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Speaker 1: Appoche production. Hi guys, Neil commins here. Happy New Year.

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Speaker 1: As you can see the podcast how to Break over

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Speaker 1: the Christmas period. Well, but back now for twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: six with brand new episodes dropping from the twelfth of January.

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Speaker 1: To get you by to lend his two episodes from

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Speaker 1: the past. Have a listen, have a great time. I'm

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Speaker 1: Neil Cummins. This sequence the Other World, and this is

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I

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Speaker 1: am Neil the Muscle Coummings. You've probably heard about the

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Speaker 1: last King of the Cross, John Abraham, Mister Ibrahim, You've

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Speaker 1: been described as the King of the Cross. Behind every

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Speaker 1: king stands a loyal soldier. Their job is to make

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Speaker 1: sure that that king stays on the throat. I am

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Speaker 1: that soldier and in this episode I speak with Uk Hardman.

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Speaker 1: Paul stands By.

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Speaker 2: Started punching the windows of Pure in. He didn't know

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Speaker 2: what was going and I'm trying to handle. He started

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Speaker 2: driving off and I hope he watches this. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: really hope he watches this. He opened the door for

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Speaker 2: me and he turned around, took one look at me

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Speaker 2: and let go of the door and it smacked me. Yeah, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm tenure. It's stupid, stupid. Yeah, because I've put so

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Speaker 2: many people in danger that I managed to escape from

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Speaker 2: the Mintal Institution. It took me a while, but I've

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Speaker 2: figured it out and I got out of it. She

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Speaker 2: come down, my mum said. I looked me in the

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Speaker 2: eyes and she said, kill them.

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Speaker 1: Let's get to know you as a as a person

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Speaker 1: first before we get into Lizzy Grizzy.

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Speaker 2: So. I was born in London. I grew up there

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Speaker 2: for a fair bit of my childhood, restrained family. Mom

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Speaker 2: and dad didn't really get on. My dad was a

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Speaker 2: bit handsy. He used to whip my mom up a lot. Oh,

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Speaker 2: and that was Yeah. I never really witnessed it, but

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Speaker 2: I heard it, do you know what I mean? And

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Speaker 2: sometimes I think that's worse than actually seeing it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I seeing your imagination. Yes, the imagination, isn't it. Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And then all you see is you see the the

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Speaker 2: after effects, you know, the cutlet the black eye. I

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Speaker 2: feel like that plays more trauma than actually seeing it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I remember when my mother and father used to fight

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Speaker 1: and I used to try and get in the middle.

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Speaker 1: And I remember one day we were in ten reef

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Speaker 1: and he I was in the way, and I told

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Speaker 1: him stop it. My mom stopped my mom and then

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Speaker 1: he threw me against the wall and that was that

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Speaker 1: was That was a massive changer for me, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, because I was only young then and

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Speaker 1: I had to throw me against the wall and then

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Speaker 1: he launched up my mother. It was it was pretty

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Speaker 1: That was the only time I've ever seen them fight,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Did that change your view and your old man?

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Speaker 1: But this way it didn't because me and him became

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Speaker 1: he was he was my best mate, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. But I used to get told different things

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Speaker 1: off different but like my mother would say bad things

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Speaker 1: about my dad, and Dad would say bad things months,

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Speaker 1: so I could never get the full story. So but

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Speaker 1: then I always because my mom used to take the

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Speaker 1: piss all the time out of my dad. I stuck

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Speaker 1: up with my dad because he never he never used

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Speaker 1: to say a bad word. I've always think my dad's

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Speaker 1: getting done by you. Why are you picking on my

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Speaker 1: dad all the time. So that's that was always staying

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Speaker 1: with my dad. But now I've grown up and now

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Speaker 1: I remember things. It's funny how when you grow up

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Speaker 1: you remember and remember remember things. Now I go, shit,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? You fucking used to do that,

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Speaker 1: your little fuck You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: I mean thinking mature mind though, that isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: You know when you as you get older, you start

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Speaker 2: to think like an adult or not a child. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so you start seeing how more messed up it was

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Speaker 2: that your parents actually said them things to you as

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Speaker 2: a child, because it really it shouldn't be said. It

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Speaker 2: should have been kept between them, you know. And I

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Speaker 2: think again that plays a massive part in trauma that

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Speaker 2: you end up reliving as you get older. But it

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Speaker 2: does make you a better parent as well. It made

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Speaker 2: me a better parent, yeah, you know, so learning from that.

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Speaker 2: It come with its trauma, but I'll become a better

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Speaker 2: parent because of it because I didn't want to be

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Speaker 2: like that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But how do the affect the household? Though?

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Speaker 2: Massively? Because my dad didn't really get on with my brother,

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Speaker 2: so that was like always arguments between them two, and

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Speaker 2: my mom used to ways stick up for my brother.

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Speaker 2: So my mum used to get it from my dad. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, and we was young, so whilst they're all

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Speaker 2: having their arguments, we was pushed off into a room

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Speaker 2: listening to it, and then afterwards my dad would leave.

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Speaker 2: I can't I can't tell you. It's whether mum kicked

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Speaker 2: him out or whether he just left, but he'd leave,

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Speaker 2: and then of course my mum would have all these

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Speaker 2: marks on her clothes would be stretched out and you're

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Speaker 2: trying to be like, what's going on here? But at

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Speaker 2: the same time and your kamm like trying trying to

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Speaker 2: help her out, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: But the next day and or the day after they

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Speaker 1: did it always go back to like nothing ever happened.

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Speaker 1: It was like course, of.

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Speaker 2: Course, because you know, it's loving it. Look it's the

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Speaker 2: strangest love that you could have, because they'd eat each

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Speaker 2: other and hate each other. And then they'll come back

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Speaker 2: and say sorry, it never happened again. You're like, okay,

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Speaker 2: and then it's back to normal again. You're not sure

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Speaker 2: whether you're coming and going yeah, and then it went

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Speaker 2: It got a bit too much one time, and I

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Speaker 2: remember my mom got beat up pretty bad and in

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Speaker 2: my dad went to work, and when he went to work,

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Speaker 2: we packed up and left, so the police were there.

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Speaker 2: I just remember the police being there, some people that

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Speaker 2: was in normal clothes and we ended up getting took

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Speaker 2: to protective housing, which is where I spent a lot

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Speaker 2: of my childhood, growing up in things called women's refuges.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean, because, yeah, so I grew

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Speaker 2: up in women's refuges. So I spent most of my

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Speaker 2: time surrounded by women. You know, so I never really

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Speaker 2: had a masculine person there. And my brother was older,

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Speaker 2: he was staying around his friend's houses rather than being

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Speaker 2: in these women's refugees with us. So you know, I

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Speaker 2: was the only boy in a women's refuge with three

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Speaker 2: hundred and eighty seven women.

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Speaker 1: Fuck me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was brought up by so many women.

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Speaker 1: What about school? What about schooling? Though?

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Speaker 2: School was rough man because because every time my dad

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Speaker 2: found us, we had to move. So I've literally been

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Speaker 2: to over one hundred schools. One time I was in school,

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Speaker 2: I went into school, I was there a day, and

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Speaker 2: then I had to go and then join up to

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Speaker 2: another school. And I was in that school for two

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Speaker 2: weeks and my dad found us again.

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Speaker 1: How old were you do?

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Speaker 2: It wasn't so it started probably I was about four

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Speaker 2: or five when it started. So from four or five

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Speaker 2: right up until I got expelled in the high school,

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Speaker 2: I was in and out of school, not because I

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Speaker 2: was a nuisance, just because I was a nuisance when

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Speaker 2: I was at high school. When I was younger, I

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Speaker 2: was in and out of schools because we were being

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Speaker 2: moved around.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever get pissed off with your dad for

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Speaker 1: doing that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Did you know?

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Speaker 2: I was so listen, I was so young with understanding

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Speaker 2: that emotion that I just wondered where my dad went.

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Speaker 2: There was one minute he was there, next minute he

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Speaker 2: was gone. And like your mom did to you. My

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Speaker 2: mom used to say, your dad's a bad man, and

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Speaker 2: throughout our life he was a horrible person. But as

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Speaker 2: I was getting older, I felt like I was missing

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Speaker 2: what everybody else had, a dad, a father and man figure.

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Speaker 2: My brother was here and there, do you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean. It wasn't until I started getting older that

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Speaker 2: he started paying attention to me as a young man

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Speaker 2: where he started teaching me how to cook and shave,

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Speaker 2: not a mad but shave and dress and stuff. You know.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't until I started getting older, my teens where

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Speaker 2: he become a father figure to me. But I always

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Speaker 2: wanted to know about my dad as much as I

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Speaker 2: heard it and as much as my Mum was telling

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Speaker 2: me all this stuff. I was still curious. I wanted

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Speaker 2: to know about who my dad was and why he

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Speaker 2: did it.

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Speaker 1: Did you ask him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I found him. I went and found him. The

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Speaker 2: first time I went there. I was. I went to

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Speaker 2: his house at nighttime. I drove up to London. I was.

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Speaker 2: I was a visiting family, and I went around his

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Speaker 2: house and I went up to the door, and then

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Speaker 2: I walked away from the door because I didn't I

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Speaker 2: didn't know if he was going to be happy that

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Speaker 2: I turned up, or whether I was going to have

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Speaker 2: the same response as what my mom did. So I

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Speaker 2: went back to the car and I read a letter saying,

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Speaker 2: two Paul stands because his name is the same as mine.

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Speaker 2: Two Paul stands. But I didn't even put dad. I

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Speaker 2: was really I was emotion wise, I was up. I

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Speaker 2: was so up that when I got there, I dropped.

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Speaker 2: I plummeted hard because I wanted to see this guy

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Speaker 2: and I wanted to I had this imagination of what

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Speaker 2: he would be like as a father to me. It

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Speaker 2: was nothing like I thought. It was nothing like I thought.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's all smokes and mirrors with him. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: but I wrote this letter. I basically said, you've not

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Speaker 2: been a dad to me, and I really went at him.

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Speaker 2: I posted the letter, but it was his house and

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Speaker 2: it was an next door neighbor's house.

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Speaker 1: Fuck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and do you know what it is? I didn't know,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't mean that in any way. Yeah. But

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Speaker 2: later on, like a few years later, I had come

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Speaker 2: back and I had the bulls to go and to

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Speaker 2: go and knock on the door because I really I

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Speaker 2: was curious. And it wasn't then until he told me

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Speaker 2: that I posted a letter next door. And after posting

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Speaker 2: a letter next door, he told me how humiliating that was,

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Speaker 2: which I thought was a bit of a bad move

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Speaker 2: for him to say how embarrassed he was that the

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Speaker 2: letter went next door because I had to live it

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Speaker 2: for years yep, and he only had a letter drop

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Speaker 2: on a doorstep, do you know what I mean? There

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Speaker 2: was no apology for him making me have to make

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Speaker 2: new friends at school over one hundred times, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean? There was no I had to share

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Speaker 2: a bathroom with like loads of other people and we

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Speaker 2: all ate together with it. There was no what about

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Speaker 2: my embarrassment? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, So

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Speaker 2: for me straight away. I was like a little bit disrespectful,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't say nothing because I really wanted to know.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to know him. I wanted to see if

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Speaker 2: we was alike. I wanted to know if I was

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Speaker 2: going to end up being like him. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: know where because I'm so different from the rest of

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Speaker 2: my family that all of my brothers and my sisters

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Speaker 2: are like my mom's side of the family, and I

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Speaker 2: was very different. So I wanted to know where I

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Speaker 2: come from, why I'm the way I am, Why am

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Speaker 2: I so different from them? You know. So I had

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Speaker 2: a lot of curious going on in my head where

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Speaker 2: I needed to find out where I come from genetically,

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Speaker 2: to find out if I'm going to be as messed

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Speaker 2: up as everybody else.

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Speaker 1: You know, were you disappointed when you when you kind

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Speaker 1: of like got to know him, like when you confronted them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was for many reasons, because do

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Speaker 2: you know when they say you should ever meet your idol, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because it's a disappointment. You're never. It's never how you

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Speaker 2: imagine it's going to be. Was a bit like that

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Speaker 2: with me and my father. So my dad, he's got

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Speaker 2: a house and he's quite successful in the job that

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Speaker 2: he does in that lot, but did he really matter?

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Speaker 2: Yeah he did. Yeah. He got with another woman not

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Speaker 2: long after my mum and had some more children, and

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Speaker 2: they are so different from from us, so different.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's Do you think it's it was

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Speaker 1: made you the person you are today?

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Speaker 2: Though, very much so. A lot has made me the

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Speaker 2: person I am today, but the parent I am today

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Speaker 2: very much so.

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Speaker 1: Because you want to be different to how you were

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Speaker 1: treated when you were a kid, you never wear.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, some people give harsh

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Speaker 2: lessons to bring to teach you to be a man,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think you need that, do you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean? I just think you just need, you know,

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Speaker 2: nourishment and just guidance rather than you need to be

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Speaker 2: like this way, you know, because it's almost a sense

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Speaker 2: of still, I don't know, like alpha power when you

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Speaker 2: when you're not really an alpha, do you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean?

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Speaker 1: But did this make you rebel?

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Speaker 2: Yes, But it wasn't my dad that made me rebel.

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Speaker 2: My mum met another geezer and he was absolutely a horrible,

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Speaker 2: horrible guy, but my mom got with him because he

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Speaker 2: was a big guy. And I think she got with

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Speaker 2: him to keep my dad away from her. Okay, but

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Speaker 2: she just traded what she had with another guy with

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Speaker 2: more power. Do you do you understand? Ye? So her

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Speaker 2: protecting herself from him put her directly in danger again.

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Speaker 2: And this guy hated me. He hated me because I

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Speaker 2: am the carbon copy spitting image of my old man.

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Speaker 1: So what was that like?

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Speaker 2: And he hated it?

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Speaker 1: In what way? Did he? Did he do anything to

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Speaker 1: make you feel like not wanted?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I made everything like I was grounded all the

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Speaker 2: time for nothing. He used to come and like mentally

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Speaker 2: mess with my head. He loved w w F and

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Speaker 2: I was his place, buddy, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Like he'd twist me up like mad met It was

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Speaker 2: like six foot six foot three, six foot four, and

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Speaker 2: he'd twist me up, mate, really hurt us, you know,

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Speaker 2: like as a kid, put my legs over my head,

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Speaker 2: like do everything he could so get me to cry.

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Speaker 1: What does your mom do?

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Speaker 2: My mom was like, you need a harden up son,

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Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? And do this because

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Speaker 2: she never saw She got brought up fairly rough as well,

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Speaker 2: so this was like normal. But she just see it

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Speaker 2: as like stop being so rough with him, and then

286
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Speaker 2: they'd argue. So it was kind of like, so he'd

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Speaker 2: end up doing this when she'd be out working or

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Speaker 2: she'd go to the shop. This is when he stopped

289
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Speaker 2: so she's not around. And then there was times, mate,

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Speaker 2: I thought I was wetting the beds for years. I

291
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Speaker 2: thought I was coming up into coming up in the

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Speaker 2: high school wetting the beds. You know, it wasn't. This

293
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Speaker 2: geezer was coming in at nighttime, pouring water over us

294
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Speaker 2: and then like having a goa, say you're grounded because

295
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Speaker 2: he had no friends so he and he loved football,

296
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Speaker 2: so he used to pour water over us. Tell my mum,

297
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Speaker 2: I'd wet the bed. And then my grounding was to

298
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Speaker 2: go and play football. I wouldn't be allowed out of

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Speaker 2: my room. The only time I was allowed out of

300
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Speaker 2: my room was to go and play football.

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Speaker 1: This guy fuck me.

302
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Speaker 2: Yeah that's been twisted. Yeah it really is. So it

303
00:14:25,761 --> 00:14:28,121
Speaker 2: was all for him, it was all mine. He never

304
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Speaker 2: slapped me. He never enforced himself like like ah, it's

305
00:14:35,641 --> 00:14:40,201
Speaker 2: all mind games, and it was all hard gripping and

306
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Speaker 2: twisting up. That was what he was doing to me.

307
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Speaker 1: Are they still together?

308
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Speaker 2: Nah? Nah? But that's when I started rebelling.

309
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Speaker 1: So what did you do to rebel?

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Speaker 2: Like?

311
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Speaker 1: What was that?

312
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Speaker 3: Like?

313
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Speaker 1: Just go out and rebel? Or like? What was it?

314
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Speaker 2: So after he left, I had my first fight at school,

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Speaker 2: and then I got a taste for it and realiz

316
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Speaker 2: that I wasn't what he would make me believe I

317
00:15:08,121 --> 00:15:10,801
Speaker 2: was like because he made me feel like I was weak.

318
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Speaker 2: He made me feel like I was nothing, like I

319
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Speaker 2: had no power, like he made me feel like a child,

320
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Speaker 2: even when I was growing into a teenager. He made

321
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Speaker 2: me feel like I was this weak, feeble individual that

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Speaker 2: couldn't say boo to a ghost. I was just like, oh,

323
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Speaker 2: you're you know, you're pussying me to say all this

324
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Speaker 2: stuff to get into my head. So I wouldn't react

325
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Speaker 2: back to him, so I'd just be accepting all of this.

326
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Speaker 2: But after he left and I had my first fight,

327
00:15:36,961 --> 00:15:39,761
Speaker 2: I thought to myself, and this boy I had a

328
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Speaker 2: fight with him, he was bigger than me, and I've

329
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Speaker 2: done him. But I was shocked that I'd done him

330
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Speaker 2: because I didn't think I had that in me. But

331
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Speaker 2: when I sat there and I thought about it, there

332
00:15:50,081 --> 00:15:52,721
Speaker 2: was no one that was of my age or a

333
00:15:52,721 --> 00:15:54,521
Speaker 2: little bit older that was going to be able to

334
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Speaker 2: test me because I've been taking it for years from

335
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Speaker 2: a six foot four geezer who was like crazy strong

336
00:16:00,881 --> 00:16:03,681
Speaker 2: and twisted me up to a point where I was

337
00:16:03,801 --> 00:16:06,881
Speaker 2: able not to cry even when I was in paint. Yeah,

338
00:16:08,161 --> 00:16:10,681
Speaker 2: because I couldn't show him. I couldn't. I couldn't give

339
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Speaker 2: him that because even though he took my strength power

340
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Speaker 2: from me, I couldn't let him take my my inner power.

341
00:16:19,081 --> 00:16:20,721
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? Because if I did

342
00:16:20,881 --> 00:16:23,801
Speaker 2: do that, there's there's there's that's hard to come back

343
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Speaker 2: from that, an't it? Yeah?

344
00:16:25,041 --> 00:16:28,961
Speaker 1: Yeah I did. I didn't. I didn't rebell go by fighting.

345
00:16:29,281 --> 00:16:32,561
Speaker 1: By rebelled by going around stealing cars. And that was

346
00:16:32,601 --> 00:16:34,321
Speaker 1: my way because I never used to hang around with

347
00:16:34,361 --> 00:16:37,801
Speaker 1: anybody to who did that. But then because I was

348
00:16:37,841 --> 00:16:40,601
Speaker 1: having trouble at home, and I, you know, I just

349
00:16:40,641 --> 00:16:43,401
Speaker 1: went fucking I started hanging around with guys and you

350
00:16:43,441 --> 00:16:45,401
Speaker 1: wouldn't tell them. You just say, I'm playing football at

351
00:16:45,401 --> 00:16:47,161
Speaker 1: the park, but I'm going to rob cars and going

352
00:16:47,201 --> 00:16:49,681
Speaker 1: in golf courses and fucking you know, doing handbrake teens

353
00:16:49,721 --> 00:16:51,921
Speaker 1: in fucking in the cars, you know what I mean,

354
00:16:52,281 --> 00:16:54,401
Speaker 1: going over the fucking sandhills and the bunkers, you know

355
00:16:54,401 --> 00:16:57,601
Speaker 1: what I mean. But then I'd go home like and

356
00:16:57,721 --> 00:16:59,681
Speaker 1: carrying my ball like I was, you know, I just

357
00:16:59,761 --> 00:17:01,521
Speaker 1: had a game of football in the park, you know

358
00:17:01,561 --> 00:17:01,881
Speaker 1: what I mean?

359
00:17:02,121 --> 00:17:05,441
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I've been in the off I mean,

360
00:17:05,441 --> 00:17:07,961
Speaker 2: not the golf course. But I've done myself with the

361
00:17:08,001 --> 00:17:12,881
Speaker 2: ceiling cars and math whites. I've done that myself. I've

362
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 2: done I did nick a lot, but I've never done

363
00:17:15,321 --> 00:17:19,921
Speaker 2: how it was just and just shots, you know, I don't,

364
00:17:19,961 --> 00:17:21,640
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know. I got involved with all

365
00:17:21,681 --> 00:17:23,481
Speaker 2: that lot as well, but that wasn't until after.

366
00:17:23,761 --> 00:17:25,881
Speaker 1: So what what age group did you start rebelling?

367
00:17:27,481 --> 00:17:30,521
Speaker 2: I was about twelve, Oh fuck that early?

368
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what did you do for rebell Was it

369
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 1: mostly just fighting in school or what?

370
00:17:35,241 --> 00:17:38,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was kind of laying my my laying my

371
00:17:38,321 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 2: footwork down for rebelling against anyone authority. Basically, anyone that

372
00:17:44,721 --> 00:17:48,801
Speaker 2: was telling me to do something I'd refuse that would

373
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:54,720
Speaker 2: end up followed by violence. Anyone that was standing in

374
00:17:54,761 --> 00:17:57,400
Speaker 2: my way, anyone that was to try and take away

375
00:17:57,561 --> 00:18:00,961
Speaker 2: my strength was a problem, whether it was just them

376
00:18:01,001 --> 00:18:04,561
Speaker 2: shouting or whether it was then being physical or them

377
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 2: laying dominance down with telling me what to do, even

378
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:08,761
Speaker 2: though I should have listened because there were adults and

379
00:18:08,801 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 2: I was a child, you know, but I just won't

380
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:11,321
Speaker 2: having none of it.

381
00:18:12,241 --> 00:18:13,841
Speaker 1: Wow, didn't get expelled?

382
00:18:14,961 --> 00:18:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got expelled a lot. Yeah, I got expelled.

383
00:18:18,481 --> 00:18:20,640
Speaker 2: It got to a point where none of those schools

384
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,481
Speaker 2: would take me, and I ended up at a naughty boys'

385
00:18:22,521 --> 00:18:25,521
Speaker 2: school and that was I was only they used to

386
00:18:25,521 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 2: come and get me in a taxi because I wouldn't

387
00:18:28,041 --> 00:18:30,360
Speaker 2: get on any transport or nothing. That they picked me

388
00:18:30,441 --> 00:18:33,400
Speaker 2: up in a taxi. They drive me to the school.

389
00:18:33,761 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 2: I was there for no longer than three hours because

390
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,041
Speaker 2: my mind would only allow me to concentrate for three

391
00:18:38,041 --> 00:18:40,961
Speaker 2: hours before I started getting like aggravated, and then I'd

392
00:18:41,001 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 2: end up fighting, and then the taxi would take me

393
00:18:43,281 --> 00:18:44,801
Speaker 2: home again. And I'd only have to do that three

394
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 2: times a week. So my school, I do only have

395
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,121
Speaker 2: to go to school three times a week for three

396
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 2: hours each day. Shit. Yeah. So yeah, and you know,

397
00:18:55,761 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 2: the school was good, But it was good because the

398
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,400
Speaker 2: teachers understood you rather than they didn't tell you. They

399
00:19:02,481 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 2: understood you, and they talked to you like a person

400
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,160
Speaker 2: rather than so the teachers. I couldn't fault them, but

401
00:19:08,281 --> 00:19:11,801
Speaker 2: it was you're you're in a school of naughty kids,

402
00:19:11,961 --> 00:19:14,440
Speaker 2: and each of them was bad in their school. So

403
00:19:14,481 --> 00:19:16,881
Speaker 2: when they get to a school where each kid has

404
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,880
Speaker 2: been kicked out for the same thing, you're laying dominance

405
00:19:19,921 --> 00:19:23,321
Speaker 2: down in this school. And there was there's a guy. He,

406
00:19:23,801 --> 00:19:25,880
Speaker 2: me and this one other guy. We was told we'd

407
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,441
Speaker 2: never be nothing out of life. It would be we'd

408
00:19:28,441 --> 00:19:31,321
Speaker 2: never have children, we never have wives. We just go

409
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,440
Speaker 2: to jowl and all this. Like, yeah, and me and

410
00:19:33,561 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 2: him have been the most successful ones that left at school.

411
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,201
Speaker 2: He's called David Steel and he actually is my window cleaner.

412
00:19:42,241 --> 00:19:47,600
Speaker 2: Now he's got a wind. He's really successful and he

413
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,521
Speaker 2: does all my windows. Another but when he was at school,

414
00:19:49,561 --> 00:19:51,360
Speaker 2: he was going he wanted to go after the navy,

415
00:19:51,481 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 2: and he went off to the Navy. He got kicked

416
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 2: out of there. I but yeah, he cleans my windows

417
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,041
Speaker 2: now in the townshop.

418
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,921
Speaker 1: That's funny. That's funny. So when you get to about

419
00:20:00,921 --> 00:20:03,160
Speaker 1: your late teens, what are you up to? What are

420
00:20:03,201 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 1: you doing? Like seventeen?

421
00:20:06,241 --> 00:20:08,841
Speaker 2: Everything, I mean, I say everything. I'm not doing drugs.

422
00:20:08,921 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 2: I'm not I don't I'm not smoking I'm not. I

423
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 2: wasn't like that wayward, you know, yeah, yeah yeah, but

424
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:19,401
Speaker 2: stolen gear, stealing cars, selling cars to stripping the cars out,

425
00:20:19,481 --> 00:20:22,401
Speaker 2: motorbikes and fight that was me mate.

426
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: What was your mother thinking at this time?

427
00:20:24,481 --> 00:20:28,321
Speaker 2: Me and my brother, we was allowed to be that

428
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 2: way because it was like the whole Peggy Mitchell and

429
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,961
Speaker 2: Phil Grant thing, like my boys boys, you know what

430
00:20:35,001 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 2: I mean. So we was like if we had a

431
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,801
Speaker 2: fight and we went back, I said, MoMA just had

432
00:20:40,801 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 2: a fight, She'd be like, did you win? And it'd

433
00:20:43,481 --> 00:20:46,081
Speaker 2: be like yeah, She's like good boy, go and get

434
00:20:47,201 --> 00:20:49,841
Speaker 2: you know, carry off basically, do you know what I mean?

435
00:20:49,961 --> 00:20:52,360
Speaker 2: But it was always did you win? And if we'd

436
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,281
Speaker 2: have said no, it'd be like right, getting a car

437
00:20:54,481 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 2: and then we'd go around the house and then my

438
00:20:56,241 --> 00:20:58,681
Speaker 2: mom would be like your boys, you know or whatever

439
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,281
Speaker 2: wherever the situation of being wow. But my mum was

440
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:04,241
Speaker 2: quite quite hands on herself, like she not with us,

441
00:21:04,481 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: not with a boy, but she was hands on. She

442
00:21:07,241 --> 00:21:09,761
Speaker 2: got stuck in if her dad turned up that she

443
00:21:09,961 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 2: was quite a fierce woman. She's a very short woman,

444
00:21:13,761 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 2: but you wouldn't message it honestly. Yeah, yeah, she's pretty fierce,

445
00:21:18,561 --> 00:21:22,721
Speaker 2: but because my mum had had these jokers as husbands,

446
00:21:23,721 --> 00:21:26,001
Speaker 2: it was mine and my brother's job. As we got

447
00:21:26,001 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 2: older and we was more fighting, she almost prepped us

448
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:32,321
Speaker 2: in case they come back, do you know what I mean?

449
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 2: So we was prepped to and listen, my mum done good. Yeah,

450
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,120
Speaker 2: my mom brought me up. Well. I have no problems

451
00:21:42,561 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 2: with how my mum and what my mum done for me.

452
00:21:45,041 --> 00:21:47,360
Speaker 2: She fed us when she never had nothing, she went

453
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,481
Speaker 2: without so wee could have not toys, food, clothes. Yeah.

454
00:21:51,801 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 2: So my mum was a very good woman. When it

455
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 2: comes to the hugs and stuff, not so much. We

456
00:21:58,241 --> 00:22:01,201
Speaker 2: didn't have all that emotional hugs and the kisses we had.

457
00:22:01,441 --> 00:22:03,361
Speaker 2: I love you boys, I love you too, and it's

458
00:22:03,441 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 2: kind of like that, but there was no like hugs

459
00:22:05,681 --> 00:22:07,761
Speaker 2: and stuff. Me. I'm a hugger. I love a hug,

460
00:22:07,801 --> 00:22:08,761
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So if you if you

461
00:22:08,801 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 2: want to give me a hug, I'm going to give

462
00:22:09,961 --> 00:22:11,961
Speaker 2: you a hug, and I probably won't let go first,

463
00:22:12,001 --> 00:22:12,681
Speaker 2: you know.

464
00:22:12,761 --> 00:22:16,401
Speaker 1: But it's but how have you got like that? If

465
00:22:16,441 --> 00:22:17,681
Speaker 1: your mother wasn't like that?

466
00:22:18,521 --> 00:22:21,201
Speaker 2: Yeah, my brother wasn't like it either. My brother wasn't

467
00:22:21,241 --> 00:22:23,321
Speaker 2: like it. And that's why I wanted to know. Like,

468
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 2: my family are not very huggab with people, you know

469
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 2: what I mean, They're like, you're right dead arm. You know,

470
00:22:29,201 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 2: it's like you're good, like you go kiss me, you

471
00:22:32,441 --> 00:22:33,761
Speaker 2: kiss me on top of the edge. Don't kiss me

472
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,241
Speaker 2: on the cheek. It's weird, you know, you know, like

473
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 2: it's like that. Yeah. So and when they come in,

474
00:22:38,961 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 2: they touch on your shoulder and they're like brush off

475
00:22:40,681 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 2: your shoulder, like, oh, get off you what are you

476
00:22:41,921 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 2: doing that for? That's weird, Like stop it? But but lot,

477
00:22:45,001 --> 00:22:46,561
Speaker 2: my friend, don't get my hug, and I won't let go.

478
00:22:46,761 --> 00:22:49,281
Speaker 2: You know, it's strange. It's strange. I don't know. That's

479
00:22:49,321 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 2: why I wanted to know why I was emotionally attached

480
00:22:52,921 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: with myself. Yeah enough to be able to have a

481
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 2: scrap one second and then give you a hug the next,

482
00:22:59,001 --> 00:23:00,721
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? I didn't understand what's

483
00:23:00,761 --> 00:23:03,801
Speaker 2: going on. I wasn't I wasn't taught the difference between

484
00:23:05,721 --> 00:23:13,561
Speaker 2: between being a lunatic and being a lover. I wasn't

485
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,801
Speaker 2: taught the difference, so it was just merged into one,

486
00:23:15,921 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: like I'll smack you and feel bad for it. I

487
00:23:19,481 --> 00:23:21,401
Speaker 2: didn't want to do it, but I just did it,

488
00:23:21,481 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: you know. And it's I'm not proud of who I

489
00:23:24,001 --> 00:23:26,921
Speaker 2: was or what I've done, and I've apologized as I've

490
00:23:26,921 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 2: got older, and of course the trauma's been on the

491
00:23:29,481 --> 00:23:32,321
Speaker 2: other side of us now because of what happened with

492
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,601
Speaker 2: my brother, which we get to, but feeling what has

493
00:23:37,681 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 2: been done to me made me go in myself and

494
00:23:42,761 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 2: realize how much I was doing that was so negative,

495
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,001
Speaker 2: that I was making other people feel how I feel,

496
00:23:50,561 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 2: and that changed me massively.

497
00:23:53,201 --> 00:23:55,081
Speaker 1: When did you when did you think it got out of.

498
00:23:55,001 --> 00:24:03,601
Speaker 2: Hands straight straight away? As soon as he left. Soon

499
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: as he left, I I had to I literally had

500
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: to be a different person, and I'd done whatever it

501
00:24:10,561 --> 00:24:14,881
Speaker 2: took to be the person that I know that if

502
00:24:14,921 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: he ever come back, it's game time.

503
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: Oh so you were prepared to do it.

504
00:24:23,761 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 2: I was prepared to take him out, like for sure,

505
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: one hundred percent, yeah, because of what he'd done for me,

506
00:24:28,561 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 2: you know. And and I went to the gym, I

507
00:24:31,441 --> 00:24:35,441
Speaker 2: got tattoos, I was fighting. I was I was full

508
00:24:35,481 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 2: on like if you was, if you was, I turned

509
00:24:38,761 --> 00:24:42,241
Speaker 2: myself into this horrible person where if we was walking

510
00:24:42,281 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 2: down the road and he was looking and I know

511
00:24:44,201 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 2: you're going to get people on here going. Yeah. If

512
00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: I saw him in the street, it beyond and I'd

513
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 2: make it my bitch and all that. Yeah, good, good,

514
00:24:49,961 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 2: nice one, nice one. You're great. But at that time

515
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,881
Speaker 2: I was I was relentless, mate, I was relentless, and

516
00:24:57,321 --> 00:25:00,041
Speaker 2: I got involved with everything as long as it was violence,

517
00:25:00,321 --> 00:25:03,201
Speaker 2: and it allowed me to be feared. I was there

518
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 2: and it was all for one reason and one reason only.

519
00:25:06,921 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 2: It was preparing myself for when that giant come back.

520
00:25:10,441 --> 00:25:11,481
Speaker 1: Did you ever see him again?

521
00:25:12,561 --> 00:25:18,041
Speaker 2: Do you know what I did? I did? Did you

522
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:18,721
Speaker 2: give him a space?

523
00:25:19,041 --> 00:25:19,761
Speaker 1: Did you give a space?

524
00:25:20,321 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 2: This? This will shock you, actually, yeah, this will shock

525
00:25:23,201 --> 00:25:26,561
Speaker 2: you because I was younger when I saw him. Yeah,

526
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,761
Speaker 2: so I was. I was about sixteen seventeen when I

527
00:25:28,801 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 2: saw him, So I wasn't even a man, and I

528
00:25:30,481 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: was still a child. And I always said to myself,

529
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: when I see him, I'm gonna do this. He's like,

530
00:25:36,961 --> 00:25:38,641
Speaker 2: I got it in my head a million times over.

531
00:25:38,681 --> 00:25:42,321
Speaker 2: I was going to do And he come down the

532
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: road where we lived, and I was standing in the

533
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,641
Speaker 2: front garden and car went past me and I saw

534
00:25:48,681 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 2: him and he looked at me, and I was like,

535
00:25:51,961 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: that's him. And then he drove past again and didn't look,

536
00:25:56,961 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: just drove past, and I was, I was standing there

537
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,801
Speaker 2: and I just went cold. I went cold, and I

538
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 2: had it like, it's at him. What I need to

539
00:26:05,201 --> 00:26:06,961
Speaker 2: be able to be prepared for him, because he's gonna,

540
00:26:07,001 --> 00:26:09,521
Speaker 2: he's gonna, it's going to be on. Yeah. And he

541
00:26:09,561 --> 00:26:12,801
Speaker 2: wound down a window and he goes, you write Paul,

542
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 2: because he drove back and he goes, you write Paul,

543
00:26:15,321 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 2: and I was, I was looking at him, and I

544
00:26:16,681 --> 00:26:22,081
Speaker 2: was like, that was him. Brother. I froze. Never ever

545
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 2: in my life have I ever froze on anything, and

546
00:26:24,681 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: not have I ever since then? Yeah, but I went

547
00:26:28,201 --> 00:26:31,041
Speaker 2: back to being a child again. Yeah, that had been

548
00:26:31,041 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: twisted up by this gez. Like I literally froze and

549
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do. Yeah, And this was

550
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,681
Speaker 2: a shock to me because if he would have come

551
00:26:41,321 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 2: two years later, there wouldn't have been no freezing. I

552
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 2: would have because I was I was started like coming

553
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: in to myself where when things were put on me,

554
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 2: I was able to deal with it. But that was

555
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 2: kind of like the first time that was just put

556
00:26:55,441 --> 00:26:58,241
Speaker 2: on me and I just reverted back to the child

557
00:26:58,241 --> 00:27:02,001
Speaker 2: again and never ever will that ever happen to me again.

558
00:27:02,441 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 1: So after after all that and you're in your and

559
00:27:05,241 --> 00:27:08,321
Speaker 1: he's what are you up to? Then you're still being violent? Well,

560
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: tell me about tell me about a day being.

561
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: Violent, a day of being violent. It depends whether it

562
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 2: depends whether I've got a job, and like when when I.

563
00:27:18,201 --> 00:27:19,841
Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me to tell me a day when

564
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: you got pissed off and you just got when I

565
00:27:22,441 --> 00:27:24,481
Speaker 1: go out on the fucking rampage, tell me what a

566
00:27:24,561 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: day would be in the.

567
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:32,761
Speaker 2: Like from from the minute I wake up, I'm I'm

568
00:27:32,801 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: feeling it. Do you know what I mean. I'm schizophrenic anyway,

569
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: but I'm ID schizophrenic. Yeah, so like I was diagnosed

570
00:27:40,321 --> 00:27:42,201
Speaker 2: a little bit on from there, so I'm in much

571
00:27:42,201 --> 00:27:45,521
Speaker 2: when he's I'm diagnosed now that I'm ID schizophrenic. I've

572
00:27:45,561 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: been in and out of mental institutions where they they

573
00:27:47,961 --> 00:27:52,241
Speaker 2: deemed me unsafe for the public. Yeah. So if I'm

574
00:27:52,281 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 2: having a bad day, every everything everything is on, it

575
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,801
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, like if you if I was walking down

576
00:27:58,801 --> 00:28:02,801
Speaker 2: the road and this is the me that I'm ashamed of. Yeah,

577
00:28:03,001 --> 00:28:07,761
Speaker 2: now where before I thrived off of it? Yeah, but

578
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,921
Speaker 2: I would go out and if anyone who money. If

579
00:28:10,921 --> 00:28:13,721
Speaker 2: my brother was a dealer at the time, and I'd

580
00:28:13,721 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: be the one going to collect the debts for him,

581
00:28:15,681 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: and he had friends that so I'd be collecting money,

582
00:28:18,801 --> 00:28:20,761
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about, And I'd go and

583
00:28:20,801 --> 00:28:23,481
Speaker 2: collect money. So I'll turn up in the middle of

584
00:28:23,521 --> 00:28:27,121
Speaker 2: the night when you're asleep, into your kingdom where it's

585
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 2: like you feel the most safe, and I'd dominate you

586
00:28:30,441 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 2: where you are, do you know, And I'd get what

587
00:28:32,921 --> 00:28:35,761
Speaker 2: I need to get from you, and that that would

588
00:28:35,801 --> 00:28:37,281
Speaker 2: be it. So if I was having a bad day,

589
00:28:37,801 --> 00:28:41,281
Speaker 2: the people that I worked for would love it because

590
00:28:41,281 --> 00:28:43,961
Speaker 2: they'd be giving me all of this, like you need

591
00:28:43,961 --> 00:28:45,081
Speaker 2: to go and pick this up. You need to pick

592
00:28:45,081 --> 00:28:47,521
Speaker 2: this up because they know that the job's getting done.

593
00:28:48,041 --> 00:28:54,481
Speaker 2: So it is house collecting money, picking up any any

594
00:28:54,481 --> 00:28:56,561
Speaker 2: fight in between, like walking down the road. What you're

595
00:28:56,601 --> 00:28:59,841
Speaker 2: looking at this? This is what I'm saying. Like I've

596
00:28:59,841 --> 00:29:02,361
Speaker 2: said this a million times, Yeah on all the other

597
00:29:02,441 --> 00:29:04,881
Speaker 2: podcasts that I've been on, and the amount of people

598
00:29:05,121 --> 00:29:06,921
Speaker 2: go and they're going, yeah, i'd make you, my bitch,

599
00:29:06,921 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 2: I'll do you and all that. Try it, try it,

600
00:29:09,281 --> 00:29:10,801
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, don't you try it? You know,

601
00:29:10,961 --> 00:29:13,641
Speaker 2: and it's always private accounts with like no pictures, and

602
00:29:14,001 --> 00:29:17,841
Speaker 2: you know, it makes me die because yeah, you know,

603
00:29:17,961 --> 00:29:19,921
Speaker 2: real recognize real, and I know that you ain't real.

604
00:29:23,921 --> 00:29:26,681
Speaker 2: But I was. I was never I never bullied, do

605
00:29:26,721 --> 00:29:28,761
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, I never bullied. Like

606
00:29:28,841 --> 00:29:31,681
Speaker 2: the people that I did go after were people that

607
00:29:31,761 --> 00:29:34,201
Speaker 2: ooh money is that world? Do you know the world

608
00:29:34,201 --> 00:29:36,721
Speaker 2: I'm talking about? It's the world. So I wasn't out

609
00:29:36,721 --> 00:29:39,001
Speaker 2: there just smacking up someone that walked down the street,

610
00:29:39,241 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: that was walking a dog or nothing unless they started something.

611
00:29:42,521 --> 00:29:45,481
Speaker 1: You know, were you worse on alcohol or did you

612
00:29:45,321 --> 00:29:46,481
Speaker 1: know you've neverad you don't drink.

613
00:29:47,321 --> 00:29:49,881
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't drink. I don't drink. Alcohol didn't really

614
00:29:50,001 --> 00:29:52,881
Speaker 2: change me at all. I was just it was it

615
00:29:52,921 --> 00:29:55,361
Speaker 2: was the things that changed me is the people I'm

616
00:29:55,361 --> 00:29:57,961
Speaker 2: surrounded by. So if if they're negative and they're game,

617
00:29:58,441 --> 00:30:02,801
Speaker 2: i am gain. But if they're calm and they're collective,

618
00:30:02,921 --> 00:30:06,521
Speaker 2: I'm chilled. So it's what But the problem is with

619
00:30:06,681 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: because I was that way, no one wanted to be

620
00:30:08,801 --> 00:30:11,881
Speaker 2: chilled around me. Everybody that was surrounding myself with was

621
00:30:11,961 --> 00:30:16,121
Speaker 2: in the same sort of trade. If you can call

622
00:30:16,161 --> 00:30:16,321
Speaker 2: it that.

623
00:30:16,801 --> 00:30:18,161
Speaker 1: Did you ever get arrested for this?

624
00:30:19,281 --> 00:30:21,881
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been. I've been arrested multiple times.

625
00:30:22,281 --> 00:30:24,481
Speaker 2: I was. I was up in I was the first

626
00:30:24,641 --> 00:30:27,521
Speaker 2: first person to be up in the new Crown Court

627
00:30:27,521 --> 00:30:31,441
Speaker 2: here in Ipswich when I was a kid for attempted

628
00:30:31,521 --> 00:30:37,601
Speaker 2: murder and it was I got found not guilty. So yeah,

629
00:30:37,721 --> 00:30:42,681
Speaker 2: not guilty. It wasn't me, It wasn't you, wasn't me.

630
00:30:42,841 --> 00:30:44,881
Speaker 2: But I was the youngest person here in Ipswich for that.

631
00:30:45,001 --> 00:30:47,321
Speaker 2: I was the first person, the first person in the

632
00:30:47,361 --> 00:30:50,601
Speaker 2: youngest person to be tried for attempted murder in the

633
00:30:50,601 --> 00:30:52,961
Speaker 2: Crown Court here in Ipswich when I was fifteen.

634
00:30:53,201 --> 00:30:56,041
Speaker 1: Well, are the coppers the coppers give you grief over

635
00:30:56,121 --> 00:30:57,881
Speaker 1: the way you were or yeah?

636
00:30:57,961 --> 00:31:01,361
Speaker 2: So it was them that got me put in a

637
00:31:01,401 --> 00:31:03,881
Speaker 2: mental institution. They're the ones that had me put away

638
00:31:04,481 --> 00:31:07,921
Speaker 2: in this in the institution. They wouldn't the times when

639
00:31:07,961 --> 00:31:10,121
Speaker 2: I was growing up they were allowed to take you

640
00:31:10,161 --> 00:31:15,161
Speaker 2: off the street and take you immediately to mental institutions

641
00:31:15,241 --> 00:31:18,241
Speaker 2: and say do not let them out until we say yeah,

642
00:31:18,281 --> 00:31:20,761
Speaker 2: and you you were staying in there, you know, and

643
00:31:20,881 --> 00:31:23,241
Speaker 2: they won't let you out because the police have brought

644
00:31:23,241 --> 00:31:25,841
Speaker 2: you there so they can leave you there as long

645
00:31:25,841 --> 00:31:27,641
Speaker 2: as you want. And I was left there, brother, I

646
00:31:27,681 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: was left there. They forgot about me. Yeah, and I

647
00:31:31,521 --> 00:31:33,921
Speaker 2: didn't realize that that I was. I could I could

648
00:31:34,001 --> 00:31:38,561
Speaker 2: leave if I wanted to, but it was locked doors.

649
00:31:38,601 --> 00:31:39,921
Speaker 2: They have to let me out, do you know what

650
00:31:39,961 --> 00:31:42,161
Speaker 2: I mean? And they got I got told I was

651
00:31:42,161 --> 00:31:44,841
Speaker 2: allowed there. But I managed to escape from the mental institution.

652
00:31:45,921 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: I escaped. It took me a while, but I've figured

653
00:31:48,721 --> 00:31:53,561
Speaker 2: it out and I got out of it. So I

654
00:31:53,641 --> 00:31:56,641
Speaker 2: went like I went off to. I said, I wasn't

655
00:31:56,681 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 2: feeling too good. They took me off to the nurses

656
00:31:59,281 --> 00:32:01,201
Speaker 2: section of where it was, and there was a door

657
00:32:01,241 --> 00:32:04,681
Speaker 2: there that wasn't It was always open and shut and

658
00:32:04,721 --> 00:32:08,161
Speaker 2: open shutting, so it wasn't a locked door. And as

659
00:32:08,161 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: soon as that door, as soon as I realized that,

660
00:32:10,401 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: and I was there, the dock turned around, or the

661
00:32:12,481 --> 00:32:15,201
Speaker 2: nurse turned round. I turn around. I was in a gown,

662
00:32:15,401 --> 00:32:18,681
Speaker 2: open back gown. Mate. I was out. I've done the door.

663
00:32:18,841 --> 00:32:21,041
Speaker 2: I've come running through the door. I'm running across the

664
00:32:21,041 --> 00:32:24,361
Speaker 2: green like I'm thinking I'm a thundercat. Straight hands, thumb's

665
00:32:24,401 --> 00:32:27,361
Speaker 2: touched for proper speed. I'm duck down, I'm running my

666
00:32:27,481 --> 00:32:33,801
Speaker 2: I feel like a superhero because and I'm like who

667
00:32:34,521 --> 00:32:37,361
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, they listen. If I wasn't a lunatic,

668
00:32:37,481 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: I definitely looked like one running across the ground. I

669
00:32:40,481 --> 00:32:42,561
Speaker 2: stole this bike with a basket on there with a

670
00:32:42,561 --> 00:32:45,161
Speaker 2: bell and I was like bringing, bring, bing, bring, and

671
00:32:45,201 --> 00:32:48,601
Speaker 2: I was like like this. My arse was all hanging

672
00:32:48,601 --> 00:32:50,801
Speaker 2: out at the back, and yeah, I must have looked

673
00:32:50,801 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: like a right picture. I was full speed. I've never

674
00:32:58,001 --> 00:32:59,681
Speaker 2: ridden the bike so fast in my life. Mate. I

675
00:32:59,721 --> 00:33:02,481
Speaker 2: got I got back home to my mum's house. I

676
00:33:03,561 --> 00:33:06,561
Speaker 2: jumped in the car and I I was gone. Mate.

677
00:33:06,801 --> 00:33:08,801
Speaker 2: I went up to I went up and lived up

678
00:33:08,801 --> 00:33:12,401
Speaker 2: a Newcastle. Well, I went to Manchester. Yeah, I went

679
00:33:12,401 --> 00:33:16,081
Speaker 2: to Manchester to go and hide out at my friend's house.

680
00:33:16,561 --> 00:33:18,681
Speaker 2: And then I ended up meeting a girl. I ended

681
00:33:18,721 --> 00:33:22,801
Speaker 2: up in Sunderland's. We lived in Newcastle and she was

682
00:33:22,801 --> 00:33:25,041
Speaker 2: a nutter worse than what I was.

683
00:33:29,761 --> 00:33:33,001
Speaker 1: Once you go past as.

684
00:33:33,321 --> 00:33:36,841
Speaker 2: Tell me about it. But like in between, in between

685
00:33:36,881 --> 00:33:40,921
Speaker 2: all that, I was wanted for a you know, lucky.

686
00:33:41,081 --> 00:33:43,361
Speaker 2: Like I say to you, I like I'm anti it now,

687
00:33:43,681 --> 00:33:46,361
Speaker 2: but I was. I was. I was wanted for a

688
00:33:46,441 --> 00:33:51,441
Speaker 2: knife attack, which I fight against now with my charity.

689
00:33:52,561 --> 00:33:56,241
Speaker 2: But I was I tried to stab someone they called

690
00:33:56,241 --> 00:33:58,081
Speaker 2: the old Bill and me I was wanted for that.

691
00:33:58,281 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 2: They found me in I went on a missing person

692
00:34:01,281 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 2: so a danger person's think where they were going to

693
00:34:03,241 --> 00:34:05,361
Speaker 2: go on TV and say have you seen this guy?

694
00:34:05,641 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: But I was in a petrol station in York with

695
00:34:08,161 --> 00:34:13,041
Speaker 2: with this girl and a guy held a door open

696
00:34:13,641 --> 00:34:16,641
Speaker 2: and as he turned around, he seees and I hope

697
00:34:16,681 --> 00:34:19,241
Speaker 2: he watches this year. I really hope he watches this.

698
00:34:19,881 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: He opened the door for me and he turned around,

699
00:34:22,041 --> 00:34:23,601
Speaker 2: took one look at me, and let go of the door.

700
00:34:23,801 --> 00:34:27,241
Speaker 2: And it smacked me. Yeah, because I don't know he

701
00:34:27,241 --> 00:34:28,961
Speaker 2: didn't like well I looked or whatever, but he wasn't

702
00:34:29,001 --> 00:34:30,761
Speaker 2: holding the door open for me, but he was holding

703
00:34:30,761 --> 00:34:32,441
Speaker 2: it and then he released it after he looked at me,

704
00:34:32,641 --> 00:34:35,441
Speaker 2: and it smacked me. Yeah, And I said, I said,

705
00:34:35,641 --> 00:34:39,121
Speaker 2: wait for me outside. I played for the petrol. Yeah.

706
00:34:39,521 --> 00:34:41,081
Speaker 2: I was in this car, so I was. I was

707
00:34:41,081 --> 00:34:44,001
Speaker 2: a lump. Then I was I was absolutely massive. I

708
00:34:44,041 --> 00:34:45,921
Speaker 2: was a unit and I was in this tiny little

709
00:34:45,921 --> 00:34:49,681
Speaker 2: Pergo two six, so I was quite in his car.

710
00:34:50,281 --> 00:34:53,121
Speaker 2: But this guy outside he gets in his car. He

711
00:34:53,161 --> 00:34:55,641
Speaker 2: had an alpha a MAO, a purple al for a male.

712
00:34:56,041 --> 00:34:58,121
Speaker 2: And he gets in his car and as I've gone

713
00:34:58,161 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 2: walking towards him, he goes like this, locks his car

714
00:35:01,561 --> 00:35:05,961
Speaker 2: and smiles, Yeah, like he's safe in his car, like cocky.

715
00:35:06,761 --> 00:35:09,401
Speaker 2: I started smashing. I started punching the windows. I kicked

716
00:35:09,441 --> 00:35:11,641
Speaker 2: the door in. He didn't know what was going on.

717
00:35:11,681 --> 00:35:14,801
Speaker 2: I'm trying to handle. He started driving off. Yeah, and

718
00:35:14,841 --> 00:35:18,721
Speaker 2: I'm hanging onto the car. Yeah, he's driving off. He's

719
00:35:18,721 --> 00:35:21,721
Speaker 2: literally not waiting for no traffic. Mate. I'm telling you

720
00:35:22,241 --> 00:35:26,841
Speaker 2: it is stupid, stupid. Yeah, because I've put so many

721
00:35:26,841 --> 00:35:28,721
Speaker 2: people in danger that day because he just drove out

722
00:35:28,721 --> 00:35:31,521
Speaker 2: in the traffic. I fell off the car and as

723
00:35:31,521 --> 00:35:34,201
Speaker 2: I'm screaming at this guy, I turned around and when

724
00:35:34,201 --> 00:35:35,961
Speaker 2: I turned around, there's a cop There's a cop car

725
00:35:36,081 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: sitting there, and the cops were standing there and they went,

726
00:35:38,561 --> 00:35:41,161
Speaker 2: what's going on? I went, I've turned around and been

727
00:35:41,201 --> 00:35:43,761
Speaker 2: like to get in the cars chasing, And as I've

728
00:35:43,761 --> 00:35:45,521
Speaker 2: turned around, the cops are standing. They go, what's going on?

729
00:35:45,561 --> 00:35:51,481
Speaker 2: I was like, uh, and I wanted and I'm standing

730
00:35:51,481 --> 00:35:55,121
Speaker 2: there like nothing. They go, we just see you keep

731
00:35:55,161 --> 00:35:58,081
Speaker 2: that car I said, no, you didn't, so you did.

732
00:35:58,161 --> 00:36:00,921
Speaker 2: I said no, I said he closed his door when

733
00:36:00,961 --> 00:36:02,921
Speaker 2: I was leaning on it, and he had my jacket

734
00:36:03,361 --> 00:36:07,241
Speaker 2: in his car and he took me with him. They

735
00:36:07,241 --> 00:36:10,881
Speaker 2: were like really, I went yeah, And then he didn't

736
00:36:10,921 --> 00:36:12,841
Speaker 2: know that I was attached to his car. I don't think,

737
00:36:12,961 --> 00:36:16,721
Speaker 2: but he's driven off now and they took it. They

738
00:36:16,761 --> 00:36:19,681
Speaker 2: took it. They went into the petrol station and they said,

739
00:36:19,801 --> 00:36:21,761
Speaker 2: is that guy? Do you know this guys? I said again,

740
00:36:21,761 --> 00:36:24,321
Speaker 2: and i'sk in the petrol station. I was fine, yeah,

741
00:36:24,401 --> 00:36:26,201
Speaker 2: and they went in. They said no, it's fine. And

742
00:36:26,241 --> 00:36:28,361
Speaker 2: so now I'm thinking I'm getting nicked. I'm getting from

743
00:36:28,401 --> 00:36:32,321
Speaker 2: York back to Ipswich, right, so I'm kicking off now

744
00:36:32,401 --> 00:36:34,801
Speaker 2: to this coppers because there's authority and I'm like, mate,

745
00:36:34,841 --> 00:36:36,961
Speaker 2: what's your problem? Like, let's just what's that? And they

746
00:36:37,001 --> 00:36:38,521
Speaker 2: go calm down, what can we do? Calm me down?

747
00:36:38,561 --> 00:36:40,401
Speaker 2: So let me go. He said what's your name? And

748
00:36:40,441 --> 00:36:46,041
Speaker 2: I went Paul Read. He went, yeah, Paul Read. It's

749
00:36:46,161 --> 00:36:49,801
Speaker 2: because the Read was my stepdad's name, the durable guy.

750
00:36:50,161 --> 00:36:50,521
Speaker 4: Yeah.

751
00:36:51,081 --> 00:36:53,241
Speaker 2: So whilst he's talking to me, he's doing a check

752
00:36:53,281 --> 00:36:57,921
Speaker 2: on Paul Rid. Yeah, and there's like nothing. Yeah, there's

753
00:36:57,961 --> 00:36:59,921
Speaker 2: like nothing for me. So they go all right, mate,

754
00:36:59,921 --> 00:37:02,241
Speaker 2: off you go. I was like yeah, it was like yeah.

755
00:37:02,281 --> 00:37:03,841
Speaker 2: I was like, so mate, had a good day and

756
00:37:03,841 --> 00:37:06,081
Speaker 2: they've gone YouTube like more of that and I don't

757
00:37:06,081 --> 00:37:07,601
Speaker 2: know what you're talking about getting a car and I go,

758
00:37:08,081 --> 00:37:09,521
Speaker 2: I thought that was me done. I thought I was

759
00:37:09,521 --> 00:37:11,001
Speaker 2: getting what I was getting took back.

760
00:37:11,401 --> 00:37:11,881
Speaker 4: Do you do you?

761
00:37:12,961 --> 00:37:16,921
Speaker 1: I get a persona of coppers in England that I

762
00:37:16,961 --> 00:37:18,961
Speaker 1: want to sound like in a bad way, but are

763
00:37:18,961 --> 00:37:20,001
Speaker 1: they all fucking dumb?

764
00:37:21,361 --> 00:37:25,121
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like they're all dumb or they've got that small

765
00:37:25,161 --> 00:37:28,401
Speaker 2: person mentality where they were bullied so they feel like

766
00:37:28,441 --> 00:37:30,601
Speaker 2: they have to lay that authority down and everybody to

767
00:37:30,641 --> 00:37:31,681
Speaker 2: be a you know.

768
00:37:31,721 --> 00:37:35,601
Speaker 1: Because over here there's probably any everywhere over the world.

769
00:37:36,281 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: Everyone laughs at the fucking English coppers because they don't

770
00:37:40,001 --> 00:37:42,881
Speaker 1: carry a fucking gun. They carry they still carry their

771
00:37:42,921 --> 00:37:45,841
Speaker 1: fucking stupid hats on their fucking head. They've still all

772
00:37:45,841 --> 00:37:48,721
Speaker 1: they have is the fucking baton and they just get

773
00:37:48,761 --> 00:37:51,401
Speaker 1: given it every fucking day by people, you know what

774
00:37:51,401 --> 00:37:53,241
Speaker 1: I mean? And I don't know.

775
00:37:53,281 --> 00:37:56,961
Speaker 2: It's like, as as irritated as the police are here,

776
00:37:56,961 --> 00:37:59,801
Speaker 2: we're pretty gifted because, like you say, they haven't got Gune,

777
00:37:59,921 --> 00:38:05,681
Speaker 2: they haven't got they haven't got anything. Prince tell you man,

778
00:38:05,881 --> 00:38:07,721
Speaker 2: I've come across some street with coppers in my time

779
00:38:07,721 --> 00:38:09,361
Speaker 2: where I've been banking the rights and just let me

780
00:38:09,401 --> 00:38:11,521
Speaker 2: go because I've been too aggressive for him. Do you

781
00:38:11,561 --> 00:38:16,481
Speaker 2: know what I mean? They can't manage it. But my

782
00:38:16,681 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: face went out on the police database, and I want

783
00:38:23,481 --> 00:38:27,161
Speaker 2: to miss it. Yeah, I come up as a missing person.

784
00:38:27,801 --> 00:38:30,801
Speaker 2: So because I come up as a missing person and

785
00:38:30,881 --> 00:38:35,121
Speaker 2: an urgent person to get off the street, because I'd

786
00:38:35,201 --> 00:38:37,161
Speaker 2: run away from a mental institution, I was schizphrenic.

787
00:38:37,281 --> 00:38:38,641
Speaker 1: Right, were you put up as dangers?

788
00:38:39,521 --> 00:38:41,601
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I was a danger to the public. That's

789
00:38:41,601 --> 00:38:44,121
Speaker 2: what it was. It was danger to the public. Do

790
00:38:44,241 --> 00:38:49,881
Speaker 2: not approach, just call the police, which again I'm not

791
00:38:49,881 --> 00:38:52,281
Speaker 2: proud of now. But then it was awesome because I

792
00:38:52,321 --> 00:38:54,361
Speaker 2: was like it was it was the mentality that I

793
00:38:54,401 --> 00:38:56,441
Speaker 2: wanted everyone to see me to be because I thought

794
00:38:56,561 --> 00:39:00,281
Speaker 2: that I had respect from everybody, and it wasn't. There's

795
00:39:00,321 --> 00:39:05,041
Speaker 2: no respect on the street. There's nothing. It's lonely. You're lonely.

796
00:39:05,521 --> 00:39:07,201
Speaker 2: As much as you feel like you're a part of

797
00:39:07,241 --> 00:39:11,161
Speaker 2: something big, yeah you ain't. You're nothing. You're just a

798
00:39:11,201 --> 00:39:13,481
Speaker 2: person that is willing to do. We're a little bit

799
00:39:13,521 --> 00:39:15,881
Speaker 2: more than the next person, and people will love you

800
00:39:15,961 --> 00:39:18,001
Speaker 2: for that, and they'll use you for that, and then

801
00:39:18,041 --> 00:39:24,401
Speaker 2: they'll throw you away just number nobody, nothing, nothing at all,

802
00:39:25,401 --> 00:39:27,921
Speaker 2: and they put me out on the APB. I'll come

803
00:39:28,041 --> 00:39:30,761
Speaker 2: up as like this person, they found me, So I

804
00:39:30,801 --> 00:39:34,041
Speaker 2: didn't go on the forty eight hour missing TVF. We're

805
00:39:34,041 --> 00:39:36,201
Speaker 2: looking for this person, please find them. So now they

806
00:39:36,281 --> 00:39:38,121
Speaker 2: found me in York, I've had to leave York. I've

807
00:39:38,161 --> 00:39:41,321
Speaker 2: gone back to Manchester. I'm living in Manchester on Moss Side,

808
00:39:41,961 --> 00:39:47,361
Speaker 2: which was wild wild Moss Side is is a is

809
00:39:47,361 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 2: a place mate, so I'm over there.

810
00:39:49,561 --> 00:39:52,281
Speaker 1: Actually, I actually when I was when I got got

811
00:39:52,281 --> 00:39:55,121
Speaker 1: my driver's license and I was seventeen years old, my

812
00:39:55,201 --> 00:39:58,761
Speaker 1: fucking mate dared me to drive to Manchester and go

813
00:39:58,841 --> 00:40:03,481
Speaker 1: through my side, and I remember, fucking fucking naive. We

814
00:40:03,521 --> 00:40:07,041
Speaker 1: got off there and I where I just didn't think

815
00:40:07,041 --> 00:40:08,481
Speaker 1: I was gonna like it's like, I don't know if

816
00:40:08,481 --> 00:40:10,041
Speaker 1: you've ever been to Liverpool, and there's a there's a

817
00:40:10,041 --> 00:40:13,241
Speaker 1: place exactly like it called Granby Street and the fucking

818
00:40:13,281 --> 00:40:15,201
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. And he dared me to do

819
00:40:15,241 --> 00:40:17,961
Speaker 1: the same thing there, and they fucking stalled my car,

820
00:40:18,281 --> 00:40:20,161
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's just like, what the fuck?

821
00:40:22,121 --> 00:40:24,161
Speaker 1: So I know what you're talking about.

822
00:40:25,441 --> 00:40:28,841
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's just madness. But you know who you

823
00:40:28,881 --> 00:40:30,561
Speaker 2: were with everyone there? Do you know what I mean?

824
00:40:30,601 --> 00:40:32,361
Speaker 2: You know where you are with everyone? There is no

825
00:40:32,521 --> 00:40:35,281
Speaker 2: there's no hidden agendas. Everyone is on the same thing,

826
00:40:35,601 --> 00:40:39,041
Speaker 2: which is real dangerous because you've always got people at

827
00:40:39,081 --> 00:40:42,921
Speaker 2: hand to do jobs. So you just you're never not

828
00:40:43,001 --> 00:40:45,721
Speaker 2: out of trouble. Well, you're always in trouble because if

829
00:40:45,801 --> 00:40:47,441
Speaker 2: you don't stick up for the person in the street,

830
00:40:47,441 --> 00:40:50,121
Speaker 2: you ain't help him in the street, you know what

831
00:40:50,161 --> 00:40:50,481
Speaker 2: I mean?

832
00:40:50,601 --> 00:40:53,921
Speaker 1: So, but did you did you follow suito? But by

833
00:40:53,961 --> 00:40:55,921
Speaker 1: being it, by being in that area, did you like

834
00:40:55,961 --> 00:40:58,201
Speaker 1: to did you think, you know, like with everyone else

835
00:40:58,201 --> 00:40:59,561
Speaker 1: what they were doing, did you follow.

836
00:40:59,401 --> 00:41:02,681
Speaker 2: Suit with them? Mate? I didn't listen. I didn't. I

837
00:41:02,721 --> 00:41:05,681
Speaker 2: didn't fall in line with nobody, didn't fall in on

838
00:41:05,841 --> 00:41:10,281
Speaker 2: with nobody. I wanted it. I was hungry for it.

839
00:41:10,321 --> 00:41:13,201
Speaker 2: I was bread to be that person. So I was

840
00:41:13,281 --> 00:41:15,881
Speaker 2: always game. It wasn't like do you want to come?

841
00:41:15,961 --> 00:41:19,481
Speaker 2: It was like I'm in you know. I was always

842
00:41:19,561 --> 00:41:21,441
Speaker 2: I was the game person that was ready to go.

843
00:41:21,521 --> 00:41:23,441
Speaker 2: And that's where I made the biggest mistake, because I

844
00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:27,721
Speaker 2: felt like doing more. Doing the things that led me

845
00:41:27,801 --> 00:41:32,121
Speaker 2: to be not so much feared but to be unpredictable,

846
00:41:33,361 --> 00:41:35,481
Speaker 2: led me to believe that I had love where it

847
00:41:35,601 --> 00:41:38,201
Speaker 2: wasn't because I was looking for something that I never

848
00:41:38,241 --> 00:41:41,521
Speaker 2: had as a child, and that was you.

849
00:41:42,121 --> 00:41:45,241
Speaker 1: Felt wanted by everybody else because of the fact that

850
00:41:45,241 --> 00:41:47,601
Speaker 1: they wanted you for who, what you were, like, what

851
00:41:47,641 --> 00:41:50,121
Speaker 1: you could do for them, And so you felt wanted

852
00:41:50,161 --> 00:41:52,081
Speaker 1: because you didn't get that from your mom or your father,

853
00:41:52,201 --> 00:41:52,721
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

854
00:41:53,361 --> 00:41:56,161
Speaker 2: So it was crazier I was the more people wanted

855
00:41:56,161 --> 00:41:58,641
Speaker 2: me around, you know what I mean. And I thought

856
00:41:58,641 --> 00:42:01,921
Speaker 2: that I was truly I felt like I belonged somewhere

857
00:42:02,401 --> 00:42:06,041
Speaker 2: where I wasn't actually supposed to. I wasn't. I didn't.

858
00:42:06,161 --> 00:42:09,801
Speaker 2: I didn't belong there, you know, because the love from

859
00:42:09,801 --> 00:42:14,521
Speaker 2: the street was the greatest thing ever. When I had nothing,

860
00:42:16,201 --> 00:42:18,441
Speaker 2: I didn't even have my soul, I never had anything.

861
00:42:18,521 --> 00:42:21,481
Speaker 2: I surrendered to everybody around me, and I was willing

862
00:42:21,921 --> 00:42:23,841
Speaker 2: to die. I was willing to go to jail. I

863
00:42:23,921 --> 00:42:28,001
Speaker 2: was willing to give up everything on who I was

864
00:42:29,001 --> 00:42:31,961
Speaker 2: to be a part of this society, do you know

865
00:42:32,001 --> 00:42:38,041
Speaker 2: what I mean? This family, this unit of just security

866
00:42:38,801 --> 00:42:41,001
Speaker 2: because ain't no one touching us when we're together in

867
00:42:41,041 --> 00:42:43,241
Speaker 2: a group, you know. And again it's not it wasn't

868
00:42:43,281 --> 00:42:44,841
Speaker 2: gang mentality. It was family.

869
00:42:45,361 --> 00:42:47,961
Speaker 1: And now where's where's your where's your proper family when

870
00:42:47,961 --> 00:42:48,441
Speaker 1: this is going on?

871
00:42:48,481 --> 00:42:48,601
Speaker 2: Though?

872
00:42:48,601 --> 00:42:50,081
Speaker 1: When you when you're in Manchester.

873
00:42:49,681 --> 00:42:53,121
Speaker 2: With are they they're doing their own thing. My brothers,

874
00:42:53,361 --> 00:42:56,041
Speaker 2: my brother was off doing heting because he got into

875
00:42:56,121 --> 00:42:58,921
Speaker 2: drugs pretty heavy and he was off doing his thing.

876
00:42:59,001 --> 00:43:01,561
Speaker 2: And my sisters and my mum they're like super close,

877
00:43:01,601 --> 00:43:04,041
Speaker 2: so it's like them, and then it's like me and

878
00:43:04,081 --> 00:43:07,321
Speaker 2: my brother are the We'd get contacted if something was

879
00:43:07,321 --> 00:43:11,241
Speaker 2: going wrong or they needed some cash or something would

880
00:43:11,361 --> 00:43:15,281
Speaker 2: would get I'd get the call for the cash, and

881
00:43:15,441 --> 00:43:17,401
Speaker 2: my brother, my brother and me would get the call

882
00:43:17,441 --> 00:43:19,441
Speaker 2: if if they is something someone had said something to

883
00:43:19,481 --> 00:43:21,121
Speaker 2: the family would come back and we'd deal with it

884
00:43:21,161 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 2: and then go back and carry on with what we're doing.

885
00:43:23,001 --> 00:43:24,601
Speaker 1: You know, what's the worst thing you've done?

886
00:43:24,961 --> 00:43:28,521
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't really done a lot by law of previction,

887
00:43:29,361 --> 00:43:36,121
Speaker 2: but like the alleged crimes, what I've been alleged to

888
00:43:36,161 --> 00:43:39,121
Speaker 2: have done, you know, is.

889
00:43:41,641 --> 00:43:55,401
Speaker 4: Allegedly, we'll go with allegedly yet.

890
00:43:56,881 --> 00:44:03,441
Speaker 2: Allegedly allegedly there was you know, guns and the attempted

891
00:44:03,521 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 2: murder thing and which I got found not guilty on And.

892
00:44:10,041 --> 00:44:21,601
Speaker 1: What was it like? What was your stock now like that.

893
00:44:17,121 --> 00:44:18,281
Speaker 2: We should have had this conversation?

894
00:44:20,921 --> 00:44:28,201
Speaker 1: What what what was it like? Allegedly you've you've had weapons, right,

895
00:44:28,521 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: You've you've seen weapons before. What was it like being

896
00:44:32,001 --> 00:44:36,601
Speaker 1: that age to actually see it powerful?

897
00:44:36,641 --> 00:44:39,521
Speaker 2: I've only I only seen this stuff in on TV.

898
00:44:39,641 --> 00:44:42,241
Speaker 2: And and as like when I was growing up, I

899
00:44:42,281 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 2: was so naive to the world because I didn't think

900
00:44:44,481 --> 00:44:47,721
Speaker 2: anything happened outside the house because I was never allowed

901
00:44:47,801 --> 00:44:50,521
Speaker 2: out of the house. So when I started seeing this,

902
00:44:50,881 --> 00:44:54,841
Speaker 2: you're progressing so fast in the criminal underworld that you

903
00:44:55,161 --> 00:44:58,761
Speaker 2: become somebody, but really your nobody. Like there's so there's

904
00:44:58,801 --> 00:45:01,761
Speaker 2: there's so many levels of criminal and in them levels,

905
00:45:01,801 --> 00:45:04,161
Speaker 2: you can be in that same me and you could

906
00:45:04,161 --> 00:45:08,281
Speaker 2: be in the same level of criminal, but your version

907
00:45:08,361 --> 00:45:12,401
Speaker 2: of that criminal could be like your nuts or you'll

908
00:45:12,481 --> 00:45:14,601
Speaker 2: use a weapon, you'll shoot someone where I would kill

909
00:45:14,601 --> 00:45:16,961
Speaker 2: someone with my hands. You know. It was kind of

910
00:45:17,001 --> 00:45:19,921
Speaker 2: like that. So you can progress in a group so

911
00:45:20,121 --> 00:45:22,601
Speaker 2: much because you don't need to be hard. You don't

912
00:45:22,601 --> 00:45:24,121
Speaker 2: need to be a murderer. You don't need to be

913
00:45:24,201 --> 00:45:25,881
Speaker 2: a tall man, you don't need to be a thief.

914
00:45:26,241 --> 00:45:30,681
Speaker 2: If your game you're all the same. Yeah, do you

915
00:45:30,761 --> 00:45:33,481
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Because if you had a specific

916
00:45:33,681 --> 00:45:38,201
Speaker 2: tool you fight in or your height, your stature, your aggression,

917
00:45:38,441 --> 00:45:42,001
Speaker 2: your your kindness could talk to someone where you couldn't

918
00:45:42,001 --> 00:45:44,601
Speaker 2: get money off of, like you would all be that

919
00:45:44,721 --> 00:45:49,841
Speaker 2: same value. You're just used a different way. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,

920
00:45:49,881 --> 00:45:53,601
Speaker 2: And brother, I was used. I was used just as

921
00:45:53,681 --> 00:46:02,121
Speaker 2: much as you were used. Yeah, And it hurts because but.

922
00:46:02,121 --> 00:46:06,681
Speaker 1: What would that what? In what way? Do you feel used?

923
00:46:06,721 --> 00:46:06,881
Speaker 3: Though?

924
00:46:07,601 --> 00:46:09,361
Speaker 1: Like you did you feel used in the way that

925
00:46:09,441 --> 00:46:11,561
Speaker 1: they've used your foot for your ability and for your

926
00:46:11,641 --> 00:46:13,881
Speaker 1: for your what you can do for them? Or do

927
00:46:13,961 --> 00:46:17,281
Speaker 1: you feel used because do you feel like it was

928
00:46:17,321 --> 00:46:18,881
Speaker 1: a waste of years?

929
00:46:19,321 --> 00:46:22,041
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? One hundred percent. But at the same time,

930
00:46:22,401 --> 00:46:24,521
Speaker 2: I can say it's a I can say it's a

931
00:46:24,561 --> 00:46:26,801
Speaker 2: waste of years. Yeah, but it's curved me to be

932
00:46:26,841 --> 00:46:29,361
Speaker 2: who I am today. And I'm a great man today,

933
00:46:29,361 --> 00:46:30,841
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Like I'm a great

934
00:46:30,881 --> 00:46:34,201
Speaker 2: I do a lot today that that showed that that

935
00:46:34,401 --> 00:46:37,721
Speaker 2: gives real respect and strength to my community rather than

936
00:46:37,801 --> 00:46:40,161
Speaker 2: take it away. So it has curved me to be

937
00:46:40,161 --> 00:46:42,721
Speaker 2: a better person and it you know, without that, I

938
00:46:42,721 --> 00:46:45,481
Speaker 2: probably wouldn't be who I am today. So I can

939
00:46:45,561 --> 00:46:49,201
Speaker 2: thank that as well as I can still regret it.

940
00:46:49,241 --> 00:46:49,881
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

941
00:46:50,481 --> 00:46:52,521
Speaker 1: You get but you get real Do you get respect

942
00:46:52,521 --> 00:46:57,081
Speaker 1: off the coppers now? For how how are they totally

943
00:46:57,121 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: different towards now?

944
00:46:58,761 --> 00:47:01,801
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. Like, don't get me wrong, there's

945
00:47:01,801 --> 00:47:03,401
Speaker 2: still some of them coppers that are rested it that

946
00:47:03,401 --> 00:47:06,401
Speaker 2: would see that I am not a changed person, you know.

947
00:47:06,561 --> 00:47:09,361
Speaker 2: And if say, for instance, someone calls the police for me,

948
00:47:09,761 --> 00:47:12,121
Speaker 2: it wouldn't just be one copy that turns up. There'll

949
00:47:12,121 --> 00:47:14,481
Speaker 2: be a lot, you know, and they'll still treat me

950
00:47:14,521 --> 00:47:18,201
Speaker 2: out on that person. But since since my brother, I

951
00:47:18,281 --> 00:47:23,241
Speaker 2: was such After I lost my brother, I was so

952
00:47:23,281 --> 00:47:26,241
Speaker 2: sure that I was going to find these people that

953
00:47:26,361 --> 00:47:29,961
Speaker 2: killed him that the police knew that I was going

954
00:47:29,961 --> 00:47:32,161
Speaker 2: to kill these guys and it was a race between

955
00:47:32,201 --> 00:47:36,521
Speaker 2: them and me getting them first. I was such hard

956
00:47:36,561 --> 00:47:39,961
Speaker 2: work for the family liaison through every crime you get

957
00:47:40,001 --> 00:47:42,401
Speaker 2: handed a liaison officer. If you're a victim of crime,

958
00:47:42,521 --> 00:47:45,081
Speaker 2: you get given a liaison officer. That's an officer that

959
00:47:45,321 --> 00:47:48,001
Speaker 2: is there for you pretty much twenty four to seven.

960
00:47:48,361 --> 00:47:51,041
Speaker 2: If you need to talk, or you have any problems,

961
00:47:51,121 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 2: or you have any think that you want to talk

962
00:47:52,961 --> 00:47:55,241
Speaker 2: to the police about the family, liaisons there for you.

963
00:47:56,601 --> 00:47:58,281
Speaker 2: I was such an issue. I went through four of

964
00:47:58,321 --> 00:48:02,081
Speaker 2: them and they left me. They said, I cannot deal

965
00:48:02,081 --> 00:48:05,801
Speaker 2: with this guy. He's so unpredictable. I cannot scares me.

966
00:48:06,281 --> 00:48:08,881
Speaker 2: I cannot talk to this guy. And I was rejected

967
00:48:08,881 --> 00:48:11,961
Speaker 2: by them all. And I ended up coming across two

968
00:48:12,041 --> 00:48:15,761
Speaker 2: liaison officers that was that come on my level and

969
00:48:15,801 --> 00:48:19,961
Speaker 2: they were I see that they wanted to help and

970
00:48:20,001 --> 00:48:24,081
Speaker 2: they wasn't a problem. So I accepted them. And it's

971
00:48:24,201 --> 00:48:31,481
Speaker 2: Andy Moore and and oh my god, Miranda Miranda. I

972
00:48:31,481 --> 00:48:34,121
Speaker 2: don't know her last name, but these two they were

973
00:48:34,161 --> 00:48:36,641
Speaker 2: the perfect Jing and yang for me at that time,

974
00:48:37,001 --> 00:48:38,881
Speaker 2: and they accepted me, and I accepted them to be

975
00:48:38,961 --> 00:48:41,121
Speaker 2: my liaison officers. But brother, I went for them all.

976
00:48:41,361 --> 00:48:43,601
Speaker 2: They were scared. They didn't want me, they didn't want

977
00:48:43,601 --> 00:48:45,081
Speaker 2: to talk to me, they didn't want to handle me,

978
00:48:45,161 --> 00:48:47,481
Speaker 2: they didn't want to come anywhere near me. When I

979
00:48:47,481 --> 00:48:48,761
Speaker 2: had them in there, they wouldn't meet me. In a

980
00:48:48,841 --> 00:48:51,121
Speaker 2: room because they felt like I wouldn't let him out

981
00:48:51,441 --> 00:48:54,401
Speaker 2: because they're not listening to what I'm saying. I put

982
00:48:54,401 --> 00:48:58,321
Speaker 2: the fear of God in them. So now after that,

983
00:48:58,841 --> 00:49:01,881
Speaker 2: because I was the hardest person that they'd ever managed

984
00:49:02,201 --> 00:49:06,841
Speaker 2: within the crime aspect, they've got me. I go into

985
00:49:06,881 --> 00:49:09,241
Speaker 2: the police station now and I train the Asian officers

986
00:49:09,281 --> 00:49:11,721
Speaker 2: on how to manage people like me. It's a big turnaround.

987
00:49:12,201 --> 00:49:15,681
Speaker 2: It's a massive turnaround, and it's really rewarded for me

988
00:49:15,761 --> 00:49:18,121
Speaker 2: because I still get to keep my brother's legacy alive

989
00:49:18,281 --> 00:49:20,881
Speaker 2: doing things like this. And it's weird because I'm sitting

990
00:49:20,921 --> 00:49:24,081
Speaker 2: in the I'm sitting in a classroom teaching police officers

991
00:49:24,121 --> 00:49:26,241
Speaker 2: how to manage criminals.

992
00:49:28,081 --> 00:49:32,001
Speaker 1: Let's because you've got into your brother, now, let's let's

993
00:49:32,161 --> 00:49:34,321
Speaker 1: let's talk about the brother. But let's before we talk

994
00:49:34,361 --> 00:49:39,641
Speaker 1: about the situation, talk about your brother in a let's

995
00:49:39,721 --> 00:49:44,721
Speaker 1: let's get an insight of your brother before the situation happened.

996
00:49:45,921 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: My brother had a different dad to me. He didn't

997
00:49:50,001 --> 00:49:53,121
Speaker 2: know who his dad was. My mum was very quiet

998
00:49:53,121 --> 00:49:55,521
Speaker 2: on who his dad was, so that that troubled him

999
00:49:55,521 --> 00:50:00,201
Speaker 2: a lot. You could see that my brother wasn't a

1000
00:50:00,201 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 2: full brother because even though he was to me, but

1001
00:50:03,561 --> 00:50:05,161
Speaker 2: like genetically you can tell he weren't. He it was

1002
00:50:05,161 --> 00:50:07,641
Speaker 2: a little bit mixed race, and I thought that we

1003
00:50:07,681 --> 00:50:09,521
Speaker 2: was led to believe that my dad was his dad,

1004
00:50:09,761 --> 00:50:12,121
Speaker 2: and my dad accepted that that it was his son.

1005
00:50:12,881 --> 00:50:14,961
Speaker 2: It went until we got older that I realized that

1006
00:50:15,001 --> 00:50:16,921
Speaker 2: he wasn't and that's why my dad didn't like him.

1007
00:50:17,641 --> 00:50:19,721
Speaker 2: My dad used to punch him up and all sorts.

1008
00:50:19,841 --> 00:50:22,201
Speaker 2: Yeah again, I never saw it, but I just saw

1009
00:50:22,201 --> 00:50:24,321
Speaker 2: the aftermath of it. But my rather really hated my

1010
00:50:24,401 --> 00:50:28,241
Speaker 2: dad for that, and really hated him for that and

1011
00:50:28,641 --> 00:50:30,481
Speaker 2: blamed him for a lot of a lot of the things.

1012
00:50:30,561 --> 00:50:34,721
Speaker 2: My brother ran away from home. He'd spent a fair

1013
00:50:34,721 --> 00:50:36,841
Speaker 2: bit of his time. I feel like my brother belonged

1014
00:50:36,841 --> 00:50:39,641
Speaker 2: to the street. He belonged. He belonged to the street

1015
00:50:39,641 --> 00:50:42,841
Speaker 2: because that was where he felt most most at home.

1016
00:50:42,961 --> 00:50:47,201
Speaker 2: I believe he was homeless in London for a choice

1017
00:50:47,241 --> 00:50:51,681
Speaker 2: of He ran away. He met his people, and he

1018
00:50:51,801 --> 00:50:55,241
Speaker 2: hung with his people. They sofa surved and they raved,

1019
00:50:55,321 --> 00:50:57,921
Speaker 2: and he was a rave head and he just loved life.

1020
00:50:57,961 --> 00:51:00,881
Speaker 2: He was so good looking, like he was a real

1021
00:51:00,961 --> 00:51:02,521
Speaker 2: good looking fellow, do you know what I mean? All

1022
00:51:02,521 --> 00:51:06,601
Speaker 2: the girls loved him. He was roper people person. Everybody

1023
00:51:06,601 --> 00:51:10,081
Speaker 2: loved him. He could dance, he could, you know, he

1024
00:51:10,081 --> 00:51:12,601
Speaker 2: could pull any bird. He could, you know. He was

1025
00:51:12,921 --> 00:51:16,561
Speaker 2: He played football, and he played football so good that

1026
00:51:16,601 --> 00:51:18,841
Speaker 2: he could have actually done something with it. And he

1027
00:51:18,921 --> 00:51:21,401
Speaker 2: was a kickboxer as well, and he was so good

1028
00:51:21,441 --> 00:51:23,801
Speaker 2: at kickboxing that he could have gone somewhere with that

1029
00:51:23,881 --> 00:51:27,041
Speaker 2: as well. But because home life wasn't steady for him,

1030
00:51:27,521 --> 00:51:29,561
Speaker 2: he found more comfort in the street and instead of

1031
00:51:29,641 --> 00:51:34,201
Speaker 2: keeping that within the classroom mentality, he took it out

1032
00:51:34,201 --> 00:51:40,841
Speaker 2: to the street. And he was But me and my

1033
00:51:40,881 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 2: brother were both very very handy. Yeah, we was very

1034
00:51:43,961 --> 00:51:47,121
Speaker 2: handy to know, and we was handy for anything. We

1035
00:51:47,121 --> 00:51:49,881
Speaker 2: was game. We was game game. It was he violent

1036
00:51:50,241 --> 00:51:53,041
Speaker 2: as you will, This is what I was just about

1037
00:51:53,041 --> 00:51:54,681
Speaker 2: to say. But we were two different people when it

1038
00:51:54,721 --> 00:51:57,441
Speaker 2: comes to violence. My brother could really have a fight.

1039
00:51:57,601 --> 00:52:01,721
Speaker 2: He could really really handle himself where he but he

1040
00:52:01,721 --> 00:52:03,601
Speaker 2: would go to a fight so you're on the floor

1041
00:52:03,601 --> 00:52:06,281
Speaker 2: and then back off me. I would continue. I would

1042
00:52:06,321 --> 00:52:09,321
Speaker 2: go past that next level. So where he was the

1043
00:52:09,361 --> 00:52:13,561
Speaker 2: calm and collective handled fighter, he was a controlled fighter.

1044
00:52:13,921 --> 00:52:17,041
Speaker 2: I was the op total opposite spectrum. I was like

1045
00:52:17,161 --> 00:52:19,161
Speaker 2: let's back and let's pull them at pieces, you know,

1046
00:52:19,321 --> 00:52:22,081
Speaker 2: like and it was and if I come away from it,

1047
00:52:22,321 --> 00:52:25,001
Speaker 2: my head would be bad. And the doctors tell me

1048
00:52:25,041 --> 00:52:27,401
Speaker 2: it was my skits that made me feel like that way,

1049
00:52:27,441 --> 00:52:30,681
Speaker 2: because when I'd leave, I felt like I'd go over

1050
00:52:30,721 --> 00:52:33,361
Speaker 2: the scenarios in my head because I needed to go

1051
00:52:33,401 --> 00:52:35,761
Speaker 2: back and do what what I've got going on in

1052
00:52:35,761 --> 00:52:38,721
Speaker 2: my head. I wish I'd done more because I needed

1053
00:52:38,961 --> 00:52:41,641
Speaker 2: to show these people that I had to put them apart,

1054
00:52:41,721 --> 00:52:44,401
Speaker 2: you know. I wanted to, you know, I really wanted

1055
00:52:44,441 --> 00:52:46,921
Speaker 2: to teach them a lesson where my brother the lesson

1056
00:52:46,961 --> 00:52:48,481
Speaker 2: would be, I'd smack you, fall on the floor, I'd

1057
00:52:48,481 --> 00:52:51,321
Speaker 2: pick you back up, shake hands and go. And I

1058
00:52:51,361 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 2: admired that with him, you know, and you knew where

1059
00:52:54,521 --> 00:52:57,441
Speaker 2: he was. With him, I was always the unpredictable brother,

1060
00:52:57,641 --> 00:52:59,921
Speaker 2: and he was always the like you knew where you

1061
00:52:59,961 --> 00:53:04,801
Speaker 2: stood with him, you know. So he was the like

1062
00:53:04,841 --> 00:53:09,081
Speaker 2: the gentleman, and he was a really loved person and

1063
00:53:09,841 --> 00:53:13,241
Speaker 2: you know, anyone that he fought, he dominated, and you know,

1064
00:53:13,281 --> 00:53:15,081
Speaker 2: he was like the guy that was down the pub

1065
00:53:15,161 --> 00:53:17,961
Speaker 2: and like say, the girls loved him everything. And he

1066
00:53:18,001 --> 00:53:20,521
Speaker 2: had money because he was dealing he was dealing pills

1067
00:53:20,561 --> 00:53:22,681
Speaker 2: and stuff at that time, you know, like the Mitstubshi

1068
00:53:22,761 --> 00:53:26,041
Speaker 2: turbos and all that and ash, like he was cooking

1069
00:53:26,081 --> 00:53:27,561
Speaker 2: it in a microwave so he can cut it up,

1070
00:53:27,601 --> 00:53:28,921
Speaker 2: you know, like he'd it up so he can cut

1071
00:53:28,961 --> 00:53:31,961
Speaker 2: it because it was too hard, you know. And he

1072
00:53:32,121 --> 00:53:34,801
Speaker 2: just always looked smart. He had. He always used to

1073
00:53:34,881 --> 00:53:37,161
Speaker 2: wear shirts like you know, the Ben Sherman shirts or

1074
00:53:37,201 --> 00:53:40,401
Speaker 2: a roundphoer Ends shirts, the jeans and the Rebot classics.

1075
00:53:40,441 --> 00:53:44,681
Speaker 2: Like it was always he was always just just clean.

1076
00:53:44,761 --> 00:53:47,041
Speaker 2: He was just he was just a geezer, you know.

1077
00:53:47,161 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 2: He was a man around town. And then he went

1078
00:53:51,521 --> 00:53:57,561
Speaker 2: to jail for driving without a license and an abh.

1079
00:53:58,321 --> 00:54:00,241
Speaker 2: He went at jaw and whilst he was in Jai,

1080
00:54:00,361 --> 00:54:04,761
Speaker 2: he's missus left him. And because I said to him,

1081
00:54:04,761 --> 00:54:08,001
Speaker 2: when the first time you've done that hard drug like crack,

1082
00:54:08,161 --> 00:54:10,281
Speaker 2: you know, and he sell mate. He had a cell

1083
00:54:10,361 --> 00:54:12,521
Speaker 2: mate and his cell mate gave it to him. He said, listen, mate,

1084
00:54:12,561 --> 00:54:14,841
Speaker 2: this will help you tonight. My brother was upset and

1085
00:54:14,881 --> 00:54:16,721
Speaker 2: he said, my brother said to me that he goes.

1086
00:54:16,761 --> 00:54:18,601
Speaker 2: I was crying. I was, I was a mess. And

1087
00:54:18,641 --> 00:54:20,201
Speaker 2: he gave me this and said I forget it. So

1088
00:54:20,241 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: I just wanted to forget. And he said he'd done

1089
00:54:22,441 --> 00:54:24,401
Speaker 2: his first hit whilst he was in prison, and he

1090
00:54:24,481 --> 00:54:26,041
Speaker 2: never looked back from there, and he spent the rest

1091
00:54:26,081 --> 00:54:28,481
Speaker 2: of his time trying to chase that first high again.

1092
00:54:29,041 --> 00:54:33,201
Speaker 2: And that's, you know, that's that was his downfall. You know,

1093
00:54:33,441 --> 00:54:35,801
Speaker 2: to find that you get a habit, especially one as

1094
00:54:35,961 --> 00:54:38,601
Speaker 2: aggressive as what he had. It started in prison.

1095
00:54:39,201 --> 00:54:44,361
Speaker 1: Tell me about the night that happened. Were your brother

1096
00:54:44,441 --> 00:54:48,041
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen were you with him now?

1097
00:54:48,081 --> 00:54:51,041
Speaker 2: I wish I was. I wish I was. I'd take

1098
00:54:51,081 --> 00:54:53,561
Speaker 2: his place any day.

1099
00:54:56,001 --> 00:54:58,401
Speaker 1: To tell me what talk me through it well, but

1100
00:54:58,601 --> 00:55:00,881
Speaker 1: like from what you know and what you you know

1101
00:55:01,361 --> 00:55:02,201
Speaker 1: what happened that line?

1102
00:55:02,361 --> 00:55:06,801
Speaker 2: So I was. I was at work. A friend of mine.

1103
00:55:06,801 --> 00:55:08,521
Speaker 2: He always gets me on this because he says that

1104
00:55:08,561 --> 00:55:10,601
Speaker 2: he never said it, but I know he did. He's

1105
00:55:10,641 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 2: here now, actually, and he he had he was happy.

1106
00:55:14,521 --> 00:55:16,201
Speaker 2: My friend was having my best mate was having. He

1107
00:55:16,241 --> 00:55:22,361
Speaker 2: was having a bad day, and he said he got

1108
00:55:22,361 --> 00:55:24,521
Speaker 2: on the bus and he gets on the bus home

1109
00:55:24,641 --> 00:55:28,321
Speaker 2: the route where this happened, and he was like, I was,

1110
00:55:28,321 --> 00:55:29,881
Speaker 2: I had to wait this song for the bus. And

1111
00:55:32,201 --> 00:55:34,561
Speaker 2: he'd done a video where the bridge was all cornered

1112
00:55:34,601 --> 00:55:37,321
Speaker 2: off and the bus had to go around the long way,

1113
00:55:37,841 --> 00:55:40,841
Speaker 2: and he sent me this picture and he said, ah,

1114
00:55:41,001 --> 00:55:44,561
Speaker 2: he goes like he swore, and I said it was

1115
00:55:44,601 --> 00:55:49,201
Speaker 2: probably another crackhead and he'd gone home and he had

1116
00:55:49,201 --> 00:55:51,401
Speaker 2: to go the long way home. And I was like, cool,

1117
00:55:51,481 --> 00:55:55,321
Speaker 2: what's going on there? And I didn't think nothing of it.

1118
00:55:55,361 --> 00:55:57,601
Speaker 2: But at the time when it happened, I was tattoing

1119
00:55:57,601 --> 00:56:03,241
Speaker 2: a girl who I know in my studio, And at

1120
00:56:03,281 --> 00:56:05,241
Speaker 2: the time that it happened, I got a real had

1121
00:56:05,281 --> 00:56:08,641
Speaker 2: shooting paint. Yeah, and I broke out in a sweat,

1122
00:56:09,441 --> 00:56:11,081
Speaker 2: and I didn't think nothing of it. I thought I

1123
00:56:11,121 --> 00:56:13,561
Speaker 2: was having to like sugar drop or something. Yeah, and

1124
00:56:13,601 --> 00:56:15,521
Speaker 2: she's like, do you want a minute? And I'm sweating.

1125
00:56:15,801 --> 00:56:18,881
Speaker 2: I've come over like weed. Yeah. I didn't know what happened.

1126
00:56:19,121 --> 00:56:20,881
Speaker 2: It turned out at the time that i'd come over

1127
00:56:20,921 --> 00:56:25,681
Speaker 2: with was the time that my brother got stabbed. It's like,

1128
00:56:25,801 --> 00:56:28,161
Speaker 2: I cannot explain it, and just I just felt it.

1129
00:56:28,281 --> 00:56:32,801
Speaker 2: I felt like I felt him get stabbed, and so

1130
00:56:32,841 --> 00:56:36,721
Speaker 2: he's gone home and I finished work that day. We

1131
00:56:36,761 --> 00:56:39,001
Speaker 2: didn't I didn't hear nothing more about the incident. I

1132
00:56:39,081 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 2: finished work that day it has all been cornered off.

1133
00:56:41,921 --> 00:56:44,641
Speaker 2: I'd gone to my ex's house to pick up my

1134
00:56:44,721 --> 00:56:47,641
Speaker 2: daughter because it was it was it was my daughter's night,

1135
00:56:47,681 --> 00:56:51,681
Speaker 2: so I got there. I dropped my daughter off. At

1136
00:56:51,721 --> 00:56:55,281
Speaker 2: ten o'clock. I'm in the petrol station getting some petrol

1137
00:56:55,441 --> 00:56:58,281
Speaker 2: to go back home, and I get a phone call

1138
00:56:58,321 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 2: from my mum and I mean that I'm just about

1139
00:57:01,481 --> 00:57:04,161
Speaker 2: to pay for the petrol and my mom's screaming down

1140
00:57:04,201 --> 00:57:06,921
Speaker 2: the phone always I've never heard, and I can't get

1141
00:57:06,921 --> 00:57:08,921
Speaker 2: it out of my head. She's like, they've got him,

1142
00:57:08,921 --> 00:57:11,361
Speaker 2: they've got him. And I said, got what? And I

1143
00:57:11,401 --> 00:57:13,681
Speaker 2: said they've got him, They've got him. And I'm like what.

1144
00:57:13,961 --> 00:57:16,561
Speaker 2: She's screaming, crying. I'm like, you need to calm down.

1145
00:57:16,561 --> 00:57:19,401
Speaker 2: What's going on. Dean's dead. And I was like what.

1146
00:57:19,721 --> 00:57:21,321
Speaker 2: She went, I said, what do you mean? I said,

1147
00:57:21,321 --> 00:57:23,481
Speaker 2: are you sure it's him? She's like, he's dead, he's dead.

1148
00:57:23,761 --> 00:57:26,441
Speaker 2: I said, Mum, he's probably not, Like he's not. Yeah,

1149
00:57:26,521 --> 00:57:28,321
Speaker 2: she goes, he is. I said, how do you know

1150
00:57:28,361 --> 00:57:32,521
Speaker 2: it's him? She said, the police are here, and she's screaming.

1151
00:57:32,521 --> 00:57:34,361
Speaker 2: She's like she's shouting at the coppers get out of

1152
00:57:34,401 --> 00:57:38,841
Speaker 2: my fucking house. Sorry, if you're not allowed to. She's like,

1153
00:57:39,321 --> 00:57:41,281
Speaker 2: she's like, get out of my fucking house, and so

1154
00:57:42,361 --> 00:57:45,041
Speaker 2: she's shouting. I said, right, hold on, hold on, I'm coming,

1155
00:57:45,081 --> 00:57:46,761
Speaker 2: I'm coming, yeah, and I was. I was about to

1156
00:57:46,801 --> 00:57:48,321
Speaker 2: run out of the petrol station, but I knew that

1157
00:57:48,361 --> 00:57:50,641
Speaker 2: I had to pay. I've paid. The geezers looking at

1158
00:57:50,641 --> 00:57:52,441
Speaker 2: me like, get off the phone. I'm like, you better

1159
00:57:52,481 --> 00:57:54,641
Speaker 2: fuck you know what I mean, Get off the phone,

1160
00:57:54,721 --> 00:57:57,161
Speaker 2: like I don't you know? So I'm going to kick

1161
00:57:57,161 --> 00:58:00,641
Speaker 2: off with this geezer. But on my head's like, I'm

1162
00:58:00,281 --> 00:58:03,241
Speaker 2: I'm busy, mate, I'm all over. I just found out

1163
00:58:03,281 --> 00:58:05,041
Speaker 2: my brother's been stabbed. But I know what I've got

1164
00:58:05,121 --> 00:58:07,561
Speaker 2: I do now. Yeah, but I've got to get to

1165
00:58:07,601 --> 00:58:09,641
Speaker 2: my mum to just make sure that this is true.

1166
00:58:10,681 --> 00:58:13,641
Speaker 2: As I've left the petrol station, I've rung my missus up.

1167
00:58:13,681 --> 00:58:16,721
Speaker 2: I told her I've rung I've rung Jamie up, my mate,

1168
00:58:17,001 --> 00:58:18,321
Speaker 2: And I said to him, do you know that down

1169
00:58:18,321 --> 00:58:19,841
Speaker 2: the bus flop earlier on? I said that was Dean.

1170
00:58:19,961 --> 00:58:23,681
Speaker 2: Dean's dead, he's been stabbed. He's like what I was like, yeah, so,

1171
00:58:24,121 --> 00:58:25,601
Speaker 2: but I don't know what I'm doing. I don't want

1172
00:58:25,601 --> 00:58:26,881
Speaker 2: to make these calls. But i'm making it. I don't

1173
00:58:26,881 --> 00:58:30,081
Speaker 2: know what's happening. I'm making calls when I need to

1174
00:58:30,081 --> 00:58:33,681
Speaker 2: get and I'm driving and I'm heading down the Murtaways.

1175
00:58:33,761 --> 00:58:35,561
Speaker 2: So from where I am to where my mum is

1176
00:58:35,601 --> 00:58:38,561
Speaker 2: about ten minutes drive, ten to fifty minute drive. And

1177
00:58:38,601 --> 00:58:40,961
Speaker 2: as I'm driving, I'm driving down this long road heading

1178
00:58:41,001 --> 00:58:45,921
Speaker 2: towards the Mertorway and I'm just screaming. I'm screaming. I've

1179
00:58:45,921 --> 00:58:47,921
Speaker 2: got the steering wheel, I'm gripping hold of it like

1180
00:58:48,241 --> 00:58:50,561
Speaker 2: I'm trying to snap the steering wheel off whilst I'm driving.

1181
00:58:50,721 --> 00:58:54,201
Speaker 2: I'm screaming from the pit of the stomach. Yeah, like

1182
00:58:54,961 --> 00:58:57,881
Speaker 2: just screaming. I get lightheaded and I think I'm going

1183
00:58:57,921 --> 00:59:02,761
Speaker 2: to pass out. Yeah, And I needed that scream to

1184
00:59:02,801 --> 00:59:05,321
Speaker 2: be able to just level myself out. Yeah, Becau, because

1185
00:59:05,361 --> 00:59:09,401
Speaker 2: You've got to remember, I'm dealing with emotions that I'm

1186
00:59:09,601 --> 00:59:14,681
Speaker 2: not being able to handle because I don't cry. And

1187
00:59:14,681 --> 00:59:16,921
Speaker 2: it's not that I don't cry, it's just that I

1188
00:59:16,961 --> 00:59:19,081
Speaker 2: can't really cry, do you know what I mean? But

1189
00:59:19,281 --> 00:59:24,081
Speaker 2: I want to, so I scream, but I'm I'm skipped too,

1190
00:59:24,121 --> 00:59:27,961
Speaker 2: So I'm I'm going through many different scenarios in my

1191
00:59:28,001 --> 00:59:29,601
Speaker 2: head of what I need to do, but I'm still

1192
00:59:29,641 --> 00:59:33,881
Speaker 2: unsure whether it's true. So I drive to my mum's.

1193
00:59:34,001 --> 00:59:37,401
Speaker 2: I get there, there's no police cars outside, there's nothing.

1194
00:59:37,761 --> 00:59:41,161
Speaker 2: So I'm like, is this my head playing games with me?

1195
00:59:41,201 --> 00:59:45,601
Speaker 2: It was like, is my skits playing up? Yeah? And

1196
00:59:45,641 --> 00:59:47,161
Speaker 2: I go into the house. And as I get into

1197
00:59:47,201 --> 00:59:48,561
Speaker 2: the house, I can I see it. I can hear

1198
00:59:48,601 --> 00:59:51,761
Speaker 2: the screaming houses being smashed to pieces, like my mum

1199
00:59:51,841 --> 00:59:54,401
Speaker 2: has gone to town. She's smashed up her whole house.

1200
00:59:54,841 --> 00:59:57,041
Speaker 2: There's two coppers standing in there, a man and a woman,

1201
00:59:57,161 --> 00:59:59,801
Speaker 2: and they are looking scared. They're like standing there because

1202
00:59:59,921 --> 01:00:02,081
Speaker 2: they're waiting for me to turn up. Well, one of

1203
01:00:02,121 --> 01:00:04,041
Speaker 2: the coppers that was there is a lady called Pauling.

1204
01:00:04,121 --> 01:00:05,881
Speaker 2: She's a lovely woman. Her and her husband used to

1205
01:00:05,961 --> 01:00:08,081
Speaker 2: nick me and my brother all the time, so they

1206
01:00:08,081 --> 01:00:12,761
Speaker 2: already know, yeah, that what we are. Like, Yeah, and

1207
01:00:12,801 --> 01:00:16,161
Speaker 2: I've gone in there and they've just they've s but

1208
01:00:16,241 --> 01:00:18,921
Speaker 2: they've got fear the fit. I can see they were scared. Yeah,

1209
01:00:18,961 --> 01:00:22,201
Speaker 2: and I've turned up and I've gone, where's my mum?

1210
01:00:22,721 --> 01:00:24,641
Speaker 2: They go, She's in there, but I already know where

1211
01:00:24,641 --> 01:00:27,481
Speaker 2: she is because I can hear her screaming yeah, And

1212
01:00:27,561 --> 01:00:30,721
Speaker 2: I said, is it true? And they're looking at me

1213
01:00:30,761 --> 01:00:33,041
Speaker 2: and they just didn't. They didn't, they didn't open their mouth.

1214
01:00:33,041 --> 01:00:36,081
Speaker 2: They just nodded. They was like, I said, how do

1215
01:00:36,161 --> 01:00:39,041
Speaker 2: you know? And then he didn't want to say nothing.

1216
01:00:39,081 --> 01:00:41,081
Speaker 2: I think she told him don't say nothing because he

1217
01:00:41,121 --> 01:00:45,961
Speaker 2: will attack you. And she she said, Paul, I've known

1218
01:00:46,001 --> 01:00:49,641
Speaker 2: you and your brother for a long time. It's definitely

1219
01:00:49,641 --> 01:00:52,921
Speaker 2: your brother. I went, how did it happen? She went,

1220
01:00:53,121 --> 01:00:55,761
Speaker 2: he's been stabbed. I said, have you got who it

1221
01:00:55,841 --> 01:00:59,761
Speaker 2: is yet? She said not yet. I said, I'll have

1222
01:00:59,841 --> 01:01:05,801
Speaker 2: them by tomorrow and I said, Mom, I said, I'm going.

1223
01:01:06,401 --> 01:01:08,841
Speaker 2: She come down. My mum said, I looked me in

1224
01:01:08,881 --> 01:01:18,841
Speaker 2: the eyes and she said kill them. And my sisters

1225
01:01:18,921 --> 01:01:22,761
Speaker 2: come out and they said make sure you get them.

1226
01:01:23,001 --> 01:01:26,281
Speaker 2: And I knew that what I had to do. So

1227
01:01:27,361 --> 01:01:30,001
Speaker 2: I left the house and I went on a seven

1228
01:01:30,081 --> 01:01:39,081
Speaker 2: day man hunt to find these people. And as much

1229
01:01:39,121 --> 01:01:41,641
Speaker 2: as I was on the street, and as much as

1230
01:01:41,641 --> 01:01:43,521
Speaker 2: I had people around me that was game and they

1231
01:01:43,561 --> 01:01:50,761
Speaker 2: were able, there was nothing. There was nobody. I was

1232
01:01:50,761 --> 01:01:53,361
Speaker 2: on my own, I was on my ones. There was

1233
01:01:53,441 --> 01:01:56,121
Speaker 2: nobody for every bad man that I had around me

1234
01:01:56,241 --> 01:01:59,241
Speaker 2: for every person that claimed that they were a somebody

1235
01:01:59,321 --> 01:02:02,041
Speaker 2: that they'd have my back no matter what. When you

1236
01:02:02,481 --> 01:02:06,281
Speaker 2: when you ask people to come and find four people

1237
01:02:06,361 --> 01:02:09,681
Speaker 2: to kill them, there is nobody made because they're not

1238
01:02:09,721 --> 01:02:11,521
Speaker 2: looking for someone that's in a pub that you can smack,

1239
01:02:11,521 --> 01:02:14,921
Speaker 2: and they won't smack you back because they'll pussy or whatever. Like.

1240
01:02:15,081 --> 01:02:19,001
Speaker 2: These people are killers and they've killed someone that can

1241
01:02:19,041 --> 01:02:21,921
Speaker 2: have it, you know. So the fear is there for

1242
01:02:21,961 --> 01:02:23,561
Speaker 2: a lot of people and no one coming with me.

1243
01:02:23,601 --> 01:02:25,441
Speaker 2: I'm on my own. I've gone looking for these people,

1244
01:02:25,481 --> 01:02:27,721
Speaker 2: and I was on a seventh down. Didn't sleep seven days,

1245
01:02:27,721 --> 01:02:33,761
Speaker 2: I didn't eat. I literally hunted these people, and one

1246
01:02:33,841 --> 01:02:36,801
Speaker 2: of them by the morning I found out who they were.

1247
01:02:37,081 --> 01:02:39,001
Speaker 2: By seven o'clock in the morning, I found out who

1248
01:02:39,001 --> 01:02:40,801
Speaker 2: they were, so I knew where I had to go.

1249
01:02:40,921 --> 01:02:43,761
Speaker 2: I went through every crack. Then I went through every

1250
01:02:43,881 --> 01:02:46,681
Speaker 2: I went for the drug line that was attached to this.

1251
01:02:47,401 --> 01:02:51,841
Speaker 2: I went after all of their shotters. I went after

1252
01:02:52,081 --> 01:02:56,801
Speaker 2: everybody that sold crack that was around that line, the

1253
01:02:56,841 --> 01:03:00,801
Speaker 2: county line. I targeted everybody, and there was no one

1254
01:03:00,841 --> 01:03:05,921
Speaker 2: that I didn't turn over, And you know I didn't.

1255
01:03:05,961 --> 01:03:08,721
Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't take I didn't. I wasn't there

1256
01:03:08,761 --> 01:03:10,281
Speaker 2: to rob him. I wasn't there for nothing that. I

1257
01:03:10,321 --> 01:03:12,041
Speaker 2: was there for information, That's all I wanted.

1258
01:03:12,681 --> 01:03:14,281
Speaker 1: What was that? What was that? What was the reason

1259
01:03:14,321 --> 01:03:15,441
Speaker 1: why they stabbed your brother?

1260
01:03:17,401 --> 01:03:21,241
Speaker 2: So in court and it was proven, they said that

1261
01:03:21,281 --> 01:03:25,081
Speaker 2: my brother was there to rob him. Yeah, but a

1262
01:03:25,161 --> 01:03:28,561
Speaker 2: guy there's a guy in where my mum and that

1263
01:03:28,761 --> 01:03:30,561
Speaker 2: lives in Felix though that my brother used to get

1264
01:03:30,681 --> 01:03:34,921
Speaker 2: stuff from all time, and he'd been turned over by

1265
01:03:34,921 --> 01:03:36,681
Speaker 2: the police and had all these stuff took off of him.

1266
01:03:37,201 --> 01:03:39,841
Speaker 2: So there was nothing my brother couldn't get it from him.

1267
01:03:39,841 --> 01:03:42,161
Speaker 2: So my brother had to go to another line to

1268
01:03:42,201 --> 01:03:43,881
Speaker 2: go and get So he was a new face to

1269
01:03:43,921 --> 01:03:48,161
Speaker 2: a new line. And there's two rival gangs in this town.

1270
01:03:48,481 --> 01:03:55,241
Speaker 2: There's J Block and Nino. Yeah, and the gang J

1271
01:03:55,441 --> 01:04:00,921
Speaker 2: Block robbed this drug line twice and they fought. They

1272
01:04:00,961 --> 01:04:02,801
Speaker 2: had a heads up that they were coming back to

1273
01:04:02,881 --> 01:04:07,481
Speaker 2: rob him again that day. So because my brother was

1274
01:04:07,521 --> 01:04:10,281
Speaker 2: a new face, they thought that he was the decoy

1275
01:04:10,521 --> 01:04:14,481
Speaker 2: for the gang to rob him. So they come out

1276
01:04:14,521 --> 01:04:16,761
Speaker 2: to teach the gang a lesson and it wasn't. It

1277
01:04:16,801 --> 01:04:19,961
Speaker 2: was my brother and my brother got in a fight

1278
01:04:20,001 --> 01:04:23,601
Speaker 2: with the four three guys, and there was one guy

1279
01:04:23,641 --> 01:04:26,521
Speaker 2: on the phone and three guys on foot, and the

1280
01:04:26,561 --> 01:04:28,561
Speaker 2: guy on the phone was telling them what to do.

1281
01:04:29,321 --> 01:04:31,681
Speaker 2: And my brother had a fight with the three guys

1282
01:04:32,801 --> 01:04:35,401
Speaker 2: and they were on the road on the path on

1283
01:04:35,481 --> 01:04:40,761
Speaker 2: the road like zig zagon across the road. And from

1284
01:04:40,921 --> 01:04:44,921
Speaker 2: what was told by witnesses, my brother was winning the fight,

1285
01:04:45,721 --> 01:04:50,161
Speaker 2: but he was backing off, jumping forward, striking, backing off,

1286
01:04:50,241 --> 01:04:52,961
Speaker 2: jumping forward, And that's how he was doing it, because,

1287
01:04:53,041 --> 01:04:55,161
Speaker 2: like I say, my brother could actually have a rally.

1288
01:04:55,521 --> 01:04:58,321
Speaker 2: He was a really good fighter. He tripped on the

1289
01:04:58,361 --> 01:05:01,401
Speaker 2: curb and went down, and when he went down, one

1290
01:05:01,441 --> 01:05:03,401
Speaker 2: of the people come through the middle of him stabbed

1291
01:05:03,441 --> 01:05:04,641
Speaker 2: him whist he was on the floor, and then they

1292
01:05:04,641 --> 01:05:10,121
Speaker 2: all ran ou My brother got up and went to

1293
01:05:10,201 --> 01:05:12,561
Speaker 2: walk off. There was a guy who was a witness

1294
01:05:12,601 --> 01:05:15,641
Speaker 2: there in court wound down the window and said, you're

1295
01:05:15,721 --> 01:05:17,681
Speaker 2: right mate. My brother stuck his thumb up like he

1296
01:05:17,721 --> 01:05:21,401
Speaker 2: always does. Yeah. Good, and then he went down to

1297
01:05:21,441 --> 01:05:26,441
Speaker 2: the floor and and it died. That's me.

1298
01:05:27,561 --> 01:05:34,961
Speaker 1: Yeah, what So what happened? Did you find them or

1299
01:05:34,961 --> 01:05:36,121
Speaker 1: did the cops find them first?

1300
01:05:36,881 --> 01:05:44,081
Speaker 2: So one of them was found and he ended up

1301
01:05:44,321 --> 01:05:51,281
Speaker 2: getting stabbed twice with his own knife. I'm not sure

1302
01:05:51,361 --> 01:05:57,281
Speaker 2: who did that, but because the person was never found

1303
01:05:58,881 --> 01:06:04,161
Speaker 2: who did that to him? But he survived, and he survived,

1304
01:06:05,161 --> 01:06:07,201
Speaker 2: and you know what, you wouldn't even believe it, mate,

1305
01:06:07,321 --> 01:06:08,841
Speaker 2: he looked at him, you wouldn't even think, how the

1306
01:06:08,881 --> 01:06:10,961
Speaker 2: hell did you survive? Because he was just a bone

1307
01:06:11,001 --> 01:06:13,281
Speaker 2: of a man, you know, he was like an old

1308
01:06:13,401 --> 01:06:17,721
Speaker 2: bone of a man. But I found out that he'd

1309
01:06:17,801 --> 01:06:21,281
Speaker 2: been stabbed and that he'd been took to the hospital,

1310
01:06:21,281 --> 01:06:22,881
Speaker 2: and I went up. I went to the hospital to

1311
01:06:23,601 --> 01:06:28,001
Speaker 2: finish the job that somebody else said, who they never

1312
01:06:28,081 --> 01:06:33,721
Speaker 2: found did in the first place. So I went up

1313
01:06:33,721 --> 01:06:35,761
Speaker 2: to the hospital to finish the job, and there was

1314
01:06:35,801 --> 01:06:39,521
Speaker 2: police everywhere, mate, like they'd send me up there. They

1315
01:06:39,641 --> 01:06:41,601
Speaker 2: rushed me out of the hospital. They said, what are

1316
01:06:41,641 --> 01:06:43,401
Speaker 2: you doing up here? I said, oh, come up to

1317
01:06:43,441 --> 01:06:45,881
Speaker 2: pick my friend up from the hospital. And they said,

1318
01:06:46,241 --> 01:06:48,601
Speaker 2: you've come up to pick your friend. And I knew

1319
01:06:48,601 --> 01:06:51,001
Speaker 2: he was in a room there, and I've gone to

1320
01:06:51,041 --> 01:06:54,161
Speaker 2: go into the room and there was like the police

1321
01:06:54,161 --> 01:06:56,561
Speaker 2: were there. They rushed me out of the room. They said,

1322
01:06:56,841 --> 01:06:58,361
Speaker 2: what are you doing here? I said, I've come to

1323
01:06:58,361 --> 01:07:00,201
Speaker 2: pick up my friend and I said, is this not

1324
01:07:00,241 --> 01:07:02,041
Speaker 2: the staff room? They went, you know, this is not

1325
01:07:02,081 --> 01:07:04,401
Speaker 2: the staff room. And I was like, I said, who

1326
01:07:04,441 --> 01:07:07,361
Speaker 2: have you come to pick up? Honestly, I think my

1327
01:07:07,401 --> 01:07:10,161
Speaker 2: brother sent the gozer to us. A guy come walking

1328
01:07:10,201 --> 01:07:12,041
Speaker 2: down and goes, right, Paul, you're right. I said, this

1329
01:07:12,081 --> 01:07:13,761
Speaker 2: is who I've come to pick up, haven't I come

1330
01:07:13,801 --> 01:07:15,721
Speaker 2: to pick you up? And I'm looking at him thinking,

1331
01:07:15,801 --> 01:07:19,081
Speaker 2: please just say yes, and he said yeah, and I

1332
01:07:19,081 --> 01:07:21,041
Speaker 2: said come and then let's go. And they were like,

1333
01:07:21,721 --> 01:07:23,481
Speaker 2: make sure you leave the ground. So I was like,

1334
01:07:23,601 --> 01:07:25,361
Speaker 2: of course, I'm leaving the grounds. I'm taking him home.

1335
01:07:25,761 --> 01:07:27,681
Speaker 2: And I took him and he said, Paul, I'm at work.

1336
01:07:27,761 --> 01:07:29,321
Speaker 2: You can't take me. And I was like, you're coming

1337
01:07:29,361 --> 01:07:32,641
Speaker 2: with me. So I kidnapped this geezer. I didn't kidnap him.

1338
01:07:32,681 --> 01:07:36,281
Speaker 2: I took him with me. Yeah, I've took him with me.

1339
01:07:36,481 --> 01:07:38,721
Speaker 2: He's come with me off his own free wheel. He's

1340
01:07:38,721 --> 01:07:40,521
Speaker 2: got in the car. We've gone around the back of

1341
01:07:40,521 --> 01:07:42,241
Speaker 2: the hospital. I've dropped him off at the back of

1342
01:07:42,241 --> 01:07:43,841
Speaker 2: the hospital and he's gone back to work and I've

1343
01:07:43,841 --> 01:07:46,601
Speaker 2: gone off. You know, but I really wanted him. I

1344
01:07:46,641 --> 01:07:49,321
Speaker 2: really wanted him. I'd gone up to sleep his throat mate,

1345
01:07:49,561 --> 01:07:51,041
Speaker 2: and I would have done as well.

1346
01:07:52,201 --> 01:07:54,201
Speaker 1: But so that's they don't get they got life.

1347
01:07:54,281 --> 01:07:58,281
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So they got him, and then they're the

1348
01:07:58,361 --> 01:08:01,201
Speaker 2: three others in tow. They ended up coming in. So

1349
01:08:01,281 --> 01:08:03,481
Speaker 2: I guess one said the other one and you know,

1350
01:08:03,961 --> 01:08:06,481
Speaker 2: you know we're street of the code is not there

1351
01:08:06,481 --> 01:08:08,561
Speaker 2: when you're looking at a loss and saw murder, I guess.

1352
01:08:08,801 --> 01:08:11,241
Speaker 2: So they all grass each other up and they ended

1353
01:08:11,321 --> 01:08:12,801
Speaker 2: up getting caught, all four of them, and I never

1354
01:08:12,801 --> 01:08:14,681
Speaker 2: got a chance to get And there was another one.

1355
01:08:14,921 --> 01:08:17,281
Speaker 2: There was two people from my town. There was two

1356
01:08:17,281 --> 01:08:19,601
Speaker 2: people from London. The two people from London went back

1357
01:08:19,601 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 2: to London. The two people from my town I hunted them.

1358
01:08:24,001 --> 01:08:26,841
Speaker 2: The second person after that was a guy who was

1359
01:08:26,881 --> 01:08:29,561
Speaker 2: on the phone saying the orders from the guy from

1360
01:08:29,561 --> 01:08:32,921
Speaker 2: London to the others to do what they got to do.

1361
01:08:33,601 --> 01:08:35,760
Speaker 2: And I got his address. I went to his house.

1362
01:08:36,041 --> 01:08:38,161
Speaker 2: I tried kicking the door in, it ain't coming off.

1363
01:08:38,201 --> 01:08:40,401
Speaker 2: He lived in a flapstairs. There was a driveway downstairs

1364
01:08:40,441 --> 01:08:43,081
Speaker 2: with a white van and they were tinted windows. The

1365
01:08:43,121 --> 01:08:45,601
Speaker 2: geezer knew I was coming, and he knew that I

1366
01:08:45,641 --> 01:08:47,801
Speaker 2: was hunting them, and he had nowhere to go and

1367
01:08:47,841 --> 01:08:50,041
Speaker 2: he ended up moving from his flat into his van

1368
01:08:50,441 --> 01:08:52,561
Speaker 2: that was on the driveway, and I was standing on

1369
01:08:52,601 --> 01:08:55,841
Speaker 2: the driveway looking in the tinted windows. So what I've

1370
01:08:55,841 --> 01:08:58,001
Speaker 2: done is I turned my back to the street, so

1371
01:08:58,321 --> 01:09:00,121
Speaker 2: it allowed them to come out of the house to

1372
01:09:00,121 --> 01:09:02,361
Speaker 2: get me from behind, but I was still seeing what

1373
01:09:02,481 --> 01:09:05,001
Speaker 2: was behind me, so I used the windows. But little

1374
01:09:05,121 --> 01:09:06,721
Speaker 2: did I know whist I'm on the phone and you

1375
01:09:06,801 --> 01:09:08,601
Speaker 2: fucking told me that he was going to be here.

1376
01:09:08,721 --> 01:09:10,521
Speaker 2: I'm here, Where is he? And they go, poor, I

1377
01:09:10,561 --> 01:09:12,361
Speaker 2: swear to you, he's there. He's there. He hasn't left

1378
01:09:12,361 --> 01:09:14,841
Speaker 2: the house. Yeah he was. He was on the other

1379
01:09:14,881 --> 01:09:18,361
Speaker 2: side of the window. He was in the van. He

1380
01:09:18,401 --> 01:09:20,361
Speaker 2: moved into the van. He was literally in front of me.

1381
01:09:22,121 --> 01:09:23,881
Speaker 2: And I didn't know that until we were in court.

1382
01:09:25,481 --> 01:09:28,121
Speaker 2: Fucking hell, I didn't know it until we were in court.

1383
01:09:28,361 --> 01:09:29,561
Speaker 2: If I had known it, I would have got in

1384
01:09:29,641 --> 01:09:31,161
Speaker 2: the van. He would have been I would have been

1385
01:09:31,201 --> 01:09:34,561
Speaker 2: able to I would have ruined him. But you know,

1386
01:09:34,801 --> 01:09:38,361
Speaker 2: I'm not a murderer. I'm not an ard man, I'm

1387
01:09:38,401 --> 01:09:41,921
Speaker 2: not a psycho. I'm just a guy that had a

1388
01:09:41,921 --> 01:09:43,841
Speaker 2: family member that was killed, and I would have done

1389
01:09:43,881 --> 01:09:46,081
Speaker 2: anything to make it right. Do you know what I mean?

1390
01:09:47,121 --> 01:09:50,001
Speaker 2: You know, and any but anybody that loses a sibling

1391
01:09:50,001 --> 01:09:51,481
Speaker 2: would have done the same thing. You don't have to

1392
01:09:51,521 --> 01:09:53,001
Speaker 2: be hard to do what I was. I went off

1393
01:09:53,041 --> 01:09:54,401
Speaker 2: to do what what?

1394
01:09:54,641 --> 01:09:58,241
Speaker 1: What goes through your mind now knowing that the they're

1395
01:09:58,321 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 1: in jail and doing life. Yeah, they've taken your brother.

1396
01:10:04,001 --> 01:10:07,241
Speaker 2: Listen. I I've been given a task from my family

1397
01:10:07,361 --> 01:10:11,361
Speaker 2: that I failed, and I had so much like Listen,

1398
01:10:11,441 --> 01:10:14,161
Speaker 2: I had so much rage in me that I wanted

1399
01:10:14,161 --> 01:10:17,241
Speaker 2: these people that took what I believed was my hero,

1400
01:10:17,401 --> 01:10:20,081
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Away from me like

1401
01:10:20,561 --> 01:10:23,281
Speaker 2: he was because I never done My brother would have

1402
01:10:23,281 --> 01:10:26,281
Speaker 2: done it. My brother would have because that drug world

1403
01:10:26,361 --> 01:10:28,641
Speaker 2: is not my world. So I didn't know where to go,

1404
01:10:28,761 --> 01:10:30,601
Speaker 2: so I was slow on the uptake. I had to

1405
01:10:30,641 --> 01:10:33,281
Speaker 2: find people to feed the information to get me to

1406
01:10:33,281 --> 01:10:36,241
Speaker 2: where I needed to be. Where my brother is of

1407
01:10:36,241 --> 01:10:38,521
Speaker 2: that world, he would have known exactly where to go,

1408
01:10:38,641 --> 01:10:40,521
Speaker 2: and he would have done what I failed to do

1409
01:10:41,041 --> 01:10:44,201
Speaker 2: for me. You know That's how I thought at the time.

1410
01:10:44,361 --> 01:10:46,641
Speaker 2: You got to remember, I'm built up. I'm so built

1411
01:10:46,721 --> 01:10:48,961
Speaker 2: up that I'm looking for for murderers and I'm going

1412
01:10:49,001 --> 01:10:51,041
Speaker 2: to kill them. I am going to kill these geezes

1413
01:10:51,041 --> 01:10:53,041
Speaker 2: and I'm going to make I'm going to make them suffer.

1414
01:10:53,441 --> 01:10:56,121
Speaker 2: I had this in me, this rage I'm dealing with,

1415
01:10:56,361 --> 01:10:58,680
Speaker 2: like I say, skits and stuff. So I'm already built

1416
01:10:58,761 --> 01:11:03,961
Speaker 2: up and I'm made to feel that way automatically genetically. Yeah,

1417
01:11:04,001 --> 01:11:07,321
Speaker 2: so I'm and when people take that away from you

1418
01:11:07,401 --> 01:11:09,001
Speaker 2: and you've got no way of letting that out. The

1419
01:11:09,041 --> 01:11:11,041
Speaker 2: only way I could let that go and let that

1420
01:11:11,081 --> 01:11:14,361
Speaker 2: be free, it's by killing these people. And that's what

1421
01:11:14,361 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 2: I wanted.

1422
01:11:15,081 --> 01:11:17,641
Speaker 1: Do you still have that rage now for the four

1423
01:11:17,681 --> 01:11:21,921
Speaker 1: this or have you come to I wouldn't say peace

1424
01:11:21,961 --> 01:11:24,401
Speaker 1: with it, but are you just came Like camera is

1425
01:11:24,401 --> 01:11:25,680
Speaker 1: a big thing. But I think is.

1426
01:11:27,201 --> 01:11:30,321
Speaker 2: I've learned manifestation when it comes to com I've learned manifestation.

1427
01:11:30,441 --> 01:11:32,521
Speaker 2: Like right now, they're in jail and there's nothing I

1428
01:11:32,561 --> 01:11:35,161
Speaker 2: can do, So I'm not at peace, but I'm at

1429
01:11:35,201 --> 01:11:37,121
Speaker 2: a level where I know that one day they're going

1430
01:11:37,161 --> 01:11:38,720
Speaker 2: to come out, and I know when they come out

1431
01:11:39,601 --> 01:11:43,121
Speaker 2: that I don't know how. I don't know how I'm

1432
01:11:43,121 --> 01:11:45,081
Speaker 2: going to feel when they come out. I don't know

1433
01:11:45,121 --> 01:11:46,961
Speaker 2: whether I know two of them are probably die in

1434
01:11:47,001 --> 01:11:49,241
Speaker 2: jail because they're old they'll be in their seventies when

1435
01:11:49,241 --> 01:11:52,361
Speaker 2: they get released, so they're probably going to die. And

1436
01:11:52,401 --> 01:11:54,201
Speaker 2: the other two are from London, but I'll probably never

1437
01:11:54,281 --> 01:11:56,720
Speaker 2: even bump into them. But if I did bump into them,

1438
01:11:56,801 --> 01:12:00,241
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I don't know, don't I don't

1439
01:12:00,241 --> 01:12:03,441
Speaker 2: think any amount of recovery or space, the freedom that

1440
01:12:03,521 --> 01:12:06,161
Speaker 2: I get with learning how to live with myself, would

1441
01:12:06,161 --> 01:12:09,321
Speaker 2: I probably be able to walk away from someone that

1442
01:12:09,401 --> 01:12:11,241
Speaker 2: took my brother.

1443
01:12:11,361 --> 01:12:12,801
Speaker 1: Have you ever tried to go to the jail where

1444
01:12:12,841 --> 01:12:13,241
Speaker 1: they are.

1445
01:12:14,601 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 2: They won't let me. They won't let me because there

1446
01:12:18,681 --> 01:12:20,321
Speaker 2: was that lord that was brought in where you can

1447
01:12:20,321 --> 01:12:24,601
Speaker 2: come face to face with your video. Yeah, And I've

1448
01:12:24,601 --> 01:12:27,001
Speaker 2: asked about it. I've asked about it because I want

1449
01:12:27,001 --> 01:12:29,961
Speaker 2: to know why. I want to know the truth. I

1450
01:12:29,961 --> 01:12:32,361
Speaker 2: want to know. I want to know how they're thinking. Now.

1451
01:12:32,401 --> 01:12:33,921
Speaker 2: Do they regret it? That's what I want to know.

1452
01:12:35,481 --> 01:12:38,041
Speaker 2: You know, doing the podcast myself on my own channel,

1453
01:12:38,281 --> 01:12:40,601
Speaker 2: I needed a It was therapy for me, you know,

1454
01:12:41,361 --> 01:12:43,641
Speaker 2: it was therapy for me. And hearing other people's stories,

1455
01:12:43,681 --> 01:12:48,201
Speaker 2: people that forgive and and you know Michael Emmett, he's

1456
01:12:48,241 --> 01:12:51,601
Speaker 2: he does Alpha Alpha God in prison. He does It's

1457
01:12:51,721 --> 01:12:54,681
Speaker 2: massive it's absolutely huge. And he says forgiveness is the

1458
01:12:54,761 --> 01:12:58,601
Speaker 2: cure to your soul, and he says, I need to

1459
01:12:58,641 --> 01:13:01,321
Speaker 2: forgive to be able to move on. I don't think

1460
01:13:01,361 --> 01:13:06,201
Speaker 2: I can. I really genuinely don't believe I can. So

1461
01:13:06,281 --> 01:13:07,921
Speaker 2: I guess I'll never move on from it. But I

1462
01:13:07,921 --> 01:13:11,481
Speaker 2: won't know, because you know if someone if you don't

1463
01:13:11,521 --> 01:13:13,561
Speaker 2: like someone and you never see them, they kind of

1464
01:13:13,561 --> 01:13:16,761
Speaker 2: go away. But when you see them, everything comes back.

1465
01:13:16,801 --> 01:13:18,961
Speaker 2: A bit like when I said when I was sixteen,

1466
01:13:19,041 --> 01:13:20,721
Speaker 2: that guy come back to me. I was ready for him,

1467
01:13:20,761 --> 01:13:23,001
Speaker 2: but when it comes back, it all come back. It's

1468
01:13:23,001 --> 01:13:26,561
Speaker 2: that feeling it. I won't know until I either they

1469
01:13:26,561 --> 01:13:34,401
Speaker 2: get released or I'll bump into them, but i'd imagine

1470
01:13:34,401 --> 01:13:36,441
Speaker 2: that they wouldn't be allowed anywhere near us in the

1471
01:13:36,481 --> 01:13:39,521
Speaker 2: family anyway. But if it's London, I got family in London,

1472
01:13:39,601 --> 01:13:41,481
Speaker 2: I'm sure I'll bump into them, and I don't know

1473
01:13:41,521 --> 01:13:43,601
Speaker 2: what it'll be. I'm going to be in my fifties

1474
01:13:43,601 --> 01:13:46,281
Speaker 2: at the time they'll come out anyway, like mid fifties,

1475
01:13:46,761 --> 01:13:48,761
Speaker 2: So I need to stay sharp, you know.

1476
01:13:50,881 --> 01:13:54,361
Speaker 1: That. But your brother's legacy lives on in your in

1477
01:13:54,401 --> 01:13:57,361
Speaker 1: your charity. Yeah, in the charity that you do and

1478
01:13:57,441 --> 01:14:01,001
Speaker 1: also that you did the is it THEE tell me

1479
01:14:01,041 --> 01:14:03,720
Speaker 1: about the bleak control kids that you got around.

1480
01:14:05,321 --> 01:14:08,641
Speaker 2: So I've done a lot of raising awareness in that

1481
01:14:09,481 --> 01:14:11,641
Speaker 2: the schools were a bit empty with letting us go

1482
01:14:11,681 --> 01:14:13,441
Speaker 2: in because they felt like if they'd let them in,

1483
01:14:13,481 --> 01:14:15,281
Speaker 2: then they'd be letting the parents know that there's a

1484
01:14:15,321 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 2: knife crime problem within that school, and the OFFSTED rating

1485
01:14:18,081 --> 01:14:20,401
Speaker 2: would stop them from being funded. So they're not they're

1486
01:14:20,441 --> 01:14:22,961
Speaker 2: not free on letting us raise awareness on knife crime.

1487
01:14:24,401 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 2: You know. So I'm anti I'm anti knife, anti weapon.

1488
01:14:28,041 --> 01:14:30,641
Speaker 2: Now do you know where before I lived and lived

1489
01:14:30,641 --> 01:14:32,441
Speaker 2: and died for it. But I've been on the other side,

1490
01:14:32,441 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 2: so I know, you know. So I had to figure

1491
01:14:35,761 --> 01:14:38,481
Speaker 2: out ways to try and raise awareness or what we're

1492
01:14:38,521 --> 01:14:43,201
Speaker 2: doing globally, not just within my town, like everywhere, because

1493
01:14:43,201 --> 01:14:44,481
Speaker 2: I don't want to want to field it the way

1494
01:14:44,481 --> 01:14:47,481
Speaker 2: that I feel because I'm chewed up, you know. So

1495
01:14:48,321 --> 01:14:51,001
Speaker 2: we started doing charity events and we were going out

1496
01:14:51,001 --> 01:14:55,161
Speaker 2: to car events and basketball events, anything that we could

1497
01:14:55,241 --> 01:14:57,761
Speaker 2: do to raise awareness. We've got like the all the

1498
01:14:57,841 --> 01:15:00,201
Speaker 2: marquee that says stop in our crime, the leaflets we've

1499
01:15:00,241 --> 01:15:02,401
Speaker 2: done our own leaflets. The police have took them in.

1500
01:15:02,441 --> 01:15:05,241
Speaker 2: They love it all, they love what we do. But

1501
01:15:05,401 --> 01:15:08,801
Speaker 2: the a few more people got stabbed in our town,

1502
01:15:08,961 --> 01:15:11,121
Speaker 2: a couple of kids, a couple of adults, and they died.

1503
01:15:11,721 --> 01:15:14,801
Speaker 2: But if there would have been something there that would

1504
01:15:14,801 --> 01:15:17,641
Speaker 2: have helped them and they probably some of them would

1505
01:15:17,641 --> 01:15:19,721
Speaker 2: probably be alive. Maybe my brother would be alive. I

1506
01:15:19,761 --> 01:15:22,641
Speaker 2: don't know. We don't know because it's like there wasn't

1507
01:15:22,641 --> 01:15:23,881
Speaker 2: anything there is.

1508
01:15:23,921 --> 01:15:26,321
Speaker 1: There is the knife crime that that bad still in England,

1509
01:15:26,441 --> 01:15:28,241
Speaker 1: is it? Yeah?

1510
01:15:28,481 --> 01:15:31,721
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the chosen now. If people are honest for

1511
01:15:31,761 --> 01:15:35,961
Speaker 2: themselves here, if people are honest with themselves were the

1512
01:15:36,081 --> 01:15:40,801
Speaker 2: younger generation are a generation that cannot fight, yeah, true's

1513
01:15:41,521 --> 01:15:45,801
Speaker 2: oh my god, they have got balls. Yeah, they've got

1514
01:15:45,841 --> 01:15:48,601
Speaker 2: no problems with taking your life. Yeah, but they can't

1515
01:15:48,601 --> 01:15:50,521
Speaker 2: do it physically, so they have to do it with

1516
01:15:50,681 --> 01:15:53,121
Speaker 2: at all. They will stab you before they'll punch up,

1517
01:15:53,521 --> 01:15:55,121
Speaker 2: because if they punch it, they know they get hit

1518
01:15:55,161 --> 01:15:57,361
Speaker 2: back and they can't take it. Yeah. I don't know.

1519
01:15:57,361 --> 01:15:58,641
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is with them. I don't know.

1520
01:15:58,681 --> 01:16:00,881
Speaker 2: I don't get it. Like you can punch someone and

1521
01:16:00,921 --> 01:16:02,961
Speaker 2: you just go back and punch them again, but you're alive.

1522
01:16:03,081 --> 01:16:07,321
Speaker 2: You can live. You're free, you're out. But now someone

1523
01:16:07,401 --> 01:16:10,001
Speaker 2: to stab you with an eighteen inch twenty inch knife

1524
01:16:10,081 --> 01:16:12,241
Speaker 2: before they do even punch or slap you around the face.

1525
01:16:13,081 --> 01:16:17,121
Speaker 2: It's mental. They cannot fight, but they have more balls.

1526
01:16:18,041 --> 01:16:21,521
Speaker 2: That's any gary thing. That's very true, bro, that's very true.

1527
01:16:21,801 --> 01:16:24,761
Speaker 2: That's where it's like over too. Yeah, they got they

1528
01:16:24,801 --> 01:16:26,720
Speaker 2: got more balls than what we had when we were younger.

1529
01:16:27,041 --> 01:16:30,721
Speaker 2: But we had no fear like they. We would know

1530
01:16:30,761 --> 01:16:32,081
Speaker 2: that if we was going to stab here, there's a

1531
01:16:32,081 --> 01:16:34,841
Speaker 2: possibility that you'll die. Yeah, but if we had a

1532
01:16:34,881 --> 01:16:38,961
Speaker 2: punch up, the reputation lives greater, stronger because you're out,

1533
01:16:39,081 --> 01:16:42,281
Speaker 2: you're you know, you're you're out, you're free, you're alive.

1534
01:16:42,881 --> 01:16:45,641
Speaker 2: Where if you stab someone get reputation, Oh you're a murderer,

1535
01:16:45,641 --> 01:16:48,121
Speaker 2: but you're in jail, no one out here. You're forgotten

1536
01:16:48,361 --> 01:16:49,801
Speaker 2: and you won't even be allowed to come back here

1537
01:16:49,841 --> 01:16:54,521
Speaker 2: to live that That reputation anywhay, just pointless.

1538
01:16:55,361 --> 01:16:57,961
Speaker 1: It'll never change, bro. It's because the generation and the

1539
01:16:57,961 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 1: generation just gets worse and worse and worse.

1540
01:17:00,921 --> 01:17:04,321
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we are a product of our environment, and

1541
01:17:04,401 --> 01:17:07,161
Speaker 2: we led the path for this to happen. Do you

1542
01:17:07,201 --> 01:17:10,001
Speaker 2: know what I mean we were we was the first,

1543
01:17:10,001 --> 01:17:11,961
Speaker 2: and then the people before us were the first, and

1544
01:17:12,361 --> 01:17:15,481
Speaker 2: we just get bread more crazier because you know, we're

1545
01:17:15,561 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 2: we're a product. This is what we've done to our environment.

1546
01:17:18,001 --> 01:17:19,521
Speaker 2: And that's what I mean. I took so much away

1547
01:17:19,521 --> 01:17:23,041
Speaker 2: from my environment and where I live that now I

1548
01:17:23,201 --> 01:17:27,441
Speaker 2: just give back and is by far greater rewarding now

1549
01:17:27,481 --> 01:17:31,121
Speaker 2: than what itever has been when I was a lunatic.

1550
01:17:32,121 --> 01:17:32,321
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1551
01:17:32,321 --> 01:17:34,161
Speaker 1: Have you got a lot of support for your charity

1552
01:17:34,401 --> 01:17:34,761
Speaker 1: over there?

1553
01:17:35,041 --> 01:17:40,641
Speaker 2: That's absolutely not financially not financially from you know, the

1554
01:17:40,681 --> 01:17:43,081
Speaker 2: peers that have got endless amounts of money that they

1555
01:17:43,081 --> 01:17:45,961
Speaker 2: can give us. The government can give us money. They don't.

1556
01:17:46,001 --> 01:17:47,680
Speaker 2: They don't. They don't give us no money. They don't

1557
01:17:47,681 --> 01:17:50,321
Speaker 2: give us no money because we're raising awareness that there's

1558
01:17:50,361 --> 01:17:52,761
Speaker 2: a problem within the town rather than getting on top

1559
01:17:52,801 --> 01:17:55,881
Speaker 2: of it and having a solution or with the problem.

1560
01:17:56,881 --> 01:17:59,081
Speaker 2: It's not. So what we do is we private fund

1561
01:17:59,361 --> 01:18:02,001
Speaker 2: and we do everything we can. We've got a lady

1562
01:18:02,001 --> 01:18:04,241
Speaker 2: in the studio that works for us called Amy. She

1563
01:18:04,321 --> 01:18:08,361
Speaker 2: does charity where she does tattoos, raise money. We go

1564
01:18:08,481 --> 01:18:14,720
Speaker 2: out and we ask companies, small businesses to get involved.

1565
01:18:14,761 --> 01:18:17,161
Speaker 2: Everyone's involved because people have had enough. Now, people have

1566
01:18:17,201 --> 01:18:19,081
Speaker 2: got kids that are gain to jail. They're not even

1567
01:18:19,081 --> 01:18:21,361
Speaker 2: having a sixteenth birthday out here. They're either dead or

1568
01:18:21,401 --> 01:18:24,481
Speaker 2: they're in jail. You know. Can you imagine celebrating your sixteenth,

1569
01:18:24,641 --> 01:18:28,680
Speaker 2: your sixteenth birthday, or your child's sixteenth birthday cemetery. Yeah,

1570
01:18:29,921 --> 01:18:32,201
Speaker 2: you know, I imagine that. So people have had enough

1571
01:18:32,241 --> 01:18:33,961
Speaker 2: and they're getting involved with us, and they see that

1572
01:18:34,001 --> 01:18:36,241
Speaker 2: we're doing. I thought we was only going to raise them.

1573
01:18:36,761 --> 01:18:39,921
Speaker 2: We managed to buy free kicks ourselves. We bought three

1574
01:18:39,961 --> 01:18:46,041
Speaker 2: kits ourselves. We got them up and the our town

1575
01:18:46,441 --> 01:18:50,401
Speaker 2: went mental. They couldn't believe, and they all jumped on board.

1576
01:18:50,401 --> 01:18:53,441
Speaker 2: They absolutely was like, thank you so much. You know,

1577
01:18:53,681 --> 01:18:56,121
Speaker 2: even the gangs, even the gangs they come across us,

1578
01:18:56,121 --> 01:18:57,921
Speaker 2: So thanks for what you're doing because I know I'm

1579
01:18:57,921 --> 01:19:01,641
Speaker 2: going to need that. The kids know they're thanking the

1580
01:19:01,681 --> 01:19:03,441
Speaker 2: same thank you because they know that they're going to

1581
01:19:03,481 --> 01:19:05,601
Speaker 2: need it. We put a kit in every re estate

1582
01:19:06,641 --> 01:19:09,321
Speaker 2: where all the kids knock around at the shops. We've

1583
01:19:09,361 --> 01:19:12,281
Speaker 2: got thirty three kits out so far, and we've got

1584
01:19:12,361 --> 01:19:16,720
Speaker 2: what's there another ten. We've got another nine up here

1585
01:19:16,761 --> 01:19:20,281
Speaker 2: ready to go out. You know, we're secured Ipswich. We

1586
01:19:20,441 --> 01:19:23,521
Speaker 2: secured the couple of towns next to us, and the

1587
01:19:23,601 --> 01:19:26,881
Speaker 2: legacy is becoming stronger. The awareness is getting better and

1588
01:19:26,921 --> 01:19:29,281
Speaker 2: people are recognizing on what we're doing. I get more.

1589
01:19:29,321 --> 01:19:32,001
Speaker 2: I get more recognized now for the stuff that we're

1590
01:19:32,001 --> 01:19:35,121
Speaker 2: doing with the charity and the emergency BLEA control kits

1591
01:19:35,121 --> 01:19:37,681
Speaker 2: and than I do for the business that I have

1592
01:19:37,761 --> 01:19:40,281
Speaker 2: in the town. He used to be the other way around,

1593
01:19:40,841 --> 01:19:42,921
Speaker 2: but I just didn't. I didn't want to be, Oh,

1594
01:19:43,001 --> 01:19:45,441
Speaker 2: you're that guy whose brother was stabbed. I didn't want

1595
01:19:45,441 --> 01:19:47,241
Speaker 2: my brother to be your brother was the one that

1596
01:19:47,321 --> 01:19:50,601
Speaker 2: died because he got stabbed. You know. I wanted it

1597
01:19:50,641 --> 01:19:53,561
Speaker 2: to be like you see space, you see what we're doing.

1598
01:19:53,881 --> 01:19:56,201
Speaker 2: I wanted him to be back to what I remember

1599
01:19:56,321 --> 01:19:57,841
Speaker 2: is in when we were a kid and it was

1600
01:19:58,481 --> 01:20:03,241
Speaker 2: a legend, and he read. I regret meeting the women

1601
01:20:03,481 --> 01:20:09,961
Speaker 2: that I've been with, and I mean that as well

1602
01:20:10,081 --> 01:20:14,720
Speaker 2: with all my heart, like seriously, other than the women's

1603
01:20:14,721 --> 01:20:17,760
Speaker 2: side of things, I regret the pain that I caused

1604
01:20:17,761 --> 01:20:23,441
Speaker 2: people when I was at my worst, because I know

1605
01:20:23,481 --> 01:20:26,121
Speaker 2: how it feels now where I didn't then. It was

1606
01:20:26,161 --> 01:20:28,281
Speaker 2: all ego then, but now it's all pain. Now so

1607
01:20:28,361 --> 01:20:31,720
Speaker 2: I know, I know, So I regret. I regret causing

1608
01:20:31,761 --> 01:20:37,801
Speaker 2: people suffer. I regret all the negative emotions that I

1609
01:20:37,841 --> 01:20:41,201
Speaker 2: created around that surrounded me to be able to cause

1610
01:20:41,241 --> 01:20:46,081
Speaker 2: people harm, to be able to boost my ego. So

1611
01:20:46,201 --> 01:20:47,721
Speaker 2: I regret. I regret that.

1612
01:20:48,161 --> 01:20:51,401
Speaker 1: So you actually think that that that that violent you

1613
01:20:51,761 --> 01:20:53,361
Speaker 1: is no longer there anymore.

1614
01:20:58,041 --> 01:21:04,961
Speaker 2: That's the second time I've got you.

1615
01:21:05,201 --> 01:21:07,641
Speaker 1: Hey, you you put yourself in that hole.

1616
01:21:08,081 --> 01:21:15,441
Speaker 2: But listen, listen, Yeah, it's not that that mean that

1617
01:21:15,521 --> 01:21:19,361
Speaker 2: means is gone. Yeah, that that that hot, that hot

1618
01:21:19,441 --> 01:21:23,961
Speaker 2: happening instant is gone. Like the violence side of thing.

1619
01:21:24,161 --> 01:21:26,441
Speaker 2: If if I get like I said to you earlier on,

1620
01:21:26,561 --> 01:21:28,801
Speaker 2: if if I was to be if I was to

1621
01:21:28,881 --> 01:21:36,761
Speaker 2: be put into a corner, it's there. It's always exactly.

1622
01:21:37,201 --> 01:21:39,601
Speaker 2: You never lose that. If you've got that, if you've

1623
01:21:39,641 --> 01:21:44,441
Speaker 2: got that animal there and the disease, if it's there,

1624
01:21:45,001 --> 01:21:47,081
Speaker 2: you ain't never losing it. It's never gone, you know,

1625
01:21:47,241 --> 01:21:50,561
Speaker 2: it never is. But do I want to cause people problems? Now?

1626
01:21:51,001 --> 01:21:54,401
Speaker 2: That's gone, that's long gone. I'm definitely not the first

1627
01:21:54,441 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 2: person to to to be on that like ego trip

1628
01:21:59,001 --> 01:22:00,881
Speaker 2: where I have to make sure that you know that

1629
01:22:01,001 --> 01:22:04,521
Speaker 2: I'm the better person. That's that's long gone. But if

1630
01:22:04,521 --> 01:22:13,961
Speaker 2: you put me in a corner, hello, oh man, you're.

1631
01:22:13,841 --> 01:22:15,841
Speaker 1: Just a mate, You're just a teddy bear.

1632
01:22:16,001 --> 01:22:20,800
Speaker 2: Come on, exactly, exactly, you know. So for onwards and upwards,

1633
01:22:20,841 --> 01:22:24,201
Speaker 2: it's just positivity and awareness really and just to carry

1634
01:22:24,201 --> 01:22:28,081
Speaker 2: on just being being happy and and just you know,

1635
01:22:28,241 --> 01:22:31,041
Speaker 2: staying away from as much of the negative as I can.

1636
01:22:31,481 --> 01:22:35,681
Speaker 2: It's testing, it's testing you know yourself. It's harder to

1637
01:22:35,721 --> 01:22:37,041
Speaker 2: be good than it is to be bad.

1638
01:22:37,601 --> 01:22:39,641
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you came on to talk about it.

1639
01:22:39,681 --> 01:22:41,881
Speaker 1: And it's you know, as I said, it's not just

1640
01:22:41,921 --> 01:22:44,401
Speaker 1: here that'll hear it over here and everyone else. That's

1641
01:22:44,401 --> 01:22:46,081
Speaker 1: why I said, if you want to give, you give

1642
01:22:46,081 --> 01:22:47,761
Speaker 1: you a charity, a plug and all like that, and

1643
01:22:47,841 --> 01:22:51,081
Speaker 1: so it's you know, it gets out there and the charities.

1644
01:22:51,121 --> 01:22:53,761
Speaker 2: Be Lucky Anti Crime Foundation my brother always he never

1645
01:22:53,761 --> 01:22:56,241
Speaker 2: said goodbye, He always said be lucky. So it was

1646
01:22:56,321 --> 01:22:59,081
Speaker 2: named after him really, so it's be Lucky Anti Crime Foundation.

1647
01:23:00,201 --> 01:23:03,121
Speaker 2: The podcast where our raise awareness where people haven't had

1648
01:23:03,121 --> 01:23:05,281
Speaker 2: a voice or they've been they've been shut I'm to

1649
01:23:05,321 --> 01:23:07,601
Speaker 2: be able to hear is the Paul Sandsbury Podcast, and

1650
01:23:07,641 --> 01:23:11,521
Speaker 2: that's the same across all social media. My sponsors Black

1651
01:23:11,561 --> 01:23:14,681
Speaker 2: Saint London, they've got a YouTube channel Gang Up as well,

1652
01:23:14,681 --> 01:23:18,800
Speaker 2: Black Saint London TV. But yeah, it's all based around

1653
01:23:19,321 --> 01:23:21,441
Speaker 2: what I do. If you want to tattoo Lucky thirteen,

1654
01:23:21,481 --> 01:23:27,961
Speaker 2: Paul stands by, check it out. Yeah, so it's all good.

1655
01:23:28,001 --> 01:23:29,201
Speaker 2: I appreciate you man, now.

1656
01:23:29,081 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 1: Bro, it's been a pleasure, man, pleasure. I'm telling you

1657
01:23:32,041 --> 01:23:38,681
Speaker 1: friends for life, Friends for next week on Secrets of

1658
01:23:38,721 --> 01:23:39,281
Speaker 1: the Underworld.

1659
01:23:39,321 --> 01:23:41,041
Speaker 3: Okay, this is going to sound weird, but I never

1660
01:23:41,081 --> 01:23:42,281
Speaker 3: knew what a gay man looked like.

1661
01:23:42,641 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 1: Gay was forbidden.

1662
01:23:43,801 --> 01:23:45,601
Speaker 3: Okay, in the religion gay it's a.

1663
01:23:45,921 --> 01:23:48,441
Speaker 1: We have Trishy Dishy, the Queen of Sydney's Nightlight.

1664
01:23:48,641 --> 01:23:51,680
Speaker 3: People that I know for thirty years turn their back

1665
01:23:51,721 --> 01:23:54,641
Speaker 3: on me, cannot talk to me, cannot look at me,

1666
01:23:55,041 --> 01:23:57,441
Speaker 3: treat me like a level. You know. That's not that's

1667
01:23:57,481 --> 01:24:00,281
Speaker 3: not a religion of loves. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but

1668
01:24:00,401 --> 01:24:01,961
Speaker 3: you know I know in my heart I've done the

1669
01:24:02,001 --> 01:24:03,801
Speaker 3: right thing. I don't even drink that much now, but

1670
01:24:03,881 --> 01:24:06,081
Speaker 3: I'll have a couple of cocktails if you wet the

1671
01:24:06,121 --> 01:24:10,241
Speaker 3: sea shots and that's if you have a job, you

1672
01:24:10,361 --> 01:24:12,961
Speaker 3: just place it ad on there ship, and that's how

1673
01:24:13,001 --> 01:24:13,361
Speaker 3: it works.

1674
01:24:13,401 --> 01:24:14,001
Speaker 2: They work out.

1675
01:24:14,081 --> 01:24:16,961
Speaker 1: Course, she can't you anymore?

1676
01:24:17,001 --> 01:24:19,841
Speaker 3: You know everything I do, man, You know like I'm

1677
01:24:19,841 --> 01:24:22,081
Speaker 3: not stopping yet, And people go, aren't you old enough?

1678
01:24:22,081 --> 01:24:25,401
Speaker 3: Haven't you done enough? No, I haven't done enough. Don't

1679
01:24:25,521 --> 01:24:28,241
Speaker 3: ever ask me that again. I get a lot of

1680
01:24:28,241 --> 01:24:31,281
Speaker 3: the sexy girls, you know, working girls as well, so

1681
01:24:31,561 --> 01:24:31,881
Speaker 3: come in