WEBVTT - Sharri | 10 April 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:03.080 Live on Sky News. 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:10.440 This is Sharry Good Evening Tonight, Peter Dutton calls Albanezi 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.640 a liar as yet another minister declines to apologize for 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:18.200 the two hundred and seventy five dollar energy bill. Broken promise, 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.760 we'll get stuck in in a moment and breaking news tonight, 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:26.520 a formal apology over a Brisbane mother's delivery of a 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:31.360 stranger's baby in a major IVF bungle. Those details coming up. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.560 Plus we'll get the inside story behind Donald Trump's tariff reversal. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:37.720 That's with Adam Crichton shortly. 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:41.080 And we'll hear the coalition plan to reverse the tariffs 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.680 if they win office. I'll speak with Shadow Trade Minister 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:49.199 Kevin Hogan, but first tonight, Peter Dutton has accused the 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:53.200 Albanese government of lying, a downing accusation that comes as 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:58.080 ministers refuse to apologize for promising power bills would be 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.400 two hundred and seventy five dollars less and ag you 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.880 minace that. Chris Bowen today was the latest who refused 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:09.480 to concede that energy prices had risen under his watch. Instead, 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.759 he attacked the journalist who asked the question, deriding him 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:18.120 for supposedly having strong opinions, and even for appearing on 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.720 Sky News in the evening God forbid. Here was the 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:26.440 very sensible question Chris Bowen was asked, a question he 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:28.640 should have been expecting this campaign. 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.039 Chris Bowen. In December twenty twenty one, you commissioned modeling 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.199 which showed and you pledged that you would drop power 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.280 prices by now by two hundred and seventy five dollars 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:43.840 for residential homes. You committed to it again in April 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.360 twenty twenty two, when you were told that modeling was flawed. 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:49.960 You continued to commit to it. In twenty twenty three 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:52.880 and twenty twenty four, even though electricity prices were rising. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.720 You continued to be committed to it when you started 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.720 subsidizing power bills. And now this year, as subsidies now 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.160 through a new record and they're going through to the 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.040 end of the year, you're spending billions of dollars on that. 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:09.000 You are now claiming that electricity price falls due to 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:13.680 subsidies are a fall in an electricity bill. Now, electricity 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.000 prices are rising, aren't they, Minister. That's written into a 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.320 level every electricity bill, isn't it Minister. And if you 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:25.080 can't admit that simple fact here today, why should anyone 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:26.920 believe anything that you say? 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.240 An excellent question from Chris Hillman, but of course Chris 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.840 Bowen refused to admit the obvious fact that power prices 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:38.160 are rising. 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.760 You've got strongers about these matters, which you express on 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.400 Sky News in the Evenings, and that's your right. I 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.480 disagree with the way that you look at these matters. 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.880 I disagree with the approach that you take. It's disingenuous 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:53.040 and dishonest of you to blame all this so renewable 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.799 energy as you do on Sky in the Evenings. It's 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:57.960 just not right, sir, It's just not fair. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:04.240 Accuses the journalist Chris Hilman of being disingenuous. But isn't 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:08.120 he being disingenuous when he indicates that any price rises 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:13.239 are because of global factors, not because he's deliberately repositioned 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.600 the energy market and rushed the transition to rely on 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:18.320 more renewables. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.080 And have less cheap, reliable energy. 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.280 And what about the way he has to say on 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.799 Sky in the Evenings is which. 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.440 You express on Sky News in the Evenings, and that's 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.280 your right, as you do on Sky in the evenings. 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.360 It's just not right, sir, which you express on Sky. 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:36.320 Your premise. 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.200 As if it's a criticism to be on Sky News. 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:45.240 Orman as a former ABC and nine political editor, and 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.760 he didn't let Chris Bowen get away with slurs instead 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.360 of actually answering the question. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:57.120 Have electricity prices risen on your watch? The exact opposite 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:58.600 of what you pledged? 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.320 Have that we have denied. We have never denied that 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.720 energy prices are higher than we would like. That's why 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.880 we've delivered three rounds of energy to be relief bill relief satage. 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:12.320 You wrote, electricity prices have fallen. That's not true, is it? 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:12.600 Well? 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:14.480 The fact of the matter is, if you look at 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:18.320 the recent data, Australia's had the lowest energy inflation in 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.000 the world. You know, because you might deny that, and 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:23.120 I know you deny several things. 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:23.719 Reason for it? 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.800 What is the reason for mister. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.960 You when you're ask you a question or are your debating, it's. 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.080 Just that you are completely avoiding it, as you always do. 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:30.760 We get a blast. 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.559 I know you're a man of strong us on these matters, 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.880 and I said, I've always had respect for you, but 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.560 I have a fundamentally different view to the one that 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:40.000 you have developed in recent years. 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.719 It's truly so absurd how each member of the alban 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.800 Eazy government can stand up there and can claim that 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:53.039 energy prices aren't rising after they promised some ninety seven 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.279 times that they'd fall by two hundred. 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:57.560 And seventy five dollars or more. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:02.040 Reducing the cost of living was Anthony Albanese's central attack 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:06.159 line against Scott Morrison, when at the time there'd only 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:10.200 been one interest rate rise. But as you know Albanez, 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.680 he blamed Morrison for that single rate rise, yet then 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:17.960 took no responsibility for the subsequent twelve under his watch. 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:23.160 It's utterly preposterous to try and explain away the central 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.919 broken promise on cost of living. It's like they're trying 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:31.040 to claim black is white, and voters can see through 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.800 this deception. Chris Bowen would have more integrity today if 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.760 he just stood up there and apologized for getting it wrong, 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:42.400 for making a promise he was never going to be 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.279 able to keep a promise he shouldn't have made. 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.120 Instead, he tries to come up with. 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:54.920 Excuses, including attacking the journalist, and so questions around accountability 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:59.839 will keep coming we'll keep following him. And it was 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:02.880 a question on the two hundred and seventy five dollars 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:07.600 broken promise that even the unimpeachably objective and politically neutral 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:13.360 Ross Greenwood asked of the Treasurer last night twice, will. 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.520 You apologize to the people of Australia tonight for having 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.840 your government having said that energy prices would come down 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:21.640 by two hundred and seventy five dollars. 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.200 I take responsibility for all of the decisions that we've 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.040 taken in our budget, so you will apologize, including let 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:28.520 me finish. 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:30.200 Will you look down the battle of the camera and 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.640 apologize for that? Because is that something you should do, 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.240 because again, that was a promise, it was not fulfilled. 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:37.600 Well, the two hundred and seventy five figure that you're 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.520 referring to from the modeling in twenty twenty one predated 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.480 two important developments and. 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:48.120 When Alberizi has been asked this question, no apology either. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.040 This gives credence to accusations that alber Ezi is not 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.679 being upfront with the Australian people, not on power bills 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.200 or other matters of public interest. 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:00.120 The polls show there. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.760 There's a live possibility of a hung parliament and Green's 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:07.040 leader Adam Band came out yesterday and outlined the list 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.800 of demands he'd make of Albanesi in the case of 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:14.520 a hung parliament. They included negative gearing and capital gains 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:15.400 tax changes. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.160 I can announce today that the Greens will make reforming 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.320 negative gearing in the capital gains text discount a priority 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.560 in the next parliament, including when there's a minority government. 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.280 The Greens plan would see negative gearing in the capital 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:32.440 gains text discount scrapt for wealthy property investors, but preserved 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.760 for what are often called mum and Dad investors with 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:35.960 one investment property. 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.600 Well, all of this is a terrifying prospect, the idea 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:46.280 that a radical extremist left party could be co governing Australia, 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.200 Adam Band being Albernizi's. 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:49.920 Partner in crime. 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:50.720 Well. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.000 Peter Dutton last night said that both Alberzi and Adam 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.440 Bant have similar ideologies. 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:01.200 Their blood brothers Anthony Albernesi and Adam Bent had joined 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.120 at the hip. Only their mothers can tell them apart. 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.840 Only their mothers can tell them apart. It was a 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:08.880 great line from Peter Darton when he spoke to Chris 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.920 Kenny last night. But in truth, the Greens are so 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:16.960 grotesque that they're even backing a candidate who once joked 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:22.600 that Hitler was having fun. And as you'd expect, Albinezi 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.800 was far from pleased with this intervention from the Greens 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:28.680 leader right in the middle of the election campaign, and 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.760 he even criticized journalists for asking questions about it. 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.720 Can you rule out any changes to negative gearing and 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:38.080 capital gains tests? 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.520 How hard is it for the fiftieth time? Just here, 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:50.160 just here, just here, to form a government? What are 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:51.040 you talking about? 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.280 Sorry, if the Greens come to you and you need 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.319 their vote to pass legislation, will you rule out changing 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.000 negative gearing settings and capital gains? 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:00.079 Yes? 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.719 And you might have noticed, I'm mean you're a state correspondent. 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.080 But let me explain. There are twenty five votes we 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.280 have in the Senate in order to get legislation through. 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:12.760 We're in that situation, have been in that situation for 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:14.400 this entire term. 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.680 Now, the prospect of a partnership with the Greens, if 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.680 Albanezi wins minority government or if there's a hung parliament, 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:27.040 this is a realistic prospect. It's a legitimate line of 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.640 questioning for public accountability and transparency. 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.640 Albanezy needs to answer questions about this. 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.439 He can't be allowed to get away with brushing them 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.720 off by getting angry at journalists and adopting. 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:40.560 A patronizing tone. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:41.719 Well. 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:45.560 Peter Darton seized on this frustration felt by voters today 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.120 when he launched a spectacular spray against the Prime Minister, 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.600 accusing him of being a liar. Now Dartan is in 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.000 the fight of his political life with just three weeks 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.320 and two days until the election. 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.520 Three weeks in two days, and. 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.840 Instead of simply responding to a question from a journalist 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.120 about a Liberal candidate, he took the press conference into 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.520 his own hands to frame this message. 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:14.199 The Prime Minister has lied about the two hundred and 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.280 seventy five dollars Australian families have suffered because of that. 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.360 He's lied about the fact that power prices have now 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.040 gone up by thirteen hundred dollars. That's the reality. The 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.520 Prime Minister lied about falling off the stage for some reason. 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:26.760 I mean it was caught on camera. 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.000 Anthony Albertezi is out there telling people that he won't 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.880 form a government with the Greens. People know he's lying 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.240 about that. The Prime Minister has been lying about the 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:39.520 medi Scare campaign. We increased hospital funding by sixteen percent, 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.880 we increased education funding from thirteen billion to twenty five 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.280 billion dollars and the Prime Minister is out there looking 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.880 Australians in the eye saying that we did the opposite, 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:49.440 but the numbers show that he's lying. 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.400 Now, the Opposition leader has been warming up to his 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.760 attack that he claims Albaneze is a liar, and he 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:01.680 raised the theme of dishonesty during Tuesday Nights Leader's debate. Now, 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.080 accusing Albin Easy of being a liar will likely become 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.600 a daily feature of his campaign appearances, and the message 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:13.040 is effective because Australians are feeling the pain with the 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:16.520 cost of living and as the campaign rolls on, no 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.480 one can forget the promises made at the last election 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.560 that grocery prices would be cheaper, power bills would be 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.439 less and the cost of living would be easier, all 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:35.000 under Anthony Alban Easy. Okay, We're going to get to 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.760 Trump's tariffs in a moment with Adam Crichton, but now 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:41.160 let's bring in Sky News host Joe Hudebrand and Wa 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:42.840 opposition leader Basil Zemplus. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:44.160 Great to see you both. 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:48.520 Love Well, let's stick with this energy minister's debate today 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.360 because we saw Ted O'Brien again call on Chris Bowen 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:53.240 to apologize for the broken promise. 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.400 This is now becoming a theme. 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.560 Will you apologize for your commitment that power bills would 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.679 be churnentrent for five churndrences seventy. 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:01.960 Five dollars less, Joe? 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.160 Wouldn't it just be better for Alban easy to be 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.600 upfront and go, Yep, we got it wrong, I'm sorry. 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:09.840 Yeah, Look, I think there is a way to do that, 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:11.760 and I thought there was a way for charmers to 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.160 do it last night as well. But I think the 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.360 fear is with this culture and it sort of goes 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.439 beyond politics as well, where you demand that someone apologizes 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.439 for something and then as soon as they do it said, haha, 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.760 you apologized, you admitted it, you were wrong. So instead 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.559 of making the issue go away, it makes it worse. 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.560 But I think certainly there's no point in telling people 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.240 that black is white. There's no point saying I know actually, 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.800 if you close your eyes and squint in the half light, 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:36.720 your power. 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.079 Bills down page. 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:41.440 And there's a way also, I think of just being 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.760 honest about it that actually tells a fairly positive story 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:46.880 as well, so I can say, yes, look, there were 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:51.040 huge rises in twenty twenty two twenty three, in part 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:52.920 as the result of the war in Ukraine. But yes, 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.559 there were some issues with renewables because people were buying 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:57.960 power at spot highest spot prices because of. 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.719 A lot Wow you're doing but and you're trying to 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:01.200 explain it. 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.199 There's aay of instead of just sort of trying to 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.720 change the change the line of attack the journalist or whatever. 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:09.800 You can't say yes, in part that was dree but 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:11.920 also was these other factors as well. 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.880 I just think the news of those premier chrismins has 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.319 shown how you can say, I'm sorry, I got that wrong. 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.280 I regret that I wanted to make power bills cheaper. 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:23.960 In fact we made them more expensive because of our 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:25.080 rush to renewables. 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.720 Basil, what do you think, because this. 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.839 Is definitely a vulnerability for labor during this campaign, that 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.920 promise that they never kept on cost. 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.960 Of living, There's no doubt about that. And I think 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.880 to Joe's point, actually that digging in and trying to 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:46.640 defend the indefensible position actually is far worse to the 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.880 voting public. And then just saying yes, the gas prices 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.040 have gone up electricity before the rebates has gone up, 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.680 here's the reasons why. And even though that might be 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.680 a touch uncomfortable, it's a much better position than trying 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.720 to defend something that is clearly inaccurate. And they've dug 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.640 themselves a massive hole now, and this close to the election. 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:09.920 I'm not sure how they change tack on it, but 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.760 it's hurting them. It certainly makes Bowen look bad. It 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.000 doesn't help Albanesi, it doesn't help any of them. 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:17.720 And you know, just to that point, we did see 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.200 Peter Dutton on Monday come out and go I got 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.040 this wrong in the working from home policy. 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.080 So it can't be done, you know it. Dunn's done 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:26.360 it. It would be done Sharry. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.760 And we're not talking about it today, are we. And 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.560 that's the point. If you come out, you deal with it, 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.680 as uncomfortable as it might be to have to go 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.000 through that mea culpa. It's done and dusted. We're pretty 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.960 forgiving in Australia. Even the journals are pretty forgiving in Australia. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.640 But by digging in they've made it worse. 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.720 Yeah, you cauterize the wound exactly now. 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.080 Senator Nampa Jimpa Price has claimed that the Albanesi government 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.600 may proceed with plans for an indigenous treaty and a 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:57.040 Macarata truth telling commission. She says that they've been absolutely 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:01.320 opaque incented estimates with regard to Macarata, the twenty seven 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.640 million dollars that they supposedly put in a contingency and 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.880 what direction they're going to take. 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.960 So, Joe, what do you think is there any chance. 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.760 Of there's no I mean, I can't understand just into 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.640 saying that you know that they're not ruling it out 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:17.920 or it's still possible that they might or whatever. And 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.600 probably the government is not wanting to emphatically say there's 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.760 no way we're ever going to do this because that 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.560 would upset certain members of the left who would jump 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:28.320 up and down and make a noise and that's obviously 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.720 incredibly unhelpful in an election campaign or ever. But no, 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.720 their government is doing nothing. And I know this for 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:36.880 a fact from figures right up the very top. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:38.040 Once the voice. 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.800 You've asked about this, once the voice, Once the voice 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.040 went down, it was all about practical reconciliar actually all 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.040 about service delivery, all about just getting in there, you know, 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.640 cleaning up those communities, getting more money for education, getting 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.480 those grog bands back in place, getting more money for 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.160 housing for Indigenous people. And it's all practical stuff, now 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:03.280 anything any of that symbolic kind of big picture history, rewriting, 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:07.320 truth telling, apologizing. It's the furthest thing from the PM 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.640 or the government's mind upon us Basil. 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.920 We saw Peter Dutton speak about the failed Voice referendum 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:14.960 in the Leader's debate and it seems like a lot 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.680 of voters have forgotten about this and this was really 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:22.040 the point where Albinezi started losing momentum and the public 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.560 turned against him. But it reminds people how actually Dutton 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:31.120 can campaign very effectively. Was a sixty to forty vote 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.440 to begin with in support of the referendum. 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.360 He campaigned against it and it switched. So but you know, 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:37.360 perhaps it is. 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.720 A reminder that he can be strong at campaigning. There's 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:41.720 three weeks to go. 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.600 Do we need to see a bit more of his fight? 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:45.160 Do you think? 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:48.880 Well, he's a good campaigner, there's no doubt about that, 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.200 and he can construct and hold an argument very well. 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.080 I'm not certain though that making more of the voice 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:58.040 and referring back to the referendum would necessarily be a 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.960 smart or the correct policy for Peter Dutton and the Libs. 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:02.040 At this point. 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.760 They take their win in the referendum, They've got the 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.960 result that they campaign for. I think people do see 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.240 the election, the general election and the referendum is quite 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.879 separate issues and I think the smart play is to 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:15.840 keep them that way. 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.679 Agree. Well, let's turn to this story. 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:24.520 Shocking revelations today around teaching standards. The Australian reports that 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:29.199 some universities are taking students who have HC results as 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.000 low as thirty nine percent. 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:33.080 Now. 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.560 The report says that there's fifteen universities who are accepting 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:42.000 students into teaching degrees with atars lower than sixty now. 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.680 The Education Minister Jason Clair was asked if teachers need 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:47.760 to be more intelligent than their students. 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:48.920 Pretty reasonable question. 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:54.680 Here's what he said, we'll read out his comments. He said, 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:59.040 I think that's a given Joe. If this is his attitude, 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:00.800 then why is a doing. 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:02.919 Something about this? Because it is a good point. 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:08.439 We've got children who can't read, can't write, and you know, 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.720 perhaps it's because the teachers didn't even pass their HSC 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:13.520 or VC. 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:13.960 Yeah. 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:15.280 I think there's a couple of things. One is that 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.200 teacher burnout has been so high that there's a teacher shortage, 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.840 and that in course increases the chance of being burnout 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:23.359 because the teachers that are left behind do more, and 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.600 then there's a panic and think, oh my god, we've 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:27.960 got to get more teachers, which we have right now. 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:29.880 There's a huge teacher shortage, to the point where people 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.440 are bringing teachers out of retirement back into the classroom 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:34.399 to try and do it. Teaches a job sharing the 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.040 same class, and of course the instinctive thing to do 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.240 is say, all right, well, we need to lower the 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.520 mark so we can get more people into teaching degrees. 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.440 And in fact, as Jason clair Well knows and as 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.919 he is working towards doing, it's the opposite that you do. 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.560 It's not the lower mark that attracts people to teaching. 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.960 It's actually teachers having respect and prestige within the community, 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:58.359 with them actually being given the freedom to be able 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.600 to teach a class with worlds best practice methods with 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.600 actual scientific results instead of the latest sort of trending 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:08.359 mumbo jumbo. So that is something that Jason Clair is 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.000 doing and the Telegraph we've done big sort of features 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.399 on what he's doing attracting people from other careers into teaching, 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.359 making it easier to get into teaching degrees with the 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.040 universey of TASMI. Obviously as a very small university, it 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:23.040 has to attract people right to the very bottom of Australia. 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.600 People have to obviously move there and so it's atars 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:28.680 are always going to be lower than a Sydney or 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.159 Melbourne university. But certainly teaching should be like, you know, 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.240 like lawyers and doctors. It should be a profession that 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.480 people aspire to and actually want to compete to get into. 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.439 And the way to do that is or part of 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.440 the way to do that is improving pay. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.560 You know, don't you think basil teachers need to be 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:49.480 paid more. We need to have the absolute smartest, brightest, 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.920 most creative people teaching our next generation. 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.080 You know, we despair the fact. 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.480 That there are teenagers and children who can't read and write, 0:19:58.520 --> 0:19:59.440 and this. 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:00.960 Is why this is part of the problem. 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.840 Pay them more well, talk about respect, and nothing shows 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.879 that we respect our teaching staff. Right around Australia more 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.479 than paying them the right amount of money to do 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.960 the such important work that they do for the next 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.200 generation of Australians they're shepherding them through. Now the point, 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.400 i'd say, a really basic point, we have to make 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.399 schools safer. We know lots of schools are perfectly safe, 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.800 but we also know that violence in schools, at times 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:30.399 directed at teachers can be very, very frightening, and it 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.280 has discouraged lots of good teachers away from classrooms and 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.720 the next generation potentially coming through thinking I'm not sure 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:40.120 that's the environment we need to be in or want 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.840 to be in. That has to be a priority as well. 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:44.119 Yeah, good point. 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.000 Now let's turn to that breaking news that I mentioned 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:48.960 at the start of the show. The Herald Sun has 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:53.919 revealed that a Brisbane IVF clinic has apologized after it 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:59.399 implanted the wrong embryo in a woman. Now, the mother 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:02.800 at the center of this bungle gave birth to a 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:06.479 stranger's baby. This baby, it was believed to have been 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.119 born last year. It was reportedly human error. Now, the 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.719 monash IVF Chief executive set in a statement on behalf 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.560 of Monash IVF, I want to say how truly sorry, 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:18.920 I am for what has happened. All of us that 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:23.440 Monish monash ivf are devastated and we apologize. 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:23.880 To everyone involved. 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.240 We will continue to support the patients through this extremely 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:33.240 distressing time. So that's an extraordinary embryo mix up where 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.320 a mother believed to be in Brisbane has given birth 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:41.399 to a stranger's baby. Extraordinary, Joe. And it would be 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.080 such a difficult dilemma as well. 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:49.359 I mean, you've had that emotionally, it would just absolutely 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:51.239 screw with you so much. Can you just I mean, 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.160 I can't even imagine but being a woman and giving 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.359 birth to something you think is your own flesh and 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:00.280 blood and then seeing some I mean, I'm I mean 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:02.399 of course I would probably say you would care for 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:04.240 the baby, and you'd want to keep it and try it, 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:06.760 raised it as your own best. I mean, it's just 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:10.960 so mind blow I mean, my eldest son is you know, 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:13.240 he's hit every branch on the way down in terms 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.160 of health, had all sorts of health. Indend, he climbs, 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:16.800 he's fallen off, cut his head over and everything. So 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:18.600 we're in and out of hospitals all the time. They 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.520 don't even give you a panadol without checking your name 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:24.040 and your date of birth. I cannot, for the life 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:27.600 of me figure out how this mistake was made. 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.000 There's so much more we don't know about this story, 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:35.280 understandably for privacy reasons, Basil, But you know, I would 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.800 expect the mother would still love that baby, you'd assume, 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:39.919 even though it wasn't. 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:41.040 Her genetic material. 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.040 But then could there be a legal battle from the 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:47.320 person who's embryo. It actually is so I mean, there's 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:49.480 just it's just a minefield. 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.840 It's so incredibly challenging for all of the people involved, 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:58.360 notwithstanding the staff and the complications there with mine ash 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:01.520 and we understand that, or the mother who has carried 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:04.760 that baby for nine months and then now to have 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.440 to go through the mental dilemma, not even a dilemma, 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:12.880 but just the total conundrum in her mind and the 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:16.400 family's minds of how do I feel now about this 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:20.119 person knowing what I know now? And I mean, you 0:23:20.200 --> 0:23:24.000 just feel so desperately that these people have been put 0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:27.920 in that situation. Is it is such a confronting challenge, 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.240 and how you work your way through it is just 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:32.520 so difficult. You just do not know where to begin. 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:34.120 That mental process, So. 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:37.400 You'd think an apology would not be good enough. There'd 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:39.720 probably have to be some compensation in here as well. 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:42.760 And by the way, the error was reportedly discovered when 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:46.600 the birth parents requested the transfer of their remaining embryos 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:53.120 to another IVF clinic. So major drama, all right, Basil Zemblas. 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:55.800 Joe Hudebrand, very right, Joe. 0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:59.200 Now let's turn out to the tariff retreat that has 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:02.000 the whole world talking. This has been a monumental u 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:05.080 turn from Donald Trump. He has pressed the ninety dight 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:08.480 pause button on his tariffs, but they will now still 0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:11.880 be a base ten percent tariff. Here was the President 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:14.000 rationalizing this shock move. 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.240 Somebody had to do what we did, and I did 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.040 a ninety day pause for the people that didn't retaliate 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:22.920 because they told him, if you retaliate. 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:23.399 We're going to double it. 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:25.359 And that's what I did with China. 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:26.840 Yep. 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.400 So, as he says, China will still have the full 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:30.760 weight of the tariffs. 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:36.399 As I told everyone a week ago there in this 0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:41.760 very spot, do not retaliate and you will be rewarded. 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:44.960 So every country in the world who wants to come 0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:49.760 and negotiate, we are willing to hear you. We're going 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:53.560 to go down to a ten percent baseline tariff there 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:57.119 for them and China will be raised to one twenty 0:24:57.240 --> 0:24:59.879 five due to their insistence on s. 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:05.280 That's of course US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessont there. Well, 0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:08.400 let's bring you now, Institute of Public Affairs Chief Economists 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:09.000 Adam Crichton. 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:10.640 Adam, great to see you, as always. 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:15.280 Look, this has been the most roller coaster of a 0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:18.520 two week period on these tariffs. Donald Trump did tell 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:21.080 reporters that he pulled back on these tariffs because people 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:26.360 were quote yippie and afraid of the stock market volatility. 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:30.399 Is this his logic here? What's happened behind the scenes? 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:35.199 Well, look, certainly Donald trump supporters think it's the art 0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:37.639 of the deal, and his critics think that it's the 0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:41.160 art of the deal, But no one really knows here, 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:44.840 you know, what the actual reasoning was behind the scenes. 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:47.960 But look, certainly I think Trump is you know, is 0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:50.359 coming out of it reasonably. Well, so far, he's got 0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:53.720 this ten percent tariff flow so far, which is applying 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:56.040 to all imports. 0:25:55.640 --> 0:25:56.160 Into the US. 0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:58.160 That's about three hundred and eighty billion dollars a year 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:00.920 of extra revenue, which the un US can sorely need, 0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:04.920 of course, given the two trillion dollar annual budget deficit. 0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:05.280 That it has. 0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:10.960 So yeah, so I think it's going fairly fairly. 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:15.040 Well for him, fairly well for him. Certainly not in 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:18.480 the media. Would Elon Musk have played into this. Well, 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:23.400 not in the media, but this, yeah, continue, so gone, continue. 0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:26.560 So much focus on the stop No, there's so much noll. 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:28.600 There's so much focus on the stock market. But really 0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:30.600 there's too much focus on the stock market. I would 0:26:30.640 --> 0:26:34.119 say it's not really a good indication of the real economy. 0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:37.439 You know, what matters for Trump and his supporters is 0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:39.760 that jobs are brought back to the US. Now it 0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:42.119 remains have you seen whether these tariffs are the solution 0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:43.960 to that? But we have to give it a chance 0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:44.320 to work. 0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:47.000 I would say, I'll get to some of the unintended 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:49.760 consequences in the moment, the issue with the debt market. 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:51.600 But first I want to ask you about Elon Musk. 0:26:51.680 --> 0:26:55.280 We saw he came out publicly against Trump's trade advisor, 0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:57.800 Pete Navarro, said very public. 0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:02.840 Insults about him. So clearly Elon Musk was against the tariffs. 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:05.560 Now you'd have to say that Donald Trump is ultimately 0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:08.840 against tariff's as well. He was trying to get the 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:11.719 base down to no tariffs on both sides. But do 0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:16.280 you think Elon Musk's push also Trump donors like Bill Ackman, 0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:18.960 he said there should be a ninety day pause. Would 0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:22.359 these sort of figures have influenced the president's thinking. 0:27:24.760 --> 0:27:26.440 Well, I think one of the things that's come out 0:27:26.440 --> 0:27:28.159 of all this is that Trump is not in the 0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:31.159 pocket of Wall Street. That's how he's caricatured all the 0:27:31.240 --> 0:27:33.880 time by the left. But of course for the last 0:27:34.200 --> 0:27:36.640 the last fortnight, it's been chaos on Wall Street. It's 0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:40.360 been chaos for stock investors. I mean, he's smashed their returns. 0:27:40.359 --> 0:27:42.600 They're still down by seven or eight percent, even though 0:27:42.600 --> 0:27:46.520 there's been a recent rebound. So I think it's you know, 0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:49.760 it's smashed that there was obviously disagreement amongst his supporters 0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:52.720 Elon Musk on the one side, Peter Navarro on the 0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:54.960 other side. But I think it's healthy that all of 0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:57.200 these debates are out in the open and that people 0:27:57.200 --> 0:28:00.440 can see them. I mean, it seems Trump's crosshair are 0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:03.440 still very much on China. The trade deficit with China 0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:04.320 has fallen quite a bit. 0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:05.400 By the way, it was four. 0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:08.400 Hundred and twenty billion dollars roughly in twenty eighteen. It's 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:11.440 something like two hundred and sixty billion dollars now. And 0:28:11.680 --> 0:28:14.040 the tariffs still remain on China. I think, you know, 0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:16.680 more than one hundred and twenty percent, you know, which 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:20.560 is highly disruptive and is probably going to lead two 0:28:20.600 --> 0:28:22.840 imports into the US from third countries. 0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:26.080 I would say, so, I want to return to this 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:28.520 issue with the debt bonds because there's been so much 0:28:28.520 --> 0:28:31.520 focused on market volatility and yep, it's still down. But 0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:35.200 the reality is markets do go up and down. They 0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:38.360 react to news that are panicked investors. But this issue 0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:40.479 with the debt bonds is far more serious. Can you 0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:42.960 tell me about how that could play out for the 0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:43.880 US with China? 0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:46.400 Yeah, certainly. 0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:48.600 The bond markets have been just as volatile as the 0:28:48.600 --> 0:28:50.959 stock markets, even though they don't get as much attention 0:28:51.080 --> 0:28:53.520 in the press. I mean, it's interesting in recent in 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:57.239 recent days, the US government ten year bond yield's been 0:28:57.240 --> 0:28:59.680 even higher than Australia's I think about four point five 0:28:59.800 --> 0:29:03.000 by four point three. The concern here is that China 0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:06.400 is a big holder, relatively large holder of US government debt, 0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:09.200 and that in a fit of peak or anger, it 0:29:09.280 --> 0:29:11.760 may decide to sell some of those bonds, which of 0:29:11.760 --> 0:29:14.680 course would put up their ten year bond yield. But 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:16.880 the reality is, if you look at the actual ownership, 0:29:16.920 --> 0:29:19.960 I think, and this is my view, China simply doesn't 0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:22.000 own enough to be a huge problem for the US. 0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:25.640 It owns about ten percent of the outstanding stock of 0:29:25.760 --> 0:29:29.000 US bonds that are held by foreigners and two percent 0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:32.400 of the actual total. So I think it's very unlikely 0:29:32.440 --> 0:29:35.600 that China will sell, you know, will suddenly try to 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:37.880 sell it's US government bonds because of course it itself 0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:41.840 would make capital losses very significant, very significant capital losses, 0:29:42.760 --> 0:29:44.960 and it is the most liquid asset in the world. 0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:47.760 So look, there is a concern that foreigners could dump 0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:49.560 US government bonds, and of course the US government is 0:29:49.600 --> 0:29:52.800 extremely susceptible to that because it has thirty six trillion 0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:56.640 dollars of debt. It's borrowing about two trillion dollars every 0:29:56.680 --> 0:29:58.880 single year, so it is susceptible. 0:29:58.920 --> 0:29:59.760 But I don't think that. 0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:03.680 China is going to well, we'll press the big red 0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:04.280 button on that. 0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:05.360 Well. 0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:08.960 Another economist I spoke to off air last night, Warren 0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:12.280 Hogan was worried about this and said it could impact 0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:17.160 on US continuing to meet its debt repayments. But anyway, 0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:19.360 I guess we'll see how that plays out. 0:30:20.360 --> 0:30:22.720 Cold who knows, No one knows what's happening. No one 0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:23.560 knows what's happening. 0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:26.680 Adam Crichton, love having you on as always, Thanks for 0:30:26.720 --> 0:30:29.840 your time. Now still to come. 0:30:29.880 --> 0:30:32.920 Ted O'Brian doesn't rule out ditching the Paris Climate Agreement 0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:35.800 in today's debate, and then he later says that the 0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:36.680 L and P is. 0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:37.760 Committed to the target. 0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:42.560 Well is the Prime Minister planning to weaponize this? Plus 0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:47.160 Howard Dutton handle Trump and the tariffs? His shadow Trade 0:30:47.160 --> 0:30:49.200 minister will tell us next. 0:30:52.680 --> 0:30:53.320 Welcome back. 0:30:53.360 --> 0:30:56.200 Well, the issue now is that China is trying to 0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:59.720 step in to fill the potential void left by the US. 0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:02.719 And the question is how will Albin Easy respond to 0:31:02.920 --> 0:31:06.960 China's offer today to hold hands with Australia amid the 0:31:07.000 --> 0:31:11.120 Trump's tariff agenda? Will Alban Easy dodge the invite? 0:31:11.160 --> 0:31:11.640 Have a look? 0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:14.280 We will speak for ourselves. 0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:20.040 The US administration changes its position on a regular basis. 0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:23.480 That is why you have to be an adult, not 0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:28.080 have dial it up to eleven at every opportunity, which 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:31.520 is what Peter Dutton's plan is on everything, and just 0:31:31.560 --> 0:31:34.960 to say first thing that comes into your head and 0:31:35.000 --> 0:31:38.120 then pretend that you haven't said it and wind it back. 0:31:40.840 --> 0:31:44.640 And Shadow Trade Minister Kevin Hogan joins us now from Lismo, 0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:46.720 good to see you, Thanks for your time. 0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:49.400 Good to see you, Shary. 0:31:49.760 --> 0:31:51.040 Now, how would. 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:56.560 You be responding to this invitation from China? 0:31:56.920 --> 0:32:01.480 Well, Shary, we obviously have a very comp elementary relationship 0:32:01.480 --> 0:32:04.480 with China. They are our biggest export market. We sold 0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:07.480 over two hundred billion dollars worth of goods and services to. 0:32:07.440 --> 0:32:08.480 Them just last year. 0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:11.200 So we compliment each other what they want we have. 0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:13.880 So that's been a good relationship for them, and it's 0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:16.960 been a good relationship for us. But very importantly, we 0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:20.960 have a very close relationship with the United States and 0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:24.280 a very important national security relationship with the United States. 0:32:24.360 --> 0:32:27.560 And I've said previously that I think Orcus will outlive 0:32:27.680 --> 0:32:31.360 Trump's presidency, that will outlive Kersteiner's Prime ministership and our 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:34.440 Benez's prime ministership. So this isn't about holding hands with anyone. 0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:38.000 We have a trading relationship with China. That is a 0:32:38.040 --> 0:32:40.720 complimentary one, and we have a very important national security 0:32:40.720 --> 0:32:43.560 and economic relationship with the United States as well. 0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:45.880 You say China has been good to us and there's 0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:49.560 been a complementary relationship, Well that wasn't the case just 0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:52.800 a couple of years ago. I mean during the COVID pandemic, 0:32:53.320 --> 0:32:58.920 China imposed egregious tariffs and even trade bands on Australia. 0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:05.080 Yeah, complementary relationship, but yes, hasn't always been a good relationship. 0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:07.080 They banned a lot of products to us, which we 0:33:07.120 --> 0:33:09.600 think was egregious. We as you know, when we were 0:33:09.600 --> 0:33:13.880 in government, we took wto action against China for some 0:33:13.960 --> 0:33:15.880 of those bands or some of those tarots that put 0:33:15.920 --> 0:33:18.680 on products. So that was resolved. So, look, we've had 0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:22.080 a complementary relationship, that's what we've had. That's obviously been 0:33:22.160 --> 0:33:24.880 good for both countries. But certainly there's been issues there 0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:26.760 as well as we're having an issue now with the 0:33:26.840 --> 0:33:29.560 United States, which as friends sometimes do we need to 0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:30.840 talk through with the United States. 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:35.720 So are you concerned that we are seeing adversaries like 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:38.640 China try and take advantage of the Trump chaos. 0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:44.560 Well, look, China will do what they will with their neighbors, 0:33:44.560 --> 0:33:47.400 with their relationships with you know, all their neighbors and 0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:50.600 all people that they are around. But look, this for 0:33:50.760 --> 0:33:52.760 US isn't about doing one thing with one and one 0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:56.000 thing with another. We have a complementary relationship with China 0:33:57.120 --> 0:33:59.720 that has been a good trading relationship in the sense 0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:03.240 good for our exporters. But our relationship with the United 0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:05.800 States is a very important one, Charia, as you know, 0:34:05.960 --> 0:34:10.080 a national security and economically orcas is I think the 0:34:10.120 --> 0:34:14.000 primary thing of importance to us to keep our people safe. 0:34:14.120 --> 0:34:16.440 And as I said, I hope, I'm sure that it 0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:21.160 will outlive Trump's presidency, Albernieze's prime ministership and Steiner's Prime 0:34:21.160 --> 0:34:22.160 ministership in the UK. 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:24.719 Do you think Donald Trump was right to pause for 0:34:24.800 --> 0:34:26.520 ninety days his tariffs. 0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:29.479 Look, I'm glad he did. 0:34:30.160 --> 0:34:33.840 I think the tariffs are a bad idea and bad policy. 0:34:33.880 --> 0:34:37.600 I think it's inflationary for the US consumer, puts the 0:34:37.640 --> 0:34:40.600 price of things up, and I think it could do 0:34:40.719 --> 0:34:44.040 great damage to world growth. And if there's a trade 0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:46.120 war like we're seen a bit between China and the 0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:47.800 US now, I don't think. 0:34:47.640 --> 0:34:48.560 That's good for growth. 0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:51.320 We're a big exporting nation. We sold six hundred and 0:34:51.400 --> 0:34:54.440 fifty billion dollars worth of stuff overseas last year, and 0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:57.239 that depends on good global growth, so we don't want 0:34:57.239 --> 0:34:59.560 to see that retract. So I was happy to see 0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:02.279 the poor and hopefully these are more. You know, you 0:35:02.360 --> 0:35:04.879 hear different reports out of the States that these transactional. 0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:07.080 Did he do this to get leverage in other areas? 0:35:07.080 --> 0:35:07.680 We'll wait and see. 0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:10.279 I hope that's what it is to ask you to 0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:10.920 get removed. 0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:12.879 I want to ask you about that because one thing 0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:15.600 that he has put in the agenda also other members 0:35:15.600 --> 0:35:18.960 of his team, is the bound on American beef that 0:35:19.040 --> 0:35:21.560 Australia has in place. Yes, we've got it in place 0:35:21.560 --> 0:35:24.480 for biosecurity reasons, but his team. 0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:25.759 Say that that's fake. 0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:29.920 They literally use that word fake in Senate hearings this week. 0:35:30.280 --> 0:35:34.080 Do you think we should be revisiting those bands? Seeing 0:35:34.120 --> 0:35:35.759 as it has been a long time since there was 0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:36.400 any mad. 0:35:36.239 --> 0:35:38.000 Cow disease in the United States? 0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:40.640 The burgers are safe to eat when you're in the 0:35:40.719 --> 0:35:42.560 United States, as many Australians know. 0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:47.320 Well, look, showy, what I wouldn't say is that we 0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:50.600 should change our bias. This is bias biosecurity as you know, 0:35:50.719 --> 0:35:53.080 it's mad cow disease that they had now quite a 0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:55.840 while ago. What I don't think we should change is 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:59.759 our biosecurity protocols. But as part of those protocols we 0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:01.719 we've is it this all the time anyway in the 0:36:01.719 --> 0:36:04.920 normal course of business, So the Department of Ag will 0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:07.200 go through a process and regularly review it to see 0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:09.400 if the band should stay in place. So it's not 0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:12.480 this band isn't in place forever, but it will be 0:36:12.560 --> 0:36:16.720 removed when the protocols our biosecurity rules say we should 0:36:16.719 --> 0:36:19.160 lift the ban. So I think we stay with the 0:36:19.200 --> 0:36:21.839 biosecurity rules we have and not change them. And there 0:36:21.840 --> 0:36:23.759 may be one day where they say lift the ban. 0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:27.000 This is one of the things that the Trump administration 0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:29.120 has put on the table that they'd like to see 0:36:29.160 --> 0:36:31.000 Australia lift that ban. 0:36:31.600 --> 0:36:32.920 There is no mad cow disease. 0:36:32.960 --> 0:36:36.279 So should that be something that the Australian government sits 0:36:36.320 --> 0:36:38.120 down and negotiates. 0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:40.719 Well, I don't think it should be something that we 0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:42.359 negotiate as part of this deal. And I don't think 0:36:42.400 --> 0:36:45.359 we should say we're going to lift the ban on 0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:47.640 your beef to get a deal. I don't think we 0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:50.680 should say that. No, But I think we just keep 0:36:50.680 --> 0:36:53.560 our biosecurity rules in place. They're there for a reason, 0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:57.799 and we adhere to what our biosecurity protocols tell us 0:36:57.880 --> 0:36:59.399 to do and not change them. 0:36:59.680 --> 0:37:02.759 All right, Kevin Hogan, appreciate your time, Thank you very much. 0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:06.280 Now still to come the liberal candidate trying to unseat 0:37:06.360 --> 0:37:09.279 Josh Burns in the Victorian seat of Macnamara. 0:37:09.520 --> 0:37:11.840 Why he's now in with the chance. 0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:15.840 Plus revelations that Labour six hundred billion dollar figure came 0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:17.440 from an activist group. 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:22.719 That's next. Welcome back. 0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:25.400 Well, let's return to the energy debate between Chris Bowen 0:37:25.480 --> 0:37:29.560 and Ted O'Brien today. Now, for weeks, Labour has claimed 0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:35.000 that the coalition's nuclear energy plan will cost six hundred 0:37:35.440 --> 0:37:39.640 billion dollars, but they haven't said where that figure comes from. Well, 0:37:39.719 --> 0:37:42.400 Chris Bowen was finally pressed on this today. 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:46.200 Six hundred billion dollars is the figure you've quoted a lot. 0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:48.520 The CSIO on next Gen report found the costs of 0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:51.120 nuclear just the actual building cost would actually be one 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:54.160 hundred and sixteen billion. Isn't that a better authority to 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:57.200 use than the Lobby Group's Smart Energy Council which is 0:37:57.239 --> 0:38:00.000 thrown up up to six hundred billion, not six hundred bill, 0:38:00.239 --> 0:38:02.200 but up to what Tom. 0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:04.480 I don't agree with respect the premise of the way 0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:07.560 you've asked the question, because absolutely the CSIRO should be 0:38:08.360 --> 0:38:11.719 the organization we listened to mister a Brien claims they've 0:38:11.800 --> 0:38:13.120 used the CSI roh is. 0:38:13.239 --> 0:38:13.960 That's not true. 0:38:14.080 --> 0:38:15.040 It's just not right. 0:38:16.320 --> 0:38:20.240 And then Chris Bowen refused to say how much Labour's 0:38:20.280 --> 0:38:22.000 own plan would cost. 0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:23.480 That wasn't. 0:38:24.960 --> 0:38:25.919 I didn't interrupt your question. 0:38:26.120 --> 0:38:27.279 Well it was my. 0:38:27.360 --> 0:38:30.440 Question, so I will interrupt you. We're not after the NPV. 0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:33.279 No one here walks into a shop and says, oh, 0:38:33.320 --> 0:38:34.840 how much is the bottle of milk? And you know 0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:37.080 the shopkeeper says, or do you want an MPV on that? No, 0:38:37.120 --> 0:38:39.000 I just tell us how much it costs? So how 0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:39.879 much is it going to cost? 0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:42.239 You can dismiss the way that AEMO says is the 0:38:42.239 --> 0:38:45.160 most accurate way of describing it. I choose criticizing the 0:38:45.160 --> 0:38:48.400 way you're describing it because your avoid your question. 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:50.920 Unbearable. 0:38:51.000 --> 0:38:54.280 Well to discuss, let's bring in The Australian's Environment editor Graham. 0:38:54.320 --> 0:38:57.239 Lloyd Graham, good to see you. Well, So how credible. 0:38:57.560 --> 0:39:01.440 Is this figure the six hundred billion supposed cost of 0:39:01.480 --> 0:39:05.240 the coalition's nuclear policy, Well. 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:07.560 Good Edny Schari. It was quite a revelation in the 0:39:07.600 --> 0:39:11.440 debate there that this figure has come from the Smart 0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:15.439 Energy Council, which is unashamably a lobby group for the 0:39:15.480 --> 0:39:21.680 renewable energy industry. There's obviously a big range of cost 0:39:21.719 --> 0:39:25.120 things that can be applied, but the csiro O report 0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:30.719 is one hundred and sixteen billion dollars. The coalition was saying, 0:39:30.760 --> 0:39:33.760 look about one hundred and fifty billion dollars, so way 0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:38.160 different to the six hundred and it's fascinating to see 0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:40.480 how that figure of six hundred was arrived at. 0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:43.880 Yeah, it really is interesting, but in the end it 0:39:43.880 --> 0:39:46.879 almost doesn't matter because Albanize is using it all the time. 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:49.920 We heard in the leader's debate on Tuesday night here 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:54.760 kept saying that Dutton was planning secret cuts to fund 0:39:54.840 --> 0:39:58.239 the six hundred billion dollar nuclear plan. So again, you know, 0:39:58.280 --> 0:40:01.239 you repeat it often enough and it's to become reality. 0:40:02.320 --> 0:40:05.360 Well, that's certainly how this is being played, that the 0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:08.799 six hundred billion has been constantly rolled out as the 0:40:08.840 --> 0:40:11.960 cost of the coalition's plan. So I think it is 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:16.400 really important that the truth behind where that figure comes 0:40:16.440 --> 0:40:21.240 from is widely understood and that process is really started, 0:40:21.239 --> 0:40:21.920 I think today. 0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:26.520 Look, another key moment today was when Tet O'Brien didn't 0:40:26.640 --> 0:40:30.840 really rule out the coalition ditching the Paris climate target. 0:40:30.920 --> 0:40:34.480 Here he was, we want to ensure that we are 0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:39.840 growing this country, not decarbonizing it is good. Deindustrializing it 0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:44.920 like labor is bad. Once we've done that analysis, then 0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:47.880 we'll be making decisions along the lines that you pose. 0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:50.279 So I won't be pre empty today, with all due 0:40:50.360 --> 0:40:52.200 respect that hypothetical. 0:40:52.239 --> 0:40:54.920 You're prepared, all of those things considered that if it 0:40:55.000 --> 0:40:58.080 is in the national interest to potentially leave Paris, I can. 0:40:58.080 --> 0:41:00.680 Commit that we will always act in the national interest 0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:03.400 and we'll be upfront with the Australian people. 0:41:05.080 --> 0:41:06.840 Graham kind of an odd response. 0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:10.239 He then had to issue a statement clearing this up afterwards. 0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:16.279 That's right. This is quite an encendry area and it 0:41:16.320 --> 0:41:19.520 will be interesting to see how it's received. If this 0:41:20.080 --> 0:41:22.920 had come up in the last federal election campaign, you 0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:25.480 would expect there would be a huge outcry from around 0:41:25.480 --> 0:41:28.920 the place. I suspect that the outcry will be slightly 0:41:28.960 --> 0:41:32.520 more muted this time, because there's a much better understanding 0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:35.480 of how difficult this all is. And if you look 0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:38.680 at the coalition's approach. We saw it from Queensland with 0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:42.080 the LMP this week and Ted O'Brien was indicating the 0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:44.960 same things that it's time for a stock take to 0:41:45.080 --> 0:41:50.600 see how our ambitions match with the reality. And it's 0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:54.120 no good just going along with huge ambitions and figures 0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:57.160 if they can't be met, and so the process of 0:41:57.200 --> 0:41:59.960 a stock take. And then I think the twenty three 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:02.680 five figure is the one that's the most sort of 0:42:02.760 --> 0:42:06.160 key at the moment. The twenty fifty figure of net 0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:09.520 zero by twenty fifty. I think they're still bipartisan support 0:42:09.560 --> 0:42:12.120 for that because it's a long way away, but the 0:42:12.239 --> 0:42:17.200 closer targets there's a lot more difficulty in actually justifying 0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:19.160 whether you're going to meet them or not. 0:42:20.080 --> 0:42:21.160 Yeah, it's just amazing. 0:42:21.200 --> 0:42:23.360 I mean it's just the space of three years and 0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:27.280 yet barely anyone, even the Teals, are not mentioning climate 0:42:27.440 --> 0:42:28.520 change this election. 0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:31.400 They campaigned on it heavily last time and. 0:42:31.680 --> 0:42:35.080 Again you know you mentioned Labour's twenty thirty five targets. 0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:36.840 How can they get. 0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:39.879 Away with not saying they're twenty thirty five targets, it's 0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:43.640 in ten years time, yet they haven't put that forward. Look, 0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:45.720 I just want to ask you to end off about 0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:49.560 the gas reservation, the East Coast gas reservation. It seems 0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:53.680 like the leftist media, including the ABC, just a fighting 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:56.880 tooth and nail against this, having a lot of activists 0:42:56.960 --> 0:43:01.279 on their programs who don't support it. Why would they 0:43:01.280 --> 0:43:04.280 be against more gas into the market. 0:43:05.560 --> 0:43:07.640 Well, it's an article of faith for a lot of 0:43:07.640 --> 0:43:11.160 people on the left to not let more gas into 0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:13.680 the system because that will push out of renewables and things, 0:43:13.680 --> 0:43:17.120 which is really a misreading of how this transition is 0:43:17.160 --> 0:43:21.399 going to work into the future. But there's you know, 0:43:21.880 --> 0:43:24.040 the one thing you can say about the gas reservation 0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:29.240 policy is as a sort of a slogan gas reservation 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:30.920 that works pretty well. It's when you get to the 0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:34.600 details it's more difficult. I think the coalition has some 0:43:34.680 --> 0:43:39.200 pushback from the industry from everywhere in terms of how 0:43:39.239 --> 0:43:41.920 it's going to do this. But the most important thing 0:43:42.000 --> 0:43:45.560 is to get more gas into the system. And if 0:43:45.800 --> 0:43:49.840 the companies have to really agree to cop something on 0:43:49.920 --> 0:43:53.279 their existing production, they need to work out a way 0:43:53.360 --> 0:43:57.239 to develop new fields that with enough incentive for the 0:43:57.280 --> 0:43:59.600 companies to make it worth their while to do so. 0:44:00.760 --> 0:44:03.080 Indeed, all right, Grahame Lloyd, great to have you on. 0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:03.919 Thank you so much. 0:44:04.680 --> 0:44:07.880 Now after the break, as Jewish Labor MP Josh Burns 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:11.879 fights alban Easy to allow him not to preference the Greens, well, 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:14.160 it seems the Liberals may be in with a chance 0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:16.280 in this critical Victorian seat. 0:44:16.480 --> 0:44:19.360 I'll speak with a coalition candidate next. 0:44:23.239 --> 0:44:23.399 Now. 0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:26.920 The last thing that Jewish Labor politician Josh Burns wants 0:44:26.960 --> 0:44:31.200 to do is preference the Greens in his seat of McNamara, 0:44:31.840 --> 0:44:33.960 but it seems he hasn't been able to get permission 0:44:34.040 --> 0:44:37.040 from Alban Easy all Labor headquarters so far. 0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:37.879 Now. 0:44:37.920 --> 0:44:41.000 The Australian has reported on a leaked audio recording where 0:44:41.080 --> 0:44:44.400 Josh Burns tells Waiders to give him time and to 0:44:44.480 --> 0:44:48.040 watch this space when asked if he deny preferences to 0:44:48.080 --> 0:44:48.600 the Greens. 0:44:49.040 --> 0:44:49.799 We'll joining me now. 0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:52.960 Is the Liberal candidate up against Josh Burns in McNamara, 0:44:53.200 --> 0:44:54.560 Benson Salo Benson. 0:44:54.600 --> 0:44:57.040 Good to have you on the show. Now, this is 0:44:57.080 --> 0:44:58.440 an unusual seat. 0:44:58.200 --> 0:45:01.399 That you're running in from a demographics pace, because yes, 0:45:01.440 --> 0:45:05.360 there's a large Jewish population but also many Greens voters. 0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:08.440 So how do you deal with this when you're campaigning? 0:45:10.680 --> 0:45:12.640 Well, thanks so much Harry for having me on, and 0:45:13.080 --> 0:45:15.360 our team has been out since July knocking on doors, 0:45:15.360 --> 0:45:17.600 meeting with people at the shops and understanding what are 0:45:17.640 --> 0:45:21.719 the key issues impacting people and right now across McNamara, 0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:24.600 cost of living is the number one issue that's really 0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:28.240 impacting household budgets. It's impacting businesses right across the electorate. 0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:31.040 And the second one, which most people would consider it 0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:34.960 being a state issue, is really crime and community safety. 0:45:35.200 --> 0:45:37.719 But a part of that is also anti Semitism, which 0:45:37.719 --> 0:45:41.319 we've seen rear its ugly heads since October seventh here 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:41.960 in Australia. 0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:43.000 Yeah, we have. 0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:46.560 Indeed now preferences with the Greens has become quite a 0:45:46.560 --> 0:45:50.360 big issue in Macnamara and Benson last night at the 0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:53.200 community forum you were at with Josh Burns, he was 0:45:53.280 --> 0:45:56.920 asked about whether he'd preferenced the Greens last Here's what 0:45:57.040 --> 0:45:57.719 he had to say. 0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:01.120 I really like Benson, is ay, but he's not the 0:46:01.120 --> 0:46:03.920 person I'm worried about winning this seat. The only people 0:46:04.000 --> 0:46:05.440 who can win this seat and me. 0:46:05.520 --> 0:46:06.160 Or the Greens. 0:46:06.600 --> 0:46:09.720 And if the Greens form into the top two, then 0:46:09.880 --> 0:46:12.360 you think about the people who make up this electorate, 0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:16.520 a young progressive people from Ellwood, from Sint Kilda, from 0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:18.759 Winsor from South Melbourne, from South Bank. 0:46:19.000 --> 0:46:20.080 Now we are a proud and. 0:46:20.200 --> 0:46:22.640 Large Jewish community, but we're only ten percent of the 0:46:22.680 --> 0:46:23.799 electorate of McNamara. 0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:27.879 So, Benson, what's your response to what Josh said? 0:46:27.920 --> 0:46:30.520 Do you think we are looking at a Greens MP 0:46:30.719 --> 0:46:31.919 winning McNamara here? 0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:36.439 Well, the only way that a Greens MP can win 0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:40.439 you if the Jewish community and the broader community vote 0:46:40.480 --> 0:46:42.560 for a party that actually is preferencing the Greens. And 0:46:42.560 --> 0:46:46.280 that party right now is Labor. And at that forum 0:46:46.360 --> 0:46:49.840 and there was over four hundred people, they're eagerly waiting 0:46:49.880 --> 0:46:52.279 on Josh Burns to confirm that he was not going 0:46:52.320 --> 0:46:54.880 to preference the Greens, and unfortunately he has been, like 0:46:54.920 --> 0:46:58.000 he has been over the last eighteen months, noncommittal to 0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:02.360 actually preferencing the Greens last and actively calling out their 0:47:02.400 --> 0:47:07.759 open and active anti semitism that we've seen continuously being 0:47:07.800 --> 0:47:13.120 shared right across the community. So it continues to ask 0:47:13.160 --> 0:47:15.839 the question. The community continues to ask the question, will 0:47:15.920 --> 0:47:19.200 Josh show leadership within his own party and push back 0:47:19.239 --> 0:47:21.759 against Albert Ezi, and push back against Benny Wong, and 0:47:21.800 --> 0:47:24.960 push back against other leaders within his own party, to 0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:29.360 stand up for his community and to put this the 0:47:29.440 --> 0:47:33.080 concerning and anti Semitic and divisive Greens last. 0:47:34.760 --> 0:47:36.759 And it seems we don't, you know, we don't know 0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:38.440 where this is going to land. But it seems at 0:47:38.440 --> 0:47:41.759 this point he hasn't been allowed to put the Greens last. 0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:43.680 He's also been in a very difficult position. 0:47:43.760 --> 0:47:44.440 Josh Burns. 0:47:44.719 --> 0:47:48.480 He's Jewish, he supports Israel, but he's sitting within. 0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:49.480 The Albanese government. 0:47:50.160 --> 0:47:52.560 Do you think he's done enough to defend the Jewish 0:47:52.560 --> 0:47:57.920 community and fight back against the Albanese government's hostility towards Israel. 0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:04.919 Look, Josh's is an important voice within Labor, but unfortunately, 0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:08.640 what we've seen is that Labor has actively abandoned and 0:48:08.680 --> 0:48:11.279 walked away from the Jewish community. We've seen that at 0:48:11.280 --> 0:48:14.200 the un we've seen that federally, We've seen this playing 0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:17.279 out on our streets and across our university campuses. And so, 0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:22.719 while I do applaud Josh Burns's efforts internally, clearly he 0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:27.960 doesn't have the ear of the Prime Minister in highlighting 0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:32.200 the impacts of anti Semitism. And now when I speak 0:48:32.239 --> 0:48:36.120 to the community, they are disappointed, they're frustrated, but also 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:39.680 they're scared. They're they're they're scared of what the future 0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:42.160 for their children and their community look like. When we 0:48:42.200 --> 0:48:48.200 are seeing unchecked hate speech and anti semitism across across 0:48:48.239 --> 0:48:53.040 Melbourne CBD, across Jewish schools in Melbourne and across the 0:48:53.080 --> 0:48:59.400 community more broadly, so the community is eagerly waiting on 0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:02.920 Josh to to show leadership, to push back and to 0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:04.000 put the Greens last. 0:49:04.719 --> 0:49:07.399 It's actually worth pointing out that there still haven't been 0:49:07.440 --> 0:49:11.680 any arrests made for the perpetrators behind the Adas Synagogue 0:49:11.680 --> 0:49:15.840 fire bombing. I mean that's been months now and yet 0:49:15.880 --> 0:49:18.960 no arrests at all by Victorian police. New Southwalans police 0:49:18.960 --> 0:49:21.839 have been very active. They've arrested at least more than 0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:24.480 fourteen people for a spate of different incidents, but we 0:49:24.600 --> 0:49:27.600 haven't seen those arrests from Victorian police yet. Are the 0:49:27.680 --> 0:49:32.040 incidents in Victoria as well outstanding. So look, we hope 0:49:32.080 --> 0:49:33.960 that we will see those soon. But at this point 0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:36.960 you can understand why the community is living in fear, 0:49:37.400 --> 0:49:39.640 not just the Jewish community, but as you say, that 0:49:39.840 --> 0:49:43.440 crime wave across Melbourne is affecting so many Melbournians. 0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:46.680 Benson Sallow. Great to meet you on the show and 0:49:46.719 --> 0:49:48.040 have you on. Thanks for your time. 0:49:49.800 --> 0:49:50.840 Thank you very much, Sherry. 0:49:51.680 --> 0:49:54.360 Now it's Eastern next week. Of course, the East the show, 0:49:54.400 --> 0:49:56.880 I'm told opens tomorrow. I love the East of the show, 0:49:57.320 --> 0:49:59.600 but it's also passover this weekend, so I want to 0:49:59.640 --> 0:50:02.680 wish all of our Jewish viewers at Kagsa Meyer for 0:50:02.760 --> 0:50:06.040 this weekend. I've been making mutter balls with my ninety 0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:09.080 one year old grandmother Yaya this week, so it'll be 0:50:09.200 --> 0:50:11.800 a great say to now. I'll see you on Monday 0:50:11.920 --> 0:50:14.799 at eight. But right now, here's Paul Murray in the 0:50:14.840 --> 0:50:15.359 man Cave.