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Speaker 1: I got you, Bloody Champions. Welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: my favorite, well, my mum's favorite podcast. You Project, Tiffany

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Speaker 1: and Cooked two times in one day, you and me

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Speaker 1: two times in one day. It must be like fucking

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Speaker 1: Christmas for you.

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Speaker 2: Hey, isn't it ever?

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Speaker 1: Isn't it ever? And hasn't Mary got great taste in podcasts?

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Speaker 1: By the way? Doesn't she?

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Speaker 2: Though?

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Speaker 1: Doesn't she? Though? You probably can't get enough of me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like cocaine with specs and big nose.

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Speaker 2: Look, you're not wrong, You're not wrong.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, like sociological cocaine. Just inhale me and just

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Speaker 1: Amy's like what the fuck? Amy's like what what? What

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Speaker 1: is this book? I can't believe it never made me

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Speaker 1: do this?

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Speaker 2: Hi?

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Speaker 1: Amy?

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Speaker 2: Hello, I'm just loving your accents right now. You're so

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Speaker 2: incredibly Australian to me. I just I've lived here for

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Speaker 2: ten years and still a good as the accent still

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Speaker 2: gets me.

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Speaker 1: There's no accents here, there's the only accent to you, bro.

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Speaker 1: I hate to I mean, I don't want to raign

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Speaker 1: on your fucking accent parade, but tiff and I don't

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Speaker 1: have an accent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely completely must only be me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it is funny, isn't it, Because I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's when I travel overseas, people often say, oh, I

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Speaker 1: love your accent. I'm like whatever, I'm like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, we don't we don't realize we're a

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Speaker 1: little What does it sound like? Is it kind of

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Speaker 1: Is it an abrasive accent for the.

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Speaker 2: Rest No, of course not. I love it. My husband

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Speaker 2: has got a pick of the accent, and my kids

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Speaker 2: have a wonderful blend. Of my little girls there, she's

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Speaker 2: half Bogan and half English, so she's got this beautiful,

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Speaker 2: like really pick Ossie accent sometimes and then really pummy

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Speaker 2: Queen's English sometimes, and she veers between both of them,

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Speaker 2: and I just think it's brilliant.

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Speaker 1: That's how often do you go home and take the

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Speaker 1: kids with you?

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Speaker 2: Since pre COVID because of the price of flight, and

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Speaker 2: also because my kids are three, five and seven and

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Speaker 2: doing the long haul with the full gang feels like torture.

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Speaker 2: So I get all my family to come here and

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Speaker 2: stay with us and said, which they absolutely love, rather

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Speaker 2: than go back to the you know, English climate. But

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Speaker 2: hopefully next year maybe or the following year, we'll go

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Speaker 2: back there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, without me reading something off a website or

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Speaker 1: a bit of paper, Can you just give my audience

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Speaker 1: that just the amy snapshot? Who are you? Just a

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Speaker 1: quick kind of you know, just however many years you've

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Speaker 1: been alive in a minute or two, no pressure.

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Speaker 2: I journalist, editor, author, writing, coach, podcast writer, all the words,

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Speaker 2: all the things with the words, specializing in mental health,

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Speaker 2: lived experiences, you know, breaking down the stigma around sharing

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Speaker 2: our stories in a really empowering and productive way. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: everything that comes under that umbrella is what I do.

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Speaker 1: What kind of kid were you?

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Speaker 2: Oh? A great question? Oh do you know what? I think?

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Speaker 2: It goes into two like two chapters of my childhood

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Speaker 2: and life, as most of us do, like a very expressive,

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Speaker 2: confident kid and then a very shy, like self conscious

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Speaker 2: teenager and young adult. So really like experienced the two

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Speaker 2: sides of it. And so much of my adult life

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Speaker 2: and my healing and my therapy has been about rediscovering

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Speaker 2: that early version of myself, the one who was like

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Speaker 2: so confident in her voice and who she was and

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Speaker 2: showing up in the world in this really true to

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Speaker 2: herself way. And it's been about like going back to

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Speaker 2: that and like most of us, right, Like the bridge

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Speaker 2: between that version of myself and the later one was

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Speaker 2: of course, trauma and things happen that, you know, especially

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Speaker 2: for me early on, made me really like question the

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Speaker 2: world around me and really shook up my self confidence.

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Speaker 2: So I think part of my work as a journalist,

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Speaker 2: definitely as an editor, has been how to help people

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Speaker 2: to find their voice and really feel confident in sharing

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Speaker 2: who they are.

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Speaker 1: I know you work a lot in the healing space,

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Speaker 1: trauma space, mental emotional health space, my PhD. My PhD

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Speaker 1: is in self awareness kind of, it's in a think

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Speaker 1: or mede perception and matter accuracy. What's the what's the

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Speaker 1: space between your identity and who people think you are?

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Speaker 1: Like who you think you are and who others think

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Speaker 1: you are? This is literally my research. I'm just interested.

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Speaker 1: How close is that?

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Speaker 2: Well, it all comes back to the stories that we

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Speaker 2: tell about ourselves and the stories that we believe about ourselves.

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Speaker 2: And I'm really interested, particularly at the moment, about memory

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Speaker 2: and the truth of our memories, you know, especially when

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Speaker 2: you're talking about childhood, because so many of us stories

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Speaker 2: we tell about ourselves and then tell the world about ourselves,

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Speaker 2: especially if you're a writer, or someone who has social

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Speaker 2: media is all based on so much of the story

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Speaker 2: of our childhood, but our memories can be so inaccurate.

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Speaker 2: And you know, you look at two siblings who brought

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Speaker 2: up in the same home, experience the same experiences, and

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Speaker 2: one is traumatized by them and one isn't, and you know,

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Speaker 2: it's really and then that informs who we become as adults,

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Speaker 2: or who we think we are as adults, and then

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Speaker 2: that informs how what we tell the world about ourselves.

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Speaker 2: So even you know, I work a lot in the

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Speaker 2: mental health space, and you know, saying I'm a person,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm an anxious person versus I'm a person

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Speaker 2: who experiences anxious episodes or like what we pathologize in

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Speaker 2: terms of our behavior. You know, I've experienced health anxiety,

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Speaker 2: which is a very normal reaction to events in my life.

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Speaker 2: Like I was widowed when I was twenty three, my

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Speaker 2: husband died very suddenly of cancer when I was a teenager,

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Speaker 2: and my dad was paralyzed from cancer and had to

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Speaker 2: learn to walk again, And my very understandable response to

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Speaker 2: that was to develop health anxiety as a way to

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Speaker 2: feel safe. Now I can spend the rest of my

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Speaker 2: life saying I'm an anxious person, or I can say no,

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Speaker 2: I had this very understandable response to a set of

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Speaker 2: circumstances that I experienced, and how I see that is

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Speaker 2: going to inform how I go and live the rest

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Speaker 2: of my life. Am I living the rest of my

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Speaker 2: life as an anxious person? Personally? I choose no, because

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Speaker 2: I don't see myself as that. Am I going about

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Speaker 2: in my writing writing that I'm an anxious person? No?

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Speaker 2: But you know, you can see the difference in like

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Speaker 2: such a small, like one sentence, I'm an anxious person

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Speaker 2: or I experienced an anxious episode as a result of

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Speaker 2: my life experiences. And I think that's the power words

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Speaker 2: and storytelling and non fiction right based on lived experiences,

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Speaker 2: it had such power to change how we see who

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Speaker 2: we are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that, And I also love the idea

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Speaker 1: of opening the door on the understanding that two people

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Speaker 1: go through the same experience or very similar experience, like

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the siblings, one is traumatized, one is

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Speaker 1: not traumatized, and then that kind of opens a bit

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Speaker 1: of an awareness door on oh, well, what caused the trauma?

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Speaker 1: Because if one person is traumatized and one is not

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Speaker 1: is it about the stimulus, about the event, the situation,

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Speaker 1: or is it about my individual response and interaction. And

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Speaker 1: as you said, my stories, you know, it's like if

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Speaker 1: you believe you're in danger but you're not, or your

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Speaker 1: body will respond as though you are actually in danger

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that in the real world here there

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Speaker 1: is no threat. So I guess it's trying to understand

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Speaker 1: on a physiological, psychological, emotional level that like the intertwining

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Speaker 1: of anxiety. You know, It's like when I believe something bad,

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Speaker 1: even if the belief is flawed, then I have that experience.

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Speaker 1: It's like our body doesn't know when we're dreaming. That's

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Speaker 1: why my heart rate goes up and my blood pressure

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Speaker 1: increases and my sympathetic nerve system switches on and all

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Speaker 1: of those things happen despite the fact that I'm not

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Speaker 1: actually running away from a bad guy down a dark alley.

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Speaker 1: My body doesn't know that's not real, you know. And

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Speaker 1: there's this, yeah, I guess, really trying to understand I

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Speaker 1: think with anxiety and depression and mental health, not that

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Speaker 1: it's a solution, but opening the door on understanding it

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Speaker 1: is definitely part of a.

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Speaker 2: Solution, absolutely, And I think that's where the telling of

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Speaker 2: lived experience is important, like absolutely, Like as a journalist,

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Speaker 2: I want to interview the experts and the psychologists and

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Speaker 2: psychotherapists and the academics, but I also really want to

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Speaker 2: hear from people who have gone through a real experience

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Speaker 2: about what works for them, doesn't work for them, how

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Speaker 2: they deal with their triggers. And I think in particularly

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Speaker 2: in media and reporting of mental wellness, it's that mixture

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Speaker 2: of the academics and experts and the lived experiences which

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Speaker 2: is really going to move the needle on how we

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Speaker 2: understand mental wellness and the spectrum of all of it

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Speaker 2: and how it really looks in life. Because when I

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Speaker 2: wrote my first book, I was twenty three and I'd

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Speaker 2: just been widowed, and at the time it was a

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Speaker 2: super controversial memoir about how I became very promiscuous and

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Speaker 2: use sex as therapy. So the daily Mail the headline

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Speaker 2: read and it was all about like young widoweddom and

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Speaker 2: loss and grief and how it shows up in very

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Speaker 2: different ways. And at the time, all the self help

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Speaker 2: books around grief were just very like ten steps formulaic,

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Speaker 2: and they certainly didn't include sex, addiction, or eating disorders

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Speaker 2: or you know, all the very different ways that we

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Speaker 2: deal with grief. And it's because of the telling of

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Speaker 2: lived experience that we can see, like there isn't this

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Speaker 2: cookie cutter way of self help that is like going

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Speaker 2: to fit everybody. We need to look at the full

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Speaker 2: spectrum of how we cope with adversity to actually help

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Speaker 2: people to overcome it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love that. The I mean, the truth

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Speaker 1: is that there's almost no cookie cutter approach for anything,

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Speaker 1: whether or not it's food, overcoming or dealing with stress

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Speaker 1: or trauma, whether or not it's building a business, writing

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Speaker 1: a book. It's not like there's an absolute three four

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Speaker 1: ten step formula that's universally optimal for every individual. And so,

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Speaker 1: as you said, it's like, I think it's good to

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Speaker 1: open the door on the science and the research to

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Speaker 1: a point, and I'm a researcher, but also to go, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's good in theory and in you know, but like,

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Speaker 1: here's what's happening on the ground with real humans who

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Speaker 1: are going through real stuff, and try to, you know,

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Speaker 1: see what resonates in the middle of all of that.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of a lady called what is her name?

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Speaker 1: What is her name? Abigail Shreier. She wrote a book

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Speaker 1: recently called Bad Therapy. Really interesting. I think you'd like

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Speaker 1: to at least have a look at it. Also a journo,

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Speaker 1: a researcher. It's called bad Therapy, and she talks about

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Speaker 1: the fact that for a lot of people, obviously talk

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Speaker 1: therapy is great. She also said, for some people it

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Speaker 1: makes it worse. Right, It's not like there's this, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know what you need to do. You need to

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Speaker 1: sit down and talk to somebody. Some people and by

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Speaker 1: the way, everyone, I'm not saying talk therapy is bad

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Speaker 1: at all. I'm saying for some people, it doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: to work or be optimal. For some people, when they

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Speaker 1: sit and basically every Tuesday sit down with you know,

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Speaker 1: doctor whoever, they kind of relight the fuse of that trauma,

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Speaker 1: and then for the next two or three days they're

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Speaker 1: in a worse place than before they rocked up. Rather

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Speaker 1: than acknowledging what's happened and not putting their head in

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Speaker 1: the sand, but just saying, all right, right now where

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Speaker 1: I am, what is the best use of my mental

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Speaker 1: and emotional energy and my attention, And for some people,

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Speaker 1: you know, just getting on with shit. Is what works

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Speaker 1: for other people. Going and talking on a regular basis

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Speaker 1: is what works. And I think, you know, that's the

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Speaker 1: danger of any cookie cutter approach, I guess.

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Speaker 2: And that's really where the work I do as a

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Speaker 2: writing coach comes into it. So I work with people

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Speaker 2: to you know, turn their lived experiences into books and

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Speaker 2: articles and podcasts and whatever they dream of doing TV shows.

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Speaker 2: And it's a real fine line between sharing your story

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Speaker 2: and like flogging it to death in a way that

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Speaker 2: doesn't ever let you move on. So like I want

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Speaker 2: people to write the book, but then, like I talk about,

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Speaker 2: we need to close the loop on it, because if

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Speaker 2: we don't and we just leave it open, like I

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Speaker 2: can spend you know, the next part of my life

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Speaker 2: talking over and over again about how I was widowed

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Speaker 2: and that awful moment my husband died, and I can

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Speaker 2: just get stuck in that trauma loop forever. But at

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Speaker 2: a point I had to close it because I knew

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Speaker 2: I wanted to go on. I've got another partner, I've

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Speaker 2: got three kids, and I want my life to be

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Speaker 2: so much more than that. So I write work with

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Speaker 2: my writers to you know, create this beautiful book about

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Speaker 2: some of their hardest experiences in a way that will

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Speaker 2: a help them to heal and be help the people

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Speaker 2: that read it to heal. But also let's close the

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Speaker 2: loop then and find a way for you actually to

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Speaker 2: move on with your life after that, because like you

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Speaker 2: were saying, you know, you can sit in therapy for

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Speaker 2: the rest of your life and hash over the toughest experiences,

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Speaker 2: or you can find a way to close the loop

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Speaker 2: and move forward.

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Speaker 1: And I think sometimes it's like even though like let's say,

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Speaker 1: you know, which we're not going to bit, Let's say

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Speaker 1: we did a deep dive into losing your husband, and

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Speaker 1: we might chat about it, but you know, let's say

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Speaker 1: we did a podcast on that. Even though that you

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Speaker 1: might not be instructive in any way, it's just in

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Speaker 1: the sharing of your experience and your journey and your

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Speaker 1: therapy and your you know, revelations and insights, breakdowns, breakthroughs,

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Speaker 1: all of that where someone else kind of that's for them,

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Speaker 1: that's part of their therapy and healing without you telling

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Speaker 1: anyone what to do. I think sometimes it's just in

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Speaker 1: the going like, oh, wow, Amy went through something that's

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't wish on anyone, and oh, she's kind of good.

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Speaker 1: Now she's kind of normal, she's got three kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she's not sitting in the corner a broken mess up.

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Speaker 1: There's okay, So it's possible. I think that gives people

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Speaker 1: hope absolutely.

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Speaker 2: You know, my first book came out like twenty years

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Speaker 2: ago now, which is Bomkers or fifteen years ago something,

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Speaker 2: and I have people, you know, messaging me now who've

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Speaker 2: just looked me up, found my Instagram and now you know,

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Speaker 2: there I am with my kids on the beach. And

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Speaker 2: they always messaged me to like, I'm so happy for

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Speaker 2: you because the last thing they read was a year

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Speaker 2: after my husband's death, and I'm you know, still crawling

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Speaker 2: out of grief, and now they're genuinely so happy to

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Speaker 2: see that your life doesn't have to end with that,

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Speaker 2: you know, toughest moment when it does sometimes feel like

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Speaker 2: it is going to end and they're going to be

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Speaker 2: there can be no way forward. And I also think

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Speaker 2: I really want to break down shame about how we

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Speaker 2: do cope because we all look back on these toughest

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Speaker 2: times and we drunk too much, or you know, we

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Speaker 2: were kind of selfish sometimes, or we said things that

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Speaker 2: hurt other people in grief or in loss or in heartbreak,

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Speaker 2: and we can really beat ourselves up about it. And

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Speaker 2: I always always talk about a letter I got after

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Speaker 2: my first book came out, and it was from like

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Speaker 2: a woman in her eighties who's been widowed in the

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Speaker 2: war and she'd gone on to kind of sleep around

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Speaker 2: and have all these affairs, and she said, I've been

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Speaker 2: living with my shame and guilt for you know, forty

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Speaker 2: years about how I acted to being widowed, and now

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Speaker 2: I finally feel like I could forgive myself. And I

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Speaker 2: was like that, that is it. This is why we

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Speaker 2: put ourselves out there, even when we're scared, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we have this vulnerability hanking over and our hands are

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Speaker 2: shaking as we press posts or whatever we're doing. This

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Speaker 2: is why we do it because we can really have

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Speaker 2: a ripple effect on someone by sharing our own story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that. And I think sometimes when you're

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Speaker 1: in the middle of pain, darkness, whatever, you just reach

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Speaker 1: for whatever is going to give you some whether it's

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Speaker 1: booze or whether it's sex, or whether it's fucking Netflix

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Speaker 1: silliness or I don't know, but you reach for something

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Speaker 1: that's going to pull you out of that, even for

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Speaker 1: a moment just to that.

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Speaker 2: And it works until it doesn't, right like it does.

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Speaker 2: I certainly don't say I regret anything. It absolutely works

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Speaker 2: until it doesn't. And I think the mindfulness is about

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Speaker 2: knowing that moment that it isn't working anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, do you think that? Well, it's good to

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Speaker 1: listen to you read your books, you know, listen to

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Speaker 1: podcasts like mine and whatever. You know, go to workshops,

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Speaker 1: go to therapy, and do you think we trust ourselves enough? Though?

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Speaker 1: Like I feel sometimes we would rather have someone else

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Speaker 1: tell us what to do rather than tap into that intuitive,

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Speaker 1: instinctive wisdom that I think we all have that intelligence

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Speaker 1: that I don't know, you know, that that stuff that

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Speaker 1: we can't explain, that that high level of intuition.

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Speaker 2: I think you're totally right, yes, And I think that's

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Speaker 2: where you know to link to the other podcast I

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Speaker 2: write this space, which is a mindfulness podcast. That's where

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Speaker 2: you know meditation and mindfulness. And it sounds like such

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Speaker 2: a cliche, and I am the person you know who's

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Speaker 2: always telling everyone to meditate, But this is why. Because

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Speaker 2: until we do learn to sit with ourselves and trust ourselves,

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Speaker 2: we can read all the books and sit in therapy

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Speaker 2: and fork it out with everyone. But until we literally

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Speaker 2: do learn to go inwards and say, like, what is

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Speaker 2: my body telling me? What is you know, your physical

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Speaker 2: sensations are such a guide for if you can you

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Speaker 2: know you were talking about earlier about kind of the

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Speaker 2: force fheares around us and our body reacting to the

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Speaker 2: misconception of fear. If we can pour that back and

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Speaker 2: actually go, no, what am I feeling genuinely in this moment?

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Speaker 2: If I take away the chatter all around me, then

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Speaker 2: we can often find a clearer way forward. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm the person that I didn't meditate right after my

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Speaker 2: husband died. Like those those are the times when we

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Speaker 2: don't want to look with it. It's really scary to

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Speaker 2: sit in silence, which is why we turn outwards to

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Speaker 2: all the podcasts and all the books and everything else.

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Speaker 2: But if we can find an attainable way to meditate,

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Speaker 2: which is what the space is all about, in a

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Speaker 2: relatable way to meditate, then you know, that's when, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we can start to trust ourselves a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: I think also, you know that when people think about meditation,

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Speaker 1: not always, but a lot of people think meditation, you know,

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Speaker 1: cross legged, you know, finger tips, touchings, you know, in

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Speaker 1: some kind of Eastern pose, you know, or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: I'm shit at that. I can't do that, I get

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Speaker 1: you know, my mind is like a dog with three dicks.

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Speaker 1: It's busy up there. I can't sit still right, I'm

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Speaker 1: you know. But I can get into a similar you know,

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Speaker 1: like turning down the volume on my mind, like to

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Speaker 1: get like stepping out of the mayhem and into the

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Speaker 1: calm a little bit when I'm doing you know, when

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Speaker 1: i'm training, when I'm working out, when i'm I've been

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Speaker 1: riding motorbikes since i was five. When I'm on a motorbike,

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Speaker 1: I'm very which you would think you shouldn't be calm,

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Speaker 1: but I'm extremely calm. In music, I'm very calm, and

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Speaker 1: I think I think for people it's also finding the

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Speaker 1: meditation or the tool that will turn off that sympathetic

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Speaker 1: nervous system, turn on the parasympathetic calm the farm, you know,

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Speaker 1: get them just lower all that kind of noise, be

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Speaker 1: that physical, mental, or emotional noise, and not think, oh shit,

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Speaker 1: I can't meditate. I can't sit on the floor with

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Speaker 1: my legs crossed and meditate. I need to try harder.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't really work.

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Speaker 2: Oh exactly. You know, I'm really lucky my parents taught

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Speaker 2: me to meditate when I was fifteen after my dad's

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Speaker 2: cancer diagnosis. He's speaking of accents. He's you know, from

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Speaker 2: a western London family, like you know, pretty gangster. Don't

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Speaker 2: tell anyone, but I'm not him. He was like the

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Speaker 2: black sheep and when off the university, became an engineer.

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Speaker 2: But before that, you know, he certainly was not raised

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Speaker 2: in any kind of spiritual background, with any kind of

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Speaker 2: religion or meditation. They would have thought it was complete bananas.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, after he gets got sick, as

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Speaker 2: many people do, he would have tried anything to survive,

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Speaker 2: and so someone introduced him to reiki as a way

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Speaker 2: to you know, just soothe the symptoms side effects of chemo,

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Speaker 2: and through that he started meditating, and then he taught

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Speaker 2: me as a teenager, which I'm just so grateful for

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Speaker 2: because this was long before meditation was trendy or talked

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Speaker 2: about or anybody you know, really did it. And I'm

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Speaker 2: lucky he taught me open eyed meditation initially, so my

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Speaker 2: first experience of meditation was like just being out in

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Speaker 2: the world, softening your gaze, focusing on something on the

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Speaker 2: horizon and just seeing if you can focus on that

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Speaker 2: site or that noise instead of all the chatter, and

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Speaker 2: you know, just really take away like the multisensory experience

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Speaker 2: of everything going on and see how focused we can be.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's what I'd take into my meditation,

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Speaker 2: Like I rarely just sit in silence. I am normally,

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Speaker 2: you know, with my kids or in the car or

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Speaker 2: in a noisy cafe, And it's how you can make

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Speaker 2: that a meditative experience. And like my heart, like you,

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Speaker 2: he would never if I said sit down and clear

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Speaker 2: your mind, which I wouldn't do because that's not what

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Speaker 2: I think meditation is. But he would just say no.

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Speaker 2: But he's spearfishes and to him, you know, when he's

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Speaker 2: tracking a fish out in the ocean, like he's hyper

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Speaker 2: focus and he's not thinking of anything else. Or when

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Speaker 2: he's surfing, that's his meditation to him. You know, when

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Speaker 2: I'm hiking with the kids and you know we're just

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Speaker 2: listening to the sound of our footsteps breaking through the

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Speaker 2: branches on the ground, like that's meditation to us. So

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Speaker 2: there's so many ways that it can be, and we

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Speaker 2: really need to break away from the idea that it

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Speaker 2: is sitting cross legged and aming, because you know that

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Speaker 2: works for some people but not for most people.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I've got a few philosophical questions for you. Ready. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what is something that like a revelation or an insight

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Speaker 1: or an ye hard moment in the last couple of

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Speaker 1: years that's kind of blown you away, Like a revelation,

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Speaker 1: a realization something that you didn't know, or an awareness

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Speaker 1: that you gained which has impacted the way that you

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Speaker 1: think can do and be and create, if anything, I.

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Speaker 2: Love that one of the big ones. And this is

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Speaker 2: such a huge topic, but I'll try and summarize it's

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Speaker 2: as much as I can is fine, and all of

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Speaker 2: ours over identification with suffering. So it's really interesting because

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Speaker 2: my career really was springboarded in a big way by

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Speaker 2: sharing my story of the worst day of my life

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Speaker 2: when my husband died. And it's very interesting to be

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Speaker 2: valued so highly for that and then to and in

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Speaker 2: a world where you know, bad new cells and we

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00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 2: do love to hear about other people suffering, and then

433
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 2: to get to a place to actually place of value

434
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: on saying I'm a happy person, I have a good life,

435
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: this was a good day. I'm going to share that too,

436
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 2: you know. I wrote about this on my blog recently,

437
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 2: like the sharing of our happy times has to be

438
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: as important as sharing our tough times. And I come

439
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: from a family who really rally when times are tough,

440
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: like they are, you know, you want them on the

441
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 2: day you get the diagnosis, on the day the relationship

442
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 2: breaks down. They are bloody brilliant. My mum is serves

443
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: it up with that, but they are very uncomfortable and

444
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 2: maybe it's a cultural English thing too. They are not

445
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 2: great at celebrating good times. And I think there's two

446
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 2: levels of that. It's like A it's seen as boastful

447
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 2: or tool poppy syndrome, and B there is a distrust

448
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 2: of happiness that has been conditioned into me because they

449
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 2: because of again collective trauma, they are worried that if

450
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: you celebrate good things, shoe the other shoe is going

451
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: to drop, and that you know, something bad will be

452
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: around the corner. And I think for me, a big

453
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: realization through therapy is that I want to live a

454
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 2: life where I value happiness as much as I value suffering,

455
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: where I teach my kids not only how to suffer

456
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: but also how to celebrate life. I was taught from

457
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 2: a very early age how to endure and survive, and

458
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: as women, you know, we are great at being survivors.

459
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: But I really want to teach my children how to

460
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: celebrate and trust their happiness. And yeah, that's kind of

461
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: dictating what I'm doing in my personal life now and

462
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: also in the content I share, because I don't only

463
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: I actually like change the name of my business because

464
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 2: it was storytelling for healing, and I felt like, in

465
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 2: a way, we were getting stuck in that suffering loop

466
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: of only sharing the stories of suffering, and I wanted

467
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: to start to show the other side of life too,

468
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: because our negative bias does naturally make us attached to

469
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: the darkness of life, and if we don't make space

470
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: to the other side too, Like, you know, what's the

471
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: bloody point of all of this?

472
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: Really, what's what's the Yeah, I agree with you, what's

473
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: the I don't know. Is there a is there a

474
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: line in the sand amy where or is there a

475
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: philosophical or psychological point where, yes, we want to acknowledge

476
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: the bad stuff we want to, you know, but then

477
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: I just don't want to become a victim for twenty

478
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: five years where I'm just I'm just self indulgent in

479
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: my pity party, and I'm inviting people to you know,

480
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: it's of course we've got to acknowledge the bad, we've

481
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: got to deal with it. We want to heal all

482
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: of that. But at the same time, let's get the

483
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: fuck on with it, because you've got a life now,

484
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: You've got potential, you've got days, you've got time, You've

485
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 1: got you know, like, how do we is there? I

486
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: know that's a hard question, but what's the point where

487
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: we go? Like like you kind of the way that

488
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: you acted after your husband died, some people would have

489
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: gone I understand that some people would have gone no,

490
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: and you moved on. I don't know, is there a

491
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 1: is there a I don't know what am I asking?

492
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: I'm asking, I guess how do we not get trapped

493
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: in self pity and still move on without totally of

494
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: the experience?

495
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: Good question, and that is part of the dance. And

496
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: you know, the absolute part of life really is like

497
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 2: how do we become more than the events that happened

498
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: to us? Like that is the big question? And I think,

499
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, definitely, how we scare Like the repetition

500
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 2: that we get stuck into, Like I'm really hyper aware

501
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: of like getting stuck on a script of what's happened

502
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 2: to us. And like it's funny for me as like,

503
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 2: you know, a so called like media person media personality,

504
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: because I do so many interviews and I write books

505
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: about my life, like I can get stuck on like, oh,

506
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 2: you know, and then my husband died, and then I

507
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 2: did this, and my I was paralyzed, and then I

508
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: had needing disorder and blah blah blah. But I start

509
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: to hear myself when I'm just reeling off the script

510
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: that I've said hundreds of times, and I catch myself

511
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: and it's not even about not about like not telling

512
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 2: that story. I'm really happy to talk about my first

513
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: husband and everything that's come after it, but I really

514
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: want to update it to truly who I am now.

515
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: And you know, my current husband there was a moment

516
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: in the pandemic when he turned around to me and said,

517
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: you know, you're so attached to your trauma. And at

518
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: the time I was so affronted. I'm like, well, what

519
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: are you talking about? But he's really right in that moment,

520
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: you know, in the culture of the pandemic and everything

521
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: that had been, you know, happening, and all the bad

522
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 2: news in the world. I had started talking about my

523
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: first husband a lot more than usual, and I'd almost

524
00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: started to use that story to make myself feel better,

525
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: to give myself more value, and even like to win

526
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: an argument with my current husband, like if he said something,

527
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: I'd say, you know, if you don't understand, like you

528
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: don't know what's happened to me, or you don't know

529
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 2: what I've a seen. And though it doesn't happen often,

530
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 2: that's probably been the only time in this current relationship

531
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: in fifteen years, but it's that moment when I go like, oh,

532
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: like that victimhood and again coming back to using our

533
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: suffering as a way to boost ourself ESTEEME. That's something

534
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: I really try and be hyper aware of because we

535
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: are in a world that glorifies suffering, and we have

536
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: to be careful not to get stuck in that cycle.

537
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: It's really interesting, like you probably know the word the

538
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: work of Gaboron Marte and all the work he does

539
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: in trauma, and I heard him say, you know, so

540
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: many of us being everyone who has experienced any kind

541
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: of trauma, so you know, I'm so grateful for it

542
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: because it's made me an empathetic person, or this is

543
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,959
Speaker 2: a gift it's given me, and like I've done that.

544
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: I say, like, the reason I'm such a good journalist

545
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 2: is because I've been through so much so I can

546
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: connect with people. And Gabor says like, no, no, no,

547
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: that's your trauma, lens speaking, you would have been that

548
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: anyway like me, I would have been. I have to

549
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: realize I would have been empathetic, and I would have

550
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: been had this skill, and I would have been able

551
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: to connect with people whether or not I was traumatized

552
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 2: or not. And I have to stop giving my trauma

553
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: credit for giving me that gift and actually saying, hey,

554
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: do you know what, I don't have to say, I'm

555
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 2: so grateful that happened to me because it made me

556
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: the person I am. I can realize that I have

557
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: value regardless of what happened to me. So yeah, I

558
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: don't know if I answered that question or not, but

559
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: there's something in that for people.

560
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: I think it's like Tiff and I have spoken about

561
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: this a lot and a lot of guests. I mean

562
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: we're fifteen hundred and all the episodes in or something

563
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: and like I try, I try to be. If people

564
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: meet me on the street, the biggest compliment to me is, oh,

565
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: you're exactly like on the show. Like I'm like, great, great,

566
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: If I'm different, then this is bullshit. And you know,

567
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: there's a space between person and persona right, and to

568
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 1: be in a public space and to have attention and

569
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: to have an audience. Like one of the one of

570
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: the catches these days, I think is that like there's

571
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: a social currency almost in being a victim and going

572
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: oh no, let me tell you my story. It's worse

573
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,719
Speaker 1: than yours. Yeah, And I'm like I get it, I

574
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: get it, but there's got to be a point also, yeah,

575
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: here's the bad news, but also here's the rest, here's

576
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: the rest, and like trying to you know, everyone's been

577
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: through stuff to different levels, and you've genuinely been through

578
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: you know.

579
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: A little bit.

580
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been through heaps of course, right, so and

581
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: no disrespect so of lots of people in different ways.

582
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: It's trying to how do I how do I not

583
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: be that kind of virtue signaling Oh, let me tell

584
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: you about my story and did I tell you about

585
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: how you know that where we don't lean into that,

586
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: so we're kind of almost getting social brownie points.

587
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's self esteem, right, you know, it's self esteem.

588
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: And I genuinely believe many of us are living with

589
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: chronic self esteem. Like we're literally a low self esteem

590
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: epidemic going on because we don't know what value is anymore.

591
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: You know, we're bombarded with like you're you'll have work

592
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: if you've got this car and this house and this job,

593
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: and even as a mother, if you have these kids

594
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: and you're you don't yell at your kids or whatever

595
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: it is. We don't know really what worth means anymore

596
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 2: because there's too much chatter around us. And so, you know,

597
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: like with I think a lot of this like trauma

598
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: virtue signaling and trauma bonding is because our self esteem

599
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: is so low. And I'm talking to myself now, like

600
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: I will find myself every now and again, if I'm

601
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: having like a tough week as a parent and I

602
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: have to go to an event or you know, meet

603
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: a new person, I will find a way to like

604
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: wangle in my past story because I'm like, well, this

605
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 2: is something I can fall back on to talk about.

606
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: This is something that's interesting if they know that I

607
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 2: wrote a book about this, or I went through this,

608
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: And so when you kind of we use it as

609
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: a way to like one, connect with people, and you

610
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: also prop up our own self esteem to just go, oh, yeah,

611
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 2: I'm worthy of being here because I went through this thing,

612
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: which proves that I'm worthy of being here. And like,

613
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: I think, if we find the way again, we could

614
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: go inwards that old cliche again and realize that our

615
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 2: worth is in just to who we are the day

616
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: we were born. We were born with this incredible worth

617
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 2: and that hasn't changed and will never change. And if

618
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 2: we can find a way to sit with that and

619
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 2: who we are without the clothes and the job and

620
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 2: the house, that's where like solid, genuine self worth comes from.

621
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: And then we don't need to tell these stories. Like

622
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 2: we can tell the stories because they genuinely help people,

623
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: but we don't have to because we know we have

624
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:29,479
Speaker 2: value without them.

625
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I don't know if you

626
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: have the answer to what I'm about to ask. I

627
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: agree with you, But at the same time, like there's

628
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 1: this kind of divergence of messaging that we get in

629
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: our culture, and one is you're amazing, You're good enough.

630
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what you look like, where you live,

631
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: what you drive, what you earn owns. That's like, it's

632
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: just who you are, right, which is you know, I mean,

633
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: we've got to pay the bills and feed the kids,

634
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,479
Speaker 1: right of course. But then the other message is that's

635
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: everything what you look like, what you own, what you own, earn,

636
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: where you live, what you drive. They are like, it's

637
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: not spoken, but it's obvious, like through social media, through media,

638
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: through and we tell people that, but it's it's like, yeah,

639
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: that's well and good, it's all well and good, say

640
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what you look like, but have you

641
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: been in the real world, It actually fucking does matter.

642
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: It does matter. It shouldn't, but it seems to.

643
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm sitting here saying all of this

644
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: as a middle class white woman, blue eyed, blonde haired,

645
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: you know, skinny, like I'm saying with all of the

646
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: privileges that come of that and everything that I've done

647
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: with sex and like, all the stories I've told are

648
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: under the umbrella of me looking like this. So I

649
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 2: have an incredible privilege to go out and kind of say, yeah,

650
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: I behave badly, I did this, I did that, But

651
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 2: look at me and I know I will be accepted

652
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: in most places and spaces, but you know it's safe

653
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 2: for you because I know a bit about your backstory,

654
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: like how people interacted with you, and especially being like

655
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: in the media when you were heavier versus now, or

656
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 2: different parts of your fitness journey, like you would have

657
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: felt people reacted to you differently, and that's how the

658
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 2: level of how people gave you a voice and listened

659
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 2: to you and valued what you had to say would

660
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: have been differently, you know, absorbed, depending on what you

661
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: look like at the time.

662
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I was, and I've spoken about this

663
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 1: too many times, but for periods of time, I was

664
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 1: essentially a fraud. I was telling people to do stuff

665
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: ami that I wasn't doing. I was like, I owned

666
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 1: multiple gyms, I opened the first personal training centers in Australia.

667
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: I'm working with professional athletes, I'm an exercise scientist. I'm

668
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: doing all this cool shit and when no one's looking,

669
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm eeting everything that's not nailed down because I'm fucking

670
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 1: controlled myself. So I'm just wearing bigger and baggier tract

671
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: suits and hoping people won't notice, you know, And it's like.

672
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: So let me ask you then, like, how have you

673
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 2: updated the story of who you are? Like the story

674
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 2: of who you were when you were at your heaviest

675
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: versus the story of who you are now. How have

676
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 2: you had to update that? Because I'm assuming you aren't

677
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: always walking around thinking the same as when you were

678
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 2: heaviest persus now you've got to update your mindset as

679
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: well as your physical appearance. Really, if you're going to

680
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: integrate it, well, yes.

681
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: So I thank you. That's a good question. I mean,

682
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: for a very long time I could not distinguish between

683
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: my body and my self self, Like my sense of self,

684
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: my identity, my self worth, my self esteem came through

685
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: looking a certain way. You know. I wanted to be

686
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: big and muscular. I wanted to like intimidate dudes, or

687
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: not intimidate, but impress. I guess I wanted to belong.

688
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: I want to be connected. I wanted women to think

689
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: that I was not horrible to look at all that

690
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: stuff all out of insecurity and fear and shit self esteem.

691
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: And over time it wasn't an overnight revelation, but over

692
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: time I kind of recognized and realized how I was

693
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: creating my own emotional and psychological prison. I built this

694
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: prison for myself to live in. That meant I literally

695
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: couldn't be happy or fulfilled or connected unless I looked

696
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: a certain way. And I don't have optimal genetics, so

697
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: it was always an uphill battle, you know. So yeah,

698
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: I think for me, the liberation was in starting to

699
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 1: try to figure out who I was beyond a body,

700
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: which for me was a spiritual, emotional, sociological, and psychological journey.

701
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: And I'm still on that path, and I still, you know,

702
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: I still sometimes care too much about how I look.

703
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: I still sometimes care too much about what you think

704
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: me right now. I still have all that human bullshit,

705
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: but it's you know, I kind of have bigger and

706
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: I guess better awareness around it.

707
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: And do you ever catch yourself? Sorry, I'm not interviewing you,

708
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: but it's okay, the journalist, the journalist. Do you ever

709
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 2: hear yourself? Because I know you talk about it, you know,

710
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: relevantly in this podcast when you're telling your story of

711
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:25,959
Speaker 2: you know, I was this heavy and I lost weight.

712
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 2: Do you ever hear yourself kind of a voice in

713
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: your head going, oh, here he go to the gap?

714
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 2: Why am I telling this story? Is it still relevant?

715
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 2: Or am I you know, just repeating the script that

716
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 2: I've told before. Do you have that voice?

717
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah? I had that voice about three minutes ago when

718
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: I'm very aware that a lot of my listeners have

719
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: heard this shit too much. But I didn't know that

720
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 1: you knew that or that you So I'm very aware

721
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: and I'm one of my biggest paranois about this show

722
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: is that I am not you know, it's not fucking

723
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,919
Speaker 1: groundhog Day for my listeners because we do seven days

724
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: a week and we have a lot of listeners, and

725
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want it to be too much

726
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,479
Speaker 1: about me. I'm happy to talk about me, but yeah,

727
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: I don't and I don't want it to be self indulgent,

728
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: you know all of those things. But yes, yes, but

729
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 1: that that kind of who I was and the experiences

730
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: and stories that came out of my childhood and teens

731
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: was kind of informed you know a lot of my life.

732
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that's I think the awareness is all

733
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 2: that matters. Like you have got that voice in your head.

734
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 2: I think where we lose ourselves in our trauma is

735
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: when we're not questioning that, when we are just you know,

736
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: rattling off the same or boot who this happened to me,

737
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: or I used to be the fat kid, or I

738
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 2: used to be the traumatized anorexic girl. When we're just

739
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 2: rattling off without consciousness of what we're doing to ourselves

740
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: and our own nervous system, you know, because every time

741
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 2: you go back to like or when I was, you know,

742
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 2: bigger and felt lonely and afraid like we are, our

743
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 2: nervous system can't really differentiate between an event happening now

744
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: and one that happened ten years ago. So it's also

745
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 2: about being aware of like, when I'm telling that story,

746
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 2: how does it feel to me? Is it expansive or

747
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 2: is it constrictive? Is you know, do I want to

748
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: kind of hide in shame or does it make me

749
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 2: feel like I'm opening up and connecting with the world.

750
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 2: And I think as long as we have that awareness,

751
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: we're okay as storytellers. It's when we just start, you know,

752
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 2: rattling off that script without checking in with ourselves that

753
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: to me, I'm thinking, like, Okay, let's you know, let's

754
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 2: pause and see if this is still relevant and purposeful

755
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: in repeating this story.

756
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. All right, We're on the home

757
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: straight you're doing great. You don't need my endorsement, but

758
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 1: you're doing great. The woman who's done a million podcasts

759
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: you said before bad news selves. I want you to

760
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: talk about that a little bit. Why do you think

761
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: that that is?

762
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: Oh academic?

763
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, why does the journalists think that people are because

764
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 1: I know that a couple of times they've tried positive

765
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: news services which fucking fell over hopelessly, and everybody's like, nah,

766
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: I want to see applying crash. Let's turn this shit off.

767
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will tell you my personal experience and opinions,

768
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 2: because he had lots of very clever academics have done

769
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: the actual data on it and studies on it. But

770
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: you know, two things, like, there's two sides of it. Unfortunately,

771
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: sometimes hearing about what other people going through does allow

772
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: us to, you know, downward compare and feel better about

773
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: our life, and that can genuinely make us feel grateful

774
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 2: to a point. But you know, there's also research around

775
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 2: like gratitude practices and around. It's much more potent if

776
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: we don't use another person or a situation to compare to,

777
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 2: Like I'm so grateful that I'm not the one with cancer.

778
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful I'm not the one going through a divorce.

779
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: I really try, within the work we do with the

780
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: Space podcast and my own gratitude practice to not use

781
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 2: downward comparison to prop myself up. However, within the news

782
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: we do get that little high from thinking, oh, at

783
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 2: least that isn't me. I might be going through this,

784
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 2: but I'm not going through that. Also, just as a

785
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 2: human species, we are interested in like everything most of

786
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 2: them think, we do as a self protective mechanism, and

787
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: so the part of us is like we want to

788
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: be one step ahead of whatever the danger is that's coming.

789
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 2: And so we have this hunger for every risk that

790
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: could possibly happen to us, whether you know, for you know,

791
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 2: look at their crime to crime podcasts and the majority

792
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: of the huge audience for it are women. And it's

793
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 2: because women are most at risk of domestic and family violence,

794
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: male and female violence, you know, use in the dating world.

795
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: Like you know, just running on my run this morning

796
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 2: at five am in the dark, at least half of

797
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: the run, I'm just like scanning around thinking, Okay, if

798
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 2: someone comes out of there, I'm going to go and

799
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 2: run and knock on that door. Like we just have

800
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: this running commentary in our head of how to keep

801
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: ourselves safe. And it's one of the reasons they say

802
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 2: that women are so interested in listening to true crime

803
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 2: podcasts because as a part of us, that is like

804
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 2: taking in information just in case we are ever in

805
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: this situation. And I think the same is true for

806
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 2: some of our addiction to bad news. It's like we think,

807
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: if we can absorb every risk around us, then we

808
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: can somehow protect ourselves from it, and of course that's

809
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 2: not true. What we do is this hyper strength in

810
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 2: our negative bias to thinking that that, you know, ninety

811
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 2: nine percent of everything that goes on in the world

812
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 2: is hideous. And you know, again it's coming back to

813
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 2: getting comfortable with other people's happiness. It's really hard some

814
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: if we are struggling with infertility and our friend tells

815
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 2: us they're pregnant, it fucking hurts, you know. If our

816
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: relationship is going for a really crappy patch and our

817
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 2: friends have started dating and fallen in love and it's

818
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: all the honeymoon period, it's really tough sometimes to hear that.

819
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 2: But we do need to expand our tolerance for good

820
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 2: news and other people's happiness, which sounds bizarre, but we

821
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: are not very good at it, and so like for me,

822
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 2: I really have to push and test myself to ask

823
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 2: people about the great things going on in their life,

824
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 2: asking how their kids are doing, how their relationship is,

825
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: what's going on with their job, and reading some of

826
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 2: the happy news, because I know that I can be

827
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 2: uncomfortable celebrating myself and other people, and so I just

828
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 2: think we need to get better at it. Yes, bad

829
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 2: news sales, but we have to leave some space in

830
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 2: the market and the media space for the good of life.

831
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 2: If we are ever going to feel safe in this

832
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 2: crazy world that we live in, we have to realize

833
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: that sometimes great stuff happens.

834
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, almost there. My last philosophical question anyway,

835
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: if is a little what am I going to go?

836
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: I want to ask you this, tell me about an

837
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 1: idea or a belief that you held that you've done

838
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: a one ady on something that you changed your mind

839
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: about that maybe impacted the way you live or the

840
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: way you communicate or the way that you think these days.

841
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: Has there been anything that you essentially got wrong or

842
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: believe you got wrong and now you've you've kind of

843
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: done a bit of a one eighty.

844
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure there's.

845
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: I've never actually got any I know you've never got

846
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: anything wrong, but just humorous.

847
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 2: There's been so many. The big one relevant to my

848
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 2: work is that, oh, there's so many. I think one

849
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 2: that's really more relevant to your readers actually is that

850
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 2: I had this belief that you might relate to that like,

851
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 2: the more disciplined you are, the better. Like, you know,

852
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,240
Speaker 2: I come from this family of athletes and very active

853
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 2: people and perfectionists, and like, my career peaked very early,

854
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: and I would have at that point in my twenties

855
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 2: put my career above friends and family and walked over

856
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 2: anyone to get what I wanted. At the same time,

857
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: I was a you know, high functioning anorexic. I very

858
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: much thought I was in recovery, but I certainly was not.

859
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 2: If I had actually looked honestly about how I was

860
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,720
Speaker 2: eating and living my life, and I was just so

861
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 2: proud of how disciplined I was in every area of

862
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: my life life and thought, if I can just keep

863
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 2: being disciplined and living by these rules and eating well

864
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 2: in egg folks, and you know, following my fitness with

865
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 2: em and working all the time, I will be great,

866
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: and of course if many of us are found out

867
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 2: that's not a sustainable or pleasurable or connective way to

868
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 2: live for me and probably for a lot of people.

869
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 2: And so like moving more into a mindset of like

870
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: flexibility in how I live and what I eat and

871
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 2: what I do and how I work has been a

872
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 2: big game changer for me, I think, and now that

873
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 2: I have kids, it's really the only way to live.

874
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 2: I you know, my needs are not first in this

875
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: household at all, and that's as it should be with

876
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: young kids. But you know, if the twenty five year

877
00:48:55,600 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 2: old workaholic anorexic version of me would look my day,

878
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 2: she would think it was a failure to be frank.

879
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: You know, our cancel work meeting because my kids suddenly

880
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 2: got to come home from daycare because they've been hit

881
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 2: with a yo yo and I haven't been able to

882
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 2: go for a run because someone was up crying. And

883
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 2: then you know, my dinner will be my own dinner

884
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: and a fish finger off one of the kids plate.

885
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: And I would have seen that as an absolute disaster,

886
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 2: But personally for me now I really see it as

887
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: a triumph. And it's a real sign for me of

888
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 2: how far I've come, and the fact that like I

889
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 2: can love myself in the chaos of it all is

890
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: really special.

891
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: I love that. Now. Of course you write for The Space,

892
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: which is a mindfulness podcast on also on Nova and

893
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: Casey Donovan voice. Is that right? Yeah? She sure does,

894
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 1: so well done on that. How long you been doing that?

895
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 2: We kicked off they're in the basically around lockdown, so

896
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, and it's yeah, gun gangbusters.

897
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: I think we had great timing. Obviously, everyone was desperate

898
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: for some kind of emotional toolkit at the time, and

899
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 2: I think the form out of it, which is you know,

900
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 2: twice daily episodes five minutes in the morning, five minutes

901
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 2: at night, really relatable, digestible mindfulness and mental health pips

902
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: really just got people. You know, My brief from the

903
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 2: producers was mindfulness without the bullshit, So it was like,

904
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 2: you know, no cliches, no kind of spiritual jargon, and

905
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: also like not that this is bullshit, but like we're

906
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 2: not going to talk about crystals or we're not going

907
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: to like use the language that like the average like

908
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 2: trade on the street is going to bullcat. So they

909
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 2: really wanted me to break it down and just make it.

910
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: And I think we do it. I mean, it's had

911
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 2: over nearly six million downloads now lifetime downloads, and it's

912
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,439
Speaker 2: just going from strength to strength. And I just love

913
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: like when I hear from like friends or friends of

914
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: friends who listen to it. It's never like my spiritual

915
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: friends who do listen, but it's like my husband's mate

916
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 2: who's never meditated before, or like my friends who work

917
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 2: in the police force and have PTSD and are looking

918
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:19,919
Speaker 2: for something that they can listen to on the drive

919
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 2: home after they've seen, you know, some brutal scene. I

920
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 2: love the people that are coming back to me and

921
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 2: saying like this is a game changer for me. It's

922
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 2: really nice to introduce kind of so called spiritual content

923
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 2: in a way that like is really easy for people

924
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: to understand and just using their everyday life. I love it.

925
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's I mean, that's the thing. You know.

926
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find how do we explore these ideas

927
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: and concepts with people who aren't and I mean this

928
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: politely in the tocomas spiritual people. You know, how do

929
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: people find you, follow you and connect with you? If

930
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: you want to be found for load or connected with

931
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: not followed in a creepy way at five I mean

932
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: in a virtual I mean in a virtual way.

933
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 2: Well, you can listen to the Space wherever you listen

934
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 2: to your podcast and follow along their act the Space

935
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: Underscore podcast on Socials. I am everywhere as Amy malloy

936
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 2: amymlloy dot com dot au, Amy not Amy Underscore Malloy

937
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: on Instagram. But yeah, you can just give us a

938
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 2: Google you'll find us.

939
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: I appreciate you. You are great at what you do,

940
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 1: your brilliant communicator and storyteller. And yeah, it's been really nice.

941
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for being on the You project. Well say goodbye

942
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: our fair Amy, but for now, thank you

943
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 2: Pleasure, Thanks so much, Thanks TIV, thank you,