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Speaker 1: I'll get a team.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another installment of the project. That's you, It's Jumbo,

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Speaker 2: it's Fatty Harps, It's Craig Anthony, half of the kid

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Speaker 2: from the Country.

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Speaker 1: It's Francis. Is it Patrick?

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Speaker 3: Michael Patrick Michael.

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Speaker 1: Francis Michael? Fuck? That's the most Catholic name ever. Francis Michael.

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Speaker 2: Peter Leech is one of those a what we Catholics

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Speaker 2: called we all of a sudden, I'm a Catholic?

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Speaker 1: Is what? Really? It's one of those a confirmation.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Peter, you had to choose it.

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Speaker 4: I chose Peter because Peter, you know, it's sort of

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Speaker 4: like these days it could be kind of cool because

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Speaker 4: Peter was the rock of the church on which the

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Speaker 4: church was got so I was kind of like the rock,

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Speaker 4: as in, were.

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Speaker 3: You though.

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Speaker 2: I don't I don't know that you were the rock

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Speaker 2: that Jesus built his church on.

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Speaker 1: But all right, yeah, well, so for the non Catholics,

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Speaker 1: for the non Catholics that are like, what the fuck?

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Speaker 2: So when you're when you're about thirteen, you undergo this

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Speaker 2: thing or you go through this, but what is it

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Speaker 2: a ritual.

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Speaker 1: Process of right to fuck?

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Speaker 2: Some some Catholic kind of called a confirmation and you

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Speaker 2: get to you get to choose the name, and you

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Speaker 2: have a you have a name that goes on.

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Speaker 1: You know. So I'm Craig Anthony.

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Speaker 2: Mine was meant to be Mark, and he called me Paul,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, so I was confused. So anyway, he goes,

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Speaker 2: I confirm you Craig Anthony Paul. I'm like, Champ, that's

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Speaker 2: the wrong name. But I didn't obviously say that because

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Speaker 2: I was fourteen year old in is c a fat

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Speaker 2: kid or thirteen?

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Speaker 1: So I just went right.

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Speaker 2: Paul.

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Speaker 3: You had to.

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Speaker 4: It had to be like an Apostles name or a

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Speaker 4: Saints dame. It couldn't just become Francis Michael, Dante Leech.

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Speaker 3: She couldn't go Francis Michael Muhammad or Leech.

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Speaker 2: You had yeah, oh yeah, yeah, Craig Anthony Shakira.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, much more popular if you could choose like a

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Speaker 3: really hip name.

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Speaker 5: Oh I'll tell you what. There are a whole range

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Speaker 5: of reasons. Let's not start on the Catholic Church. But

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Speaker 5: it's just if anyone's got some fucking marketing and branding

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Speaker 5: and pr work to do. Anyway, let's not open that door.

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Speaker 5: How are you well, I know how you are. You're busy,

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Speaker 5: are you all okay?

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Speaker 4: But you know, I think you and I are roll

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Speaker 4: in the same boat at the moment without you know,

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Speaker 4: let's talk about the thing that we've been talking about

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Speaker 4: when we haven't been talking on here, and that is

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Speaker 4: mortality and aging, and it's everywhere at the moment, Craig,

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you know my love politics, and

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Speaker 4: suddenly aging immortality has become not just a national conversation

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Speaker 4: in United States, it's the global conversation.

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Speaker 3: As you watch Joe Biden right before our eyes, President

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden, right before.

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Speaker 4: Hours deal with being an eighty one going an eighty

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Speaker 4: teen year old man himself in real time on the

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Speaker 4: world stage, coming to terms or in fact not coming

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Speaker 4: to terms with the fact that age, despite all of

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Speaker 4: his achievements and all of the things that he thinks

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Speaker 4: he can do, is wearing him down. And it just

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Speaker 4: reminds us all the mortality comes to everyone, and you

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Speaker 4: and I both dealing with that in our own lives

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Speaker 4: with our parents at the moment, and it's the one

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Speaker 4: road we might take as many different parts in life

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Speaker 4: as we choose that everybody will have a different maleways

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Speaker 4: for their life, you know, which you know, no matter

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Speaker 4: how many things are similar and how many things we shared,

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Speaker 4: the will always be a bit like our DNA or

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Speaker 4: you know, there'll be a different road.

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Speaker 3: We've all got a.

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Speaker 4: Different road, but it all ends at the same spot.

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Speaker 4: And that's a really confronting thing. And I think that's

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Speaker 4: you know, the conversation around the Biden experience about him

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Speaker 4: and what his capacity is. And basically they're saying every

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Speaker 4: we're just falling short of the fact, well, he's going

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Speaker 4: to die soon, so it can't be president.

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Speaker 3: No one's going to say that, right because mortality is

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Speaker 3: to go. You can't say that.

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Speaker 4: But that's what the subtext is, and we're all dealing

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Speaker 4: with it in real time, and the consequences are just

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 3: Go Gainshawan.

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Speaker 4: It's such an interesting and really freaky scari.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm fascinated from you know, because I'm

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Speaker 2: fascinated with the brain and the mind, and I'm fascinated

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Speaker 2: obviously with the body.

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Speaker 1: And we talk about this thing.

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Speaker 2: There's a newish term, not that new, but last five

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Speaker 2: years it's gained some legs called health span.

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Speaker 1: Francis, have you heard of that?

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Speaker 3: I also get what you're saying, which is it's rather lifespan.

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Speaker 4: It's the quality of your life while you're alive, because

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Speaker 4: you can live and will you both have seen this too.

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Speaker 3: You can live a long life. But it doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: you're living in a cognizant life, or an active life,

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Speaker 3: or an enriched life, or an inner life where you're

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Speaker 3: experiencing the world. You're just a set of lungs and

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Speaker 3: a heart.

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Speaker 4: And you know, it's a fair question to discuss around

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Speaker 4: what is the value of that, Where is the agency

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Speaker 4: and that what is the sort of ethics of maintaining

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Speaker 4: people that way? I guess the voluntary system dying legislation

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Speaker 4: which is available in the different parts of the world

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Speaker 4: at the moment, and in saying Victoria, in Australia it's available,

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Speaker 4: and I'm sure it's available elsewhere as well, around the

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Speaker 4: country and internationally. You know, it challenges those old precepts

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Speaker 4: of the established church and other religious and monochy philosophies

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Speaker 4: around the sanctity of life, you know, you know, being

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Speaker 4: an absolute when we are now asking well, is life

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Speaker 4: lived that way really a life with dignity?

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Speaker 3: And if it's not a life with dignity, what is it?

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Speaker 3: And it's a big question to ask.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are so many things that come up for me.

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Speaker 2: And you know, my mum and dad are eighty five

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Speaker 2: and your dad.

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Speaker 1: Is in his eight ays is he? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, there's there's so many things

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Speaker 2: that kind of intersect, you know, the psychology and the

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Speaker 2: brain stuff and the general wellness and the immune system

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Speaker 2: and the ability to be able to get in and

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Speaker 2: out of a chair and and and all of the

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Speaker 2: practical things. You know, I've been talking to my mum

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Speaker 2: this afternoon and God bless us, she's fine. There's no

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Speaker 2: neither she or Dad have dementia per se. But you

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Speaker 2: know that there's some cognitive decline which is pretty much

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Speaker 2: inevitable with everyone from fifty, depending on a few things.

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Speaker 2: But we know that we can stave that off with

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Speaker 2: you know, training our brain for want of a better term,

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Speaker 2: But there's always going to be a level of just

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Speaker 2: like physiological decline, cognitive decline, psychological decline perhaps.

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Speaker 1: But you know, my mum is I've been talking to

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Speaker 1: her this afternoon.

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Speaker 2: She's got these bills that have come in and you

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Speaker 2: know it's now at the point where she can't go

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Speaker 2: and you know, pay bills with a check anymore, you know,

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Speaker 2: cash is pretty much irrelevant and redundant.

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Speaker 1: And she was talking to me about and that these

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Speaker 1: are not you.

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Speaker 2: Know, they're just power and insurance and red Joe and

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Speaker 2: all of these things. And she's so stressed about it.

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Speaker 2: And I, in the end, I wasn't going to see

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Speaker 2: them this weekend because got stuff to do. And in

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Speaker 2: the end, and we're recording this Friday, two thirty and

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Speaker 2: I just rang Mom and I said, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: come down tomorrow. I'll be there at midday and we're

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Speaker 2: geting to go through everything.

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Speaker 1: We're going to figure out how to.

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Speaker 2: How to make everything electronically linked to me and Melissa

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Speaker 2: will fix it all for you, Melissa who runs my life,

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Speaker 2: of course. And so just to take that responsibility of

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Speaker 2: paying bills off her out of her hands so she

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Speaker 2: doesn't she's so stressed about everything. She's got a new

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Speaker 2: phone and they keep sending her notification. She doesn't know

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Speaker 2: what to do. I'm like, Mum, you don't have to

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Speaker 2: do anything. Oh, but why are they sending them? I'm like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, you know, And and I look at

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden and I think, you know, one of the

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Speaker 2: things that really creates cognitive problems is or sleep. Well,

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Speaker 2: he can't be sleeping that well, right and pressure, stress,

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Speaker 2: and anxiety are all cognitive inhibitors. Right now, imagine the

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Speaker 2: pressure that he is under apart from the fact that

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Speaker 2: he's eighty one or two, and you know, God bless him,

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Speaker 2: but clearly on the slide, like that's not arguable anymore,

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Speaker 2: but you chuck on top of that again, arguably the

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Speaker 2: most powerful position in the world with the most pressure.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know how he even gets out

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Speaker 2: of bed at the moment.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And of course there's sort of the Greek tragedy

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Speaker 4: element of this is, you know, we're getting too deep

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Speaker 4: in the political weeds. Here is his inability to recognize

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Speaker 4: that and step away from the campaign and allow someone

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Speaker 4: younger to do it.

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Speaker 3: It's almost Shakespearean and it's tragedy.

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Speaker 4: Someone who's commuted, has done so much work in public service,

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Speaker 4: his entire life, has suffered so much personal tragedy from

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Speaker 4: the death of his wife and his daughter and the

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Speaker 4: death of his elderson from cancer and just kept going

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Speaker 4: and just you know, I think most people across the

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Speaker 4: past and divide in the United States. Despite all the

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Speaker 4: rectoric that you hear, most sensible people acknowledge he's been

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Speaker 4: an incredible public sermon who has done great things. But

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Speaker 4: he's at this very moment, because of his inability to

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Speaker 4: come to terms with his own mortality and his own decline,

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Speaker 4: is in danger of undoing his legacy, which is just tragic.

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Speaker 4: It is the sort of stuff of a Greek tragedy.

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Speaker 4: So it's happening in front of our eyes, but it

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Speaker 4: does remind us about our own challenge to come to

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Speaker 4: terms with our.

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Speaker 3: You could call it decline, but I would.

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Speaker 4: Like to say the changes that we face that we

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Speaker 4: can't avoid, the changes that are that are inevitable in

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Speaker 4: lots of ways, that might be seen as decline, but

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Speaker 4: it's just it's confronting, Craig, and you and I both

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Speaker 4: had sort of dealing with parents who are diminished physically

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Speaker 4: and mentally, and it's you know, part of you wonder

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Speaker 4: as well, both of you.

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Speaker 3: Both you and I and a lot of people who.

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Speaker 4: Listen to this podcast spend a lot of time thinking

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Speaker 4: and working hard at being our best version of ourselves now.

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Speaker 4: But you can't bank it. It's not like you go, well,

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Speaker 4: I did it for ten years, kind of a year off.

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Speaker 4: We can I have four years at the end of

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Speaker 4: perfect cognition because you know, like long service leave, I've done.

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Speaker 3: Twenty years of eating.

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Speaker 4: Well and exercise, So there's a getting an extra five

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Speaker 4: years of being at the top of my game. And

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Speaker 4: it doesn't work like that, does it? Or does it great?

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Speaker 4: I mean, give me, give me some hope.

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Speaker 3: That it's been that we're investing in. I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: a geriatric future that is a little sharper than what

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Speaker 3: we're experiencing with our own well.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's an inevitability of decline. Of course, nobody

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Speaker 2: lives forever. Nobody has optimal cognitive function forever, nobody can

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Speaker 2: bench press their house forever. We get all of that,

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Speaker 2: and so there's what we know is there's an inevitability

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Speaker 2: of chronological aging day after day, of course. But what's

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Speaker 2: not what's what isn't a constant is the way that

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Speaker 2: we age. So there's the variability of and I mean,

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Speaker 2: of course we're all going to die at some stage,

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Speaker 2: and of course we're all going to end up in

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Speaker 2: a diseased or a dysfunctional state eventually. And that's where

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Speaker 2: that term health span comes in is you know, so

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Speaker 2: what we want to do is we want to be

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Speaker 2: you know, really we want to be atypical in that

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Speaker 2: we want to be as strong and functional and healthy

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Speaker 2: and cognitively kind of good as we can for as

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Speaker 2: long as we can. And so we know that, you know,

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Speaker 2: sleep and exercise and quality and nutrition and minimal stress

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Speaker 2: and being challenged and working against resistance in an intelligent way,

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Speaker 2: and all of those things can help us stay somewhere

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Speaker 2: near optimal for our potential. But it's you know, there's

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Speaker 2: still that which you and I spoke about briefly this morning,

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Speaker 2: is that's all good? And I think you and I

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Speaker 2: for our ages are probably going okay, maybe slightly better

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Speaker 2: than average hopefully, but there's going to come a time

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Speaker 2: where we're not. And you go, well, so what do

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Speaker 2: I do between now and then? And I think between

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Speaker 2: now and then, that's the health span bit, is you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like you were alluding to, living ninety years is good,

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Speaker 2: but not if the last fifteen years are fucking horrible,

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Speaker 2: you know what to do about that?

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Speaker 1: And with that is the conundrum.

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Speaker 4: The other part of it is also just the fragility

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Speaker 4: of living well it is, you know, being able to

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Speaker 4: sort of have those moments of realizing the realization occasion

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Speaker 4: where you go, look, I'm feeling good physically. No, my

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Speaker 4: joints don't feel sore. I don't have a muscle injury.

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Speaker 4: I'm walking okay, my back's not sore. I'm not finding

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Speaker 4: it difficult to sit down or stand up or walk.

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Speaker 4: When we're younger, we take that for granted, but I

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Speaker 4: don't know what you're like. But I now have those

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Speaker 4: moments of the city were go, wow, this is I'm

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Speaker 4: really aware of that at the moment, because it's not

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Speaker 4: always going to be the way. And when you do

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Speaker 4: get sicked and you are incapacitated, and whether it's you know,

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Speaker 4: I guess many of us experienced in the last five

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Speaker 4: or six years with the COVID nineteen and you know,

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Speaker 4: it can really stricken you really quickly.

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Speaker 3: And he went from feeling I.

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Speaker 4: Remember the first time I caught her, I was just

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Speaker 4: being finished on a long run and it was feeling

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Speaker 4: really good and came home. I drove home from the

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Speaker 4: A River troil, I was exercising, and by the time

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Speaker 4: I got home, I'm going to know.

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Speaker 3: That the end or from rush after just having a

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Speaker 3: good hour and a half role feeling great right, and

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Speaker 3: by the time there's just that instinct something ain't right.

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Speaker 4: And by the time I got upstairs, I was a

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Speaker 4: million miles away.

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Speaker 3: From from feeling it good.

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Speaker 4: And so you get are you're really sick really quickly

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Speaker 4: and you lose that zest and yeah, and it's really

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Speaker 4: quite frightening.

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Speaker 3: It's like a window on a world that, as you said,

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Speaker 3: is inevitable for all of us. And I wanted you know,

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Speaker 3: it's all that sort of philosophy around the ability to

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Speaker 3: cope with sickness or to endure, or to you know,

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Speaker 3: to be able to sort of learn more of yourself

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Speaker 3: about yourself and how you deal with illness and relate

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Speaker 3: to your body. Fascinated all that stuff around that because

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Speaker 3: there is that attitude towards sickness. I guess it's saying

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Speaker 3: with cancer. When someone has cancer, we lionize the idea

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Speaker 3: that you're fighting, right, so you're going to have you're

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Speaker 3: a batler, you're fighting. You've got cancer. And cancers obviously

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Speaker 3: are multi multi hued, you know, tapestry of misery, no

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Speaker 3: doubt about that. But there are some cancers that you

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Speaker 3: can't fight, right, But you get diagnosed with.

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Speaker 4: And you know your life is going to be cut short.

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Speaker 3: But you know because of the pressure that there's a

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Speaker 3: virtue in fighting illness.

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Speaker 4: You people go through really difficult treatments and chemotherapy and

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Speaker 4: other treatments that make them sick in the process, and

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Speaker 4: they might eke out a short a bit longer life span,

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Speaker 4: but not quality of life. But if you were to say, actually,

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Speaker 4: I know I'm going to die, there's no way I

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Speaker 4: can be cured. I would rather just live my life

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Speaker 4: and go through the palative process when it happens, but

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to undertake treatment.

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Speaker 3: I think our culture would judge you as somebody who

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Speaker 3: wasn't a fighter, that you weren't prepared to fight the

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Speaker 3: disease that you know, by being a fighter using the

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Speaker 3: frame using the word fight or battling cancer, you know, it.

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Speaker 4: Does suggest that if you don't, then you're a coward.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's the other side of being a fighter's count, right.

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Speaker 4: So I think it's really fascinating people come that do

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Speaker 4: come to terms with their illness and go okay, philosophically,

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Speaker 4: I know this is going to be horrible, but I've

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Speaker 4: come to a point where I'm at peace or I

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Speaker 4: found a certain state of grace in dealing with the

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Speaker 4: fact that I would rather die with this way than

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Speaker 4: put myself through a treatment to prove a point, or

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Speaker 4: to eke out another month or two and be sick

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Speaker 4: the entire time.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's a really interesting way. Do we have

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Speaker 3: to come to terms with our own mortality?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that you're talking about voluntary assisted

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Speaker 2: dying before. So We've had a friend of mine who

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Speaker 2: I actually went to UNI with, who did exercise science,

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Speaker 2: then went and did nursing and then a bunch of

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Speaker 2: other stuff after that.

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Speaker 1: Her name's Nicki Morrison. Shout out to Nikki. She's a

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Speaker 1: straight up angel.

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Speaker 2: She she works with people, so she's a death duel

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Speaker 2: of Francis. So when people want to take that path

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Speaker 2: of assist dying, she facilitates that with them in the home.

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Speaker 2: And it's like I think for some people who when

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Speaker 2: like you said, there is medically no chance of you know,

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Speaker 2: that they are going to recover, just to be able

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Speaker 2: to say, all right, well I'm going to die, I'd

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Speaker 2: rather die on my terms. I'd rather die. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to die in agony. I don't want to die

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Speaker 2: in being humiliated and have someone wipe my ass. And

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Speaker 2: I don't want that. I don't want that. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to be you know. And not that everyone would

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Speaker 2: be embarrassed or neither should they be necessarily, but for

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Speaker 2: some people, you know, I think to be able to

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Speaker 2: make that decision about you know, for some people and

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Speaker 2: certain specific medical circumstances, I understand that, and.

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Speaker 1: I I, yeah, I don't I don't know that I

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Speaker 1: would say no to that.

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Speaker 2: You know, in my own my only thing would be

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Speaker 2: my very religious upbringing, which.

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Speaker 1: Tells me you can't do that.

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Speaker 2: But you know, that whole eternal lake of fire thing, Francis,

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Speaker 2: that's somewhat of a deterrent.

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Speaker 3: It is, it is you know, yeah, that's hard white

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Speaker 3: into a lot of people cray. And it's the reason

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Speaker 3: why you know, we still have this discussion around it,

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Speaker 3: around a system dying and the dignity of sacred, sacred

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Speaker 3: nature of life. I still I still wristle with the

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Speaker 3: tea because as a philosophical.

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Speaker 4: Position around that, if we make those sorts of decisions

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Speaker 4: culturally relative, so you know, we can start if it's

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Speaker 4: not an absolute or empirical idea that all life is

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Speaker 4: stacred or you know, the sancting of life is universal.

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Speaker 4: Then we can start to peel off different areas and

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Speaker 4: in different times, in under different cultural circumstances, political circumstances,

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Speaker 4: we make allowances that we would not have even considered

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Speaker 4: in the past. And so I understand that the cultural

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Speaker 4: relativity argument around well when do we start choosing or

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Speaker 4: how do we make a value judgment about what is

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Speaker 4: dignified living or what is a life worth living? And

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Speaker 4: that becomes a subjective conversation. And you know, you know,

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Speaker 4: if people are the chronically depressed and they don't feel

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Speaker 4: like living anymore, does that then become an issue around

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Speaker 4: the quality of life and should they then allow it

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Speaker 4: to be have access to assistant eye And that's when

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Speaker 4: you get to these culturally relative positions about the value

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Speaker 4: of human life and who's making those rules, who's making

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Speaker 4: that judgment?

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Speaker 3: It's it isn't you know?

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Speaker 4: I know that we're living a world of binary opinions

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Speaker 4: where you're either.

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Speaker 3: For or aget it.

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Speaker 4: I think it's a really difficult situation, a difficult issue

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Speaker 4: that does impose a lot of serious ethical and moral

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Speaker 4: questions that aren't easily answered. I mean, there are cases

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Speaker 4: and as you said, where people are so physically stricten

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Speaker 4: or that is there can be no argument about it.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time, when you start to add

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Speaker 4: that element of about dignity and quality of life, that

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Speaker 4: means different things different.

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Speaker 2: People, And don't you think it's interesting that we do

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Speaker 2: live in this very kind of You've got to have

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Speaker 2: a yes or no, Like how about fuck? I don't know,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't like it's okay, you know, it's like,

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Speaker 2: why do I have to be in one or the

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Speaker 2: other camp? Here's an idea. I'm human and I'm unsure.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to Like, there's also that option I

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Speaker 2: feel it's it's ridiculous that people feel compelled to pressure

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Speaker 2: or leave people in Well, here are your two options.

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Speaker 2: Which of these is? How about listen, Brian? How about

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Speaker 2: neither I need more information or more time or I

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Speaker 2: just you know, I just don't know. As somebody who

401
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Speaker 2: is in his fifties and you've got a dad who's

402
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Speaker 2: not super well at the moment, how are you going

403
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Speaker 2: with that?

404
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Speaker 3: Like?

405
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Speaker 2: Has this been I don't know, has this been a shock?

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Speaker 2: Has this been has it effected perspective in any way.

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Speaker 3: That's interesting. My dad's been sick for a very long time.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: He retired at the age of forty after a workplace

410
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Speaker 4: accident and has been with basically both my parents have

411
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Speaker 4: basically been dealing with a healthcare system for a better

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Speaker 4: part of thirty forty years. And to that end, I'm

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Speaker 4: so glad that they live in Australia where their access

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Speaker 4: is working past people to high quality healthcare is second

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Speaker 4: to none, and that they're looked after with dignity and

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Speaker 4: with great care and with an expertise out on the

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Speaker 4: par with anywhere else in the where we really are

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Speaker 4: truly fully blessed. So that aside that illness or battling

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Speaker 4: the illness and sickness has always been part.

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Speaker 3: Of my life, or dealing with my parents' illness, that's

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Speaker 3: just what we've always done. But as he gets closer

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Speaker 3: to the end, I spend a lot more time with

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Speaker 3: you because I and this is one of the things

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Speaker 3: I would encourage people to do if they're dealing with

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Speaker 3: the situation that you and I are, and that you

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Speaker 3: and I think are both chosing this part. It's easy

427
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Speaker 3: to sort of, I think, not easy to write words.

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Speaker 4: It's tempting to sort of try to pass your way

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Speaker 4: through it and go, look, i'll do a little bit here,

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Speaker 4: I'll do a little bit there, and I hope someone

431
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Speaker 4: else can get up there, or you know, I'll try

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Speaker 4: to cut corners around looking at my parents or hope

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Speaker 4: one of my siblings picks it up, you know, because

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Speaker 4: it's confronting, right, It's time consuming, and you spend a

435
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Speaker 4: lot of time sitting around hospital wars or waiting for

436
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Speaker 4: appointments and around other sick people, and traveling to and

437
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Speaker 4: from appointments in cars, and you know, it's a grind.

438
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Speaker 4: It's a grind, right, It's hard work. But I'm glad

439
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Speaker 4: that at a certain point when I was trying to

440
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 4: do it in a way that was, you know, collaborative

441
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 4: with other people, I just thought, this is too hard,

442
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 4: and I'm going to regret not just buying him totally.

443
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 3: It is.

444
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 4: So My siblings are great, and we all work together

445
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 4: on it, but I just look, as much as I can.

446
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 4: I will take him to his medical appointments, just out

447
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 4: of when not making a call.

448
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 3: Are you free? Are you free? You know? Because that

449
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 3: gets exhausting of itself. If I can't, and there be

450
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 3: times I can't because I have a job that takes

451
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 3: me all over the place. We'll know in in vance

452
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 3: and we'll work it out.

453
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 4: But if i'm if i'm here, or if I can

454
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 4: make time, I'll do it. And that's just taken a

455
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 4: lot of stress out.

456
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 3: And it's also meant that I spent a lot of

457
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 3: time with him, and you know, you get to know

458
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 3: him a lot better. You know, he's got the vascular

459
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 3: he's got that beast the dimension, which is a version

460
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 3: of the disease which affects his short term memory, but

461
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 3: his long term memory is quite vivid. And so he's

462
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 3: been telling me stories.

463
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 4: About his young life and his childhood and growing up

464
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 4: that he never shared with me before, which I've recalled.

465
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 4: I've recorded some of those just on my phone, just conversations,

466
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 4: so that I've got those to keep, and.

467
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 3: That's been really important.

468
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 4: It's given me another tour understanding of who he is

469
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 4: and the challenges he faced as he as a kid,

470
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 4: you know, growing up basically kicked out at home at

471
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 4: the age of twelve and living with friends and just

472
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 4: living on his wits most of his life.

473
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 3: But then there's another moments that just just good fun.

474
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 3: Like we sit together day we were waiting for his

475
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 3: doctor and dragged on and on and on. So I

476
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 3: just get out my phone now and go on Instagram

477
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 3: and find my favorite comedy clips and we just sit there,

478
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 3: you clicking through instag comedy stand up thirty forty second

479
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 3: bits of people say hey, Dad, look at this, just

480
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 3: pissing ourselves laughing, and it's just a lot of fun.

481
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 4: We we're idiots in the in the hospital waiting room.

482
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 4: I don't know because there's noise and everything going. I said,

483
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 4: I just put it on and go. I look at

484
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 4: his day and he's having a great old bally laughing.

485
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 4: I think, well, this is fun, I mean, be of

486
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 4: a shit.

487
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 3: Situation by laughing at a bit of day that on

488
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 3: comedy or some old you know, really.

489
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: Speaking of Catholics.

490
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 2: I you know, it's funny, like yesterday or this week's

491
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 2: been really busy for me, you know, just lots of

492
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: work and lots of stuff, and today fair bit on.

493
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 2: And I got on the phone with mom before as

494
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 2: I was telling you, and like she's a bit stressed

495
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 2: about some stuff. And then the more we talked, like

496
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 2: it was clear that she was really stressed. And then

497
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: it's funny how when you know, like with me, there's

498
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: no wife, there's no grandkids to support, there's no of course,

499
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 2: and I'm fine with all that. There's no siblings, and

500
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: so it's all pretty much me, which is fine. But

501
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 2: then you get to the point where you're like, oh,

502
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 2: so this conversation I'm in right now with my mum,

503
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 2: this is more important than all the other things I've

504
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: got to do today, Like this is what needs to

505
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: have my energy and my attention and my focus. And then,

506
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 2: as I was saying before, Mama is so worried about bills,

507
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: not that they don't have the dough to pay them,

508
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 2: but she doesn't have the skills, right, And I just said,

509
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,479
Speaker 2: you know, all right, I'll come up tomorrow.

510
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: We'll just come up tomorrow and we'll sort it all out.

511
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 2: And it's funny how when things are going for me,

512
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 2: when things are going shit with my mum and dad,

513
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: it's like all the other problems aren't problems absolutely, you know,

514
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: It's like it just gives me a level of clarity

515
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 2: and perspective about what actually matters. Because for me anyway,

516
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 2: because I don't have a wife and kids, so I

517
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: guess they're the most important people in the world to me.

518
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 2: And and I don't know if people feel this, but

519
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 2: I feel like it's almost like now I'm the dad, yes,

520
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: and I feel like I am responsible and if I'm

521
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 2: not responsible, no one will be. And it's just I'm

522
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: not at the point where I'm making decisions for them,

523
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 2: but I'm thinking, Okay, I think we need to talk

524
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,239
Speaker 2: about this thing now, and they will never bring it up.

525
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: You know.

526
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: It's like they live in this big old house in

527
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: Latrobe Valley on a big old black land with fucking

528
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: way too much stuff and way too much space. I'm like,

529
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: you two dither around about the twenty square feet and

530
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 2: the rest of the mansion is fucking gathering us, right,

531
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: But it's.

532
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 6: Oh no, no, no, no, I'm like, but it's so

533
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 6: hard because you know what that is as well, and

534
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 6: I'm you know, doing this at the moment with my

535
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 6: dad going into care is it's a.

536
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 4: Massive change for them, and that's a that's a signifier

537
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 4: of their own, you know, their own journey that they're

538
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 4: getting to a point where you know, they're in the

539
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 4: twilight of the years.

540
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: So it's pretty confronting. But I know what you mean.

541
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 4: It's also you're just not in a position to maintain

542
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 4: this place anymore, Like you know, it's just too big

543
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 4: and it's but demands too much of you. So yeah,

544
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 4: that's really hard. I do have power of attorney with dad,

545
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 4: so I do have to make some of those decisions.

546
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 4: But I'm pretty clear headed about that. And the other

547
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 4: thing I would say to people who are when your

548
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 4: time comes.

549
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 3: To deal with this is get on top of that

550
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 3: really quickly. Talk to your parents, talking siblings.

551
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 4: You know, my siblings and I have a really solid

552
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 4: and great relationship when it comes to dealing with these issues.

553
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 4: And I'm really really lucky, really really lucky to have

554
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 4: four siblings that we all get it and we all

555
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 4: support each other and despite all the different things are

556
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 4: going on our own lives. Because not everybody has that right.

557
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 4: And if you do have issues with siblings that I've seen,

558
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 4: it hurd a lot or other people in your family

559
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 4: who don't understand, you know, what's.

560
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 3: Going on, or they've got their own hurt and their.

561
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 4: Own feelings that they haven't really dealt with, and it

562
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 4: starts to manifest itself around the situation with the parents.

563
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: Oh, it could be help, it could be hell so.

564
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: And that's where those flash points become really important, where

565
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 3: you haven't.

566
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 4: Established who has power of attorney in a situation like that,

567
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 4: and you're trying to have a collegiate conversation with your

568
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 4: brothers and sisters or an uncle or an auntie, and

569
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 4: nobody has the ultimate deciding power to decide because you

570
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 4: haven't done your power of attorney, and it just gets messy.

571
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 4: So I implore you, if you're going to go and

572
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 4: involved in a caring role for an aging parent who's

573
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 4: at some stage is going to need someone to make

574
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 4: decisions for them, have that conversation now. Get it out

575
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 4: of the way, because there'll come a time when you're

576
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 4: going to need it. And that's one of the things

577
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 4: I've learned is I guess the theme of this is

578
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 4: that we're embracing the aging and I guess mortality in

579
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 4: a way.

580
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: We're going to run.

581
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 4: We're going to run towards it when we see it

582
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 4: when we need to help people, because there's no getting

583
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 4: away from it and the only way through is through,

584
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 4: and to do it well, to do it well for

585
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 4: both the person who you might be caring for nursing

586
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 4: and for yourself. You have to embrace it. You have

587
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 4: to embrace it and take it on as painful and

588
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 4: as confronting as it is.

589
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: As somebody who never has to kind of navigate or

590
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: negotiate the sibling thing, right, and who's going to do this?

591
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: And that's not something I have to contend with or

592
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: have the pleasure or the whatever. I don't know what

593
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 2: the right term is, but I've had, as you kind

594
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: of alluded to, lots of conversations with friends who've gone

595
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 2: that with parents and the money grabbing sick who is like,

596
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: all about the dough. I'm like, what, oh, yeah, it's

597
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: all about I'm like, oh my god, like that that

598
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: just it just repulses me so much. But I get

599
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: that it happens. But the idea that you know, dad's

600
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: on his way out or mum's on her way out

601
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: or whatever, and the kids are fighting over the money

602
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: rather than loving the mum and dad, and just like

603
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: it never I mean, well, I never really thought about

604
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: it till I started hearing about it, and I hear

605
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: about it quite a lot.

606
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 4: It is one of the great revealers of human character

607
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 4: is dealing with mortality's people who find that their brother

608
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 4: and sister. And you know, I've heard this twice in

609
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 4: the last three or four years from people that I

610
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 4: know who had found out that their older brother or

611
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 4: sister has been nursing a greed for many years and

612
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 4: expects it. You know, I've always done a certain thing

613
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 4: in relation to the parents' situation and the estate that

614
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 4: they never dreamed possible because they feel entitled to a

615
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: certain situation being settled in their favor. It's it reveals

616
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,479
Speaker 4: character about greed and you know, the desperation to want things.

617
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 4: But also I guess in some ways, you know, people

618
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 4: carry a lot of hurt around and it manifests in

619
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 4: this way. When a parent dies. It's it is quite

620
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 4: it's quite horrifying. And that's why it's good to try

621
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 4: to have these conversations early and make sure that everyone

622
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 4: understands where they're at. And sometimes it's good not to

623
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 4: have a lot to worry about. By my parents, there's

624
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 4: no fighting over much.

625
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm not getting rich off Mary at any stage,

626
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: So God God blessed that little But you know, about well,

627
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: I did hear recently of somebody that I know quite

628
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: well well and there's a member in their family one

629
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 2: of the children who is who was basically on dad's

630
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 2: deathbed trying to get him to change the will.

631
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: Like what kind of fucking human does that?

632
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: Oh wow, you know.

633
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: Like pleading his case.

634
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: But you know this also it comes back to what

635
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: we were talking about earlier too, which is.

636
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 4: About the efficacy and that the integrity of the right

637
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 4: to assist to dying because one of the other issues that.

638
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: Is very permanent in this is elder elderly abuse and

639
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: financial abuse older people. So if someone gets if someone

640
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 3: is sick or incapacitated and their person who has the

641
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 3: power of attorney.

642
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 4: Decides, maybe against the wishes of the people they have

643
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 4: at their power at because they have a financial need

644
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 4: or they've got an impulse to acquire something quickly, that

645
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 4: they go down. If we were to say, well, that person,

646
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 4: they wouldn't have the right to go down.

647
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 3: It's just the dying route at some point. If things

648
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 3: change at the moment, it's a lot more stringent around that,

649
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 3: and the person who would be subject to it's just

650
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 3: the dying has to go through some very rigorous processes

651
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: before they are put on that program. But you know,

652
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 3: once again, everything's relative and cultural relativity might mean at

653
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 3: some point he's just going, well, this person's in.

654
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 4: A bed and you know, it's not not really engaged

655
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 4: in the world, and you're the you're the power of attorney.

656
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 4: You have the right to turn off the machine, you know,

657
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 4: and that that.

658
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: That happens all the time.

659
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 4: That's sort of not the spousal abuse or financial abuse

660
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 4: of older people exploring older people because of their financial circumstances.

661
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 3: You know, that's a real issue. It just it's sometimes

662
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 3: events like this can bring out the very best in

663
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 3: us in the way we handle these situations, but it

664
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 3: can also bring out the very worst.

665
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: At the moment.

666
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: I my thinking around my mom and dad is I

667
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: want to within reason, I want to see them as

668
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 2: much as I can, and because there's going to be

669
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: a time where I'm going to wish they are around

670
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: to annoy.

671
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 3: Me, you know what I mean, you'll hear their voices

672
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 3: in your head.

673
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be there forever. But yeah, I just think,

674
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: you know, I know it sounds cliche, but just to

675
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: just to be able to spend time with them while

676
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: they're still here and you know, all that kind of stuff.

677
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: So I guess I'm a little bit philosophical around that.

678
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: But it also you know, there's a real practical component

679
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: to how do I help them manage whatever it is

680
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: the last one two five ten years of their existence,

681
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: because you know there's apart from all the medical stuff

682
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: and all the psychological and emotional and sociological stuff, there's

683
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 2: still there's all the practical things that need to be navigated,

684
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: which is it gets quite messy, you.

685
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 3: Know it does. But as we said, there's no other

686
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: way through them through it, so onwards we go to

687
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: it we do.

688
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: Indeed, now are you heading off? You're heading off to

689
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: see your dad after this?

690
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 4: Am I life to the old fella, listen to his

691
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 4: bad dad jokes, which you know, concert with those still, so.

692
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 2: You're going to one day you're going to miss them, mate,

693
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 2: So you just celebrate them while they're still coming out,

694
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: while they're still coming out.

695
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: You too, mate, I appreciate you. I hope things all

696
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: right with you.

697
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: Will say goodbye affair, but for the moment, Francis Michael

698
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: Kevin Patrick, John O.

699
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dante's Shakira, thanks for having a