1 00:00:04,260 --> 00:00:06,570 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,570 --> 00:00:10,559 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. The cost of living crisis has hit households hard 3 00:00:10,860 --> 00:00:13,110 Sean Aylmer: and now workers are taking the issue up with their 4 00:00:13,110 --> 00:00:18,449 Sean Aylmer: employers. New research from global recruitment consultancy, Robert Walters, shows 5 00:00:18,449 --> 00:00:21,119 Sean Aylmer: nearly four and five workers expect to start looking for 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,100 Sean Aylmer: a new job in the next year if they don't 7 00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:26,790 Sean Aylmer: get a pay rise that beats inflation. It's a challenge 8 00:00:26,849 --> 00:00:29,849 Sean Aylmer: for both sides because while workers are dealing with higher 9 00:00:29,849 --> 00:00:33,689 Sean Aylmer: interest rates, grocery and power bills, cost for businesses are 10 00:00:33,690 --> 00:00:37,200 Sean Aylmer: also spiking. Andrew Hanson is the Managing Director New South 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,170 Sean Aylmer: Wales at Robert Walters. Andrew, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:40,530 --> 00:00:41,460 Andrew Hanson: Sean, thanks for having me. 13 00:00:41,940 --> 00:00:44,970 Sean Aylmer: Take me through some of the key stats from your 14 00:00:44,970 --> 00:00:48,958 Sean Aylmer: research. Do most workers realistically expect wage increases to be 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:53,129 Sean Aylmer: higher than CPI? I mean, that's 7%, 7. 5%. That's a 16 00:00:53,129 --> 00:00:53,700 Sean Aylmer: big jump. 17 00:00:54,420 --> 00:00:56,580 Andrew Hanson: It is indeed. And I think that, well, you mentioned 18 00:00:56,580 --> 00:00:59,220 Andrew Hanson: that there already, that four and five candidates that we 19 00:00:59,220 --> 00:01:01,830 Andrew Hanson: surveyed are saying that they're likely to hunt for a 20 00:01:01,830 --> 00:01:04,619 Andrew Hanson: new job if they don't get that pay rise. I'm not 21 00:01:04,620 --> 00:01:07,740 Andrew Hanson: sure that everybody believes that realistically they will get that, 22 00:01:07,740 --> 00:01:11,639 Andrew Hanson: but I think when you're looking at your personal finances 23 00:01:11,639 --> 00:01:12,959 Andrew Hanson: and what's going on in the home, I think many 24 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,959 Andrew Hanson: people really need that. Yeah, it's going to be very 25 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:17,369 Andrew Hanson: interesting to see how things play out. 26 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,880 Sean Aylmer: What about the threat to leave? Do you think it's 27 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,730 Sean Aylmer: just the result of a survey? I mean, it's easier 28 00:01:23,730 --> 00:01:26,099 Sean Aylmer: in a survey to say, " I'm happy to leave," than 29 00:01:26,099 --> 00:01:27,329 Sean Aylmer: to actually do it obviously. 30 00:01:28,139 --> 00:01:31,620 Andrew Hanson: It is indeed. And do I firmly believe that 78% 31 00:01:31,620 --> 00:01:34,050 Andrew Hanson: of candidates are going to move? No, I don't. I 32 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,530 Andrew Hanson: think it will be very much individuals looking at their 33 00:01:37,650 --> 00:01:41,190 Andrew Hanson: personal circumstances as they work into next year and to 34 00:01:41,190 --> 00:01:43,049 Andrew Hanson: look, is it realistic for them to move? Will they 35 00:01:43,049 --> 00:01:44,789 Andrew Hanson: be able to find that opportunity that's going to pay 36 00:01:44,789 --> 00:01:48,419 Andrew Hanson: them, let's say 10% if it's going to beat inflation 37 00:01:48,420 --> 00:01:51,120 Andrew Hanson: for them to move? But I really do think this 38 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,720 Andrew Hanson: is a real challenge for employers and employees as we 39 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,280 Andrew Hanson: face into next year. And I think it's going to 40 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,428 Andrew Hanson: be one of the most complex environments that we've had 41 00:01:59,429 --> 00:02:01,140 Andrew Hanson: to navigate in many years. 42 00:02:01,500 --> 00:02:06,180 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. For employers, it must make them rethink how they 43 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,870 Sean Aylmer: operate. It's remuneration may get someone across the line, but 44 00:02:09,870 --> 00:02:12,360 Sean Aylmer: it probably doesn't keep them there. People want to work 45 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,090 Sean Aylmer: in an operation that they want to work in as 46 00:02:15,090 --> 00:02:17,820 Sean Aylmer: opposed to just the money. Do you think employers are 47 00:02:17,820 --> 00:02:18,600 Sean Aylmer: thinking like that? 48 00:02:19,169 --> 00:02:21,539 Andrew Hanson: I think they are. And I think many employers, many 49 00:02:21,540 --> 00:02:25,770 Andrew Hanson: have had to find real increases for certain skills over 50 00:02:25,770 --> 00:02:27,839 Andrew Hanson: the last year or two to be able to retain 51 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,160 Andrew Hanson: particular talent in certain areas. I think the consideration of 52 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,340 Andrew Hanson: the value of non- monetary benefits, such as additional training, 53 00:02:35,820 --> 00:02:39,179 Andrew Hanson: boosted leave entitlements, they have to adapt those priorities in 54 00:02:39,179 --> 00:02:41,279 Andrew Hanson: line with the prevailing economic conditions that are going to 55 00:02:41,279 --> 00:02:44,910 Andrew Hanson: be crucial in a high inflation, low growth environment. 56 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,419 Sean Aylmer: Okay. You talk about the prevailing economic conditions. This is 57 00:02:48,419 --> 00:02:51,030 Sean Aylmer: all fine when unemployment is at three and a half 58 00:02:51,030 --> 00:02:53,490 Sean Aylmer: percent. In 12 months time, that could be four and 59 00:02:53,490 --> 00:02:55,410 Sean Aylmer: a half percent. And 12 months after that, it could well 60 00:02:55,410 --> 00:02:58,828 Sean Aylmer: be in the fives or even sixes. Is it just 61 00:02:58,829 --> 00:03:03,360 Sean Aylmer: that people now know they can get another job, so 62 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,889 Sean Aylmer: are prepared to threaten to leave, as opposed to normal 63 00:03:07,889 --> 00:03:09,358 Sean Aylmer: circumstances, I suppose? 64 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:12,960 Andrew Hanson: Well, yes. I think it is a good set of 65 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,979 Andrew Hanson: circumstances on paper at least for many employees. There is 66 00:03:16,980 --> 00:03:19,770 Andrew Hanson: some confidence. Having said that, I think that people are 67 00:03:19,770 --> 00:03:22,620 Andrew Hanson: looking down the track and starting to be a little 68 00:03:22,620 --> 00:03:25,230 Andrew Hanson: more worried about where things might end up. But this 69 00:03:25,230 --> 00:03:28,559 Andrew Hanson: starts at the point where people are really considering, " Where 70 00:03:28,559 --> 00:03:30,989 Andrew Hanson: am I going to be off in real labor terms 71 00:03:30,990 --> 00:03:32,820 Andrew Hanson: now?" And certainly, if they look at say, over a 72 00:03:32,820 --> 00:03:36,930 Andrew Hanson: two year period compared with their personal costs to run 73 00:03:36,930 --> 00:03:40,050 Andrew Hanson: their lives, their mortgage, look at rent, look at cost 74 00:03:40,050 --> 00:03:41,910 Andrew Hanson: of groceries, and so on and so forth, and energy, 75 00:03:41,910 --> 00:03:44,970 Andrew Hanson: of course, that they have some confidence with the market 76 00:03:44,970 --> 00:03:47,070 Andrew Hanson: as it is now. And they have a real need 77 00:03:47,250 --> 00:03:49,230 Andrew Hanson: to see an increase in their pay packet. 78 00:03:50,099 --> 00:03:52,589 Sean Aylmer: It's happening now? I'm wondering when all this comes to 79 00:03:52,590 --> 00:03:53,040 Sean Aylmer: a head. 80 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,390 Andrew Hanson: It's happening now. Absolutely. People are at that traditional time 81 00:03:57,390 --> 00:03:59,940 Andrew Hanson: where they're coming to the end of a calendar year. 82 00:04:00,210 --> 00:04:03,090 Andrew Hanson: We've got differences across different industries that we work in, 83 00:04:03,090 --> 00:04:07,049 Andrew Hanson: of course, of pay cycles, whether companies be international firms, 84 00:04:07,259 --> 00:04:10,110 Andrew Hanson: some pay on a calendar year, some pay on the 85 00:04:10,410 --> 00:04:13,680 Andrew Hanson: Australian tax year. But it is a traditional time for 86 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,650 Andrew Hanson: people to give consideration to coming to the end of 87 00:04:16,650 --> 00:04:19,049 Andrew Hanson: the year. They've got a break at Christmas and they're 88 00:04:19,050 --> 00:04:21,419 Andrew Hanson: really starting to look into the new year, especially with 89 00:04:21,420 --> 00:04:23,938 Andrew Hanson: everything that's in the headlines at the moment when they're 90 00:04:23,940 --> 00:04:27,448 Andrew Hanson: looking at the government talking very clearly about how they 91 00:04:27,450 --> 00:04:30,059 Andrew Hanson: see things moving forward and what's being done in the 92 00:04:30,059 --> 00:04:32,640 Andrew Hanson: current conversations. It is real and people are starting to 93 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,860 Andrew Hanson: pop their heads up and give consideration to, " If I 94 00:04:34,860 --> 00:04:37,529 Andrew Hanson: were to move, what is out there for me? And 95 00:04:37,529 --> 00:04:40,649 Andrew Hanson: could I see real increase for myself in terms of 96 00:04:40,650 --> 00:04:41,789 Andrew Hanson: my salary and benefits?" 97 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,660 Sean Aylmer: Is the grass always greener on the other side, Andrew? 98 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,290 Andrew Hanson: I'd have to say no, it's not. I really do 99 00:04:49,290 --> 00:04:53,010 Andrew Hanson: think that we're speaking to both our candidates, of course, 100 00:04:53,010 --> 00:04:56,610 Andrew Hanson: and our clients. And encouraging them to have open and 101 00:04:56,610 --> 00:04:59,669 Andrew Hanson: honest conversations about what they want and what they can 102 00:04:59,670 --> 00:05:02,160 Andrew Hanson: give on both sides. And I think it's only through 103 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,879 Andrew Hanson: constructive conversations like this that people can hope to secure 104 00:05:05,879 --> 00:05:09,299 Andrew Hanson: the best outcome, whether that be moving or whether it 105 00:05:09,300 --> 00:05:12,029 Andrew Hanson: be giving some consideration to the fact they work for 106 00:05:12,029 --> 00:05:15,990 Andrew Hanson: a business. The business has costs and it has medium 107 00:05:15,990 --> 00:05:19,349 Andrew Hanson: and long- term goals as well. I think that sensible 108 00:05:19,349 --> 00:05:23,068 Andrew Hanson: people will be engaging and having conversations before they get 109 00:05:23,070 --> 00:05:25,440 Andrew Hanson: to the point of pulling the trigger and jumping ship, 110 00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:28,049 Andrew Hanson: because it's not always the case that the grass is 111 00:05:28,050 --> 00:05:28,620 Andrew Hanson: always greener. 112 00:05:29,190 --> 00:05:31,140 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Andrew. We'll be back in a minute. 113 00:05:37,170 --> 00:05:39,719 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Andrew Hanson, managing director New 114 00:05:39,719 --> 00:05:43,738 Sean Aylmer: South Wales at Robert Walters. Okay. Now, I worked at 115 00:05:43,740 --> 00:05:46,890 Sean Aylmer: Fairfax for a long while. And that was a company 116 00:05:46,890 --> 00:05:50,730 Sean Aylmer: whose revenue model had broken because of the internet. And 117 00:05:50,910 --> 00:05:54,359 Sean Aylmer: wasn't really until I got into management and even relatively 118 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,440 Sean Aylmer: senior management that I fully appreciated the cost pressures of 119 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,930 Sean Aylmer: that organization. From my point of view, I was a 120 00:06:00,930 --> 00:06:02,549 Sean Aylmer: journalist, I wanted to get paid as much as I 121 00:06:02,550 --> 00:06:05,100 Sean Aylmer: could. And I worked really hard and I thought I 122 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:10,289 Sean Aylmer: should get paid well. But suddenly, it hit me, if 123 00:06:10,290 --> 00:06:12,270 Sean Aylmer: everyone gets paid really well, you don't have a business 124 00:06:12,630 --> 00:06:18,089 Sean Aylmer: effectively. How aware do you think our employees of that 125 00:06:18,900 --> 00:06:20,940 Sean Aylmer: ying and yang in an organization? 126 00:06:21,540 --> 00:06:24,480 Andrew Hanson: I think that's a hard question to answer across the 127 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,698 Andrew Hanson: board. I think where you look at candidates that work 128 00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:29,550 Andrew Hanson: in particular types of roles, say in a financial services 129 00:06:29,550 --> 00:06:32,878 Andrew Hanson: company or in a finance function, perhaps they're more attuned 130 00:06:33,540 --> 00:06:35,729 Andrew Hanson: to the real costs of the business. But I do 131 00:06:35,730 --> 00:06:39,300 Andrew Hanson: think that there are a large percentage of candidates out 132 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:42,510 Andrew Hanson: there or individuals out there that may not have a total 133 00:06:42,510 --> 00:06:45,870 Andrew Hanson: appreciation. But I guess what employers need to understand is 134 00:06:46,170 --> 00:06:49,289 Andrew Hanson: they can't expect everybody to have that understanding. And as 135 00:06:49,290 --> 00:06:53,160 Andrew Hanson: such, they really need to be thinking very carefully about 136 00:06:53,250 --> 00:06:56,520 Andrew Hanson: ensuring that they're consulting appropriately with, in particular the people 137 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,180 Andrew Hanson: that they really can't do business without. It's a very tricky 138 00:07:00,180 --> 00:07:00,990 Andrew Hanson: balance at the moment. 139 00:07:02,010 --> 00:07:04,708 Sean Aylmer: Your research has data on sectors and roles that are 140 00:07:04,710 --> 00:07:08,549 Sean Aylmer: seeing strong salary growth and also some that are seeing 141 00:07:08,549 --> 00:07:13,470 Sean Aylmer: declines in salaries. Strangely, some sectors seem to be represented 142 00:07:13,470 --> 00:07:16,980 Sean Aylmer: on both sides of the equation. Marketing directors have had 143 00:07:16,980 --> 00:07:20,790 Sean Aylmer: huge salary growth, whereas digital marketing managers pretty much have 144 00:07:20,790 --> 00:07:23,490 Sean Aylmer: had none. How's all that work? 145 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,709 Andrew Hanson: Well, I mean, our survey works across thousands of data 146 00:07:28,709 --> 00:07:32,250 Andrew Hanson: points for this. And remember, we're working within our specialist 147 00:07:32,250 --> 00:07:35,010 Andrew Hanson: areas. We're a white collar professional recruiter, so it doesn't 148 00:07:35,010 --> 00:07:38,220 Andrew Hanson: cover all areas of the market. But we've seen some 149 00:07:38,610 --> 00:07:43,290 Andrew Hanson: areas like say technology where there's been significant pay increase 150 00:07:43,290 --> 00:07:46,109 Andrew Hanson: over the last couple of years. And employers are starting 151 00:07:46,109 --> 00:07:47,639 Andrew Hanson: to get to the point where they just don't know 152 00:07:47,639 --> 00:07:51,720 Andrew Hanson: where they can continue to increase. However, some of these 153 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,600 Andrew Hanson: roles are absolutely paramount to their ability to be able 154 00:07:54,600 --> 00:08:00,360 Andrew Hanson: to continue to take their business forward. Across the board, 155 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,649 Andrew Hanson: there's some examples where they're outliers. But broadly across the 156 00:08:04,650 --> 00:08:07,830 Andrew Hanson: board, haven't got one sector that where all salaries are 157 00:08:07,830 --> 00:08:11,100 Andrew Hanson: necessarily going up. Some of them are quite specialists, as 158 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:14,099 Andrew Hanson: you'd understand. It could be an investment consultant in an 159 00:08:14,099 --> 00:08:17,849 Andrew Hanson: asset management business, for example. There's real appetite for those 160 00:08:17,849 --> 00:08:20,040 Andrew Hanson: particular individuals at the moment, but there may be other 161 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,009 Andrew Hanson: roles within asset management in a slightly different capacity that 162 00:08:23,010 --> 00:08:26,880 Andrew Hanson: maybe in real terms aren't seeing growth. I mean, I 163 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,130 Andrew Hanson: guess that's the value of our business to be able 164 00:08:29,130 --> 00:08:33,179 Andrew Hanson: to consult individually with businesses and individuals on the specific 165 00:08:33,179 --> 00:08:36,990 Andrew Hanson: areas. And these things change quite quickly as well. In 166 00:08:36,990 --> 00:08:39,329 Andrew Hanson: another three months or six months, we will see changes 167 00:08:39,330 --> 00:08:41,909 Andrew Hanson: start to move through. This is a point in time, 168 00:08:42,510 --> 00:08:46,588 Andrew Hanson: but yeah, there are different definitely differences in different sectors. 169 00:08:46,950 --> 00:08:49,770 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Sitting there as the managing director in New South Wales 170 00:08:49,770 --> 00:08:53,970 Sean Aylmer: at Robert Walters, what are you telling clients, clients being 171 00:08:54,570 --> 00:08:57,780 Sean Aylmer: companies that you are trying to help find people for, 172 00:08:58,109 --> 00:09:00,119 Sean Aylmer: how should they approach it? And then the next question 173 00:09:00,119 --> 00:09:02,160 Sean Aylmer: I'm going ask you is, as an employer, you are 174 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,500 Sean Aylmer: a potential candidate. How should I be thinking about it? 175 00:09:05,610 --> 00:09:08,580 Andrew Hanson: To employers, we are encouraging them to ensure that they 176 00:09:08,580 --> 00:09:11,400 Andrew Hanson: have a full talent map on their organization. They've got 177 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,270 Andrew Hanson: to look at their prioritization of roles. Who can't they 178 00:09:15,270 --> 00:09:18,990 Andrew Hanson: afford to lose? Where are they relatively comfortable at the moment? 179 00:09:18,990 --> 00:09:22,320 Andrew Hanson: And I don't think very many businesses are operating with 180 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:23,880 Andrew Hanson: a lot of fat in them these days. I mean, 181 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,250 Andrew Hanson: we've seen that over a long period of time that's 182 00:09:26,790 --> 00:09:30,420 Andrew Hanson: been worked out. But I think that we are working with employers 183 00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:33,750 Andrew Hanson: to look at priorities, to look at talent mapping. And 184 00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:36,630 Andrew Hanson: to start early and ensure that conversations are being had and 185 00:09:36,869 --> 00:09:40,140 Andrew Hanson: they're not being brushed under the carpet. Because by looking 186 00:09:40,140 --> 00:09:42,870 Andrew Hanson: at these things and engaging their employees, they can start 187 00:09:42,870 --> 00:09:45,899 Andrew Hanson: to understand, and I mentioned before, can they look at 188 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:49,320 Andrew Hanson: those non- monetary benefits? Can they be working with individuals 189 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,049 Andrew Hanson: to look at the culture of the organization? What more 190 00:09:52,049 --> 00:09:54,029 Andrew Hanson: can they be doing to make it really hard for 191 00:09:54,029 --> 00:09:56,429 Andrew Hanson: people to move? And I'm not suggesting they're doing that 192 00:09:56,429 --> 00:09:59,760 Andrew Hanson: by underpaying staff, but they're probably under just as much 193 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,070 Andrew Hanson: pressure as they are as their competitor as to whether 194 00:10:02,070 --> 00:10:04,770 Andrew Hanson: they can put that salary up for a particular role. 195 00:10:04,950 --> 00:10:07,289 Andrew Hanson: And on the candidate side, as I mentioned before, we 196 00:10:07,290 --> 00:10:10,348 Andrew Hanson: are urging people to have a proper full view of 197 00:10:10,350 --> 00:10:13,350 Andrew Hanson: what's most important to them. And in some cases people, 198 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,929 Andrew Hanson: they can't survive on the pay that they're on at 199 00:10:15,929 --> 00:10:17,940 Andrew Hanson: the moment, at one end of the spectrum. And in 200 00:10:17,940 --> 00:10:20,520 Andrew Hanson: others, they have real aspiration that they believe they are 201 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:25,140 Andrew Hanson: being underpaid to market based on their skills and capabilities. 202 00:10:25,530 --> 00:10:27,810 Andrew Hanson: But we are still looking at it's the full picture. 203 00:10:27,839 --> 00:10:31,019 Andrew Hanson: You've got to understand how is your career developing? What 204 00:10:31,050 --> 00:10:33,990 Andrew Hanson: learning and development is there? And we encourage people to 205 00:10:33,990 --> 00:10:36,930 Andrew Hanson: take an holistic view to their circumstances on both sides. 206 00:10:37,290 --> 00:10:40,830 Sean Aylmer: Listening to you, Andrew, it seems like there's an opportunity 207 00:10:40,830 --> 00:10:45,269 Sean Aylmer: on both sides, employers and employees to rethink how they operate. 208 00:10:46,170 --> 00:10:48,119 Andrew Hanson: I'd agree with that up to a point. I think 209 00:10:48,119 --> 00:10:50,970 Andrew Hanson: that there is a real opportunity on both sides to 210 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:56,099 Andrew Hanson: really have more open, honest conversations. Because I think from 211 00:10:56,099 --> 00:10:58,319 Andrew Hanson: the candidate experience, we speak to a lot of people 212 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,718 Andrew Hanson: that come to us and they're looking for advice. They 213 00:11:00,719 --> 00:11:02,939 Andrew Hanson: won't have had that conversation with their boss. They're too 214 00:11:02,940 --> 00:11:06,840 Andrew Hanson: scared. They pop their head up. Is it seen to 215 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,720 Andrew Hanson: be that they're the next person that perhaps they might 216 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,540 Andrew Hanson: not get that promotion? Or may they find themselves out 217 00:11:12,540 --> 00:11:15,059 Andrew Hanson: of a job if they're pushing too hard? But if 218 00:11:15,059 --> 00:11:16,770 Andrew Hanson: we are speaking to people and they haven't had a 219 00:11:16,770 --> 00:11:19,799 Andrew Hanson: conversation in the recent past, we encourage them to have 220 00:11:19,799 --> 00:11:23,488 Andrew Hanson: an open conversation. Even if it is just to understand 221 00:11:23,490 --> 00:11:25,770 Andrew Hanson: or get some visibility on what does next year look 222 00:11:25,770 --> 00:11:28,199 Andrew Hanson: like. They might not have been told what pay rises 223 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,780 Andrew Hanson: look like. Just to get a full appreciation and to 224 00:11:30,780 --> 00:11:33,030 Andrew Hanson: do it in a way that's constructive as opposed to 225 00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:36,540 Andrew Hanson: being overly demanding, depending on the environment. And the same 226 00:11:36,540 --> 00:11:40,739 Andrew Hanson: goes with our clients, I guess the employers. I don't 227 00:11:40,740 --> 00:11:43,679 Andrew Hanson: think, you're not going to change everything overnight. But I 228 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:45,780 Andrew Hanson: do think that there's a lot, there is a real 229 00:11:45,780 --> 00:11:49,708 Andrew Hanson: opportunity for more open, honest conversations from both sides to 230 00:11:49,710 --> 00:11:53,400 Andrew Hanson: look at where are the possibilities? Where there is, may 231 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,740 Andrew Hanson: as well meet it head on. There's a challenge here. 232 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,458 Andrew Hanson: We have costs that have gone up. We are looking 233 00:11:59,458 --> 00:12:03,420 Andrew Hanson: to increase salaries as much as we can. However, perhaps 234 00:12:03,420 --> 00:12:05,100 Andrew Hanson: it's not going to be, and they're prepared to come 235 00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:07,320 Andrew Hanson: out and say they're not going be across the board at 7.3% 236 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,400 Andrew Hanson: say. I think those conversations are super important. 237 00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:13,830 Sean Aylmer: Andrew, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 238 00:12:14,250 --> 00:12:14,880 Andrew Hanson: Thanks for having me. 239 00:12:15,420 --> 00:12:18,600 Sean Aylmer: That was Andrew Hanson managing Direct in New South Wales at Robert 240 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,870 Sean Aylmer: Walters. This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join 241 00:12:21,870 --> 00:12:23,940 Sean Aylmer: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and 242 00:12:23,940 --> 00:12:28,110 Sean Aylmer: Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy 243 00:12:28,110 --> 00:12:28,530 Sean Aylmer: your day.