1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: I got a You Bloody Champions, Welcome to another installment 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: on the You projector's harps. Who else would it be. 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: It's a it's a bloody Wednesday. It's twelve thirty five 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: and the thriving tropolis of Melbourne, and I'm chatting with 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: one of my best friend in the world, Rip Dicko, 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: who's not with us anymore. 7 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 2: Love that man, Still love that man. 8 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: I also love his brother, who is I'm going to 9 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: be honest, not quite as good as Dicko was, but 10 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: he's about ninety five percent. 11 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: And that's okay. I mean because he was a gun. 12 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: That's so mate, you been ninety five percent of as 13 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: good as your brother. 14 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 2: That's all right, isn't it. 15 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 3: I'd take ninety five percent, I'd take eighty percent. Yeah. 16 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 3: Great to be here and go on. I love I 17 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 3: love speaking with you, and I'm very grateful that you 18 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 3: got me on again. I love having chats with you. 19 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, mate, I love it. And I'm being silly. 20 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: Of course. 21 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: You're one hundred percent Pete Dixon, and you're a ripper 22 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: in your own right. Your brother was a beauty and 23 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: you know, but it's good to catch up with you again. 24 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: Mate, and what do you I know, you've just put 25 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: out a book. 26 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that. But it's been a 27 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: while since you've been on here. And so for those 28 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: who've been living under rock, Dick O is a director, 29 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: an award winning filmmaker, and now a two time author, 30 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: one fiction, one not real life will call the other one. 31 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what we call it faction, But other 32 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: than writing a new book, what have you been up 33 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: to for the last few years? 34 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I finished that book with about Rob he 35 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 3: was my brother, and then sort of went into a 36 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 3: what happens is I sort of in between projects. It's 37 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 3: a tumultuous time for me, really, because there's a few 38 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: things that happened. A I come down from a high 39 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 3: after being creatively active for so long, and then then 40 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 3: I get into the anxious part of it, where what's next? 41 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: And you know this game is you're really up and 42 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 3: down all the time, and you're hoping that you can 43 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 3: fund the next project. You're hoping you have something that 44 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 3: you passionately can work on. So it's been a bit 45 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 3: lean in the documentary space for independence such as myself. 46 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 3: Over the last few years, it's getting worse it's just 47 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 3: getting really hard to fund documentaries in the sporting space. 48 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 3: That the networks used to pay, they don't pay anymore. 49 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 3: So I in between these books, I had a good project, 50 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: a Carlton project, which was half funded by Carlton, half 51 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 3: funded independently, and so I had a great chance to 52 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: do a documentary on that that was released this year, 53 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 3: and that was on Fox and in between that went 54 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 3: really well. Yeah, yeah, it was great. It was about 55 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: the nineteen seventy It was a sort of a homage 56 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 3: to the past, the nineteen seventy Grand Final team, and 57 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 3: I managed to speak to both Carlton and Collingwood, most 58 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 3: of the players before, I mean the getting old. So 59 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: it was a good chance to. 60 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: Grab did you talk for Jesus still alive? 61 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 3: Jess is still alive, but he is not in great shape. 62 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 3: So I used archival stuff for Jez. I mean, there's 63 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: a few of them that are really battling, so you 64 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 3: had to sort of be very choosy with that. But 65 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,679 Speaker 3: so that came out. But in between what's happened since 66 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 3: I wrote that book. He was my brother. I really 67 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 3: enjoyed that process. I remember talking to out last time. 68 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 3: I really it's sort of felled a void for me 69 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 3: in the story and telling sense without documentaries, and so 70 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 3: I thought, I think I might try fiction. I was 71 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 3: asked to write fiction and one of my mentors, and 72 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 3: I thought, I don't think I've got the words for fiction. 73 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 3: I think it's and it's a really difficult thing to do. 74 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: And anyway, I had an idea that's been in my 75 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,119 Speaker 3: head for a while, and I went ahead and had 76 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 3: a crack and I remember the first few chapters. I 77 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 3: thought I was flying. I thought this is the greatest 78 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 3: peed of work. And I remember sending it to one 79 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: of those mentors and the reaction was, what is this shit? 80 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: So really, yeah, it put me straight back in my box. 81 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: But it was more about, you know, the writing was good. 82 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 3: They liked the writing. It's just that there was no 83 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 3: story to the first few chapters, which I sort of 84 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 3: it was a good punch in the face straight up. 85 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 3: So I changed attack on the whole thing and I 86 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 3: went back to the drawing board, and a thousand edits later, 87 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: I had a manuscript, and to my shock, it got 88 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: picked up by a US publisher. 89 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: So, and as somebody who's I've been published by a 90 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: few publishers, like Jeff'slattery Publishing. 91 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 2: You would know him. 92 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: In fact, your brother, your brother introduced me, God bless him. 93 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: He introduced me to jeff'slatter AKAIFL Publishing and Penguin I 94 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: published with, And so I understand then I'm self published. 95 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: I understand the journey and the process. And when I 96 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 1: spoke to you the other day briefly and you told 97 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: me that it got picked up by us published, I'm like, 98 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: how the fuck did you do that? 99 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: Dude? 100 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: Like that is so for a first time fiction? Like 101 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: to them, you're with respect like me, You're a nobody 102 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: to them, Oh, absolute blank, yep, you're a literary nobody 103 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: in America, just like me. 104 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: Well you, I mean not to me, mate, it's special, 105 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 2: but to them. 106 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: So for them to actually pick it up that you 107 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: must have been quite I mean, first of it was 108 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: amazing and you deserve it and well done. 109 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: But it's very rare that that happens. 110 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 3: It's so rare. And I mean because I'm not a 111 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: well known writer by any means. I mean in a 112 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 3: documentary space, yes, but in writing, I don't have an 113 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 3: agent as a writer, and to get an agent is bloody. 114 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 3: I mean, the stats on that are one in six thousand. 115 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 3: It's ridiculously difficult to get an agent. So I couldn't 116 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 3: send the manuscript to the big publishers here in Australia 117 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 3: because they just don't look at it unless your age, 118 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 3: you have an agent. I sent the manuscript off to 119 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: a few of the local independent publishers indie publishers in 120 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 3: Australia and got some rejections. You just know you're going 121 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 3: to get rejected in this book game. So that was fine. 122 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 3: Gold fiction not really their genre. So for some didn't 123 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 3: get past the first chapter blah blah blah. So I 124 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 3: started to target US and UK publishers and I got one. 125 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 3: I sent one and I remember looking at it initially 126 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 3: thinking they're not going to accept this because the big 127 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 3: in big red writing splashed across the portal page was 128 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 3: we only accept US authors, so I thought, and I 129 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 3: was in that stage where I'm just going to send 130 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: it to everyone. So I sent it off lo and behold, 131 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 3: a couple of weeks after that and I'm still, to 132 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: be honest, I sent this manuscript off, I don't know, 133 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 3: six months ago, it to various places. I'm still getting 134 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,679 Speaker 3: responses that they haven't read it yet so it takes forever. 135 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 3: It's glacier speed, this sort of stuff. So I'd be whole. 136 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 3: We horrified if an Australian one comes back soon and 137 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 3: says they would take it. But anyway, because I've signed 138 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: off for three years. But anyway, they came back and said, look, 139 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: we have read the first few chapters and we want 140 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: to keep reading. So to us that means we're interested. 141 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: We will get back to you. And I was shocked 142 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: because I realized that that was this place that so 143 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 3: then you're sort of on tenderhooks, just waiting and waiting. 144 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 3: And anyway, about two or three weeks later they came 145 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 3: to step Because it's all email, they came back and said, 146 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: we would like to publish your book simply. That was 147 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 3: simply the line, and I to be honest, I cried 148 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 3: to be honest. And because I'm an emotional unit, I 149 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: don't blame you. Yeah, I'm emotional. And this was one 150 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 3: of those ones where I never really thought I was 151 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 3: actually prepared next year great to sort of go, look, 152 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: I'll even do it myself if I have to, just 153 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 3: just to get the story out there. But so the 154 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 3: next phase of that was you have to sign over 155 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: for three years and they look after everything else. They 156 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 3: are a massive publisher in the States in terms of 157 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 3: their online presence. I don't care either way. I'm just 158 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 3: happy that someone's taken it. And what they're telling me 159 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 3: is that online is the only way to go. They 160 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 3: bookstores are dying off in America apparently, so everything they 161 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 3: do is pushed hard online around the world, and they 162 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 3: have around the world access and for printing, so if 163 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 3: people go into a bookstore here, they won't be on 164 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 3: the shelf, but they just have to asked for the 165 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 3: title and it'll be there the next day because they 166 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 3: have distribution centers in Australia, funnily enough in daniel On, 167 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 3: which is in Victoria. So they sent me a bunch 168 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 3: which I'm actually selling through my website, which is quicker 169 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 3: for people and cheaper. But yeah, it was amazing and 170 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 3: I'm forever grateful to them, and they have been nothing 171 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 3: but supportive and warm. They're always there. I mean, I'm 172 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 3: just amazed at the relationship that they offer, and to 173 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 3: be honest, it's not a big money spit turning thing 174 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 3: the book market, and just the fact they're doing this 175 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 3: and they believed in the book astounds me, but there 176 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 3: was another reason to it. There is a bit of 177 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 3: an American flavor to it. It is about the masters, 178 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 3: it is about playing golf for a green Master's jacket, 179 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 3: so it's a hat tip to the masters, and I 180 00:09:54,240 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 3: think I think that was something that attracted them. I 181 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 3: like to think that they liked the writing, but I 182 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 3: think that was something that was a bit unusual. And 183 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 3: then I found out that I was only one of 184 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: two authors in Australia they have. 185 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 2: So I was and I heard you on SCN and 186 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: you don't know who the other one is, right, No, I. 187 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 3: Don't know who the other one is. And it was 188 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 3: funny the guys were saying a bit flat that you're 189 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 3: not the only one. I don't know who the other 190 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 3: one is and I don't know the book. But yeah, 191 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 3: I just think for them to do that, they I'm 192 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 3: forever grateful. And so three years and yeah they have it. 193 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 3: They have the rights to it for three years. So 194 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 3: now it's it's kind of it's funny. It's sort of 195 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 3: there's this big hype around right now it's released and 196 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: you get all excited, but then a couple of weeks time, 197 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 3: as you know, with these things. It's all done. It's 198 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 3: all done. 199 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: What's interesting What I love about like when I signed with, 200 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: you know, both of different publishers I signed with. What 201 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: I love is it's like it dawns on you that 202 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,239 Speaker 1: it's in their interest to sell lots of books. 203 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, do you know what I mean? 204 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: Like they are highly motivated to sell your book and 205 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 1: so all the shit that you don't want to do, 206 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: Like I mean, and I know you're something of an introvert, 207 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: and I know how much you love pr and talking publicly, right, 208 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: so I guess they've kind of, you know, charged you 209 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: with doing exactly what you're doing now, which is talking 210 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: to various forms of media about the book, which you're 211 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: very good at. But what is great is in terms 212 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: of building a network and getting it into stores or 213 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: getting it into hands whatever formatic comes in, you know, 214 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: whether it's an ebook or whether it's a physical book 215 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: or eventually is it going to be audio eventually or no. 216 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 3: Yes, they have tie with that will happen. They're just 217 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 3: waiting to see how it goes in the first few months. 218 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean having all of the back end 219 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: taken care of where you don't have to l shit, 220 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: you don't have to distribute, you don't have to get 221 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: it on shelves, you don't need to worry about marketing, branding. 222 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: Look feel it's just like, oh god, that's if you 223 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: can just be the talent in inverted commas, it's such 224 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: an easier path. 225 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and they did in America. They're looking after all 226 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 3: that side over there, and I mean, it just stuns 227 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 3: me that some places will have this book, which is 228 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 3: just makes me think, I just can't believe that's going 229 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 3: to happen. But over here they did say obviously because 230 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 3: of the distance, I have to do the heavy lifting 231 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 3: in terms of marketing and trying to move it. But 232 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 3: I don't mind that. Initially. I find the difficult part 233 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 3: about all that side of it, especially with documentaries for 234 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 3: me as well, is is I just think you can 235 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 3: tend to get to the point where people are sick 236 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 3: of you, do you know what I mean? And I 237 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 3: do because I've been around so long with this sort 238 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: of industry around in Melbourne anyway, you know your call 239 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 3: on the networks and you have and they are they 240 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 3: just they've been so wonderful to me. They were so 241 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 3: wonderful to rob you as you know in the past 242 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 3: and look after me very well. But there comes a 243 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 3: point where I, you know, I did, I did say 244 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 3: to the publisher, I'll give it a good go for 245 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 3: a couple of weeks and then that'll that'll do me 246 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 3: from this end, and then I'll probably crank it up 247 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 3: again sometime next year. But yeah, I'm not really comfortable 248 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: with all that. I like, I don't mind doing it 249 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 3: when asked, but you know, you just got to think 250 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 3: sometimes some some of the things you do are not 251 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 3: of the interest of what the people are that you're 252 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 3: looking to get on, you know. 253 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 2: I think also. 254 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: It's for somebody like you and a lot of people 255 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: who don't necessarily love talking about themselves, right or you know, 256 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: it's like it's just a thing you've got to do. 257 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: And I understand it, but I think. 258 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: It's never been more suited to to people like you 259 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: now because you can just do this, you can just 260 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: talk like it's not like, hey, we're willing you out 261 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: for four minutes on the Today Show. Here he is 262 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: and you've got to hey, everyone, yeah, I'm Pete. Yep. 263 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 2: Oh, the book's bloody amazing. And then now we're off 264 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 2: to a break. 265 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: You know, those little soundbody quick, you're in makeup, you're 266 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: wearing a lapel mic. You've got to talk like a 267 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: chipmunk for three minutes. You've got to get the message out. 268 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: You've got to be this performing puppet like versus podcasting. 269 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: Now where we can talk about whatever we talk about. 270 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: We're going to talk about the book. 271 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: We're going to make people aware, We're going to hopefully 272 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: sell a few copies for you. We're going to get 273 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: a little bit of background and inside on the story 274 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: and the journey. But I think this kind of format, 275 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: Like for me, I've worked on Telly, I worked on 276 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: Channel ten three years, I worked on sen for fifteen, Like, 277 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: I've done bits and pieces of media, and for me, 278 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: podcasting is the best because there are literally no fucking rules. 279 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: You and I can chat for ten minutes or four hours, 280 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 2: doesn't matter. 281 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 3: That's that's right. Yeah. Are you so? Are you comfortable 282 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 3: on screen and so forth? Is that something you're comfortable with? 283 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't mind it. I don't have any huge 284 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: desire to be on Telly or to have my head scene. 285 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: I'm more like, I'm fascinated, like and this is not 286 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: just a sales pitch for the show, like, I'm genuinely 287 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: fascinated with stories and human behavior and high performance and 288 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: you know, the psychology of success and failure and emotion, 289 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: and like I'm I love just having great conversations with people. 290 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: And obviously if somebody rocked up and said, you know, 291 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: I actually got approached by the ABC to do a 292 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: pilot for a show Pete called The Life Coach, And 293 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: so they flew into Sydney. They had a whole audience. 294 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: They had me and another lady who was kind of 295 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: a co host more with me leading the way, her 296 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: kind of bouncing off me, and we like, I don't 297 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: know what it was, seventy or eighty people in this 298 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: audience and we did this pilot show around you know, 299 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: helping people get their shit together essentially, and it went great. 300 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 2: We're better than I thought. 301 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: And you know, when then the team came up to 302 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: me and when you know, the camera loves. 303 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 2: You, you killed that. That was amazing. 304 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: It's not a matter of if, but when all this 305 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: stuff and as you know what I'm going to say, 306 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: you say to you, it fell over, right. So there's 307 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: so much uncertainty in mainstream media. 308 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 3: Yes, and so. 309 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: Firstly, I'm very grateful for what I've done and where 310 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: I've been and what I've seen and what I now have. 311 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: Very grateful. So there's no. 312 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm not pissed off about anything, but the amount of 313 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: people who say things that don't follow through on those things. 314 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, yeah happens. It happens in the documentary game too. 315 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 3: You know, yet, promise that this is going to happen, 316 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 3: and so you set yourself up for the next twelve 317 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 3: months and it doesn't happen. It kills you. It just 318 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: kills you. Yeah, and it kills you. I mean, you 319 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 3: can't plan. It kills you, your direction in where you're heading, 320 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 3: and throws everything off balance. And I'm and I'm one 321 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: of those I think you know this, but even with 322 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 3: this book release, I'm I just get petrified. At this point. 323 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: There's an element of me that feels like I'm the 324 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 3: biggest fraud in the history of frauds. And I've always 325 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 3: had that with the films you make, you put it out, 326 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 3: because then then I'm just petrified that any is anyone 327 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 3: going to like this? I mean, what am I doing? 328 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 3: And I think anyone who does what I do, I 329 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 3: think that's that's just part of the business. That's just 330 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 3: part of the I love. I love the process of writing, 331 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: a love the processes making films, but petrified at the 332 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 3: end when it's done. That doesn't make any sense, and. 333 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: It makes all of sense. I think that. Firstly, I 334 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: think feeling like an impost or a fraud. This is 335 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: very counterintuitive and contrary to most opinions. I think it's good. 336 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. I think it's good because it 337 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: stops you from getting a fat head. It keeps you grounded, 338 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: like it makes you like I've said this a million 339 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: times to my listeners. I'm not a genius at all. 340 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: I was never like you or your brother. I didn't 341 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: have great genetics. I didn't have sporting talent. I wasn't 342 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: the funniest, I wasn't the fastest. I couldn't fucking sing, 343 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: you know, all of that mediocrity that was my starting point, 344 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: and then all the self doubt and the overthinking and 345 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: the fucking imposter syndrome that never goes far away. Like 346 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: I'm a good communicator and I can talk, but that 347 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm not fucking scared. That doesn't mean, you know, literally, 348 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: I did a gig the other day for AGL in 349 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: the city and it was quite a big gig and 350 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: it was two hours and it was fair bit of 351 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: dough and all of that and before I got up, literally, 352 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: and I've done it thousands of times. People like, that's 353 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: my job. I've been doing it since I was twenty five, 354 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: going to corporates. You know, I'm sitting on this couch 355 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: at the back of the room while this MC is 356 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: banging on about different stuff and then starts to introduce 357 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: me and my bio. You know, like forty years of 358 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: stuff condensed into the best shit I've ever done in 359 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: thirty seconds sounds pretty impressive. 360 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 3: Impressive, Yeah, But it's funny. 361 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 2: The more they read that, it's almost like I wish there. 362 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 2: I'm like, let's set the bar lower, sow their expectations, because. 363 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: When you read out my bio, it sounds like fucking 364 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: Superman's about to get up. Yes, you know, and I 365 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: still get up, mate, And that's self doubt, that overthinking that. 366 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 2: You know, that's normal, it's just fair. 367 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 3: But you know, I'm glad to say that. Glad. 368 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to make you feel better too. And 369 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 2: I've coached lots of people and it's the same. 370 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: But here's this is what I think, right, So there's 371 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: humans have this ability to simultaneously feel not good enough 372 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: but know that you are right. It's like I can think, oh, fuck, 373 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: I'm I'm actually I've just been lucky for the last 374 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: thirty forty years. Like I'm like, if they actually find 375 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: out what goes in my head, what goes on in 376 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: my head? Fuck, nobody's going to want to listen because 377 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: I don't even have my own shit together. 378 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 2: So who am I to tell them? You know all that? 379 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 3: Right? 380 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 2: Why that fuck listen? Yeah? 381 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: And it's like you you've never you've never done it, right, 382 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: of course you're not this, You're not that. I'm like, yeah, 383 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 1: I'm just an ex fat kid from fucking Ladro Valley. 384 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: All that shit happens. But at the same time, there's 385 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: this part of my brain that goes yep, Roger that 386 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: I see all of that, I feel all of that. 387 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: But also, Craig, you've literally done this thousands of times. 388 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: You've even done it for this company and they asked 389 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: you to come back, so you can't. 390 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 2: Be complete shit, you know. So there's that there. 391 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: But I I sorry it's a long winded rant, but 392 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: I feel like that emotional stuff because it's all emotional, 393 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: it's all fear based. It's all you know, self doubt, 394 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: overthinking and feeling like a fraud, imposter syndrome, whatever you 395 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: want to call it. It's all the same thing. And 396 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 1: it's just a form of fear. But fear is a motivator. 397 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 3: That just sums me up. But I mean, I also 398 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 3: I've also let I've also shared the I had the 399 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 3: what's the word I had the following Rob following Rob's 400 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 3: efforts with films and you know, keep doing them myself. 401 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 3: I've always had that I'm not good enough. I've never 402 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 3: matched his level of brilliance. I've always had that. And 403 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 3: I thought I got to a place about Actually, last 404 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 3: time I spoke to you, once I wrote that book, 405 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 3: I thought I'd got to a place where I'd settled 406 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 3: that within myself. I thought, I am who I am, 407 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 3: you know, I do what I do. And I sort 408 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 3: of started to feel proud of myself in that space 409 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 3: of the documentaries. And I think, I think I've reached 410 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 3: out in documentaries. But it's funny, I've just thrown myself 411 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 3: back into the into this simodacting arena with them with 412 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 3: the book, writing you know, because compared to authors, you know, 413 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 3: compared to I'm nobody. But I'm just All I'm doing 414 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 3: is having a go. And I think the only thing 415 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 3: that holds me, holds wait for me is the storytelling. 416 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 3: And I think if I have a gift, it is storytelling. 417 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 3: And I've accepted that now. So the way I write 418 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 3: fiction is the way I do documentaries. I craft it. 419 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 3: I there's three acts. I go through the whole process. 420 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 3: This this this fiction, which is based on elements of 421 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 3: every single person I've ever met. It has everything that 422 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 3: I would put into a film. It has it has humor, 423 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 3: it has emotion. You'll laugh, you'll cry, You'll You'll get 424 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 3: to know characters, You'll feel like you you're connected to 425 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 3: those characters. That's what I tried to get out of it. 426 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 3: And I was talking about this yesterday, trying to find 427 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 3: resolution with those characters. But one of the most difficult 428 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 3: things with fiction is you get to the end. And 429 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 3: sometimes I read books and go, I'm not quite. I 430 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 3: don't think I'm done, you know, I don't think I've 431 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 3: got to where I want to get with these characters. 432 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 3: But I think I've managed to do that here after 433 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 3: a thousand rewrites back. It's essentially for those who if 434 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 3: they do like the way I tell stories, I think 435 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 3: they'll like this book. And that's all I can ask. 436 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 3: I'm not out here to if you know it well. 437 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: I also think it's important that people know it's about golf, 438 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: but it's not really about golf. And I think when 439 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: I first saw it's called The Embedded Lie everyone. By 440 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: the way, when I first saw the cover, I went, cheese, 441 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that the book about golf. 442 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, mate, a book about golf. That's the smallest 443 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: fucking market ever, are you really? 444 00:23:58,840 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah? 445 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: And then and then I started to understand what the 446 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: book was. I'm like, oh, dude, this is not this 447 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: is not about golf. Golf is just like a reoccurring theme. 448 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: It's about relationships and people and communication and connection and 449 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: like a whole bunch of the human experience stuff. 450 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 451 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 3: So the publisher had came back with thoughts on covers 452 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 3: and it was an interesting process. I'm not sure if 453 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 3: this is of interest to you, but definitely so. My 454 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 3: initial thoughts was the seaside setting, because it is based 455 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 3: around the Point Lonsdale sort of ballerine area, and I 456 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 3: threw that to them my daughter Abby, who's very artistic. 457 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 3: She sort of painted this little sort of image of 458 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 3: what I had in my head, and the publisher saw 459 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 3: it was very impressive and sort of yeah, so they 460 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 3: had that same sort of reservation about you know, is 461 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 3: it golf? But I think it's a beautiful cover. It's 462 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 3: sort of but again, you're right, I think it'll throw 463 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 3: a lot of people off. In the end. I just 464 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 3: thought it's perfectly fitting for what the story is, that 465 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 3: it's sort of set around the game, if you like. 466 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 3: There's a little bit of a sort of a love 467 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 3: letter to sport, to golf. And I've stayed in my 468 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,479 Speaker 3: lane with this as well. My lane is sport, my 469 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 3: lane is documentaries, and this within this story is a 470 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,479 Speaker 3: documentary is made within the fiction story. And it's very 471 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 3: much about relationships of very much about family dynamics, very 472 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 3: much about friendships over decades and the ups and downs 473 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 3: of that, and the ten percent element of the book 474 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 3: is golf. So you're right, it probably will throw people 475 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 3: off at the cover, but it's just looking at it now, Yeah, 476 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 3: I think I'm happy with it. Are you never really 477 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 3: happy with it? I'm not sure, but yeah, yeah. 478 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 2: But I think that's part of being like I reckon 479 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 2: and I could be really wrong with this because. 480 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: But just just going back for a moment to you 481 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: and Rob, like what was like this creative and energetic force, 482 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: like this charismatic, you know, confident, charming, cheeky, all that, right, 483 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: But I feel like. 484 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: With you your. 485 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: You've got skills and qualities and attributes that are brilliant 486 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: that he didn't have. Like I feel for you, You're 487 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,239 Speaker 1: you're more measured, You're more you're probably more cautious, but 488 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: probably more structured and process driven and box ticking and accountability. 489 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: And whereas Rob was like a dog with three dicks, 490 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: Rob was just like yes, yeah, yeah, and whereas like 491 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: he was just a force. But it's like we needed 492 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: to almost like wrangle him, like just to go that's good, 493 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: but you know, one thing at a time, not thirteen Yes, when. 494 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 3: We were in business together doing our docos, I was 495 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 3: constantly trying to wrangle him in. And I think I 496 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 3: wasted a few years of my own sort of creative 497 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 3: element by trying to keep Rob on track, because he 498 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 3: was such a powerful force, as you said, and he 499 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 3: so creative and could hold a room walk in. You know, 500 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 3: everyone was aware Rob was there. It's charismatic. I'm not 501 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 3: like that. I'm a bit more quieter and reserved. I 502 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 3: can do it if I want to, but I just doesn't. 503 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 3: It's not as if Rob tried to do it. I 504 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 3: think it was just him. It was just the way 505 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 3: he was. But yeah, you're right, I'm a bit more measured. 506 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 3: I sort of, as I like to say, was always 507 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 3: kind of the bass player in the hilarious up the front, 508 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 3: you know, and I'm just sort of plugging away behind 509 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 3: the scenes. And so if anything I've had to, I've 510 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 3: had to put myself out the front of that after 511 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 3: he's passing with what I've done, and it's not easy 512 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 3: for me at all. But yeah, I'm a lot different 513 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 3: to him, and I like to think, and this is 514 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 3: another thing about the riding, to be honest, it has 515 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 3: released me from the shackles of Rob in the sense 516 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 3: that I'm doing something that he didn't do, and I don't. 517 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 3: I don't. He probably could have the prick, you know, 518 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 3: I bet we could have if he wanted to. But 519 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 3: I've got something that's mine now, Like because forever in 520 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 3: a day when I do sports documentaries, I release them, 521 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 3: and the first thing people talk about is the legacy 522 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 3: of Rob and doctors and I love I love it, 523 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 3: I love it. I love his name being still mentioned. 524 00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 3: But there is part of me that can't escape the 525 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 3: fact that am I doing this because of Rob kind 526 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 3: of thing? Whereas these books, especially this one's fiction, is 527 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 3: this is out of the box in terms of something 528 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 3: I doubt Rob would have ever done. So there is 529 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 3: a there is a slight satisfaction in that. 530 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yeah, and you love your brother, and you 531 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: always love your brother, but it's your your you. He 532 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: was him and you don't have to live in his shadow, 533 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: and neither would he want you to or you know, 534 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: and you've got your own talent and your own path. Hey, 535 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you what surprised you about the 536 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: fiction writing process, Like, was there anything where you went off? 537 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: Is it twenty times harder? Or this is easy? Like 538 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: what not came up? 539 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 3: Well, what's surprising you was how bloody hard it is. 540 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 3: You're right, it's just it's so difficult. I had no 541 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 3: idea how difficult it was to I make shit up. 542 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 3: That is interesting. There's a lot of there's a lot 543 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 3: of elements of this that I've based on real events. 544 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 3: But you can't just it's a biography then if you 545 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 3: go that way. So what I had to do is 546 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 3: even as simple things, Craig, is what am I going 547 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 3: to name these characters? Now you think that's easy, it's 548 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 3: bloody hard. What relationships do they have with each other? What? 549 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 3: It just goes on and on and on. So what 550 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 3: the further I got into writing, I started to, I 551 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 3: feel the first half when I wrote it it was okay. 552 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 3: The second half I got into my groove and it 553 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 3: took about ten eleven months, and because I was in 554 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 3: between documentaries and waiting for the call, waiting for the 555 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 3: next funding, I had time on my hands. And the 556 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 3: problem with me is I can't do anything else, Like 557 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 3: I look at everyone else's occupation and I'm jealous of 558 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 3: how other people operate their lives because I don't have 559 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 3: any other options. My options are storytelling and documentary and 560 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 3: it's a it's a prick of an industry for that, 561 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 3: for constant work, for a constant income. I'm just sometimes 562 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 3: just bloody lucky that I've got a wife who's a doctor. 563 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 3: To be honest, in these periods where I'm not earning 564 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 3: as much as I should. You know, there's coverage there, 565 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 3: so and she backs me all the way with that. 566 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 3: But yeah, it's it's hard, it's it's a grind. I'm 567 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 3: I'm a pretty good The thing about writing is I'm 568 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 3: I'm a world class typist. I must admit. One of 569 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 3: the questions are one of the most bizarre things that 570 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 3: ever was. When I worked at the National Safety Council 571 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 3: with Rob years ago, one of the first things they 572 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 3: taught me was how to type, which I look back 573 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 3: now and go, that's one of the greatest things I've 574 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 3: ever got for the National Safety Council because I can 575 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 3: without looking type fast, so I can punch through manuscripts 576 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 3: and words, and I generally averaged when I was really 577 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 3: pumping it out about three to four thousand a day 578 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 3: what words. So I was So what that process is 579 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 3: is I'm just in the zone and I'm writing, and 580 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 3: I'm in the characters, and I'm feeling it and I 581 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 3: get through it. That has to be reworked a lot 582 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 3: what I've just written, but I'm getting there. I'm pushing 583 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 3: through the story. So I have an ability to do that, 584 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 3: which I did not know before. I started writing the 585 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 3: first book, I did not know I had that at all. 586 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 3: I've always I'm not a greater student by any means, 587 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 3: and when I look back at my schooling, English was 588 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 3: clearly my best subject any mathematics. I can't even look 589 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 3: at my son's year eight stuff. I just don't know 590 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 3: what he's talking about, you know what I mean. I'm 591 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 3: no good but yeah, so English, so and essays. I 592 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 3: always was good at essays, but I never put it 593 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 3: into practice in a working sense until now. So maybe 594 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 3: there is something there and I'd like to do another one. 595 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 3: I think it can only get better now that I've 596 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 3: got one out of the way. But again, it's how 597 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 3: much you commit to this genre of storytelling, because you know, 598 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 3: you've got to get to a point where you realize 599 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 3: you're not going to make a schoolion dollars from it. 600 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 3: It's more self satisfaction really, unless you get a big published, 601 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 3: get an agent, and get it out there. 602 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: You know, I've been mentoring a young guy for years, 603 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: like he came in one of my programs when he 604 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: was nineteen, met him when he was seventeen or eight, 605 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: and he's thirty six. 606 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 2: Now, I would love to get you two together. You 607 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 2: would love him. 608 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: He actually he reminds me a little bit of Rob 609 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: in that he's good looking, as charismatic as fuck. He's charming, 610 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: he's very likable. It's got a couple of kids and 611 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: a wife is thirty. Tommy his name is Tommy Jacket, 612 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: and he's making docos and he just started, you know, 613 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: just like fifteen years ago, filming stuff with me little things, 614 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: and now he just came back from the States. He 615 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: spent nearly two months with a team of seven, fully 616 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,879 Speaker 1: funded by private equity for a fair bit of dough. 617 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,760 Speaker 2: I know how much dode like, not insignificant, and. 618 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, he liked but he's he's killed himself to get 619 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: to this point where they went to the States and 620 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: they filmed a doco around gun culture and basically the 621 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: psychology of Americans and their guns and relationships with their 622 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: guns through the lens of Australians. I've seen some of 623 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: the footage. It's fucking amazing. And he's like you, he's 624 00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 1: a really good storyteller and like of his stuff is 625 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: like television better than like. 626 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 2: It's great. You would love it. 627 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: You would love him, But yeah, I don't know why 628 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: I told you that in the middle of the podcast. 629 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: But I just see a lot of not that necessarily 630 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: you would do anything together. 631 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 2: But I think he's a kindred spirit, like he would 632 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: thinking that I. 633 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 3: Was actually just thinking those terms. It sounds like a 634 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 3: kindred spirit. 635 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: He would get you, and you would get him, and 636 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: he would go, mate, what about this? 637 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 2: And you go, ah, fuck, let me tell you a 638 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 2: story about that. 639 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: And he's always trying to get you know, things up 640 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: and getting funding and you know the stuff that he 641 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: does produce though, and it's now it's you know, it's 642 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: like he goes to the States with two or three 643 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: camera people and the sound people and a production manager 644 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: and like the whole you know, it's not like it's 645 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,959 Speaker 1: a cast of thousands, but it's you know, they spent 646 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: lots of dough and you know, they've got hundreds of 647 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: hours of footage. They've got to turn it into a 648 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 1: ninety minute docco that is going to be on hopefully 649 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: some streaming platform. 650 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 2: And but yeah, we might a way to go. 651 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 3: Yeah's love to me. Private EQUI is a good way 652 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 3: to fund it. That's a nice way to go. 653 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I might we should organize a coffee you and 654 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: me and him you love him, you too would like 655 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: each other. Like he's one of those dudes where you're like, ah, you. 656 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 2: Know some people. 657 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: This is going to sound weird, but I don't want 658 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: to give you a fat head Tommy, but like some people, 659 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: you like being around them, Like you walk away feeling 660 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: more positive and more energized. And it's not a drain, 661 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,359 Speaker 1: like there are a percentage of people, not a lot 662 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: that I walk away from them like I feel like 663 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: I've been just fucking backstroking and quicksand emotional quicksand like 664 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,879 Speaker 1: sent me out. Yes, but that's hard, and every time 665 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: it's like, oh god, it's hard. 666 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 2: But he's the opposite. But anyway, we'll see if we 667 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: can hook that up. Mate. 668 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: I love chatting with you. The book is called The 669 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: Embedded Lie. Everybody. 670 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 2: I'm super proud of you. You're a gun, You're a 671 00:36:58,840 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 2: good human. 672 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: I love your humility but also your talent and your creativity. 673 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming out to play mate, Thanks for chatting 674 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: to me again, and we love you being on the 675 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: You project and we're always going to support you and 676 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: you know we'll get you back again when you're doing 677 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: your next thing whatever that looks like. 678 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 3: I'm just so grateful to you, mate, for this chat. 679 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 3: I love it. I love speaking to you. I adore 680 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 3: reconnecting with Rob's best mates. For some reason, it really 681 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 3: warms my heart. And you're one of them, and I 682 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 3: it makes me feel a bit closer to him when 683 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,359 Speaker 3: I do so. I love that. Supporting my work, Craig, 684 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 3: You've been amazing and this book. It's available at my 685 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 3: website Peterdison dot com dot au if anyone wants to 686 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 3: have a read eye but to you personally, I love 687 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 3: chatting with you and I just appreciate it so much, mate. 688 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: Mate, It's a pleasure and it's win win, definitely win win. 689 00:37:58,239 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: We'll have a chat off here in a minute. But 690 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,399 Speaker 1: for the moment, mate. The books called the Embedded lie 691 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: gum By. Christmas is coming, everybody, come by ten. 692 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 2: I cannot be lazy good if Christmas is coming, just 693 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 2: get ten. 694 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: And we'll say goodbye. We'll say goodbye off here in 695 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: a moment. But for now, mate, thanks for being on 696 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: the You project. 697 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 3: Cheers mate, I appreciate it.