1 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Australian's Money Pozzitle podcast. I'm 2 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: James Kirkby. Welcome aboard everybody. I'm guessing it's a very 3 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: good chance you have a mortgage at home or possibly 4 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: a mortgage on an investment property. You know that one 5 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: hundred thousand people refinanced their mortgages in the first quarter 6 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: of this year. That's more than one hundred a day, 7 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: and across rates are dropping, so it really is an opportunity, 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: so to take up that opportunity. My guest today is 9 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: Christian Stevens. He is a mortgage broker at the Flint Group. 10 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: He is the winner of the Mortgage Broker of the 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: Year three times. How are you Christian? 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: Good? You heard me, James. 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: Nice to have you on the show. They're big numbers. 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: Do people refinance more when rates are dropping? Is that 15 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: generally how it goes? Interesting questions? So it's a two 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: answer there. 17 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:06,279 Speaker 3: Definitely, when rates are in a cutting cycle, you'll find 18 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 3: lenders will pass. 19 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: All or pour a portion of the loan on. 20 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 3: What that means there's a bit of a discrepancy between 21 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 3: what lenders are providing. We're definitely seeing that after the 22 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 3: third rate cut that there's about a twenty twenty five 23 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 3: basis point difference between lenders depending on your needs an objective. 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 3: So there's been a probably forty percent increase in the 25 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 3: amount of clients looking to refinance this time last year. 26 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 3: I actually went through my entire backbook of clients and 27 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 3: repriced all of them and found that ninety percent of 28 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 3: them were already on probably the most competitive rate that 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 3: they could get, with lenders aggressively repricing in the retention 30 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 3: teams trying to keep those clients. Now, though definitely seeing 31 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 3: an opportunity for clients to refinance, which probably goes off 32 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 3: the back of what your comment was before. There's definitely 33 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 3: an increase of clients financing, reaching out about refinancing, di consolidating, 34 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 3: accessing equity. 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: But yet there's a lot of moving in the market 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: at the moment. 37 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: You see people will see that rates are coming down, 38 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: but they won't necessarily move immediately. 39 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 4: But of course we've had two cuts. 40 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: Now and there is it would seem at least one 41 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: more to come. There's two sort of areas that want 42 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: I told you about. 43 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 4: One is trying to get. 44 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: Your mortgage reduced from your existing financial institution without going 45 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: through the whole thing of moving, and then the second 46 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: part obviously is moving. 47 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 4: But tell me, in terms of getting. 48 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: A mortgage rate lowered by the bank you've been dealing 49 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: with beyond the power cuts that are coming through that 50 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: is that the links with the RBA is that feasible? 51 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: Is that our banks, when you say they have it's 52 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: nice to know, right, they have retention teams. To these 53 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: retention teams, if I was to call them and say 54 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: I'm just unhappy and they say, well, that's the rate, 55 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: and I say, well, I'm just unhappy with it, and 56 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,679 Speaker 1: I feel like leaving, how would I improve that negotiation? 57 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: That have probably haven't sounded very good there and I 58 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't sound good to the bank. 59 00:02:58,440 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 4: You're the pro tell us what to do. 60 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 3: There's a bit of a process, James. So each bank 61 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: has a def a different way that they will try 62 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 3: and retain clients. Some will offer your best rate immediately upfront. 63 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: Some you've got to go through a bit of a 64 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 3: journey to get that rate. So your broker, given that 65 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 3: you know eighty percent of loans are written through brokers, 66 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: most of your listeners would probably have got their loan 67 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:25,839 Speaker 3: through a broken So what they should do is reach 68 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 3: out to the ask them to reprice their loan. And 69 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 3: there's a bit of a process there. So what they 70 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 3: will do is get your existing statement, look at your 71 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 3: loan to e ratios has the value with the property 72 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 3: as opposed to how much debt you have, and go 73 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 3: back to the bank and do a pricing. That pricing 74 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 3: would normally, you know, come back relatively competitive. 75 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: They've got an option to escalate that pricing again. But 76 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: where you're going to see the biggest value is if 77 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: you do a bit of comparison. 78 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 3: So if that broker go say if you're with you know, 79 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 3: aim Z, the broker will go and see what NAB 80 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 3: and CBA and Quarry and Westpac are offering, and then 81 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 3: go back to that lender and say, hey, I know 82 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 3: that you offered us five point seven, but all the 83 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 3: other banks are offering five point six? Can we please 84 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 3: match that? And that's where you can normally get that 85 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 3: little bit extra. What I was saying before is retention 86 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 3: teams are aggressively trying to keep clients. If you ask 87 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 3: me the same question years ago, and they couldn't really 88 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 3: care too much because there was so much business going around. 89 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 3: But these days the retention teams are actually quite competitive. 90 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: We're not seeing huge discrepancy between new tubank clients and 91 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 3: existing clients. Yes, there's always a bit of a difference 92 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 3: there called multi tax. You're always going to get a 93 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 3: better deal going to a new bank, but at the 94 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 3: same time, a relatively sharp rate with the lender you've 95 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 3: currently got, as long as you're broker is proactive and 96 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,799 Speaker 3: getting on the front foot down and repricing that moment. 97 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: What I read was when people of the one hundred 98 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: or so a day that refinanced one hundred thousand that 99 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: did so in the first quarter of the year, they 100 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: saved on average something close they said zero point eight percent. 101 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: So coming up on one and so people went in 102 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: the door, they may have had a rated six, and 103 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: they came out the door with the rate of five 104 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: points something. Is that that people should be looking for. 105 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: Is that a feasible target to take it down by 106 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: one of its six, it's five, its five, it's four. 107 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: That's quite a lot. 108 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 3: I think if you're getting more than point two or 109 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 3: point three off your loan, it's feasible because there's about. 110 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: Eight hundred dollars to one thousand dollars depending on lender in. 111 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 3: Exit costs and new costs associated with changing banks, and 112 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 3: also obviously time an effort. But anything less than that, 113 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 3: it doesn't really make a lot of sense to refinance any. 114 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: More than that, then, yes, definitely you can save. 115 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 3: I think Money magazine brought out a refinanced table or 116 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 3: a thousand clients that they that they looked into, and 117 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 3: I think the average saving was I think between seven 118 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 3: and nine thousand dollars for owly occupied or refinances annually 119 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 3: per property. So there's definitely some good deals to be 120 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 3: had now, which is why we're seeing such a big 121 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 3: increasing clients look good to refinance. 122 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 4: Right. 123 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: Okay, but before we talk about when you're prepared to 124 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: move banks, one other thing I want to ask you 125 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: is when you guys go in to renegotiate with the 126 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: bank and you know the language of the banks, which 127 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: I think is what's so important that most investors just 128 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: don't have either. Otherwise you can shave my costs of 129 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: my mortgage down Apart from the negotiation on the rate itself. 130 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: Well not really. 131 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 3: Some banks might waive at your fees and stuff like that, 132 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 3: but normally in those negotiations are made upfront. Outside of 133 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 3: that I think a better question we see a lot 134 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 3: of investors coming to us, is you know, interestrated to 135 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 3: bioproduct definding a lender that suits their needs and objectives. 136 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: Especially when you comes to investment debt. 137 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 3: How how a bank will assess your existing debt versus 138 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 3: new debt will determine how much you can borrow. A 139 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 3: lot of second tier lenders assess existing debt at a 140 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 3: much lower assessment rate, which means you can borrow a 141 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 3: lot more. So we're definitely saying, look, I guess j 142 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 3: if you ask me what my lender stack look like 143 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,679 Speaker 3: when I started breaking ten years ago to now. 144 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 2: It's much more diversified. 145 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 3: Let people aren't, as you know, don't care as much 146 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 3: around going to just the big banks. We're seeing a 147 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 3: huge increase in second tier and non bank lending options 148 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 3: that loyal. 149 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 4: They are all guaranteed bank. If it's a if it's a. 150 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're all safe, they're all the same, they're 151 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 3: all with the same banking and what they're obviously you 152 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 3: know a bit of convenience about having a bigger bank 153 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 3: and whatnot. But a person I can't remember last time 154 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 3: I went to the branch. Maybe I lost my debit card, 155 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 3: but it's not as common these days, which is why 156 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: you're seeing all these brands closing and everyone moving online. 157 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: And the investors or the mortgage shoulders form mortgage sholders, 158 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: they too are much more winning. 159 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 4: Are they to rule outside the Big four? 160 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 3: Definitely, because I think when you're an investor, the opportunity 161 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: cost loss is far bigger than an interest rate change. 162 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is, if you're able 163 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 3: to get to the market sooner, ride that wave up 164 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: from a capital growth perspective, and you're paying an extra 165 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 3: twenty basis points, it's a drop in the ocean compared 166 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: to the amount of money you'd made on on knowing 167 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 3: that property. So I think investors especially are much more 168 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 3: open to the structure of a loan and the strategy 169 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 3: longed as opposed to the interest rate. Obviously, you want 170 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: the laws interest rate, but that is always a byproduct 171 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 3: defining a lender that since your needs and objectives, rather 172 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 3: than finding a lender that is offering a hook rate 173 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 3: or a honeymoon rate or something attractive upfront, but maybe 174 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 3: in the back end, their assessment rates are much higher 175 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 3: or their policies are much stricter, meaning you can't borrow 176 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 3: anywhere near what you'd like. 177 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 4: Oh, yes, I see. Now tell me. So let's say, 178 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 4: am I in a more powerful position? 179 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: Then when I go into the bank and I say 180 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: I'm what I'm immediately saying, I want to I'm looking around, 181 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: I'm prepared to leave you bank banker to go somewhere ast. 182 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: Am I immediately in a more powerful position? Then if 183 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: I'm serious about that? 184 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 2: Look, I think there's ways of being serious. 185 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 3: If if the broker has done their research and is 186 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 3: going back to the bank with competitor analysis around what 187 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 3: else is available to their clients, that tells me that 188 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 3: they're serious and they're genuinely looking at other options. 189 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: If you're just saying, look, that's not far from you 190 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: can see, I'm a really bad negotiator. 191 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 3: I need you, which is which is why I've got 192 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: retention teams, right, So you know at some point you're 193 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 3: going to end up in that retention team, and then 194 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 3: that's their job to kind of retain you off the 195 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 3: back of understanding how seriously while that you believe. 196 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 4: What scares them, what makes them worry? Oh, this is 197 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 4: going to go. 198 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 3: I guess I know where this question is probably going 199 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 3: is would you put a discharge in to kind of. 200 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: Make them feel like you're going to leave. 201 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 3: Definitely, putting a discharge in you're going to get a 202 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 3: caught from someone at the bank. 203 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: There are certainly. 204 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 3: Lenders who would look at a discharge requests more seriously 205 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 3: than others, but each bank has a very different process 206 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 3: of how that they go through that discharge process. 207 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: So one of our regular guests, Weams, believes they're very 208 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: powerful that if you request a discharge authority get action. 209 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 4: Is he on the money? 210 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 3: Look, there's definitely lenders that would see that, but normally 211 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 3: from the hundreds and hundreds of reprices we would do 212 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 3: a week, rarely not able to get the same results 213 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 3: as long as you structure it and present it properly. Today, 214 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 3: if I didn't do the work up front right then yes, 215 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 3: it would same results. 216 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: But also there's a time cost. 217 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 3: Their James in going and filling out his charge and 218 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 3: going to that effort where you could just do it 219 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 3: up front with your broker anyway. 220 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: Okay, so this is a power of information, very interesting. 221 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: All right, we'll come back in a moment, folks. I 222 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: want Christian to tell us about the something of the 223 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: myth shall we say, around the best rates, the advertised 224 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: rate on the window is not always the cheapest. That's 225 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 1: what'th thinking about. Back in a moment. Hello, Welcome back 226 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby talking 227 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: to Christian Stevens the first time on the show. We 228 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: do have been in communication. Of course, Christian I quite 229 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: a bit in the work I do, but we haven't 230 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: had him on the show before. 231 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 4: Nice to have him on. He is a top mortgage. 232 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: Broker and he is going to tell us in this 233 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: segment about why the lowest advertise rate isn't always the cheapest. 234 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: I would have thought I would go on to my 235 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: comparison site, I would see the lowest raets and I 236 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: would really hang onto that pretty tightly. Yeah, what am 237 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: I missing? 238 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 2: Interest rate? 239 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 3: The byproduct of finding a lender suits your needs and objectives. 240 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 3: Often if you go on like Comparisonite, like Finder or equivalent, 241 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 3: definitely see some lenders there offering ridiculously low interest rates. 242 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 3: But what you don't see is in the background there 243 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 3: the way that they assess your debt. 244 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 2: So often the lowest interest. 245 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 3: Rates or those lenders non bank lenders that are offering 246 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 3: rates that look almost too good to be true. 247 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: Their policies are. 248 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 3: Very restrictive, so they only want very low, low intervalue 249 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 3: ratio deals that are very which exactly is in a 250 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 3: large portion of the population, right so, and also the 251 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 3: other way they assess your debt will be a lot strictest, 252 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 3: so nowhere near as much as you'd like. And there's 253 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 3: definitely a segment of the market that would suit. But 254 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 3: for most people, especially proper developers investor sorry, who are 255 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 3: looking to grow a portfolio that is going to be restrictive. 256 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 3: Do you actually being able to achieve that? And you 257 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 3: can still get very sharp, very competitive interest rates by 258 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 3: going to dozens and dozens of first, second, and thirty 259 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 3: lenders that offer rates that are pretty sharp and still 260 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 3: get you the result that you need on the back 261 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 3: end as well. 262 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: So we were talking in the first segment about that 263 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: there might be ways beyond just the rate that you 264 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: can get a better deal than the headline rate. And 265 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: the headline rate, as you say, you've used the phrase 266 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: more than once already on the show. They think that 267 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: it's the byproduct as such, So tell me you say 268 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: brokes can save investors money beyond the headline rates. Where 269 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: are those areas that you can sive? That's what I'm 270 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,239 Speaker 1: interested in. Are there fees hidden costs? 271 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: I think it's a bigger question, James. So when you 272 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: want to think of a property investor, it's more around 273 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 2: how do you structure a deal? How do you get 274 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: me from A to B. 275 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 3: As quick as possible, chieap as possible. And that definitely 276 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 3: comes down to structuring debt. That comes down to interest 277 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,359 Speaker 3: only terms as opposed to principal interests, utilizing of office accounts. 278 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 3: But it's more around how do you borrow efficiently? 279 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: You know, there's ways, not gainer systems. 280 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 3: Probably the wrong words to use, but lenders have different 281 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 3: ways and they access assess sorry your existing debt versus 282 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 3: your new debt. So say you know one of the 283 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: bigger banks, they will assess your existing debt at three 284 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 3: percent and your new debt at three percent. Some of 285 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 3: the second and thirty lenders will assess your existing debt 286 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 3: at one percent or one a half percent, which means 287 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 3: you can borrow a lot more on the front. So 288 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 3: under you're broker having deep understanding of how assessment rates work, 289 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 3: what policies different lenders are providing, will allow you to 290 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 3: grow a property portfolio a lot faster and more efficiently. 291 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 3: And I think as a property investor, being able to 292 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 3: capitalize quickly on opportunities is really important. 293 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: So there's considerable veryation is there on these assessment rates 294 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: and there yeah, because they only have to report to 295 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: Apple their averages. 296 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 5: Is that it same clients, same income, same deal, and 297 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 5: we're talking about one hundred of thousands, is what millions 298 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 5: of dollars difference in borrowing capacity depending on their levels, 299 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 5: But definitely the two biggest movers of borrowing capacities your 300 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 5: non based income, so the way that a bank will 301 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 5: assess you know, over time or bonuses or shares, and 302 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 5: your existence as well, so. 303 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 2: You can get a massive discrepancy between. 304 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 3: Lenders and a good broker enables you to capitalize us 305 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 3: that on those opportunities and kind of show you how 306 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 3: to work your way through all the different lender policy 307 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 3: because if we're talking about one hundred lenders thousands of 308 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 3: different policies, it's a mindfiit, right, there's a lot of 309 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 3: information there. 310 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: And you say about the non base income, it's interesting 311 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: we've had over the year's lots of complaints from listeners 312 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: about that. The older investors often who don't have a salary, 313 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: can hit a real brick wall in trying to get mortgage, 314 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: even if they're considerable wealth and income. 315 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 3: Definitely not having if you're only income is coming from 316 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 3: rental income. Yes, it's hard, right because the way the 317 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 3: bank says that if that intenant you can't find a 318 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 3: tenant or something happens, there's no real buffer there. 319 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: So cliss I that it comes down to what's called 320 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: an exit strategy James. 321 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 3: So as long as they've got you know, a low 322 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 3: loan to value ratio, a lot of money in a 323 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 3: super maybe some diversification and other assets, and you can 324 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 3: prove to the bank that look worst case scenario as 325 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: a four back strategy. Here you can normally get around 326 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 3: issues like that, but yeah, it definitely gets harder for 327 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 3: professional investors who own the income is rental income because 328 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 3: they don't have a fall back there, or they. 329 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: Just have investment income. And how do you get just briefly, like, 330 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: how do you get around that? The person says, well, 331 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, my forum says you must have a salary. 332 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: You don't have a salary, and you say, yes, but 333 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: I'm earning quite a big income per animate just isn't 334 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: a suny is that? 335 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 4: How do you get around that? 336 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: I would do a couple of things. 337 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 3: One is you look at your super balances and other 338 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 3: assets to see what that will look like in terms 339 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 3: of a. 340 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 2: Timeframe of someone's life. 341 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 3: If they're at sixty or fifty five years old, you know, 342 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 3: what does their retirement agy will look like? 343 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 2: And then when are they going to start drawing a pension? 344 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: And what to sell down straight And they might have 345 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 3: you know, one, two, three, four, five, ten investment properties. 346 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: I would presume that retirement would mean that they'd sell 347 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 3: a couple of those properties. So what you do is 348 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 3: a good broker, is you put together a one page 349 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 3: a strategy around what that exit, what that downsize is 350 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 3: actually going to look like, and as long as it 351 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 3: all makes sense. At the end of the day, banks 352 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 3: buses and they're more than happy to learn money, but 353 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 3: they also don't want to lend money to someone who 354 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 3: they think there's going to be an issue. 355 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 2: But you can normally get around them. 356 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: So there will they will they will think, yeah, beyond 357 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: the district. 358 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 3: And there's also you know, there's also some lenders that 359 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 3: look at you know, older clients more favorably. 360 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: There's a year interest only loans and some unique niche 361 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: products that have come to market recently. 362 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 3: Because you look at the population, right, James, it's pretty aging, 363 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 3: and you know there needs to be an understanding that 364 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 3: there are going to be products that are going to 365 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 3: suit different segments of the market and rational investors over there. 366 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 3: To fifty five is definitely one of them. 367 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 4: Right. 368 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: Okay, just one last thing on that before we go 369 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: to questions. Did you I am varying from what you 370 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: say that the bank's actually the interest only was something 371 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: that they were willing to give older investors over younger ones. 372 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: It's not favorable in terms of age. 373 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 3: What I'm saying is that there's definitely been an increase 374 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 3: in interest only products coming to market for professional investors. 375 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 2: Okay, there without a doubt. 376 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 3: Right, So because you know you typically had the two, 377 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: ye three, four, five year interest only facilities and then 378 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,479 Speaker 3: having to refinance five years, it doesn't make a lot 379 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 3: of sense for. 380 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 2: Isn't There's some products out there that have extended interest 381 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: only terms for this exact scenario. 382 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: So they're bringing in ones now that have decade long 383 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: interest only and you know that before you start. 384 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, very interesting. All right, look, well take a 385 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 4: short break books. 386 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: I think we really picked up a few pieces of 387 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: very valuable information. 388 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 4: There a couple of things that I might just recap. 389 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: One of the negot we negotiate with your own bank, 390 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: that is entirely feasible. As Christian says, keep you know, 391 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: it's a matter of presenting accurate information to them of 392 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: the comparisons outside. The discharge authority is always there, of 393 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: course as a. 394 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 4: Weapon as such. 395 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: That is that you are you are seeking to leave 396 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: the bank, and you will need a mortgage discharge authority, 397 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: and that is something the attention teams. There are words 398 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: they do not like to hear. Also interesting on the 399 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: professional or at least the investment property side. For the 400 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: property investor, there has always been a strong theory that 401 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,479 Speaker 1: why would you pay principal ever as an investor and 402 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: you could be in interest only And the think about 403 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: interest only is up to now Christian it was sort 404 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: of in and out of fashion, it seems to me 405 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: at the banks, depending on what was going on. But 406 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: interesting to hear there is a structural long term interest 407 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: only deals out there for the right investor. Okay, very good, 408 00:18:50,400 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: gouts some great questions back in a moment. Hello, welcome 409 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: back to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. 410 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 4: I'm James Kirkby. 411 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: I'm talking to Christian Stevens of the Flint Group. He 412 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: is a mortgage broker. 413 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 4: Kelly has a question you've mentioned. 414 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: I kept this question for you, Christian. Kelly says you've 415 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: mentioned more than once on the show. The most important 416 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: words in getting a better deal on your mortgage something 417 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: to do with the mortgage discharge. Can you explain it please, Yes, 418 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: I can, Kelly. It probably goes back to a piece 419 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: I wrote some times ago about the magic words, the 420 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: magic words forgetting a mortgage, which were at the time. Christian, 421 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: I am considering signing a discharge authority. 422 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 4: So you you don't deny that it works. You're you 423 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 4: just say, actually, you might even have to go that far, 424 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 4: give work and do it. 425 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 3: You can get the same outcom without doing that certain Yeah, 426 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 3: it's an extreme response to what can definitely be done 427 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 3: while you broke up without the need to go and 428 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 3: go and do that. And the banks might want to say, 429 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 3: you know, thousands of this charge requests going in because 430 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 3: you can get the same result easily. 431 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: Okay, yes, and you did actually cover that in the 432 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: first segment. All right, now, Alex, I have seen many articles, 433 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: says Alex, recently from less reputable publications, writing about a 434 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: proposed spare bedroom tax. Could you talk about the proposal, 435 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: the likelihood of it being implemented or is it just 436 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: scare bongering? Okay, none of this is advice, is always information, 437 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: and Alex, look, it's nothing to do with reputable or 438 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: not being reputable. 439 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 4: There is a cautality of all people. 440 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: Cautality being the former Cologic group, and we often have 441 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: Eliza Owens and Tim Lawless either both economists from that group, 442 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: on the show, and they in their proposal to the 443 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: Economic Summit, their submission had a spare bedroom taxes, an 444 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: idea of basically a stick if you like to get 445 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: people bring around their big family homes in the suburbs 446 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: to downsize. 447 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 4: As an idea. It all it got was all I saw. 448 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 4: It got no support whatsoever. All I saw was critician 449 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 4: and complained what do you think of a Christian? The No. 450 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 2: Thirty first thing? I know Eliza and Tim well and 451 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: have nothing but respect for him. But that is a 452 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: that is almost impossible to police. 453 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 3: Really, I think taxing people on having a spare bedroom 454 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 3: when they're already paying rates and whatnot seems quite unfair. Interestingly, 455 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 3: if I put some personal context to your question. This morning, 456 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 3: almost morning to go for a walk with my wife, 457 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 3: there are three properties on our walk that we go 458 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 3: to that are empty, and they've been empty for several years. 459 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 3: That's where I think there needs to be some action. 460 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 3: If someone has an empty property, then you know you 461 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 3: should be taxed high on the on that property. I 462 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 3: think taxing people for the spare bedroom is absurd, but 463 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 3: there should definitely be some more incentives to downsize. I 464 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 3: think you can get threehundred thousand and or six one 465 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 3: thousands of a couple, do you super tax free when you downsized. 466 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 2: There's not enough incentive to downsize. That's the problem, right. 467 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 3: And if you think of the population, thirty percent have 468 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 3: a mortgage or thirty three percent, thirty percent rant, and 469 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 3: thirty percent a debt free. 470 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 2: We're going to see a huge. 471 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 3: Transfer of wealth over the next five to ten years. 472 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 3: There's not enough incentive to downsize, and I think there 473 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 3: needs to be a lot more thought as to how 474 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 3: to make that attractive for old restrains. 475 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 2: So they want to do that. But IFITELY think tax 476 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 2: on spare bedrooms is not the answer. 477 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 4: No, I think it's going to get up. 478 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: Shane Oliver, another regular guest on the show, Chief Economy 479 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: the Day and P, said that the guiding principle of 480 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: getting people to as you say, in incentivizing people to 481 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: get out of their big houses, for perhaps there is 482 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: spare bedrooms, our bedrooms that are not used much and downsize, 483 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: is to suspend. 484 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 4: One idea would be suspend stamp. 485 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: Duty for downsizers in that area, or certainly incentives at 486 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: least to get people. 487 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 4: I don't think the stick will work. 488 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: And what would you have, as you say, police, would 489 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: you have someone sort of helicopter over the suburbs, you know, 490 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: unmanageable and not particularly feasible. I think you're right all right, 491 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: terrific and really good to have you on the show. 492 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Christian on a very acute observations 493 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: from someone who I had a guest if he was 494 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: on the show, would be quite accurate and concise in 495 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: his answers because he is a busy man. All right, 496 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Christian of the Flinch group. We'll 497 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: talk again for having me and keep the emails rolling. 498 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: Folks the money puzzle at the Australian dot com dot au. 499 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 4: Talk to you soon.