1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: As you'll know from five double A news, some two 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: hundred missiles have rained down on Israel, fired from Iran, 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: which is certainly an escalation of events over in the 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: Middle East. The missiles were knocked out by Iran's by 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: Israel's rather iron dome system of missile defense. David. You 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: might have heard David talking to Pembo and Will this morning. 7 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: He lives in Israel and he's an Australian. Obviously, he 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: says they've been told to stay inside. This is a 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: little bit of what he had to say. 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: You know what's happening, and you see it later broadcasts, 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: you know, on the media, on the on the internet 12 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 2: and that sort of thing. You're not supposed to watch it. 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: There are some people who do go out and watch it, 14 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 2: but it's very very dangerous because very hot metal parts 15 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: fall out of the sky and that can be just 16 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: as dangerous as an actual missile itself. So you must, 17 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: you must stay indoors. 18 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: Liberally to Peter Dutton says Australia should be doing more 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: to support the Israel government. 20 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 3: It seems to me that the Prime Minister and Penny 21 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 3: moment at the moment are making decisions that are of 22 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 3: political benefit to them domestically, but which are not in 23 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 3: our national interest. And I think they should stand condemned 24 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 3: for that, and I think most Australians would be of 25 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 3: that same view. 26 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: And the Prime Minister condemning Iran's latest attack on Israel, 27 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: again calling for a ceasefire in the Middle East. He says, 28 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: it's a worrying situation. 29 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 4: We're very concerned about Iran's actions, which is why we 30 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,559 Speaker 4: condemn them. It is a good thing that it would 31 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 4: appear that the defense of Israel, supported by the United States, 32 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 4: has ensured that there is no loss of Sevillan life. 33 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: It would appear so Israel promising to retaliate. Doctor John 34 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: Brunei is founder Bruni Sorry, Founder and CEO Sage International. 35 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 5: John. 36 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 6: Good morning, Good morning, Matthew. 37 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: What's next? 38 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 6: Well, what's next? Is I believe that there will be 39 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 6: some form of Israeli retaliation against Iran directly or the 40 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 6: you know, around about two hundred missiles that the Iranians 41 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 6: had lobbed into Israel. Now, what the scope of this 42 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 6: counter attack may be is anyone's guess at this point 43 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 6: in time. It really depends on what Ben and Minette. Now, 44 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 6: who believes is going to be benefiting Israel if, for instance, 45 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 6: the damage caused and we don't really know that much 46 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 6: about the damage caused by this latest Iranian missile strike 47 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 6: against Israel. We suspect that most of the incoming missiles 48 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 6: had been shot down, but some may have actually gotten through. Now, 49 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 6: if say, for instance, there were there was a high 50 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 6: casualty rate on the ground from this Iranian strike, I 51 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 6: would imagine that Netnia who would go with a more 52 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 6: maximalist response against Iran, which could involve taking out parts 53 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 6: of the Iranian military structure, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, 54 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 6: assets within Iran critical ones, perhaps even going after the 55 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 6: nuclear nuclear plants that Iran has gotten in sort of 56 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 6: bits and pieces all over the country. Now, if that's 57 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 6: the case, what will then be Iran's follow up? Well, 58 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 6: it appears that if a maximalist is rarely strike against 59 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 6: Iran the word to take place over the next forty 60 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 6: eight hours. I mean, this almost looks like a total 61 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 6: war being waged by Israel against Iran and Iran's access 62 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 6: of resistance. I think it's anyone's guest to find out 63 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 6: what the response will be. 64 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: Yep, the nuclear facilities would have to be targeted, you'd 65 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: think by Israel Irans. 66 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 6: It's been it's been a perennial problem for the Israelis. 67 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 6: You know, the last thing that they need is a 68 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 6: nuclear armed Iran, and they if the Israelis choose to 69 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 6: make a more measured counter attack, you know, like they 70 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 6: did back in April when Iran fired its first salvo 71 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 6: of rockets and drones towards Israel. You know, they let 72 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 6: Iran off the Hawk to survive and fight another day basically, 73 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 6: so that would be a that would be a military 74 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 6: problem for or Iran before Israel I should say that 75 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 6: Israel will have to take care of at some point 76 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 6: into the future. And while there's so much chaos that 77 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 6: has been rained down upon Iran and its allies recently. 78 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 6: You know Netnil who is riding high. He's riding high 79 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 6: in polls in Israel. You know, it looks like he's 80 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 6: having military success after military success. It appears that a 81 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 6: maximalist counter strike against Iran can't be ruled out at 82 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 6: this point in time. 83 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: Okay, I'd say there was a US Navy destroyer, in fact, 84 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 1: two of them were firing missile interceptors at the oncoming 85 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: barrage so the US is somewhat involved in this as well. 86 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 6: Well, the US will always be involved in the defense 87 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 6: of Israel. Let's be under no illusion here, you know, 88 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 6: we in Australia think that we're, like, you know, one 89 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 6: of a handful of countries that are right up the 90 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 6: top there in terms of being close allies of the 91 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 6: United States. But all of us are literally expendable. One country, 92 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 6: of course, is not expendable, and that is Israel. And 93 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 6: the Americans will never let Israel fight and what but 94 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 6: they consider an existential war by itself. So yes, you know, 95 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 6: and this also put makes it makes a bit of 96 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 6: a lie in terms of where Donald Trump sits in 97 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 6: all of this, because if he becomes president, he's got 98 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 6: business interests in Israel, his son in law's got businesses 99 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 6: interests in Israel. His friends will then let meautu what 100 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 6: you think that Donald Trump, the anti war candidate, is 101 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 6: not going to defend Israel with American blood and treasure. 102 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 6: You've got to be kidding. Of course he will. So, 103 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,119 Speaker 6: I mean, when we look at Trump talk about foreign 104 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 6: policy and portraying himself as someone who will not engage 105 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 6: in any war outside of the United States, to take 106 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 6: care of immigrants and whatever, you know, patient migrants and 107 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 6: dogs and cats and whatnot. You don't believe the rubbish. 108 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 6: He will support Israel, you know, and as is the 109 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 6: United States is currently doing right now. 110 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: How do you think this will play out in the 111 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: American election? Will you know? I mean Joe Biden, he's 112 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: made a couple of comments today. In fact, he said this, 113 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: he said, the strike largely unsuccessful. Let me just make 114 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: sure this place here we go. 115 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 7: We're still assessing the impact, but based on what we 116 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 7: know now, the attack peers have been defeated and ineffective. 117 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 7: And this is testament Israeli military capability and US military 118 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 7: also a testament to intensive planning to anticipate and offend 119 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 7: against the Preezon attack we expected. 120 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: So, as you say, Israel in the US would be 121 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: having discussions now as to what the retaliation against Iran 122 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: will be. But how do you see it all playing 123 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: out in terms of the election being just over a. 124 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 6: Month away, Well, it'll be an October surprise election for 125 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 6: both major candidates because both of them will not want 126 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 6: to be seen to abandon Israel. And it's fought because 127 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 6: you know, from an electoral perspective, I mean, one of 128 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 6: the swing states of course that will determine events on 129 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 6: the try in November is Michigan, and Michigan has got 130 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 6: a very large Arab population. Now it's complicated by the 131 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 6: fact that the Lebanese that the Israelis are targeting are 132 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,799 Speaker 6: from the site perspective, so they're religiously aligned with Iran, 133 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 6: but they are nonetheless Arabs, right, so you know, unlike 134 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 6: the Iranians who are Persian ethnically but are Shiite. So 135 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 6: you know, there's that kind of weird complex dynamic that 136 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 6: plays between the religious and the ethnic. You know, how 137 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 6: close will the Iranians feel towards say they're members of 138 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 6: the Access of Resistance, Well, there's obviously a sense of well, 139 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 6: some are more important than others up until this point 140 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 6: in time, his Bowler being, you know, the most powerful 141 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 6: non state actor in the Middle East and obviously having 142 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 6: an armed force much greater in capacity than the Lebanese 143 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 6: armed force. That is the destabilizing thing that Israel really 144 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 6: needs to try to get rid of if it wants 145 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 6: to return those sixty thousand Israeli citizens that have been 146 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 6: displaced in the northern territories of Israel, if they want 147 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 6: to go back home. Then southern Lebanon has to be 148 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 6: cleared out of his bowler operatives and also of missile 149 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 6: launching sites. I mean that goes without saying. So it 150 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 6: will be interesting to see how that works because politically 151 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 6: this is a polarizing issue. We've got even protests here 152 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 6: in Australia. Pro has bowl of protest. God helped me. 153 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 6: I would have never thought that I'd lived long enough 154 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 6: to see that happen. But anyway, we've got that, and 155 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 6: you know, the public are starting to see things not 156 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 6: necessarily from Israel's perspective, and I think that that will 157 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 6: have electoral consequences for multicultural countries where you know, ethnic 158 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 6: and sectarian lobby groups bobby their respected national capitals to 159 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 6: do stuff in their favor. And this is probably one 160 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 6: of the you know, one of the things that I 161 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 6: would always say multiculturalism is a net negative for country 162 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 6: like Australia that's so far removed from the Middle East, 163 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 6: and yet all the things that are happening in the 164 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 6: Middle East reverberate so much in Australia. 165 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: You know, the population, So how is it. I mean, 166 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: you say, you wouldn't have ever thought you'd see the day. 167 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: How is it the terror organizations are allowed to wave 168 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: their flags in our streets? 169 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 6: Well, you know, I mean, freedom of speeches are very 170 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 6: long and completely complex notions. Some people, it doesn't matter 171 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 6: what they harbor in terms of their notion of freedom 172 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 6: of speech, are testing the government. You know, how far 173 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 6: do we allow these people to get onto the streets 174 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 6: and wave their flags and if one waves one flag, 175 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 6: the other one will wave the other, and then we 176 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 6: end up having intercommunal violence here in Australia for a 177 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 6: conflict that is not of our making and we're not 178 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 6: involved with. But again, you know, statements like Dubbin and 179 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 6: statements or statements like Dubbin made and statements like our 180 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 6: Prime Minister Albanezi has made are not helping. That is 181 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 6: because again that plays into that notion that we're having 182 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 6: to pay attention to ethnic and sectarian constituents rather than Australians. Now, 183 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 6: if we were to stop playing these stupid games, you know, 184 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 6: with regard to multiculturalism and how it affects foreign policy 185 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 6: and national security, we'd be in a much more stable environment. 186 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 6: But we're not playing that game where we're in another planet. 187 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: Quite frankly, John, thank you for your time this morning. 188 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 6: No worries. 189 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: Thank you to John Bruney, founder and CEO Sage International. 190 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: Mike Kazama's called in essay Friends of Palestine Association. Make 191 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: good morning. 192 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 5: Oh good morning, Matthew. How are all right? Thank you Matthew. Yeah, 193 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 5: very complicated, worrying times. But I have to disagree with 194 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 5: John on a few things. His image of Israel seems 195 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 5: to be of a state that's seeking to coexist both 196 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 5: of the Palestinians and the neighboring state. 197 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: Well it is, It is exactly that it's sought to 198 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: do that for decades. 199 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 5: That's not the reality. Well, well, thirty years ago they 200 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 5: signed a peace agreement with the Palestinians for the two 201 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 5: state solution, the Oslo. Of course, in that thirty years 202 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 5: they've settled the Palestinian territories, they've effectively undermined the possibility 203 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 5: of peace. They kill people, they detain them, they blow 204 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 5: them up, and then when there's an attack on Israel 205 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 5: like October seventh, represented suddenly that history is lost. But 206 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 5: it's the reality. It's what Israeli colonization is what drives resistance, 207 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 5: and that's that's simple reality. 208 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,719 Speaker 1: There's a nation there that seeks to be democratic, it 209 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: stands alone against all the countries around it. Of course 210 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 1: they're going to be opposed to its existence. Of course 211 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: there's going to be groups as Hesbila and Hamas want 212 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 1: to see the extermination of the Israeli state, the end 213 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,239 Speaker 1: of it. So the attacks are on and Israel retaliates, 214 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: you wouldn't expect them to do anything differently. 215 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 5: How can we possibly say that Israel is seeking to 216 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 5: be a democratic state. Well, Matthew, if half the population 217 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 5: is ruled for fifty seven odd years, ruled under military rule, 218 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 5: they had no rights. They're not said they can't have 219 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 5: their own state, the subject to settlements and settler attacks. 220 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 5: That's not a democratic state when half the population lives 221 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 5: under the gun. Excuse me, all. 222 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: Right, Mike, will have to leave it there. But one 223 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: last point you want to make. 224 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, when Israel began its attack on Gaza post 225 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 5: October seventh, it's now had a year of what the 226 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 5: world is recognized as a genocide, and the International Court 227 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 5: of Justices also recognized that, and they've said that countries 228 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,479 Speaker 5: around the world need to be acting against the Israeli occupation, 229 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 5: that Israel needs to stop the genocide. 230 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: I reckon all this argument, this particular argument, would be 231 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: solved very quickly if the remaining hostages were returned to Israel. 232 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: If Israel then continues the course it's been on, you'd 233 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: have every right, I reckon, to make that complaint legitimately. 234 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: But until those hostages are returned, the Israeli government is 235 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: not going to change course. It wants those people back 236 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: and understandably so, and that part of this drama of 237 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: the last year would be resolved very very quickly. I 238 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: suspect if those remaining hostages were returned. Mike, look, I 239 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: have to leave it there. Need to take a break.