Speaker 1: Live on Sky News.
Speaker 2: This is Sharry Good Evening Tonight, Peter Dutton calls Albanezi
Speaker 2: a liar as yet another minister declines to apologize for
Speaker 2: the two hundred and seventy five dollar energy bill. Broken promise,
Speaker 2: we'll get stuck in in a moment and breaking news tonight,
Speaker 2: a formal apology over a Brisbane mother's delivery of a
Speaker 2: stranger's baby in a major IVF bungle. Those details coming up.
Speaker 2: Plus we'll get the inside story behind Donald Trump's tariff reversal.
Speaker 1: That's with Adam Crichton shortly.
Speaker 2: And we'll hear the coalition plan to reverse the tariffs
Speaker 2: if they win office. I'll speak with Shadow Trade Minister
Speaker 2: Kevin Hogan, but first tonight, Peter Dutton has accused the
Speaker 2: Albanese government of lying, a downing accusation that comes as
Speaker 2: ministers refuse to apologize for promising power bills would be
Speaker 2: two hundred and seventy five dollars less and ag you
Speaker 2: minace that. Chris Bowen today was the latest who refused
Speaker 2: to concede that energy prices had risen under his watch. Instead,
Speaker 2: he attacked the journalist who asked the question, deriding him
Speaker 2: for supposedly having strong opinions, and even for appearing on
Speaker 2: Sky News in the evening God forbid. Here was the
Speaker 2: very sensible question Chris Bowen was asked, a question he
Speaker 2: should have been expecting this campaign.
Speaker 3: Chris Bowen. In December twenty twenty one, you commissioned modeling
Speaker 3: which showed and you pledged that you would drop power
Speaker 3: prices by now by two hundred and seventy five dollars
Speaker 3: for residential homes. You committed to it again in April
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, when you were told that modeling was flawed.
Speaker 3: You continued to commit to it. In twenty twenty three
Speaker 3: and twenty twenty four, even though electricity prices were rising.
Speaker 3: You continued to be committed to it when you started
Speaker 3: subsidizing power bills. And now this year, as subsidies now
Speaker 3: through a new record and they're going through to the
Speaker 3: end of the year, you're spending billions of dollars on that.
Speaker 3: You are now claiming that electricity price falls due to
Speaker 3: subsidies are a fall in an electricity bill. Now, electricity
Speaker 3: prices are rising, aren't they, Minister. That's written into a
Speaker 3: level every electricity bill, isn't it Minister. And if you
Speaker 3: can't admit that simple fact here today, why should anyone
Speaker 3: believe anything that you say?
Speaker 2: An excellent question from Chris Hillman, but of course Chris
Speaker 2: Bowen refused to admit the obvious fact that power prices
Speaker 2: are rising.
Speaker 4: You've got strongers about these matters, which you express on
Speaker 4: Sky News in the Evenings, and that's your right. I
Speaker 4: disagree with the way that you look at these matters.
Speaker 4: I disagree with the approach that you take. It's disingenuous
Speaker 4: and dishonest of you to blame all this so renewable
Speaker 4: energy as you do on Sky in the Evenings. It's
Speaker 4: just not right, sir, It's just not fair.
Speaker 2: Accuses the journalist Chris Hilman of being disingenuous. But isn't
Speaker 2: he being disingenuous when he indicates that any price rises
Speaker 2: are because of global factors, not because he's deliberately repositioned
Speaker 2: the energy market and rushed the transition to rely on
Speaker 2: more renewables.
Speaker 1: And have less cheap, reliable energy.
Speaker 2: And what about the way he has to say on
Speaker 2: Sky in the Evenings is which.
Speaker 4: You express on Sky News in the Evenings, and that's
Speaker 4: your right, as you do on Sky in the evenings.
Speaker 4: It's just not right, sir, which you express on Sky.
Speaker 3: Your premise.
Speaker 2: As if it's a criticism to be on Sky News.
Speaker 2: Orman as a former ABC and nine political editor, and
Speaker 2: he didn't let Chris Bowen get away with slurs instead
Speaker 2: of actually answering the question.
Speaker 3: Have electricity prices risen on your watch? The exact opposite
Speaker 3: of what you pledged?
Speaker 4: Have that we have denied. We have never denied that
Speaker 4: energy prices are higher than we would like. That's why
Speaker 4: we've delivered three rounds of energy to be relief bill relief satage.
Speaker 3: You wrote, electricity prices have fallen. That's not true, is it?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 4: The fact of the matter is, if you look at
Speaker 4: the recent data, Australia's had the lowest energy inflation in
Speaker 4: the world. You know, because you might deny that, and
Speaker 4: I know you deny several things.
Speaker 5: Reason for it?
Speaker 3: What is the reason for mister.
Speaker 4: You when you're ask you a question or are your debating, it's.
Speaker 3: Just that you are completely avoiding it, as you always do.
Speaker 6: We get a blast.
Speaker 4: I know you're a man of strong us on these matters,
Speaker 4: and I said, I've always had respect for you, but
Speaker 4: I have a fundamentally different view to the one that
Speaker 4: you have developed in recent years.
Speaker 2: It's truly so absurd how each member of the alban
Speaker 2: Eazy government can stand up there and can claim that
Speaker 2: energy prices aren't rising after they promised some ninety seven
Speaker 2: times that they'd fall by two hundred.
Speaker 1: And seventy five dollars or more.
Speaker 2: Reducing the cost of living was Anthony Albanese's central attack
Speaker 2: line against Scott Morrison, when at the time there'd only
Speaker 2: been one interest rate rise. But as you know Albanez,
Speaker 2: he blamed Morrison for that single rate rise, yet then
Speaker 2: took no responsibility for the subsequent twelve under his watch.
Speaker 2: It's utterly preposterous to try and explain away the central
Speaker 2: broken promise on cost of living. It's like they're trying
Speaker 2: to claim black is white, and voters can see through
Speaker 2: this deception. Chris Bowen would have more integrity today if
Speaker 2: he just stood up there and apologized for getting it wrong,
Speaker 2: for making a promise he was never going to be
Speaker 2: able to keep a promise he shouldn't have made.
Speaker 1: Instead, he tries to come up with.
Speaker 2: Excuses, including attacking the journalist, and so questions around accountability
Speaker 2: will keep coming we'll keep following him. And it was
Speaker 2: a question on the two hundred and seventy five dollars
Speaker 2: broken promise that even the unimpeachably objective and politically neutral
Speaker 2: Ross Greenwood asked of the Treasurer last night twice, will.
Speaker 7: You apologize to the people of Australia tonight for having
Speaker 7: your government having said that energy prices would come down
Speaker 7: by two hundred and seventy five dollars.
Speaker 8: I take responsibility for all of the decisions that we've
Speaker 8: taken in our budget, so you will apologize, including let
Speaker 8: me finish.
Speaker 7: Will you look down the battle of the camera and
Speaker 7: apologize for that? Because is that something you should do,
Speaker 7: because again, that was a promise, it was not fulfilled.
Speaker 8: Well, the two hundred and seventy five figure that you're
Speaker 8: referring to from the modeling in twenty twenty one predated
Speaker 8: two important developments and.
Speaker 2: When Alberizi has been asked this question, no apology either.
Speaker 2: This gives credence to accusations that alber Ezi is not
Speaker 2: being upfront with the Australian people, not on power bills
Speaker 2: or other matters of public interest.
Speaker 1: The polls show there.
Speaker 2: There's a live possibility of a hung parliament and Green's
Speaker 2: leader Adam Band came out yesterday and outlined the list
Speaker 2: of demands he'd make of Albanesi in the case of
Speaker 2: a hung parliament. They included negative gearing and capital gains
Speaker 2: tax changes.
Speaker 9: I can announce today that the Greens will make reforming
Speaker 9: negative gearing in the capital gains text discount a priority
Speaker 9: in the next parliament, including when there's a minority government.
Speaker 9: The Greens plan would see negative gearing in the capital
Speaker 9: gains text discount scrapt for wealthy property investors, but preserved
Speaker 9: for what are often called mum and Dad investors with
Speaker 9: one investment property.
Speaker 2: Well, all of this is a terrifying prospect, the idea
Speaker 2: that a radical extremist left party could be co governing Australia,
Speaker 2: Adam Band being Albernizi's.
Speaker 1: Partner in crime.
Speaker 10: Well.
Speaker 2: Peter Dutton last night said that both Alberzi and Adam
Speaker 2: Bant have similar ideologies.
Speaker 11: Their blood brothers Anthony Albernesi and Adam Bent had joined
Speaker 11: at the hip. Only their mothers can tell them apart.
Speaker 2: Only their mothers can tell them apart. It was a
Speaker 2: great line from Peter Darton when he spoke to Chris
Speaker 2: Kenny last night. But in truth, the Greens are so
Speaker 2: grotesque that they're even backing a candidate who once joked
Speaker 2: that Hitler was having fun. And as you'd expect, Albinezi
Speaker 2: was far from pleased with this intervention from the Greens
Speaker 2: leader right in the middle of the election campaign, and
Speaker 2: he even criticized journalists for asking questions about it.
Speaker 10: Can you rule out any changes to negative gearing and
Speaker 10: capital gains tests?
Speaker 12: How hard is it for the fiftieth time? Just here,
Speaker 12: just here, just here, to form a government? What are
Speaker 12: you talking about?
Speaker 10: Sorry, if the Greens come to you and you need
Speaker 10: their vote to pass legislation, will you rule out changing
Speaker 10: negative gearing settings and capital gains?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 12: And you might have noticed, I'm mean you're a state correspondent.
Speaker 12: But let me explain. There are twenty five votes we
Speaker 12: have in the Senate in order to get legislation through.
Speaker 12: We're in that situation, have been in that situation for
Speaker 12: this entire term.
Speaker 2: Now, the prospect of a partnership with the Greens, if
Speaker 2: Albanezi wins minority government or if there's a hung parliament,
Speaker 2: this is a realistic prospect. It's a legitimate line of
Speaker 2: questioning for public accountability and transparency.
Speaker 1: Albanezy needs to answer questions about this.
Speaker 2: He can't be allowed to get away with brushing them
Speaker 2: off by getting angry at journalists and adopting.
Speaker 1: A patronizing tone.
Speaker 13: Well.
Speaker 2: Peter Darton seized on this frustration felt by voters today
Speaker 2: when he launched a spectacular spray against the Prime Minister,
Speaker 2: accusing him of being a liar. Now Dartan is in
Speaker 2: the fight of his political life with just three weeks
Speaker 2: and two days until the election.
Speaker 1: Three weeks in two days, and.
Speaker 2: Instead of simply responding to a question from a journalist
Speaker 2: about a Liberal candidate, he took the press conference into
Speaker 2: his own hands to frame this message.
Speaker 11: The Prime Minister has lied about the two hundred and
Speaker 11: seventy five dollars Australian families have suffered because of that.
Speaker 11: He's lied about the fact that power prices have now
Speaker 11: gone up by thirteen hundred dollars. That's the reality. The
Speaker 11: Prime Minister lied about falling off the stage for some reason.
Speaker 5: I mean it was caught on camera.
Speaker 11: Anthony Albertezi is out there telling people that he won't
Speaker 11: form a government with the Greens. People know he's lying
Speaker 11: about that. The Prime Minister has been lying about the
Speaker 11: medi Scare campaign. We increased hospital funding by sixteen percent,
Speaker 11: we increased education funding from thirteen billion to twenty five
Speaker 11: billion dollars and the Prime Minister is out there looking
Speaker 11: Australians in the eye saying that we did the opposite,
Speaker 11: but the numbers show that he's lying.
Speaker 2: Now, the Opposition leader has been warming up to his
Speaker 2: attack that he claims Albaneze is a liar, and he
Speaker 2: raised the theme of dishonesty during Tuesday Nights Leader's debate. Now,
Speaker 2: accusing Albin Easy of being a liar will likely become
Speaker 2: a daily feature of his campaign appearances, and the message
Speaker 2: is effective because Australians are feeling the pain with the
Speaker 2: cost of living and as the campaign rolls on, no
Speaker 2: one can forget the promises made at the last election
Speaker 2: that grocery prices would be cheaper, power bills would be
Speaker 2: less and the cost of living would be easier, all
Speaker 2: under Anthony Alban Easy. Okay, We're going to get to
Speaker 2: Trump's tariffs in a moment with Adam Crichton, but now
Speaker 2: let's bring in Sky News host Joe Hudebrand and Wa
Speaker 2: opposition leader Basil Zemplus.
Speaker 1: Great to see you both.
Speaker 2: Love Well, let's stick with this energy minister's debate today
Speaker 2: because we saw Ted O'Brien again call on Chris Bowen
Speaker 2: to apologize for the broken promise.
Speaker 1: This is now becoming a theme.
Speaker 2: Will you apologize for your commitment that power bills would
Speaker 2: be churnentrent for five churndrences seventy.
Speaker 1: Five dollars less, Joe?
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it just be better for Alban easy to be
Speaker 2: upfront and go, Yep, we got it wrong, I'm sorry.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Look, I think there is a way to do that,
Speaker 6: and I thought there was a way for charmers to
Speaker 6: do it last night as well. But I think the
Speaker 6: fear is with this culture and it sort of goes
Speaker 6: beyond politics as well, where you demand that someone apologizes
Speaker 6: for something and then as soon as they do it said, haha,
Speaker 6: you apologized, you admitted it, you were wrong. So instead
Speaker 6: of making the issue go away, it makes it worse.
Speaker 6: But I think certainly there's no point in telling people
Speaker 6: that black is white. There's no point saying I know actually,
Speaker 6: if you close your eyes and squint in the half light,
Speaker 6: your power.
Speaker 1: Bills down page.
Speaker 6: And there's a way also, I think of just being
Speaker 6: honest about it that actually tells a fairly positive story
Speaker 6: as well, so I can say, yes, look, there were
Speaker 6: huge rises in twenty twenty two twenty three, in part
Speaker 6: as the result of the war in Ukraine. But yes,
Speaker 6: there were some issues with renewables because people were buying
Speaker 6: power at spot highest spot prices because of.
Speaker 1: A lot Wow you're doing but and you're trying to
Speaker 1: explain it.
Speaker 6: There's aay of instead of just sort of trying to
Speaker 6: change the change the line of attack the journalist or whatever.
Speaker 6: You can't say yes, in part that was dree but
Speaker 6: also was these other factors as well.
Speaker 2: I just think the news of those premier chrismins has
Speaker 2: shown how you can say, I'm sorry, I got that wrong.
Speaker 2: I regret that I wanted to make power bills cheaper.
Speaker 2: In fact we made them more expensive because of our
Speaker 2: rush to renewables.
Speaker 1: Basil, what do you think, because this.
Speaker 2: Is definitely a vulnerability for labor during this campaign, that
Speaker 2: promise that they never kept on cost.
Speaker 14: Of living, There's no doubt about that. And I think
Speaker 14: to Joe's point, actually that digging in and trying to
Speaker 14: defend the indefensible position actually is far worse to the
Speaker 14: voting public. And then just saying yes, the gas prices
Speaker 14: have gone up electricity before the rebates has gone up,
Speaker 14: here's the reasons why. And even though that might be
Speaker 14: a touch uncomfortable, it's a much better position than trying
Speaker 14: to defend something that is clearly inaccurate. And they've dug
Speaker 14: themselves a massive hole now, and this close to the election.
Speaker 14: I'm not sure how they change tack on it, but
Speaker 14: it's hurting them. It certainly makes Bowen look bad. It
Speaker 14: doesn't help Albanesi, it doesn't help any of them.
Speaker 2: And you know, just to that point, we did see
Speaker 2: Peter Dutton on Monday come out and go I got
Speaker 2: this wrong in the working from home policy.
Speaker 1: So it can't be done, you know it. Dunn's done
Speaker 1: it. It would be done Sharry.
Speaker 14: And we're not talking about it today, are we. And
Speaker 14: that's the point. If you come out, you deal with it,
Speaker 14: as uncomfortable as it might be to have to go
Speaker 14: through that mea culpa. It's done and dusted. We're pretty
Speaker 14: forgiving in Australia. Even the journals are pretty forgiving in Australia.
Speaker 14: But by digging in they've made it worse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you cauterize the wound exactly now.
Speaker 2: Senator Nampa Jimpa Price has claimed that the Albanesi government
Speaker 2: may proceed with plans for an indigenous treaty and a
Speaker 2: Macarata truth telling commission. She says that they've been absolutely
Speaker 2: opaque incented estimates with regard to Macarata, the twenty seven
Speaker 2: million dollars that they supposedly put in a contingency and
Speaker 2: what direction they're going to take.
Speaker 1: So, Joe, what do you think is there any chance.
Speaker 6: Of there's no I mean, I can't understand just into
Speaker 6: saying that you know that they're not ruling it out
Speaker 6: or it's still possible that they might or whatever. And
Speaker 6: probably the government is not wanting to emphatically say there's
Speaker 6: no way we're ever going to do this because that
Speaker 6: would upset certain members of the left who would jump
Speaker 6: up and down and make a noise and that's obviously
Speaker 6: incredibly unhelpful in an election campaign or ever. But no,
Speaker 6: their government is doing nothing. And I know this for
Speaker 6: a fact from figures right up the very top.
Speaker 1: Once the voice.
Speaker 6: You've asked about this, once the voice, Once the voice
Speaker 6: went down, it was all about practical reconciliar actually all
Speaker 6: about service delivery, all about just getting in there, you know,
Speaker 6: cleaning up those communities, getting more money for education, getting
Speaker 6: those grog bands back in place, getting more money for
Speaker 6: housing for Indigenous people. And it's all practical stuff, now
Speaker 6: anything any of that symbolic kind of big picture history, rewriting,
Speaker 6: truth telling, apologizing. It's the furthest thing from the PM
Speaker 6: or the government's mind upon us Basil.
Speaker 2: We saw Peter Dutton speak about the failed Voice referendum
Speaker 2: in the Leader's debate and it seems like a lot
Speaker 2: of voters have forgotten about this and this was really
Speaker 2: the point where Albinezi started losing momentum and the public
Speaker 2: turned against him. But it reminds people how actually Dutton
Speaker 2: can campaign very effectively. Was a sixty to forty vote
Speaker 2: to begin with in support of the referendum.
Speaker 1: He campaigned against it and it switched. So but you know,
Speaker 1: perhaps it is.
Speaker 2: A reminder that he can be strong at campaigning. There's
Speaker 2: three weeks to go.
Speaker 1: Do we need to see a bit more of his fight?
Speaker 1: Do you think?
Speaker 14: Well, he's a good campaigner, there's no doubt about that,
Speaker 14: and he can construct and hold an argument very well.
Speaker 14: I'm not certain though that making more of the voice
Speaker 14: and referring back to the referendum would necessarily be a
Speaker 14: smart or the correct policy for Peter Dutton and the Libs.
Speaker 5: At this point.
Speaker 14: They take their win in the referendum, They've got the
Speaker 14: result that they campaign for. I think people do see
Speaker 14: the election, the general election and the referendum is quite
Speaker 14: separate issues and I think the smart play is to
Speaker 14: keep them that way.
Speaker 1: Agree. Well, let's turn to this story.
Speaker 2: Shocking revelations today around teaching standards. The Australian reports that
Speaker 2: some universities are taking students who have HC results as
Speaker 2: low as thirty nine percent.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: The report says that there's fifteen universities who are accepting
Speaker 2: students into teaching degrees with atars lower than sixty now.
Speaker 2: The Education Minister Jason Clair was asked if teachers need
Speaker 2: to be more intelligent than their students.
Speaker 1: Pretty reasonable question.
Speaker 2: Here's what he said, we'll read out his comments. He said,
Speaker 2: I think that's a given Joe. If this is his attitude,
Speaker 2: then why is a doing.
Speaker 1: Something about this? Because it is a good point.
Speaker 2: We've got children who can't read, can't write, and you know,
Speaker 2: perhaps it's because the teachers didn't even pass their HSC
Speaker 2: or VC.
Speaker 15: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think there's a couple of things. One is that
Speaker 6: teacher burnout has been so high that there's a teacher shortage,
Speaker 6: and that in course increases the chance of being burnout
Speaker 6: because the teachers that are left behind do more, and
Speaker 6: then there's a panic and think, oh my god, we've
Speaker 6: got to get more teachers, which we have right now.
Speaker 6: There's a huge teacher shortage, to the point where people
Speaker 6: are bringing teachers out of retirement back into the classroom
Speaker 6: to try and do it. Teaches a job sharing the
Speaker 6: same class, and of course the instinctive thing to do
Speaker 6: is say, all right, well, we need to lower the
Speaker 6: mark so we can get more people into teaching degrees.
Speaker 6: And in fact, as Jason clair Well knows and as
Speaker 6: he is working towards doing, it's the opposite that you do.
Speaker 6: It's not the lower mark that attracts people to teaching.
Speaker 6: It's actually teachers having respect and prestige within the community,
Speaker 6: with them actually being given the freedom to be able
Speaker 6: to teach a class with worlds best practice methods with
Speaker 6: actual scientific results instead of the latest sort of trending
Speaker 6: mumbo jumbo. So that is something that Jason Clair is
Speaker 6: doing and the Telegraph we've done big sort of features
Speaker 6: on what he's doing attracting people from other careers into teaching,
Speaker 6: making it easier to get into teaching degrees with the
Speaker 6: universey of TASMI. Obviously as a very small university, it
Speaker 6: has to attract people right to the very bottom of Australia.
Speaker 6: People have to obviously move there and so it's atars
Speaker 6: are always going to be lower than a Sydney or
Speaker 6: Melbourne university. But certainly teaching should be like, you know,
Speaker 6: like lawyers and doctors. It should be a profession that
Speaker 6: people aspire to and actually want to compete to get into.
Speaker 1: And the way to do that is or part of
Speaker 1: the way to do that is improving pay.
Speaker 2: You know, don't you think basil teachers need to be
Speaker 2: paid more. We need to have the absolute smartest, brightest,
Speaker 2: most creative people teaching our next generation.
Speaker 1: You know, we despair the fact.
Speaker 2: That there are teenagers and children who can't read and write,
Speaker 2: and this.
Speaker 1: Is why this is part of the problem.
Speaker 14: Pay them more well, talk about respect, and nothing shows
Speaker 14: that we respect our teaching staff. Right around Australia more
Speaker 14: than paying them the right amount of money to do
Speaker 14: the such important work that they do for the next
Speaker 14: generation of Australians they're shepherding them through. Now the point,
Speaker 14: i'd say, a really basic point, we have to make
Speaker 14: schools safer. We know lots of schools are perfectly safe,
Speaker 14: but we also know that violence in schools, at times
Speaker 14: directed at teachers can be very, very frightening, and it
Speaker 14: has discouraged lots of good teachers away from classrooms and
Speaker 14: the next generation potentially coming through thinking I'm not sure
Speaker 14: that's the environment we need to be in or want
Speaker 14: to be in. That has to be a priority as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good point.
Speaker 2: Now let's turn to that breaking news that I mentioned
Speaker 2: at the start of the show. The Herald Sun has
Speaker 2: revealed that a Brisbane IVF clinic has apologized after it
Speaker 2: implanted the wrong embryo in a woman. Now, the mother
Speaker 2: at the center of this bungle gave birth to a
Speaker 2: stranger's baby. This baby, it was believed to have been
Speaker 2: born last year. It was reportedly human error. Now, the
Speaker 2: monash IVF Chief executive set in a statement on behalf
Speaker 2: of Monash IVF, I want to say how truly sorry,
Speaker 2: I am for what has happened. All of us that
Speaker 2: Monish monash ivf are devastated and we apologize.
Speaker 1: To everyone involved.
Speaker 2: We will continue to support the patients through this extremely
Speaker 2: distressing time. So that's an extraordinary embryo mix up where
Speaker 2: a mother believed to be in Brisbane has given birth
Speaker 2: to a stranger's baby. Extraordinary, Joe. And it would be
Speaker 2: such a difficult dilemma as well.
Speaker 6: I mean, you've had that emotionally, it would just absolutely
Speaker 6: screw with you so much. Can you just I mean,
Speaker 6: I can't even imagine but being a woman and giving
Speaker 6: birth to something you think is your own flesh and
Speaker 6: blood and then seeing some I mean, I'm I mean
Speaker 6: of course I would probably say you would care for
Speaker 6: the baby, and you'd want to keep it and try it,
Speaker 6: raised it as your own best. I mean, it's just
Speaker 6: so mind blow I mean, my eldest son is you know,
Speaker 6: he's hit every branch on the way down in terms
Speaker 6: of health, had all sorts of health. Indend, he climbs,
Speaker 6: he's fallen off, cut his head over and everything. So
Speaker 6: we're in and out of hospitals all the time. They
Speaker 6: don't even give you a panadol without checking your name
Speaker 6: and your date of birth. I cannot, for the life
Speaker 6: of me figure out how this mistake was made.
Speaker 2: There's so much more we don't know about this story,
Speaker 2: understandably for privacy reasons, Basil, But you know, I would
Speaker 2: expect the mother would still love that baby, you'd assume,
Speaker 2: even though it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Her genetic material.
Speaker 2: But then could there be a legal battle from the
Speaker 2: person who's embryo. It actually is so I mean, there's
Speaker 2: just it's just a minefield.
Speaker 14: It's so incredibly challenging for all of the people involved,
Speaker 14: notwithstanding the staff and the complications there with mine ash
Speaker 14: and we understand that, or the mother who has carried
Speaker 14: that baby for nine months and then now to have
Speaker 14: to go through the mental dilemma, not even a dilemma,
Speaker 14: but just the total conundrum in her mind and the
Speaker 14: family's minds of how do I feel now about this
Speaker 14: person knowing what I know now? And I mean, you
Speaker 14: just feel so desperately that these people have been put
Speaker 14: in that situation. Is it is such a confronting challenge,
Speaker 14: and how you work your way through it is just
Speaker 14: so difficult. You just do not know where to begin.
Speaker 14: That mental process, So.
Speaker 2: You'd think an apology would not be good enough. There'd
Speaker 2: probably have to be some compensation in here as well.
Speaker 2: And by the way, the error was reportedly discovered when
Speaker 2: the birth parents requested the transfer of their remaining embryos
Speaker 2: to another IVF clinic. So major drama, all right, Basil Zemblas.
Speaker 1: Joe Hudebrand, very right, Joe.
Speaker 2: Now let's turn out to the tariff retreat that has
Speaker 2: the whole world talking. This has been a monumental u
Speaker 2: turn from Donald Trump. He has pressed the ninety dight
Speaker 2: pause button on his tariffs, but they will now still
Speaker 2: be a base ten percent tariff. Here was the President
Speaker 2: rationalizing this shock move.
Speaker 7: Somebody had to do what we did, and I did
Speaker 7: a ninety day pause for the people that didn't retaliate
Speaker 7: because they told him, if you retaliate.
Speaker 1: We're going to double it.
Speaker 7: And that's what I did with China.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: So, as he says, China will still have the full
Speaker 2: weight of the tariffs.
Speaker 5: As I told everyone a week ago there in this
Speaker 5: very spot, do not retaliate and you will be rewarded.
Speaker 5: So every country in the world who wants to come
Speaker 5: and negotiate, we are willing to hear you. We're going
Speaker 5: to go down to a ten percent baseline tariff there
Speaker 5: for them and China will be raised to one twenty
Speaker 5: five due to their insistence on s.
Speaker 2: That's of course US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessont there. Well,
Speaker 2: let's bring you now, Institute of Public Affairs Chief Economists
Speaker 2: Adam Crichton.
Speaker 1: Adam, great to see you, as always.
Speaker 2: Look, this has been the most roller coaster of a
Speaker 2: two week period on these tariffs. Donald Trump did tell
Speaker 2: reporters that he pulled back on these tariffs because people
Speaker 2: were quote yippie and afraid of the stock market volatility.
Speaker 1: Is this his logic here? What's happened behind the scenes?
Speaker 16: Well, look, certainly Donald trump supporters think it's the art
Speaker 16: of the deal, and his critics think that it's the
Speaker 16: art of the deal, But no one really knows here,
Speaker 16: you know, what the actual reasoning was behind the scenes.
Speaker 16: But look, certainly I think Trump is you know, is
Speaker 16: coming out of it reasonably. Well, so far, he's got
Speaker 16: this ten percent tariff flow so far, which is applying
Speaker 16: to all imports.
Speaker 1: Into the US.
Speaker 16: That's about three hundred and eighty billion dollars a year
Speaker 16: of extra revenue, which the un US can sorely need,
Speaker 16: of course, given the two trillion dollar annual budget deficit.
Speaker 1: That it has.
Speaker 16: So yeah, so I think it's going fairly fairly.
Speaker 2: Well for him, fairly well for him. Certainly not in
Speaker 2: the media. Would Elon Musk have played into this. Well,
Speaker 2: not in the media, but this, yeah, continue, so gone, continue.
Speaker 16: So much focus on the stop No, there's so much noll.
Speaker 16: There's so much focus on the stock market. But really
Speaker 16: there's too much focus on the stock market. I would
Speaker 16: say it's not really a good indication of the real economy.
Speaker 16: You know, what matters for Trump and his supporters is
Speaker 16: that jobs are brought back to the US. Now it
Speaker 16: remains have you seen whether these tariffs are the solution
Speaker 16: to that? But we have to give it a chance
Speaker 16: to work.
Speaker 2: I would say, I'll get to some of the unintended
Speaker 2: consequences in the moment, the issue with the debt market.
Speaker 1: But first I want to ask you about Elon Musk.
Speaker 2: We saw he came out publicly against Trump's trade advisor,
Speaker 2: Pete Navarro, said very public.
Speaker 1: Insults about him. So clearly Elon Musk was against the tariffs.
Speaker 2: Now you'd have to say that Donald Trump is ultimately
Speaker 2: against tariff's as well. He was trying to get the
Speaker 2: base down to no tariffs on both sides. But do
Speaker 2: you think Elon Musk's push also Trump donors like Bill Ackman,
Speaker 2: he said there should be a ninety day pause. Would
Speaker 2: these sort of figures have influenced the president's thinking.
Speaker 16: Well, I think one of the things that's come out
Speaker 16: of all this is that Trump is not in the
Speaker 16: pocket of Wall Street. That's how he's caricatured all the
Speaker 16: time by the left. But of course for the last
Speaker 16: the last fortnight, it's been chaos on Wall Street. It's
Speaker 16: been chaos for stock investors. I mean, he's smashed their returns.
Speaker 16: They're still down by seven or eight percent, even though
Speaker 16: there's been a recent rebound. So I think it's you know,
Speaker 16: it's smashed that there was obviously disagreement amongst his supporters
Speaker 16: Elon Musk on the one side, Peter Navarro on the
Speaker 16: other side. But I think it's healthy that all of
Speaker 16: these debates are out in the open and that people
Speaker 16: can see them. I mean, it seems Trump's crosshair are
Speaker 16: still very much on China. The trade deficit with China
Speaker 16: has fallen quite a bit.
Speaker 1: By the way, it was four.
Speaker 16: Hundred and twenty billion dollars roughly in twenty eighteen. It's
Speaker 16: something like two hundred and sixty billion dollars now. And
Speaker 16: the tariffs still remain on China. I think, you know,
Speaker 16: more than one hundred and twenty percent, you know, which
Speaker 16: is highly disruptive and is probably going to lead two
Speaker 16: imports into the US from third countries.
Speaker 2: I would say, so, I want to return to this
Speaker 2: issue with the debt bonds because there's been so much
Speaker 2: focused on market volatility and yep, it's still down. But
Speaker 2: the reality is markets do go up and down. They
Speaker 2: react to news that are panicked investors. But this issue
Speaker 2: with the debt bonds is far more serious. Can you
Speaker 2: tell me about how that could play out for the
Speaker 2: US with China?
Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly.
Speaker 16: The bond markets have been just as volatile as the
Speaker 16: stock markets, even though they don't get as much attention
Speaker 16: in the press. I mean, it's interesting in recent in
Speaker 16: recent days, the US government ten year bond yield's been
Speaker 16: even higher than Australia's I think about four point five
Speaker 16: by four point three. The concern here is that China
Speaker 16: is a big holder, relatively large holder of US government debt,
Speaker 16: and that in a fit of peak or anger, it
Speaker 16: may decide to sell some of those bonds, which of
Speaker 16: course would put up their ten year bond yield. But
Speaker 16: the reality is, if you look at the actual ownership,
Speaker 16: I think, and this is my view, China simply doesn't
Speaker 16: own enough to be a huge problem for the US.
Speaker 16: It owns about ten percent of the outstanding stock of
Speaker 16: US bonds that are held by foreigners and two percent
Speaker 16: of the actual total. So I think it's very unlikely
Speaker 16: that China will sell, you know, will suddenly try to
Speaker 16: sell it's US government bonds because of course it itself
Speaker 16: would make capital losses very significant, very significant capital losses,
Speaker 16: and it is the most liquid asset in the world.
Speaker 16: So look, there is a concern that foreigners could dump
Speaker 16: US government bonds, and of course the US government is
Speaker 16: extremely susceptible to that because it has thirty six trillion
Speaker 16: dollars of debt. It's borrowing about two trillion dollars every
Speaker 16: single year, so it is susceptible.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that.
Speaker 16: China is going to well, we'll press the big red
Speaker 16: button on that.
Speaker 17: Well.
Speaker 2: Another economist I spoke to off air last night, Warren
Speaker 2: Hogan was worried about this and said it could impact
Speaker 2: on US continuing to meet its debt repayments. But anyway,
Speaker 2: I guess we'll see how that plays out.
Speaker 16: Cold who knows, No one knows what's happening. No one
Speaker 16: knows what's happening.
Speaker 1: Adam Crichton, love having you on as always, Thanks for
Speaker 1: your time. Now still to come.
Speaker 2: Ted O'Brian doesn't rule out ditching the Paris Climate Agreement
Speaker 2: in today's debate, and then he later says that the
Speaker 2: L and P is.
Speaker 1: Committed to the target.
Speaker 2: Well is the Prime Minister planning to weaponize this? Plus
Speaker 2: Howard Dutton handle Trump and the tariffs? His shadow Trade
Speaker 2: minister will tell us next.
Speaker 1: Welcome back.
Speaker 2: Well, the issue now is that China is trying to
Speaker 2: step in to fill the potential void left by the US.
Speaker 2: And the question is how will Albin Easy respond to
Speaker 2: China's offer today to hold hands with Australia amid the
Speaker 2: Trump's tariff agenda? Will Alban Easy dodge the invite?
Speaker 1: Have a look?
Speaker 5: We will speak for ourselves.
Speaker 12: The US administration changes its position on a regular basis.
Speaker 12: That is why you have to be an adult, not
Speaker 12: have dial it up to eleven at every opportunity, which
Speaker 12: is what Peter Dutton's plan is on everything, and just
Speaker 12: to say first thing that comes into your head and
Speaker 12: then pretend that you haven't said it and wind it back.
Speaker 2: And Shadow Trade Minister Kevin Hogan joins us now from Lismo,
Speaker 2: good to see you, Thanks for your time.
Speaker 18: Good to see you, Shary.
Speaker 1: Now, how would.
Speaker 2: You be responding to this invitation from China?
Speaker 18: Well, Shary, we obviously have a very comp elementary relationship
Speaker 18: with China. They are our biggest export market. We sold
Speaker 18: over two hundred billion dollars worth of goods and services to.
Speaker 5: Them just last year.
Speaker 18: So we compliment each other what they want we have.
Speaker 18: So that's been a good relationship for them, and it's
Speaker 18: been a good relationship for us. But very importantly, we
Speaker 18: have a very close relationship with the United States and
Speaker 18: a very important national security relationship with the United States.
Speaker 18: And I've said previously that I think Orcus will outlive
Speaker 18: Trump's presidency, that will outlive Kersteiner's Prime ministership and our
Speaker 18: Benez's prime ministership. So this isn't about holding hands with anyone.
Speaker 18: We have a trading relationship with China. That is a
Speaker 18: complimentary one, and we have a very important national security
Speaker 18: and economic relationship with the United States as well.
Speaker 2: You say China has been good to us and there's
Speaker 2: been a complementary relationship, Well that wasn't the case just
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. I mean during the COVID pandemic,
Speaker 2: China imposed egregious tariffs and even trade bands on Australia.
Speaker 18: Yeah, complementary relationship, but yes, hasn't always been a good relationship.
Speaker 18: They banned a lot of products to us, which we
Speaker 18: think was egregious. We as you know, when we were
Speaker 18: in government, we took wto action against China for some
Speaker 18: of those bands or some of those tarots that put
Speaker 18: on products. So that was resolved. So, look, we've had
Speaker 18: a complementary relationship, that's what we've had. That's obviously been
Speaker 18: good for both countries. But certainly there's been issues there
Speaker 18: as well as we're having an issue now with the
Speaker 18: United States, which as friends sometimes do we need to
Speaker 18: talk through with the United States.
Speaker 2: So are you concerned that we are seeing adversaries like
Speaker 2: China try and take advantage of the Trump chaos.
Speaker 18: Well, look, China will do what they will with their neighbors,
Speaker 18: with their relationships with you know, all their neighbors and
Speaker 18: all people that they are around. But look, this for
Speaker 18: US isn't about doing one thing with one and one
Speaker 18: thing with another. We have a complementary relationship with China
Speaker 18: that has been a good trading relationship in the sense
Speaker 18: good for our exporters. But our relationship with the United
Speaker 18: States is a very important one, Charia, as you know,
Speaker 18: a national security and economically orcas is I think the
Speaker 18: primary thing of importance to us to keep our people safe.
Speaker 18: And as I said, I hope, I'm sure that it
Speaker 18: will outlive Trump's presidency, Albernieze's prime ministership and Steiner's Prime
Speaker 18: ministership in the UK.
Speaker 2: Do you think Donald Trump was right to pause for
Speaker 2: ninety days his tariffs.
Speaker 5: Look, I'm glad he did.
Speaker 18: I think the tariffs are a bad idea and bad policy.
Speaker 18: I think it's inflationary for the US consumer, puts the
Speaker 18: price of things up, and I think it could do
Speaker 18: great damage to world growth. And if there's a trade
Speaker 18: war like we're seen a bit between China and the
Speaker 18: US now, I don't think.
Speaker 6: That's good for growth.
Speaker 18: We're a big exporting nation. We sold six hundred and
Speaker 18: fifty billion dollars worth of stuff overseas last year, and
Speaker 18: that depends on good global growth, so we don't want
Speaker 18: to see that retract. So I was happy to see
Speaker 18: the poor and hopefully these are more. You know, you
Speaker 18: hear different reports out of the States that these transactional.
Speaker 18: Did he do this to get leverage in other areas?
Speaker 5: We'll wait and see.
Speaker 18: I hope that's what it is to ask you to
Speaker 18: get removed.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about that because one thing
Speaker 2: that he has put in the agenda also other members
Speaker 2: of his team, is the bound on American beef that
Speaker 2: Australia has in place. Yes, we've got it in place
Speaker 2: for biosecurity reasons, but his team.
Speaker 1: Say that that's fake.
Speaker 2: They literally use that word fake in Senate hearings this week.
Speaker 2: Do you think we should be revisiting those bands? Seeing
Speaker 2: as it has been a long time since there was
Speaker 2: any mad.
Speaker 1: Cow disease in the United States?
Speaker 2: The burgers are safe to eat when you're in the
Speaker 2: United States, as many Australians know.
Speaker 18: Well, look, showy, what I wouldn't say is that we
Speaker 18: should change our bias. This is bias biosecurity as you know,
Speaker 18: it's mad cow disease that they had now quite a
Speaker 18: while ago. What I don't think we should change is
Speaker 18: our biosecurity protocols. But as part of those protocols we
Speaker 18: we've is it this all the time anyway in the
Speaker 18: normal course of business, So the Department of Ag will
Speaker 18: go through a process and regularly review it to see
Speaker 18: if the band should stay in place. So it's not
Speaker 18: this band isn't in place forever, but it will be
Speaker 18: removed when the protocols our biosecurity rules say we should
Speaker 18: lift the ban. So I think we stay with the
Speaker 18: biosecurity rules we have and not change them. And there
Speaker 18: may be one day where they say lift the ban.
Speaker 2: This is one of the things that the Trump administration
Speaker 2: has put on the table that they'd like to see
Speaker 2: Australia lift that ban.
Speaker 1: There is no mad cow disease.
Speaker 2: So should that be something that the Australian government sits
Speaker 2: down and negotiates.
Speaker 18: Well, I don't think it should be something that we
Speaker 18: negotiate as part of this deal. And I don't think
Speaker 18: we should say we're going to lift the ban on
Speaker 18: your beef to get a deal. I don't think we
Speaker 18: should say that. No, But I think we just keep
Speaker 18: our biosecurity rules in place. They're there for a reason,
Speaker 18: and we adhere to what our biosecurity protocols tell us
Speaker 18: to do and not change them.
Speaker 2: All right, Kevin Hogan, appreciate your time, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Now still to come the liberal candidate trying to unseat
Speaker 2: Josh Burns in the Victorian seat of Macnamara.
Speaker 1: Why he's now in with the chance.
Speaker 2: Plus revelations that Labour six hundred billion dollar figure came
Speaker 2: from an activist group.
Speaker 1: That's next. Welcome back.
Speaker 2: Well, let's return to the energy debate between Chris Bowen
Speaker 2: and Ted O'Brien today. Now, for weeks, Labour has claimed
Speaker 2: that the coalition's nuclear energy plan will cost six hundred
Speaker 2: billion dollars, but they haven't said where that figure comes from. Well,
Speaker 2: Chris Bowen was finally pressed on this today.
Speaker 13: Six hundred billion dollars is the figure you've quoted a lot.
Speaker 13: The CSIO on next Gen report found the costs of
Speaker 13: nuclear just the actual building cost would actually be one
Speaker 13: hundred and sixteen billion. Isn't that a better authority to
Speaker 13: use than the Lobby Group's Smart Energy Council which is
Speaker 13: thrown up up to six hundred billion, not six hundred bill,
Speaker 13: but up to what Tom.
Speaker 4: I don't agree with respect the premise of the way
Speaker 4: you've asked the question, because absolutely the CSIRO should be
Speaker 4: the organization we listened to mister a Brien claims they've
Speaker 4: used the CSI roh is.
Speaker 5: That's not true.
Speaker 1: It's just not right.
Speaker 2: And then Chris Bowen refused to say how much Labour's
Speaker 2: own plan would cost.
Speaker 19: That wasn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't interrupt your question.
Speaker 1: Well it was my.
Speaker 20: Question, so I will interrupt you. We're not after the NPV.
Speaker 20: No one here walks into a shop and says, oh,
Speaker 20: how much is the bottle of milk? And you know
Speaker 20: the shopkeeper says, or do you want an MPV on that? No,
Speaker 20: I just tell us how much it costs? So how
Speaker 20: much is it going to cost?
Speaker 4: You can dismiss the way that AEMO says is the
Speaker 4: most accurate way of describing it. I choose criticizing the
Speaker 4: way you're describing it because your avoid your question.
Speaker 1: Unbearable.
Speaker 2: Well to discuss, let's bring in The Australian's Environment editor Graham.
Speaker 1: Lloyd Graham, good to see you. Well, So how credible.
Speaker 2: Is this figure the six hundred billion supposed cost of
Speaker 2: the coalition's nuclear policy, Well.
Speaker 19: Good Edny Schari. It was quite a revelation in the
Speaker 19: debate there that this figure has come from the Smart
Speaker 19: Energy Council, which is unashamably a lobby group for the
Speaker 19: renewable energy industry. There's obviously a big range of cost
Speaker 19: things that can be applied, but the csiro O report
Speaker 19: is one hundred and sixteen billion dollars. The coalition was saying,
Speaker 19: look about one hundred and fifty billion dollars, so way
Speaker 19: different to the six hundred and it's fascinating to see
Speaker 19: how that figure of six hundred was arrived at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is interesting, but in the end it
Speaker 2: almost doesn't matter because Albanize is using it all the time.
Speaker 2: We heard in the leader's debate on Tuesday night here
Speaker 2: kept saying that Dutton was planning secret cuts to fund
Speaker 2: the six hundred billion dollar nuclear plan. So again, you know,
Speaker 2: you repeat it often enough and it's to become reality.
Speaker 19: Well, that's certainly how this is being played, that the
Speaker 19: six hundred billion has been constantly rolled out as the
Speaker 19: cost of the coalition's plan. So I think it is
Speaker 19: really important that the truth behind where that figure comes
Speaker 19: from is widely understood and that process is really started,
Speaker 19: I think today.
Speaker 2: Look, another key moment today was when Tet O'Brien didn't
Speaker 2: really rule out the coalition ditching the Paris climate target.
Speaker 20: Here he was, we want to ensure that we are
Speaker 20: growing this country, not decarbonizing it is good. Deindustrializing it
Speaker 20: like labor is bad. Once we've done that analysis, then
Speaker 20: we'll be making decisions along the lines that you pose.
Speaker 20: So I won't be pre empty today, with all due
Speaker 20: respect that hypothetical.
Speaker 18: You're prepared, all of those things considered that if it
Speaker 18: is in the national interest to potentially leave Paris, I can.
Speaker 20: Commit that we will always act in the national interest
Speaker 20: and we'll be upfront with the Australian people.
Speaker 1: Graham kind of an odd response.
Speaker 2: He then had to issue a statement clearing this up afterwards.
Speaker 19: That's right. This is quite an encendry area and it
Speaker 19: will be interesting to see how it's received. If this
Speaker 19: had come up in the last federal election campaign, you
Speaker 19: would expect there would be a huge outcry from around
Speaker 19: the place. I suspect that the outcry will be slightly
Speaker 19: more muted this time, because there's a much better understanding
Speaker 19: of how difficult this all is. And if you look
Speaker 19: at the coalition's approach. We saw it from Queensland with
Speaker 19: the LMP this week and Ted O'Brien was indicating the
Speaker 19: same things that it's time for a stock take to
Speaker 19: see how our ambitions match with the reality. And it's
Speaker 19: no good just going along with huge ambitions and figures
Speaker 19: if they can't be met, and so the process of
Speaker 19: a stock take. And then I think the twenty three
Speaker 19: five figure is the one that's the most sort of
Speaker 19: key at the moment. The twenty fifty figure of net
Speaker 19: zero by twenty fifty. I think they're still bipartisan support
Speaker 19: for that because it's a long way away, but the
Speaker 19: closer targets there's a lot more difficulty in actually justifying
Speaker 19: whether you're going to meet them or not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just amazing.
Speaker 2: I mean it's just the space of three years and
Speaker 2: yet barely anyone, even the Teals, are not mentioning climate
Speaker 2: change this election.
Speaker 1: They campaigned on it heavily last time and.
Speaker 2: Again you know you mentioned Labour's twenty thirty five targets.
Speaker 1: How can they get.
Speaker 2: Away with not saying they're twenty thirty five targets, it's
Speaker 2: in ten years time, yet they haven't put that forward. Look,
Speaker 2: I just want to ask you to end off about
Speaker 2: the gas reservation, the East Coast gas reservation. It seems
Speaker 2: like the leftist media, including the ABC, just a fighting
Speaker 2: tooth and nail against this, having a lot of activists
Speaker 2: on their programs who don't support it. Why would they
Speaker 2: be against more gas into the market.
Speaker 19: Well, it's an article of faith for a lot of
Speaker 19: people on the left to not let more gas into
Speaker 19: the system because that will push out of renewables and things,
Speaker 19: which is really a misreading of how this transition is
Speaker 19: going to work into the future. But there's you know,
Speaker 19: the one thing you can say about the gas reservation
Speaker 19: policy is as a sort of a slogan gas reservation
Speaker 19: that works pretty well. It's when you get to the
Speaker 19: details it's more difficult. I think the coalition has some
Speaker 19: pushback from the industry from everywhere in terms of how
Speaker 19: it's going to do this. But the most important thing
Speaker 19: is to get more gas into the system. And if
Speaker 19: the companies have to really agree to cop something on
Speaker 19: their existing production, they need to work out a way
Speaker 19: to develop new fields that with enough incentive for the
Speaker 19: companies to make it worth their while to do so.
Speaker 1: Indeed, all right, Grahame Lloyd, great to have you on.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Now after the break, as Jewish Labor MP Josh Burns
Speaker 2: fights alban Easy to allow him not to preference the Greens, well,
Speaker 2: it seems the Liberals may be in with a chance
Speaker 2: in this critical Victorian seat.
Speaker 1: I'll speak with a coalition candidate next.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 2: The last thing that Jewish Labor politician Josh Burns wants
Speaker 2: to do is preference the Greens in his seat of McNamara,
Speaker 2: but it seems he hasn't been able to get permission
Speaker 2: from Alban Easy all Labor headquarters so far.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: The Australian has reported on a leaked audio recording where
Speaker 2: Josh Burns tells Waiders to give him time and to
Speaker 2: watch this space when asked if he deny preferences to
Speaker 2: the Greens.
Speaker 1: We'll joining me now.
Speaker 2: Is the Liberal candidate up against Josh Burns in McNamara,
Speaker 2: Benson Salo Benson.
Speaker 1: Good to have you on the show. Now, this is
Speaker 1: an unusual seat.
Speaker 2: That you're running in from a demographics pace, because yes,
Speaker 2: there's a large Jewish population but also many Greens voters.
Speaker 1: So how do you deal with this when you're campaigning?
Speaker 15: Well, thanks so much Harry for having me on, and
Speaker 15: our team has been out since July knocking on doors,
Speaker 15: meeting with people at the shops and understanding what are
Speaker 15: the key issues impacting people and right now across McNamara,
Speaker 15: cost of living is the number one issue that's really
Speaker 15: impacting household budgets. It's impacting businesses right across the electorate.
Speaker 15: And the second one, which most people would consider it
Speaker 15: being a state issue, is really crime and community safety.
Speaker 15: But a part of that is also anti Semitism, which
Speaker 15: we've seen rear its ugly heads since October seventh here
Speaker 15: in Australia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have.
Speaker 2: Indeed now preferences with the Greens has become quite a
Speaker 2: big issue in Macnamara and Benson last night at the
Speaker 2: community forum you were at with Josh Burns, he was
Speaker 2: asked about whether he'd preferenced the Greens last Here's what
Speaker 2: he had to say.
Speaker 17: I really like Benson, is ay, but he's not the
Speaker 17: person I'm worried about winning this seat. The only people
Speaker 17: who can win this seat and me.
Speaker 1: Or the Greens.
Speaker 17: And if the Greens form into the top two, then
Speaker 17: you think about the people who make up this electorate,
Speaker 17: a young progressive people from Ellwood, from Sint Kilda, from
Speaker 17: Winsor from South Melbourne, from South Bank.
Speaker 5: Now we are a proud and.
Speaker 17: Large Jewish community, but we're only ten percent of the
Speaker 17: electorate of McNamara.
Speaker 1: So, Benson, what's your response to what Josh said?
Speaker 2: Do you think we are looking at a Greens MP
Speaker 2: winning McNamara here?
Speaker 15: Well, the only way that a Greens MP can win
Speaker 15: you if the Jewish community and the broader community vote
Speaker 15: for a party that actually is preferencing the Greens. And
Speaker 15: that party right now is Labor. And at that forum
Speaker 15: and there was over four hundred people, they're eagerly waiting
Speaker 15: on Josh Burns to confirm that he was not going
Speaker 15: to preference the Greens, and unfortunately he has been, like
Speaker 15: he has been over the last eighteen months, noncommittal to
Speaker 15: actually preferencing the Greens last and actively calling out their
Speaker 15: open and active anti semitism that we've seen continuously being
Speaker 15: shared right across the community. So it continues to ask
Speaker 15: the question. The community continues to ask the question, will
Speaker 15: Josh show leadership within his own party and push back
Speaker 15: against Albert Ezi, and push back against Benny Wong, and
Speaker 15: push back against other leaders within his own party, to
Speaker 15: stand up for his community and to put this the
Speaker 15: concerning and anti Semitic and divisive Greens last.
Speaker 2: And it seems we don't, you know, we don't know
Speaker 2: where this is going to land. But it seems at
Speaker 2: this point he hasn't been allowed to put the Greens last.
Speaker 2: He's also been in a very difficult position.
Speaker 1: Josh Burns.
Speaker 2: He's Jewish, he supports Israel, but he's sitting within.
Speaker 1: The Albanese government.
Speaker 2: Do you think he's done enough to defend the Jewish
Speaker 2: community and fight back against the Albanese government's hostility towards Israel.
Speaker 15: Look, Josh's is an important voice within Labor, but unfortunately,
Speaker 15: what we've seen is that Labor has actively abandoned and
Speaker 15: walked away from the Jewish community. We've seen that at
Speaker 15: the un we've seen that federally, We've seen this playing
Speaker 15: out on our streets and across our university campuses. And so,
Speaker 15: while I do applaud Josh Burns's efforts internally, clearly he
Speaker 15: doesn't have the ear of the Prime Minister in highlighting
Speaker 15: the impacts of anti Semitism. And now when I speak
Speaker 15: to the community, they are disappointed, they're frustrated, but also
Speaker 15: they're scared. They're they're they're scared of what the future
Speaker 15: for their children and their community look like. When we
Speaker 15: are seeing unchecked hate speech and anti semitism across across
Speaker 15: Melbourne CBD, across Jewish schools in Melbourne and across the
Speaker 15: community more broadly, so the community is eagerly waiting on
Speaker 15: Josh to to show leadership, to push back and to
Speaker 15: put the Greens last.
Speaker 2: It's actually worth pointing out that there still haven't been
Speaker 2: any arrests made for the perpetrators behind the Adas Synagogue
Speaker 2: fire bombing. I mean that's been months now and yet
Speaker 2: no arrests at all by Victorian police. New Southwalans police
Speaker 2: have been very active. They've arrested at least more than
Speaker 2: fourteen people for a spate of different incidents, but we
Speaker 2: haven't seen those arrests from Victorian police yet. Are the
Speaker 2: incidents in Victoria as well outstanding. So look, we hope
Speaker 2: that we will see those soon. But at this point
Speaker 2: you can understand why the community is living in fear,
Speaker 2: not just the Jewish community, but as you say, that
Speaker 2: crime wave across Melbourne is affecting so many Melbournians.
Speaker 1: Benson Sallow. Great to meet you on the show and
Speaker 1: have you on. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 15: Thank you very much, Sherry.
Speaker 2: Now it's Eastern next week. Of course, the East the show,
Speaker 2: I'm told opens tomorrow. I love the East of the show,
Speaker 2: but it's also passover this weekend, so I want to
Speaker 2: wish all of our Jewish viewers at Kagsa Meyer for
Speaker 2: this weekend. I've been making mutter balls with my ninety
Speaker 2: one year old grandmother Yaya this week, so it'll be
Speaker 2: a great say to now. I'll see you on Monday
Speaker 2: at eight. But right now, here's Paul Murray in the
Speaker 2: man Cave.