WEBVTT - The Man Who Broke Into Katie Walker's Hotel Room... 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:00.800 Trigger on ing. 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:05.240 Some listeners may find this podcast distressing. This is a 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:09.120 real story about a real person that is still unfolding 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:13.400 in real time, and any leads or information from anybody 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.480 out there may help the family either find the answers 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:23.200 or the closure they're desperately searching for. Welcome back to 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.960 the Disappearance of Katie Walker. A podcast series they never 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.159 thought I'd be making. I wish I wasn't making, but 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.720 is already proving to be crucial in finding answers. And 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.640 that's thanks to you listening right now and everyone following along, 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:43.120 sharing the post and starting conversations out there about Katie 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:47.920 and asking what happened to this woman. The only chance 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.839 that cases like this have, where the mainstream media ignored 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:54.160 them and the police don't want to dig deeper on 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:56.720 for reasons I will get to in this episode, the 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.520 only chance they have to find justice or and it 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.800 comes from a community like this getting behind it. And 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.280 in the last few days since my content started rolling 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.480 out on Sunday and Australia slowly started to become aware 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.800 of this sad story, several people have now come forward 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:20.840 with bits of information that overall means that we I 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:23.919 say we because I'm the middle person between these people 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.200 and the family and the investigator, we can start to 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:31.680 piece together some of the mystery surrounding Katie's final weeks 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.080 in Sydney. And before I get into the main points 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.240 of today's episode, which is I'm not gonna lie, quite 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:43.759 disturbing to listen to and quite eerie and scary if 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.200 I'm being honest, I just want to remind you that 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.360 this is still an active investigation, so there's only so 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.920 much I can say publicly on certain things. But one 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:57.200 thing to know about Katie as this unfolds is her 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.600 life was not conventional like most of ours, which are 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:04.360 often defined by days that could be described as mundane. 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.120 You know, We've got office hours that we build our 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.000 routines around. We've got identical commutes we repeat daily, often 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.760 at the same time, alongside the same faces, and we 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.720 all have groups of friends who all know pretty much 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.160 everything about each other. As most of our lives have 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:25.840 spent years becoming intertwined with those around us, which is 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:30.120 something most of us welcome if we're being honest, And 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.680 you know, the odd bits of spontaneity can give us 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.679 a dopamine spike and he's great, yes, But ultimately aren't 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:40.200 we all creatures of habit and with those habits we 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.640 build our own little communities around us that become so 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.280 close that if you were to vanish tomorrow, if I 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.080 was to vanish tomorrow, there'd be endless people who'd notice 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:56.160 within hours, and those people could retrace my steps without 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.720 the need of CCTV or the police, because again, for 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:04.400 most of our lives are predictable in the best possible way. 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:09.320 Yet for Katie, hers wasn't and she didn't have those 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:13.920 people around her. And since returning to Sydney from America 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.160 in February, a decision Katie made to be closer to 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.480 her two teenage children who live here with their father, 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:25.360 who Katie divorced from nine years ago, Katie's brother, and family, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.960 they have struggled to piece together her final months and 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.720 weeks and days, because again, she didn't have that close 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.760 circle of people here who were part of her day 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:40.040 to day, because she was still establishing her day to 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.800 day and slowly rebuilding that life here that she left 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:48.120 a long long time ago for reasons that don't need 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.839 to be made public, just out of respect. Back to 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.760 today's podcast and the point of this, although Katie didn't 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.880 have that close knit group of friends around her or 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:00.920 her tribe as she often refer to her friend group 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:04.680 in America as thanks to her story becoming public this 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:08.080 week and you guys backing it and getting out there, 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.840 we now know that she had the lovely lady that 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:13.880 she met on a walk at the start of May 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.160 in ba and became close to in those final weeks. 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.880 And we also know there's the waitress who got to 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:21.960 know her quite well in the cafe that. 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:23.680 Nobody knew she even liked to visit. 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.280 And then there's the neighbors that she'd started having little 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.080 chats with near her unit in Darling Point. And this week, 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.840 there's just so many people who have briefly crossed paths 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.960 with Katie since she returned to Sydney who have now 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.839 seen the content and are aware that she is missing, 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:42.960 they have reached out, and when you're compiling all the 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.839 little bits of information they're sharing from their various chats 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.600 and interactions with Katie, alongside the things Katie had been 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:55.000 telling her two closest friends back in America, Justine and Elizabeth, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.560 who you will hear from in this episode like it 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:02.919 is helping massively, and the more scraps of information the 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.960 continued public exposure brings to the surface. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:07.960 The more Katie's. 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:11.040 Father and brother, the two family members who flew from 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.120 the UK to Sydney the second they heard she'd gone missing, 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.760 and are now spending thousands to fund their private investigation 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:22.159 on the more they are becoming convinced that Katie just 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:26.200 did not take her own life, which brings us to 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.960 the main point of today's episode. In the last episode 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.039 of this podcast, I retraced Katie's steps and questioned how 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.159 the police can believe that Katie genuinely walked into the 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:41.760 water in broad daylight and ended her life, something that 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:45.560 every single person following this has also questioned too, Me 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.000 and you guys listening, and Katie's family and friends. We've 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.080 all then questioned, will if she didn't turn off the 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.480 street towards the coastal track, then she either went into 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:59.159 one of those houses in the CCTV dead zone on 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.600 that street, or she went into a vehicle. 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.400 And they're two far more plausible. 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.160 Scenarios than she went into the water, given the time 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.359 of day and what she was wearing. Or as I 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.320 questioned at the end of the last podcast. If Katie 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.920 did do one of these things, but it wasn't of 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:21.280 her own choice and she was perhaps again it sounds insensitive, 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.120 but dragged into a vehicle or a property than who 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:27.440 possibly could be targeting her? 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.719 Why Katie? Why there? 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.279 And as we've explored this at this point in time, 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.120 as I'm recording this today, one person comes to mind 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.960 of all of those loved ones of Katie's who are 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.200 now urging me to keep sharing all of this publicly 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.120 because it is slowly bringing answers. 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.120 Enter the Man from Dubai. 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:57.039 Earlier this year, in February, as Katie left America for Australia, 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.200 she stopped off in to buy briefly. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:06:59.960 On a work trip. 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.000 Katie was hoping to relaunch her jewelry brand Dream of 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:08.039 Maya in the Middle East, a brand which Katie says 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.840 embodies her near two decades of expertise in finite jewelry 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:17.840 design and combines artistry with deep spiritual symbolism. One night, though, 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.440 while in Dubai, as Katie was tucked up in bed 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.600 in her hotel suite, she was woken up by the 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:26.600 sound of someone breaking in. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.680 I'm not sure if you heard about this but this 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:37.440 guy in Dubai got a key to her room by 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:42.760 posing as her husband to the concierge, and so just 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:47.280 goes into her room late at night in Ah and 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.320 this was like, gosh, it has to have been a 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:56.600 few months ago because she was in Dubai for some time. 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.360 But it really freaked her out, and she said, Elizabeth, 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.320 you know, I just feel unsafe, you know, I'm just 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:07.960 I'm sleeping and these these guys come in and to 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.480 my room drinking drunk, and she had to you know, 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.760 try to get him, just got him out, you know. 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.280 But she was really pissed off with the you know, 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.920 the front desk. You know, how dare they give this 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:22.440 you know, person a key. 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.800 Katie didn't just describe that terrifying incident to her friend Elizabeth, 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.680 who you just had me speaking to, but she also 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.680 offered a little bit more context as to who the 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:36.679 mom was because he wasn't a complete stranger. 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.680 You know, she'd met him in a club or but 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:45.320 there was no relationship or any you know thing between them. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:51.640 But you know, so I don't know, I don't remember 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.440 her saying any details, you know, what he looked like. 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:56.280 And she goes, you know, but she said, you know, 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.000 there was no you know, attraction there or anything. 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.400 According to Elizabeth, Katie had met that man out earlier 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.440 in the evening, and reading between the lines a little, 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.839 it sounds like Katie could have rejected his advances after 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.600 finding out about that incident. My first question, did Katie 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.280 report this to the authorities? And although some of the 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:22.319 people I've spoken to about this suggest she didn't necessarily 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.160 want the bother of an incident involving foreign police in 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.440 a country she was only briefly stopping in, one friend 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.000 did suggest that the hotel may have provided her a 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:35.839 complimentary stay and waived the bill of her stay if 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.680 she didn't do that or report the work as dangerous 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:42.520 negligence as he so carelessly handed someone a key to 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.280 her room for the rest of katie stay in Dubai. 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.320 Then there was nothing more with this man, no more incident. 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.880 And then she did make it to Australia, as we know. 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.240 But this isn't where the story with the man from 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:58.720 Dubai ends, because this wasn't the last time Katie was 0:09:58.760 --> 0:09:59.400 to see him. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:04.400 He showed up in Sydney, and it's like, what is 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:09.360 the chances of that, Like a freaking encounter that you know, 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.559 nothing happened except that you know, she was a sound 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.360 sleep and you know, in her bed. But you know, 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.720 both me and Justine was like, what's the chances of 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:26.760 this dude showing up in Sydney jumping into it? 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.320 Huh? How do you guys know he came to Sydney. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.920 Because she told us, she said, she goes, I can't 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.720 fucking believe it. You know, that guy that was in 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.920 my room, that came in my room, he's in you know, 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.200 I bumped into him on the beach in Sydney. She's 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.640 was with the fucking chances of that, you know, she 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:47.760 was like, what the hell? 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.880 You know, going solely off what Katie told Elizabeth about 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:52.040 the incident in Sydney. 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.360 The man didn't appear to be following her, harassing her, 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.600 acting suspicious, opposing as a threat during that moment where 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.400 that's crossed. But the sheer coincidence of it, if that's 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.880 what it even was, did leave Katie quite shaken. 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.480 And so he partly said he was. She said he 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.480 was really apologetic, but she said, I was still, you know, 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:17.840 freaking freaked out about it. And he's she said, he's 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.960 you know it's weird though, it's just although she told 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.360 me she said, it's just weird again. 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.320 As far as I'm aware at the time of recording this, 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.040 this was all several weeks before Katie went missing, and 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.760 in those final weeks she never mentioned to her friends 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.000 that she bumped into the man from Dubai again. But 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:39.200 when it did become known that Katie was missing, this 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.600 mine is, of course the first person who came to 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:46.400 the mind of Katie's friends. The issue is though nobody 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.199 knows a single thing about him other than his ethnicity. 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.360 They don't know his name, his age is high, even 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.240 his nationality. Was he from Australia and just visiting Dubai 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.160 the same time Katie was, or was he from to 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.080 Buy and he was then visiting Australia. Katie's friends also 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.640 have no idea what hotel she was staying at Dubuy, 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.920 what date this incident occurred on, or anything that could help. 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:16.200 She never formed a formal complaint, you know, to the police. 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.640 I guess that's why they said they can't have any information. 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:23.040 But the authorities know about it, but they're like, well, 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.720 you know, they don't have the investigators don't have their name, 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.960 his name. I said, well, surely they'll have pictures of 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.360 the event, you know, like you know, people coming and 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.840 going into a hotel on that particular day. They've got 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.120 to have, you know, the one that gave them the key. 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:42.120 You know. It is like they have to have some 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.760 kind of way of being able to, you know, find 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.160 who the hellless person is. 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.200 But one thing I do know right now is that 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.640 New South Wales Police they have been made aware of 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.280 this person by Katie's friends, her father and her brother. 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.679 Katie's father and brother even think they may have figured 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.480 out the hotel and date, and they have made all 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.200 of this information now from the UK where they. 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:04.800 Are, to New South Wales Police. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.880 And in response to this, the police have done nothing 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.200 because at the time of recording this, over the week 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:17.400 they've had this information, they haven't replied because as far 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.840 as we're all concerned, in the eyes of New South 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.960 Wales Police, this case is as good as closed to them. 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.679 Katie ended her life and chose to do that, and 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.880 also to them, why bother allocating resources to try and 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.880 prove otherwise. And the reason New South Wales Police seems 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.360 so set on this theory that Katie did end her life, 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.920 despite there still being no proof of this and their 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.920 water theory just seeming impossible is because of what they 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:55.920 discovered in Katie's apartment after she was reported missing. Trigger 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.280 Wing again now, because the next part of this podcast 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.040 is going to get a little dark. Please know everything 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.840 you're about to hear is being shared with permission of 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.080 Katie's father and brother, who at the police's point of 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:11.800 contact in this investigation, despite their now being a noticeable 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.400 lack of any contact from the police. So once Katie's 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.560 disappearance was made known the police, as they broke into 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.800 her apartment in Darling Bay, they found what they believe 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.240 and notes left behind to her children and a friend, 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.400 and they believe those notes are proof that Katie ended 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.360 her life. But to those who know Katie best, you 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.480 know the family she's had her entire life, and the 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.920 two close friends in America who've been the closest people 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.200 to her over the last five years, they've also read 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.200 these notes and they do not think the same. 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:52.120 The letter that I had seen, you know, it was 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.600 you couldn't even read it, not because her cursive, but 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.360 because the words didn't make sense and many of the 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:02.520 words were misspelled. He was very articulate, she had impeccable grammar, 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.760 she spoke very well, she wrote well when she communicated 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:10.360 via text message, so it's incongruent with her traditional behavior. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.200 And before I go into this, I do acknowledge how 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.840 bleak this is. But everything you're about to hear it 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:20.160 is so vital. Katie's brother, again, who has asked I 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.920 share this publicly. He tells me that amongst Katie's belongings 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.760 that were left in a unit, there was a journal 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.040 with some bits of paper tucked into it and next 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.280 to it which were basically all full of ramblings and 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:36.520 thoughts and messages to herself and other people throughout her life. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.200 And he has read everything on what the police believe 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.760 are suicide notes. He says they are ambiguous at best, 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.480 and they do not feel authentically Katie. And he says 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:54.440 in those messages, which were so illegible that they had 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.720 to use AI to decipher, there was nothing in them 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.680 in his mind that would indicate Katie wanted to take 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.200 her own life, as she never specifically said goodbye. 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:05.000 He says they. 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.440 Were more in the reflections, which did have some sadness 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.880 and regret, but again he does not feel these notes 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:16.240 and messages at the end of this journal were authentically Katie, 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.440 which is something that her close friend Justine back in America, 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.920 upon being sent pictures of these notes, agrees with. 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:30.920 Well the interpretation that was provided. The translation is, you 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:32.760 know in such a way that if you look at 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:37.960 the words that are actually written, it's in gibberish. And 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:43.600 so I feel that it's difficult to you know, these 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.200 pieces of evidence are difficult discern, but when it comes 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.200 down to it, there's truthfully no evidence that she ended 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:53.080 her life, and that's I think the most pressing thing. 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.280 Regardless of the presence of these letters, which are very 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:57.040 difficult to read. 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.760 In Katie's earlier journal entries, which are a lot more legible, 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.159 the brother says that she talked about many personal things. 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:08.680 They were all future orientated of future plans, business ideas, 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.479 things she wanted to do and achieve, instead of what 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.159 the police think were signs she wanted to. 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:15.879 End her life. 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.440 Those questionable notes and the suspicion with the man from 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.400 Dubai aren't the only reason that Katie's loved ones do 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.840 not believe that she took her own life. As you 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.440 heard in previous episodes of this podcast, her friends explained 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.800 how the woman they knew had the opposite mentality and 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.320 Katie she was a fighter, and she was someone always 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.679 looking forwards not backwards, as she was now building a 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:43.240 new life. 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:45.960 Yeah, I think for Katie, she was definitely had a 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:50.800 big transition in her life. And with that, you know, 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.240 it could be an ungroundedness or an uncertainty. We often, 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:59.040 you know, all experience those seasons. I feel like, you know, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.640 she relocated to Sydney because she wanted to be closer 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.679 to her children, and to be honest with you, in 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.080 my time that I've been close friends with her her, 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.680 it had never once crossed my mind that she would 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.800 be somebody that would choose to in her own life 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.680 just based off of her character, her just her personality. 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.640 It not once crossed my mind, even in the last 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.119 several months. 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.520 The buffling thing, like it feels she's looking. 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.040 Forward in life rather than feeling like, you know, there's 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:31.200 no options anymore. 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.239 Well, and from a logical standpoint too, she there was 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:42.800 solutions in place, you know, And so I have felt 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.800 that the behavior and the communication in that narrow end 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.359 of time from her last sighting just didn't really add up. 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.359 Despite the other evidence that was available. 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.240 And one of the ways she was doing that, Elizabeth 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.960 and just beIN tell me was by having them sell 0:18:58.080 --> 0:18:59.880 some of the jeweys she'd left with them in an 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.560 America so she could use the money to get back 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.040 on her feet a little bit more until she had 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.359 some more consistent work coming through. 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.720 It's just hard to believe, and I I just have 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.160 a hard time believing that she killed herself. I don't 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.560 know my first instinct that something happened to her. 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.440 The last communication Justine and Elizabeth did have with Katie 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:27.280 before her disappearance was then finalizing her bank details where 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.119 they could send the money to money that Katie was 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.920 relying on to help get her back on her feet 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.240 so she could continue building this new life in Sydney, 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.440 so she could be around for her children, who were 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:43.919 the driving force in everything all of this. Katie's returned 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.400 to Australia, it was to be there for them. 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.760 If somebody less than twenty four hours prior is completing 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:54.560 a bank transaction that could be potential relief for some circumstance, 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.560 then that oftentimes to me, if somebody was truly suicidal, 0:19:58.560 --> 0:19:59.879 had a plan and was ready to act upon it, 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.439 I think they would care too much about these for the. 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.359 Listings that was on the twenty first of May that 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:10.440 we text and she disappeared twenty third. You know, what's 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.040 the likelihood of somebody wanting to kill themselves if they're 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.200 waiting for the large sum of money, for a decent 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:18.280 amount of money to come. 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.320 One of the most asked questions this week I've seen 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:25.760 is why I note mainstream media covering Katie's story still, 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.000 And I now believe it's because of these notes. 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:31.040 To the police. 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.720 In their eyes, they've got a woman reported missing, a 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.600 woman they've now realized was quite lost and a little 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:39.199 sad at this point of her life as she was 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.080 rebuilding things in Sydney and she didn't have a big 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.720 support network here. And they've then discovered what they think 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.680 as suicide notes, and they've then tracked her with CCTV 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.160 to a block away from water. You put those things 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:56.679 together and yeah, it's easy to make an assumption what 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.280 may have happened next. And in my opinion and the 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.960 opinion of Katie's friends and family, they feel that in 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.400 the eyes of the police, again it's already case closed. 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:11.320 But two Katie's father and brother, two men who have 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.719 known Katie all of her life, and to Justine and Elizabeth, 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.119 two of Katie's closest friends in recent years who she 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.360 was still chatting with twenty four hours prior to her disappearance. 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:26.159 None of them believe those notes were suicide notes, and 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.800 they also question did Katie even write them. But the 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:35.440 problem is these people wanting answers. They're in the UK 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:39.320 and America and they aren't here, which is why they're 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:41.960 asking me to keep sharing this right now and to 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:45.600 keep the public commentary going so hopefully the police stop 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.639 ignoring them and the police stop thinking they know what 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.480 happened because they don't. Until the proof of that, this 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.280 should still be treated as an open investigation. And the 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:59.359 police may say it is an open investigation, but what 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:03.240 do you investating? Even I emailed the detective and had 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.679 no reply. I emailed police media for an update, and 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:08.320 their job is to inform the media. 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:10.520 I had no reply. 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.280 And another initial theory that Katie's family tell when the 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.720 police had was that Katie likely went to the Gap, which, 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.520 for those who don't know Sydney's eastern suburbs is a 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:23.560 prolific stretch of cliff top that has claimed so many 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:26.320 lives before from people jumping off, and it is dubbed 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:30.680 Australia's most famous suicide spot. But that entire stretch of 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:35.200 cliffs is fenced and it's lined with endless CCTV cameras 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:37.960 that have a live feed to the emergency services which 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.800 the police know. And then further up the coast just 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.600 next to that where the camera stop, it's still also 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:48.240 fenced with houses overlooking that and these coastal tracks there 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:51.480 running alongside the cliff top and and in broad daylight. 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:53.960 Remember Katie went missing on a Saturday. It's just so 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:58.320 highly unlikely that anyone can do something there without it 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:02.840 being noticed almost instantly. And one of the reasons I'm 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.920 told the police did initially suspect she may have gone 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:08.320 to the gap when she was reported missing was because 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:12.320 as they started tracking her final movements from leaving the 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.719 apartment for the last time on CCTV, they did have 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:19.320 footage of her leaving a cafe in Double Bay and 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:21.639