WEBVTT - Search for Bronwyn Winfield dives deep

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<v Speaker 1>A warning before we start. This episode contains serious allegations

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<v Speaker 1>of physical assault and murder from The Australian. Here's what's

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<v Speaker 1>on the front. I'm Christinamiot. It's Friday, July twelve. A

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<v Speaker 1>woman whose visa was canceled by Immigration Minister Andrew Giles

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<v Speaker 1>under the flawed Direction ninety nine will appeal the decision

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<v Speaker 1>in the Federal Court. It could be a huge legal

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<v Speaker 1>headache for the government if more foreign criminals caught up

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<v Speaker 1>in the immigration bungle take their cases to court. That

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<v Speaker 1>exclusive story by Brihannon Down is live right now at

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<v Speaker 1>The Australian dot com dot a U. A twenty eight

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<v Speaker 1>year old man was charged with three counts of domestic

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<v Speaker 1>violence related murder on Thursday after a fire at his

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<v Speaker 1>home in Western Sydney killed two boys aged six and

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<v Speaker 1>two and a five month old baby. The man was

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<v Speaker 1>also charged with five counts of attempted murder relating to

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<v Speaker 1>his partner and four other children, who escaped the inferno

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<v Speaker 1>with the help of a neighbor. The ex wife of

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<v Speaker 1>John Winfield told police the Lenox Head bricklayer choked and

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<v Speaker 1>threatened to kill her. That's a stunning allegation made In

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<v Speaker 1>the latest installment of an investigation into the disappearance of

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<v Speaker 1>Winfield's third wife, Bronwyn in nineteen ninety three, John Winfield

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<v Speaker 1>has denied all wrongdoing. We'll have more on that later.

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<v Speaker 1>In the episode first up, the podcast series by National

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<v Speaker 1>Chief correspondent Headley Thomas dives deep in search of the

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<v Speaker 1>missing lennox Head Mum Lake Ainsworth on the New South

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<v Speaker 1>Wales North coast. The Tea Tree Lake is a literal

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<v Speaker 1>stones throw from Lennox Head's famed seven Mile Beach on

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<v Speaker 1>its eastern edge. It's here that the road ends, and

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<v Speaker 1>passage between the two is only possible on foot. It's

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<v Speaker 1>twelve hectares or about twenty football fields of deep, dark

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<v Speaker 1>fresh water, stained by tannets from the paper bark trees

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<v Speaker 1>that hug its perimeter. In the warmer months, locals and

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<v Speaker 1>tourists pull up stumps, swimming and barbecuing their way through

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<v Speaker 1>long summer days. And it's here, in this deep still

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<v Speaker 1>water that some friends and family believe Bronwyn Winfield's body

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<v Speaker 1>has been hidden for thirty one years. Bronwyn Winfield vanished

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<v Speaker 1>from her home on Sandstone Cresset in lennox Head on

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<v Speaker 1>the evening of May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three. On that night,

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<v Speaker 1>she tucked her two little girls into bed and kissed

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<v Speaker 1>them good night. Her husband, John Winfield says she was

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<v Speaker 1>feeling overwhelmed by the disintegration of their relationship and caring

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<v Speaker 1>for the two little girls on her own, and he

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<v Speaker 1>says she'd relayed her intentions to take a break from

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<v Speaker 1>it all for a couple of days. Then, he says,

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<v Speaker 1>she made a phone call, got into a car at

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<v Speaker 1>the front and left their Sandstone Crescent house around nine

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<v Speaker 1>thirty pm. Bronwin hasn't been seen or heard from since.

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<v Speaker 1>John Winfield has denied all wrongdoing. Bron Win Winfield's mysterious

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<v Speaker 1>disappearance is the subject of an investigative podcast by The

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<v Speaker 1>Australian's National Chief correspondent Headley Thomas. In that series, Bronwin's

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<v Speaker 1>loved ones have voiced their grave concerns about what they

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<v Speaker 1>believe happened on the night she disappeared three decades ago.

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<v Speaker 2>With the shortest route if you're looking for a body

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<v Speaker 2>of water is Lake Ainsworth.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Bronwyn Winfield's brother, Andy Reid. He was joined by

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<v Speaker 1>his wife Michelle. In episode nine of the Bronwyn podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>The street on the right hand side of the lake,

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<v Speaker 3>and if you go up there you can nearly at

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<v Speaker 3>some point back your car or path right beside the

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<v Speaker 3>edge of the road, and the water is right next

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<v Speaker 3>to you.

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<v Speaker 4>What's the function of the surfboard.

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<v Speaker 2>To be able to take there out to the center

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<v Speaker 2>of the lake where it's quite deep way down, drop

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<v Speaker 2>her off the board, paddle back in, come on, pick

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<v Speaker 2>up the girls file out to Sydney.

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<v Speaker 1>Lake Ainsworth is about seven minutes drive from Sandstone Crescent,

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<v Speaker 1>potentially faster at night when there are less cars on

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<v Speaker 1>the road and fewer pedestrians milling about. Andy Reid and

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<v Speaker 1>others believe it's plausible Bronwin Winfield met with foul play

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<v Speaker 1>sometime after her children went to bed, and that her

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<v Speaker 1>husband bundled her body into the family car, paddled out

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<v Speaker 1>on Lake Ainsworth and submerged Bronwin's body into that dark water.

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<v Speaker 2>Swim all the way out out to the middle. She

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<v Speaker 2>could jump back on paddlebacking. Job done ten minutes flat.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a terrible thing to be thinking of. That makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Ronman's cousin, Madison Walsh, has just completed a degree in

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<v Speaker 1>forensic science and believes searching the lake is a worthwhile exercise.

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<v Speaker 1>She's been assisting Heady with this investigation into the disappearance

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<v Speaker 1>of the cousin who vanished before she was born.

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<v Speaker 5>I think we need to get a sona a side

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<v Speaker 5>scan sona because they have found so many people. Ill

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<v Speaker 5>happily die if we find something and the police aren't

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<v Speaker 5>doing anything, so might just have to be asked.

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<v Speaker 1>And so off they went. On a windy weekend in

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<v Speaker 1>early July, Headley, Maddie and a contingent of search and

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<v Speaker 1>rescue experts, including a former Australian Navy captain, traveled to

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<v Speaker 1>Lake Ainsworth where they probed its murky depths for signs

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<v Speaker 1>of Bronwyn Winfield.

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<v Speaker 2>Of interest.

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<v Speaker 6>So I'll get this the view ready, We'll get the

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<v Speaker 6>battery ready.

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<v Speaker 1>In some intriguing discoveries were made, like a brick pulled

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<v Speaker 1>from the lake's depths.

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<v Speaker 6>Rapairs is potentially something I'd like to larger than than

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<v Speaker 6>what I've been seeing, so I'd love to get the

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<v Speaker 6>diver down to investigate what it could potentially be. It's

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<v Speaker 6>in the far northwest corner of the lake, which correlates

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<v Speaker 6>the potentially attract of it.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, this was a very different type of search because

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<v Speaker 4>the police had no connection to this.

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<v Speaker 1>Headley Thomas is the Australian's National Chief correspondent and the

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<v Speaker 1>creator of the investigative podcast Bronwyn.

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<v Speaker 4>It was really conducted by volunteers, Solely volunteers who had

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<v Speaker 4>specialized training. We had Ash mc donald, a very highly

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<v Speaker 4>trained scuba diver, former Australian Navy captain, and Chris Darcy

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<v Speaker 4>who has a lot of experience and doing searches of

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<v Speaker 4>terrain and underwater. He has site Scancena and he also

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<v Speaker 4>has cadaverdocs and they gave their time, their equipment. They

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<v Speaker 4>traveled from Sydney and Newcastle respectively, and we're very grateful.

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<v Speaker 4>And this is the lake that is very close to

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<v Speaker 4>the beach north of Lenox. It's loved by the locals

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<v Speaker 4>and it was a popular place for Bromwin and John

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<v Speaker 4>two when they lived together in Lenox. It must have

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<v Speaker 4>been a really difficult time for Andy. He'd come up

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<v Speaker 4>with his daughter Caitlin and they were very apprehensive, but

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<v Speaker 4>also I think joining in what was a really positive

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<v Speaker 4>community spirit. People came down to see what we were doing.

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<v Speaker 4>Friends of Bromwin, people who have been featured in the podcast,

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<v Speaker 4>who have helped me with the investigation. They also came

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<v Speaker 4>down to the shore and you know there was a

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<v Speaker 4>nice atmosphere, but everybody knew that. You know, we were

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<v Speaker 4>looking for Bromman's body. That's what Andy wanted to find.

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<v Speaker 4>And he said at one point, you know, wouldn't it

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<v Speaker 4>just be remarkable if I went out on the boat

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<v Speaker 4>with Chris and found my own sister's body.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up? What's next for this remarkable investigation. Subscribers to

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<v Speaker 1>The Australian here episodes of bronwin First episode ten is

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<v Speaker 1>live right now at bronwanpodcast dot com. A subscription also

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<v Speaker 1>includes all of the australians world class journalism and commentary,

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<v Speaker 1>as well as breaking news alerts, newsletters and special events.

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<v Speaker 1>Join us at the Australian dot com dot au and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be back after this break.

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<v Speaker 7>There's been a development in a suspected murder of New

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<v Speaker 7>South Wales mother bronwyn Winfield more than three decades ago.

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<v Speaker 7>A witness account which was previously dismissed, is now being

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<v Speaker 7>considered by detectives.

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<v Speaker 1>Headley Thomas's investigative podcast series into the disappearance of Lennox

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<v Speaker 1>head mother Bronwin Winfield has advanced her case in leaps

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<v Speaker 1>and bounds since it first aired in late May. It

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<v Speaker 1>brought to the extraordinary account of Judy Singh, who was

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<v Speaker 1>ignored by New South Wales police assigned to the investigation

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<v Speaker 1>in those early days when Bronwyn Winfield was being treated

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<v Speaker 1>as a missing person not a potential homicide victim.

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<v Speaker 8>I could see directly into the car and I saw

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<v Speaker 8>what looked to be like a mummy in the back

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<v Speaker 8>of the car, and I thought, what it be going

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<v Speaker 8>late at night with you know something that looked like

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<v Speaker 8>I just called it a mummy and I thought, well,

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<v Speaker 8>ign if he was taking out belongings, you wouldn't make

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<v Speaker 8>it look like a body, do you know?

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<v Speaker 7>Men.

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<v Speaker 1>In the weeks since that episode was released, police have

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<v Speaker 1>interviewed Judy sEH at length and visited her old stomping

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<v Speaker 1>ground near Sandstone Crescent in order to finally understand what

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<v Speaker 1>she says she saw on the evening of May sixteenth,

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety three, the last time Bronwyn Winfield was seen alive,

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<v Speaker 1>and still the revelations are coming. Episode ten of Bronwyn

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<v Speaker 1>released for the Australian subscribers on Thursday revealed disturbing allegations

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<v Speaker 1>made by John Winfield's ex wife about their relationship. Jennifer

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<v Speaker 1>Mason married John Winfield when she was a teenager, after

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<v Speaker 1>falling pregnant with his child in early nineteen seventy four.

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<v Speaker 1>In a statement to police made in nineteen ninety eight,

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<v Speaker 1>when the detective Glenn Taylor finally conducted a thorough investigation

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<v Speaker 1>into Bronwin Winfield's disappearance, Jenny Mason claimed she was scared

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<v Speaker 1>of Winfield's temper and alleges he choked and threatened to

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<v Speaker 1>kill her. A voice actor is reading part of that statement.

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<v Speaker 9>I recall on one occasion when he pushed me back

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<v Speaker 9>onto the bed because answers back to him. On that time,

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<v Speaker 9>he scared me a great deal. He said to me,

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<v Speaker 9>I'll kill you if you say that again. And at

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<v Speaker 9>the time he had his hands around my throat and

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<v Speaker 9>was squeezing. I remember I managed to say go ahead.

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<v Speaker 9>Into my surprise, he kept squeezing me around the throat.

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<v Speaker 9>I managed to kick him in the groin and I

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<v Speaker 9>got away from him and hit in the outside laundry.

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<v Speaker 1>When Headley first began work on Bronwin he believed the

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<v Speaker 1>series would comprise six, maybe eight episodes, but now there

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<v Speaker 1>are ten, running at about an hour apiece. If you

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<v Speaker 1>ran all the scripts back to back, you'd have enough

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<v Speaker 1>for a pretty chunky book. And that's to say nothing

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<v Speaker 1>of the many drafts and edits that don't make the

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<v Speaker 1>final cut. Now the podcast will take a break.

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<v Speaker 4>Something remarkable has happened. During the eight weeks we've been

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<v Speaker 4>releasing weekly episodes. We've been deluged with information from members

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<v Speaker 4>of the public. Friends and acquaintances of Bronwyn and John

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<v Speaker 4>have been sharing a lot too. Hundreds of listeners have

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<v Speaker 4>contacted me via Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot

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<v Speaker 4>au with information, and some of it is we believe

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<v Speaker 4>very significant. Our Facebook group, the Bromwyn Podcast Official Discussion Group,

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<v Speaker 4>has become a lively exercise in crowdsolving, with listeners constructively

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<v Speaker 4>putting together maps and timelines to try to work out

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<v Speaker 4>what might have happened. As a result, the narrative arc

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<v Speaker 4>of the Bromwyn series has changed fundamentally. One of the

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<v Speaker 4>key reasons this investigative podcast began was because I believe

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<v Speaker 4>Bromwyn's disappearance and alleged murder could still be old This

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<v Speaker 4>belief has only grown stronger as the series has unfolded.

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<v Speaker 1>Headley Thomas is The Australian's National Chief correspondent and the

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<v Speaker 1>creator of the investigative podcast bron Win. Thanks for joining

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<v Speaker 1>us on the front this week. Our team is Claire Harvey,

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<v Speaker 1>Jasper leik Leat Sammagloo, Josh Burton, Matthew Condon, Tiffany Dimmack

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<v Speaker 1>and me Kristen amiet