Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the gadigall people of
Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to elders past and present.
Speaker 1: In this episode, Amenada shares her confronting first hand experience
Speaker 1: of war. There are discussions of rape, murder and abuse.
Speaker 1: Support is available through the links and phone numbers in
Speaker 1: the show notes.
Speaker 2: It's nineteen ninety nine and we're with Amanata Conte Bijour
Speaker 2: in her family home in Sarah Leone's capital. As the
Speaker 2: civil war rages on. All houses surrounding hers have been
Speaker 2: burnt to the ground. It's been a particularly brutal, violent
Speaker 2: few weeks. Her bright yellow house is the only one
Speaker 2: that remains, and has become the safe place for her family, friends,
Speaker 2: and even strangers who have nowhere to go. Today, this
Speaker 2: all changes. They hear the voices of the rebels are
Speaker 2: followed by a bash at the door. Despite everyone's best
Speaker 2: efforts to stay silent, the rebels know there are people
Speaker 2: inside and start yelling threats to burn the house down
Speaker 2: with everyone in it. Eighteen year old Amanata knows these
Speaker 2: aren't empty frets. She's watched it happen right in front
Speaker 2: of her. They are found and dragged outside by fifty
Speaker 2: rebels and child soldiers. Amanata clutches onto her father's hand.
Speaker 2: One of the rebels locks eyes with her and starts
Speaker 2: heading towards her. I'm Att Middleton and this is head
Speaker 2: game today, turning harrow into hope. Thank you ever so
Speaker 2: much for joining me. Talk to me about you upbringing
Speaker 2: in Sera Leone and where you come from, and you know,
Speaker 2: did you have normal.
Speaker 3: Bring My childhood was beautiful, It was beautiful. It was
Speaker 3: very special because I was raised by the most incredible
Speaker 3: human being, my father. So I grew up in what
Speaker 3: you would say in the west bubble like. My dad
Speaker 3: was very protective man. He raised us all all his children,
Speaker 3: and we as a daughter, we grew up very knowing
Speaker 3: that the girls are special, which is very rare in
Speaker 3: places like Africa, that the girls the men are treated
Speaker 3: differently than the boys. Ours was the opposite, and our
Speaker 3: childhood was so it was just beautiful. We live sort
Speaker 3: of like an English kind of life because he traveled
Speaker 3: a lot to the UK and he loved that life,
Speaker 3: and so at home we just watched movies in the
Speaker 3: digestive biscuit where new balance all these things and watching
Speaker 3: James Bond movies that would come out, and it was
Speaker 3: just one of those places where I didn't grow that
Speaker 3: anything can hurt me. All of my siblings did think
Speaker 3: that way.
Speaker 2: How many girls were there?
Speaker 4: Six six and I have my two older sisters who
Speaker 4: went to the UK in ninety eighty just before were
Speaker 4: before I was born in ninety eighty and they lived
Speaker 4: there and then but he all most of the children
Speaker 4: were in the UK, but then I've traveled so when
Speaker 4: so because we were younger, he stayed with us.
Speaker 3: So it's a very interesting story because we didn't we
Speaker 3: were not raised by our mother's So my dad, I'm
Speaker 3: not sure about his life the way it was raised.
Speaker 3: I think he made a decision to raise all his children.
Speaker 3: So we were alwaised by one human being, so we
Speaker 3: all kind of have the same mindset. And so growing
Speaker 3: up in cyrill Leon I grew up in the capital
Speaker 3: city of free Town, in a neighborhood called Kissi so,
Speaker 3: but I think from early my dad said, a place
Speaker 3: where even though we grew up very privileged, we still
Speaker 3: grew up in a place where there was poverty. But
Speaker 3: we didn't know it was it was poverty. So even
Speaker 3: though it was protecting us, but we wanted us to
Speaker 3: live in a place.
Speaker 2: And it was sincerely owned, right, yeah, necessarily owned Freetown.
Speaker 2: And you're right because you know there's places that you
Speaker 2: know are normal, and that seemed like quite up and coming,
Speaker 2: but then you take you turn the corners and you
Speaker 2: do experience extreme poverty, extreme proverty. But we didn't know
Speaker 2: that was poverty, but you didn't. But you didn't know
Speaker 2: because that was normal.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, And I think he said that scene for us,
Speaker 3: for us to be able to live anywhere around the world,
Speaker 3: which is what we've done. My dad was just one
Speaker 3: of those men that would trow us in the most
Speaker 3: uncomfortable places. So I like being in the place that
Speaker 3: are that we call uncomfortably. So I think growing up
Speaker 3: in that sense, we've heard about the war. It's been
Speaker 3: going on from since nineteen ninety, but it never got
Speaker 3: into the capital city. But we always knew something was coming.
Speaker 2: And what was it? Just a civil unrest? Was yes,
Speaker 2: a civil yes, a sort of government versus well, yes.
Speaker 3: The soldiers and civilians. So it was started from Liberia
Speaker 3: because of the most people would have seen the blood diamond.
Speaker 2: That's interesting from Liberia because people don't realize that that's
Speaker 2: where that's.
Speaker 3: Where, Yeah, that's where, that's where it came from. So
Speaker 3: childs still all of course, and when you're coming from Liberria,
Speaker 3: the places that you meet in from Syrilli is the village,
Speaker 3: so where the diamonds are, So that's connor Bo, yes,
Speaker 3: so of course, So it took longer. It took about
Speaker 3: nine years or so for the war to enter the
Speaker 3: capital city, which is what the rebels were aiming for.
Speaker 3: But by then I think we're actually with the rebels.
Speaker 3: What we didn't know so when the war, when they entered,
Speaker 3: it just felt like they came off the cloud. And
Speaker 3: as soon as we hear the sound. I remember it
Speaker 3: was school time and we hear the sound and we
Speaker 3: just knew.
Speaker 2: So for since nineteen ninety, you know it's happening. You
Speaker 2: hear about it, but it's a very distant thing. You
Speaker 2: don't believe that it's really.
Speaker 3: It was not really distant because we saw that part
Speaker 3: of the war or the kind of signature thing that
Speaker 3: was happening. They were amputating long sleeve and sleeve and all.
Speaker 3: So we saw refugees flying from Liberia and from the
Speaker 3: rural area to the city. Yes, and we knew what
Speaker 3: would happen to young girls, So the story was kind
Speaker 3: of very close to our heart, like we knew what
Speaker 3: was happening.
Speaker 2: Did you ever think it would come to Freetown or
Speaker 2: did you think that Freetown was just quite strong?
Speaker 3: I think that's a long time we did. We didn't
Speaker 3: think that it would, but then we did. But that cloud, yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: and we thought because every time they come a little
Speaker 3: bit closed, that the government to push back. So I
Speaker 3: think they used a different technique this time. So when
Speaker 3: it arrived, they were already in the city for months embedded,
Speaker 3: so it just they just as I said, just like
Speaker 3: from the cloud just falling. As soon as we hear
Speaker 3: the sound, everybody knew, like, yeah.
Speaker 2: Take me back to that day. Did you get up
Speaker 2: to go to school or it was midnight?
Speaker 3: It was around it was midnight, so we're sleeping and
Speaker 3: then we just heard the sound. So by the time
Speaker 3: we looked through the windows, you could see the smoke
Speaker 3: because one of the things they do to they burn
Speaker 3: people in the house, so everything was cloud and like
Speaker 3: smoke all around, so you can see people. Screw you
Speaker 3: can hear people screaming, and our house we had like
Speaker 3: a kind of bullet to prove a tinted window. As
Speaker 3: I said, my dad was a businessman, so we had
Speaker 3: this protection so we could see people from the inside,
Speaker 3: but they could not see us, got you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyone that you could see what was going on,
Speaker 2: what they couldn't see what was going Yeah, And.
Speaker 3: It was one of those scene where you cannot stop
Speaker 3: watching because you can see what is being done to people.
Speaker 3: And my dad just quietly closed all the windows and
Speaker 3: just quiet hold at this stage eighteen.
Speaker 2: Yes, so you're you're you intrigue, you want to know
Speaker 2: what's going on, you know you and again you're scared, right,
Speaker 2: You're hearing scared, You're hearing the screams, you're seeing the smoke. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I suppose you want to you want to check it
Speaker 2: out because you want to know if it's going to
Speaker 2: reach you door. Yes.
Speaker 3: Well, also people anybody that have gone through war, you're
Speaker 3: you're you're past the world scared because you know you're
Speaker 3: in it. So I will not even think of the
Speaker 3: word scared. You're in it, so you don't feel what
Speaker 3: am I going to do? So my dad closing the door.
Speaker 3: It was a way of saying, we're all going to
Speaker 3: be killed here. He didn't want us running around like
Speaker 3: everybody was running because it was chaos, like what people
Speaker 3: experience during war, people abandoning their children, wars. It's very
Speaker 3: vicious than what we see on television. You leave, you
Speaker 3: leave your children, you leave places, you jump on someone destruction. Yes,
Speaker 3: and your mind is our minds thinking surviving, and so
Speaker 3: whatever Dad, you need to do, you just do. You
Speaker 3: don't have time to think. So my dad just closed
Speaker 3: the door. And we grew up very disciplined, so we listen,
Speaker 3: of course, and just stay in and then keep going.
Speaker 3: But it was really strange because our house is massive.
Speaker 3: It's big, the biggest house around the area, and was
Speaker 3: bright and yellow and for some reason, after it's been
Speaker 3: closed for long a while, we've been in the house
Speaker 3: for a very long time, and nobody knew it was
Speaker 3: it's really busy. It's one of those things that you
Speaker 3: see probably a movie. We did. We could not understand
Speaker 3: why all the houses are being burned but not ours?
Speaker 2: Why Why do you think that was?
Speaker 3: I think what I put it on. My dad was
Speaker 3: a beautiful man, was a good man. I felt like
Speaker 3: I do believe something was protecting us. I really do,
Speaker 3: because there was no way our house could not have
Speaker 3: been seen. It's very sort of iconic around the area.
Speaker 3: People knew our dad, they knew the life that we lived.
Speaker 3: But it was almost they were passing the whole time.
Speaker 2: And it was bright yellow as well. Yes, it was mellow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then a scene happened when a lot of
Speaker 3: people were running, but it all came and knocked at
Speaker 3: our house and my dad for the first time opened
Speaker 3: the door.
Speaker 2: This was a refuge, Yes, sicking the refuge.
Speaker 3: So we end up and it's three stories and split
Speaker 3: it so three stories as it's massive, so we end
Speaker 3: up having over five hundred or even a thousand people
Speaker 3: living in our house. But even for those weeks, still
Speaker 3: the rebels were passing by. It's really busy every time
Speaker 3: I talk about it because it almost feel like those
Speaker 3: middle hobe.
Speaker 2: So they take over the over freeze, but they're just bypassed.
Speaker 3: It just passed the house and it was quiet. It
Speaker 3: was just simply quiet, and there was a lot of
Speaker 3: food because what my dad would do most of the
Speaker 3: way we grew up, we buy a lot of rice.
Speaker 3: We have a storage of right so that's how we
Speaker 3: lived our life. Storage of everything, so they were food
Speaker 3: for people to eat. And then it just came around
Speaker 3: the time when the government was really pushing and then
Speaker 3: we heard one of the rebels just said who has
Speaker 3: this house? Who is in this house? And then we
Speaker 3: knew straight away.
Speaker 2: So did you start to feel safe? Did you start
Speaker 2: to feeling like, no one's gonna knock on our door,
Speaker 2: We've we've been given a pass or such.
Speaker 3: I think we grew up in the Tennessee that our
Speaker 3: dad was almost god. Yeah, of course, so he made
Speaker 3: us feel that way, so there was no fear. But
Speaker 3: we saw we were still looking what was being done outside.
Speaker 3: We're not allowed to look at the window, but we
Speaker 3: were still looking because he was downstairs. I was in
Speaker 3: the middle floor. But we were seeing things that were happening.
Speaker 2: And what type of things would you see?
Speaker 3: Well, really the amputation they acting people long slaving, short
Speaker 3: sleeve people being burned, and the long.
Speaker 2: Sleeping short slaves is explained it The short sleeve is
Speaker 2: above the elbow and long sleeve islow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you get to choose. Yeah, we're seeing women
Speaker 3: were pregnant and being asked, do you think you're having
Speaker 3: a boy or girl and then they were split. So
Speaker 3: we saw, Yeah, they.
Speaker 2: Were playing these huge mind games, mind games.
Speaker 3: Because they were rebels who were their kids. There were
Speaker 3: young shoulders through so it was their mind has been
Speaker 3: with drugs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've been drugged that they've been inductrinated, brainwashed years
Speaker 2: and they've been with alcohol drugs.
Speaker 3: Yes, and most of these boys have been they've been
Speaker 3: trained to kill even their own parents.
Speaker 2: Yes, they've been given the power too.
Speaker 3: So they were the most one. You should be scared
Speaker 3: of the younger ones that they're older.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because unstable.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So when when we heard that voice, it's almost
Speaker 3: that annoying that Okay, we're going to be out and
Speaker 3: we're going to be killed. So it's you come. I
Speaker 3: think in life, you come to a place where you
Speaker 3: make peace with where your your life is. Yes, and
Speaker 3: I think that way of knowing. And we're calling everyone.
Speaker 3: Next to our house, there was a there was a
Speaker 3: land that was open and everybody came out and my dad,
Speaker 3: I was only my dad's hand. We jump over the
Speaker 3: fence and then we.
Speaker 2: So take me back. So you get a knock on
Speaker 2: the doors, it was.
Speaker 3: Just that noise. Who is in the south and then
Speaker 3: a few of them start acting, so it was one
Speaker 3: person out of curiousity is one of the rebels start acting,
Speaker 3: and then the others start acting. And now they got
Speaker 3: really cute's like almost like there's a house here.
Speaker 2: That hasn't been touched.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then they asked if you don't open, will
Speaker 3: burn the house. So that's when my dad opened, of course,
Speaker 3: and and they asked us to go to the outside field.
Speaker 3: We went, and then they start burning that they we
Speaker 3: have this brand leather chair. They start burning the chair
Speaker 3: to burn the whole house. And then one of the
Speaker 3: rebels asked who is who owned this house because quite
Speaker 3: a big it's a.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a beautiful house.
Speaker 3: And they told politics politicians so and then somebody said
Speaker 3: mister Conte. Yeah, yeah, they call him pa content, so
Speaker 3: they know a lot of people know his name. And
Speaker 3: then somebody was giving description of who he is. And
Speaker 3: then one of the rebels said, I know him. He
Speaker 3: is the man that has started to build a hotel
Speaker 3: and gave it off to refugee to stay there. So
Speaker 3: my dad used to build it was building a hotel
Speaker 3: that he stopped building. Refugee stay there through and then
Speaker 3: they spoke for his character. Yeah, and did the rebel
Speaker 3: like that? They yeah, they stopped burning the chair. They
Speaker 3: put the chair off. Wow. Yeah. And we went to
Speaker 3: the field and my dad had parkinson. I didn't know
Speaker 3: what Pakistan was, so he said was shaking. And then
Speaker 3: I was holding his hands and and I locked eye
Speaker 3: with one of the rebels, and I knew straight away
Speaker 3: was coming for me. Oh wow.
Speaker 2: So yeah, they're in the field. You got your your
Speaker 2: hand in the hand with your father.
Speaker 3: So we're all standing in the field. So everybody has
Speaker 3: come out. It's like a thousands, like a lot of people.
Speaker 2: And we they go down the line, don't they Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, all my hands. We know they were going to
Speaker 3: pick your girls. So I knew.
Speaker 2: I was why did you Why were they picking young girls?
Speaker 3: They choose young girls and mostly virgin to be used
Speaker 3: as a sex slave. And I see human shield mostly
Speaker 3: that's they tend for them to pick. It's kind of
Speaker 3: like a spirit as superstitious that they will win the war.
Speaker 3: So well us holding my dad hand, we thought they
Speaker 3: were going to burn all of us or should or
Speaker 3: because we have them do we have the rebels right
Speaker 3: in front of us. So I was just standing there
Speaker 3: and just ready to go with him. But as soon
Speaker 3: as one of the rebels looked at me, I knew.
Speaker 3: I just knew it was this possession of Luke. And
Speaker 3: when he as soon as he altered the word you come,
Speaker 3: he looked at me, you come here. I let go
Speaker 3: of my dad's hand.
Speaker 2: Why did you let go of your dad's hand to
Speaker 2: protect him?
Speaker 3: Yes, it was the first time I knew how to
Speaker 3: protect someone. And once I let go, I did not
Speaker 3: look at his face. Now because I knew everybody that
Speaker 3: knows my dad knows my dad about his children, So
Speaker 3: I just walk away, did not have a look at
Speaker 3: his face.
Speaker 2: And that's your protection.
Speaker 3: Luckily, the guy that took me walk away because he
Speaker 3: had had four guilts or the girls that were standing
Speaker 3: waiting for him, so he had four guilts that he
Speaker 3: had kidnapped. So I joined that group and any walk
Speaker 3: away with me, and you don't look back. No, I
Speaker 3: never looked back. I still try to picture even now
Speaker 3: most of the time when I share my story, to
Speaker 3: see what position he would have been. And and yeah,
Speaker 3: way he didn't move. I think he was just stuck or.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well maybe as a as a father, maybe
Speaker 2: he knew that if you, he would have probably got
Speaker 2: himself killed, you killed, and all of his children killed. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's a decision that you you made right not
Speaker 2: to because any normal child, you think, would have just
Speaker 2: held on tighter. Yeah, right, because but you made a
Speaker 2: decision to text your family, and he probably done the
Speaker 2: same him to protect you, because like you said, the
Speaker 2: rebels were so unstable that if you look, probably shut
Speaker 2: you down.
Speaker 3: Mostly were asked the daughter to shoot or the rap
Speaker 3: the daughter in front of the father. So that was
Speaker 3: one of the reason too. So there was a lot
Speaker 3: of scenario that I knew of because of the history
Speaker 3: of the war. So I knew that if he fought,
Speaker 3: they would either asked me to shoot him, or shoot
Speaker 3: him or rape me in front of him. So there
Speaker 3: was a lot of things that would have happened. So
Speaker 3: and I felt like even not standing, not keeping me
Speaker 3: there to look because I would have turned or look
Speaker 3: at his face, that was a protection there too. That
Speaker 3: was guide me through that he took me and walk
Speaker 3: away with me.
Speaker 2: What happens next, I.
Speaker 3: Still don't remember how long I was kidnapped for. We
Speaker 3: start walking up the hills because you know civilian high
Speaker 3: it's called lion mounting because of the hills to start
Speaker 3: walking off. And again it's the acceptance this is it,
Speaker 3: this is live. Because there were bombs going on, there
Speaker 3: were a lot of things going on. It was very
Speaker 3: intense time because the government was really pushing back. So
Speaker 3: and mostly what the rebels would we take civilians and
Speaker 3: put them even give us, give guns, so the government thinks.
Speaker 2: That you are by seeing your weapon, I think you're yeah.
Speaker 3: So it was all surviving. We had to go up
Speaker 3: the bush and we have to change our clothes to
Speaker 3: camouflage with the green. The green where so if you
Speaker 3: wear something white or something bright will shoot you. So
Speaker 3: we have to wear something green or dark. So if
Speaker 3: there's an alicopter then they don't see where we're going.
Speaker 3: So for all those things that you don't grow up with,
Speaker 3: you just instantly lean to do wow. And because there's
Speaker 3: dead body next to you, there's somebody just fall being shot,
Speaker 3: so you don't you don't have a second to think.
Speaker 3: You have a time to think.
Speaker 2: So you've been ripped away from your family, How you've
Speaker 2: been ripped ripped away from your your your dad? What's
Speaker 2: going through your mind? Is it? Obviously the first bit
Speaker 2: was protection, Just get me out of here. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're taking attention away from your dad really and your
Speaker 2: family when you're walking up what how does your life
Speaker 2: flip on its head all of a sudden the realization
Speaker 2: of you know where you where you're sleeping, where you're living,
Speaker 2: just put put it in put it in our heads,
Speaker 2: where where you were.
Speaker 3: The first time that we took so the girls that
Speaker 3: it was really engraved with the girls that he had kidnapped.
Speaker 3: These are girls that I knew from school, but we're
Speaker 3: not friends, so and we we didn't start moving right away.
Speaker 3: We had to settle in our house up the hill.
Speaker 3: That night is when he started, like the rebel that
Speaker 3: kidnapped me, Darahmi that was his name, start calling each
Speaker 3: girl in the room and and sort of rapping each
Speaker 3: girl as he called them in.
Speaker 2: The room, including yourself.
Speaker 3: Yes, so, and I know for sure most the girls
Speaker 3: I could hear the voice, so you just know when
Speaker 3: it's your turn. So so I was brutally my first
Speaker 3: experience was between five or six men, because after you
Speaker 3: call some of his crew and then just woke up
Speaker 3: being fainted, and then you then you as soon as
Speaker 3: that finish, you start running again, so you don't have
Speaker 3: time to think, you start. So as soon as that
Speaker 3: same finished, he knew straight away. So that's when his
Speaker 3: pos his obsession became because then I hadn't been was
Speaker 3: my first experience, So he became really possive. He didn't
Speaker 3: want the others anymore, so he became really really possive.
Speaker 3: But what was also interesting, my brother Ali, who was
Speaker 3: very protective of me, saw that Darami had took me.
Speaker 3: So he was following me little by little like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: so he vollowed un till he followed me. And so
Speaker 3: at one scene when they wanted to almost shot him
Speaker 3: and he just said, that's my sister. So but because
Speaker 3: Darami was obsessed with me, he accommodated my brother.
Speaker 2: Wow. And so they were gonna they were.
Speaker 3: Going to kill. Yeah, they mostly killed the men or
Speaker 3: used them to be training to be a soldier or
Speaker 3: carry to stop this story.
Speaker 2: Yes, I saw that they were strong and yeah, if not,
Speaker 2: they just put them him as an example on the fire.
Speaker 3: So my whole experience, I was with my my, my
Speaker 3: brother and he so.
Speaker 2: What did they do to grab your brother and put
Speaker 2: in with you?
Speaker 3: In with me? But Daramy had the three girls, the
Speaker 3: three friends that I know, which I talk about in
Speaker 3: my book. And then my brother just joined in. Well,
Speaker 3: he knew my brother sort of for somebody to just
Speaker 3: volunteerly followed. He knew that my brother loved me. He
Speaker 3: loves me. And then so his obsession become became more
Speaker 3: like very like really deep obsession. And my brother most
Speaker 3: of the time had to witness a lot of things
Speaker 3: that was done. So you would play really nice if
Speaker 3: I was nice and beaving, but you're.
Speaker 2: Just manipulating you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And how long does this go on for?
Speaker 3: For? About? As I said, I still don't remember. I
Speaker 3: thought it was three months, but my friends that was
Speaker 3: being kidnapped with there's a lot of things that I remember,
Speaker 3: I said it was six months.
Speaker 2: So I stay at this stage, you got no appreciation
Speaker 2: for time. You're living in a nightmare.
Speaker 3: Sometimes you feel like you're safe I being with them,
Speaker 3: because you don't know when you get into when you
Speaker 3: come across the ecomok the government, if they're going to
Speaker 3: shoot you, if they're going to kill you so and
Speaker 3: you have to go. And then with the rebels, if
Speaker 3: they find out that you want to escape, they kill you. God,
Speaker 3: they think you're a traitor. So you're almost between that
Speaker 3: scene of if you could escape, you can, but mostly
Speaker 3: there was no much escaping because it was as I said,
Speaker 3: it was one of the most intense time for the
Speaker 3: past nine years of the war. Wow.
Speaker 2: And what year was that when you got When you got,
Speaker 2: I was in nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety nine. Wow. Yes,
Speaker 2: So you're you know, they've gone into Freetown, They've they've
Speaker 2: taken over free Town. Do they need to move much? Now?
Speaker 2: Are they moving you from location from location to location?
Speaker 3: So sometimes we're staying there in a place for like
Speaker 3: one week or two weeks, and then they can tell
Speaker 3: because they go out hunting and they can tell when
Speaker 3: the government is getting closed and there were more. So
Speaker 3: you move us trying to stay one say, and then
Speaker 3: you move years. So you know when movement is happening.
Speaker 3: You can hear the gardens all the time, but you
Speaker 3: know when it's coming closer.
Speaker 2: So you know you're living a nightmare. You're you're moving
Speaker 2: along your food, you're just sleeping the house. How are
Speaker 2: you sleeping? And you're just sleeping in one room, all
Speaker 2: of you together.
Speaker 3: On you you just sleep if you can, you sleep
Speaker 3: on a rock, you sleep on the store, you sleep
Speaker 3: wherever if you if you end up going to a
Speaker 3: place where his house that everybody occupied those houses because
Speaker 3: those people have moved out. And then food sometimes you
Speaker 3: go to a build, you end up in a village
Speaker 3: where there's a lot of goods and you eat so
Speaker 3: whatever you can. Sometimes there were weeks that we didn't
Speaker 3: have food and you just it survived.
Speaker 2: And it was the r u f are Uf and
Speaker 2: what what was there? You know, what was the goal?
Speaker 2: They want to take over the gold and the diamond
Speaker 2: minds or was there.
Speaker 3: Was diamond diamonds and so everything has been corrupted. So
Speaker 3: they are fighting against the government and that it was
Speaker 3: more between civilians or have become rebels and so just
Speaker 3: that are fighting. Some soldiers have joined in that we're
Speaker 3: fighting with the government. And again that trade came to
Speaker 3: all charld Stale or from Liberia the president at the time.
Speaker 3: So it was more the resource, where the resource is
Speaker 3: going and what how they can get more resources sell
Speaker 3: it and where how they can get the guns?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly through dim Yeah, because they took over all
Speaker 2: the diamond minds, didn't they And then they started buying
Speaker 2: some serious weapons and they were gathering huge momentum. You know,
Speaker 2: you look at the r U, the West Side Boys,
Speaker 2: they were that you know, they'd taken over, right, and
Speaker 2: they're only when the more they're taking over, the more
Speaker 2: money they're getting, the more weapons they're getting, so ultimately
Speaker 2: building an army this nightmare. Does it become like you said,
Speaker 2: you know, you feel like you're more protected when you're
Speaker 2: with them. Does it does it flick into the norms?
Speaker 2: You think that this is going to be me for
Speaker 2: the rest of my life. I think you make peace,
Speaker 2: You make peace with with being the way that you're
Speaker 2: treated and thinking that this.
Speaker 3: Is just I didn't. I didn't make peace with it.
Speaker 3: I was very I think with everything that was happening,
Speaker 3: I worry about my father, my father was I had.
Speaker 2: No communication with your father, no contact.
Speaker 3: Communication with my father. But I don't know why was
Speaker 3: everything was happening to me when my dad was was
Speaker 3: my main focus.
Speaker 2: But so that was like a beacon of hope, that
Speaker 2: kind of and thinking.
Speaker 3: Like where easy easy, okay? Did he died after I
Speaker 3: was gone? We're very close to him. So but also
Speaker 3: I think every day you start to adjust, even people,
Speaker 3: even people who are kidnapped, even if it's in the
Speaker 3: city or anywhere. And I've seen stories before in the
Speaker 3: US where people are you start to just you start
Speaker 3: to almost pretend to make that's your home. You start
Speaker 3: to make it as how you create homes. I can
Speaker 3: I can see myself just cleaning because my dad was
Speaker 3: everything used to be tidy and fixing the bed. You
Speaker 3: start of accepting, even if you don't want to say acceptance.
Speaker 3: So it's it's.
Speaker 2: Amazing mechanism, isn't it. You almost go in flicking that
Speaker 2: survival mechanism of adapting and slowly accepting but knowing that
Speaker 2: there's a hope.
Speaker 3: Yes, I I don't know. For some reason, I just
Speaker 3: knew I was going to see my dad. That was
Speaker 3: something that I don't know how, but I knew I
Speaker 3: was going to see my dad. Mass situation was in
Speaker 3: the word when you say the word impossibly, something I
Speaker 3: don't see in my life anymore. But I could not
Speaker 3: have been I could not have been able to run
Speaker 3: away from this from this man. But then through that
Speaker 3: time with my friends that was kidnapped with we were
Speaker 3: I went to Christian school, so the Bible was our
Speaker 3: only hope. So we started reading a bible. We had
Speaker 3: a pocket bible given witness give. So faith and my
Speaker 3: dad were the center of how and I navigate to
Speaker 3: things you can't ask why you look around it's all women,
Speaker 3: young girls. So uh, but my faith keep me going
Speaker 3: and and knowing that I would see him, So that
Speaker 3: was Yeah, that was something that That's something I've told
Speaker 3: on to always.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And when was the the next time you saw
Speaker 2: your father?
Speaker 3: So when I saw my dad. Uh, we had run
Speaker 3: out of food within it for weeks and the government
Speaker 3: and the rebels were making sort of arrangements. Yes, we've
Speaker 3: not heard about. It's really quiet, and a really terrible
Speaker 3: thing had happened with one of with with me. One
Speaker 3: of the rebels who Colboot. His nickname was cold Boot.
Speaker 3: It was one of the most vicious ones. Something horrible
Speaker 3: had happened between between him and me. I had come
Speaker 3: to trust him because he said his wife was called Aminata,
Speaker 3: so I became really trust him. And the rebel that
Speaker 3: kidnapped me, Darami, was scared of Cold Boot, so he
Speaker 3: took me saying that he was going to protect me
Speaker 3: from Darami. But then something really horrible happened between us
Speaker 3: a night. But I could tell I felt safe with him.
Speaker 3: But there was a time because I have not really
Speaker 3: fully developed, even though I was eighting, I had not
Speaker 3: fully really developed. But I could tell there was a
Speaker 3: time when he looked at me, and I knew it
Speaker 3: was a look of protection.
Speaker 2: When he knew that look when when you were failed
Speaker 2: and you locked eyes and when he dragged.
Speaker 3: Down, I had that sense. I'm like, I knew that
Speaker 3: was a predator kind of look. So so something horrible
Speaker 3: happened between me and him, and it felt. It's really
Speaker 3: incredible how even the most evil people can feel guilt.
Speaker 3: He felt that he took something because his wife name
Speaker 3: was Aminata. He was protecting me at one time, but
Speaker 3: then it took something. And the next morning I could
Speaker 3: see that for the most vicious rebel was a shame.
Speaker 3: It was really it was really incredible. So then I
Speaker 3: heard that they were getting young kids to go for
Speaker 3: the exchange. And then but what he did was because
Speaker 3: he was a shame. He handed me back to Daramy.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when he hadn't when he handed me, because
Speaker 3: Daramy is obsessed with me, got really angry that I
Speaker 3: have been with this person, with this rebel, So he
Speaker 3: got really, really angry, so just made the situation even.
Speaker 2: Yes, I remember, if you could get any worse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember being in this room any and then
Speaker 3: I remember that I'm being angry and said, you run
Speaker 3: away from it because she had food. And then he
Speaker 3: fired shot, about seven or eight shot on my feet.
Speaker 3: I do not know how. Nothing touched me. His intent
Speaker 3: was for me not to run away anymore. Then he
Speaker 3: got really angry, so he walked away because he was angry,
Speaker 3: so he walked away, and he asked me to go
Speaker 3: to the next building to wait for him. And I
Speaker 3: remember my dear friend who lives in the UK, Francis,
Speaker 3: who I was with. I remember looking at Francis. I said, oh,
Speaker 3: I heard they're going to release some children, and they
Speaker 3: said yeah, and I said, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2: And this was the sort of like the peace agreement
Speaker 2: that they're trying to give us. This this we're releasing.
Speaker 3: But I've just heard this about a few minutes ago.
Speaker 3: And for Francis, Francis knew my circumstances, and she cried
Speaker 3: and I knew where she was crying because it was impossible.
Speaker 3: But I don't know why I said it. I don't
Speaker 3: know why I said it because I knew it was impossible.
Speaker 3: And I said to her, I think I'm going to go,
Speaker 3: and then she cried and then I walked away less
Speaker 3: than one minute. I'm walking away. That ram the guy
Speaker 3: that took me that night called me and because of
Speaker 3: his git, yeah, his guilt, and he said, do you
Speaker 3: want to go? And I just and I nod my head.
Speaker 3: And because that REMI.
Speaker 2: Has walked away, You're gone.
Speaker 3: It was just the most miraculous thing. And he didn't
Speaker 3: come till late. The army did not come to He
Speaker 3: thought I was waiting for him in his unit, and
Speaker 3: then I left. But the most beautiful part of his story,
Speaker 3: my brother had seen me leave, so he went and
Speaker 3: bypassed and followed, and then one of the rivers caught
Speaker 3: him and then he pointed, that's my sister. And then
Speaker 3: they were trying to give us questions, both differently to
Speaker 3: see if the story is match. And the guy that
Speaker 3: was doing it, he said, what's your name? And I said,
Speaker 3: I mean not a content and he said who is
Speaker 3: like just a small country. And I started telling him
Speaker 3: about my dad's hotel and stuff, and he said I
Speaker 3: know him. So I was released with my brother.
Speaker 2: I love the story of your brother. So he's got
Speaker 2: a constant eye on you and he's going forward, probably
Speaker 2: protecting you. Wow. So the rebel lets you.
Speaker 3: You then go to a group of rebels so that
Speaker 3: we have to do an exchange. It's one of those
Speaker 3: things that you see in the movie. We were in
Speaker 3: the middle of the street. It was the first time
Speaker 3: they were doing the exchange, and they had to be
Speaker 3: no gon fire, so and we had to walk towards
Speaker 3: the government and then they released some full and medication.
Speaker 3: It was peaceful, and they took us to the capital
Speaker 3: city and there were thousands of parents just which in
Speaker 3: their child can be among those seventeen or twenty one children,
Speaker 3: and everybody was just in the street and free time,
Speaker 3: just celebrating. It was almost unreal. I don't sometimes I
Speaker 3: think it's real. And they took us to the government
Speaker 3: where they echo they sold just at the camp. So
Speaker 3: my father found that I was alive on television because
Speaker 3: what had happened. The rebels gave us, gave me the
Speaker 3: letter to give to the government about the demands, so
Speaker 3: I had to be on TV. And so that's when
Speaker 3: my friends and my dad found out I was on television.
Speaker 3: Everybody was watching it. Everybody was with their neighbors. So
Speaker 3: the line of all the girls that they all their children.
Speaker 3: I was being released and my brother was with me,
Speaker 3: and yeah, and then we had to return home. My
Speaker 3: dad was just not the same. He was really in
Speaker 3: a in a he was the only person that had
Speaker 3: two children that was released. Well, he was never the same.
Speaker 3: He was gone, and I could just hear him softly crying,
Speaker 3: and then he just starts just start breaking up, breaking up.
Speaker 3: He didn't know how to celebrate. He knew something had
Speaker 3: been taken and he felt like he failed. And it's
Speaker 3: the most painful part in my story. Now, what was
Speaker 3: done to me?
Speaker 2: Seeing this strong man that he once left just a
Speaker 2: shadow of himself. Yeah, such a wow. I'm getting emotional
Speaker 2: as well because it's so you're back with when do
Speaker 2: you actually you know, you know your father? Like you said,
Speaker 2: it felt like he felt like he fouled you. You're
Speaker 2: seeing a shell of a man. What happens there after?
Speaker 3: I feel like it was almost gone. I almost felt
Speaker 3: this transition up. And I was a very swell child
Speaker 3: and very I was very sicky and very kind of
Speaker 3: weakened everything. And I actually feel like my dad's strength
Speaker 3: transformed on in me. He became really weak. I became strong.
Speaker 3: I really believe that, because all night I could hear
Speaker 3: him cry, and he cried a lot every night. So
Speaker 3: I had to leave syrillly on to go to Guinea
Speaker 3: because my kidnapped. We knew where my house was and
Speaker 3: was going to look for me. I knew that, And
Speaker 3: because the piece went really smoothly, we knew that it
Speaker 3: was not going to be any sort of accountability or
Speaker 3: as who come live in peace. So I had to
Speaker 3: flee to Guinea Kunakri to meet my mom. My mom
Speaker 3: lives in Guinea, and I didn't see my dad until
Speaker 3: a few months after. He was going to Guinea to
Speaker 3: get a flight to go to London because he had
Speaker 3: to he had cancer. We'll find out he had cancer,
Speaker 3: and he had the packings in And still even I
Speaker 3: spent time in Guinea, he was never he could never
Speaker 3: look at me in the eyes so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can I can imagine being a father myself.
Speaker 2: I can only only imagine what he's been through. You know,
Speaker 2: we are here to protect, we're here to provide, and
Speaker 2: you know there's not my way simple beings fathers. You
Speaker 2: know We just want to what's best for our children,
Speaker 2: especially when it comes to our daughters, because that's you know,
Speaker 2: the most vulnerable part of being a father is that.
Speaker 2: So you go and live with your mother? Did did
Speaker 2: you have a relationship with your mother?
Speaker 3: What was my life? I didn't memories, that's what I think.
Speaker 2: So when you went there, what was that like?
Speaker 3: You know my mom?
Speaker 2: Because that's another huge change, just being reunited with your family.
Speaker 2: You know, you see your father, it's destroyed everything, and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden you're having to go and
Speaker 2: live a stranger again, your mother because she wasn't part
Speaker 2: of your She was.
Speaker 3: Not part of my upbringing, not because of choice. My
Speaker 3: dad took use. But when I went, when I went
Speaker 3: to Gidea, seeing what my dad did of serving helping people,
Speaker 3: I took a few girls with me that stayed with
Speaker 3: my stay at my mom's plait because everybody was looking
Speaker 3: for shelter. My mom was a Guineaan woman that has
Speaker 3: their own house, So we had a few community that
Speaker 3: came and stayed with us.
Speaker 2: So after all this that you go through, you you're
Speaker 2: still thinking about other people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think children see what the parents are and
Speaker 3: they become that I saw my dad was fully that
Speaker 3: serving and helping. So I just took friendly girls in
Speaker 3: the neighborhood that didn't have family in gear me because
Speaker 3: they would have gone to refugee camp, and my mom
Speaker 3: just accommodated them. But my mom also was trying to
Speaker 3: make sense of what had happened to me, because I
Speaker 3: have when nine in our family, but I'm the only
Speaker 3: child to my mom, and so she she doesn't know
Speaker 3: what to do with the whole things.
Speaker 2: And especially doesn't know. You know, you can't just tell
Speaker 2: by like a look on your face. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: constantly I can tell when my child's down just by
Speaker 2: looking at them when something. And she she was just
Speaker 2: trying to figure this.
Speaker 3: She was trying to figure and I was. And the
Speaker 3: more I move away from my dad, I missed my dad.
Speaker 3: So the whole time I was thinking of my dad too.
Speaker 3: But also we don't when those things happen, especially people
Speaker 3: have gone to you don't you don't know. You don't
Speaker 3: talk about these things. You're talking language there that she
Speaker 3: would have known what happened to me. And when you can't,
Speaker 3: you don't know, you don't communicate those things. There's no
Speaker 3: your mind is sort of move. You survive and what
Speaker 3: you want to do is leave and continue because these
Speaker 3: people around you've gone through probably was or the same.
Speaker 3: So so we never talked.
Speaker 2: You never talked, and you just you just held the
Speaker 2: senior in yourself. And then how did Australia come about? Then?
Speaker 3: Well, Australia came about because my story was on television.
Speaker 3: So when the UNH chair in Guinnie heard of me,
Speaker 3: they went straight on protective mode because they knew that
Speaker 3: I was a girl on TV. And also I've heard
Speaker 3: that Darami had come to the city looking for me,
Speaker 3: so they wanted to get me out. But I had
Speaker 3: choice to go to America, Canada and the UK, and
Speaker 3: I didn't want to go to any of those because
Speaker 3: there was a big community there and we were part
Speaker 3: of the first group of refugee to come to Australia.
Speaker 3: And I've never heard of Australia before at the French
Speaker 3: Day Australia, so I thought it was Austria. Yeah, So
Speaker 3: then I asked the un guy at the time, Sinai.
Speaker 3: I still remember it was African American tall and who
Speaker 3: was working at the UNHA, and he was very protective
Speaker 3: of me, and I said, what is that place? And
Speaker 3: then he just said, oh, it's far and the program,
Speaker 3: as you know, Australian program takes longer, and it was
Speaker 3: encouraging me to come to the US or the UK
Speaker 3: because it was more fast the program. So I said no,
Speaker 3: I want to wait for coming to Australia and he
Speaker 3: said why because I didn't want people to know my story.
Speaker 3: I wanted people to help me because I needed help.
Speaker 3: But then again, I was raised by a father who
Speaker 3: trust in the most uncomfortable places. My sisters went to
Speaker 3: Scotland and went to boarding school, so we were raised
Speaker 3: by not being fearful. So then I decided to come
Speaker 3: to Australia in two thousand.
Speaker 2: Was it exciting news to you or was it just
Speaker 2: a case of I've just got to get out of
Speaker 2: here my mom?
Speaker 3: Was the case of me getting out my mom and
Speaker 3: she could understand why I couldn't live earlier with the
Speaker 3: UK myself. I think I don't know. I think after
Speaker 3: the war I went to a phase of forgiveness and
Speaker 3: I started making peace with my life and what how
Speaker 3: well forgive the I think I went to boarding school
Speaker 3: before the war. It was I was a Christian school,
Speaker 3: so I land. One of my favorite stories, the productan Son,
Speaker 3: So I used to tell my dad that story a lot,
Speaker 3: and I knew I had a sense, even though I
Speaker 3: didn't understand it. I knew forgiveness was about me, it
Speaker 3: was not about them. So that made me really light.
Speaker 3: So wherever I was going to go, I think Australia
Speaker 3: just came up on the map because I've never heard
Speaker 3: of it. That's why I wanted to come. But anywhere
Speaker 3: else I would have been, I knew that I was
Speaker 3: going to be fine. I knew that I'll be fine,
Speaker 3: and so the excitement for Australia was not really exciting
Speaker 3: committed to overseas because I lived that kind of life
Speaker 3: back home, So it was it was not anything that
Speaker 3: really I would not say excitement. And I was not fearful,
Speaker 3: even for the person that was looking for me. There
Speaker 3: was a fear had gone for some reason. I don't
Speaker 3: know how, and I think I was just looking forward
Speaker 3: to life like I wanted to. I knew that I
Speaker 3: had thought. I was trying to understand how I had
Speaker 3: thought to survive, and I still can't make sense of it.
Speaker 3: But I knew that if I had to go six
Speaker 3: feet it's going to be we living life large and fully.
Speaker 3: So that was going to be wherever, even if it
Speaker 3: was going to be in Afghanistan. I was going to
Speaker 3: make sure I leave fully, and I think that would
Speaker 3: give my dad peace to know that I was not
Speaker 3: a victim and something that's been taken away. But I
Speaker 3: was not broken. I had been raped, things that happened
Speaker 3: to me, but I didn't feel broken. I never wanted
Speaker 3: Still now I don't feel broken. I feel whole. I
Speaker 3: feel I feel proud all the time of the person
Speaker 3: that I am, and I had that, but I just
Speaker 3: didn't know how to articulated. But I knew when I
Speaker 3: walk in the room, I am present, I am there,
Speaker 3: I am supposed to be there. And my dad will
Speaker 3: always say, if you if somebody doesn't like it, they
Speaker 3: can live. But you're the most important person in that room.
Speaker 3: But you're not important than anybody else. So a lot
Speaker 3: of things I didn't have the language for, but we
Speaker 3: just knew that I was going to leave it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, you knew what you want, how you
Speaker 2: want to. I knew I wanted to show how I
Speaker 2: wanted you wanted to and you've done that through through you, right,
Speaker 2: through through your actions. And when was the last time
Speaker 2: you saw your father.
Speaker 3: I went to see him in London in two thousand
Speaker 3: and three because we knew it was going to pass.
Speaker 3: So I went to sick and goodbye to him, and yeah, and.
Speaker 2: It was it was it was their words exchanged with
Speaker 2: your father now because I'm.
Speaker 3: He just smiling. It's whole continents changed when I arrived. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we just spent time and I tell him how I
Speaker 3: was living my life in Australia and my faith because
Speaker 3: a government mostly family, but I became a Christian. So
Speaker 3: I was telling him all the story and he has
Speaker 3: this cheekiest smile that you always have. In three days
Speaker 3: with him and he went to board. Yeah, he was
Speaker 3: pretty sick. He was very sick. We had to put
Speaker 3: a lot of clothes on him because they were not
Speaker 3: let him travel. But I think my whole family thought
Speaker 3: I was going to be the broken one when he passed. Yeah. Everything,
Speaker 3: I think, everything about my relationship since the war, my
Speaker 3: family had been surprise is because I was always the
Speaker 3: sick at child. And so when my when he even
Speaker 3: when he passed, because he went back home in serially
Speaker 3: on and he passed away, I didn't cry. I just
Speaker 3: felt this beautiful, this liberation that he was at peace,
Speaker 3: but he was he was in hell being on earth.
Speaker 2: But like you said, and you mentioned it a couple
Speaker 2: of minutes ago, you didn't want your dad to feel
Speaker 2: like that you were a victim. You almost drawn his strength,
Speaker 2: to be sure, because otherwise, you know, I can imagine
Speaker 2: from a father's standpoint, if if what happened, you know,
Speaker 2: broke here and it's going to break you and it's
Speaker 2: going to take down the whole, then yeah, so you're that,
Speaker 2: you're that solid foundation. You're almost taking over from his role.
Speaker 3: Yes, right, is.
Speaker 2: What it felt like.
Speaker 3: It does. It still does every every time. It is
Speaker 3: my guiding injury and everything that I do, how I
Speaker 3: talk to people, how I treat people, are.
Speaker 2: Sure and you do. You you've come over to Australia,
Speaker 2: talk about treating people and talk about still being that
Speaker 2: pillar of positivity and strength for your father because you've
Speaker 2: got the amnatam maternal foundation. Tell me about that.
Speaker 3: Well, when I give birth to my daughter in twenty
Speaker 3: twelve and I almost lost her, like we almost died,
Speaker 3: and I've never heard the word maternal. Hell, I've never
Speaker 3: heard those words before I was kept at the hospital
Speaker 3: and for four days and did a case study on me,
Speaker 3: and it was very interesting. The doctors were talking not
Speaker 3: to me, but they were talking about me. So I
Speaker 3: was picking up the words that we're saying. Four days later,
Speaker 3: I went home in google meturnal health and syreally and
Speaker 3: come up. And I always remember my dad will always
Speaker 3: say to whom much is giving, what is required, but
Speaker 3: not how much. So the fact that I was in Australia,
Speaker 3: a refugee, was in a public hospital, were just working
Speaker 3: in retail. But I had become an ambassador for u
Speaker 3: n H Chair and I just thought, well, I'm privileged.
Speaker 3: If I can have seven doctors in the room to
Speaker 3: make sure that I survive, I should be able to
Speaker 3: do something. And I love storytelling. So I just asked
Speaker 3: anybody that I could meet with those platform from unhhair
Speaker 3: and nobody could say no to my friend and everybody.
Speaker 3: I just kept up calling meetings upon meetings. But it
Speaker 3: was not to set up a foundation. It was just
Speaker 3: I come from a war zone. Unfortunately is going to continue.
Speaker 3: But the fact that we birth life, women birth life phenomenal.
Speaker 3: How could we allowed in the world when we talk
Speaker 3: about women's right and human rights allowed women to die
Speaker 3: just because for me that didn't make sense. So after
Speaker 3: three years of research, and the professors at uns w
Speaker 3: knew that was not giving up because my son after words,
Speaker 3: and I was showing up. I was calling meetings. It
Speaker 3: was very interesting because I would get all these professors
Speaker 3: in the room and with speaking language, I have one
Speaker 3: percent of what they're saying, and I just shake my head.
Speaker 3: End I've calling the meeting. And then finally three years together, yeah,
Speaker 3: three years later, like she registered them, Like what does
Speaker 3: that mean? So everything has just been a larning and
Speaker 3: I think we all have our strength. My strength is
Speaker 3: connecting people. And I have brilliant people around me. I
Speaker 3: don't need to be them. They can be all the
Speaker 3: academic and I can be the fun one.
Speaker 2: And yeah, exactly, you're almost piecing the vision in your
Speaker 2: head with you know, bringing people together.
Speaker 3: And everybody told me I thought I was mad, and
Speaker 3: I now I look at myself. I was mad because
Speaker 3: I was saying I want to be the hospital I want.
Speaker 3: I was saying all these big things and I didn't
Speaker 3: know how complicated it is to build an organization in
Speaker 3: Australia working in Africa. If you're not you and you're
Speaker 3: not uni safe. I did not know, and I didn't
Speaker 3: want to know because I just got like, well, why
Speaker 3: should I not do it? Why should we not do it?
Speaker 3: It was just so if it's not being done, why
Speaker 3: not we do? So it was more what of that?
Speaker 3: And it was heartbreaking that nobody knows about cyrillion and
Speaker 3: nobody knows about the issues. So it's really out of
Speaker 3: I don't know if you can call it passion and
Speaker 3: the idea of serving. I always wanted to serve. That
Speaker 3: was also anything that I was going to do in
Speaker 3: this world, even the way I show up for my friends,
Speaker 3: my kid's we're here. Whether we want to agree or not,
Speaker 3: we're serving each other.
Speaker 2: It's not being liked. So for me, that's the only
Speaker 2: way we're going to progress in life. That's the only
Speaker 2: we need each other. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: And when I look back what I've done already, and
Speaker 3: sometimes I marvel at it. We just came back from
Speaker 3: CYRILLI and I look at myself like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: And the saddest part imagine if I didn't do it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I look at it like what I've done, what
Speaker 3: we've done with the foundation they miss out on people
Speaker 3: where people don't do because of what somebody think. I
Speaker 3: think that's the saddest part for me in humanity, in
Speaker 3: human life, that because somebody thinks you cannot do it,
Speaker 3: I would have missed out because nineteen nine point nine
Speaker 3: percent of people said I could not do it, and.
Speaker 2: I've been That's why you say that you don't believe
Speaker 2: that anything is impossible, and you don't use that word
Speaker 2: it is. Really I've got the same mindset of that.
Speaker 2: You know, I havn't done so many things and seeing
Speaker 2: so many things. It's like nothing is impossible.
Speaker 3: It's like what dad said. The person that says it's impossible,
Speaker 3: it's not or they're both right. So if you if
Speaker 3: you said it's impossiblely you're right, absolutely absolutely. And how's
Speaker 3: the foundation going? Is its strength to strength? It's going
Speaker 3: from strength to strength? It is it's a lot of
Speaker 3: it's it's a lot of joy. I get more than
Speaker 3: I give, to be honest, but it is. It is
Speaker 3: difficult because aust so far off Africa, yeah, the UK
Speaker 3: you need in Europe, in the US, yes, that's the problem.
Speaker 2: Yours are so bloody far away.
Speaker 3: So the more for that they are the more they
Speaker 3: lack of interest. Like this morning, I had a meeting
Speaker 3: with a university in the US that found heard of
Speaker 3: me and the tracement. I will never have that in Australia. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so it is difficult for that, but I think my
Speaker 3: mission is to make sure I change that and after
Speaker 3: that gradually, patiently and ask for grace. But at the
Speaker 3: same time I have to be realistic that women are
Speaker 3: dying one in seventeen women and children. It's the highest
Speaker 3: in the world. It's the most dangerous place for any
Speaker 3: woman to give birth, even worse than refugee camp. And
Speaker 3: if it's an organization like myself, like I mean at
Speaker 3: a maternal foundation with one staff can do what we've done.
Speaker 3: Imagine if we are one person of Australia just jumping
Speaker 3: on board, we've done incredible work. But I also have
Speaker 3: to be realistic that as much as I'm being patient,
Speaker 3: I have to open to international aid to to do
Speaker 3: what we're doing, because in Sydney alone, or in Australia alone,
Speaker 3: I'm the only organization that I know office working in
Speaker 3: Africa in maternal health. And this is different of course
Speaker 3: from the UK. I'm the only black person that has
Speaker 3: founded African person that has founded and run and on
Speaker 3: for profit. Wow, that's very especially in Australia and it's everywhere.
Speaker 2: And well, do you know what, Hopefully you've kick started
Speaker 2: something that they need to start somewhere, right and you've
Speaker 2: been that stubborn and I don't need to finish it
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 3: It can pass on to someone. It's really the issue
Speaker 3: day is really terrible. It's it's hopeful. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of hope that things can be done. We walk with
Speaker 3: a lot of teenage pregnancy girls. Syrian didn't have the
Speaker 3: highest teenager teenage pregnancy because of Ebola. There was on
Speaker 3: schooling for two years.
Speaker 2: So and that was the first pandemic. Yeah, a lot
Speaker 2: of people say, you know there was a pandemic COVID
Speaker 2: was Boler was a pandemic because everything got shut down
Speaker 2: there you couldn't get it. And I was us, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was. I was stuck out and Surah enduring during
Speaker 2: the boler pandemic, and yeah it was. It was totally
Speaker 2: different to what I experience with the COVID pandemic. But
Speaker 2: what I love about you is you use your life
Speaker 2: experience in such a positive way. And I know that
Speaker 2: your father is sitting here, and I know it's because
Speaker 2: of him that you're you're like that, But that takes
Speaker 2: a certain mindset. What how do you How do you
Speaker 2: do you stay so positive? Do you?
Speaker 3: Are you?
Speaker 2: You cut things out that? Are you just right? I'm
Speaker 2: living life. I'm just grateful to be here. I've got
Speaker 2: my guardian angel my shoulder, which is my father, and
Speaker 2: I'm just going to push on and do good for
Speaker 2: other people because co to not be to be as
Speaker 2: selfless as you are with what you've been through, that
Speaker 2: is phenomenal. It's it's inspired, it's inspirational what goes on
Speaker 2: in your mind on a day to day basis in my.
Speaker 3: Mind, I think I come to accept that acceptance to
Speaker 3: be honest, like life is never going to be perfect
Speaker 3: every single pace, even if you have other in the world,
Speaker 3: there is something that's happening. It's not anything personal. Life
Speaker 3: will continue to happen, and that's the acceptance for I
Speaker 3: think in the wayst it's very different to we have
Speaker 3: this illusion that things have to go this way. If
Speaker 3: you have cancer, I mean something, you did something. It's
Speaker 3: just understanding that this is the life that we live.
Speaker 3: Things will happen. And then making a decision that while
Speaker 3: it's happened, where things are happening, what are things that
Speaker 3: you can focus your mind. So if I have a
Speaker 3: situation going with work, I spend ninety percent of my
Speaker 3: time where the solution is or what is happening and
Speaker 3: then what is not happening because I do not have
Speaker 3: a control. And I always find yeah, I always find
Speaker 3: out that when I'm focused on that this is actually happening,
Speaker 3: like life is making it happen. So there's there's certain
Speaker 3: ways that I've walked my mind if I'm going through things.
Speaker 3: My husband is a person I don't I tell only
Speaker 3: after I've overcome it, because he is the person that
Speaker 3: wants to protect me. And I actually talk to my
Speaker 3: kids a lot since we're babies. Even in the back seat,
Speaker 3: I will tell my kids, oh I'm mad, this is
Speaker 3: this up. And so my daughter and my son twelve
Speaker 3: years old in ten I talk to them a lot.
Speaker 3: And kids are just brilliant and how they can come
Speaker 3: up with things so adaptable. So yeah, and when there's
Speaker 3: a situation going, I find I find instead of blaming
Speaker 3: and I'll say, okay, world role because did I play?
Speaker 3: Because we have it doesn't matter how much that hurts me.
Speaker 3: I would have contributed for something to have. So there's
Speaker 3: a lot of techniques that I do that I've become
Speaker 3: a lifestyle for me. I just don't dwell on the
Speaker 3: things that cannot change. I really, I really don't don't. Well,
Speaker 3: I don't forget it, but I found out I work
Speaker 3: itself out.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, let's finish on your book, Rising Heard. Tell
Speaker 2: me about it. You've kindly brought me a signed copy,
Speaker 2: which I'm going to dive into on my on my
Speaker 2: journey back to to home Rising Heart. Why did you
Speaker 2: write it and and tell me what it's about?
Speaker 3: Briefly, Well, it is about the story that I've talked
Speaker 3: about my life and the way I was brought up,
Speaker 3: and the reason why I wrote it it was because
Speaker 3: I wanted to people to understand how African grew up.
Speaker 3: I'm being in Australia being asked poverty all the other
Speaker 3: questions and asked about my dad, my grandfather, things that
Speaker 3: I larned, my brother. So it was for that reason,
Speaker 3: but also most importantly, I knew that my country has
Speaker 3: been forgotten and I felt like the way I was
Speaker 3: raised was the preparation for me to be able to
Speaker 3: tell my story with no shame, no guilt, and I
Speaker 3: talked about my story because it's mine, and I embraced it.
Speaker 3: I didn't like what was what happened to me, but
Speaker 3: I'm not afraid of it whenever it shows up. So
Speaker 3: I wanted to do it in the place of the
Speaker 3: other girls and the women that were kidnapped, people who've
Speaker 3: gone through things and all that. You don't have to
Speaker 3: sometimes tell your story, but you can't escape your story.
Speaker 3: You escape you can you can never escape it. And
Speaker 3: I think that's why we are stuck. I don't feel stuck.
Speaker 3: I feel liberated. I feel free because whenever it shows
Speaker 3: up and I say hi, yeah, and I recognize it,
Speaker 3: and I know I would probably not be here if
Speaker 3: I didn't go through that. It's not a thing that
Speaker 3: you want to go through. But we can make something
Speaker 3: good out of something.
Speaker 2: It's always positive, to be fair, it's always if.
Speaker 3: You find.
Speaker 2: There's always a rainbow, and courageous enough to dive into
Speaker 2: that negativity and look for it.
Speaker 3: There's a positive and the negativity. It's really the story
Speaker 3: you tell yourself. So it's what you tell yourself. And
Speaker 3: when I I said I've never thought of I don't
Speaker 3: really I don't think of my story until I talk
Speaker 3: about it, and then I forget about it. But wherever
Speaker 3: I am, I am with my story, and my kids
Speaker 3: will know my story, and it's a story of millions
Speaker 3: of girls, and it can liberate because a lot of
Speaker 3: people reach out to me Sie, thank you for sharing.
Speaker 3: But I didn't. I didn't want it to be just
Speaker 3: about what happened to me. I wanted to be about
Speaker 3: my childhood. I want to talk about my dad, the
Speaker 3: father five got the important of fatherhood because I actually
Speaker 3: believe that m if we stayed with our daughters or
Speaker 3: even our sons, like they can be better. We need
Speaker 3: more than ever. So yeah, so there was a lot
Speaker 3: of pizzis. So you got a refugee party, get ap
Speaker 3: bringing part, and you get a hopeful part in and joy.
Speaker 2: You know, and at the end of all of it,
Speaker 2: we've got hope and.
Speaker 3: Joy and not happiness.
Speaker 2: Joy rising hearts. Right, go out there and read it
Speaker 2: because people are going to get the you know, the
Speaker 2: general story from this podcast. But if you want to
Speaker 2: go into details, go and go and grab rising heart
Speaker 2: and best of luck with that. I wish you nothing
Speaker 2: but hope and joy. Thank you, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining me on headgame. To find out more and
Speaker 2: support the Amanata Maternal Foundation, head to Amanatamaternalfoundation dot org.
Speaker 2: I'll also link the details in the show notes. I'm
Speaker 2: Att Middleton. Catch you again next time.