1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: I'll get a team. 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 2: Welcome to another installment of the project. That's you, It's Jumbo, 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 2: it's Fatty Harps, It's Craig Anthony, half of the kid 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 2: from the Country. 5 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: It's Francis. Is it Patrick? 6 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 3: Michael Patrick Michael. 7 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Francis Michael? Fuck? That's the most Catholic name ever. Francis Michael. 8 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 2: Peter Leech is one of those a what we Catholics 9 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: called we all of a sudden, I'm a Catholic? 10 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: Is what? Really? It's one of those a confirmation. 11 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 3: Yes, Peter, you had to choose it. I chose Peter 12 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 3: because Peter, you know, it's sort of like these days 13 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 3: it could be kind of cool because Peter was the 14 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 3: rock of the church on which the church was got 15 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 3: so I was kind of like the rock, as in, 16 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 3: were you though. 17 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 2: I don't I don't know that you were the rock 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: that Jesus built his church on. But all right, yeah, well, 19 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 2: so for the non Catholics, for the non Catholics that 20 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,319 Speaker 2: are like, what the fuck? So when you're when you're 21 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: about thirteen, you undergo this thing or you go through this, 22 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: but what is it a ritual. 23 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: Process of right to fuck? 24 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 2: Some some Catholic kind of called a confirmation and you 25 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: get to you get to choose the name, and you 26 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: have a you have a name that goes on. 27 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: You know. So I'm Craig Anthony. 28 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 2: Mine was meant to be Mark, and he called me Paul, 29 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 2: and I'm like, so I was confused. So anyway, he goes, 30 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: I confirm you Craig Anthony Paul. I'm like, Champ, that's 31 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: the wrong name. But I didn't obviously say that because 32 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: I was fourteen year old in is Q a fat 33 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 2: kid or thirteen, So I just went right Paul. 34 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 3: You had to. It had to be like an Apostles 35 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 3: name or a Saints dame. It couldn't just become Francis Michael, 36 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 3: Dante Leech. She couldn't go Francis Michael, Muhammad or Leech. 37 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: You had yeah, oh yeah, yeah, Craig Anthony Shakira. 38 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 39 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 3: To be much more popular if you could choose like 40 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 3: a really hip name. 41 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: Oh, I'll tell you what. There are a whole range 42 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: of reasons. Let's not start on the Catholic Church. But 43 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: it's just if anyone's got some fucking marketing and branding 44 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 2: and pr work to do. Anyway, let's not open that door. 45 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 2: How are you well, I know how you are. 46 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: You're busy? 47 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 3: Are you all okay? But you know, I think you 48 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 3: and I are roll in the same boat at the 49 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 3: moment without you know, let's talk about the thing that 50 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: we've been talking about when we haven't been talking on here, 51 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 3: and that is mortality and aging, and it's everywhere at 52 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 3: the moment, Craig, I mean, you know, you know my 53 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 3: love politics, and suddenly aging immortality has become not just 54 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 3: a national conversation United States, it's the global conversation. As 55 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 3: you watch Joe Biden right before our eyes, President Joe Biden, 56 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 3: right before hours deal with being an eighty one going 57 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 3: an eighty teen year old man himself in real time 58 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 3: on the world stage, coming to terms or in fact 59 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: not coming to terms with the fact that age, despite 60 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 3: all of his achievements and all the things that he 61 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 3: thinks he can do, is wearing him down. And it 62 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 3: just reminds us all the mortality comes to everyone, and 63 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 3: you and I both dealing with that in our own 64 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 3: lives with our parents at the moment, and it's the 65 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 3: one road we might take as many different parts in 66 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 3: life as we choose that everybody will have a different 67 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 3: maleways for their life, you know, which you know, no 68 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 3: matter how many things are similar and how many things 69 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: we shared, the will always be a bit like our 70 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 3: DNA or you know, there'll be a different road. We've 71 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 3: all got a different road, but it all ends at 72 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 3: the same spot. And that's a really confronting thing. And 73 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 3: I think that's you know, the conversation around the Biden 74 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 3: experience about him and what his capacity is. And basically 75 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 3: they're saying every we're just falling short of the fact, well, 76 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 3: he's going to die soon, so it can't be president. 77 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 3: No one's going to say that, right because mortality is 78 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 3: to go. You can't say that. But that's what the 79 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 3: subtext is, and we're all dealing with it in real time, 80 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: and the consequences are just you know, go Gainshawan. It's 81 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 3: such an interesting and really freaky scary. 82 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,839 Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm fascinated from you know, because I'm 83 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: fascinated with the brain and the mind, and I'm fascinated 84 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: obviously with the body. 85 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: And we talk about this thing. 86 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: There's a newish term, not that new, but last five 87 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 2: years it's gained some legs called health span. 88 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: Francis, have you heard of that? 89 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 3: I also get what you're saying, which is it's rather lifespan. 90 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 3: It's the quality of your life while you're alive, because 91 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: you can live and will you both have seen this too. 92 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 3: You can live a long life. But it doesn't mean 93 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 3: you're living in a cognizant life, or an active life, 94 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 3: or an enriched life, or an inner life where you're 95 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 3: experiencing the world. You're just a set of lungs and 96 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 3: a heart. And you know, it's a fair question to 97 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 3: discuss around what is the value of that, Where is 98 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 3: the agency and that what is the sort of ethics 99 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,559 Speaker 3: of maintaining people that way? I guess the voluntary system 100 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: dying legislation which is available in the different parts of 101 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 3: the world at the moment, and in saying Victoria, in 102 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 3: Australia it's available, and I'm sure it's available elsewhere as well, 103 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 3: around the country and internationally. You know, it challenges those 104 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 3: old precepts of the established church and other religious and 105 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 3: monochy philosophies around the sanctity of life, you know, you know, 106 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 3: being an absolute when we are now asking well, is 107 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 3: life lived that way really a life with dignity? And 108 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 3: if it's not a life with dignity. What is it? 109 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 3: And it's a big. 110 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: Question now ask Yeah, there are so many things that 111 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: come up for me. And you know, my mum and 112 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 2: dad are eighty five and your dad. 113 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: Is in his eight ays is he? Yeah? 114 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, there's there's so many things 115 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: that kind of intersect, you know, the psychology and the 116 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 2: brain stuff and the general wellness and the immune system 117 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: and the ability to be able to get in and 118 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 2: out of a chair and and and all of the 119 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: practical things. You know, I've been talking to my mum 120 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 2: this afternoon and God bless us, she's fine. There's no 121 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 2: neither she or Dad have dementia per se. But you 122 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 2: know that there's some cognitive decline which is pretty much 123 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 2: inevitable with everyone from fifty, depending on a few things. 124 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 2: But we know that we can stave that off with 125 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: you know, training our brain for want of a better term, 126 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: But there's always going to be a level of just 127 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: like physiological decline, cognitive decline, psychological decline perhaps. 128 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: But you know, my mum is I've been talking to 129 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: her this afternoon. 130 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 2: She's got these bills that have come in and you 131 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: know it's now at the point where she can't go 132 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 2: and you know, pay bills with a check anymore, you know, 133 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: cash is pretty much irrelevant and redundant. 134 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: And she was talking to me about and that these 135 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: are not you. 136 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 2: Know, they're just power and insurance and red Joe and 137 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: all of these things. And she's so stressed about it. 138 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: And I, in the end, I wasn't going to see 139 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: them this weekend because got stuff to do. And in 140 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: the end, and we're recording this Friday, two thirty and 141 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 2: I just rang Mom and I said, I'm going to 142 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: come down tomorrow. I'll be there at midday and we're 143 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: geting to go through everything. We're going to figure out 144 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: how to how to make everything electronically linked to me 145 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: and Melissa will fix it all for you, Melissa who 146 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: runs my life, of course. And so just to take 147 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: that responsibility of paying bills off her out of her 148 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: hands so she doesn't she's so stressed about everything. She's 149 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: got a new phone and they keep sending her notification. 150 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: She doesn't know what to do. I'm like, Mum, you 151 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: don't have to do anything. Oh, but why are they 152 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 2: sending them? I'm like, oh my god, you know, And 153 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: and I look at Joe Biden and I think, you know, 154 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: one of the things that really creates cognitive problems is 155 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: or sleep. Well, he can't be sleeping that well, right 156 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 2: and pressure, stress, and anxiety are all cognitive inhibitors. Right now, 157 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: imagine the pressure that he is under apart from the 158 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 2: fact that he's eighty one or two, and you know, 159 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: God bless him, but clearly on the slide, like that's 160 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: not arguable anymore, but you chuck on top of that again, 161 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: arguably the most powerful position in the world with the 162 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: most pressure. I mean, I don't know how he even 163 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: gets out of bed at the moment. 164 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, And of course there's sort of the Greek tragedy 165 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: element of this is, you know, we're getting too deep 166 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 3: in the political weeds. Here is his inability to recognize 167 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 3: that and step away from the campaign and allow someone 168 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 3: younger to do it. It's almost Shakespearean and it's tragedy. 169 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 3: Someone who's commuted, has done so much work in public service, 170 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 3: his entire life, has suffered so much personal tragedy from 171 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 3: the death of his wife and his daughter and the 172 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 3: death of his elderson from cancer and just kept going 173 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 3: and just you know, I think most people across the 174 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: past and divide in the United States. Despite all the 175 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 3: rectoric that you hear, most sensible people acknowledge he's been 176 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 3: an incredible public sermon who has done great things. But 177 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 3: he's at this very moment, because of his inability to 178 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 3: come to terms with his own mortality and his own decline, 179 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 3: is in danger of undoing his legacy, which is just tragic. 180 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 3: It is the sort of stuff of a Greek tragedy. 181 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 3: So it's happening in front of our eyes, but it 182 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 3: does remind us about our own challenge to come to 183 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 3: terms with our You could call it decline, but I 184 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 3: would like to say the changes that we face that 185 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 3: we can't avoid, the changes that are that are inevitable 186 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 3: in lots of ways, that might be seen as decline, 187 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 3: but it's just it's confronting, Craig, and you and I 188 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 3: both had sort of dealing with parents who are diminished 189 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 3: physically and mentally, and it's you know, part of you 190 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 3: wonder as well, both of you. Both you and I 191 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 3: and a lot of people who listen to this podcast 192 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 3: spend a lot of time thinking and working hard at 193 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 3: being our best version of ourselves now. But you can't 194 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 3: bank it. It's not like you go, well, I did 195 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 3: it for ten years, kind of a year off. We 196 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 3: can I have four years at the end of perfect 197 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 3: cognition because you know, like long service leave, I've done 198 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 3: twenty years of eating well and exercise, So there's a 199 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 3: getting an extra five years of being at the top 200 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 3: of my game. And it doesn't work like that, does it? 201 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 3: Or does it great? I mean, give me, give me 202 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 3: some hope that it's been that we're investing in. I mean, 203 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 3: it's a geriatric future that is a little sharper than 204 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: what we're experiencing with our own well. 205 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: I mean, there's an inevitability of decline. Of course, nobody 206 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: lives forever. Nobody has optimal cognitive function forever, nobody can 207 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 2: bench press their house forever. 208 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: We get all of that, and. 209 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 2: So there's what we know is there's an inevitability of 210 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: chronological aging day after day, of course. But what's not 211 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: what's what isn't a constant is the way that we age. 212 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 2: So there's the variability of and I mean, of course 213 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: we're all going to die at some stage, and of 214 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: course we're all going to end up in a diseased 215 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: or a dysfunctional state eventually. And that's where that term 216 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 2: health span comes in is you know, so what we 217 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: want to do is we want to be you know, 218 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 2: really we want to be atypical in that we want 219 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 2: to be as strong and functional and healthy and cognitively 220 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 2: kind of good as we can for as long as 221 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 2: we can. And so we know that, you know, sleep 222 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 2: and exercise and quality and nutrition and minimal stress and 223 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 2: being challenged and working against resistance in an intelligent way, 224 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 2: and all of those things can help us stay somewhere 225 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: near optimal for our potential. But it's you know, there's 226 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: still that which you and I spoke about briefly this morning, 227 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 2: is that's all good? And I think you and I 228 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 2: for our ages are probably going okay, maybe slightly better 229 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: than average hopefully, but there's going to come a time 230 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 2: where we're not. And you go, well, so what do 231 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: I do between now and then? And I think between 232 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 2: now and then, that's the health span bit, is you know, 233 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: it's like you were alluding to, living ninety years is good, 234 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 2: but not if the last fifteen years are fucking horrible, 235 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: you know what to do about that? 236 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: And with that is the conundrum. 237 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 3: The other part of it is also just the fragility 238 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 3: of living well it is, you know, being able to 239 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 3: sort of have those moments of realizing the realization occasion 240 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 3: where you go, look, I'm feeling good physically. No, my 241 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: joints don't feel sore. I don't have a muscle injury. 242 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 3: I'm walking okay, my back's not sore. I'm not finding 243 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 3: it difficult to sit down or stand up or walk. 244 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 3: When we're younger, we take that for granted, but I 245 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 3: don't know what you're like. But I now have those 246 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 3: moments of the city were go, wow, this is I'm 247 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 3: really aware of that at the moment, because it's not 248 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 3: always going to be the way. And when you do 249 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 3: get sticked and you are incapacitated, and whether it's you know, 250 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 3: I guess many of us experienced in the last five 251 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 3: or six years with the COVID nineteen and you know, 252 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 3: it can really stricken you really quickly. And he went 253 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 3: from feeling I remember the first time I caught her, 254 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 3: I was just being finished on a long run and 255 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 3: it was feeling really good and came home. I drove 256 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 3: home from the River trail, I was exercising, and by 257 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 3: the time I got home, I'm going to know that 258 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 3: the end or from rush after just having a good 259 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 3: hour and a half role feeling great right, and by 260 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 3: the time there's just that instinct something ain't right. And 261 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 3: by the time I got upstairs, I was a million 262 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 3: miles away from from feeling it good. And so you 263 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 3: get are you're really sick really quickly, and you lose 264 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 3: that zest and yeah, and it's really quite frightening. It's 265 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 3: like a window on a world that, as you said, 266 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 3: is inevitable for all of us. And I wanted you know, 267 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 3: it's all that sort of philosophy around the ability to 268 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 3: cope with sickness or to endure, or to you know, 269 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 3: to be able to sort of learn more of yourself 270 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 3: about yourself and how you deal with illness and relate 271 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 3: to your body. Fascinated all that stuff around that because 272 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 3: there is that attitude towards sickness. I guess it's saying 273 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 3: with cancer. When someone has cancer, we lionize the idea 274 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 3: that you're fighting, right, so you're going to have you're 275 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 3: a batler, you're fighting. You've got cancer. And cancers obviously 276 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 3: are multi multi hued, you know, tapestry of misery, no 277 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 3: doubt about that. But there are some cancers that you 278 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 3: can't fight, right, But you get diagnosed with and you 279 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 3: know your life is going to be cut short. But 280 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: you know because of the pressure that there's a virtue 281 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:46,119 Speaker 3: in fighting illness. You people go through really difficult treatments 282 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 3: and chemotherapy and other treatments that make them sick in 283 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 3: the process, and they might eke out a short a 284 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 3: bit longer life span, but not quality of life. But 285 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 3: if you were to say, actually, I know I'm going 286 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 3: to die, there's no way I can be cured. I 287 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 3: would rather just live my life and go through the 288 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 3: palative process when it happens, but I'm not going to 289 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 3: undertake treatment. I think our culture would judge you as 290 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 3: somebody who wasn't a fighter, that you weren't prepared to 291 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 3: fight the disease that you know, by being a fighter 292 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 3: using the frame using the word fight or battling cancer, 293 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 3: you know, it does suggest that if you don't, then 294 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 3: you're a coward. I mean, that's the other side of 295 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 3: being a fighter's count, right. So I think it's really 296 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 3: fascinating people come that do come to terms with their 297 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 3: illness and go okay, philosophically, I know this is going 298 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 3: to be horrible, but I've come to a point where 299 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 3: I'm at peace or I found a certain state of 300 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: grace in dealing with the fact that I would rather 301 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 3: die with this way than put myself through a treatment 302 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 3: to prove a point, or to eke out another month 303 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 3: or two and be sick the entire time. You know, 304 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: it's a really interesting way. Do we have to come 305 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 3: to terms with our own mortality? 306 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that you're talking about voluntary assisted 307 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 2: dying before. So We've had a friend of mine who 308 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 2: I actually went to UNI with, who did exercise science, 309 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: then went and did nursing and then a bunch of 310 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: other stuff after that. 311 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: Her name's Nicki Morrison. Shout out to Nikki. She's a 312 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: straight up angel. 313 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 2: She works with people, so she's a death duel of Francis. 314 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: So when people want to take that path of assist dying, 315 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: she facilitates that with them in the home. And it's 316 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: like I think for some people who when like you said, 317 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: there is medically no chance of you know, that they 318 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: are going to recover, just to be able to say, 319 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: all right. 320 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: Well I'm going to die, I'd rather die on my terms. 321 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: I'd rather die. 322 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 2: I don't want to die in agony I don't want 323 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 2: to die in being humiliated and have someone wipe my ass. 324 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: And I don't want that. I don't want that. I 325 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 2: don't want to be you know. And not that everyone 326 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: would be embarrassed, or neither should they be necessarily, but 327 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: for some people, you know, I think to be able 328 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 2: to make that decision about you know, for some people 329 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 2: in certain specific medical circumstances, I understand that, and. 330 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: I I, yeah, I don't I don't know that I 331 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: would say no to that. 332 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: You know, in my own my only thing would be 333 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 2: my very religious upbringing, which. 334 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: Tells me you can't do that. But you know, that 335 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 1: whole eternal lake of fire thing, Francis, that's somewhat of 336 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: a deterrent. 337 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 3: It is, it is you know, yeah, that's hard white 338 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 3: into a lot of people cray. And it's the reason 339 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 3: why you know, we still have this discussion around it, 340 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 3: around a system dying and the dignity of sacred, sacred 341 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 3: nature of life. I still I still wristle with the 342 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 3: tea because as a philosophical position around that, if we 343 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 3: make those sorts of decisions culturally relative, so you know, 344 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 3: we can start if it's not an absolute or empirical 345 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 3: idea that all life is stacred or you know, the 346 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 3: sanct thing of life is universal. Then we can start 347 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 3: to peel off different areas and in different times, in 348 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 3: under different cultural circumstances, political circumstances, we make allowances that 349 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 3: we would not have even considered in the past. And 350 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 3: so I understand that the cultural relativity argument around well 351 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 3: when do we start choosing or how do we make 352 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: a value judgment about what is dignified living or what 353 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 3: is a life worth living? And that becomes a subjective conversation, 354 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 3: and you know, you know, if people are the chronically 355 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 3: depressed and they don't feel like living anymore, does that 356 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 3: then become an issue around the quality of life and 357 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 3: should they then allow it to be have access to 358 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 3: assistant eye? And that's when you get to these culturally 359 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 3: relative positions about the value of human life and who's 360 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 3: making those rules, who's making that judgment? It's it isn't 361 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 3: you know? I know that we're living a world of 362 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 3: binary opinions where you're either for or aget it. I 363 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 3: think it's a really difficult situation, a difficult issue that 364 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 3: does impose a lot of serious ethical and moral questions 365 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 3: that aren't easily answered. I mean, there are cases and 366 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 3: as you said, where people are so physically stricten or 367 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 3: that is there can be no argument about it. But 368 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: at the same time, when you start to add that 369 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 3: element of about dignity and quality of life, that means 370 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 3: different things different. 371 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 2: People, And don't you think it's interesting that we do 372 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: live in this very kind of you've got to have 373 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: a yes or no, Like how about fuck? I don't know, Like, 374 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: I don't like it's okay, you know, it's like, why 375 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: do I have to be in one or the other camp? 376 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: Here's an idea. I'm human and I'm unsure. 377 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: I don't want to Like, there's also that option I 378 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: feel it's it's ridiculous that people feel compelled to pressure 379 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 2: or leave people in Well, here are your two options. 380 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 2: Which of these is? How about listen, Brian? How about 381 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 2: neither I need more information or more time or I 382 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: just you know, I just don't know. As somebody who 383 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: is in his fifties and you've got a dad who's 384 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 2: not super well at the moment, how are you going 385 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 2: with that? 386 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:24,479 Speaker 3: Like? 387 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: Has this been I don't know, has this been a shock? 388 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 2: Has this been has it effected perspective? 389 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: In any way. 390 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 3: That's interesting. My dad's been sick for a very long time, 391 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 3: you know. He retired at the age of forty after 392 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 3: a workplace accident and has been with basically both my 393 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 3: parents have basically been dealing with a healthcare system for 394 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 3: a better part of thirty forty years. And to that end, 395 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 3: I'm so glad that they live in Australia, where their 396 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 3: access is working past people to high quality healthcare is 397 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 3: second to none, and that they're looked after with dignity 398 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 3: and with great care and with an expertise out on 399 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 3: the par with anywhere else in the where we really 400 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 3: are truly fully blessed. So that aside that illness or 401 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 3: battling the illness and sickness has always been part of 402 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 3: my life, or dealing with my parents' illness, that's just 403 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 3: what we've always done. But as he gets closer to 404 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: the end, I spend a lot more time with you 405 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 3: because I and this is one of the things I 406 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 3: would encourage people to do if they're dealing with the 407 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 3: situation that you and I are, and that you and 408 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 3: I think are both chosing this part. It's easy to 409 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 3: sort of, I think, not easy to write words it's 410 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 3: tempting to sort of try to pass your way through 411 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 3: it and go, look, i'll do a little bit here, 412 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 3: I'll do a little bit there, and I hope someone 413 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 3: else can get up there, or you know, I'll try 414 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 3: to cut corners around looking at my parents or hope 415 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 3: one of my siblings picks it up, you know, because 416 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 3: it's confronting, right, It's time consuming, and you spend a 417 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 3: lot of time sitting around hospital wars or waiting for 418 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 3: appointments and around other sick people, and traveling to and 419 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: from appointments in cars, and you know, it's a grind. 420 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 3: It's a grind, right, It's hard work. But I'm glad 421 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 3: that at a certain point when I was trying to 422 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 3: do it in a way that was, you know, collaborative 423 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 3: with other people, I just thought, this is too hard, 424 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 3: and I'm going to regret not just buying him totally. 425 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 3: It is. So my siblings are great and we all 426 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 3: work together on it, but I just look, as much 427 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 3: as I can, I will take him to his medical appointments. 428 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 3: It just sud of when not making a call Are 429 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 3: you free? Are you free? You know? Because that gets 430 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 3: exhausting of itself. If I can't, and there be times 431 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 3: I can't because I have a job that takes me 432 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 3: all over the place. We'll know in in vance and 433 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 3: we'll work it out. But if i'm if i'm here, 434 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 3: or if I can make time, I'll do it. And 435 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 3: that's just taken a lot of stress out. And it's 436 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 3: also meant that I spent a lot of time with him, 437 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 3: and you know, you get to know him a lot better. 438 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 3: You know, he's got the vascular he's got that beast 439 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 3: the dimension, which is a version of the disease which 440 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 3: affects his short term memory, but his long term memory 441 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 3: is quite vivid. And so he's been telling me stories 442 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 3: about his young life and his childhood and growing up 443 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 3: that he never shared with me before, which I've recalled. 444 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 3: I've recorded some of those just on my phone, just conversations, 445 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 3: so that I've got those to keep, and that's been 446 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 3: really important. It's given me another tour understanding of who 447 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: he is and the challenges he faced as he as 448 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 3: a kid, you know, growing up basically kicked out at 449 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 3: home at the age of twelve and living with friends 450 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 3: and just living on his wits most of his life. 451 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 3: But then there's another moments that just just good fun. 452 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 3: Like we sit together day we were waiting for his 453 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 3: doctor and dragged on and on and on. So I 454 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 3: just get out my phone now and go on Instagram 455 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 3: and find my favorite comedy clips and we just sit there, 456 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 3: you clicking through instag comedy stand up thirty forty second 457 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 3: bits of people say hey, Dad, look at this, just 458 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 3: pissing ourselves laughing, and it's just a lot of fun. 459 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 3: We we're idiots in the in the hospital waiting room. 460 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 3: I don't know because there's noise and everything going. I said, 461 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 3: I just put it on and I have a look 462 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 3: at his day, and he's having a great old bally laughing. 463 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 3: I think, well, this is fun, I mean of a 464 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 3: shit situation by laughing at a bit of day that 465 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 3: on comedy or some old you know, really. 466 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: Speaking of Catholics. 467 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 2: I you know, it's funny, like yesterday or this week's 468 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 2: been really busy for me, you know, just lots of 469 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 2: work and lots of stuff, and today fair bit on. 470 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 2: And I got on the phone with mom before as 471 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: I was telling you, and like she's a bit stressed 472 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: about some stuff. And then the more we talked, like 473 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 2: it was clear that she was really stressed. And then 474 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 2: it's funny how when you know, like with me, there's 475 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 2: no wife, there's no grandkids to support, there's no of course, 476 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 2: and I'm fine with all that. There's no siblings, and 477 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 2: so it's all pretty much me, which is fine. But 478 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 2: then you get to the point where you're like, oh, 479 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 2: so this conversation I'm in right now with my mum, 480 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 2: this is more important than all the other things I've 481 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 2: got to do today, Like this is what needs to 482 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 2: have my energy and my attention and my focus. And then, 483 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: as I was saying before, Mama is so worried about bills, 484 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 2: not that they don't have the dough to pay them, 485 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: but she doesn't have the skills, right, And I just said, 486 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 2: you know, all right, I'll come up tomorrow. 487 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: We'll just come up tomorrow and we'll sort it all out. 488 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 2: And it's funny how when things are going for me, 489 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 2: when things are going shit with my mum and dad, 490 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: it's like all the other problems aren't problems absolutely, you know, 491 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: It's like it just gives me a level of clarity 492 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: and perspective about what actually matters. Because for me anyway, 493 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 2: because I don't have a wife and kids, so I 494 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 2: guess they're the most important people in the world to me. 495 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 2: And and I don't know if people feel this, but 496 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 2: I feel like it's almost like now I'm the dad, yes, 497 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 2: and I feel like I am responsible and if I'm 498 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 2: not responsible, no one will be. And it's just I'm 499 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: not at the point where I'm making decisions for them, 500 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 2: but I'm thinking, Okay, I think we need to talk 501 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,239 Speaker 2: about this thing now, and they will never bring it up. 502 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: You know. 503 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 2: It's like they live in this big old house in 504 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 2: Latrobe Valley on a big old black land with fucking 505 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: way too much stuff and way too much space. I'm like, 506 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 2: you two dither around about the twenty square feet and 507 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: the rest of the mansion is fucking gathering us, right, 508 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 2: But it's. 509 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 4: Oh no, no, no, no, I'm like, but it's so 510 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 4: hard because you know what that is as well, and 511 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 4: I'm you know, doing this at the moment with my 512 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 4: dad going into care is it's a. 513 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 3: Massive change for them, and that's a that's a signifier 514 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 3: of their own, you know, their own journey that they're 515 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 3: getting to a point where you know, they're in the 516 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 3: twilight of the years. So it's pretty confronting. But I 517 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 3: know what you mean. It's also you're just not in 518 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 3: a position to maintain this place anymore, Like you know, 519 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 3: it's just too big and it's but demands too much 520 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 3: of you. So yeah, that's really hard. I do have 521 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 3: power of attorney with dad, so I do have to 522 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 3: make some of those decisions. But I'm pretty clear headed 523 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 3: about that. And the other thing I would say to 524 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 3: people who are when your time comes to deal with 525 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 3: this is get on top of that really quickly. Talk 526 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 3: to your parents, talking siblings. You know, my siblings and 527 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 3: I have a really solid and great relationship when it 528 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 3: comes to dealing with these issues. And I'm really really lucky, 529 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 3: really really lucky to have four siblings that we all 530 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 3: get it and we all support each other and despite 531 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 3: all the different things are going on our own lives. 532 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,479 Speaker 3: Because not everybody has that right. And if you do 533 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 3: have issues with siblings that I've seen, it hurd a 534 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 3: lot or other people in your family who don't understand, 535 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 3: you know, what's going on, or they've got their own 536 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 3: hurt and their own feelings that they haven't really dealt with, 537 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 3: and it starts to manifest itself around the situation with 538 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 3: the parents. Oh, it could be help, it could be 539 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 3: hell so. And that's where those flash points become really important, 540 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 3: where you haven't established who has power of attorney in 541 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 3: a situation like that, and you're trying to have a 542 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 3: collegiate conversation with your brothers and sisters or an uncle 543 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 3: or an auntie, and nobody has the ultimate deciding power 544 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 3: to decide because you haven't done your power of attorney, 545 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 3: and it just gets messy. So I implore you, if 546 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 3: you're going to go and involved in a caring role 547 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 3: for an aging parent who's at some stage is going 548 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 3: to need someone to make decisions for them, have that 549 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 3: conversation now. Get it out of the way, because there'll 550 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 3: come a time when you're going to need it. And 551 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 3: that's one of the things I've learned is I guess 552 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 3: the theme of this is that we're embracing the aging 553 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 3: and I guess mortality in a way. We're going to run. 554 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 3: We're going to run towards it when we see it 555 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 3: when we need to help people, because there's no getting 556 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 3: away from it and the only way through is through, 557 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 3: and to do it well, to do it well for 558 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 3: both the person who you might be caring for nursing 559 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 3: and for yourself. You have to embrace it. You have 560 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 3: to embrace it and take it on as painful and 561 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 3: as confronting as it is. 562 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: As somebody who never has to kind of navigate or 563 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 2: negotiate the sibling thing, right, and who's going to do this? 564 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 2: And that's not something I have to contend with or 565 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: have the pleasure or the whatever. I don't know what 566 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 2: the right term is, but I've had, as you kind 567 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 2: of alluded to, lots of conversations with friends who've gone 568 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 2: that with parents and the money grabbing SI who is 569 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 2: like all about the dough. 570 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 5: I'm like, what, oh, yeah, it's all about I'm like, 571 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 5: oh my god, like that that just it just repulses 572 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 5: me so much. 573 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: But I get that it happens. But the idea that 574 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, dad's on his. 575 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 2: Way out or mum's on her way out or whatever, 576 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 2: and the kids are fighting over the money rather than 577 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 2: loving the mum and dad, and just like it never 578 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: I mean, well, I never really thought about it till 579 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 2: I started hearing about it, and I hear about it 580 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: quite a lot. 581 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 3: It is one of the great revealers of human character 582 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 3: is dealing with mortality. These people who find that their 583 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 3: brother and sister. And you know, I've heard this twice 584 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 3: in the last three or four years from people that 585 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 3: I know who found out that their older brother or 586 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 3: sister has been nursing a greed for many years and 587 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 3: expects it. You know, I've always done a certain thing 588 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 3: in relation to the parents' situation and the estate that 589 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 3: they never dreamed possible because they feel entitled to a 590 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 3: certain situation being settled in their favor. It's it reveals 591 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,479 Speaker 3: character about greed and you know, the desperation to want things. 592 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 3: But also I guess in some ways, you know, people 593 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 3: carry a lot of hurt around and it manifests in 594 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 3: this way. When a parent dies. It's it is quite 595 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 3: it's quite horrifying. And that's why it's good to try 596 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 3: to have these conversations early and make sure that everyone 597 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 3: understands where they're at. And sometimes it's good not to 598 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 3: have a lot to worry about. By my parents, there's 599 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 3: no fighting over much. 600 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm not getting rich off Mary at any stage, 601 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 2: So God God blessed that little But you know, about well, 602 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 2: I did hear recently of somebody that I know quite 603 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 2: well well, and there's a member in their family, one 604 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 2: of the children, who is who was basically on dad's 605 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 2: deathbed trying to get him to change the will. 606 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: Like what kind of fucking human does that? 607 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 3: Oh wow, you know. 608 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: Like pleading his case. 609 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 3: But you know this also it comes back to what 610 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 3: we were talking about earlier too, which is about the 611 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 3: efficacy and that the integrity of the right to assist 612 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 3: to dying, because one of the other issues that is 613 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 3: very permanent in this is elder elderly abuse and financial 614 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 3: abuse older people. So if someone gets if someone is 615 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 3: sick or incapacitated and their person who has the power 616 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 3: of attorney decides, maybe against the wishes of the people 617 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 3: they have at their power at because they have a 618 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 3: financial need or they've got an impulse to acquire something quickly, 619 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 3: that they go down. If we were to say, well, 620 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 3: that person, they wouldn't have the right to go down. 621 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 3: It's just the dying route at some point. If things 622 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 3: change at the moment, it's a lot more stringent around that, 623 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 3: and the person who would be subject to it's just 624 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 3: the dying has to go through some very rigorous processes 625 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 3: before they are put on that program. But you know, 626 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 3: once again, everything's relative, and cultural relativity might mean at 627 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 3: some point he's just going, well, this person's in a 628 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 3: bed and you know, it's not not really engaged in 629 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 3: the world, and you're the you're the power of attorney. 630 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 3: You have the right to turn off the machine, you know, 631 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 3: and that that that happens all the time. That's sort 632 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 3: of not the spousal abuse or financial abuse of older 633 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 3: people exploring older people because of their financial circumstances. You know, 634 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 3: that's a real issue. It just it's sometimes events like 635 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 3: this can bring out the very best in us in 636 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 3: the way we handle these situations, but it can also 637 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 3: bring out the very worst. 638 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: At the moment. 639 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 2: I my thinking around my mom and dad is I 640 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 2: want to, within reason, I want to see them as 641 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 2: much as I can, and because there's going to be 642 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 2: a time where I'm going to wish they are around 643 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 2: to annoy. 644 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: Me, you know what I mean, You'll hear the voices 645 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: in your head. 646 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: Yeah that'll be there forever. But yeah, I just think, 647 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 2: you know, I know it sounds cliche, but just to 648 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 2: just to be able to spend time with them while 649 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 2: they're still here and you know, all that kind of stuff. 650 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 2: So I guess I'm a little bit philosophical around that. 651 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: But it also you know, there's a real practical component 652 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 2: to how do I help them manage whatever it is 653 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 2: the last one two, five ten years of their existence, 654 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 2: because you know, there's apart from all the medical stuff 655 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: and all the psychological and emotional and sociological stuff, there's 656 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: still there's all the practical things that need to be navigated, 657 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 2: which is it gets quite messy, you. 658 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 3: Know it does. But as we said, there's no other 659 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 3: way through them through it, so onwards we go to 660 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 3: it we do. 661 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: Indeed, now are you heading off? You're heading off to 662 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: see your dad after this? 663 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 3: Am I life to the old fella, listen to his 664 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 3: bad dad jokes, which you know concert those still. 665 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 2: So you're going to one day you're going to miss them, mate, 666 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 2: So you just celebrate them while they're still coming out, 667 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 2: while they're still coming out. 668 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: You too, mate, I appreciate you. I hope things all 669 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: right with you. 670 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 2: Will say goodbye affair, but for the moment, Francis, Michael, 671 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 2: Kevin Patrick, John O. 672 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, Dante's Shakira, thanks for having a