1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: I got a you Bloody Champions. Welcome to another installment 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: the You Projector's harps. Who else would it be. It's 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: a it's a bloody Wednesday. It's twelve thirty five and 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: the thriving tropolis of Melbourne, and I'm chatting with one 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: of my best friend in the world, Rip Dicko, who's 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: not with us anymore. Love that man, Still love that man. 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: I also love his brother, who is I'm going to 8 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: be honest, not quite as good as Dicko was, but 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: he's about ninety five percent. 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: And that's okay. I mean because he was a gun. 11 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: That's so mate, you been ninety five percent of as 12 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: good as your brother. 13 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 2: That's all right, isn't it. 14 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 3: I'd take ninety five percent, I'd take eighty percent. 15 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. 16 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: Great to be here and go on. 17 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 4: I love I love speaking with you, and I'm very 18 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 4: grateful that you got me on again. 19 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 3: I love having chats with you. 20 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, mate, I love it. And I'm being silly. 21 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: Of course. 22 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: You're one hundred percent Pete Dixon, and you're a ripper 23 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: in your own right. Your brother was a beauty and 24 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: you know, but it's good to catch up with you again, mate, 25 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: and what do you I know, you've just put out 26 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 1: a book. 27 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that. 28 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: But it's been a while since you've been on here, 29 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 1: and so for those who've been living under rock, dick 30 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: O is a director, an award winning filmmaker, and now 31 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: a two time author, one fiction, one not real life 32 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: will call the other one. I don't know what we 33 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: call it faction, But other than writing a new book, 34 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: what have you been up to for the. 35 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: Last few years? 36 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, So I finished that book with about Rob he 37 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 4: was my brother, and then sort of went into a 38 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 4: what happens is I sort of in between projects. It's 39 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 4: a tumultuous time for me, really, because there's a few 40 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 4: things that happened. A I come down from a high 41 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 4: after being creatively active for so long, and then then 42 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 4: I get into the anxious part of it or what's next? 43 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: And you know this game is you're really up. 44 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 4: And down all the time, and you're hoping that you 45 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 4: can fund the next project. 46 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 3: You're hoping you have something that you passionately can work on. 47 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 4: So it's been a bit lean in the documentary space 48 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 4: for independence such as myself. Over the last few years, 49 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 4: it's getting worse it's just getting really hard to fund 50 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 4: documentaries in the sporting space. That the networks used to pay, 51 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 4: they don't pay anymore. So I in between these books, 52 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 4: I had a good project, a Carlton project, which was 53 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 4: half funded by Carlton, half funded independently, and so I 54 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 4: had a great chance to do a documentary on. 55 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 3: That that was released this year, and that was on Fox. 56 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 3: And in between they went really well. Yeah, yeah, it 57 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 3: was great. 58 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 4: It was about the nineteen seventy It was a sort 59 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 4: of a homage to the past, the nineteen seventy Grand 60 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 4: Final team, and I managed to speak to both Carlton 61 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 4: and Collingwood, most of the players before, I mean the 62 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 4: getting old, so it was a good chance to grab it. 63 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 2: Did you talk to Jesus still alive? 64 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 4: Jess is still alive, but he is not in great shape. 65 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 4: So I used archival stuff for Jezza. I mean, there's 66 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 4: a few of them that are really battling, so you 67 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 4: had to sort of be very choosy with that. But 68 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,679 Speaker 4: so that came out. But in between, what's happened since 69 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 4: I wrote that book. He was my brother. I really 70 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 4: enjoyed that process. I remember talking to her last time. 71 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 4: I really it's sort of filled to the void for 72 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 4: me in the storytelling sense without documentaries, and. 73 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 3: So I thought, I think I might try fiction. 74 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 4: I was asked to write fiction and by one of 75 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 4: my mentors, and I thought, I don't think I've got 76 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 4: the words for fiction. I think it's and it's a 77 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 4: really difficult thing to do. And anyway, I had an 78 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 4: idea that's been in my head for a while, and 79 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 4: I went ahead and had a crack and I remember 80 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 4: the first few chapters. I thought I was flying. I 81 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 4: thought this is the greatest piece of work. And I 82 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 4: remember sending it to one of. 83 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: Those mentors and the reaction was. 84 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 4: What is this shit? So really, yeah, it put me 85 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 4: straight back. 86 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 3: In my box. 87 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 4: But it was more about, you know, the writing was good. 88 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 4: They liked the writing. It's just that there was no 89 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 4: story to the first few chapters, which I sort of 90 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 4: it was a good punch in the face straight up. 91 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 4: So I changed attack on the whole thing and I 92 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 4: went back to the drawing board, and a thousand edits later, 93 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 4: I had a manuscript, and to my shock, it got 94 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 4: picked up by a US publisher. 95 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: So, and as somebody who's I've been published by a 96 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: few publishers like Jeff'slattery Publishing. 97 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: You would know him. In fact, your brother, your brother 98 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: introduced me, God bless him. 99 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: He introduced me to jeff'slater AKAIFL Publishing and Penguin I 100 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: published with, And so I understand. Then I'm self published. 101 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: I understand the journey and the process. And when I 102 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 1: spoke to you the other day briefly and you told 103 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: me that it got picked up by us published, I'm like, 104 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: how the fuck did you do that? 105 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: Dude? 106 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: Like that is so for a first time fiction? Like 107 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: to them, you're with respect like me, You're a nobody 108 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: to them. 109 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 4: Oh, absolute blank, yep, you're a literary nobody in America, 110 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 4: just like me. Well you, I mean not to me, mate, 111 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 4: it's special, but to them. So for them to actually 112 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 4: pick it up that you must have been. 113 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: Quite I mean, firstly, it was amazing and you deserve 114 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: it and well done. 115 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: But it's very rare that that happens. 116 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 3: It's so rare. 117 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 4: And I mean because I'm not a well known writer 118 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 4: by any means. I mean in a documentary space, yes, 119 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 4: but in writing, I don't have an agent as a writer, 120 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 4: and an agent is bloody. I mean, the stats on 121 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 4: that are one in six thousand. It's ridiculously difficult to 122 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 4: get an agent. So I couldn't send the manuscript to 123 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 4: the big publishers here in Australia because they just don't 124 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 4: look at it unless your agent. 125 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 3: You have an agent. 126 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 4: I sent the manuscript off to a few of the 127 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 4: local independent publishers indie publishers in Australia and got some rejections. 128 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 4: You just know you're going to get rejected in this 129 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 4: book game. So that was fine. Gold fiction not really 130 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 4: their genre. So for some didn't get past the first 131 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 4: chapter blah blah blah. So I started to target US 132 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 4: and UK publishers. 133 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 3: And I got one. 134 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 4: I sent one and I remember looking at it initially 135 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 4: thinking they're not going to accept this because the big 136 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 4: in big red writing splashed across the portal page was 137 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 4: we only accept US authors, so I thought. 138 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 3: And I was in that stage where I'm just going 139 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 3: to send it to everyone. 140 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 4: So I sent it off lo and behold, a couple 141 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 4: of weeks after that and I'm still, to be honest, 142 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 4: I sent this manuscript off I don't know, six months 143 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 4: ago to it to various places. I'm still getting responses 144 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 4: that they haven't read it yet so. 145 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,679 Speaker 3: It takes forever. It's glacier speed, this sort of stuff. 146 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 3: So I'd be whole. 147 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 4: We horrified if an Australian one comes back soon and 148 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 4: says they would take it. But anyway, because I've signed 149 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 4: off for three years. 150 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 3: But anyway, they came back and said, look, we have 151 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: read the first few chapters. 152 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 4: And we want to keep reading. So to us that 153 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 4: means we're interested. We will get back to you. And 154 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 4: I was shocked because I realized that that was this 155 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 4: place that so then you're sort of on tenderhooks, just 156 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 4: waiting and waiting. And anyway, about two three weeks later 157 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 4: they came just seep because it was all email. They 158 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 4: came back and said, we would like to publish your 159 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:57,239 Speaker 4: book simply. 160 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 3: That was simply the line. 161 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 4: And I to be honest, I cried to be honest. 162 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 4: And because I'm an emotional unit, I don't blame you. Yeah, 163 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 4: I'm emotional. And this was one of those ones where 164 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 4: I never really thought I was actually prepared next year 165 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 4: great to sort of go, look, I'll even. 166 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 3: Do it myself if I have to, just just to 167 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 3: get the story out there. 168 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 4: But so the next phase of that was you have 169 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 4: to sign over for three years and they look after 170 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 4: everything else. They are a massive publisher in the States. 171 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 4: In terms of their online presence, I don't care either. 172 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 4: I'm just happy that someone's taken it. And what they're 173 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 4: telling me is that online is the only way to go. 174 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 4: Their bookstores are dying off in America apparently, so everything 175 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 4: they do is pushed hard online around the world, and 176 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 4: they have around the world access and for printing, so 177 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 4: if people go into a bookstore here, they won't be 178 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 4: on the shelf, but they just have to asked for 179 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 4: the title and it'll be there the next day because 180 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 4: they have distribution centers in Australia, funnily enough in Danielong, 181 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 4: which is in Victoria. So they sent me a bunch 182 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 4: which I'm actually selling through my website, which is quicker. 183 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 3: For people and cheaper. But yeah, it. 184 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 4: Was amazing and I'm forever grateful to them, and they 185 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 4: have been nothing but supportive and warm. 186 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 3: They're always there. I mean, I'm just amazed. 187 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 4: At the relationship that they offer, and to be honest, 188 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 4: it's not a big money spit turning thing the book market, 189 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 4: and just the fact they're doing this and they believe 190 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 4: in the book astounds me, but there was another reason 191 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 4: to it. There is a bit of an American flavor 192 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 4: to it. It is about the masters, it is about 193 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 4: playing golf for a green Master's jacket, so it's a 194 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 4: hat tip to the masters, and I think I think 195 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 4: that was something that attracted them. 196 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 3: I like to. 197 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 4: Think that they like the writing, but I think that 198 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 4: was something that was a bit unusual. 199 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 3: And then I found out that I was only one 200 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 3: of two authors in Australia they have. 201 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: So I was and I heard you on SCN and 202 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: you don't know who the other one is. 203 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 4: Right, No, I don't know who the other one is. 204 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 4: And it was funny the guys were saying a bit 205 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 4: flat that you're not the only one. I don't know 206 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 4: who the other one is and I don't know the book. 207 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 4: But yeah, I just think for them to do that, 208 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 4: they I'm forever grateful. 209 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 3: And so three years and yeah they have it. They 210 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 3: have the rights to it for three years. So now 211 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 3: it's it's kind of it's funny. It's sort of there's this. 212 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 4: Big hype around right now it's released and you get 213 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 4: a little excited, but then a couple of weeks time, 214 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 4: as you know, with these things. 215 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 3: It's all done. It's all done. 216 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: What's interesting what I love about like when I signed with, 217 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: you know, both the different publishers I signed with. What 218 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: I love is it's like it dawns on you that 219 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,239 Speaker 1: it's in their interest to sell lots of books. 220 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, do you know what I mean? 221 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: Like they are highly motivated to sell your book and 222 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: so all the shit that you don't want to do, 223 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: Like I mean, and I know you're something of an introvert, 224 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: and I know how much you love pr and talking publicly, right, 225 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: so I guess they've kind of, you know, charged you 226 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: with doing exactly what you're doing now, which is talking 227 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: to various forms of media about the book, which you're 228 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: very good at. But what is great is in terms 229 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: of building a network and getting it into stores or 230 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: getting it into hands whatever formatic comes in, you know, 231 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: whether it's an ebook or whether it's a physical book 232 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: or eventually is it going to be audio eventually or no. 233 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 4: Yes, they have told me that will happen. They're just 234 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 4: waiting to see how it goes in the first few months. 235 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean having all of the back end 236 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: taken care of where you don't have to sell shit, 237 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: you don't have to distribute, you don't have to get 238 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: it on the shelves, you don't need to worry about marketing, branding. 239 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: Look feel it's just like, oh god, that's if you 240 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: can just be the talent in inverted commas, it's such 241 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: an easier path. 242 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 4: Absolutely, and they did in America. They're looking after all 243 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 4: that side over there, and I mean, it just stuns 244 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 4: me that some places will have this book, which is 245 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 4: just makes me think, I just can't believe that's going 246 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 4: to happen. But over here they did say obviously because 247 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 4: of the distance, I have to do the heavy lifting 248 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 4: in terms of marketing and trying to move it. 249 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 3: But I don't mind that. Initially. 250 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 4: I find the difficult part about all that side of it, 251 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 4: especially with documentaries for me as well, is is I 252 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 4: just think you can tend to get to the point 253 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 4: where people are sick of you, do you know what 254 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 4: I mean? And I do because I've been around so 255 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 4: long with this sort of industry around in Melbourne anyway, 256 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 4: you know your call on the networks and you have 257 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 4: and they are they just they've been so wonderful to me. 258 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 4: They were so wonderful to rob you as you know, 259 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 4: in the past and look after me very well. But 260 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 4: there comes a point where I, you know, I did, 261 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 4: I did say to the publisher, I'll give it a 262 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 4: good go for a couple of weeks and then that'll 263 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 4: that'll do me from this end, and then I'll probably 264 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 4: crank it up again sometime next year. But yeah, I'm 265 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 4: not really comfortable with all that. I like, I don't 266 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 4: mind doing it when when asked, but you know, you 267 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 4: just got to think sometimes some some of the things 268 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 4: you do are not of the interest of what the 269 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 4: people are that you're looking to get on, you know. 270 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 2: I think also. 271 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: It's for somebody like you and a lot of people 272 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: who don't necessarily love talking about themselves, right or you know, 273 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: it's like it's just a thing you've got to do. 274 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: And I understand it, but I think. 275 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: It's never been more suited to to people like you. 276 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: Now because you can just do this, you. 277 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: Can just talk like it's not like, hey, we're willing 278 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: you out for four minutes on the Today Show. 279 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: Here he is and you've got to hey, everyone, yeah, 280 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: I'm Pete. Yep. Oh, the book's bloody amazing. And then 281 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: now we're off to a break. 282 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 1: You know those little soundbody quick, you're in makeup, you're 283 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: wearing a lapel mic. You've got to talk like a 284 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: chipmunk for three minutes. You've got to get the message out. 285 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: You've got to be this performing puppet like versus podcasting 286 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: now where we can talk about whatever we talk about. 287 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the book. We're going to 288 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: make people aware, We're going to hopefully sell a few 289 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: copies for you. We're going to get a little bit 290 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: of background and inside on the story and the journey. 291 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: But I think this kind of format, like for me, 292 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: I've worked on Telly, I worked on Channel ten for 293 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: three years, I worked on sen for fifteen, Like, I've 294 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: done bits and pieces of media, and for me, podcasting 295 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: is the best because there are literally no fucking rules. 296 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: You and I can for ten minutes or four hours, 297 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: doesn't matter. 298 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 3: That's that's right. Yeah. Are you Are you comfortable on 299 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 3: screen and so forth? Is that something you're comfortable with? Yeah? 300 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: I don't mind it. 301 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: I don't have any huge desire to be on Telly 302 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: or to have my head scene. I'm more like I'm fascinated, like, 303 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: and this is not just a sales pitch for the show, 304 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: like I'm genuinely fascinated with stories and human behavior and 305 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: high performance and you know the psychology of success and 306 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: failure and emotion, and like I'm I love just having 307 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: great conversations with people. And obviously if somebody rocked up 308 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: and said, you know, I actually got approached by the 309 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: ABC to do a pilot for a show Pete called 310 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: The Life Coach, and so they flew me into Sydney. 311 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: They had a whole audience. They had me and another 312 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: lady who was kind of a co host more with 313 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: me leading the way, her kind of bouncing off me, 314 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: and we had like, I don't know what it was, 315 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: seventy or eighty people in this audience and we did 316 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: this pilot show around you know, helping people get their 317 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: shit together essentially, and it went great. 318 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 2: We're better than I thought. 319 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: And you know, when then the team came up to 320 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: me and when you know the camera loves. 321 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,239 Speaker 2: You, you killed that. That was amazing. 322 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: It's not a matter of if, but when all this 323 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: stuff and as you know what I'm going to say, 324 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: you say to you, it fell over, right. So there's 325 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: so much uncertainty in mainstream media. Yes, and so firstly, 326 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: I'm very grateful for what I've done and where I've 327 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: been and what I've seen and what I now have. 328 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 2: Very grateful. So there's no. 329 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: I'm not pissed off about anything, but the amount of 330 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: people who say things that don't follow through on those things. 331 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, yeah happens. It happens in the documentary game too. 332 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 4: You know, yet promise that this is going to happen, 333 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 4: and so you set yourself up for the next twelve 334 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 4: months and it doesn't happen. 335 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 3: It kills you. It just kills you. 336 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it kills you. I mean, you can't plan. 337 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 4: It kills you, your direction in where you're heading, and 338 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 4: throws everything off balance. And I'm and I'm one of 339 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 4: those I think you know this, but even with this 340 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 4: book release, I'm I just get petrified at this point. 341 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 4: There's an element of me that feels like I'm the 342 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 4: biggest fraud in the history of frauds. And I've always 343 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 4: had that with the films you make, you put it out, 344 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 4: because then then I'm just petrified. 345 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 3: That any is anyone going to like this. I mean, 346 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 3: what am I doing? 347 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 4: And I think anyone who does what I do, I 348 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 4: think that's that's just part of the business. 349 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 3: That's just part of the I love. 350 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 4: I love the process of writing, a love of the 351 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 4: process of making films, but petrified at the end when 352 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 4: it's done. 353 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 3: That doesn't make any sense, and. 354 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: It makes all the sense I think that. Firstly, I 355 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: think feeling like an impost or a fraud. This is 356 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:00,719 Speaker 1: very counterintuitive and contrary to most opinions. I think it's good. 357 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. I think it's good because it 358 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: stops you from getting a fat head. It keeps you grounded, 359 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: like it makes you like I've said this a million 360 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: times to my listeners. I'm not a genius at all. 361 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: I was never like you or your brother. I didn't 362 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: have great genetics. I didn't have sporting talent. I wasn't 363 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: the funniest, I wasn't the fastest. I couldn't fucking sing. 364 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: You know, all of that mediocrity that was my starting point, 365 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: and then all the self doubt and the overthinking and 366 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: the fucking imposter syndrome that never goes far away. Like 367 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: I'm a good communicator and I can talk, but that 368 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm not fucking scared. 369 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: That doesn't mean. 370 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: You know, literally, I did a gig the other day 371 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: for AGL in the city, and it was quite a 372 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: big gig and it was two hours and it was 373 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: fair bit of dough and all of that and before 374 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: I got up, literally, and I've done it thousands of times. 375 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: People like, that's my job. I've been doing it since 376 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,959 Speaker 1: I was twenty five corporates. You know, I'm sitting on 377 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: this couch at the back of the room while this 378 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: MC is banging on about different stuff and then starts 379 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: to introduce. 380 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 2: Me and my bio. 381 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: You know, like forty years of stuff condensed into the 382 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: best shit I've ever done in thirty seconds. 383 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 4: Sounds pretty impressive. Impressive, Yeah, but it's funny. The more 384 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 4: they read that, it's almost like I wish there. 385 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: I'm like, let's set the bar lower so their expectations, 386 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: because when you read out my bio, it sounds like 387 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: fucking Superman's about to get up. Yes, you know, and 388 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: I still get up, mate, And that's self doubt, that 389 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: overthinking that. You know, that's normal, it's just fair. 390 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 3: But you know, I'm glad to say that. I'm glad. 391 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to make you feel better too. 392 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: And I've coached lots of people and it's the same 393 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: but here's this is what I think, right, So there's 394 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: humans have this ability to simultaneously feel not good enough 395 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: but know that you are right. It's like I can think, oh, fuck, 396 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: I'm I'm actually I've just been lucky for the last 397 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: thirty forty years. Like I'm like, if they actually find 398 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: out what goes in my head, what goes on in 399 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 1: my head? Fuck, nobody's going to want to listen because 400 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: I don't even have my own shit together. 401 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 2: So who am I to tell them? You know all that? 402 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 3: Right? 403 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 2: Why fuck listen? Yeah? 404 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: And it's like you you've never you've never done it, right, 405 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: of course you're not this, You're not that. I'm like, yeah, 406 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: I'm just an ex fat kid from fucking Ladro Valley. 407 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 2: All that shit happens. 408 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's this part of my 409 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: brain that goes yep, Roger that I see all of that, 410 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: I feel all of that. But also, Craig, you've literally 411 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: done this thousands of times. You've even done it for 412 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: this company and they asked you to come back, so 413 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: you can't be complete shit, you know. 414 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 2: So there's that there. 415 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: But I I sorry it's a long winded rant, but 416 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: I feel like that emotional stuff because it's all emotional, 417 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: it's all fear based. It's all you know, self doubt, 418 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: overthinking and feeling like a fraud, imposter syndrome, whatever you 419 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: want to call it. 420 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 2: It's all the same thing. And it's just a form 421 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 2: of fear. But fears is a motivator. 422 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 3: That just sums me up. 423 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 4: But I mean, I also I've also let I've also 424 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 4: shared the I had the. 425 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 3: What's the word I had. 426 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 4: The following Rob following Rob's efforts with films and you know, 427 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 4: keep doing them myself. I've always had that I'm not 428 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 4: good enough. I've never matched his level of brilliance. I've 429 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 4: always had that. 430 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 3: And I. 431 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 4: Thought I got to a place about Actually, last time 432 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 4: I spoke to you, once I wrote that book, I 433 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 4: thought I'd got to a place where I'd settled that 434 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 4: within myself. 435 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,239 Speaker 3: I thought, I am who I am, you know, I 436 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 3: do what I do. 437 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 4: And I sort of started to feel proud of myself 438 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 4: in that space of the documentaries. 439 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 3: And I think I think I reached out in documentaries. 440 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 4: But it's funny, I've just thrown myself back into the 441 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 4: into this timotacting arena with them with the book, writing 442 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 4: you know because compared to authors, compared to I'm nobody. 443 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 4: But I'm just All I'm doing is having a go. 444 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 4: And I think the only thing that holds me, holds 445 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 4: wait for me is the storytelling. And I think if 446 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 4: I have a gift, it is storytelling. And I've accepted 447 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 4: that now. So the way I write fiction is the 448 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 4: way I do documentaries. I craft it. I there's there's 449 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 4: three acts. I go through the whole process. This this 450 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 4: this fiction, which is based on elements of every single 451 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 4: person I've ever met. It has everything that I would 452 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 4: put into a film. It has it has humor, it 453 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 4: has emotion. You'll laugh, you'll cry, You'll you'll get to 454 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 4: know characters, You'll feel like you you're connected to those characters. 455 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 3: That's what I tried to get out of it. 456 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 4: And I was talking about this yesterday, trying to find 457 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 4: resolution with those characters. But one of the most difficult 458 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 4: things with fiction is you get to the end. And 459 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 4: sometimes I read books and go, I'm not quite. I 460 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,239 Speaker 4: don't think I'm done, you know, I don't think I've 461 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 4: got to where I want to get with these characters. 462 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 4: But I think I've managed to do that here. 463 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 3: After one thousand rewrites back. 464 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 4: It's essentially for those who if they do like the 465 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 4: way I tell stories, I think they'll like this book. 466 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 3: And that's all I can ask. I'm not out here 467 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 3: to if you know it well. 468 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: I also think it's important that people know it's about golf, 469 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: but it's not really about golf. And I think when 470 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,719 Speaker 1: I first saw it's called The Embedded Lie everyone. By 471 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: the way, when I first saw the cover, I went, cheese, 472 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know the book about golf. 473 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, mate, a book about golf. That's the smallest 474 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: fucking market. 475 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 2: Ever, are you really? 476 00:23:58,840 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah? 477 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: And then and then I started to understand what the 478 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: book was. I'm like, oh, dude, this is not this 479 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: is not about golf. Golf is just like a reoccurring theme. 480 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: It's about relationships and people and communication and connection and 481 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: like a whole bunch of the human experience stuff. 482 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 483 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 4: So the publisher had came back with thoughts on covers 484 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 4: and it was an interesting process. 485 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 3: I'm not sure if this is of interest to you, 486 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 3: but definitely. So. 487 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 4: My initial thoughts was the seaside setting, because it is 488 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 4: based around the Point Lonsdale, sort of Ballerine area, and 489 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 4: I threw that to them. My daughter Abby, who's very artistic. 490 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 4: She sort of painted this little sort of image of 491 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 4: what I had in my head, and the publisher saw it. 492 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 3: It was very impressed and sort of thing. Yeah, so 493 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 3: they had. 494 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 4: That same sort of reservation about you know, is it golf. 495 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 4: But I think it's a beautiful cover. It's sort of 496 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 4: but again, you're right, I think it'll throw a lot 497 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 4: of people off, But in the end, I just thought 498 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 4: it's perfectly fitting for what the story is. That it's 499 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 4: sort of set around the game, if you like. There's 500 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 4: a little bit of a sort of a love letter 501 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 4: to sport, to golf. And I've stayed in my lane 502 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 4: with this as well. My lane is sport, my lane 503 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 4: is documentaries, and this within this story is a documentary, 504 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,479 Speaker 4: is made within the fiction story. So and it's very 505 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 4: much about relationships of very much about family dynamics, very 506 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 4: much about friendships over decades and the ups and downs 507 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 4: of that. And the ten percent element of the book 508 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 4: is golf. 509 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 3: So you're right, it. 510 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 4: Probably will throw people off at the cover, but it's 511 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 4: just looking at it now. 512 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'm happy with it. Are you never 513 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 3: really happy with it? I'm not sure, but yeah, yeah. 514 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,479 Speaker 1: But I think that's part of being like I reckon 515 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: And I could be totally wrong with this because. 516 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 2: But just just. 517 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: Going back for a moment to you and Rob, like 518 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: what was like this creative and energetic force, like this charismatic, 519 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, confident, charming, cheeky, all that, right, But I 520 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: feel like with you your You've got skills and qualities 521 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 1: and attributes that are brilliant that he didn't have. Like 522 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: I feel for you, You're you're more measured, You're more 523 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: you're probably more cautious, but probably more structured and process 524 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: driven and box ticking and accountability. And whereas Rob was 525 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: like a dog with three dicks, Rob was just like yes, yeah, yeah, 526 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: and whereas like he was just a force. 527 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 2: But it's like. 528 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 1: We needed to almost like wrangle him, like just to 529 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: go that's good. But you know, one thing at a time. 530 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 4: Not thirteen Yes, when we were in business together doing 531 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 4: our docos, was I was constantly trying to wrangle him in. 532 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 4: And I think I wasted a few years of my 533 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 4: own sort of creative element by trying to keep Rob 534 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 4: on track, because he was such a powerful force, as 535 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 4: you said, and he so creative and could hold a 536 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 4: room walk in. 537 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 3: You know, everyone was aware Rob was there. It's charismatic. 538 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 3: I'm not like that. I'm a bit more quieter and reserved. 539 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 4: I can do it if I want to, but I 540 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 4: just it doesn't It's not as if Rob tried to 541 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 4: do it. 542 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 3: I think it was just him. It was just the 543 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 3: way he was. 544 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 4: But yeah, you're right, I'm a bit more measured. I 545 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 4: sort of, as I like to say, was always kind 546 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 4: of a bass player in the hilarious yeah up the front, 547 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 4: you know, and I'm just sort of plugging away behind 548 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 4: the scenes. And so if anything, I've had to, I've 549 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 4: had to put myself out the front of that after 550 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 4: his passing with what I've done, and it's not easy 551 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 4: for me at all. But yeah, I'm a lot different 552 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 4: to him, and I like to think, and this is 553 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 4: another thing about the riding, to be honest, it has. 554 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 3: Released me from the shackles. 555 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 4: Of Rob in the sense that I'm doing something that 556 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 4: he didn't do, and I don't. 557 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 3: I don't. He probably could have the prick, you know, 558 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 3: I bet you we could have if he wanted to. 559 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 4: But I've got something that's mine now, like because forever 560 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 4: in a day. When I do sports documentaries, I release 561 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 4: them and the first thing people talk about is the 562 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 4: legacy of Rob. 563 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 3: And doctors and I love it. I love it. 564 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 4: I love his name being still mentioned. But there is 565 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 4: part of me that can't escape the fact that am 566 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 4: I doing this because of Rob kind of thing? Whereas 567 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 4: these books, especially this one, is fiction. This is this 568 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 4: is out of the box in terms of something I 569 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 4: doubt Rob would have ever done. So there is a 570 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 4: there is a slight satisfaction in that. 571 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yeah, and you love your brother, and you 572 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: always love your brother, but it's your your you. 573 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 2: He was him and you don't. 574 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: Have to live in his shadow, and neither would he 575 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: want you to or you know, and you've got your 576 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: own talent and your own path. Hey, I wanted to 577 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: ask you what surprised you about the fiction writing process, Like, 578 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: was there anything where you went off? Is it twenty 579 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: times harder? Or this is easy? Like what not came up? 580 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,479 Speaker 4: Well, what's surprising you was how bloody hard it is. 581 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 4: You're right, It's just it's so difficult. I had no 582 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 4: idea how difficult it was to I make shit up. 583 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 3: That is interesting. There's a lot of there's a lot. 584 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 4: Of elements of this that I've based on real events, 585 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 4: But you can't just it's a biography then if you 586 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 4: go that way. 587 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 3: So what I had to do is even. 588 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 4: As simple things, Craig, is what am I going to 589 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 4: name these characters? 590 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 3: Now? 591 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 4: You think that's easy, It's bloody hard. What relationships do 592 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 4: they have with each other? 593 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 2: What? 594 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,719 Speaker 3: It just goes on and on and on. 595 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 4: So the further I got into writing, I started to, 596 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,959 Speaker 4: I feel the first half when I wrote it, it was okay. 597 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 4: The second half I got into my groove and it 598 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 4: took about ten eleven months, and because I was in 599 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 4: between documentaries and waiting for the call, waiting for the 600 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 4: next funding, I had time on my hands. And the 601 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 4: problem with me is I can't do anything else. Like 602 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 4: I look at everyone else's occupation and I'm jealous of 603 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 4: how other people operate their lives because I don't have 604 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 4: any other options. My options are storytelling and documentary and 605 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 4: it's a it's a prick of an industry for that, 606 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 4: for constant work, for a constant income. 607 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 3: I'm just sometimes just bloody lucky that I've got a 608 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 3: wife who's a doctor. 609 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 4: To be honest, in these periods where I'm not earning 610 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 4: as much. 611 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 3: As I should. 612 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 4: You know, there's coverage there, so and she backs me 613 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 4: all the way with that. But yeah, it's it's hard, 614 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 4: it's it's a grind. I'm I'm a pretty good The 615 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 4: thing about writing is I'm I'm a world class typist. 616 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 3: I must admit. One of the one of the most. 617 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 4: Bizarre things that ever was when I worked at the 618 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 4: National Safety Council with Rob years ago. One of the 619 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 4: first things they taught me was how to type, which 620 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 4: I look back now and go, that's one of the 621 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 4: greatest things I. 622 00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 3: Ever got from the National Safety Council. 623 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 4: Because I can without looking type fast, so I can 624 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 4: punch through manuscripts and words, and I generally averaged when 625 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 4: I was really pumping it out about three to four 626 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 4: thousand a. 627 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 3: Day what words. 628 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 4: So I was So what that process is is I'm 629 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 4: just in the zone and I'm writing, and I'm in 630 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 4: the characters. 631 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 3: And I'm feeling it, and I'm I get through it. 632 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 3: That has to be reworked a lot what I've just written, 633 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 3: but I'm getting there. I'm pushing through the story. 634 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 4: So I have an ability to do that, which I 635 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 4: did not know before I started writing the first book, 636 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 4: I did not know I had that at all. Right, 637 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 4: I've always I'm not a greater student by any means, 638 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 4: and when I look back at my schooling, English was 639 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 4: clearly my best subject any mathematics. I can't even look 640 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 4: at my son's year eight stuff. I just don't know 641 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 4: what he's talking about, you know what I mean. 642 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,719 Speaker 3: I'm no good but yeah, so English, so and essays. 643 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 3: I always was good at essays, but I never. 644 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 4: Put it into practice in a working sense until now. 645 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 4: So maybe there is something there, and I'd like to 646 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 4: do another one. I think it can only get better 647 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 4: now that I've got one out of the way. But again, 648 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 4: it's how much you commit to this genre of storytelling, 649 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 4: because you know, you've got to get to a point 650 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 4: where you realize you're not going to make a schoolion 651 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 4: dollars from it. It's more self satisfaction really, unless you 652 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 4: get a big published, get an agent, and get it 653 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 4: out there. 654 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: You know, I've been mentoring a young guy for years, 655 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: like he came in one of my programs when he 656 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: was nineteen, met him when he was seventeen or eight, 657 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: and he's thirty six. Now. 658 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 2: I would love to get you two together. You would 659 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 2: love him. 660 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: He actually he reminds me a little bit of Rob 661 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: in that he's good looking, as charismatic as fuck. He's charming, 662 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: he's very likable. It's got a couple of kids and 663 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: a wife is thirty. Tommy his name is Tommy Jacket, 664 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: and he's making docos and he just started, you know, 665 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: just like fifteen years ago, filming stuff with me little things, 666 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: and now he just came back from the States. He 667 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: spent nearly two months with a team of seven, fully 668 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,879 Speaker 1: funded by private equity for a fair bit of dough. 669 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 2: I know how much dode like, not insignificant and. 670 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, he like but he's he's killed himself to get 671 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: to this point where they went to the States and 672 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: they filmed a doco around gun culture and basically the 673 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: psychology of Americans and their guns and relationships with their 674 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: guns through the lens of Australians. 675 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 2: I've seen some of the footage. It's fucking amazing. 676 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: And he's like you, he's a really good storyteller and 677 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: like the of his stuff is like television better than 678 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: like it's great. 679 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 2: You would love it. 680 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: You would love him, But yeah, I don't know why 681 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: I told you that in the middle of the podcast. 682 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: But I just see a lot of not that necessarily 683 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: you would do anything together. 684 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 2: But I think he's a kindred spirit, like he would 685 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 2: just thinking that. 686 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 3: I was actually just thinking those terms. It sounds like 687 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 3: a kindred spirit. 688 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: He would get you, and you would get him, and 689 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: he would go, mate, what about this? 690 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 2: And you go, ah, fuck, let me tell you a 691 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 2: story about that. 692 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: And he's always trying to get you know, things up 693 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: and getting funding and you know the stuff that he 694 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 1: does produce though, and it's now it's you know, it's 695 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: like he goes to the States with two or three 696 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: camera people and the sound people and a production manager 697 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: and like the whole you know, it's not like it's 698 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: a cast of thousands, but it's you know, they spent 699 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: lots of dough and you know, they've got hundreds of 700 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: hours of footage. They've got to turn it into a 701 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,280 Speaker 1: ninety minute docco that is going to be on hopefully 702 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: some streaming platform. 703 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 4: And but yeah, we might way to go. Yeah's love 704 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 4: to me. Private EQUI is a good way to fund it. 705 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 4: That's a nice way to go. 706 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I might we should organize a coffee you and 707 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: me and him, you love it, you too would like 708 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: each other, Like he's one of those dudes where you're like, ah, 709 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: you know some people. This is going to sound weird, 710 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: but I don't want to give you a fat head Tommy, 711 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: but like some people, you like being around them, Like 712 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: you walk away feeling more positive and more energized. 713 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 2: And it's not a. 714 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: Drain, like there are a percentage of people, not a 715 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: lot that I walk away from them like I feel 716 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: like I've been just fucking backstroking and quicksand emotional quicksand 717 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,919 Speaker 1: like set me out. Yes that's hard, and every time 718 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 1: it's like, oh god, it's hard. 719 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 2: But he's the opposite. But anyway, we'll see if we 720 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 2: can look that up. Mate. I love chatting with you. 721 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 2: The book is called The Embedded Lie. Everybody. 722 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: I'm super proud of you. You're a gun, You're a 723 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: good human. I love your humility but also your talent 724 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: and your creativity. Thanks for coming out to play mate, 725 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: Thanks for chatting to me again, and we love you 726 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: being on the You project and we're always going to 727 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: support you and you know we'll get you back. 728 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 2: Again when you're doing your next thing whatever that looks like. 729 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 3: I'm just so grateful to you, mate for this chat. 730 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 3: I love it. 731 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 4: I love speaking to you. I I adore reconnecting with 732 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 4: Rob's best mates. For some reason, it really warms my heart. 733 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 4: And you're one of them, and I it makes me 734 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 4: feel a bit closer to him when I do so. 735 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 3: I love that. 736 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 4: Supporting my work, Craig, You've been amazing and this book. 737 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 4: It's available at my website Peterdison dot com dot are 738 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 4: you if anyone wants to have a read eye But 739 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 4: to you personally, I love chatting with you and I 740 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 4: just appreciate it so much, mate. 741 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: Mate, It's a pleasure and it's win win, definitely win win. 742 00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: We'll have a chat off air in a minute. But 743 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: for the moment, mate, the books called The Embedded lie By. 744 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: Christmas is coming, everybody, come by ten. I cannot be 745 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: lazy good if Christmas is coming. Just get ten and 746 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: we'll say goodbye. 747 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 2: We'll say goodbye off here in a moment. But for now, mate, 748 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 2: thanks for being on the You project. 749 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,800 Speaker 3: Cheers mate, I appreciate it.