: can I minimize let's say, you know, the way I

769
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 3: feel or the damage or so on. So it's more

770
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,439
Speaker 3: looking for solutions. And then also it's those little things

771
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 3: where I didn't give myself enough credit for the good

772
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 3: things I did. For example, like I think you have

773
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 3: to be kind to yourself. So I would now go, okay,

774
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 3: you know what today, I did that well? I did

775
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 3: that well, I did that well. And I actually don't

776
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 3: realize that how much you know good I've done, but

777
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 3: I always used to focus on the things I did bad, always,

778
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 3: and even towards the end of my tennis career, because

779
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 3: I grew up in a household where everything had to

780
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 3: be perfect and it still wasn't enough. It can really

781
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 3: play with your mind. So I would hit ten unbelievable shots,

782
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 3: which in terms is a lot, and I would hit

783
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 3: one that would be like out by a few centimeters

784
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 3: and everything scrap. But you get into that mindset, and

785
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 3: that's also what depression does, right, So I was like,

786
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 3: oh my god, that's what I actually do. I don't

787
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 3: even recognize, let alone give myself credit for some of

788
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: these good things, little positive things or this or that.

789
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 3: It's always going to the bad, Like you said, it's

790
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 3: always going to the most catastrophic thing.

791
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: Ninety nine positive Instagram comments and one exactly person whose

792
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: parents must be called mister and missus one sixty five

793
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: four five three three four four Because you're a fuck

794
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: with everything ends.

795
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 3: So through therapy. We're talking about therapy. Yeah, my psychoachist

796
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 3: said to me, you've got anticipatory anxiety, right, So okay,

797
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 3: what's that kind of thought? I knew what it was

798
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 3: and I was right, but I was like, ah, okay,

799
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 3: so anticipating something.

800
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: To happen, well, because that's what kept you saying.

801
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 3: And he said exactly, But he said, you're always anticipating

802
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 3: the worst. You're always anticipating at a catastrophe because a

803
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 3: lot has happened, so you always go to the bad.

804
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 3: You always go to the worst. I had a few

805
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 3: years ago. I couldn't fly because I would always it

806
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 3: was done, the plane was crashing, that was it. So

807
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 3: I had massive anxiety flying, which I never had. And

808
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 3: then I had anxiety going to bed and falling asleep

809
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 3: because I thought I would die in my sleep. So

810
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 3: I had always anticipating this bad thing would happen. So

811
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 3: I was actually kind of we were working through that,

812
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 3: but there's you're always anticipating that.

813
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: How do you work with that?

814
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: How do you start to even come close If people

815
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: are listening and they go, oh, yeah, that's me, how

816
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: do you even begin to address that?

817
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 3: So I think for me, was going, Okay, control the controllables,

818
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 3: That's what I focused on. So what can I control?

819
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 3: I can control the way I react to it, but

820
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 3: I can't actually at the end of the day, in

821
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 3: a way I can't control if the plane's going to

822
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 3: go down or not, right, But I also can't anticipate

823
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: the worst because I don't know what's going to happen.

824
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: So a lot of it was going really being kind

825
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 3: of in the moment and going, well, just because certain

826
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 3: things have gone you know, the bad way in the past,

827
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean they will in the future, you know.

828
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 3: So a lot of that was stopping my brain and going,

829
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 3: you're catastrophized. Catastrophize here about something that actually hasn't happened.

830
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 3: What are the chances of that happening?

831
00:43:58,960 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: Right?

832
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: And even if some thing that's happened, you cannot control that, right.

833
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 3: So again that perfection has led me to go, I

834
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: want to control everything, but you can't control everything, right,

835
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 3: So you've got to let go of that. So a

836
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 3: lot of that was for me going not thinking too behind,

837
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 3: can't change that, not thinking too far ahead, we have

838
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 3: no idea what's ahead, and kind of more living you know,

839
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 3: living in the moment and going you know, like Massacostias said, once, Okay,

840
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 3: I know it can happen, but how many planes are

841
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 3: going to take off today and land millions?

842
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: Right?

843
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 3: How many going to crush.

844
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: You?

845
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 3: Know, I know, I know it can happen, but it's

846
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 3: you know, maybe two or three a year, right, So

847
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 3: what are your chances?

848
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: Right?

849
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 3: So I said, yeah, but it could be because look,

850
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 3: he could be what if tomorrow I can get hit

851
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 3: by a car. But you can't go and think about

852
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 3: what can happen or what could happen and always go

853
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: to the worst to go. You can also be great,

854
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 3: you might never get hit by a car. So I

855
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 3: think sometimes.

856
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: We Yeah, how do you find go to the worst?

857
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: Because what you're describing is probably quite a common response

858
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: and probably understandable for anyone who's been through anything that

859
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: looks like what you've been through. Do you have any

860
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: ways that you can use already? Anythings that you go

861
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 1: to when you're finding noticing something going on in your

862
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: body to get up into that observing mind to go.

863
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 2: I'll hang on a second. I'm doing that thing.

864
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 3: I get. I can feel when my anxiety kind of

865
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 3: starts to come on and I feel heaviness here, I

866
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 3: get quite right, all like I can't stop moving around

867
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 3: and my mind's racing. So I know when that's happening,

868
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 3: even the times my heart would go up a bit.

869
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 3: But for me The first thing is I got to

870
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 3: get out, So I get up out of the house,

871
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,959
Speaker 3: or if I'm working, I'll get out even for five

872
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: minutes fresh air. Because the first thing that I used

873
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 3: to do and when I was going through depression anxieties,

874
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 3: close my off in and lock everything and that's it.

875
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 3: So now I do the opposite, and I often find

876
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 3: when I go out and when I just give myself

877
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 3: a little bit of breathing space, and that really works.

878
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 3: Nature for me has been amazing. And to be honest

879
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 3: with you, i'd call a friend first thing as well.

880
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: You don't need I always say you don't need fifty friends.

881
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 3: You need one. You need one and you can do

882
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: anything one that believes in you and that will be

883
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 3: there for you. That's why I again like to reverse

884
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 3: and go, you can be that person for someone and

885
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 3: you can literally save your life.

886
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you.

887
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: Just need someone who's thinking about the world, not using

888
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: your brain to exactly and trust them enough. Yeah to go,

889
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: all right, then I'm going to believe that story because

890
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 1: this story doesn't end very well. I'm going to believe

891
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: what they say to me and then just sit here

892
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: for about an hour and not write anything. Send an email, makephone,

893
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: called them and book a plane ticket or buy anything.

894
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 1: It's going to sit here, we'll see someone.

895
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 3: Even if someone just calms you down a little bit

896
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 3: and listens or is they really makes a massive difference.

897
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 3: There are some of those things that I do that

898
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have done in the past. I have some

899
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 3: post it notes around my house that are very reassuring

900
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 3: about my self worth and about you know, just that

901
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 3: I'm doing well and you know, just yeah, I have

902
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 3: that on my fridge. I have it in my bathroom

903
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 3: as well. Sometimes I have it with me when I

904
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 3: travel in my little notes as well. Yeah, just little

905
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 3: things like that that help. But if I feel like

906
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 3: it's really getting you know, i'm tired as well, or

907
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 3: I'm working a lot, I do have a bit more

908
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 3: anxiety than normal, I will go straight away and see

909
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 3: my psychiatrist. That's very important to talk it out, to

910
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 3: talk it through. That happened actually a little bit this month.

911
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 3: I've been working a lash as well, and he did

912
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 3: tell me I work too much.

913
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: But.

914
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 2: You have the career you have because of but I've

915
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 2: got to find it.

916
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, you do have to find a balance. But for me,

917
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 3: it's also straight away going to you know, okay, I

918
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 3: feel like it's realizing, and going to okay, why do

919
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 3: I feel like that? What caused me? What was that trigger?

920
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 3: But then again I go straight, what I do today

921
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 3: is I got to one positive straight away, one positive

922
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 3: from today or one positive from tomorrow could be the

923
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 3: smallest thing. And then I go it, Actually, it might

924
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 3: sound like a cliche or oh, you know that's normal.

925
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: We do that anymore, No, we don't. I did a

926
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 3: little bit of coaching before I got into commentary, just

927
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 3: as a backup. I got my coaching degree with tennis,

928
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 3: and I coached for a couple of months, just to

929
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,280
Speaker 3: see the other side of when I was a player.

930
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 3: To a coach and you work with junior players and

931
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 3: they hit six, seven unbelievable shots, and then they missed

932
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 3: one and then start throwing their racket again, why are

933
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 3: you throwing your recket? You missed one, not what about

934
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 3: the other six shots? And they look at me going, yeah,

935
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 3: I don't, I don't. They're focusing on this one, right,

936
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 3: That one made everything worse. That one made all the

937
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 3: other six or seven bad. Right, So that actually made

938
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 3: me realize that I did that a lot as well. Myself.

939
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 3: I saw it and it was unbelievable to get out

940
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 3: and to see what other person.

941
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, yeah, what is it?

942
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds to me like a big part

943
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: of what you want to do from now is to

944
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: be of service to other people, and other people particularly

945
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: have been through something similar to you.

946
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: What do you get from that?

947
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: Look?

948
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 3: For me, it's rewarding to be able to know that

949
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 3: I potentially help someone. That's what I would like to

950
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 3: kind of also the legacy that I leave behind. That

951
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 3: was the reason I told my story, and that was

952
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 3: the reason I wrote my first book and then my second,

953
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 3: and I was never my own first priority in it.

954
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 3: That's why I said at the end of Unbreakable, if

955
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 3: I help one person, we're telling my story with this book,

956
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 3: you know, it's mission accomplished. For me. I had no

957
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,439
Speaker 3: idea that it will change my life. But I want

958
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 3: to be able to be someone that can stand up

959
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 3: for a lot of the tough topics, you know, tough

960
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 3: conversations and things that are still at times there's shame

961
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 3: and stigma when we talk about it. There's labels, there's judgment.

962
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 3: I do think we're getting better, but I want to

963
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 3: be someone that is known to have a voice and

964
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 3: to speak up. But for others, it's not about me.

965
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 3: This is about others, especially now where I kind of

966
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 3: even more so feel like this is about everyone else.

967
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,959
Speaker 3: This is about you know, maybe that person that will

968
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 3: see my social media and my Instagram which I call

969
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 3: it my community. You know, they can see a post

970
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 3: or they can see something and it can really help

971
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 3: them that day or change that day. Or maybe they

972
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 3: will read my book and it will help.

973
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 2: Them, you know.

974
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 3: So for me, I feel like I feel like I

975
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 3: want to be here for others, maybe give others a

976
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 3: bit of that comfort but belonging, feeling like they're not alone,

977
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 3: like they're understood. And I think that comes from me

978
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 3: not having those things right. So I now in a

979
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 3: way want to be able to give that to other people.

980
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 3: And I know I can't change the world to take

981
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 3: billion people. I get that, but if I can do

982
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 3: that for one person, I would be very happy. So yeah,

983
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 3: that's what I am kind of making my mission, my legacy,

984
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 3: what I want to be known for. But I also

985
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 3: want to be known that, you know, when my journey

986
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 3: is at the end, that people go she told a

987
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 3: story and you know what she told it with kindness.

988
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 3: She never had any blame or hate or resentment towards

989
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 3: anyone and takes I think it takes quite a bit

990
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 3: of work on yourself and power to do that. But

991
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 3: I want to show people that you can do that.

992
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 3: I want that I stand for kind of those really

993
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 3: good core values, but ultimately that I'm speaking up on

994
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 3: important issues to try and to try make a difference.

995
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: Blame is such a seductive thing, especially like whenever anything

996
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: your plane was late this morning, right, Blame is such

997
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: an easy thing to want to go to.

998
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: What happens when we're in blame? What do we deny ourselves?

999
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 3: Will you tell me?

1000
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: Well?

1001
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: For me, if I'm in blame, I'm not taking responsibility

1002
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: for the part that I played in it.

1003
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 2: I don't want to see it and.

1004
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: That can even be well, I chose this airline, I

1005
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: chose this day. I had this unreasonable expectation when I

1006
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,959
Speaker 1: looked at the weather that my plane would leave on time.

1007
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 2: That's my that's my part in it.

1008
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 3: You know, I think that I'll go deeper than that.

1009
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:51,800
Speaker 3: Like for me, I think that you would absolutely understand

1010
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 3: people that have been through incredible abuse or especially I

1011
00:52:56,719 --> 00:53:02,320
Speaker 3: did some work actually and mentored a couple of women

1012
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,720
Speaker 3: and girls that have been through sexual abuse and even rape,

1013
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 3: and I would absolutely and I do absolutely understand them

1014
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 3: blaming and feeling that resentment and hate and I can't

1015
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 3: imagine how they feel. And I still, somehow though, try

1016
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 3: to go but go to the next level. And this

1017
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 3: is unfortunately going to happen to someone unfortunately happens a lot.

1018
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 3: But leave that and that kind of bad experience that

1019
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 3: was filled with violence and let's say hate, and you

1020
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 3: turn it into something good, into you being an amazing person,

1021
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 3: a survivor, a thriver. I like to go off of

1022
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 3: a motto victim, survivor, thriver. I like to say that

1023
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 3: about myself. But that's where I go. You know, you

1024
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 3: can deal with things, and you can go through the

1025
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 3: most horrific things, and you can deal with it with

1026
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 3: so much kindness and grace and dignity. And it takes

1027
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 3: a big person to be able to do that, and

1028
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,280
Speaker 3: it's not easy. And like I said, I absolutely understand

1029
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 3: so many you know, victims and survivors, and yeah, it's

1030
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 3: a horrific thing. From what I've also heard from a

1031
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:38,879
Speaker 3: lot of girls and women that I've spoken to about that. Yeah,

1032
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 3: and your heart breaks, but I always say, you know what,

1033
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 3: you can change the way that you feel about that,

1034
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 3: And you're absolutely right to have such horrible feelings. It

1035
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 3: stays with you forever. But the amazing and beautiful thing

1036
00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 3: that you can do is be the opposite and be

1037
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 3: a good kind person that can actually turn that into

1038
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 3: maybe something helpful and into helping others, for example, because.

1039
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: Then you're you're the one who's making the choices about

1040
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 1: what it is you do with your life and the

1041
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: way you are to others, rather than a response to

1042
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: someone who doesn't give a shit about you making the

1043
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: call on how you go through your day.

1044
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 3: I also think that it's you take you take your

1045
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 3: power back. Yes, yes, I think you take it back

1046
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 3: by going, you know what, I'm going to be kind,

1047
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 3: I'm going to be good. I Am not going to

1048
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 3: be anything like that, not even one percent of me.

1049
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 3: And I think that that's how I always kind of go.

1050
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 3: That's the way to live, let's say, a happy life

1051
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 3: or with joy and have those moments of joy and

1052
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 3: happy days is to not have hate, resentment, and bitterness.

1053
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 3: That's those are very strong emotions, and I've seen people

1054
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 3: have them. My father was like that. I've seen it

1055
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 3: firsthand for whatever reason, and I really believe that even

1056
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 3: the worst of circumstances by taking them, taking that and going,

1057
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,879
Speaker 3: you know what, my power is actually to turn it

1058
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 3: into something good. That's where you do amazing things. And

1059
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 3: you know, you don't just save your own life that way,

1060
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 3: but others as well. But you take your power back

1061
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 3: in a positive way.

1062
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: And you know, yes, hurt people, hurt people, Yes, I

1063
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 1: get it, I understand. And what you're describing is you

1064
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: also get to have this ongoing role of like and

1065
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: you know what, that.

1066
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 2: Shit's going to stop with me.

1067
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm not going to let this person affect anybody else

1068
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: through my behaviors that they have. I'm going to do

1069
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 1: the world a favor and end that energy here.

1070
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 3: And I am actually you know, you said to me

1071
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 3: what I want kind of my legacy to be and

1072
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 3: live behind and kind of stand up for others and

1073
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 3: all that. But to be honest, I'm very proud of

1074
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,479
Speaker 3: the fact that I'm the opposite of my father that

1075
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 3: what you just said, that I've been able to stop

1076
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 3: that darkness and being you know, for whatever is, and

1077
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 3: being bitter and resentful and having that hate in him

1078
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 3: as a being and violence and so on. I am, yeah,

1079
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 3: I have to. From a personal level, I would say

1080
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,439
Speaker 3: I'm proud of that. And I could have easily been

1081
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 3: someone that is very resentful and hates, you know. And

1082
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 3: I actually even say I don't hate my father. I don't.

1083
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 3: I never want. Hate is such a strong feeling and word,

1084
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 3: but also towards anybody. No matter what, I will always go,

1085
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,479
Speaker 3: you know what, I'll do one better, I'll be good

1086
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 3: because I want to be good and I think it's

1087
00:57:58,200 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 3: the way for it.

1088
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 2: I don't know how often people cry when they chat

1089
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 2: to you, Lanna. I'm guessing it's a bit. Oh fuck man.

1090
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: He's such an extraordinary human being. And the gift you're

1091
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: given us by choosing to.

1092
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 4: Do this is a huge You could have not done this,

1093
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 4: but you did, and it's a part of it's a

1094
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 4: part of showing that, Yeah, yes, you know how terrible

1095
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 4: the thing that happened to me is.

1096
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 2: And watch it doesn't just have to be me doing this.

1097
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 2: That's unbelievable. Thanks appreciate it, Thanks for coming around.

1098
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're in the world doing the work you're

1099
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: doing and changing a lot of people's lives.

1100
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very kind.

1101
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 2: That was Lena Dokic.

1102
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: She's actually written two incredible books, Unbreakable and Fearless. I'll

1103
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: pop a link in the show notes for both books.

1104
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 1: If that story was helpful to you, perhaps you may

1105
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: want to check out Tracy Hall's episode was just a

1106
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: couple of weeks back.

1107
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 2: I'll put that in the show notes as well.

1108
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 1: It's another very powerful story of recovery and triumph, but

1109
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: from a completely different angle. If this episode was useful

1110
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: for you, please share this episode, Share the show with

1111
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 1: somebody you think would enjoy it. Please do follow, subscribe, rate,

1112
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: and review. All those things really help the show. They

1113
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: really help us keep the lights on. It doesn't cost

1114
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: you any money, helps us own cash, helps us pay

1115
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: the people that make the show, helps me put food

1116
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: in the fridge and pay them all which so it's

1117
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: really useful, and you could do all that by just going, hey,

1118
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: check out this episode. Piece of Cake doesn't cost you

1119
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: a thing. I'm back here on Friday. If you need

1120
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: me between now and then, just drop us a DM.

1121
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: I'll put the Instagram link in the show notes, or

1122
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: you can just find me on the website.

1123
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, for being a part of it. I'll

1124
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 2: see you then.

1125
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: This episode was brought to you by Andy Marron audio

1126
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: post production, mikey Ward on video post production, Jazz Spent

1127
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: and Menzies on copy tow Hyater on music. My producer

1128
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: is Bree Steel. My executive function assistant is Monica Chapman.

1129
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. For every episode ever,

1130
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: they had to get on the mailing list store. To

1131
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: get and touch through the contact one, just head to

1132
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: Oshigensburg dot com. That's Oshagensburg dot com.

1133
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 2: See you next time.