WEBVTT - The ChrissieCast: Tim Rogers And Diary Entries 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:11.399 Hi, Christy Casters, and welcome to another episode. I'm excited 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:13.680 about this because I spun the wheel and today we've 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:15.480 landed on music makers and joining me as one of 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.440 the most fashionable men in the music biz and responsible 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:23.520 for some of the defining songs of mine probably your generation. 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:28.920 It is you am I frontman Tim Rogers. Twelve albums, 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:34.919 five solo albums, an amazing book. My god, please put 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:39.120 your hands together, and welcome to the Christy Cast, the delightful, intriguing, 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:46.440 elegant Tim Rogers. Welcome to the Christy Cast. Tim Rogers. Hey, 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:48.400 great to see you. Thank you so much for coming on. 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.680 Ye, it's a wonderful privilege. 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:54.600 Now see you. I have spun up originally the music 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.360 makers and that's where you come in. And then we've 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:06.120 spun up the diary entry. I found my old diary. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:10.600 That brand must have been on eighty five. Yes, you know, 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.280 when this came there was a prospect of us talking 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.959 about diary amongst the other things, which horrified me. 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:18.080 Ha ha ha ha. 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.319 But in one of the lockdown's sort of a time 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.520 well let's not talk about it again. But I went 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:29.440 back to my old study books, law books and literature 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:34.040 books from university, which I hadn't opened in thirty seven years, 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.640 and because I thought how embarrassing it would be, because 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.760 I'm one to take little notes in the marginalia, in 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.720 the margins, in the marginalia, in the marginalia, which is 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.200 possibly a misuse of a term, but what others called pretentious, 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:52.120 I call aspirational. So I'll use it. And I found 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:56.440 a bunch of books and looked and all the encryption 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:03.680 little annotations thank you that I'd taken, they sounded exactly 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.600 like me now, so the eighteen year old didn't sound 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.200 that different to the fifty four year old, however old 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:14.320 it was then, And it brought me quite a lot 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.880 of peace for a while, because I disparaged that younger 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:22.040 me as being a twit, and reading the annotations, I 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:26.120 thought another time it was in Kenneth's lesser poetry books. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:31.680 It's a really interesting observation because I think that we 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:36.120 are born exactly the way we are, and I feel 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.959 the same as I always have. It's only my body 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:39.600 that's older. 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.240 I was wondering about this yesterday because I began reading 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:47.160 Richard Flanagan's new book Question seven. Oh yeah, and he 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.639 was good by the way so far, it's sexual exceptional. 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.840 I'm a very big fan. I've never been more starstruck 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.280 meeting anyone than Richard Flanagan in the Hope Ark pub 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.880 in twenty seventeen. And or maybe it's for that, because 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.840 we talked and I met his daughter Rosie, and the 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.160 next day he had to break a date that we 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.720 had because he said, I've got an idea for the 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.880 last paragraph of the book I'm finishing. And it must 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:14.600 have been before that, because the book was The Narrow 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.440 Road to the Deep North, and so I went off 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:23.240 to American tour the day after. But this Richard Flanagan's 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.360 got a new novel coming out, was just reverberriting in 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:27.840 my mind the whole time. And it was Narrow Road 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.080 to the Deep North, which is easily one of my 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:31.880 four favorite novels all time. 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.840 And you were instrumental, not majoring. It happened because you 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.040 didn't crack the shits when he canceled your date. 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.960 I'm used to people cancel it. I mean, look at me. 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.800 It was just quite something being in the presence of 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.520 a novelist and that fiction writing has always intrigued me, 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:55.760 and I've tried it and I'll try it again, but 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.760 just that mind. Anyway, Richard was writing about how a 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.880 not near the experience, but a death experience at the 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:06.040 age of twenty one, how that did actually change him 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.640 and who he was before that, and then this great trauma. 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:11.960 What do you mean a death experience? 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:18.239 Well it was. It involved canoeing kayaking in extremely treacherous waters. 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:20.159 And I think my memory of the way he wrote 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:24.760 about initially was trying to do the best straight I 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:26.599 could be very wrong, or at least a section of it. 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:32.279 And he was again just from memory, and I do 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.440 apologize to Richard dead for a little while and was revived, 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:39.159 and wow, he feels that his life since then is 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:44.400 not a palimpsest but a version of himself. And so 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:46.880 of course then I was thinking, I wonder if because 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.640 feeling that I'm the same as the King Algolu at 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.400 the age of two as I am at fifty five, 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.760 just bodily a little different. Yeah, but my nose has 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:57.560 stayed the same. 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:03.560 You would talk about having to go at fiction. I 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.719 read your memoir Detours. 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:07.599 I got that to pay a hope. 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:09.440 You just crossed your eyes. 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.800 Well, it was an interesting experience. I met a lot 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:19.440 of really wonderful people, my agent Melanie and Catherine Milne 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:23.400 at HarperCollins, and met a lot of authors through that experience. 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:28.479 So I'm really grateful for that experience. But I finished 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.360 the book to pay a hotel bill in Calgooley. I 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.920 went out there with my dad in about twenty fifteen 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.600 to watch some footy and dad was very sick by 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:38.479 that time, and we thought let's go out and see 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:40.360 the footy finals because he was an umpire out there, 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.880 and we racked up quite the tab at a number 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.760 of cal Gooley's finest establishments. And when I came back, 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:53.159 I started writing about it, and my agent, Melanie Ostell, said, 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.440 You've really got to pursue this, and I thought, well, 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.080 if I get a tiny advance, I can pay that 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.839 bar tab and no hotel wow, Chalgoley. And so look, I'm 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.799 pretty sure novelists have done and writers have written books 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.560 for less noble means than paying bar tabs. 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:15.120 Well, I signed a contract for a very regrettable job, 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.280 and that was to get me out of a let's 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.159 talk about it or no, I mean I can. So 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.279 it was for like a must, you must. It was 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.320 like a weight loss, you know, I think it was 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.040 years and years ago before I worked out how I 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.040 felt about that sort of stuff, you know, And now 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.080 I don't talk about my body at all. It's not 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:35.200 open for discussion. 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:40.080 Was there a date that you had the point where 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.440 you went yes and no, or just a feeling. 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:47.160 It was part of kind of a raft of changes 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.400 that I made in my life when I really started 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:57.560 to interrogate how I felt about things, and you know, 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.000 where I stood on things and what made me comfortable 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.920 and uncomfortable, and that was that was one of them 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.120 that I just went along with so many things because 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.520 that's what's expected. And when you do that and it 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:15.520 doesn't really fit you, you get you get sad, like 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.200 very it's. 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:19.520 Awful and anxious as well. 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:21.160 I'm very anxious. 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.920 Yes, you're representative of something that you don't have a 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:30.160 belief in. And of course, gee, throughout history, haven't we 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.240 just been you know, Look, there's a person looking this way. 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:39.480 Oh you're a female. Yeah, that's it, let's pass comment. Yeah, 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.200 I will remind you that you said that I'm taller 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:42.880 than you thought it. 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:44.920 Was you are taller than you that and I don't 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.880 know why I thought you were tired because of the whole. 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.160 I thought you were a tiny fellow. 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.720 Well, the Rolling Stones are a classic example of that. 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:58.160 Anyone who's ever met them will say humongous personalities. But 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.280 my lord, they're diminutive. 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:06.160 Which you are quite fine. So when I you is 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:14.960 you are so fun No, like you're elegant. So, because 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.600 I've never seen you in person, I just assumed that 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:21.200 that elegance came in a smaller package. 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:22.840 Which is a year and a half ago. It was 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.240 very brief. It was at radio, and I remember it 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:26.760 very finely. 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.200 It was in and out, but we haven't like communed. 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:36.959 Yeah. Yes, the cliches of the modern musician, I do 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.000 grab many of them because I think that the cliches 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:45.839 are being the wrong cliches. Are there that image of 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:47.880 if you're an rock and roll band, you're supposed to 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:53.560 be disrespectful and perennially lascivious and on the take, And 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.280 there's elements of that that are fun and good to share, 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.880 particularly if you can do all that and not trash 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.120 a hotel room because that means hard to work for 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.280 someone the next day, and as an ex hotel room 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.200 cleaner and respectful and so people get hurt and so 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.360 I think there's a way of being interesting and being 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.599 inverted commas rock and roll, but doing it in a 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.640 way where no one actually gets hurt or necessarily offended, 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:19.920 because being offensive isn't part of being rock and roll. 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.160 I think the only essential thing about being a rock 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.320 and roll apart from the music, is just to be interesting, 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:29.800 because we're supposed to do the things that others who 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:34.120 thankfully edit themselves and think twice about their behavior. Where're 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.960 supposed to be the ones who just jump And. 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.040 Do you think you're an interesting person? 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:48.120 I'm interested, and I've been in interesting circumstances, but at 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.680 the core, I don't think I've met interesting people who 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:59.600 have lived through horrific experiences and traumas and gone lived 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:03.079 through it. I find that of incredible interest. And then 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.120 met very very bookish, intelligent people. And I've met people 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.720 who aren't bookish, but I have a brilliant human intelligence, 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:17.920 and I'm not one of those, but I do. I think, listen, yeah, 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:25.520 And I enjoy studying and learning, and so that's where 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:26.320 the interests lie. 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:30.319 How important is curiosity to you essential? 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:34.920 And when, particularly with my father, when he got sick 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.120 and before he died, and you were sick for a 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.040 very long while, but he seemed to lose some of 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:46.280 the curiosity that he lived with. And I found really 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.160 intriguing about him. And it was mostly through pain because 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.800 he was in a lot of pain, and when you're 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:53.959 in pain, it's very difficult to see. 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:56.959 Yeah, you can't think of anything else. 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:03.520 No, with all great respect and love to him, I 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.959 just thought, I just need to keep my curiosity up 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:11.800 and not scleroticize and yeah, just kind of close up. 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.960 And of course, with the good fortune that I've had 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.240 health wise, as long as that lasts, the curiosity is 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:22.120 there because just so much to learn. I picked up 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.400 a book off a friend in Malmsbury the other day. 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:30.400 We get together and drink and play records. And this 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.000 was actually drinking tea and playing records, which was an anomaly. 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.600 But he had a book on quantum biology. Now I've 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.160 never started science. I'm interested in it, but this book 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:44.080 on quantum biology is frying my brain with wonderful information. 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.360 I didn't even know what existed. But it's about all. 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:52.320 Those neuropathways getting forged through. I love that feeling too. 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:54.760 It's just wonderful. I need. 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.880 Oh No, sometimes I hate that feeling. Actually, I've just 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:06.960 realized I had to learn about accounting, and it was 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:11.840 like dragging a dead body over a fence in the 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:16.000 middle of the night, Like I just it was so hard, 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.800 and then frustratingly a week later it was like I'd 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:24.240 never learned the thing. Yeah, there are some things that 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.559 I do not like to create new neuropathways. 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.959 For was the attempt to study accounting so you could 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:31.240 become accountable? 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:37.040 Well, no, it was just so that I knew about money. 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.800 I don't know anything about money, and I'm scared of it, 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:46.240 and I thought he's a good thing. You know, if 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.480 you're scared of something, get to know it. I tried 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.440 to get to know it. And I prefer ignorance to 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.479 be honest if I end up, you know, in jail. 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:57.920 Then you heard it here. 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.280 First. I've said that to my accountant, who may may 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.120 not be my mother, just last week. 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:03.240 You're lucky. 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.680 Well, yes i am. She's a wonderful woman and a great, 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.000 great friend apart from my mother and possibly my accountant. 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.040 But she said, haven't you been on the road all year? 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.680 You haven't been home in four months? Said yep, you 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:21.479 know you're broke. Oh no, okay, Okay. 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:23.840 Maybe you could write the other book at the advance. 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.319 Catherine Milne of Collins. 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.560 What brings you joy? Tim Rodgers? 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.840 Other people's happiness? I think I love. If I'm not 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.480 struck by a blue I won't call it depression. That's 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:48.640 another thing completely. But if I'm blue and other people's happiness, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.920 sometimes I take that as I get envious of it. 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:55.559 But at daylight today, we're feeling very good and balanced, 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.800 seeing other people happy, people out having a cup of tea, 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.320 sitting outside and having a beer and laughing with each other. 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.200 That's about it, I mean, apart from the big ones. 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:14.080 My daughter's eternal happiness is my eternal happiness. And I 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:15.640 was with her in New York just a couple of 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.440 weeks ago, and we were sitting there just smashing tins 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.160 in the East Village, and she just looked so happy 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:27.200 and healthy, and she was telling me about her latest relationship, 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.440 which she was a little cagey about telling me for 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.240 reasons I won't going to because it's her story. And 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.640 my response was, well, you're an intelligent young woman. You're 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.720 an intelligent woman. It doesn't matter what I think. You're 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.920 twenty three. You make good decisions. And you just seem 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.080 really great and so it doesn't matter what I think. 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.160 I know the guy he's a little too good. 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:55.360 Looking, and well they do say that, you know, we 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.520 end up with our fathers, So what's a gal to do? 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:05.920 My god, ah. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:07.120 That's Nightmereville. Although I did get contacted by someone recently 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:11.200 who was romantic with when I was very young, and 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.120 she contacted me the first time in forty years, and 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.040 my first response was I'm so sorry and I just 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:24.920 knew nothing about anything, and she said, you're actually really lovely. 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:26.920 So yeah, I was going to say, I bet that 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:28.800 was not her memory at all. 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:30.680 Have you had that experience? 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.760 Yes, I have. Yeah. Yeah. It reached out to me 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.920 and I was like, oh, my god, hi, how are 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:40.800 you And he said, oh, look, I've really I've been 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.360 feeling so bad about how it ended. And I was 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.360 I was like, what do you mean and he said, oh, 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.680 I acted like a real dick, and lah lah, And 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.880 I said, honestly, what a waste of time for you 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.600 to spent all these all these years feeling guilty. Yeah, 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:01.440 I feel no badness towards you, And that was not 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.840 my memory at all. I don't even know what you're 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:08.040 talking about isn't that interesting? Yeah, So never hang on 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:09.800 to that sort of stuff. I don't think. 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.480 Hang on to I think it's worth examining. And I 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.360 look forward to meeting up with this human and talking 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.960 about it because and talking about that and whether the 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:27.960 obfuscation of memory is that just that obfuscation or there's 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.960 something in that. I don't particularly just want to give 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.800 myself a free pass yet because I haven't always been 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.080 noble and probably won't in the future at times, and 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.480 just want to kind of check myself, you know. Geez. 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.440 People can justify a hell of a lot, can't they. 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.080 And the more you read history, you see people the 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.360 way people can justify their actions. It's just historically always been. 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.640 But don't you think that maybe I think this is 0:16:55.680 --> 0:17:00.200 what happens in those situations. What you're feeling inside is 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:05.320 maybe diabolical towards that person. But because we're human beings 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:10.200 and we've learnt to communicate in a way that gets 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.760 us what we want without completely annihilating the other person, 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:20.080 I think you've manipulated the situation to your advantage without 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:25.360 overtly brutally tearing it out of her chest. And while 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.480 it's still beating, taking a white out of it. So 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.800 you know how you were feeling and it wasn't great, 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:35.400 and that you're ashamed about that. But this is how 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:36.840 I sort of worked it out with this guy that 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.359 reached out to me. The way he was feeling was 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:44.320 not great. He didn't tell me that, but he knows 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:46.479 how he felt and he doesn't feel that way anymore, 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.600 and he's ashamed of it. And he sort of assumes 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.280 that I knew that that's what was happening. 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.720 I didn't, because if you don't enunciate it. Yeah, we're 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.240 not mind readers, that's right, unless you are actually my 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.280 mind reader. 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.880 How are you with compliments? Because I've read all sorts 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:08.080 of stuff about you before this chat, and my god, 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.640 people just say the nicest thing of things about you, like. 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:16.560 Not today, Yes they do. It sort of gets leveled up. 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:23.280 With wordsmith, a poet, a bon vivante, op shop dressed dandy. 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:24.720 I mean, I just love that. Anyway. 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.000 I do buy secondhand clothes, but never from opportunity shops. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.720 I buy things for opportunity shops to keep the opportunity 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.159 shops going. But I'm also a germiphied, So if I 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.440 buy something that hasn't been thoroughly. 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:41.920 We are a match made in heaven because I am 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:47.000 mad for the laundry. Yeah, so I could give you 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.359 that wonderful peace of mind to just go crazy wherever 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:52.040 you want, and then you would hand it to me 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.560 and the next day twenty four hour service. Tim Rogers. 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.520 I'm big on doing my laundry and not God, I 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.639 love it done. But I was just in Europe last 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.240 month with the heart Ons. We're doing this tour and 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.959 one of my bandmates is similar to me in the 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:12.320 fastidiousness of you know, what we call mysophobia and germophobia. 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.000 And when you're in a group like the hard Ons, 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.359 you at least two dozen times a day confronted with 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:24.480 situations where that you're challenged and so would have to 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:28.800 just navigate that. But once we express to each other 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:33.000 that we're of a similar way of thinking, we look 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.919 out for each other in kind of silent ways because 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.239 we just don't everyone doesn't need to know. 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:40.280 So what does that look like to look out for 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:45.960 somebody who shares that germophobia? Like do you just with 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.440 out a little sanitizer and mortar. 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.679 And the soap, you know, because the other thing to 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.480 do is to not exacerbate the condition because it's a 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.720 drag and would love not to be that way, and. 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.719 Because you like that way your whole life. 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:05.520 From about fourteen or fifteen, developed what now I guess 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.800 would be diagnosed as in an anxiety disorder. It was misdiagnosed. 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.520 I was heavily medicated for it from about sixteen, but 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.720 it was just an anxiety disorder. And in that I 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.800 was having attacks that were so psychedelic I thought they 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.960 were drug related because I was a fledgling drug taker 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:27.640 at fourteen fifteen, thirteen, and there really wasn't the language 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.520 around it or that. Maybe I'm sure the knowledge was there, 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:32.320 but it's just not something that you talked about, and 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.000 so because I couldn't talk about it, then it just 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.840 tumbled and tumbled and tumbled and grew and grew and 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:44.399 grew until it became incapacitated, like twenty at law school 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.920 in Canberra, and then I got asked to join a 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:52.960 rock band. The circumstances where you're confronted as a German 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:57.160 in a touring rock band, it's just everywhere, and particularly 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:01.480 if you fall into the whole romance of it, where 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.800 you're supposed to be this free wheeling lass, a fair bohemian. 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.520 A Flanner, which is one of my favorite words. 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.760 Walking is the greatest of all exercise. 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:14.760 Yes, it is. It's changed my life. 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.440 There's a great book called Flanouse. Yes, because Flanner has 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:25.760 been typecast as a gentleman and Elk can Lauren Elk 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:27.760 and I think her name was, write this great book, Flanous, 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:31.240 And it's about being an observer as a woman on 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:35.920 the streets. And she looks back because women are generally observed. 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.760 You can get by being looking like someone like maybe 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.480 she's saying as a young woman, as a middle aged woman, 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.840 to be an observer gets looked at differently. That you 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.720 can't just walk around and cast any and everything. When 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.760 I asked my friends, can you go out to a 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:55.520 bar or a cafe and take a book and be 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:59.720 left alone? And one hundred percent of my friends, who 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:04.040 aren't sort of sisters that would males, say no, it 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:06.720 just doesn't happen. It's not worth what happens. They get 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.280 approached and or get asked or you know, are you oka? 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:13.760 Is there something wrong? Whereas someone like me can take 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.280 a book to a bar and finish ulysses in an 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:17.160 eight hour sitting and. 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:20.600 Not well, well, I'm the one person that you're going 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:22.280 to ask that question too that says yeah, I would 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:25.440 absolutely be left alone and have been my whole life. 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:29.680 You yeah, really absolutely. 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:31.120 Bloom with theory, Scott. 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.280 I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry to sorry. 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:34.520 I'm glad. 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.160 Yeah. Yeah, that's some and I love to do it too. 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:37.960 I love it. 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:43.840 Taking a book two or a notepad. 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:46.880 Doing anything on your own is my favorite thing. 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:50.040 A really really good friend of mine who's a singer, 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:53.679 a woman it said, do you go out to barsa 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:56.080 a couple by herself? She said, you can't because she 0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:58.080 can't stand people looking at her as if she's a 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:04.719 She used loser. Oh no, mean myself out somewhere as 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:09.080 you are a winning absolutely winning. 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:11.280 I love it. I love being by myself and I 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:13.520 need it to like maintain who I am. 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:17.200 So can you be left alone even being you bes 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:20.200 those out in the world? 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:24.639 I mean, ah, pretty much? Yeah. Yeah. I've had a 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:31.320 very good experience of being recognizable, and I enjoy the 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.760 little exchanges I have with people that I don't know. 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:40.000 I love that. It gives me a little burst because 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.080 I still never expect it, even though it does happen 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:45.640 every day. It's a real delight because I remember, I'm like, oh, yeah, 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:47.479 that's right, I've got a radio show and I've been 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:49.080 on Telly and do you know what I mean. I 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:52.760 just I get so thrilled by it. But in terms 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:55.879 of when I, you know, go to the movies on 0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:58.840 my own or grab a you know, bowl of pasta 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:01.840