1 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:06,240 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:11,610 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. After a very ordinary 2022, bonds roared back this 3 00:00:11,610 --> 00:00:14,730 Sean Aylmer: year with a record amount of money now tracking bond 4 00:00:14,790 --> 00:00:17,819 Sean Aylmer: ETFs. We're talking about exchange traded funds. It's not the 5 00:00:17,820 --> 00:00:20,970 Sean Aylmer: only good performer from the last 12 months among the 6 00:00:20,970 --> 00:00:24,900 Sean Aylmer: ETFs. Some of the tech ETFs are right up there as well, while ETFs tracking 7 00:00:24,900 --> 00:00:28,710 Sean Aylmer: Chinese stocks did poorly along with certain commodities. I wanted 8 00:00:28,710 --> 00:00:30,150 Sean Aylmer: to take a look at some of these trends over 9 00:00:30,150 --> 00:00:32,370 Sean Aylmer: the last 12 months and what this financial year might 10 00:00:32,370 --> 00:00:34,979 Sean Aylmer: look like. Remember, this is general information only. You should 11 00:00:34,979 --> 00:00:38,790 Sean Aylmer: seek professional advice before making any investment decisions. Chris Brycki 12 00:00:38,790 --> 00:00:41,940 Sean Aylmer: is the founder and CEO of online investment advisor Stockspot, 13 00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:46,888 Sean Aylmer: which has released the 2023 Stockspot ETF Report. Chris, welcome back to 14 00:00:46,889 --> 00:00:47,580 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed. 15 00:00:48,090 --> 00:00:49,619 Chris Brycki: Thank you, Sean. Always good to be on. 16 00:00:50,459 --> 00:00:52,409 Sean Aylmer: Now, I know most of our listeners know, but in 17 00:00:52,409 --> 00:00:55,410 Sean Aylmer: case we have new listeners who don't quite understand what 18 00:00:55,410 --> 00:00:59,280 Sean Aylmer: an exchange traded fund is, just the thumbnail sketch of 19 00:00:59,280 --> 00:00:59,880 Sean Aylmer: how they work. 20 00:01:00,930 --> 00:01:02,910 Chris Brycki: Yeah, sure. I'm sure you've always got new listeners. So a 21 00:01:03,059 --> 00:01:07,649 Chris Brycki: ETF is just a wrapper managed fund or it's something you 22 00:01:07,650 --> 00:01:09,839 Chris Brycki: can buy in the stock exchange, but rather than buying 23 00:01:09,839 --> 00:01:13,860 Chris Brycki: an individual share, an ETF gives you access to hundreds or 24 00:01:13,860 --> 00:01:16,709 Chris Brycki: even thousands of different shares. And so you can buy 25 00:01:16,709 --> 00:01:20,100 Chris Brycki: an ETF to track a different market like the S&P/ASX 200 26 00:01:21,870 --> 00:01:24,809 Chris Brycki: or the S&P 500 in the US, or it could be 27 00:01:24,809 --> 00:01:28,199 Chris Brycki: a different investment entirely like government bonds or gold or 28 00:01:28,199 --> 00:01:31,650 Chris Brycki: something like that. So they're just great building blocks for 29 00:01:31,650 --> 00:01:33,000 Chris Brycki: investment portfolios. 30 00:01:33,810 --> 00:01:38,370 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So bond ETFs. I've got to say, slightly ashamed 31 00:01:38,370 --> 00:01:41,130 Sean Aylmer: until I thought about it, I always think of equities, 32 00:01:41,130 --> 00:01:43,889 Sean Aylmer: I suppose, and then commodities and things like that. Not 33 00:01:43,889 --> 00:01:47,609 Sean Aylmer: much about bonds. So people though, were jumping back into 34 00:01:47,609 --> 00:01:51,240 Sean Aylmer: bond ETFs. Just tell us why bonds performed so poorly 35 00:01:51,270 --> 00:01:53,040 Sean Aylmer: last year and then what's happened this year? 36 00:01:54,090 --> 00:01:56,610 Chris Brycki: Well, bond ETFs I think haven't been the most popular, 37 00:01:56,610 --> 00:01:58,739 Chris Brycki: and you're probably not the only one that hadn't heard 38 00:01:58,740 --> 00:02:01,320 Chris Brycki: about them before because they had gone under the radar 39 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,379 Chris Brycki: and definitely global share and Australian share ETFs were all 40 00:02:04,379 --> 00:02:07,800 Chris Brycki: the rage in the last 10 years. Bond ETFs then 41 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,070 Chris Brycki: had a horrible year of performance last year, and the reason 42 00:02:11,070 --> 00:02:13,110 Chris Brycki: for that was that bonds tend to move in the 43 00:02:13,110 --> 00:02:16,919 Chris Brycki: opposite direction of interest rates, and particularly when interest rates 44 00:02:16,950 --> 00:02:21,359 Chris Brycki: are increasing and they're surprising people and increasing faster than 45 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,200 Chris Brycki: expected, bonds do terribly. So last year a lot of 46 00:02:25,710 --> 00:02:29,340 Chris Brycki: very safe government bonds fell by 10 or 11% for the year, 47 00:02:29,460 --> 00:02:31,919 Chris Brycki: which is quite an unusual year for bonds. It's more 48 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,050 Chris Brycki: common for share markets to have a year like that. 49 00:02:34,050 --> 00:02:36,750 Chris Brycki: But bonds hadn't seen a year like that for about 50 00:02:36,750 --> 00:02:40,139 Chris Brycki: 20 years or so, and this year is a bit 51 00:02:40,139 --> 00:02:42,419 Chris Brycki: of a reverse of that. Now that interest rates are 52 00:02:42,450 --> 00:02:46,410 Chris Brycki: high, bonds are actually paying quite a good yield or 53 00:02:46,410 --> 00:02:50,429 Chris Brycki: return in the range of 4.5, or for riskier bonds, closer 54 00:02:50,429 --> 00:02:53,579 Chris Brycki: to 5.5%. And so we're actually seeing the opposite this 55 00:02:53,580 --> 00:02:55,620 Chris Brycki: year. We're seeing a lot of money going into bond 56 00:02:55,650 --> 00:02:58,679 Chris Brycki: ETFs as opposed to leaving money in the bank. 57 00:02:59,549 --> 00:03:04,560 Sean Aylmer: And so a government bond ETF particularly is probably safer than 58 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,380 Sean Aylmer: a bank deposit, but that's often how people compare them, 59 00:03:07,380 --> 00:03:07,770 Sean Aylmer: don't they? 60 00:03:08,550 --> 00:03:11,668 Chris Brycki: Yeah, I wouldn't say safer, although in the US recently, 61 00:03:11,669 --> 00:03:13,770 Chris Brycki: that's actually been one of the drivers of money going 62 00:03:13,770 --> 00:03:16,320 Chris Brycki: into these sorts of products because a few actual banks 63 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,829 Chris Brycki: have gone belly up and therefore the deposits aren't necessarily 64 00:03:19,830 --> 00:03:23,639 Chris Brycki: safe. Here in Australia, we've got a pretty strong banking 65 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:28,380 Chris Brycki: system and also some either explicit or implicit guarantees, particularly 66 00:03:28,380 --> 00:03:31,320 Chris Brycki: behind the large banks by the government. So deposits are 67 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,980 Chris Brycki: pretty safe. Government bonds are also very safe, although their 68 00:03:34,980 --> 00:03:38,040 Chris Brycki: prices vary compared to deposits. So when you put your 69 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,440 Chris Brycki: money on deposit, you earn the interest and the capital 70 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,260 Chris Brycki: part that you put in doesn't change. The difference with 71 00:03:43,260 --> 00:03:45,479 Chris Brycki: bonds is as interest rates go up and down, the 72 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,640 Chris Brycki: actual capital that you put in goes up and down. 73 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,849 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so that's a bond ETF. They're more popular at 74 00:03:50,849 --> 00:03:54,299 Sean Aylmer: the moment. You've explained why. What about outside bond ETFs? 75 00:03:54,299 --> 00:03:58,890 Sean Aylmer: I think best performing according to the Stockspot ETF Report were 76 00:03:58,950 --> 00:04:00,570 Sean Aylmer: the cryptocurrency ETFs. 77 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,599 Chris Brycki: Well, that's right. And every year I'd say that it 78 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:05,730 Chris Brycki: changes which are the best and worst performing. And I 79 00:04:05,730 --> 00:04:08,400 Chris Brycki: don't think listeners should put too much emphasis on it, 80 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,770 Chris Brycki: because I mean, this year the best performers were actually 81 00:04:10,770 --> 00:04:13,290 Chris Brycki: some of the worst performers the year before and vice 82 00:04:13,290 --> 00:04:16,350 Chris Brycki: versa. Some of the worst performers this year, including the 83 00:04:16,350 --> 00:04:19,230 Chris Brycki: oil ETF, were the best performers the year before. So 84 00:04:19,500 --> 00:04:22,049 Chris Brycki: these things tend to come and go. But yeah, this 85 00:04:22,050 --> 00:04:25,349 Chris Brycki: year, the popular ETFs that had great performance were some 86 00:04:25,349 --> 00:04:28,049 Chris Brycki: of the technology ETFs, and that was because the tech 87 00:04:28,049 --> 00:04:29,879 Chris Brycki: sector had a very bad year last year and had 88 00:04:29,879 --> 00:04:32,729 Chris Brycki: a great comeback over the last particularly nine months or 89 00:04:32,730 --> 00:04:36,599 Chris Brycki: so. We saw the Bitcoin and Ethereum ETFs, which were new ones that 90 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,060 Chris Brycki: launched about 18 months ago, actually have a good year. 91 00:04:39,450 --> 00:04:41,580 Chris Brycki: And then some of these ETFs that are related to 92 00:04:41,610 --> 00:04:45,509 Chris Brycki: artificial intelligence and semiconductors and some of the technology that 93 00:04:45,509 --> 00:04:47,790 Chris Brycki: goes into AI also had great performance. 94 00:04:48,150 --> 00:04:49,950 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Chris, we'll be back in a minute. 95 00:04:55,950 --> 00:05:01,529 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Chris Brycki, CEO of Stockspot. Are people becoming 96 00:05:01,529 --> 00:05:06,209 Sean Aylmer: increasingly attracted to ETFs in the current environment or otherwise? 97 00:05:06,779 --> 00:05:09,118 Chris Brycki: Oh, they absolutely are. So even at the start of 98 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:10,950 Chris Brycki: the year in Australia, I think there was something like 99 00:05:10,980 --> 00:05:16,139 Chris Brycki: 133 or 135 billion in ETFs. Now that I should point out 100 00:05:16,139 --> 00:05:20,368 Chris Brycki: is massively up from even when I started Stockspot 10 years 101 00:05:20,370 --> 00:05:22,650 Chris Brycki: ago, there was only about 10 billion in ETFs. So 102 00:05:22,650 --> 00:05:25,979 Chris Brycki: they've grown by about 15 times in 10 years, which 103 00:05:25,980 --> 00:05:29,099 Chris Brycki: just shows how popular they're becoming. But even since the 104 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:32,488 Chris Brycki: start of the year, Sean, they've grown from 135 to 150 billion. 105 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:32,580 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 106 00:05:32,820 --> 00:05:36,178 Chris Brycki: So another 15 billion has gone into them. To put 107 00:05:36,178 --> 00:05:39,059 Chris Brycki: that into context, the Australian share market, the total size 108 00:05:39,059 --> 00:05:42,479 Chris Brycki: is about 1.6 trillion. And so ETFs now make up 109 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,820 Chris Brycki: about 10% of the market size. 110 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:46,860 Sean Aylmer: It's a big chunk. I mean, the reason I asked 111 00:05:46,860 --> 00:05:50,250 Sean Aylmer: the question, you mentioned AI and technology. The thing about 112 00:05:50,250 --> 00:05:52,799 Sean Aylmer: ETFs I suppose that I like is that it's really hard to 113 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,879 Sean Aylmer: pick which AI stock to go for or which individual 114 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,309 Sean Aylmer: equity to go for in a trend. And that's kind 115 00:05:59,309 --> 00:06:01,049 Sean Aylmer: of where ETFs come into their own, I think. 116 00:06:01,770 --> 00:06:04,380 Chris Brycki: That's right. I mean, Stockspot focused more on the broad 117 00:06:04,380 --> 00:06:07,950 Chris Brycki: market ETFs that give you access to technology and AI, 118 00:06:07,950 --> 00:06:10,680 Chris Brycki: but also lots of other sectors like resources and banks 119 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,770 Chris Brycki: and telcos. There are, however, a lot more ETFs these 120 00:06:13,770 --> 00:06:16,289 Chris Brycki: days that give you very specific exposure just to one 121 00:06:16,289 --> 00:06:18,988 Chris Brycki: very niche area of the market. They're often known as 122 00:06:18,990 --> 00:06:21,990 Chris Brycki: thematic ETFs, and some of the ones I named before 123 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:26,310 Chris Brycki: like there's a Global X FANG ETF and a semiconductor ETF, 124 00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:29,250 Chris Brycki: they're examples of these where they really only buy a 125 00:06:29,250 --> 00:06:32,488 Chris Brycki: basket of shares in a very specific sector. And like 126 00:06:32,490 --> 00:06:34,829 Chris Brycki: you say, the benefit is that rather than just picking 127 00:06:34,830 --> 00:06:37,710 Chris Brycki: an individual share where that company may go well, but 128 00:06:37,710 --> 00:06:39,900 Chris Brycki: it may be one that doesn't go well and goes 129 00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:42,630 Chris Brycki: out of business, you are diversifying and spreading your money 130 00:06:42,630 --> 00:06:45,750 Chris Brycki: across multiple. And you hope that over the long run, 131 00:06:45,750 --> 00:06:49,739 Chris Brycki: the successful ones stay in that particular ETF and keep 132 00:06:49,740 --> 00:06:52,079 Chris Brycki: on growing, and you accept that some of the ones 133 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,599 Chris Brycki: that are losers will drop out. So you do benefit 134 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,669 Chris Brycki: from that in an ETF. And I think just as 135 00:06:56,670 --> 00:06:58,380 Chris Brycki: you pointed out, that one of the reasons why people 136 00:06:58,380 --> 00:07:00,720 Chris Brycki: are buying these rather than direct shares is because you 137 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,989 Chris Brycki: can access these themes with a lot less risk than 138 00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:04,860 Chris Brycki: you would've in the past. 139 00:07:05,580 --> 00:07:07,650 Sean Aylmer: Explain what an active ETF is. 140 00:07:08,428 --> 00:07:11,580 Chris Brycki: Sure. So an active ETF, rather than tracking your market 141 00:07:11,580 --> 00:07:14,460 Chris Brycki: index, like some of the ones I just mentioned earlier, 142 00:07:14,730 --> 00:07:18,690 Chris Brycki: actually is essentially an actively managed fund where a fund 143 00:07:18,690 --> 00:07:21,240 Chris Brycki: manager is trying to pick which stocks should go in 144 00:07:21,420 --> 00:07:23,730 Chris Brycki: and trying to time when to buy and sell them. 145 00:07:23,790 --> 00:07:26,190 Chris Brycki: So you're not just following the market, you're trusting a 146 00:07:26,190 --> 00:07:30,660 Chris Brycki: person to do that for you. Now, historically, active funds 147 00:07:30,660 --> 00:07:33,990 Chris Brycki: were typically accessed in Australia through a managed fund format, 148 00:07:33,990 --> 00:07:35,550 Chris Brycki: or some of the listeners might have heard of a 149 00:07:35,550 --> 00:07:39,540 Chris Brycki: listed investment company or a LIC. However, there's been a 150 00:07:39,540 --> 00:07:42,359 Chris Brycki: lot of growth over the last few years by funds 151 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,640 Chris Brycki: that have put these sort of structures within an ETF. 152 00:07:45,330 --> 00:07:47,520 Chris Brycki: The big benefit of this is the ETFs are listed on 153 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,550 Chris Brycki: the stock exchange. So rather than having to buy managed 154 00:07:50,550 --> 00:07:53,820 Chris Brycki: funds through a platform or a financial advisor, you can 155 00:07:53,820 --> 00:07:56,489 Chris Brycki: buy them on the ASX. And the other big benefit 156 00:07:56,490 --> 00:08:00,330 Chris Brycki: is compared to listed investment companies where they often trade 157 00:08:00,330 --> 00:08:03,059 Chris Brycki: at a big discount to what their value is, and 158 00:08:03,059 --> 00:08:07,140 Chris Brycki: so that there's a lot of uncertainty, these managed fund ETFs 159 00:08:07,350 --> 00:08:10,800 Chris Brycki: or active ETFs trade very close to their true value 160 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,720 Chris Brycki: all the time. So there's been a lot of these 161 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,960 Chris Brycki: launched. I think at the moment, about 17% of all 162 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,080 Chris Brycki: of the ETF money are active ETFs, but based on our 163 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,559 Chris Brycki: research, they tend not to perform that well compared to 164 00:08:22,559 --> 00:08:25,050 Chris Brycki: the index ETFs on average. So there's always going to 165 00:08:25,050 --> 00:08:27,630 Chris Brycki: be a few superstars that do well, but most of 166 00:08:27,630 --> 00:08:31,230 Chris Brycki: these actually perform quite poorly. And that's why most of 167 00:08:31,230 --> 00:08:33,780 Chris Brycki: the money going into ETFs is actually going into these 168 00:08:33,780 --> 00:08:37,020 Chris Brycki: low cost passive funds, which are the ones that we're 169 00:08:37,020 --> 00:08:38,100 Chris Brycki: recommending to clients. 170 00:08:38,940 --> 00:08:44,280 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I mean, you've said that almost 10% of the 171 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,679 Sean Aylmer: market is ETFs. Where do you think it goes from 172 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,660 Sean Aylmer: here over the next year, two, five years? 173 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,830 Chris Brycki: Well, compared to 1% 10 years ago, 10% sounds large, but 174 00:08:52,830 --> 00:08:55,080 Chris Brycki: actually Australia's a long way behind the rest of the 175 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,020 Chris Brycki: world in terms of the adoption of ETFs and passive 176 00:08:58,020 --> 00:09:01,260 Chris Brycki: investing generally. So where we're at 10%, I believe in 177 00:09:01,260 --> 00:09:05,160 Chris Brycki: the US, it's something like 25% now, and that's just ETFs. 178 00:09:05,309 --> 00:09:08,160 Chris Brycki: When it comes to passive or index investing, generally it's 179 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,480 Chris Brycki: closer to 50%. So I think as investors become better 180 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,739 Chris Brycki: and better educated in Australia and continue to see that these 181 00:09:16,740 --> 00:09:19,800 Chris Brycki: products perform better than other products out there, you're just 182 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,960 Chris Brycki: going to continue to see a weight of money moving 183 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,218 Chris Brycki: from direct share picking and active fund managers, which has 184 00:09:26,220 --> 00:09:29,639 Chris Brycki: been the traditional places where people would invest into these ETFs. 185 00:09:29,639 --> 00:09:32,370 Chris Brycki: And I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years time, 186 00:09:32,370 --> 00:09:36,540 Chris Brycki: we've gone from 10 to 25%, which means hundreds of 187 00:09:36,540 --> 00:09:38,340 Chris Brycki: billions more going into these products. 188 00:09:38,940 --> 00:09:40,950 Sean Aylmer: So just if someone wants to buy an ETF, what 189 00:09:40,950 --> 00:09:45,150 Sean Aylmer: are the steps that they should take, Chris? And if 190 00:09:45,150 --> 00:09:46,920 Sean Aylmer: I want to buy one that reflects the market, that's 191 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,958 Sean Aylmer: one option, but then if I want to buy one 192 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,810 Sean Aylmer: that reflects gold or commodities, how do I go about it? 193 00:09:52,799 --> 00:09:54,990 Chris Brycki: You've got two options, Sean. So one is you can 194 00:09:55,050 --> 00:09:57,510 Chris Brycki: find an online stockbroker, and there's plenty of them these 195 00:09:57,510 --> 00:09:59,578 Chris Brycki: days and set up an account and then pick your 196 00:09:59,580 --> 00:10:03,090 Chris Brycki: own ETFs. So there's about 250 listed now, and you 197 00:10:03,090 --> 00:10:05,669 Chris Brycki: can find a list on the ASX website and download 198 00:10:05,670 --> 00:10:07,740 Chris Brycki: it and then try and pick and choose. And if 199 00:10:07,740 --> 00:10:10,378 Chris Brycki: you do that, you've obviously got to work out which 200 00:10:10,379 --> 00:10:12,990 Chris Brycki: assets you want in your portfolio, what per cent in each, 201 00:10:12,990 --> 00:10:17,400 Chris Brycki: which products, because even within Australian shares, there's 20 or 30 different 202 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,220 Chris Brycki: ETFs to choose from and then decide how you manage them. 203 00:10:20,220 --> 00:10:23,219 Chris Brycki: So that's very popular, it's, I would say, the do 204 00:10:23,219 --> 00:10:26,069 Chris Brycki: it yourself option where you pick and choose. The other 205 00:10:26,070 --> 00:10:27,870 Chris Brycki: option is you find someone to do it for you. 206 00:10:27,870 --> 00:10:30,660 Chris Brycki: And these days there's quite a few services out there 207 00:10:30,660 --> 00:10:33,240 Chris Brycki: that offer that. The business I set up does that 208 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,880 Chris Brycki: where we try and help people select the right ones 209 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,639 Chris Brycki: and manage them for you, and then do all of 210 00:10:38,639 --> 00:10:42,900 Chris Brycki: the rebalancing and management of that portfolio. So yeah, you 211 00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:44,999 Chris Brycki: can choose either a do it yourself or an outsourced 212 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,729 Chris Brycki: option when it comes to managing ETF portfolios. 213 00:10:48,540 --> 00:10:50,370 Sean Aylmer: Chris, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 214 00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:52,650 Chris Brycki: Always a pleasure. Thanks for having me back. 215 00:10:53,250 --> 00:10:56,460 Sean Aylmer: That's Chris Brycki, founder and CEO of online investment advisor, 216 00:10:56,460 --> 00:10:59,130 Sean Aylmer: Stockspot. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Remember, 217 00:10:59,130 --> 00:11:01,620 Sean Aylmer: this is general information only, and you should seek professional 218 00:11:01,620 --> 00:11:05,160 Sean Aylmer: advice before making any investment decisions. Join us every morning 219 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,230 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's best 220 00:11:07,230 --> 00:11:09,990 Sean Aylmer: business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.