WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 2 April 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:08.200 Welcome to the late Base. Good evening and welcome to 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:08.760 the program. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.640 I'm Caleb Bond with Joe Hildebrand and Liz Storer. As 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.480 of today in Victoria, you can be chucked in jail 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.960 for up to five years for posting rude memes. We'll 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.680 tell you a little bit more about that very soon 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:24.800 in the papers. The Till candidate, who was banned from 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.320 a hair salon for making sexualized comments to a young 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:32.360 hairdresser has in the past campaigned against sexual harassment, would 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.720 you believe it? And the Sydney train that took off 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.360 today with the doors open, you'll want to see that footage. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:40.200 And later the Libs have come up with a novel 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.880 way to stop Monique Ryan from stealing their core flutes. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:45.760 Now, how's this for a story. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.199 It was broken this afternoon on two GB by Clinton 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.440 Maynard that electric buses that are currently driving around Sydney 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.960 are being charged with diesel generators. Yes, you would have 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.800 thought that. The whole idea of an electric bus is 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.600 that it's clean and green and it's stopping emissions. And 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.680 if you've seen the electric buses that drive around Sydney 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.440 at the moment, you can see on the screen. There 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.280 these diesel generators that are currently being used at the 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.040 Merrickville bus depot. But if you've seen these electric buses 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.000 that drive around Sydney, they say on the side of them, 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:20.479 this is an emissions free bus, and so you'd think 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.480 you'd be able to take that at face value. Apparently not, 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.679 he was Clinton explaining it this afternoon. 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.840 Those depots are supposed to rely on renewable energy. That 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:34.600 is not the case at Marrickville. We have the photographic 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.959 evidence to prove it. I'm also hearing this has been 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.720 repeated other depots across Sydney. Electric buses may well be 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.880 the answer to cleaner, even more reliable public transport in 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.800 the future, but we can't be fooled when the buses 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:52.120 themselves are plugged into diesel generated. 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.720 Those photos you saw before came through from a guy 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.120 who was working at the bus stepot and was rather 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.760 amused to see the clean and green electric buses being 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.400 with diesel generators. Will Transport for New South Wales came 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.160 through to explain that it's okay, it's just a temporary. 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:11.640 Measure because these buses are only there temporarily. It didn't 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.440 make sense to spend a lot of taxpayers money to 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.000 upgrade that depot to full electric because we'll end up 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.680 moving those buses probably in the next nine to twelve 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:23.400 months to an electrified depot. 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:26.840 So in the meantime, instead of putting diesel in a 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.320 bus and then burning it through the combustion engine in 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.000 the bus, will put the diesel into a generator where 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.399 the combustion engine will burn it and turn it into 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.160 electricity that we can feed into the bus, so we 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.679 can say that the bus has zero emissions it rather. 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:42.760 Definats the point of an electric buster. 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:44.920 Oh bo, I don't know, is that all that diesel 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:50.320 is powered by renewable energy. So yeah, there's a I 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.880 just don't get. I'd have to say either it's clean energy. 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:56.280 Or it's no, not exactly. 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.480 And if suddenly the cost to the tax and look 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.640 at the government's good, it's sense of well, it's trying 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.400 to get the balance right. But if it was the 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.800 cost to the taxpayer that everyone was worried about, wouldn't 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:11.280 you just be using the old exact diesel bustles. 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.360 Surely they've got them lying around that they could just 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:14.920 fire them up. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.400 I just yeah, no, I just don't get out and 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:21.720 I think I don't know, I just I think it's 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.200 always the problem with these things. As soon as you 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.239 say something like it's not so much the running of 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:28.640 the clean it's like you say, it's the fact that 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.160 it says this breathe easy, this is a zero emissions bus. 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.360 As soon as you start virtue signaling about it, as 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.400 soon as you start bragging about it, that seems to 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.320 be when everything falls over. And of course these were 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.040 an overhand from the previous government as well, But it's 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.480 just maybe if we just drove the busses, power them 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:47.480 by green instead of saying how great we are, don't 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.680 invite people to kind of you know, get in there 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.480 and prove your eyes. I'm as clean and green and 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.400 zero emissions as you can possibly get. Prove me wrong. 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.800 And this is what I've always found amusing Liz about 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:00.880 you know, people of course getting around with the with 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:04.520 their electric cars, especially early adopters, saying that they're doing 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:06.320 great things for the environment. But then they go home 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.320 and plug them into the wall and fill up with coulfar. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:10.440 Is what I was thinking. This is what everyone with 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:11.160 an EV. 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.520 Does, unless you've got solar panels that you're like somehow 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.720 storaging the energy throughout the day and then charging your 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:18.560 vehicle at night. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.160 That's not green energy either. But ladies and gentlemen, this 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.120 is the electric vehicle revolution. 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.440 And they keep getting caught out time and time again 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.560 using fossil fuels to charge these things. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.200 That's why we have to get rid of all our 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.920 coal fire generation replace it with renewables. Thank you very much, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:43.960 great to have you on backup, would we we have. 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.119 Oh my goodness for crying out loud? 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.960 Well, Victorians, while you were sound asleep this morning, your 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.960 government slapped a gag on your god given. 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.680 Right to free speech. Yes, matters have. 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.560 Gotten even worse for the state of free speech in 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.080 our country thanks to the Victorians who did a last 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:08.400 minute deal with their natural born bedfellows, the Greens, and 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:12.760 got this god forsaken bill up in their parliament at 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:17.760 four am while you were sleeping. Now, the existing protections 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:22.279 against hate speech in Victoria were previously limited to matters 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.440 of religion and race no more. 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.200 They've now expanded them to include. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:33.600 Disability, gender ideology, sex and sexual orientation, and in a 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:39.240 massive expansion from previous vilification offenses which were rarely prosecuted 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.640 and carried a maximum penalty of six months. You're now 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:48.719 looking at five years in the clink if you so 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:53.240 much as post an offensive comment or photo online. 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.480 We are going the way of the UK. 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:02.000 And yet to listen to premiere of Victoria today announcing 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:06.240 these drastic changes, which mean, well, what's left to say 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.640 for you? If you're straight and if you're white? Good 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:14.159 luck Victorians. Here she is announcing this is some incredible 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.680 feat that she's actually tearing up about. 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.520 Yay, Well, there the people I'll be thinking of today 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.120 as we make this historic moment, as we pass this 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.960 bill and have this historic moment not just for the 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.479 statute books, for the Parliament, but for the whole of 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.200 our Victorian community. 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.320 For the whole of your Victorian community, really, because this 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:40.400 sounds like it's all about minority groups and the vast 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:44.039 majority of people just can't say what they want to 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:45.400 say nowadays. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:47.159 Am I wrong? Am I alone? 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:51.880 In thinking that, of course necessarily it was important to 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:58.839 limit religious exemptions in this new revamped vilification laws in Victoria. 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.719 And that's exactly what they did. 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.600 They made sure that the bill was narrowed to prevent 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:11.160 the vilification. So religious exemptions narrowed to prevent the vilification 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:17.600 of I quote, LGBTIQIA plus and other marginalized groups. I 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.560 don't know how many times it's got to be proven, 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.600 and it has time and time again that the minute 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:30.680 you start doing this and make protected species of minority groups, 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:36.240 the majority gets resentful because you are crushing some people's 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:41.400 rights for the perceived rights of others. As far as 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.040 last I checked, we all had the same rights here 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.040 in Australia. And as I've said at nauseum and will 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:52.200 continue to say, hate speech is free speech. Free speech 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.280 is hate speech. You either have both or you have neither, 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.720 and I know which one I want. We're quote literally 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:01.960 going the way of UK. 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:03.840 It was just last month. 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.800 Premier Mins said that we can't have free speech in 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.320 New South Wales because we want to have a multicultural society. 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:14.480 He literally, okay, direct quote for you, Joe, we don't 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.200 I quote. We don't have the same freedom of speech 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:19.840 laws that they have in the United States. And the 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.280 reason for that is we want to hold together a 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:27.120 multicultural community and have people live in peace. And mister Minns, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:33.120 you think you're going to accomplish that by silencing everybody 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.559 else who doesn't belong to minority groups. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:37.959 It doesn't work. 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.800 He says, we do not have the US Constitution and 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.520 US Joe voted. 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.720 To sacrifice our rights to free speech on the altar 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.120 of multicultural. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.360 We do not have a right to free speech in Austria. 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:52.880 That is the only observation he was making. There is 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:56.120 no enshrined bill of rights in Australia. Some jurisdictions have 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.680 recently done up their own, including Victoria, which that simply 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.280 they simply, they simply don't exist. But but what he is 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.720 saying is that historically we have not had a constitutional 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.480 bill of rights like they do in the US, because 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.079 we have a constitution that can be changed by parliament. 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.240 We have a we have a system of government where 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.280 parliament can change what rights citizens do and don't have. 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:21.000 What you can and can't say on any given day. 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.520 It's called the parliament. It makes laws. 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.720 The issue is that we don't don't have. 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.760 Chris means and it is just generous. He was talking 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.360 about whether or not New South Wales should have a 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.480 bill of rights that enshrines these things. That interesting thing 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:36.840 about the. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:41.240 View, and he said we can't because of no, he said, 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.160 we don't. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:44.120 Joe worked for work. 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.440 Read out again said we don't have it, not be 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:47.719 he said. 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.880 Because because of our multicultural society. 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.760 That's why we don't have it. That's why we can't 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:56.000 have it. 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.000 According to mister men, because Australia was designed to have 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.440 a flexible constitution, should that adjusts to the needs of 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.920 the society as the point now and. 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:11.240 It's even a cases like Victoria where we don't have 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:12.840 a right to free speech. 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:13.559 I accept that. 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:15.840 I don't think that there should be any bill of 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.640 rights anywhere that says these rights belong to these people, 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:19.240 these rights. 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:19.880 Belong to these people. 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:23.040 But what we are now seeing is that rights are 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:27.280 being legislated, but they're just being legislated against the majority. 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.040 So if you are lgbt IQ. 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.319 Or you're disabled, or you belong to a minority race 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.920 or whatever, you have the right not to be vilified. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.120 That has been legislated. 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.560 So why why should it be up to the law 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.640 to decide who should. 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.679 And should not be allowed to be offensed? Total I totally, 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:47.120 I totally. 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.280 Agree that it should be illegal to go out and 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.199 incite violence. I think we all are on board with that, 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.839 But to vilify or offend someone is a very different. 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:57.720 Price, and that is why in New South Wales and 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.520 federally there was an incitement to violence. Similar things that 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.200 were taken up as incitement to violence and the penalties 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:05.839 for that were increased, but it didn't extend to all 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:07.960 the other stuff. And this is where it gets really interesting. 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.680 So all of this was done on the back of 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.640 the outbreaks and anti semitism and anti Semitic graffiti and 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.160 f the Jews and you know, you know, where are 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:18.679 the Jews and all that stuff, and so it was 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.360 all about the incitement advance and Victoria's sort of taken 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.200 it up as Victoria's does, and then sort of throwing 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:28.280 in all these other groups in there and protected them 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:29.920 with the same things that were meant to be there 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:35.200 initially to protect Jews. But the DPP they put in 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.600 this exemption. Right, this is how the People's Republic of 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.839 Victoria works. The DPP beliefs and the courts will also 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:45.599 be forced to take into account, quote, the social, cultural, 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:51.760 and historical circumstances that may lead to a person expressing contempt, revulsion, 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.960 or severe ridicule against a minority group. So who do 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:56.120 you think that's applying to y? 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:57.000 Exactly? 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.560 I'm sorry because of my cultural background. I'm allowed to 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:07.000 disabled people. Because of my cultural background, I have to 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.959 vilify gay people. Not sure that that's gonna worse because 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:16.200 of my cultural background, I have to villify women, black people. No, 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.680 it's going to be, of course, so that people who 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.840 are from the middle age can continue. 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.800 To go exactly, and that that is the problem, because. 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:28.480 To be done for them. 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.240 Someone has more right to be offensive in the state 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.319 of Victoria than anyone else. 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:36.600 It is a joke. 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.720 And like you know, I made this argument when we 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:43.240 talked about a freedom of religious discrimination bill as well. 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:44.000 It's the same thing. 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:48.480 When you start legislating one person's rights, you are necessarily 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:53.600 legislating against someone else's rights because one person's rights always 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:57.440 impinge upon someone else's if you don't go down the 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:01.080 road of legislating them at all. We all have rights 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:02.920 and we can all move on with our lives. 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:04.240 And how low is the bar? 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:09.199 Literally, according to this revamped verlification laws, the legal test 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:13.120 applied to civil laws which kicking in June twenty twenty six. 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:18.040 The criminal laws that they've revamped kicking this September, So 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:22.600 get your skates on, Victorians. The legal test applied literally 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:27.599 just asks whether a reasonable person with the protected attribute, 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.440 with the protected attribute. 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.559 Would find the conduct hateful. 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.920 Not whether it's objectively hateful, whether we'd all be like, oh, yeah, 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.840 well that's that's incitement to violence, that someone should do 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.280 something about that. No, just if the person with the 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.959 protected attribute. And how many times have we've seen certain 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:51.080 people from certain backgrounds are very, very litigious, they can. 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:56.840 Find reasonable, exactly reasonable. 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:57.080 He is reasonable. 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:04.360 Whether you incite hatred or make physical threats. Now, physical threats, 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:09.160 that's a pretty clear cut. But inciting hatred, how is 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.320 anyone supposed to know what will incite hatred in some 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.240 whack jobs that could read their Facebook? 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.840 And I know we talked last week about twenty three 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.880 and Me, which is going bankrupt and they're selling off 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.040 all the DNA, but I said I'd never do it. 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:23.640 But I think maybe it's time I spat in the 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.400 tube and discover that I do belong to some ethnic 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.560 minority somewhere on the other side of the world, and 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:29.040 then I have to. 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:29.400 Go at this. 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.440 I finally have my free speech right. What we're talking 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.280 about different applications of the lore depending on whether you're 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.040 gay or you're straight, or you black or you're brown 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.880 or your white, et cetera. They tried to do this 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.640 in the UK very recently. The Sentencing Council, which is 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.640 basically the advisory body that tells judges how they should 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:53.440 hand down their sentences in the UK, was about to 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.640 bring in a whole bunch of rules this week that 0:14:55.760 --> 0:15:00.880 said if you are from an ethnic, cultural or faith minority, 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.080 or you're under twenty five, or you're. 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.200 A woman, you need a pre sentencing. 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:10.000 Report before a judge hands down a sentence. Here's a 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:14.080 report from gb News explaining exactly what this would do. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:20.240 Judges we pre sensing reports weren't necessary and if someone 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.080 is of ethnic, cultural or faith minority, or a young 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.680 person under twenty five, or a woman or a pregnant woman, 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.640 there will get a special sensing report. Normally, those pre 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.360 sensing reports do mean that the sentences is mitigated, that 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.320 time is taken off for a jail term for example. 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.840 I'm glad that they differentiate between women and pregnant women, 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.040 because of course they're just completely different classes of people. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.280 But the idea here is that a pre sentencing report 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.880 is done by an independent bureaucrat essentially and handed to 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.760 the court, which goes into the life history of this 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.920 person and basically speaks to why there are mitigating circumstances 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.920 against whatever sentence might be handed out. And so what 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.560 the Sentencing Council was saying is that if you come 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.400 from a minority religion, or you're a woman, or you're young, 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.160 or you come from an ethnic minority, that that is 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.240 somehow mitigating circumstance against the crime you committed, and so 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.800 you should be given a softer sentence. And of course 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.040 who's not included in that White people and men, So 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.840 presumably you get a harsher sentence because you don't happen 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:25.560 to belong to a minority. 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:26.680 So the key is Starma. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.720 Government, as you can imagine, took one look at this 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:32.160 and said, hang on a minute, this doesn't quite make sense. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.040 This was Keir Starma last week. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.360 I'm disappointed in less response. And the Lord Chance is 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:43.160 obviously continuing to engage on this, and we're considering our response, 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.840 and you know, all options are on the table, but 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.080 I am disappointed at this outcome. 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.280 Now, all options on the table was emergency legislation that 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.400 the government was threatening to put through that would. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:55.640 Stop this in its track. 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.640 So the Sentencing Council has now overnight said we're going 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.160 to step back from this. We're going to delay it, 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.439 they say, in terms of bringing in these new rules. 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.399 And you know, it's one thing to say they're going 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:07.040 to delay it, but. 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.400 Liz, the fact that it was even a thing in. 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.040 The first place, the idea that they would and we've 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.679 done it here in Australia with the Aboriginal people in 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.639 some jurisdictions. But we say that because you belong to 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.520 some sort of minority group, that you deserve to have 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:22.840 a lighter sentence than someone who doesn't. 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:24.359 Why And in. 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:28.400 This case we're talking about convicted felons. These is the 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:32.800 Sentencing Council of England and Wales. They are a NONDA 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:37.800 departmental public body, otherwise known as a faithless bureaucracy. And 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.919 they literally just announced that this is what they were doing, 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:47.439 that everyone would get lighter sentencing than white males, that 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.160 everybody else would get these little reports to the judge 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.960 with relative sob stories being like, well, they're just so 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.399 you can really understand why this person has committed the 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.040 crime and why they shouldn't have to do the time 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:02.920 that they would otherwise. 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.720 Do except for white men. 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:09.080 Specifically, this was literally targeting them. 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.520 Everybody else you get not a free. 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.280 Pass, but a lie to sentence if you're a white male, 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.959 harsher sentencing for you. There was no other way to 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.919 read this announcement, and so confident. 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:25.520 Were they that this wouldn't be a problem, they just 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.280 announced that it was happening. And I can't believe we're 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:30.520 actually giving kids. 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.280 Starba some credit for one, because I would have thought 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.720 that he would have just filibusted his way through it 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.239 and been like, yes, well these minority. 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:45.119 Groups and they its very sensible. Moderately is not. This 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.000 is fantastic, And frankly, as a black lesbian, I find 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.919 no problem with these laws whatsoever. But I think you 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:56.399 came close to to you, didn't you quite? There was 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.520 an outrageous element in these laws because it talked about, 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.160 as you say, transgender individuals, you know, gay people, cultural 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:08.920 religious minorities, young offenders, women, and pregnant women. What about 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:09.520 pregnant men. 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:12.280 It's a good point. 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.600 Have we learned nothing the past three years? So we 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.080 learned nothing the past few years. The men can get 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.760 pregnant two and they would be vulnerable under these new 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:27.240 guidelines to the same penalties of the criminal justice system 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.080 as every other run of the mill, straight white male. 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:32.320 That is the real disgrace here, and I can't believe 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.119 that no one has picked up on it. 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.680 Well, it's obviously transferred to it's transphobic what they were trying. 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.800 It's very transfer But how is this even the case? 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:42.080 I mean, I thought we were all meant to be 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:43.200 equal under the law. 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.200 But how do these Surely we haven't. But if you are, 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:48.920 if you're a defendant in these cases, or you're convicted, 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.639 surely your lawyer makes that submission. Surely there are there 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:57.040 are submissions for sentencing before any judge sentences anything, surely 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.000 or are they just saying that the state should intercede 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:01.720 on behalf of that? 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:06.080 And that's that's the defendants of these precisings pre sentencing, 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.320 so that thorts. It's just done by someone who's independent, 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:11.960 and so they should be given more interest. 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:13.840 So presumed like if a pregnant woman, like in all 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:15.960 serious it does, if a pregnant woman is on the stand, 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.879 obviously you would say, ah, your on a I'm pregnant, 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:23.280 please don't send me to supermax. And then the judge 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.360 presumably would say, okay, that's pretty. That's good to know. Thanks, 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:30.000 that's good inform, that's good intt. This person was very poor. 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.920 They stole packet of biscuits because they couldn't afford to eat. 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:36.760 Because they're Irish. They're by people. By the way, can 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.280 I just say talking about next the bloody freend I 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.399 hate the French. It should be if there was, If 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.199 there were, if this apply everybody except the French, I 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.800 would endorse it wholeheartedly. I know need be made to 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:51.960 suffer for what they've done. I know, but I would 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:53.760 just like to point out, and I've been waiting to 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:56.359 do this for a very very long time. You know, 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.959 the first, you know, the first people who the evil 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:04.240 British Empire colonized, it was the Irish. It was the Irish, 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.399 my people. So I am actually the first. 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.280