1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ask Fear and Greed, where we take your 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: questions and do our very very best to answer them. 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: I'm Michael Thompson and good afternoon. Sean Aylmer. 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 2: Hello, Michael Sewan. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: We've got a great question today. It has come from 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: Duncan and it's coming via the website. So Duncan went 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: along to Fearangreed dot com dot au and sent his 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: question on through. And if you've got one, you should 9 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: do the same thing. He says, love the show, find 10 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: it a great way to keep on top of all 11 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: the business news happening in Australia and around the globe. 12 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: That's obviously not part of the question. I just wanted 13 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: to include that because it makes me feel good. But 14 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: Duncan then says, why does the government policy always seem 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: to be at loggerheads with Productivity Commission guidance? And this 16 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: one's just this has just like your eyes lit up 17 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 1: then when I said this, because this it's got some 18 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: meat to it this question does doesn't it? 19 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 2: Oh and I've got views on it too, Ah, Duncan, 20 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: thank you, thank you. I like this one. This is 21 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 2: in my wheelhouse. So let's think about productivity improving Productivity 22 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: is a good thing. It's about getting more output for 23 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 2: every unit of input. If you can do that, there's 24 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: more stuff around the place to spread around, more love 25 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 2: to give, and it's how living standards improve the way 26 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: I think about it, So, think about what you have 27 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: that your parents didn't have, the number of TVs in 28 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: your house, multiple cars, access to good hairdressers important to 29 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 2: some of us. Then think about what you have and 30 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 2: what you had growing up, and what your kids have now. 31 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 2: They have so much more than I had growing up. 32 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: Productivity that represents productivity and improves living standards, at least 33 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 2: in terms of goods and services. That's how I think 34 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: about it. Plenty involved in all that, Like technology is 35 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: a big one. That wasn't the technology when I was 36 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: a kid that there is today, And there certainly wasn't 37 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: a technology when my parents were a kid that I 38 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: had as a kid. Economies of scale matter. Trade is 39 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: really important when it comes to a missus scale, workforce skills, 40 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: management practices, competitive pressures, the economic cycle. Now, Australia's productivity 41 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: record hasn't been particularly good in recent years. We've heard 42 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 2: plenty about that. The whole idea if you improve productivity 43 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: you can help fight inflation. So that's kind of the 44 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 2: background to Duncan's question. It brings me to the Productivity Commission. Now, 45 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: interesting organization. This bit of a beast was created in 46 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,119 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, though it's a much deeper It goes 47 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 2: back to something called the Industry's Assistance Commission of nineteen 48 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: seventy four. The Productivity Commission officially is the Australian government's 49 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: independent research and advisory body on economic, social environmental issues. 50 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: So it is an advisory bottle. The government can totally 51 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: ignore it if it decides to, which comes back to 52 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: Duncan's question. It's supposed to provide independent, high quality advice, 53 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: let's hope. So it looks at all sorts of things. 54 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 2: So in the last couple of years, this is a 55 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: list of stuff. It's looked at. Philanthropy, early childhood, education 56 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: and care, order reform, Indigenous affairs policy, cares, schools, maritime, logistics, 57 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: aged care, homelessness. Okay, very very busy organization, I reckon. 58 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: It's probably produced more pages of writing than any other 59 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 2: big well than many other bigger government departments. So that 60 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: kind of leads to the question, what's the productivity Commission's 61 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: productivity Like you might say good, sometimes you wonder, Like 62 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: in March this year it put out its five year 63 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 2: Productivity inquiry. Jim Chalmers called it a contribution to the 64 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: national debate about lifting Australia's productivity performance. A thousand pages long, 65 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 2: nine volumes. Who read it? Did you? I didn't. I 66 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: don't think many people actually read it. 67 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: No. No, it's not the kind of thing that you 68 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: just print, would you No, Like you'd want to check 69 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: that before you send it to your printer. 70 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: Well, if you go to the website you can order 71 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 2: a printed copy. 72 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: Really, m hmm, you can. That sounds like the kind 73 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: of thing you do to an enemy. 74 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly. So this brings us back to Duncan's question, 75 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: which is essentially does the government listen and act on 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: what the Productivity Commission says? Well, the Productivity Commission itself says, 77 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: in practice, more recommendations and we're talking about thousands over 78 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: the years have been accepted than rejected. This is what 79 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 2: the PC says itself. And even if they're not accepted, 80 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: the Productivity Commission reckons they just become part of the debate. 81 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 2: So that's kind of the best answer I can give. 82 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 2: There are a few other hints that suggest it is 83 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: worth it. It comes about thirty eight million dollars a year. 84 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: The Productivity Commission its annual report lists a bunch of 85 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: stats about its performance in the twenty twenty three financial years. 86 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: Seventy federal members and senators refer to at least forty 87 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: two different Commission reports or inquiries, or to the Commission's 88 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: role in the policy process. The Commission rated on average 89 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 2: four hundred and eighty media mentions a month. Blah blah 90 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 2: blah plenty there. I've got to say my experience, which 91 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: is limited, is that the Productivity Commission is very well meaning, 92 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 2: full of very smart people, but the recommendations aren't always 93 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: that practical. Many of the people doing the reports for 94 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: academics or bureaucrats, I'm not sure many of them have 95 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 2: actually run a business, and I think that's the main 96 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: criticism of the Productivity Commission. So I suppose the answer 97 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: Government policy isn't always at logalheads with the PC. According 98 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 2: to the Productivity Commission itself, in fact, more than half 99 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 2: recommendations have been accepted. Just the nature of what it 100 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: does means it puts an argument out there and people debated. 101 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: So I suppose that is well worth it. There's a 102 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 2: lot of paper wasted. Well, no, I shouldn't say that. 103 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: There's a lot of words written, and I wonder how 104 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: many people read them. 105 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: It does feel like it's an important body when you 106 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: think about if you think of it as an ideas factory, I. 107 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: Like that it's an ideas That's exactly what it is. 108 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 2: It's an ideas factory. 109 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's an independent ideas factory. So it means 110 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: in some cases, as I the ideas don't actually necessarily 111 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: need to be good, but at least they are there 112 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: for people to consider, for people to debate, because it's 113 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: better than just kind of doing the same thing we've 114 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: always done. Yeah. 115 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 2: I mean, I've tried to read Productivity Commission reports. They're 116 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 2: a slog Yeah. 117 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: I mean I say this. I'm full of praise for 118 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: the Productivity Commission. I've never attempted to read to read 119 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: one of their reports. I'm always happy to outsource that 120 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: to you as the as the veteran journalist on the 121 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: Picture and Green team. I did laugh when you said 122 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: that your experience was limited. 123 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: At least in reading Productivity Commission reports. It's a bit limited. 124 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry I didn't read to pull you up 125 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: on that one. Then goodness, what a question, what an answer? 126 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: I reckon you've enjoyed diving deep into Productivity Commission. 127 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: Because it was such it like, does anyone listen to 128 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: the Productivity Commission? That's what the question is, And that's 129 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 2: kind of a really interesting like is it worse the 130 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: thirty eight million bucks we spend on it each year? 131 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big question. It's a great question. So 132 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: thank you very much Duncan for sending it in, and 133 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: thank you Sean for answering it. 134 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, Michael, Thank you Duncan. 135 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: Now remember, if you've got something that you would like 136 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: to know, it can be about I suppose you could 137 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: ask another question about the Productivity Commission, but it could 138 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: be about anything. Send it on through via LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, 139 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,679 Speaker 1: or at Fearangreed dot com dot au. I'm Michael Thompson 140 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: and the stars Fear and Greed.