WEBVTT - 'You're all owned by China!': Rage at the Trump conviction

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<v Speaker 1>We are looking at count one guilty, count two, guilty,

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<v Speaker 1>count three guilty, account four guilty.

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<v Speaker 2>From Schwartz Media. I'm Ashlin McGee. This is seven.

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<v Speaker 1>Am count seven guilty, count eight guilty. I know there's not.

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<v Speaker 2>Much that surprises anymore when it comes to Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>Count eleven guilty, count twelve guilty, count three.

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<v Speaker 2>But just stay with me for a moment, because today

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<v Speaker 2>we're at the point of talking about the logistics of

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<v Speaker 2>a former president potentially running an election campaign from a

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<v Speaker 2>jail cell, which of course begs the question where would

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<v Speaker 2>the Secret Service sleep?

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty one guilty, count twenty two guilty count twenty.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not there yet. Trump has been convicted of falsifying

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<v Speaker 2>business records to cover up an affair with a porn star,

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<v Speaker 2>but he may escape jail when he's sentenced in July,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's promised an appeal. Today's senior researcher at the

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<v Speaker 2>Australian Institut to doctor Emma shortis on the mind boggling

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<v Speaker 2>logistics and the risk of violence and disorder in the

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<v Speaker 2>fallout from.

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<v Speaker 1>The verdict thirty one guilty, count thirty two guilty.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Monday, June three, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Thirty four guilty. That is Donald J. Trump defendant in

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<v Speaker 1>New York versus Donald Trump found guilty on all thirty

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<v Speaker 1>four felony counts. That is the verdict here in this case.

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<v Speaker 2>Emma, Donald Trump is now a convicted criminal. Paying me

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<v Speaker 2>a picture of some of the reactions we saw after

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<v Speaker 2>this pretty stunning verdict came down.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it is stunning. Look their reactions, Well, they've been

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<v Speaker 3>almost exactly as you would predict them to be. So

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<v Speaker 3>Trump has of course talked about a weaponized system of justice,

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<v Speaker 3>that this is an unjust political trial. He's had his

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<v Speaker 3>surrogates out as well saying much the same thing, particularly

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<v Speaker 3>the candidates for his running mate, so for the vice

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<v Speaker 3>presidential candidate, have been in doing the rounds of social

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<v Speaker 3>media and American TV saying exactly the kinds of things

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<v Speaker 3>in support of Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think, question Abby, this is their weaponization of

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<v Speaker 2>the justice system against their political opponent.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a justice system that hunts Republicans while protecting gimmockants.

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<v Speaker 3>Was not law, This was not criminal justice.

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<v Speaker 1>This was politics.

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<v Speaker 3>This was a political smear job.

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<v Speaker 1>This was an attack job. This is what you see

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<v Speaker 1>in banana.

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<v Speaker 3>Republics and a quintessential show trial.

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<v Speaker 2>This is what you see in communist countries, this is

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<v Speaker 2>what I grew up.

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<v Speaker 3>Interestingly, the Biden administration has been pretty quiet. They've actually

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<v Speaker 3>issued a statement saying something along the lines of we

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<v Speaker 3>support the rule of law and won't be making a

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<v Speaker 3>further comment. And that's very much in line with their

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<v Speaker 3>efforts to keep distance, I suppose between the White House

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<v Speaker 3>and the Department of Justice. That's not going to fly,

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<v Speaker 3>of course, with Donald Trump supporters who are utterly convinced

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<v Speaker 3>that this is a conspiracy to stop Donald Trump from

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<v Speaker 3>being did and you know, as he has for a

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<v Speaker 3>long time, he's been very successful at weaponizing that narrative.

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<v Speaker 1>He just killed our country.

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<v Speaker 2>You just fucking c by China.

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<v Speaker 3>So Trump has been running these lines about this is

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<v Speaker 3>a political case, this is Joe Biden coming out to

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<v Speaker 3>get him. It's part of the deep state conspiracy that

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<v Speaker 3>has been in place from the start.

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<v Speaker 4>And the whole thing, we didn't do a thing wrong.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm a very innocent man, and it's okay. I'm fighting

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<v Speaker 4>for our country. I'm fighting for our constitution. Our whole

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<v Speaker 4>country is big rigged right there. This was done by

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<v Speaker 4>the Biden administration.

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<v Speaker 3>And if you listen to the reaction in Australia, not

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<v Speaker 3>not just about this particular case, but about Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 3>more generally. I think you can see, particularly in the

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<v Speaker 3>Liberal Party, elements to the first right in the Liberal

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<v Speaker 3>Party being emboldened by Trump and by his support and

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<v Speaker 3>starting to use the same kind of language that Trump uses.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we've heard Peter Dutton talk about the rise

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<v Speaker 3>of woke politics in Australia and what that might mean

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<v Speaker 3>with lines kind of directly imported from the United States.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think that's something we should watch just given

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<v Speaker 3>what's going on in that right wing universe.

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<v Speaker 2>Take me to the actual verdict, Now, what was found

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<v Speaker 2>and just how significant is it?

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<v Speaker 3>Sure? So this case has been it's kind of been

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<v Speaker 3>dubbed the hush money case, I suppose, and it's this

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<v Speaker 3>argument that Donald Trump sought to suppress a bad news

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<v Speaker 3>story about his affair with an adult film star because

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<v Speaker 3>he was worried. He and his team were worried that

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<v Speaker 3>it would affect the outcome of an election. So essentially

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<v Speaker 3>they've paid this person off to stop her from going

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<v Speaker 3>public with a story because they were worried that it

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<v Speaker 3>would mean Donald Trump wouldn't win the election. And so

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<v Speaker 3>it has been originally framed, I suppose, as just kind

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<v Speaker 3>of sleazy case, like more of a sex scandal case

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<v Speaker 3>surrounding Donald Trump. But what if it's actually about is

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<v Speaker 3>an effort to influence an election result, and I think

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<v Speaker 3>forms part of an established pattern now of efforts to

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<v Speaker 3>that end. So this happened before the twenty sixteen election.

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<v Speaker 3>And then, of course the other criminal cases that Trump

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<v Speaker 3>is involved in, the other three are about similar patterns

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<v Speaker 3>of behavior throughout his presidency and afterwards. And interestingly, this

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<v Speaker 3>case was often framed as the weakest of the four,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the one that had the least significance, where

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<v Speaker 3>actually the evidence was the weakest. And so the fact

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<v Speaker 3>that he's been found guilty so quickly round him by

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<v Speaker 3>a jury of every single count, so it's thirty four

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<v Speaker 3>separate felony counts, is really hugely significant and I think

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<v Speaker 3>potentially at least established as a pattern for those other

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<v Speaker 3>three criminal cases. With the caveat, of course, though, that

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<v Speaker 3>the other three cases have been delayed by a number

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<v Speaker 3>of appeals, that some of the questions have been elevated

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<v Speaker 3>to the Supreme Court, and so it's actually pretty likely

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<v Speaker 3>that this case is the only one that's going to

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<v Speaker 3>be even close to being finalized before the election in November.

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<v Speaker 2>So, Emma, there's been a lot of headlines around about

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<v Speaker 2>how Donald Trump can in fact still be president even

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<v Speaker 2>as a convicted felon. Talk me through how that's possible

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<v Speaker 2>and how that would work.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's wild. So he can't can't vote as a

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<v Speaker 3>convicted Hellen, but he can run for the presidency. I

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<v Speaker 3>mean it's true. Again, like, this is a completely wild

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<v Speaker 3>situation that the United States has never confronted before. So

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<v Speaker 3>there's no precedent for it. But there's actually nothing legal

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<v Speaker 3>to stop somebody running for president even if they've been

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<v Speaker 3>convicted of the crime. Theoretically, even if they're in prison,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, they can still run a campaign and still

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<v Speaker 3>be president. It is a wild thing to contemplate that.

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<v Speaker 2>Here we are, I want to get into a little

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<v Speaker 2>more of the detail around that. So logistically, if he

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<v Speaker 2>were to be jailed, and that's not a certainty, but

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<v Speaker 2>if he were to be jails, how would he be

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<v Speaker 2>sworn in? How would he govern? What would it you know,

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<v Speaker 2>what would a campaign look like? Talk me through all

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<v Speaker 2>of those logistical details.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, look, I mean I suppose the first thing I

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<v Speaker 3>would say is that sentencing is expected on the eleventh

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<v Speaker 3>of July. And I'm not a legal expert, but the

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<v Speaker 3>general consensus is that jail time is unlikely. It's more

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<v Speaker 3>likely to be a suspended sentence or a fine or

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<v Speaker 3>something like that. But the logistics even of that are

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<v Speaker 3>pretty wild to contemplate, because if he is on probation,

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<v Speaker 3>for example, he will have to seek permission to leave

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<v Speaker 3>New York to campaign. He probably get that permission, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>In terms of the potential for him to actually go

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<v Speaker 3>to prison, which is certainly possible, nobody really knows.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 3>There's all these questions about he has a secret service

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<v Speaker 3>detail as a former president, for example, that goes with

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<v Speaker 3>him everywhere, So like where do they go? Are they

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<v Speaker 3>in prison with him, or like next door or outside?

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<v Speaker 3>And actually nobody has answers to any of these questions.

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<v Speaker 3>How do you run a can paign from a jail

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<v Speaker 3>cell given, for example, you know how many phone calls

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<v Speaker 3>you are allowed to have a day. You can't have

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<v Speaker 3>cameras coming in all of the time. And actually, this

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<v Speaker 3>is what leads me to suspect that there will be

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<v Speaker 3>a reluctance to impose a prison sentence with this verdict.

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<v Speaker 3>I do think, though, the more likely outcome is that

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<v Speaker 3>all of this will be delayed indefinitely. You know, Trump

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<v Speaker 3>is so good and his legal team are so good

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<v Speaker 3>at dragging all of these things out with appeals. He's

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<v Speaker 3>been doing it successfully since the nineteen seventies. The likelihood

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<v Speaker 3>is more that, you know, he dragged it out for

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<v Speaker 3>as long as possible, and then if he wins an election,

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<v Speaker 3>ignores the sentence, or you know, the United States is

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<v Speaker 3>in such chaos that it's unenforceable somehow. So maybe I'm

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<v Speaker 3>suggesting that an inauguration from a prison cell is not likely,

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<v Speaker 3>but I don't want to make that prediction. In case

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<v Speaker 3>it does happen, I wouldn't rule it out.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break, criminal convictions could actually boost Trump's electoral prospects, Emma,

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of Donald Trump's bid for reelection, How does

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<v Speaker 2>this play out? How does it affect it?

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<v Speaker 3>I think at Galvanizer the base, you know, it works

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<v Speaker 3>sinto his narrative really well in terms of you know

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<v Speaker 3>that this is a conspiracy against him, and all that

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<v Speaker 3>standing between Donald Trump and his supporters is him, and

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<v Speaker 3>that's a line he's been running for a really long

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<v Speaker 3>time quite successfully. Look, there has been polling that suggests

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<v Speaker 3>that a criminal conviction will affect the way more independent

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<v Speaker 3>voters or undecided voters feel about Donald Trump, that having

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<v Speaker 3>actually had a conviction, that people would reconsider his I

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<v Speaker 3>guess his how fit he is for the presidency. So

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<v Speaker 3>we do have that information, but I think we should

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<v Speaker 3>be pretty skeptical about that, because, you know, we keep

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<v Speaker 3>predicting that support for Donald Trump will fall off. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>people couldn't possibly keep supporting him after he's got a

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<v Speaker 3>criminal conviction, and those predictions, you know, keep falling over

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<v Speaker 3>as well. So I wouldn't necessarily imagine that support drops off,

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<v Speaker 3>especially given that President Joe Biden's approval rating is still

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<v Speaker 3>so low. You know, we haven't really spoken about that,

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<v Speaker 3>but that is an extraordinary situation to contemplate, where you

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<v Speaker 3>have one candidate who's actively anti democratic, who's now a

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<v Speaker 3>convicted criminal, facing a current president and then being in

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<v Speaker 3>polling effectively neck and neck.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 3>Some of the most recent polling done by the New

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<v Speaker 3>York Times all bit before this result, of course, suggested

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<v Speaker 3>that if the election was held tomorrow, Trump would win,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, he would win those critical swimming states.

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<v Speaker 2>And as we talk, Emma, I've just tried to access

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump's donation website, not to make a donation, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's down. What's that about.

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<v Speaker 3>The consensus is that it's because there's been so much traffic.

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<v Speaker 3>You know that this result has confirmed in that right

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<v Speaker 3>wing universe that you know, they're at to get Donald

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<v Speaker 3>Trump and he needs his supporters to donate, and certainly

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<v Speaker 3>the campaign would be heartened by that because actually those

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<v Speaker 3>small donations, so the five to ten dollars repeat donations

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<v Speaker 3>that come from supporters, are really critical to raising money,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's been dropping off for Trump. So that's the

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<v Speaker 3>reason we've seen in the news recently that Trump has

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<v Speaker 3>been courting billionaires, for example, that he's been trying to

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<v Speaker 3>convince the billionaires to give him money. He's been making

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<v Speaker 3>them promises, for example, been making some promises to oil

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<v Speaker 3>barons about what he'll do if they donate money to

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<v Speaker 3>his campaign. And we know another one of the billionaires

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<v Speaker 3>that Trump has been at least attempting to court is

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<v Speaker 3>Elon Musk, of course, and anybody who's still on Twitter

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<v Speaker 3>or x will have seen Musks. I'm not sure if

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<v Speaker 3>it's a dissent or a revelation I suppose of his

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<v Speaker 3>politics into some pretty extrame views and lots of noise

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<v Speaker 3>about those kind of woke politics. That fits really well

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<v Speaker 3>into Trump's narrative. And I think Trump certainly has an

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<v Speaker 3>interest in in courting Musk and his money, and so

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<v Speaker 3>watching it how that plays out and where Musk in

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<v Speaker 3>particular falls along those lines will be I guess, another

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<v Speaker 3>indication of the strength of Trump's fundraising power, which, of course,

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<v Speaker 3>in American politics, has a huge impact on presidential outcomes.

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<v Speaker 2>And we've already seen how American voters can see two

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<v Speaker 2>really different realities. So now we've got Trump as a

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<v Speaker 2>convicted criminal, him on the other hand, denying that there

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<v Speaker 2>was ever a fair trial and that he's been stitched up.

0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.200
<v Speaker 2>What does that mean for the risk of disorder or

0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.080
<v Speaker 2>violence as the campaign rolls on.

0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.520
<v Speaker 3>I mean, American politics has always been violent. You know,

0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.160
<v Speaker 3>the country was nearly torn apart by a civil war,

0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.000
<v Speaker 3>and so you know, I've said that political violence has

0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:02.480
<v Speaker 3>been increasingly normal, but it's always been there, of course,

0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:06.360
<v Speaker 3>But as we've seen over the weekend, the potential for

0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:10.400
<v Speaker 3>that to you know, explode, be it into particular incidents

0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:15.760
<v Speaker 3>or something more is really really high.

0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:19.080
<v Speaker 1>What does on what goes on?

0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:21.640
<v Speaker 3>You know, I predict there will be a revolution in

0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.560
<v Speaker 3>this country. Does if this doesn't get cleared up and

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:32.120
<v Speaker 3>cleared up well, the closer it gets to November, of course,

0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:36.800
<v Speaker 3>depending on what happens, the potential for that unrest increases.

0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 3>You know, there has been a normalization I think of

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.840
<v Speaker 3>political violence in the United States, and I think, especially

0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.640
<v Speaker 3>in the case that the election result is close, which

0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.480
<v Speaker 3>it looks like it will be, the likelihood I think

0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.280
<v Speaker 3>of a repeat of that kind of violence is really

0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:57.319
<v Speaker 3>really high. But it's something I think that we should

0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.840
<v Speaker 3>all be especially in Australia, given how close we are

0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:01.520
<v Speaker 3>to be the United States. It's something that we should

0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.840
<v Speaker 3>all be deeply concerned by because that normalization of political

0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 3>violence is a really scary prospect, I think in the

0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:11.680
<v Speaker 3>most powerful country in the world.

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.720
<v Speaker 2>If you stop for a moment and think about what

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.120
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about, it's quite the moment in history, isn't

0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:23.320
<v Speaker 2>it a former president presidential candidate being convicted. What is

0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 2>it about all of this that strikes you the most?

0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.200
<v Speaker 3>Look, I think for me, it is, you know, it's

0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.240
<v Speaker 3>really easy to get caught up in the day to

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 3>day news cycle, you know that this next unprecedented, extraordinary

0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 3>thing has happened again. But for me, the striking thing

0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.520
<v Speaker 3>is the long threads of American history that have led

0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 3>us to this point. You know, the United States has

0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:53.160
<v Speaker 3>never been united. There have always been multiple versions of

0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.760
<v Speaker 3>the United States, going back to the Civil War, and

0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:01.640
<v Speaker 3>those contradictions and tensions between those different versions of the

0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.880
<v Speaker 3>United States have never been reconciled. You know, they've never

0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 3>been united. What we are facing now, I think is

0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 3>the consequences of that of the unresolved issues of the

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.520
<v Speaker 3>Civil War, of the unresolved issues of the civil rights movement,

0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:23.000
<v Speaker 3>for example, in the nineteen sixties, playing out in real

0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.680
<v Speaker 3>time with really dangerous political consequences. And so the only

0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.000
<v Speaker 3>way I think for the United States to move forward

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 3>is to actually confront those foundational issues rather than the

0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:40.440
<v Speaker 3>specifics of Donald Trump. Because he didn't come from nowhere.

0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.479
<v Speaker 3>His is in some ways, I think, the logical conclusion

0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:49.920
<v Speaker 3>of many of those historical contradictions and understanding that I

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.359
<v Speaker 3>think is the only way to understand that Trump phenomenon.

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Emma, thanks so much for your time, my pleasure.

0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 3>Thanks for having me.

0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Also in the news today, the Australian Electoral Commission's new

0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.360
<v Speaker 2>boundaries for a series of seats in Victoria and Western

0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Australia could mean they'll be more likely to change hands.

0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Labour's Peter Khalil will see his margin on paper cut

0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.400
<v Speaker 2>in half, with his seat now including stronger Green's leaning

0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 2>booths in Melbourne's Inner North, while Liberal Keith Wallahan's seat

0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.680
<v Speaker 2>of Menzies is now notionally a Labor seat, and the

0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 2>A and C, the party of Nelson Mandela, has suffered

0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.000
<v Speaker 2>its worst election results since the end of apartheid in

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:43.640
<v Speaker 2>South Africa and the first democratic elections were held. Once

0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the dominant force in South African politics, the A and

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 2>C has now been forced into coalition talks to form

0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 2>government for the first time. I'm Ashlin McGee. This is

0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 2>seven am. Thanks for your company. We'll see you again

0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:55.840
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow morning.

0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.040
<v Speaker 3>You