1 00:00:03,990 --> 00:00:06,540 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:07,290 --> 00:00:10,679 Sean Aylmer: A slew of worrying economic data out of China has 3 00:00:10,679 --> 00:00:15,360 Sean Aylmer: hit global markets recently, equities, bonds, currencies in particular. I 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,029 Sean Aylmer: wanted to get an insight today into investing in Chinese 5 00:00:18,210 --> 00:00:21,840 Sean Aylmer: equities, including companies we're familiar with here in Australia. I 6 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,020 Sean Aylmer: want to know what makes these companies interesting to investors 7 00:00:25,170 --> 00:00:28,020 Sean Aylmer: and also how they view the economic and geopolitical risk 8 00:00:28,020 --> 00:00:30,690 Sean Aylmer: when it comes to China. This information is general in 9 00:00:30,690 --> 00:00:33,779 Sean Aylmer: nature and you should seek professional advice before making any 10 00:00:33,780 --> 00:00:38,760 Sean Aylmer: investment decisions. Rob Talevski is the CEO of Webull Australia. 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,050 Sean Aylmer: Rob, welcome to Fear & Greed. 12 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:41,370 Rob Talevski: Thanks, Sean. Thanks for having me. 13 00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:44,098 Sean Aylmer: So Rob, just to make it clear here, we're talking 14 00:00:44,098 --> 00:00:47,790 Sean Aylmer: about investing in Chinese equities, which is very different from 15 00:00:47,790 --> 00:00:51,929 Sean Aylmer: investing in BHP, which obviously its earnings rely a lot 16 00:00:51,929 --> 00:00:56,370 Sean Aylmer: on Chinese demand and things like that. Why as an 17 00:00:56,370 --> 00:01:00,780 Sean Aylmer: investor, should I take the risk of investing directly into 18 00:01:00,780 --> 00:01:04,350 Sean Aylmer: Chinese equities rather than relying on my BHPs of the world? 19 00:01:05,099 --> 00:01:07,799 Rob Talevski: It's a good question. I mean, I think as retail 20 00:01:07,799 --> 00:01:10,769 Rob Talevski: clients or retail investors we're often told to think invest 21 00:01:10,770 --> 00:01:14,100 Rob Talevski: locally, invest at home in the likes of BHP or maybe 22 00:01:14,100 --> 00:01:16,890 Rob Talevski: a bit further abroad to the US market. But I 23 00:01:16,890 --> 00:01:18,720 Rob Talevski: think if we look at the world that way, it's 24 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,140 Rob Talevski: a pretty narrow world to invest in and China is 25 00:01:22,349 --> 00:01:24,809 Rob Talevski: the second- largest economy in the world. So I think 26 00:01:24,809 --> 00:01:26,429 Rob Talevski: it'd be remiss of us not to see that there 27 00:01:26,429 --> 00:01:29,909 Rob Talevski: are opportunities there. And I think every day we're seeing 28 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,300 Rob Talevski: some great news stories coming out of China in terms 29 00:01:33,300 --> 00:01:35,460 Rob Talevski: of companies and the technology they're delivering. 30 00:01:36,690 --> 00:01:39,360 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So let's talk about risk because that is what 31 00:01:39,389 --> 00:01:43,770 Sean Aylmer: investing's all about. Great deal of uncertainty over China's economic 32 00:01:43,799 --> 00:01:46,709 Sean Aylmer: outlook at the moment. How do you frame that in 33 00:01:46,709 --> 00:01:49,380 Sean Aylmer: your mind when you're thinking about investing in China? 34 00:01:50,790 --> 00:01:54,270 Rob Talevski: Yeah, I mean, look, like all economies, we have our ups and 35 00:01:54,270 --> 00:01:57,599 Rob Talevski: downs and China is no different and obviously Western media 36 00:01:57,599 --> 00:02:00,750 Rob Talevski: may also drill into that a bit further than what 37 00:02:00,750 --> 00:02:04,469 Rob Talevski: we would in Australia or America. But I think the 38 00:02:04,469 --> 00:02:06,750 Rob Talevski: best way to approach China investment in my mind and 39 00:02:06,750 --> 00:02:08,550 Rob Talevski: the way I look at it is I look to look for 40 00:02:08,550 --> 00:02:12,450 Rob Talevski: individual stories. So I'm not investing in the index as 41 00:02:12,450 --> 00:02:14,519 Rob Talevski: a whole or in the listed space as a whole, 42 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,300 Rob Talevski: but I'm looking for actual companies that I know can 43 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:20,580 Rob Talevski: resonate with me and then I can see that that 44 00:02:20,580 --> 00:02:21,840 Rob Talevski: has a good time horizon on them. 45 00:02:22,650 --> 00:02:24,360 Sean Aylmer: I want to get into some of those and we'll do 46 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,480 Sean Aylmer: that in a moment, the specific companies. What about the 47 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,700 Sean Aylmer: property sector just before we do that, because it is 48 00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:32,190 Sean Aylmer: such a big part of the Chinese economy and massive 49 00:02:32,190 --> 00:02:35,040 Sean Aylmer: flow on effects, and it seems like for years it's 50 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:36,750 Sean Aylmer: only probably been about 18 months or two years, we've 51 00:02:36,750 --> 00:02:39,029 Sean Aylmer: been reading about the property sector. What's your take on 52 00:02:39,030 --> 00:02:40,439 Sean Aylmer: the Chinese property sector? 53 00:02:41,549 --> 00:02:44,639 Rob Talevski: Yeah, look, absolutely that is an area for concern and 54 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,590 Rob Talevski: you're right, it has been for a number of years 55 00:02:46,590 --> 00:02:49,500 Rob Talevski: now has been spoken of and I think as investors 56 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:53,370 Rob Talevski: you should be cautious. Absolutely. We know that an index 57 00:02:53,370 --> 00:02:56,429 Rob Talevski: as a whole can be impacted through contagion effect, right? 58 00:02:56,429 --> 00:02:58,319 Rob Talevski: So even though you may be looking at stocks that 59 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,530 Rob Talevski: aren't related to property, companies that are listed can be 60 00:03:01,530 --> 00:03:05,190 Rob Talevski: impacted through that contagion effect. So absolutely investors should be 61 00:03:05,190 --> 00:03:07,860 Rob Talevski: wary. There is a crisis, obviously there's a question of 62 00:03:07,860 --> 00:03:10,740 Rob Talevski: whether or not the government there locally will bail out 63 00:03:10,740 --> 00:03:17,460 Rob Talevski: those companies in need. But within those moments of doubt 64 00:03:17,669 --> 00:03:20,160 Rob Talevski: and panic selling, that's probably where you find the true 65 00:03:20,220 --> 00:03:23,100 Rob Talevski: opportunities. And I think we've seen that repeatedly. Knock on 66 00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:27,300 Rob Talevski: effects from say the GFC to COVID recently. So there's 67 00:03:27,300 --> 00:03:30,240 Rob Talevski: always some opportunities, as we call diamonds in the rough 68 00:03:30,270 --> 00:03:31,589 Rob Talevski: in those circumstances. 69 00:03:32,008 --> 00:03:33,780 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Rob, we'll be back in a minute. 70 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,500 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Rob Talevski, CEO of Webull 71 00:03:43,500 --> 00:03:47,580 Sean Aylmer: Australia. Okay, so let's talk about some companies. BYD gets 72 00:03:47,580 --> 00:03:50,190 Sean Aylmer: a lot of mentions in Australia now, I think it's the second- 73 00:03:50,190 --> 00:03:53,969 Sean Aylmer: largest electric vehicle manufacturer in Australia, or certainly in terms 74 00:03:53,969 --> 00:03:57,090 Sean Aylmer: of sales, largest in China, massive company. Tell me about 75 00:03:57,150 --> 00:03:59,460 Sean Aylmer: BYD. Build... Was it build your dreams? Is that it? 76 00:03:59,790 --> 00:04:03,510 Rob Talevski: Yeah, exactly. Build Your Dreams. I think that resonates nicely. Yeah, 77 00:04:03,510 --> 00:04:06,150 Rob Talevski: it's an interesting one. Look, just a bit of personal background. 78 00:04:06,150 --> 00:04:09,960 Rob Talevski: I mean, I'm actually a car enthusiast, right? And so it sort 79 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:10,500 Rob Talevski: of hit home. 80 00:04:10,830 --> 00:04:12,390 Sean Aylmer: Oh dear, go on Rob. 81 00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:16,320 Rob Talevski: Yeah, well look, I was recently had the privilege of 82 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,050 Rob Talevski: traveling to China in March this year, and one of 83 00:04:19,050 --> 00:04:21,690 Rob Talevski: the things that I saw immediately was just the level 84 00:04:21,690 --> 00:04:25,200 Rob Talevski: of electrification of their transport in China, whether it was 85 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,859 Rob Talevski: a bicycle or a scooter to cars, to heavy vehicles 86 00:04:28,859 --> 00:04:32,520 Rob Talevski: like buses. In fact, it was spot the traditional combustion 87 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,010 Rob Talevski: engine was the game and rarely could I spot one. 88 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,250 Rob Talevski: So the level of take up there is massive, and 89 00:04:38,250 --> 00:04:40,740 Rob Talevski: we're talking one of the largest populations in the world 90 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,409 Rob Talevski: who are well ahead of say locally at home in 91 00:04:43,410 --> 00:04:46,589 Rob Talevski: Australia where electric vehicles are still a novelty. But what 92 00:04:46,589 --> 00:04:49,650 Rob Talevski: I did see was you would see Tesla, which we 93 00:04:49,650 --> 00:04:52,800 Rob Talevski: all know, and then you would see BYD, and in fact 94 00:04:53,070 --> 00:04:56,520 Rob Talevski: BYD would outstrip Tesla and they have so in local 95 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,010 Rob Talevski: sales there for the last two years running. It's an 96 00:04:59,010 --> 00:05:02,520 Rob Talevski: interesting company. It's not just an EV manufacturer though, they 97 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,000 Rob Talevski: do manufacture traditional combustion engines and by that virtue, if 98 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,120 Rob Talevski: you add all that up, they actually are produced twice 99 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,630 Rob Talevski: as many vehicles as Tesla actually does. But they are 100 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,489 Rob Talevski: slightly behind Tesla on electric vehicle production, but gaining rapidly. 101 00:05:17,940 --> 00:05:20,938 Rob Talevski: They've also been clever enough to integrate themselves within the 102 00:05:20,940 --> 00:05:24,089 Rob Talevski: supply chain and they actually create their own batteries for 103 00:05:24,089 --> 00:05:28,650 Rob Talevski: these vehicles, which Tesla doesn't. And in fact, ironically Tesla 104 00:05:28,650 --> 00:05:32,969 Rob Talevski: recently just signed a battery supply agreement with BYD. So 105 00:05:33,210 --> 00:05:37,080 Rob Talevski: look, they're really primed for their global ascent. They're opening 106 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:42,600 Rob Talevski: factories globally from Europe to Southeast Asia to Southern America, 107 00:05:42,870 --> 00:05:46,770 Rob Talevski: so they are truly expanding globally. But what I found 108 00:05:46,770 --> 00:05:49,320 Rob Talevski: interesting was, look, the vehicles were great, they looked great. 109 00:05:49,710 --> 00:05:53,789 Rob Talevski: They're your typical transport vehicles, well opted out, but when 110 00:05:53,790 --> 00:05:56,428 Rob Talevski: I came back to Sydney, I started noticing that we 111 00:05:56,428 --> 00:05:59,700 Rob Talevski: actually did have BYD vehicles here and in fact they're 112 00:06:00,450 --> 00:06:03,000 Rob Talevski: adding to their product class. Obviously they only launched with 113 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,550 Rob Talevski: one or two vehicles, now they've got a whole list 114 00:06:05,550 --> 00:06:08,940 Rob Talevski: of them ready to go and even they've got a 115 00:06:08,940 --> 00:06:11,010 Rob Talevski: classic Australian car as a ute, which they will be 116 00:06:11,010 --> 00:06:14,340 Rob Talevski: launching soon. So that should hopefully resonate with local buyers. 117 00:06:14,759 --> 00:06:18,720 Rob Talevski: But just the sheer scale of that business, how quickly 118 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,599 Rob Talevski: they've grown and just how integrated they have been and 119 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,270 Rob Talevski: the technology that they've done. I mean, one thing that 120 00:06:24,270 --> 00:06:26,818 Rob Talevski: we know in China is their large population has everyday 121 00:06:26,820 --> 00:06:30,839 Rob Talevski: needs, and BYD was able to solve a lot of 122 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,870 Rob Talevski: those needs and to do it an environmentally friendly way. 123 00:06:33,870 --> 00:06:36,058 Rob Talevski: I think we always have a view that China is 124 00:06:36,059 --> 00:06:38,640 Rob Talevski: a large polluter, but when you see the level of 125 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,460 Rob Talevski: electric vehicle take up, it's anything but, and something for 126 00:06:41,460 --> 00:06:43,200 Rob Talevski: us to be envious here in Australia in terms of 127 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,180 Rob Talevski: achieving our own climate targets. 128 00:06:45,900 --> 00:06:48,058 Sean Aylmer: So let's move sectors. Alibaba, we've heard about that for 129 00:06:48,059 --> 00:06:50,670 Sean Aylmer: many years and it's a previous owner. I'm not sure 130 00:06:50,670 --> 00:06:52,289 Sean Aylmer: that he still owns it or not, but Alibaba is 131 00:06:52,289 --> 00:06:55,200 Sean Aylmer: a well- known company. What do you think of that? 132 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,420 Sean Aylmer: Of course it's primarily e- commerce, but it's kind of 133 00:06:57,420 --> 00:06:58,140 Sean Aylmer: a lot more than that. 134 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:03,150 Rob Talevski: Yeah, I mean look, I originally thought that Alibaba was very much e-commerce, 135 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,070 Rob Talevski: I probably was a little bit naive to the fact, 136 00:07:05,070 --> 00:07:07,379 Rob Talevski: but when I was in China, I actually saw the 137 00:07:07,380 --> 00:07:10,529 Rob Talevski: level of integration that they have within their economy. So 138 00:07:11,070 --> 00:07:14,490 Rob Talevski: we talk about here about new sort of payment gateway 139 00:07:14,490 --> 00:07:18,150 Rob Talevski: starters coming here in Australia, challenging the banks. Well in China, 140 00:07:18,150 --> 00:07:23,430 Rob Talevski: their banking system is quite antiquated across its very vast regions. 141 00:07:24,090 --> 00:07:26,849 Rob Talevski: These companies, especially Alibaba, have been very clever and they've 142 00:07:26,849 --> 00:07:30,780 Rob Talevski: introduced payment services a decade ago, so they're well ahead 143 00:07:30,780 --> 00:07:33,570 Rob Talevski: of the curve that we're seeing in western countries at 144 00:07:33,570 --> 00:07:36,570 Rob Talevski: the moment, and particularly here in Australia. So Alibaba does 145 00:07:36,570 --> 00:07:42,600 Rob Talevski: everything from being an e-commerce platform to providing banking gateways 146 00:07:42,870 --> 00:07:45,509 Rob Talevski: to even just allowing people to connect and communicate. It's 147 00:07:46,170 --> 00:07:49,170 Rob Talevski: a great product, it's a great company and one that 148 00:07:49,170 --> 00:07:51,690 Rob Talevski: the everyday Chinese national is using. 149 00:07:52,410 --> 00:07:54,210 Sean Aylmer: With Alibaba, I mean, it kind of brings up the 150 00:07:54,210 --> 00:07:58,500 Sean Aylmer: issue of sovereign risk when investing in China. How much 151 00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:03,899 Sean Aylmer: should investors be worried about that? The idea that there's 152 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:07,350 Sean Aylmer: sovereign risk in terms of the Chinese economy, but probably 153 00:08:07,379 --> 00:08:11,280 Sean Aylmer: the overlay on that is the communist party actually getting 154 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,290 Sean Aylmer: involved in markets for good or bad reasons. In terms 155 00:08:16,290 --> 00:08:18,180 Sean Aylmer: of shareholder returns, I'm talking good or bad. 156 00:08:19,380 --> 00:08:21,570 Rob Talevski: Look, I think it's something to be conscious of. I 157 00:08:21,570 --> 00:08:23,429 Rob Talevski: think it'd be remiss of us not to see that 158 00:08:23,430 --> 00:08:27,240 Rob Talevski: as part of our risk profile when we're investing directly 159 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,670 Rob Talevski: in China. But having said that though, I think we 160 00:08:29,670 --> 00:08:32,789 Rob Talevski: need to see that it is a very progressive country. 161 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,449 Rob Talevski: A lot of the thoughts or view opinions that I 162 00:08:36,450 --> 00:08:37,830 Rob Talevski: had before I got there, a lot of them were 163 00:08:37,830 --> 00:08:40,529 Rob Talevski: dispelled and to see the level of progression within their 164 00:08:41,129 --> 00:08:44,700 Rob Talevski: cities and how people are embracing technology there was wonderful, 165 00:08:44,700 --> 00:08:47,458 Rob Talevski: but look, it is something to factor. But at the 166 00:08:47,460 --> 00:08:49,830 Rob Talevski: same time, I think we also need to understand that 167 00:08:49,830 --> 00:08:53,309 Rob Talevski: China needs to be a global player. It is, and 168 00:08:53,309 --> 00:08:55,230 Rob Talevski: it wants to be, and it wants to take a 169 00:08:55,230 --> 00:08:58,919 Rob Talevski: more forward footprint in being that global partner to many 170 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,819 Rob Talevski: countries and to Australia ourselves. We have obviously good relationships 171 00:09:02,820 --> 00:09:05,910 Rob Talevski: in terms of our trade. And so when you have 172 00:09:05,910 --> 00:09:09,989 Rob Talevski: those driving factors, then I would like to feel that 173 00:09:10,230 --> 00:09:13,320 Rob Talevski: you would see that there'd be less interference by the 174 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,960 Rob Talevski: government because they want their companies to thrive globally. 175 00:09:16,799 --> 00:09:18,449 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, I mean, I remember talking to Mike Smith, who's 176 00:09:18,450 --> 00:09:21,300 Sean Aylmer: the financial review Asian correspondent. He had been based in China, 177 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:24,030 Sean Aylmer: and he was saying day to day, China's not that 178 00:09:24,030 --> 00:09:26,190 Sean Aylmer: different to Australia. I mean, people just go about their 179 00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:29,069 Sean Aylmer: lives and do what they do. And it's kind of almost, 180 00:09:29,550 --> 00:09:31,799 Sean Aylmer: for those of us who haven't been to China, it's 181 00:09:31,799 --> 00:09:34,679 Sean Aylmer: kind of this, we probably don't understand that it's as 182 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,680 Sean Aylmer: regular in a sense as the US or as Australia 183 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,500 Sean Aylmer: or as Columbia is in a day-to-day sense. 184 00:09:41,460 --> 00:09:42,990 Rob Talevski: Yeah, absolutely. I think I'm going to be a little 185 00:09:42,990 --> 00:09:45,839 Rob Talevski: bit cheeky here and say that I actually think they are 186 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:47,730 Rob Talevski: are a lot more progressive than what we are here 187 00:09:47,730 --> 00:09:51,630 Rob Talevski: in Australia in terms of our local laws. By all means, it's not what 188 00:09:51,630 --> 00:09:56,190 Rob Talevski: people... I mean honestly, Western media, maybe perhaps Hollywood always 189 00:09:56,190 --> 00:09:58,440 Rob Talevski: sort of indicate to us what China may look like 190 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,770 Rob Talevski: as a socialist country, but it's anything but that. It's 191 00:10:01,770 --> 00:10:05,910 Rob Talevski: very progressive. The people there were very welcoming and warm. 192 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:08,368 Rob Talevski: It's very westernized, to be brutally honest with you. I 193 00:10:08,370 --> 00:10:11,218 Rob Talevski: mean, the shopping centers I went to are very similar 194 00:10:11,219 --> 00:10:12,840 Rob Talevski: to the ones we have at home here in Sydney 195 00:10:13,260 --> 00:10:13,949 Rob Talevski: or in Australia. 196 00:10:13,949 --> 00:10:16,770 Sean Aylmer: They actually have like KFC and Pizza Hut and Taco 197 00:10:16,770 --> 00:10:18,360 Sean Aylmer: Bell as well, I believe. 198 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:18,510 Rob Talevski: Yes. 199 00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:22,740 Sean Aylmer: Yum China's another opportunity potentially that owns those brands. 200 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,679 Rob Talevski: Yeah, absolutely. And funny enough, there's a Starbucks on every 201 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,240 Rob Talevski: corner, so it feels like you're in New York at 202 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:31,978 Rob Talevski: times. But yeah, look, absolutely, you're right there, Sean. Yum 203 00:10:31,980 --> 00:10:34,439 Rob Talevski: China or Yum Brands as we know it in other 204 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,350 Rob Talevski: parts of the world, have a very large presence there, 205 00:10:37,590 --> 00:10:40,319 Rob Talevski: having Western names that we all know and love, like 206 00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:44,099 Rob Talevski: KFC and so forth. And so China not only is 207 00:10:44,099 --> 00:10:45,929 Rob Talevski: a tech play, and I do see it as more 208 00:10:45,929 --> 00:10:48,510 Rob Talevski: of a tech play and a manufacturing play per se, 209 00:10:48,510 --> 00:10:51,208 Rob Talevski: but there are some traditional investment opportunities that we're all 210 00:10:51,210 --> 00:10:55,080 Rob Talevski: used to. And with a population of over a billion 211 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,770 Rob Talevski: something people, I think you'd be well- placed to invest 212 00:10:58,770 --> 00:11:00,240 Rob Talevski: in companies that provide food. 213 00:11:00,809 --> 00:11:02,699 Sean Aylmer: Rob, thank you for talking to Fear & Greed. 214 00:11:03,270 --> 00:11:04,499 Rob Talevski: Thank you, Sean. Thanks for having me. 215 00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:08,429 Sean Aylmer: That was Rob Talevski, C E O of Webull Australia. This is the 216 00:11:08,429 --> 00:11:11,400 Sean Aylmer: Fear & Greed daily interview. Remember, this information is general in 217 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,220 Sean Aylmer: nature, and you should seek professional advice before making any 218 00:11:14,220 --> 00:11:17,189 Sean Aylmer: investment decisions. Join us every morning for the full episode 219 00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:20,280 Sean Aylmer: of Fear & Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean 220 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,719 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Have a great day.