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Speaker 1: Appoche production.

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Speaker 2: On Sunday, the twenty fifth of June twenty seventeen, Jawn

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Speaker 2: Jessper Jensen, known to everyone as Jasper, vanished in Perth,

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Speaker 2: Western Australia. Two days before he vanished, Jessper phoned his

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Speaker 2: daughter sounding distressed about his bank accounts. By the Sunday

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Speaker 2: he was gone.

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Speaker 1: The sixty eight year old has disappeared without a trace.

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Speaker 2: When his daughter Bell arrived at Jessper's home that day,

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Speaker 2: what she found raised immediate alarm. Blood all over the floor.

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Speaker 2: Two days later, Jessper's car turns up over an hour

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Speaker 2: away at the Lancelom Beach Hotel with no trace of

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Speaker 2: blood inside.

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Speaker 3: The discovery of John Jensen's car outside the Lancelom Beach

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Speaker 3: Hotel is a big breakthrough in the police for the

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Speaker 3: missing Ocean reef grandfather.

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Speaker 2: In the middle of the West Australian winter. Police formed

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Speaker 2: a view that Jesper had driven to Lanceln to take

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Speaker 2: his own life, But the details don't sit right. If

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Speaker 2: Jesper was injured at home, how does his car turn

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Speaker 2: up clean? Where are the signs you would expect to

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Speaker 2: see if a wounded man had driven that distance? Where

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Speaker 2: were Jesper's glasses, where were his shoes? And why were

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Speaker 2: the early assumptions allowed to shape the theory so quickly.

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Speaker 2: In this episode of The Missing Matter, Sally speaks with

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Speaker 2: one of Jasper's daughter's Bell. They walked through the timeline

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Speaker 2: piece by piece, examine what was reported, what was recorded,

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Speaker 2: and what was missed. We'll ask why the clean car

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Speaker 2: seems to contradict scene at the house. We'll look at

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Speaker 2: why those who knew Jasper best are certain he wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have left his grandchildren. And we'll ask the question that

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Speaker 2: has hoved over this case for years, why did the

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Speaker 2: first explanation become the only explanation as on The family

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Speaker 2: is still searching for answers and it's torn them apart.

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Speaker 2: This is the Missing Matter, Jasper Matters.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to The Missing Matter.

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Speaker 4: Bell.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me.

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Speaker 4: Thank you very much for having me sale. It's absolute pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely And we've been friends for a while now, haven't

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Speaker 1: we on social media, have been chatting for a few years,

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of nice to sit down and have

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Speaker 1: a proper chat.

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Speaker 4: It certainly is. Yeah, So there's.

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Speaker 1: Been a lot going on in your world for quite

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Speaker 1: a long time. Your dad has been missing, it's the

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Speaker 1: twenty fifth of June twenty seventeen. Can you take us

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Speaker 1: back to the beginning, your dad growing up in Copenhagen

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Speaker 1: in Denmark and moving to Australia when he was just seventeen. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Look, look, he actually didn't talk a lot about about

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Speaker 5: his past growing up, and I think that was a

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Speaker 5: few reasons for that.

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Speaker 4: But from what I gather is he didn't have the

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Speaker 4: best relationships with his parents.

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Speaker 5: But what I do know is he decided to well,

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Speaker 5: first of all, go into the army for a little

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Speaker 5: while with his friend, but then that didn't last too

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Speaker 5: long and decided to get away from the snow and

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Speaker 5: come to Sanny, Australia. So yeah, jump to the chance

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Speaker 5: to immigrate over here and the rest is history.

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Speaker 1: And so Jessper met your mum Jerry, And how did

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Speaker 1: they meet.

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Speaker 5: Well, Dad tells me a funny story when he came

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Speaker 5: over here because he wasn't really connected to any particular area,

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Speaker 5: so he pulls out a map, shut his eyes and

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Speaker 5: literally put his finger on the map and landed in Scarborough.

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Speaker 5: So that's where my mum lived. And when they met there,

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Speaker 5: she was this little petite, surfy chick. You know, compared

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Speaker 5: to my giant father, they just immediately fell in love

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Speaker 5: and the rest, Yeah, it was match made in heaven fate.

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Speaker 1: They would call that, I reckon just put their finger

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Speaker 1: on the map and I met my wife. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: how lovely. I love those stories. So you are one

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Speaker 1: of two of Jasper's daughters, can you just share with

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Speaker 1: us some memories that really captures who your dad was.

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Speaker 5: He was to me, he was a very quirky, fun

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Speaker 5: loving dad. He enjoyed the simple things in life. You know,

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Speaker 5: he didn't want for March. We didn't want for March

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Speaker 5: because we were loved. He didn't take things too serious,

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Speaker 5: and he would just constantly make jokes.

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Speaker 4: I remember a lot.

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Speaker 5: We'd have a roast dinner every Friday night, and you know,

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Speaker 5: without fail, he'd asked me, do.

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Speaker 4: You want a leg or a wing?

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Speaker 5: BINDI, you know, and he put his armor out like

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Speaker 5: a wing and kicked me it under the table with

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Speaker 5: his leg and Dad, I just want to wing. You

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Speaker 5: know that. You know he thought it was hilarious, and

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Speaker 5: you know it was funny. We just enjoyed the simple things.

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Speaker 5: And you know, after dinner we'd get some ice cream

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Speaker 5: and instead of getting balls, out like normal people. We'd

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Speaker 5: get the whole tub and put it in front of

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Speaker 5: us and we'd have one spoon each in each caller

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Speaker 5: and we'd have a spoon fin every time. And it

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Speaker 5: was just the funny things, you know, the simple things.

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Speaker 1: And it's nice, the nice memories to have, aren't they.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, I know you've described him as being very hard working,

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Speaker 1: and he built your family home. That's impressive. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: so what values do you think he instilled in you

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Speaker 1: as you were growing up.

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Speaker 5: Look, he never expected perfection. He never expected, you know,

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Speaker 5: me to get a's and things like that. But he

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Speaker 5: always encouraged me to do the best you can. And

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Speaker 5: he always instilled to be kind, treat others the way

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Speaker 5: you want to be treated. But also drilled into me

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Speaker 5: work hard and you got to pay off your mortgage.

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Speaker 4: You know that was a big.

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Speaker 5: Thing for him, and having that security and looking after

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Speaker 5: his family.

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Speaker 4: And also just do what you love doing. Just make

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Speaker 4: sure you do what you love doing. Always turn off

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Speaker 4: the lights. I remember always.

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Speaker 5: Saying he's got to save electricity.

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Speaker 4: I do that now, And it's not like he's like mom.

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Speaker 1: And he encouraged you to play the piano sounds like

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Speaker 1: that was a pretty special bond for you guys.

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Speaker 5: It really was like he had his little workout equipment

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Speaker 5: in my piano room and you know he just listened

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Speaker 5: to me, practiced for hours, and it was just a

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Speaker 5: really a strong bond. You know. It took me to

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Speaker 5: every lesson, he took me to all of my competitions,

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Speaker 5: and it was just something special that we had together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and music is quite a powerful thought, I think

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Speaker 1: for me personally, even in my mom's case. With my mum,

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Speaker 1: and every time I hear a song, I instantly think

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Speaker 1: of her. You have you got any special songs that

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Speaker 1: you played on the piano that were a favorite of

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Speaker 1: yours and his?

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Speaker 4: Oh, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 5: There's quite a few, but the one that stands out

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Speaker 5: is Walking in Memphis by Mark Cohen.

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Speaker 4: And I remember learning that one for my first.

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Speaker 5: Ever competition and he was just so proud, Like when

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Speaker 5: I went to the water room stead for I was nervous.

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Speaker 5: I was twelve years old and you know, didn't know

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Speaker 5: what to expect, had to wait.

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Speaker 4: To be thirty two. It was literally the.

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Speaker 5: Last one playing on the day, and you know, playing

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Speaker 5: a first time playing on a baby grand piano and

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Speaker 5: all that, but there he was ear to hear, and

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Speaker 5: I ended up when they called out the winners. You know,

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Speaker 5: I got highly commended and Dad's like, it's you. You

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Speaker 5: get up, get up with me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, oh my gosh, like I just yeah.

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Speaker 5: So that's just a memory that I'll always hold you

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Speaker 5: close to my heart.

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Speaker 1: And that song would play very important part of your life.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure it really doesn't. It seems to come on

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Speaker 4: whenever I need to hear it the most.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know, that's probably your dad telling you, yes,

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Speaker 1: need a hug. Yeah, And so I am sad to

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Speaker 1: know that your mum Jerry Pastouen February twenty eleven, you

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Speaker 1: received a call from me sister telling you that your

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Speaker 1: mum was missing. That would have been really frightening moment

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Speaker 1: for you. Can you tell us about that day?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that quickly went from being the best day of

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Speaker 5: my life to definitely the worst day of my life

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Speaker 5: in the split second that phone call changed everything. Only

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Speaker 5: moments before that, i'd actually taken a pregnancy desk and

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Speaker 5: we'd actually just found out we were going to be

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Speaker 5: expecting our first child. And then a few minutes later

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Speaker 5: I get a call so that Mom's missing. I just remember, look,

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Speaker 5: my world stopped. I looked at my husband, what.

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Speaker 4: Do you mean missing? Like, she didn't go out.

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Speaker 5: She didn't you know, maybe went to the neighbor's house

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Speaker 5: and stuff like that, but.

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Speaker 4: You know, she wasn't sort of going out in the

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Speaker 4: town or anything.

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Speaker 5: So I was like, okay, so I just think lot logically,

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Speaker 5: I just got to get over there and see.

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Speaker 4: Dad said what that was going on?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So driving over there was tricky, to say the least,

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Speaker 5: because you start, you know, mind wanders, and I started

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Speaker 5: looking down the alley way to see if she'd fallen

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Speaker 5: over or you know, stupid things. You don't know what

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Speaker 5: what's happened. I get to Dad's and I'm like, what

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Speaker 5: do you mean Mum's missy? You know, you could tell

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Speaker 5: her've been up all night. He's like, she can't find her.

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Speaker 5: I don't know where she is. Said, well, what's happened?

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Speaker 5: He goes, well, we had our ROAs dinner last night,

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Speaker 5: happy as, and you know, then we joked about me

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Speaker 5: do all the dishes and which I didn't do, and

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Speaker 5: then she did the dishes and then went and played

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Speaker 5: on the computer. And then I just froze and I

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Speaker 5: just ran into the bathroom where the computer was, and

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Speaker 5: there she was. So she was so small, she'd the

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Speaker 5: way she'd fallen down, she had a massive heart attack,

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Speaker 5: and the way she'd fallen down. Yeah, he just didn't

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Speaker 5: see her. So when he went and turned the light

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Speaker 5: off in the bathroom, he didn't think to look around,

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Speaker 5: didn't think she was in there. So I was going

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Speaker 5: to the neighbor's house. And so that was that moment.

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Speaker 5: And she was only fifty two. She was very young.

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Speaker 1: That's very young. I'm so sorry that that's a lot.

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Speaker 1: How was your dad and how did that affect him?

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Speaker 4: Well, it was shocking for both of us.

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Speaker 5: But luckily we actually sort of experienced it together in

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Speaker 5: a way because we could talk about it, you know,

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Speaker 5: and and then instantly you just go throughto this little

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Speaker 5: bubble of okay. You know all friends and family and

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Speaker 5: know they will surround you, and you spend time just

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Speaker 5: dealing with it. But that's important. Time like that two

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Speaker 5: weeks whatever leading up to the funeral. You know, you

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Speaker 5: have time to plan, you have time to reminisce, you

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Speaker 5: have time to go through photos, you have time to

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Speaker 5: I wrote the eulogy so I was able to actually

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Speaker 5: honor my mum, you know, and I think that's really important,

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Speaker 5: and that's a way of being able to move on.

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Speaker 5: And Dad was a strong, very fun loving guy, and

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Speaker 5: I was really proud of the way he was able

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Speaker 5: to move on and look into the future and we

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Speaker 5: have many more wonderful years to follow when you know,

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Speaker 5: I had children and he went on golfing holidays and stuff.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, we dealt with it, you know, but we

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Speaker 5: moved on.

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Speaker 1: That would have been a very hard time in life.

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Speaker 1: I would have imagined, how old were you then, Belle.

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Speaker 5: Oh gosh, how old would I be? Good question? She

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Speaker 5: died in twenty eleven. I was nineteen eighty babies, but yeah,

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Speaker 5: so she never got to meet my children exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so that would have been heartbreaking too. Right, You've

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Speaker 1: just found out that you're pregnant, that you want to

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Speaker 1: go and excitedly tell your mum and dad that you're

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Speaker 1: pregnant about to have a baby, and you were not

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Speaker 1: that blow. I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we lost that baby, but I don't think that

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Speaker 5: was meant to be. I think that was not the

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Speaker 5: right time to bring a child into the world. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: so I think after experience all of that, and then

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Speaker 5: there was a phase where I was like, Okay, this

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Speaker 5: wasn't the right time, you know, but my time came.

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Speaker 4: We know that I've got two beautiful children now.

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Speaker 5: So my son is almost Yeah, he's definitely looking a

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Speaker 5: lot like his granddad, tall and slim, and I look

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Speaker 5: at him now, going wow, Granddad would be.

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Speaker 4: So proud of you.

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Speaker 1: So you said, talking about the kids, you know, your

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Speaker 1: dad becoming a grandfather changed him.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: His house in Ocean Reef was just up the road

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Speaker 5: from this little park, and I remember like i'ld go

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Speaker 5: over there every weekend as much as I could. We'd

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Speaker 5: walk down the park and he'd be hand in hand

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Speaker 5: with my boy. He was four when he went missing,

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Speaker 5: but they'd be hand in hand and literally, oh, just

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Speaker 5: a little dead end because he was a little blondie,

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Speaker 5: just like Granddad, and they'd be, you know, just looking

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Speaker 5: up at each other and giggling away, and it was

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Speaker 5: just such a special bond, it really was. And then

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Speaker 5: when I find out I had break up with a daughter,

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Speaker 5: I didn't tell everyone else it was a girl except Dad.

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Speaker 5: And he got to have that special moment knowing that

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Speaker 5: he was going to have a little granddaughter, and yeah,

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Speaker 5: he just loved young children.

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Speaker 4: It reminded him of when I was younger, and.

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Speaker 5: He could, you know, use his sense of humor to

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Speaker 5: crack jokes and make them laugh.

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Speaker 1: So with regards to your family, what sort of support

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Speaker 1: have you had and what's that been.

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Speaker 4: Like for you?

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Speaker 5: I think because of the circumstances, it's not been as

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Speaker 5: conducive to having the entire family support, I guess over. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: that's a tricky one to answer. My main support base

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Speaker 5: has been my husband.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Without him, I wouldn't have been able to go through

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Speaker 5: this journey and I probably wouldn't be to this day.

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Speaker 1: So with Jasper's family, are they all over in Denmark? Like,

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Speaker 1: does he have siblings? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I never met them.

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Speaker 5: I did know he was one of three, so we

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Speaker 5: had an older brother and a younger sister. And it

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Speaker 5: was only actually after when he went missing, that I'd

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Speaker 5: found out that my mum less the Little Cotton Sults,

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Speaker 5: had actually been keeping in contact and writing to my

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Speaker 5: auntie and letting her know about us. So she'd actually

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Speaker 5: reached out after the fact and we connected on Facebook.

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Speaker 5: So the fact that I was actually able to get

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Speaker 5: a relationship up with my auntie and then finding out

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Speaker 5: I've got cousins and very similar age to me, and

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Speaker 5: they've got you and very similar age, And it just

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Speaker 5: opened up my little world. And I just pray one

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Speaker 5: day that I get the opportunity to go there and

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Speaker 5: actually meet them and get to know a part of

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Speaker 5: you know, his background and his family.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is hard when the world's apart, literally,

288
00:14:21,841 --> 00:14:24,241
Speaker 1: aren't they Like that is a very long way away,

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00:14:24,361 --> 00:14:29,201
Speaker 1: so hard to keep that connection happening. And you have

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Speaker 1: a sister. What was your relationship prior to your dad

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Speaker 1: going missing? Liker?

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Speaker 5: Look, it was always a tumultuous arras but it was

293
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Speaker 5: never never easy.

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Speaker 1: You've said that you're certain that your father would never

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Speaker 1: have left his grown children, particularly intentionally. Can you share

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Speaker 1: with us while you believe that so strongly?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, Look, it was obvious how much he adored them,

299
00:14:54,801 --> 00:14:56,961
Speaker 5: like and for me that matter, you know, we had

300
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Speaker 5: such a special close bond. But putting all that aside,

301
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Speaker 5: you know, it was my own thorough investigations where I

302
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Speaker 5: kept discovering all these red flags and lies and unanswered

303
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Speaker 5: questions that I had to I really looked at the

304
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Speaker 5: situation and go hang on a minute, Is this a coincidence?

305
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Speaker 5: It can't be, and it just all it all told

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Speaker 5: me that, and I knew that it was my greatest

307
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Speaker 5: fear that David had met with our play.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, let's chat about what happened on the

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Speaker 1: Friday before his disappearance when he called you and he

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Speaker 1: was distressed about his bank accounts.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, leading up to this point, I could tell

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00:15:38,361 --> 00:15:42,201
Speaker 5: he was getting more and more I guess suspicious about

313
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Speaker 5: what was going on because Person B was sort of

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Speaker 5: controlling him by ways of sort of limiting access. So

315
00:15:49,001 --> 00:15:51,601
Speaker 5: he actually took upon himself to actually walk to the

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Speaker 5: local ATM on that Friday afternoon, just so I think,

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Speaker 5: just too get a grasp of where things were at.

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Speaker 5: And unfortunately that did confirm his worst nightmare because he

319
00:16:00,441 --> 00:16:03,601
Speaker 5: should have had tens of thousands in there, and there

320
00:16:03,641 --> 00:16:06,721
Speaker 5: was only about twelve thousand left. So when I.

321
00:16:06,681 --> 00:16:09,641
Speaker 4: Spoke to him, he said, can you pop in please?

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Speaker 5: And I got there, he was holding the ATM slip

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Speaker 5: in his hand and he's hid person BEES to stolen

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Speaker 5: all my money.

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Speaker 4: And I could tell that.

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Speaker 5: I had a conversation later that evening, and that's only

327
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Speaker 5: because I got a hold of his telephone records and

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Speaker 5: two days later he's gone.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So he actually said person B had taken the money.

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Speaker 4: He did. Yeah, and what was.

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Speaker 1: Supposed to happen on that day? Do you know what

332
00:16:38,641 --> 00:16:40,401
Speaker 1: bees movements were?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Well, basically Dad used to go out to lunch, you know,

335
00:16:43,321 --> 00:16:45,641
Speaker 5: all the time, quite regularly with it with his golfing

336
00:16:45,681 --> 00:16:48,681
Speaker 5: friends who we saw that final Sunday, and a lot

337
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Speaker 5: of the times I would be the one taking them

338
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Speaker 5: and I had them over my house. For some reason,

339
00:16:52,601 --> 00:16:57,561
Speaker 5: his particular lunch was arranged. Person B was taking him.

340
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Speaker 5: So I ran Daud on the way home. I'm dropping

341
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Speaker 5: my kids off at Grandma's and he goes, hey, why

342
00:17:02,881 --> 00:17:03,641
Speaker 5: don't you come along?

343
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Speaker 4: And I thought, you know what, why not?

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Speaker 1: You know?

345
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Speaker 5: And I'm so glad I did because that was the

346
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Speaker 5: last time I ended up seeing him.

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Speaker 1: Can you walk us through what you saw when you

348
00:17:14,521 --> 00:17:15,600
Speaker 1: arrived at your dad's home.

349
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Speaker 5: So the Sunday it was where we went out to lunch.

350
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Speaker 5: It was the following day on the Monday, I got

351
00:17:21,001 --> 00:17:23,321
Speaker 5: a text. But I was sitting there to us some

352
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:26,121
Speaker 5: work from home. At about eight thirty five, I got

353
00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 5: a text, iying, that's you know, can you go around

354
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,081
Speaker 5: to dad's apart with garage doors.

355
00:17:30,761 --> 00:17:32,960
Speaker 4: Open, and I'm like, what you know?

356
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,440
Speaker 5: And I realized later that she'd actually been sent to

357
00:17:35,521 --> 00:17:38,041
Speaker 5: text a couple of hours earlier from my neighbor and

358
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Speaker 5: number one white one year go over and why you

359
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:41,960
Speaker 5: had surgery?

360
00:17:42,041 --> 00:17:43,321
Speaker 4: But why did you wait a couple of hours to

361
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:43,880
Speaker 4: let me know?

362
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 5: So it was dark by the time I went around there,

363
00:17:46,921 --> 00:17:49,801
Speaker 5: and yeah, the neighbor was standing out the front, and

364
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 5: I said, can you come in with me, because you know,

365
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 5: I'm a bit nervous about going into my own.

366
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I walked in and when.

367
00:17:56,201 --> 00:18:00,041
Speaker 5: I just saw his blood, but it was the way

368
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,241
Speaker 5: it was concentrated to one area of the child area

369
00:18:03,281 --> 00:18:06,360
Speaker 5: of the kitchen, it just nothing made said. And there

370
00:18:06,441 --> 00:18:09,801
Speaker 5: was a smash glass pane on the French doors, and

371
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,840
Speaker 5: at that point, I'm like, someone still in the house.

372
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Speaker 5: I didn't know when I first thing, I did call

373
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Speaker 5: my hubby and yeah, walked out and called the police.

374
00:18:18,201 --> 00:18:21,401
Speaker 5: He called the police for me, and being sort of

375
00:18:21,721 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 5: you know, moved on from from that point, but yeah,

376
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:24,880
Speaker 5: it was.

377
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Speaker 4: It was a very scary time.

378
00:18:28,681 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 1: And so just to wind back and so the people

379
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:33,840
Speaker 1: following along get the gist of the story too, or

380
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,880
Speaker 1: your neighbor noticed that Jessper's garage door was up and

381
00:18:37,921 --> 00:18:40,881
Speaker 1: his car was gone, and then they left the day

382
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 1: and when they came back, the garage door was still

383
00:18:43,921 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 1: up and the car was still not there, which was

384
00:18:45,761 --> 00:18:49,680
Speaker 1: very out of character it was, and the house was

385
00:18:49,761 --> 00:18:51,641
Speaker 1: dark right when you By the time you got there,

386
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:52,920
Speaker 1: there was no lights on you.

387
00:18:54,481 --> 00:18:56,841
Speaker 5: And the door was unlocked, you know, because I went

388
00:18:56,921 --> 00:18:59,360
Speaker 5: to go get the key thinking the door was going

389
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,721
Speaker 5: to be locked, but no, the door was unlocked.

390
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:03,921
Speaker 1: And he would never have gone out and not locked

391
00:19:03,961 --> 00:19:05,841
Speaker 1: the house well his.

392
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 4: While I was there. He's, you know, bit old school.

393
00:19:08,481 --> 00:19:10,721
Speaker 4: You know, he used to keep cash next to his chair.

394
00:19:11,201 --> 00:19:13,201
Speaker 5: Now he always had up to ten thousand dollars worth

395
00:19:13,241 --> 00:19:14,121
Speaker 5: of cash extra chair.

396
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,001
Speaker 4: There's no way he would have just left the house open.

397
00:19:17,321 --> 00:19:19,761
Speaker 5: Because from a distance, before I turned the light on it,

398
00:19:19,761 --> 00:19:22,441
Speaker 5: it just looked like feathers were scattered in the kitchen.

399
00:19:22,441 --> 00:19:25,321
Speaker 5: I know, it sounds so strange, but it was only

400
00:19:25,321 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 5: when I got closer and then put that light on

401
00:19:27,241 --> 00:19:29,201
Speaker 5: and I realized it was blood, and I was like,

402
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 5: what the heck has happened here? And I still to

403
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,281
Speaker 5: this day, I don't know what happened. That scene does

404
00:19:35,441 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 5: not make sense. And there's a lot of people that

405
00:19:38,241 --> 00:19:39,961
Speaker 5: have tried to analyze that. For me, because I was

406
00:19:40,041 --> 00:19:42,121
Speaker 5: lucky enough to get to get the brief, so I've

407
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,200
Speaker 5: got all the photos. But yeah, that it does not

408
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:45,880
Speaker 5: make sense.

409
00:19:47,441 --> 00:19:50,200
Speaker 1: One thing I've noticed and been talking to you and

410
00:19:50,281 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 1: understanding where you're at that you know, not long after

411
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,081
Speaker 1: Jess went missing, you made a huge call to quit

412
00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:58,761
Speaker 1: your job. Bell Can you explain how difficult that time

413
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,881
Speaker 1: for you it was and for your kids and for Darren.

414
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:03,561
Speaker 4: It was so tough.

415
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,801
Speaker 5: I found that I was trying to juggle a really

416
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,360
Speaker 5: different form of grief while dropping my kids off at

417
00:20:10,441 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 5: KINDI streaming with tears, and then having to go to

418
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:18,241
Speaker 5: work face people, and then come home and then try

419
00:20:18,281 --> 00:20:20,120
Speaker 5: to still wrap my head around all this craziness that

420
00:20:20,201 --> 00:20:22,241
Speaker 5: was going on. And it's like, hang on a minute,

421
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 5: I can't do this, Like something's got to change. So

422
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 5: I had to make that decision, and actually working on

423
00:20:27,001 --> 00:20:29,321
Speaker 5: the case became a full time job because I was like,

424
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,201
Speaker 5: no one was listening to me. I can't I can't

425
00:20:32,281 --> 00:20:34,321
Speaker 5: let this just go. I have to be able to

426
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 5: do my own investigating. So and I wanted to protect

427
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,721
Speaker 5: the kids from it because I didn't want They still

428
00:20:38,721 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 5: don't know what's happened to him, and God forbid the

429
00:20:41,481 --> 00:20:44,201
Speaker 5: day they find out. But I had to protect them,

430
00:20:44,241 --> 00:20:46,801
Speaker 5: you know, they were too young, so I wanted to

431
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,441
Speaker 5: be able to at night time be plugged him mum,

432
00:20:50,201 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 5: be there for them, but then also fight, fight and

433
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 5: figure out what the hell's going on here. And you

434
00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:57,761
Speaker 5: know why, I couldn't have done it without my husband

435
00:20:57,761 --> 00:21:01,120
Speaker 5: by the side. And you know, although it's been tough,

436
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 5: you know, it's made us stronger because we can tackle anything.

437
00:21:06,441 --> 00:21:10,121
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's hard, isn't it when you don't have

438
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 1: that support and you don't have people jumping and helping

439
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 1: and you feel like there's something to look at and

440
00:21:15,441 --> 00:21:18,441
Speaker 1: dig further into. I know myself, it's one of those

441
00:21:18,441 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 1: things you just feel you have to do it.

442
00:21:20,801 --> 00:21:21,001
Speaker 4: Yeah.

443
00:21:22,441 --> 00:21:26,360
Speaker 1: So, Jesspa's car was found two days later at Lancelyn

444
00:21:26,481 --> 00:21:29,801
Speaker 1: Beach Hotel. The police believed that your dad had driven

445
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,561
Speaker 1: over an hour there in the middle of winter to

446
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:33,561
Speaker 1: take his own life.

447
00:21:34,761 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 3: The discovery of John Jensen's car outside the Lancelon Beach

448
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 3: Hotel is a big breakthrough in the police search for

449
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,001
Speaker 3: the missing Ocean reef grandfather. The sixty eight year old

450
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 3: hadn't been seen since Sunday after a lunch with friends

451
00:21:49,001 --> 00:21:51,841
Speaker 3: and family, and since then he hasn't touched his mobile

452
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,641
Speaker 3: phone or bank accounts. And his family say that's highly

453
00:21:55,761 --> 00:21:56,601
Speaker 3: out of character.

454
00:21:58,001 --> 00:22:01,001
Speaker 1: What about that version of events? Doesn't add up for you?

455
00:22:02,241 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 5: Nothing, nothing at all adds up. It was alleged to

456
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,561
Speaker 5: cut his heel of his foot on the padel of

457
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,001
Speaker 5: the glass door, so we had a French doors. He's

458
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,801
Speaker 5: cut that in frustration and then managed to clean it

459
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,041
Speaker 5: up enough to then.

460
00:22:17,001 --> 00:22:19,721
Speaker 4: Go drive an hour in seventeen and go kill himself.

461
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: So were they saying the blood in the kitchen was

462
00:22:21,721 --> 00:22:23,481
Speaker 1: from him cutting his heel.

463
00:22:23,721 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 5: Yes, because you could tell that it was footprints. There was,

464
00:22:26,521 --> 00:22:29,041
Speaker 5: you know, but as I said, it didn't make sense.

465
00:22:29,041 --> 00:22:31,521
Speaker 5: But you could tell something there was an injury, you know,

466
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,881
Speaker 5: he'd be obviously walked around, but trying to explain if

467
00:22:34,921 --> 00:22:36,521
Speaker 5: you look at even the position in the direction of

468
00:22:36,561 --> 00:22:39,201
Speaker 5: the travel. It was even hard to tell initially which

469
00:22:39,201 --> 00:22:41,241
Speaker 5: foot it was because even my husband.

470
00:22:41,001 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 4: I was there with the first investigators, they were like, oh.

471
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 5: It must be his left foot because there was a

472
00:22:45,721 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 5: particular slipmark.

473
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,241
Speaker 4: But hang on, to be over here.

474
00:22:48,321 --> 00:22:51,361
Speaker 5: It has to be the right foot because otherwise it'd

475
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,801
Speaker 5: be morphing into the wall. I mean, it's difficult to explain,

476
00:22:54,201 --> 00:22:57,561
Speaker 5: but it did not make sense, you know. And then

477
00:22:57,681 --> 00:23:00,561
Speaker 5: he was on anti coagulant medications, so that would have

478
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,561
Speaker 5: meant more excessive bleeding. So somehow he's managed to stop

479
00:23:03,561 --> 00:23:06,681
Speaker 5: the bleeding one hand because his right hand is still

480
00:23:06,681 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 5: in a brace.

481
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: Why was his hand in a brace?

482
00:23:09,921 --> 00:23:11,921
Speaker 5: So, you know, before he went missing, I was seeing

483
00:23:11,921 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 5: in June. So the easter prior he fell down the

484
00:23:14,681 --> 00:23:18,041
Speaker 5: stairs at the front of his house. Now there's a

485
00:23:18,041 --> 00:23:21,041
Speaker 5: lot of conjectures about whether or not how much damage

486
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 5: it really was, and in the end it was quite

487
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,961
Speaker 5: significant fractures and there was even the latest report, he goes,

488
00:23:28,041 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 5: it's still really hurting. So when he'd gone back, they went, no,

489
00:23:31,521 --> 00:23:33,521
Speaker 5: you're actually not allowed to drive until I think the

490
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:34,761
Speaker 5: day was late in July.

491
00:23:35,441 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: So that's quite a long time too, Like from Easter

492
00:23:37,801 --> 00:23:41,641
Speaker 1: to June. Yes, that's that's quite Let's go a couple

493
00:23:41,721 --> 00:23:43,481
Speaker 1: of months and he's in a brace still.

494
00:23:43,761 --> 00:23:46,561
Speaker 5: Yes, and he was, and it was still, you know,

495
00:23:46,681 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 5: quite painful, so he wasn't able to I mean, he

496
00:23:48,721 --> 00:23:50,321
Speaker 5: joked about hat know, how's he going to wipe his

497
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 5: bum and stuff like that, being in his right hand.

498
00:23:52,201 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 4: But so how there he is?

499
00:23:54,321 --> 00:23:56,281
Speaker 5: Apparently, you know, there was a mattress sitting in that

500
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,841
Speaker 5: kitchen area with a bloody handprint. So somehow a six

501
00:24:00,921 --> 00:24:03,961
Speaker 5: foot three man who's obviously just fallen over Cutty's pot

502
00:24:04,041 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 5: all over, gotten up onto this mattress, managed to get

503
00:24:07,001 --> 00:24:11,001
Speaker 5: himself up anyway, There's no how he could have stopped

504
00:24:11,001 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 5: the bleeding, especially because there was no shoes.

505
00:24:12,761 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 4: He wasn't wearing any none of his shoes are missing.

506
00:24:15,721 --> 00:24:17,241
Speaker 5: And then there was no blood leading to the car,

507
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,561
Speaker 5: there was no blood and foot well, there was no

508
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,041
Speaker 5: blood when they got to lance.

509
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: Lan, Okay. So there's no blood outside, no or in

510
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,321
Speaker 1: the garage, no.

511
00:24:26,281 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 4: Or even leading to the door. Like literally, it was

512
00:24:29,481 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 4: just this one.

513
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,961
Speaker 5: It was very and that's yeah, it's very odd, very

514
00:24:35,201 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 5: very very odd.

515
00:24:36,681 --> 00:24:38,601
Speaker 1: And how long would it take, like I've said, over

516
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 1: an hour? How long is that?

517
00:24:40,681 --> 00:24:42,521
Speaker 5: Well I think we weren't It out to be an

518
00:24:42,561 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 5: hour and seventeen minutes, okay, And you know the only

519
00:24:46,681 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 5: bit of CCT footage is of him first, you know,

520
00:24:50,241 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 5: driving into that stretch of Lancelin, and they could not

521
00:24:53,681 --> 00:24:57,521
Speaker 5: find any CCT footage they would have matched an hour

522
00:24:57,561 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 5: and seventeen prior leaving Ocean Reef.

523
00:24:59,481 --> 00:25:00,120
Speaker 4: There was nothing.

524
00:25:00,321 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 5: The only one they found was which we would have

525
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,761
Speaker 5: been at six thirty five, but that had only given

526
00:25:04,761 --> 00:25:07,441
Speaker 5: it for five mint window, which he was so blurry

527
00:25:07,481 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 5: and you couldn't even say it was a camera, let

528
00:25:09,201 --> 00:25:12,401
Speaker 5: alone Dad, So that that was ruled out. And that's why,

529
00:25:12,561 --> 00:25:14,321
Speaker 5: you know, they tried so hard, they think, was to

530
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 5: try and say, you know, yes it was him leaving here,

531
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,241
Speaker 5: and that's him driving here.

532
00:25:18,721 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 4: But you couldn't say that.

533
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 5: And then apparently there's an even footage that should have

534
00:25:22,441 --> 00:25:24,921
Speaker 5: been taken a very white leading him that wasn't shown

535
00:25:25,001 --> 00:25:28,001
Speaker 5: up there, like why you know, and he didn't have

536
00:25:28,041 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 5: his glasses on which he needed for driving.

537
00:25:30,201 --> 00:25:31,161
Speaker 4: They were left at home.

538
00:25:31,921 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 5: There's unknown DNA found in the house and the car,

539
00:25:35,321 --> 00:25:39,721
Speaker 5: all these other points that were dismissed just to say

540
00:25:39,761 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 5: this particularly crazy event happened, but there was no no

541
00:25:43,761 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 5: evidence to say it was.

542
00:25:46,001 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: So did he the glasses that he wears and his

543
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: shoes nowhere to be found, so not at home.

544
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:57,761
Speaker 4: Yeah, that the glasses were at home, along with his wallet, yeah,

545
00:25:58,201 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 4: in the normal.

546
00:25:59,281 --> 00:26:02,521
Speaker 1: Those to drive, Yes, he would. Okay, just interesting to

547
00:26:02,561 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: put the pieces of the puzzle together, isn't it. It's

548
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: it is sorry if this is distressing for you, I

549
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: know that I have to relive it all the time,

550
00:26:11,201 --> 00:26:13,161
Speaker 1: and I just want to pause there and say thank

551
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: you for doing that, because we're here to try and

552
00:26:15,761 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: help you get the word out there. And you know,

553
00:26:19,041 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm always a firm believer as you know, that someone

554
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,561
Speaker 1: somewhere knows something, so absolutely it is important to get

555
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: this information out there for everybody because we need to

556
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,361
Speaker 1: be looking for these things to help you find him.

557
00:26:32,921 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 1: So when you found out by police that they had

558
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: found your dad's car, you called person B to let

559
00:26:38,521 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: her know, and she alerted you that she was already

560
00:26:40,721 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: half way to LANCELN.

561
00:26:42,561 --> 00:26:47,561
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, how odd It baffles me to this day. Basically,

562
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 5: the excuse was that her best friend had a dream

563
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 5: and that he was in a northern direction. So there's

564
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 5: no common sense or rational explanation as to why they

565
00:26:58,201 --> 00:26:59,521
Speaker 5: should have been heading up that way.

566
00:26:59,801 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 4: So I don't really know what else to say on that,

567
00:27:01,761 --> 00:27:02,321
Speaker 4: to be honest.

568
00:27:03,201 --> 00:27:05,681
Speaker 1: And so was she contacted by the police first, Was.

569
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,801
Speaker 5: She well, no, they let me know first that the

570
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 5: vehicle's found.

571
00:27:10,201 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: Oh so she was literally heading there because the friend

572
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: had had a dream.

573
00:27:13,721 --> 00:27:16,801
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly exactly. And then I said, I'll ring her

574
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,961
Speaker 5: and let her know. And when I a friend the

575
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:21,721
Speaker 5: police back and sid slay up there, They're like, no, no,

576
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,001
Speaker 5: she can't because they're like, oh, she's probably going to

577
00:27:24,041 --> 00:27:25,281
Speaker 5: get up there before the police do.

578
00:27:26,041 --> 00:27:27,721
Speaker 4: And I said, I can't stop her. She's already want

579
00:27:27,721 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 4: to wie up there, mate, you know.

580
00:27:29,201 --> 00:27:30,801
Speaker 1: And what was the car situation?

581
00:27:31,001 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: Like?

582
00:27:31,201 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: Was it locked?

583
00:27:32,281 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 5: No, the keys were in the engine and it was unlocked,

584
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 5: but the car wasn't running, okay, but it was unlocked.

585
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,561
Speaker 1: And do we know if there was any DNA in

586
00:27:40,561 --> 00:27:40,921
Speaker 1: the car?

587
00:27:42,041 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 5: There was a DNA in a car, but there was

588
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 5: also including my dad's, but there was unknown DNA in

589
00:27:47,441 --> 00:27:50,241
Speaker 5: the car too, on the steering wheel and the headrest.

590
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,761
Speaker 1: And the police obviously have all that information.

591
00:27:53,281 --> 00:27:54,521
Speaker 4: Yeah, they do, they do.

592
00:27:55,521 --> 00:27:58,241
Speaker 1: And so I know, obviously we didn't want to accuse

593
00:27:58,281 --> 00:28:02,561
Speaker 1: anybody of anything that hasn't been charged with any offense.

594
00:28:04,241 --> 00:28:07,761
Speaker 1: What is situation there with the police with these claims

595
00:28:07,921 --> 00:28:08,761
Speaker 1: about person B.

596
00:28:09,321 --> 00:28:11,881
Speaker 5: So that was the level of the police trying to

597
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 5: address my financial concerns, even though I'd already flagged with

598
00:28:15,921 --> 00:28:18,481
Speaker 5: him that there was a seventy two thousand dollars check

599
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 5: you know in the past. It was back in twenty thirteen,

600
00:28:20,921 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 5: but looked spicious. The handwriting was suspicious and making it worse,

601
00:28:25,241 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 5: it was put through the local post office, so it

602
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 5: wasn't taken to a bank done through thing. So the

603
00:28:33,481 --> 00:28:36,401
Speaker 5: way it happened was that morning before she even knew

604
00:28:36,481 --> 00:28:40,081
Speaker 5: about he was missing, because that night I tried calling

605
00:28:40,241 --> 00:28:43,041
Speaker 5: her husband but he wouldn't answer. So I finally got

606
00:28:43,081 --> 00:28:45,161
Speaker 5: hold of him the next morning and said it was

607
00:28:45,201 --> 00:28:48,121
Speaker 5: I meet you at your dad's house. Okay, I'm met

608
00:28:48,161 --> 00:28:50,721
Speaker 5: in there. It was a thirty second conversation and I said,

609
00:28:50,761 --> 00:28:52,401
Speaker 5: he goes, follow me and we'll.

610
00:28:52,281 --> 00:28:53,201
Speaker 4: Go tell her.

611
00:28:53,841 --> 00:28:56,001
Speaker 5: Anyway, we jumped the car, go to dad's house and

612
00:28:56,201 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 5: first thing she does is beeline to where his recliner.

613
00:28:58,321 --> 00:28:58,601
Speaker 4: She was.

614
00:28:58,641 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 5: I didn't even know where the money was, and it

615
00:29:00,281 --> 00:29:02,721
Speaker 5: was there, but she grabbed this Christmas box and that's

616
00:29:02,721 --> 00:29:05,121
Speaker 5: where it was, and holds up this board.

617
00:29:05,161 --> 00:29:08,041
Speaker 4: Cash and I'm like, what are you doing?

618
00:29:08,521 --> 00:29:10,081
Speaker 5: And she goes, I don't want the cops to steal

619
00:29:10,121 --> 00:29:12,841
Speaker 5: it or take it and okay, but let's just.

620
00:29:12,841 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 4: Calm down for a second.

621
00:29:15,201 --> 00:29:17,561
Speaker 5: And it was really odd, but I let her do it,

622
00:29:17,761 --> 00:29:20,441
Speaker 5: but again that it was all starting to be very,

623
00:29:20,681 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 5: very strange. But the other thing on that note was

624
00:29:24,281 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 5: that the timing of when we had gone to her

625
00:29:26,201 --> 00:29:28,601
Speaker 5: house to tell her that he was actually missing, she

626
00:29:28,641 --> 00:29:31,201
Speaker 5: had actually made a phone call to Dad's best friend

627
00:29:31,921 --> 00:29:34,521
Speaker 5: close to two hours before that, asking where Dad was

628
00:29:34,561 --> 00:29:37,801
Speaker 5: if he knew he knew where Dad was, And I

629
00:29:37,801 --> 00:29:39,761
Speaker 5: find that really odd because at that point he didn't.

630
00:29:39,841 --> 00:29:42,481
Speaker 5: She didn't know the outcome of why his garage door

631
00:29:42,521 --> 00:29:47,201
Speaker 5: was up. So yeah, there's just a lot of little

632
00:29:47,281 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 5: points you look all the way and go to hang,

633
00:29:49,401 --> 00:29:50,241
Speaker 5: something's not right here.

634
00:29:51,321 --> 00:29:54,561
Speaker 1: And I've read too that person B had said on

635
00:29:54,681 --> 00:29:59,841
Speaker 1: her statements in two separate occasions that your dad was suicidal.

636
00:30:00,321 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 5: Like literally the whole statement was based around that. It

637
00:30:04,281 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 5: actually basically for sick.

638
00:30:05,801 --> 00:30:08,601
Speaker 1: And I also read Bell two that you said that

639
00:30:08,601 --> 00:30:10,681
Speaker 1: the police had based their theory on the first thing

640
00:30:10,681 --> 00:30:14,041
Speaker 1: that they were told and that shaped the entire investigation.

641
00:30:15,001 --> 00:30:17,721
Speaker 1: And I remember hearing you say that your brother in

642
00:30:17,801 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: law had told the police that Jasper was suicidal and

643
00:30:21,521 --> 00:30:24,361
Speaker 1: that then ran through the entire case. And something I

644
00:30:24,361 --> 00:30:27,041
Speaker 1: want to bring to the attention of everyone listening in

645
00:30:27,081 --> 00:30:31,081
Speaker 1: these cases is that your words matter, right, what you

646
00:30:31,121 --> 00:30:34,921
Speaker 1: say is really important and it can have a diabolical

647
00:30:34,961 --> 00:30:38,801
Speaker 1: effect on a missing person's case. How did that affect you?

648
00:30:39,321 --> 00:30:42,681
Speaker 5: Oh, I still to this day won't forget that phone

649
00:30:42,721 --> 00:30:47,961
Speaker 5: call because to know that when I spoke to him

650
00:30:48,201 --> 00:30:51,321
Speaker 5: and then he goes straight away, Oh, I told them

651
00:30:51,761 --> 00:30:53,521
Speaker 5: that it was suicide.

652
00:30:53,521 --> 00:30:55,601
Speaker 4: He was suicided. And I was like, what I said,

653
00:30:55,641 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 4: Why did you say that?

654
00:30:56,561 --> 00:30:59,001
Speaker 5: I remember standing in the kitchen at that moment, and

655
00:30:59,001 --> 00:31:00,281
Speaker 5: then he literally yelled at me.

656
00:31:00,441 --> 00:31:01,961
Speaker 4: He lelled down the phone, Why I had you done

657
00:31:02,001 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 4: him something? And got anger me. I'm like, calm down there,

658
00:31:05,361 --> 00:31:07,641
Speaker 4: what's going on here? You know? And at that point

659
00:31:07,761 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 4: I was just in shock. What I'm looking at my

660
00:31:10,041 --> 00:31:11,601
Speaker 4: husband and he's like, what the heck?

661
00:31:11,681 --> 00:31:14,601
Speaker 5: You know? But I didn't quite realize at that point

662
00:31:15,561 --> 00:31:18,321
Speaker 5: what was being said to police and how much it was. Yeah,

663
00:31:18,401 --> 00:31:20,241
Speaker 5: this is this and some of the things he'd said

664
00:31:20,841 --> 00:31:25,921
Speaker 5: were just horrendous lies, and those lies turned into gospel

665
00:31:26,001 --> 00:31:28,881
Speaker 5: or they actually formed part of what was even in

666
00:31:28,921 --> 00:31:33,081
Speaker 5: the Corndage report. I just I'm baffled you know, I'm

667
00:31:33,121 --> 00:31:33,681
Speaker 5: just baffled.

668
00:31:34,441 --> 00:31:37,561
Speaker 1: Let's just go back to that check that you mentioned before.

669
00:31:37,641 --> 00:31:40,121
Speaker 1: Was it seventy two or seventy four thousand dollars?

670
00:31:40,441 --> 00:31:43,361
Speaker 5: Well, it was basically two days before this check was

671
00:31:43,401 --> 00:31:48,041
Speaker 5: actually able to be withdrawn from his normal account. There

672
00:31:48,041 --> 00:31:50,521
Speaker 5: had to be there was a transfer from his online

673
00:31:50,641 --> 00:31:53,281
Speaker 5: savings account. Now this was an account that he didn't touch,

674
00:31:53,321 --> 00:31:54,921
Speaker 5: you know, and Dad didn't even have a computer at

675
00:31:54,921 --> 00:31:56,801
Speaker 5: this stage, you know, so he didn't do any online

676
00:31:56,841 --> 00:32:00,241
Speaker 5: transactions or anything like that. He didn't do any internal transfers.

677
00:32:00,241 --> 00:32:02,841
Speaker 5: He would go into a bank, right, he was old school.

678
00:32:03,281 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 4: But yeah, two days.

679
00:32:04,081 --> 00:32:07,121
Speaker 5: Before that check came out, there was seventy four thousand

680
00:32:07,161 --> 00:32:11,841
Speaker 5: dollars that was transferred electronically from his savings account to

681
00:32:12,161 --> 00:32:15,841
Speaker 5: his normal account, and then obviously that made it the

682
00:32:15,881 --> 00:32:18,521
Speaker 5: funds available. Two days later, the seventy two thousand dollars

683
00:32:18,521 --> 00:32:18,921
Speaker 5: came out.

684
00:32:19,761 --> 00:32:21,561
Speaker 1: And do we know who that check was written out to?

685
00:32:22,321 --> 00:32:22,961
Speaker 4: Yeah, person B.

686
00:32:24,201 --> 00:32:27,641
Speaker 1: It was actually written out to her, it was. And

687
00:32:27,721 --> 00:32:30,041
Speaker 1: what did the police say about that, Well.

688
00:32:29,921 --> 00:32:32,041
Speaker 5: They just said, we don't know what agreements were in place.

689
00:32:33,041 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 5: Maybe he just wanted to give her money.

690
00:32:35,161 --> 00:32:38,881
Speaker 1: So in September twenty twenty an inquest into your dad's

691
00:32:38,881 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: disappearance was held in Western Australia. It only went for

692
00:32:42,281 --> 00:32:43,641
Speaker 1: two days. What was the outcome.

693
00:32:44,321 --> 00:32:47,041
Speaker 5: Look, the good thing that came out of that was

694
00:32:47,041 --> 00:32:49,161
Speaker 5: that we got an open finding in the end, okay,

695
00:32:49,201 --> 00:32:52,241
Speaker 5: because although they were trying to put a full stop

696
00:32:52,281 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 5: on his life, which had on my heart, that's all

697
00:32:55,281 --> 00:32:57,281
Speaker 5: I believed this was for. You know, there was no

698
00:32:57,361 --> 00:32:59,281
Speaker 5: evidence premy made it to Lands and so in the

699
00:32:59,401 --> 00:33:02,681
Speaker 5: end I actually walked away sort of going well, they

700
00:33:02,721 --> 00:33:05,321
Speaker 5: actually weren't able to say he died in Lands because

701
00:33:05,321 --> 00:33:08,921
Speaker 5: they initially tried to submit that as his date of death,

702
00:33:09,801 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 5: which would been when the car was found. But because

703
00:33:12,801 --> 00:33:15,001
Speaker 5: we were a hired a barrister and we were able

704
00:33:15,041 --> 00:33:18,361
Speaker 5: to say no, that's you can't prove that. There was

705
00:33:18,361 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 5: no evidence, so it had to be backdated to the

706
00:33:20,521 --> 00:33:22,801
Speaker 5: last day he was seeing which was the Sunday. So

707
00:33:24,041 --> 00:33:27,081
Speaker 5: but it wasn't a positive experience, you know, I wasn't able.

708
00:33:26,841 --> 00:33:28,321
Speaker 4: To read my statement understand.

709
00:33:28,681 --> 00:33:31,561
Speaker 5: I was even referred to as in the reporter's corrosive

710
00:33:31,801 --> 00:33:35,281
Speaker 5: to investigation by a coroner himself. Really and to make

711
00:33:35,321 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 5: a worse person, B was someone to attend However, days

712
00:33:38,561 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 5: literally days prior, she was excused from attending, and I

713
00:33:43,041 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 5: presume that's because she knew I'd hired a barrister to

714
00:33:45,241 --> 00:33:49,681
Speaker 5: actually finally cross examine her and just have her questioned

715
00:33:49,761 --> 00:33:52,801
Speaker 5: under oath. I gave up fighting in the end. I

716
00:33:52,841 --> 00:33:54,801
Speaker 5: was like, surely we can speak to the developer, Surely

717
00:33:54,921 --> 00:33:57,481
Speaker 5: we can do this. But you know, you know how

718
00:33:57,481 --> 00:34:00,921
Speaker 5: hard it is when you get kicked down every step

719
00:34:00,921 --> 00:34:04,121
Speaker 5: of the way, you can't really Yeah, you kind of

720
00:34:04,361 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 5: kind of give up.

721
00:34:05,081 --> 00:34:07,881
Speaker 4: But one thing I'd like to mention is when, because.

722
00:34:07,681 --> 00:34:10,401
Speaker 5: I started to feel like towards before even the report

723
00:34:10,481 --> 00:34:11,121
Speaker 5: was submitted, I.

724
00:34:11,081 --> 00:34:13,201
Speaker 4: Was like, the cops aren't on my side, you know.

725
00:34:13,681 --> 00:34:15,601
Speaker 5: So there was one thing I'd actually picked up in

726
00:34:15,641 --> 00:34:19,321
Speaker 5: the report which I decided to let my barrister cross

727
00:34:19,321 --> 00:34:21,201
Speaker 5: examine the Copper on the stand.

728
00:34:21,841 --> 00:34:23,121
Speaker 4: It was regarding a.

729
00:34:23,001 --> 00:34:25,121
Speaker 5: Form that was filled out and it was a dental form,

730
00:34:25,641 --> 00:34:28,121
Speaker 5: and basically he'd said in the police report, he goes

731
00:34:28,161 --> 00:34:31,641
Speaker 5: oh Jensen completed a primary dental and medical history form

732
00:34:32,001 --> 00:34:35,001
Speaker 5: on the fiace of June twenty seventeen when attending Craigie

733
00:34:35,041 --> 00:34:38,121
Speaker 5: Dental Clinic. In this form completed the month prior to

734
00:34:38,161 --> 00:34:41,881
Speaker 5: his disappearance, he had confirmed that he had depression and

735
00:34:41,961 --> 00:34:43,041
Speaker 5: listened new Ronton.

736
00:34:42,801 --> 00:34:44,161
Speaker 4: As one of the medications he was on.

737
00:34:45,161 --> 00:34:47,761
Speaker 5: Now, they were two big things that they were trying

738
00:34:47,761 --> 00:34:50,721
Speaker 5: to say. Now, Lew Roonton the DP said, Nah, he

739
00:34:50,881 --> 00:34:54,001
Speaker 5: was offered completely went off by May because he was

740
00:34:54,241 --> 00:34:57,281
Speaker 5: weening off during the months, you know, during early twenty seventeen.

741
00:34:57,361 --> 00:34:58,761
Speaker 4: So tick that off.

742
00:34:59,081 --> 00:35:01,881
Speaker 5: He wasn't on that. And the second thing was whether

743
00:35:01,921 --> 00:35:04,041
Speaker 5: he was depressed. Well, his GP in his own was

744
00:35:04,361 --> 00:35:08,521
Speaker 5: said by twin the second twenty seventeen he'd described himself

745
00:35:08,521 --> 00:35:11,561
Speaker 5: as really good and by the third of the third fantastic.

746
00:35:11,881 --> 00:35:15,041
Speaker 5: No further dose who adjustments were made. It displayed no

747
00:35:15,081 --> 00:35:18,881
Speaker 5: signs of depression after January twenty seventeen up to and

748
00:35:18,961 --> 00:35:21,641
Speaker 5: including the presentation on the twenty third of June.

749
00:35:22,801 --> 00:35:23,841
Speaker 4: So why was.

750
00:35:23,801 --> 00:35:26,361
Speaker 5: He trying so hard to try and still say these points?

751
00:35:26,361 --> 00:35:29,321
Speaker 5: And it actually was person B who filled out and

752
00:35:29,361 --> 00:35:32,521
Speaker 5: signed that form. So when that was raised on the stand,

753
00:35:32,641 --> 00:35:35,001
Speaker 5: the death stare that he gave me, I said, if

754
00:35:35,121 --> 00:35:36,161
Speaker 5: LUKZ could kill mat.

755
00:35:39,241 --> 00:35:41,601
Speaker 1: And so, can I ask a personal question and feel

756
00:35:41,601 --> 00:35:44,081
Speaker 1: free not to answer, but can you share with us

757
00:35:44,481 --> 00:35:47,081
Speaker 1: what sort of costs were involved with you hating to

758
00:35:47,121 --> 00:35:49,681
Speaker 1: hire your embarrister at your dad's inquest.

759
00:35:50,441 --> 00:35:52,921
Speaker 5: Oh look, it was close to twenty grand just for

760
00:35:52,961 --> 00:35:56,801
Speaker 5: that day. But put it this way, good couple of

761
00:35:56,921 --> 00:36:00,321
Speaker 5: hundred leading up to just prepping for the inquest. We

762
00:36:00,361 --> 00:36:03,161
Speaker 5: obviously didn't have any money because I wasn't working, but

763
00:36:03,321 --> 00:36:06,401
Speaker 5: we found a lawyer that would represent me, but only

764
00:36:06,441 --> 00:36:08,241
Speaker 5: you know, get paid after the fact, if you know

765
00:36:08,241 --> 00:36:08,641
Speaker 5: what I mean.

766
00:36:08,761 --> 00:36:12,681
Speaker 4: So all up, easy, a couple of hundred thousand.

767
00:36:13,361 --> 00:36:15,561
Speaker 1: It's just another stress, isn't it, Belle Like it is

768
00:36:15,681 --> 00:36:16,841
Speaker 1: another added stress.

769
00:36:17,241 --> 00:36:20,081
Speaker 5: Yeah, And unfortunately that's while I had to use my

770
00:36:20,161 --> 00:36:22,361
Speaker 5: dad's hard earned money because that was, you know, once

771
00:36:22,401 --> 00:36:25,961
Speaker 5: I finally got my distribution from him, you see all

772
00:36:25,961 --> 00:36:28,921
Speaker 5: that that portion of that going to legal phase, and

773
00:36:29,201 --> 00:36:31,841
Speaker 5: it's so destroying. You know, you think all my dad

774
00:36:31,881 --> 00:36:34,481
Speaker 5: would want, would you make us feel comfortable and you know,

775
00:36:34,601 --> 00:36:37,361
Speaker 5: still have the house as a memory and stuff like

776
00:36:37,361 --> 00:36:43,601
Speaker 5: that was always Yeah, it's really it's been really, really typicult.

777
00:36:44,561 --> 00:36:47,321
Speaker 1: Well, I'm very sorry to read that you felt that

778
00:36:47,361 --> 00:36:52,361
Speaker 1: your words were misconstrued or misunderstood, and authorities took this

779
00:36:52,481 --> 00:36:55,641
Speaker 1: as evidence that fit with their narrative that your dad

780
00:36:55,641 --> 00:36:57,881
Speaker 1: had taken his own life. How frustrating was that for you?

781
00:36:58,361 --> 00:36:58,721
Speaker 4: Oh?

782
00:36:58,961 --> 00:37:02,361
Speaker 5: Beyond frustrated, Like every step of the way, I was,

783
00:37:02,681 --> 00:37:06,721
Speaker 5: you know, don't I can't even put words into it

784
00:37:07,641 --> 00:37:11,081
Speaker 5: explaining you know how hard it is to hear everything

785
00:37:11,121 --> 00:37:12,081
Speaker 5: I'm saying is he say?

786
00:37:12,161 --> 00:37:15,721
Speaker 4: But everything she's saying as gospel was like why you know?

787
00:37:15,921 --> 00:37:16,801
Speaker 4: It just it was it.

788
00:37:16,801 --> 00:37:21,201
Speaker 5: Wascwed to one narrative and one narrative only, and they

789
00:37:21,241 --> 00:37:24,041
Speaker 5: did anything they could just to push it in that direction.

790
00:37:25,121 --> 00:37:27,361
Speaker 5: I was, I was fighting a fight that you know.

791
00:37:27,481 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 5: I feel like at times, I'm like, why I can't

792
00:37:29,481 --> 00:37:31,561
Speaker 5: do this, I can't do this, but I just had

793
00:37:31,601 --> 00:37:34,761
Speaker 5: to keep on pushing because you know, he's.

794
00:37:34,601 --> 00:37:38,641
Speaker 1: Worth it one hundred. And I feel like that does

795
00:37:38,681 --> 00:37:42,361
Speaker 1: happen a lot in these cases where they choose a

796
00:37:42,441 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: line and I'm still dealing with this with my mother

797
00:37:46,161 --> 00:37:49,081
Speaker 1: twenty eight years down the track, where they pick a

798
00:37:49,201 --> 00:37:53,321
Speaker 1: narrative that sits with them and that's the path they follow.

799
00:37:53,441 --> 00:37:57,241
Speaker 1: They really do not venture off much off that path,

800
00:37:57,361 --> 00:37:59,641
Speaker 1: do they, and if they if they've got something there,

801
00:37:59,841 --> 00:38:01,721
Speaker 1: And I feel like this has happened to you as well,

802
00:38:02,241 --> 00:38:04,561
Speaker 1: where they're just sticking to their guns. It's like, no,

803
00:38:04,841 --> 00:38:08,441
Speaker 1: he definitely suicided. You definitely drove the car. There's no blood,

804
00:38:08,441 --> 00:38:10,521
Speaker 1: there's no footprints it. There's footprints in the house, but

805
00:38:10,561 --> 00:38:13,361
Speaker 1: no footprints coming up to the car. You can't drive.

806
00:38:13,441 --> 00:38:16,761
Speaker 1: He drives with glasses, but they're at home. Miraculously, his

807
00:38:16,841 --> 00:38:20,001
Speaker 1: car ends up an hour and seventeen minutes away near

808
00:38:20,041 --> 00:38:23,481
Speaker 1: the beach. And there's an assumption made very quickly based

809
00:38:23,561 --> 00:38:26,361
Speaker 1: on some people saying, oh, well, he had suicidal tendencies

810
00:38:26,361 --> 00:38:28,161
Speaker 1: because he was taking some painkillers.

811
00:38:29,081 --> 00:38:30,041
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

812
00:38:30,121 --> 00:38:32,761
Speaker 5: And even like with the media release I did, I

813
00:38:32,801 --> 00:38:35,041
Speaker 5: was told you do not mention anything about the house,

814
00:38:35,561 --> 00:38:37,241
Speaker 5: and that there was but at the house there was

815
00:38:38,441 --> 00:38:41,041
Speaker 5: a very clear director from them. No, no, you're not

816
00:38:41,041 --> 00:38:43,361
Speaker 5: allowed to mention that, you know, And I I remember

817
00:38:43,401 --> 00:38:44,161
Speaker 5: the like, you do.

818
00:38:44,161 --> 00:38:44,641
Speaker 4: What you're told.

819
00:38:44,841 --> 00:38:46,641
Speaker 5: At the time, I didn't know police were going to

820
00:38:46,641 --> 00:38:48,881
Speaker 5: be like the way they were. I still had respect

821
00:38:48,921 --> 00:38:52,921
Speaker 5: for authorities at that point, so I listened. But I

822
00:38:52,961 --> 00:38:55,121
Speaker 5: think back now and going, oh my god, why didn't

823
00:38:55,161 --> 00:38:57,041
Speaker 5: I just say what I really thought?

824
00:38:57,121 --> 00:38:57,881
Speaker 4: So what happened?

825
00:38:58,481 --> 00:39:01,121
Speaker 5: Maybe it would have created Maybe was all I kept saying,

826
00:39:01,161 --> 00:39:05,281
Speaker 5: is I just needed that one Also with that courage,

827
00:39:05,321 --> 00:39:07,121
Speaker 5: a conventional that would look at it in a different

828
00:39:07,161 --> 00:39:09,481
Speaker 5: way and just go because all of the investigator was

829
00:39:09,521 --> 00:39:12,001
Speaker 5: all based on Lanceloon. I kept saying, this is disjointed.

830
00:39:12,241 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 5: What about Ocean Reeve? But because the car was found there,

831
00:39:15,441 --> 00:39:17,841
Speaker 5: it was like, Nope, that's where he was. And it's like,

832
00:39:18,001 --> 00:39:20,761
Speaker 5: but they never found him. So they even said to

833
00:39:20,801 --> 00:39:23,281
Speaker 5: me up there, that's never happened before. There's going to

834
00:39:23,281 --> 00:39:27,281
Speaker 5: be such a thorough investigation. I just has never happened before,

835
00:39:28,121 --> 00:39:30,321
Speaker 5: and I certainly didn't get that thorough investigation.

836
00:39:31,401 --> 00:39:35,521
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know that that's a

837
00:39:35,521 --> 00:39:37,561
Speaker 1: fact for you, and I know that's that's a very

838
00:39:37,561 --> 00:39:40,201
Speaker 1: hard pel to swallow. But I'm glad you're I'm glad

839
00:39:40,201 --> 00:39:43,121
Speaker 1: you're still here, and I'm glad you're still chipping away.

840
00:39:43,921 --> 00:39:46,201
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, you actually did a five part

841
00:39:46,281 --> 00:39:51,041
Speaker 1: podcast series with my friend Jay called Dad's Gone. Since then,

842
00:39:51,121 --> 00:39:54,121
Speaker 1: I remember you telling me about some new evidence that

843
00:39:54,161 --> 00:39:58,041
Speaker 1: you had found or seen from the crime scene. Can

844
00:39:58,081 --> 00:39:59,601
Speaker 1: you share with us what that was about?

845
00:40:00,041 --> 00:40:02,961
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, obviously I'd analyze the photos a million times,

846
00:40:02,961 --> 00:40:04,721
Speaker 5: and every time I go back to the mug might

847
00:40:04,801 --> 00:40:07,721
Speaker 5: find the little details something else different, you know, like

848
00:40:08,441 --> 00:40:10,481
Speaker 5: it might have been a different headspace and it's you know,

849
00:40:10,921 --> 00:40:12,761
Speaker 5: just at one point I was like, hang on a minute,

850
00:40:12,841 --> 00:40:14,881
Speaker 5: what is that box sitting in front of Dad's bin

851
00:40:15,521 --> 00:40:18,761
Speaker 5: and we're zoomed in on it, and it was a

852
00:40:18,801 --> 00:40:22,121
Speaker 5: box of you know, real specialized hospital grade.

853
00:40:22,001 --> 00:40:24,081
Speaker 4: Disinfectant wipes, and I was like, hang on a minute.

854
00:40:24,601 --> 00:40:25,881
Speaker 4: That didn't buy anything like that.

855
00:40:25,921 --> 00:40:27,321
Speaker 5: Well, number one, you kind of had to be a

856
00:40:27,321 --> 00:40:29,281
Speaker 5: cleanup really or you know, it's not like some of

857
00:40:29,321 --> 00:40:31,481
Speaker 5: you buy from coals or you know, you had to

858
00:40:31,481 --> 00:40:35,121
Speaker 5: buy from a specialty wholesaler, So what the heck, why

859
00:40:35,241 --> 00:40:36,521
Speaker 5: is you doing that? And then I looked closer and

860
00:40:36,561 --> 00:40:39,201
Speaker 5: I went, hang on a minute, the box is still soaked.

861
00:40:39,441 --> 00:40:43,681
Speaker 5: Why is the box wet? And it's like with water

862
00:40:44,081 --> 00:40:46,241
Speaker 5: like it was like it was like the floors have

863
00:40:46,321 --> 00:40:50,801
Speaker 5: been mopped and it was still sitting there soaking it up.

864
00:40:50,841 --> 00:40:53,841
Speaker 5: But you know it was it wasn't until Wednesday that

865
00:40:53,921 --> 00:40:56,561
Speaker 5: the photos were taken, so it certainly shouldn't have been

866
00:40:56,721 --> 00:40:58,441
Speaker 5: still wet by that point.

867
00:40:58,321 --> 00:41:00,961
Speaker 1: So the police hadn't been in to clean up at

868
00:41:00,961 --> 00:41:01,881
Speaker 1: this point.

869
00:41:02,321 --> 00:41:05,001
Speaker 5: They left it up after the fact, but that actually

870
00:41:05,121 --> 00:41:07,601
Speaker 5: when when they at Eliza scene, they were made it

871
00:41:07,681 --> 00:41:09,481
Speaker 5: very clear that they said, no, there's no evidence of

872
00:41:09,521 --> 00:41:11,921
Speaker 5: a cleanup. But he was like, hang on a minute,

873
00:41:11,961 --> 00:41:14,801
Speaker 5: why are these you know, disinfecting wipes. For me, it

874
00:41:14,881 --> 00:41:16,681
Speaker 5: just was odd, you know, when his vacking cleaner was

875
00:41:16,721 --> 00:41:19,601
Speaker 5: out and I don't know, to me, to me, it

876
00:41:19,601 --> 00:41:21,081
Speaker 5: looked like there had been a clean up and this

877
00:41:21,161 --> 00:41:23,441
Speaker 5: was actually a stage suicide. It was actually made to

878
00:41:23,441 --> 00:41:26,761
Speaker 5: look like he's done. What his dated is what the

879
00:41:26,761 --> 00:41:28,721
Speaker 5: police had said, you know, because even all of his

880
00:41:28,761 --> 00:41:32,241
Speaker 5: medication was out on the on display. Even though he

881
00:41:32,321 --> 00:41:34,281
Speaker 5: used a monthly pill box. The monthly pill box was

882
00:41:34,721 --> 00:41:37,001
Speaker 5: filled in and he kept all the boxes. You know.

883
00:41:37,321 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 5: It wasn't on a lot of medication, don't get me wrong,

884
00:41:40,121 --> 00:41:42,601
Speaker 5: but the medication was in a predunder a pill box,

885
00:41:42,641 --> 00:41:44,441
Speaker 5: but all of the boxes were laid out, and it

886
00:41:44,481 --> 00:41:48,041
Speaker 5: was just so weird that it was like literally a

887
00:41:48,081 --> 00:41:50,601
Speaker 5: setup sort of suicide saying it was like, nah, this

888
00:41:50,761 --> 00:41:55,561
Speaker 5: is not right, and too many unt answered questions there

889
00:41:55,601 --> 00:41:56,121
Speaker 5: really was.

890
00:41:56,881 --> 00:41:59,441
Speaker 1: When I was reading about this bill, I kind of

891
00:41:59,561 --> 00:42:04,361
Speaker 1: just sometimes put myself into the investigative role and start

892
00:42:04,401 --> 00:42:07,641
Speaker 1: thinking out, so excuse me, if this has been done.

893
00:42:07,641 --> 00:42:12,481
Speaker 1: But I was wondering if that box of medicated wipes,

894
00:42:12,481 --> 00:42:17,401
Speaker 1: which is a hospital grade disinfectant wipes typically not available

895
00:42:17,401 --> 00:42:20,681
Speaker 1: at Coals and Wallies. Have you got the details of

896
00:42:20,921 --> 00:42:23,681
Speaker 1: what the name is and could we look at who

897
00:42:23,721 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: actually makes these and who's a wholesaler of those?

898
00:42:27,481 --> 00:42:30,641
Speaker 4: Yeah, we possibly could, yes, because.

899
00:42:30,401 --> 00:42:32,281
Speaker 1: That could be something if you haven't done that. I

900
00:42:32,321 --> 00:42:34,521
Speaker 1: was just trying to think outside the square as to

901
00:42:34,721 --> 00:42:37,241
Speaker 1: what else could we do that hasn't been done before,

902
00:42:38,041 --> 00:42:40,841
Speaker 1: to maybe think of how we can loop it through

903
00:42:41,161 --> 00:42:44,361
Speaker 1: and if we've got contacts about people we know, people

904
00:42:44,961 --> 00:42:48,881
Speaker 1: who worked in an industry or a business that had

905
00:42:49,361 --> 00:42:51,721
Speaker 1: the use for something like that, and you can connect

906
00:42:51,761 --> 00:42:55,361
Speaker 1: that dot to that dot, maybe there's something there. So

907
00:42:56,081 --> 00:42:58,481
Speaker 1: what's it been like to carry these unanswered questions for

908
00:42:58,521 --> 00:42:59,601
Speaker 1: so many years?

909
00:42:59,921 --> 00:43:00,721
Speaker 4: Oh?

910
00:43:00,761 --> 00:43:03,321
Speaker 5: Look, the biggest I mean obviously not having my dad

911
00:43:03,521 --> 00:43:06,561
Speaker 5: here and watch, you know, just watching the kids grow up,

912
00:43:06,601 --> 00:43:09,281
Speaker 5: and the amount of times I just think, oh my gosh,

913
00:43:09,801 --> 00:43:12,721
Speaker 5: that would be so proud, you know, but that's normal,

914
00:43:12,761 --> 00:43:15,481
Speaker 5: that's natural. But the biggest struggle has been fighting every

915
00:43:15,481 --> 00:43:18,601
Speaker 5: step of the way and just not being heard. It's

916
00:43:18,681 --> 00:43:24,201
Speaker 5: been an unimaginable bite for justice and you know, you know,

917
00:43:24,201 --> 00:43:25,281
Speaker 5: obviously being called toxic.

918
00:43:25,321 --> 00:43:28,161
Speaker 4: The investigation was exactly a highlight in my life.

919
00:43:28,201 --> 00:43:31,921
Speaker 5: And to have someone closed in that all these red flags,

920
00:43:32,441 --> 00:43:35,081
Speaker 5: you know, was able to take over full control and

921
00:43:35,721 --> 00:43:39,601
Speaker 5: even able to sell his house before a death certificate

922
00:43:39,881 --> 00:43:41,201
Speaker 5: or grand of brobate was issued.

923
00:43:41,481 --> 00:43:43,321
Speaker 1: So hang on, hang on, hang on. Are you telling

924
00:43:43,361 --> 00:43:46,001
Speaker 1: me that your dad's house was able to be sold

925
00:43:46,681 --> 00:43:48,521
Speaker 1: before a death certificate was issued?

926
00:43:48,961 --> 00:43:49,281
Speaker 4: Yes?

927
00:43:50,161 --> 00:43:52,321
Speaker 1: That is that a rule in Western Australia.

928
00:43:52,321 --> 00:43:54,721
Speaker 5: That's different, not that I'm aware of, because everyone was

929
00:43:54,761 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 5: telling everyone around me was like no, no, of course

930
00:43:57,041 --> 00:44:00,001
Speaker 5: that can't happen, and never gave me an opportunity just

931
00:44:00,041 --> 00:44:03,841
Speaker 5: to sign them. So in the end, she yeah, got

932
00:44:04,161 --> 00:44:09,761
Speaker 5: layed up, bullish lawyer, got soul administration and somehow managed

933
00:44:09,801 --> 00:44:12,321
Speaker 5: to get the actual land rights put into her name

934
00:44:12,561 --> 00:44:14,681
Speaker 5: so she could actually sell the property before we got

935
00:44:14,681 --> 00:44:15,321
Speaker 5: a desert defeated.

936
00:44:16,321 --> 00:44:18,081
Speaker 1: And you know what, Belle, Just for the record, I

937
00:44:18,121 --> 00:44:22,561
Speaker 1: find it really quite confronting to hear that you're referred

938
00:44:22,601 --> 00:44:25,561
Speaker 1: to as a toxic person because you're fighting for the

939
00:44:25,761 --> 00:44:28,041
Speaker 1: answers and the truth as to what's happened to your dad.

940
00:44:28,081 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: I find that I don't even know what the right

941
00:44:31,521 --> 00:44:34,961
Speaker 1: word is, but that is just a terrible thing. For

942
00:44:35,041 --> 00:44:36,121
Speaker 1: anybody to say.

943
00:44:36,321 --> 00:44:40,241
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've been through my moments of anger and frustration

944
00:44:40,521 --> 00:44:44,841
Speaker 5: and you know, and my latest battle is having proof

945
00:44:45,201 --> 00:44:48,641
Speaker 5: that this person didn't have her phone on the last

946
00:44:48,721 --> 00:44:51,561
Speaker 5: day he was seen alive. And yet to this day

947
00:44:52,001 --> 00:44:55,681
Speaker 5: there's still not so seeing that as suspicious. They still

948
00:44:55,681 --> 00:44:58,521
Speaker 5: say no matches up with a statement, we're not taking

949
00:44:58,521 --> 00:45:01,441
Speaker 5: this any further. I've presented it to I've written to

950
00:45:01,441 --> 00:45:05,401
Speaker 5: the head of the Major Crime Squad apparently wh said

951
00:45:05,441 --> 00:45:08,761
Speaker 5: you know, I actually did get acknowledgment because one of

952
00:45:08,761 --> 00:45:10,801
Speaker 5: my letters reached him and he goes, if you have

953
00:45:10,841 --> 00:45:12,281
Speaker 5: a new information, let me know.

954
00:45:12,921 --> 00:45:15,721
Speaker 4: Three emiles. Six months later, not even a response.

955
00:45:18,041 --> 00:45:22,321
Speaker 1: So in March twenty twenty four. So last year, you

956
00:45:22,321 --> 00:45:26,681
Speaker 1: set up a petition to help push your dad's case,

957
00:45:27,081 --> 00:45:29,361
Speaker 1: and I want to put a call out to the

958
00:45:29,561 --> 00:45:34,921
Speaker 1: WA Police Commissioner Cole Blanche, the state coroner, Judge Robin Hartley,

959
00:45:35,721 --> 00:45:40,161
Speaker 1: even your local MP Emily Hamilton to approve for the

960
00:45:40,201 --> 00:45:43,281
Speaker 1: Special Crime Squad to review, open and investigate some of

961
00:45:43,321 --> 00:45:47,841
Speaker 1: these new fines and new information that has come to

962
00:45:47,921 --> 00:45:51,201
Speaker 1: the table. Last time I looked, currently had like nine

963
00:45:51,321 --> 00:45:54,561
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty signatures on there. I signed it again

964
00:45:54,681 --> 00:45:56,761
Speaker 1: the other night, and then a couple of my friends

965
00:45:56,801 --> 00:45:58,641
Speaker 1: signed it. I saw that I put on my Facebook

966
00:45:58,681 --> 00:46:00,641
Speaker 1: and a couple of people signed it. How many people

967
00:46:00,681 --> 00:46:03,681
Speaker 1: do we need to sign that petition to show our support?

968
00:46:05,361 --> 00:46:07,441
Speaker 5: To be honest, I don't know if there's a magic number.

969
00:46:08,201 --> 00:46:09,361
Speaker 5: With the amount of roadbots that.

970
00:46:09,281 --> 00:46:11,321
Speaker 4: I've faced, I think I'm going to need a lot.

971
00:46:12,241 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 5: So at the end of the day, I would really

972
00:46:14,561 --> 00:46:17,601
Speaker 5: just appreciate any support. We're trying to gain more signatures

973
00:46:18,121 --> 00:46:20,441
Speaker 5: just to try and get this one question answered. I

974
00:46:21,241 --> 00:46:23,121
Speaker 5: that's all I really, I just want one question to

975
00:46:23,161 --> 00:46:26,201
Speaker 5: answer asked. If this one person, I'm not after. I

976
00:46:26,201 --> 00:46:28,121
Speaker 5: don't even care about the people that's actually done it.

977
00:46:28,281 --> 00:46:30,161
Speaker 5: I just want That's all I'm after.

978
00:46:31,041 --> 00:46:34,081
Speaker 1: So any support, and what's your Facebook page called? We're

979
00:46:34,081 --> 00:46:35,321
Speaker 1: going to put it in the show notes, and we're

980
00:46:35,321 --> 00:46:37,121
Speaker 1: going to put the petition in the show notes as well.

981
00:46:37,161 --> 00:46:40,321
Speaker 1: But tell everybody now what your Facebook page is called, so.

982
00:46:40,281 --> 00:46:43,321
Speaker 5: They can jump for So it's called Justice for Jasper,

983
00:46:44,561 --> 00:46:47,961
Speaker 5: and I created that to keep him alive, keep his

984
00:46:48,001 --> 00:46:50,481
Speaker 5: memory alive, so he didn't become a judge just another.

985
00:46:51,721 --> 00:46:52,961
Speaker 4: So yeah, please visit me.

986
00:46:52,961 --> 00:46:55,441
Speaker 5: I've already got a huge following and without the support

987
00:46:55,441 --> 00:46:58,561
Speaker 5: of all those people, I couldn't have again gotten to

988
00:46:58,561 --> 00:47:01,041
Speaker 5: where I am today. But I've got a contact form

989
00:47:01,081 --> 00:47:05,681
Speaker 5: there as well, so any information, yeah, please feel free

990
00:47:05,721 --> 00:47:06,321
Speaker 5: to reach out.

991
00:47:09,241 --> 00:47:13,801
Speaker 1: So interestingly, you know, I've been doing the Missing Matter

992
00:47:13,801 --> 00:47:18,401
Speaker 1: podcast for a little while now and you are my

993
00:47:18,721 --> 00:47:23,601
Speaker 1: fourth episode, and so far all the episodes have been

994
00:47:24,561 --> 00:47:28,361
Speaker 1: about men going missing, and I am very sad to

995
00:47:28,401 --> 00:47:31,641
Speaker 1: say that every single one of those men do not

996
00:47:31,681 --> 00:47:34,801
Speaker 1: have a reward for information. What would it mean to

997
00:47:34,841 --> 00:47:37,401
Speaker 1: you if Western Australian Police put up a reward for

998
00:47:37,441 --> 00:47:39,641
Speaker 1: information that could help bring your dad home?

999
00:47:40,161 --> 00:47:42,401
Speaker 4: Do you know what? It wouldn't mean more than anything,

1000
00:47:43,001 --> 00:47:43,721
Speaker 4: it really would.

1001
00:47:45,201 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 5: Although the good news is that in December twenty twenty four,

1002
00:47:48,481 --> 00:47:50,561
Speaker 5: the Cook government actually announced that there is a new

1003
00:47:50,601 --> 00:47:54,041
Speaker 5: reward of up to half a million dollars for any

1004
00:47:54,081 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 5: information that solves a long term missing case in WA.

1005
00:47:57,481 --> 00:47:59,841
Speaker 1: And is that across all missing persons currently?

1006
00:47:59,881 --> 00:48:03,281
Speaker 5: It is that a website created and there's a link

1007
00:48:03,361 --> 00:48:06,201
Speaker 5: through to all of the missing persons with the National

1008
00:48:06,241 --> 00:48:08,681
Speaker 5: Missing Person's Database, which includes my father.

1009
00:48:09,321 --> 00:48:13,401
Speaker 1: Okay, well that is good, that is good to know. Yeah,

1010
00:48:13,521 --> 00:48:16,521
Speaker 1: I think from where I sit and watching WA police.

1011
00:48:16,561 --> 00:48:20,841
Speaker 1: I feel like they are churning quite well over there

1012
00:48:20,841 --> 00:48:24,081
Speaker 1: in the missing space, like I've seen a churning and

1013
00:48:24,921 --> 00:48:28,841
Speaker 1: a happening. Something's going on. They are acknowledging missing persons.

1014
00:48:28,881 --> 00:48:32,521
Speaker 1: But I still think having an individual reward for an

1015
00:48:32,521 --> 00:48:35,561
Speaker 1: individual case is really vital. And I think you can't

1016
00:48:35,601 --> 00:48:39,721
Speaker 1: put a number on one person. If someone who's listening

1017
00:48:39,801 --> 00:48:43,001
Speaker 1: to us today, Belle has something that they need to

1018
00:48:43,041 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: tell you or they'd like to speak to you, how

1019
00:48:45,481 --> 00:48:46,561
Speaker 1: can they best contact you?

1020
00:48:47,481 --> 00:48:50,201
Speaker 5: Well, please, I'd ask that you please contact me through

1021
00:48:50,281 --> 00:48:54,361
Speaker 5: my Justice for Jesber page or providing any information.

1022
00:48:54,481 --> 00:48:58,961
Speaker 4: I know listening to obviously Deser's podcasts, you.

1023
00:48:58,881 --> 00:49:00,761
Speaker 5: Know you're gonna have You're gonna have space on your

1024
00:49:00,801 --> 00:49:04,641
Speaker 5: website website for the Missing Matters Contaction to provide information

1025
00:49:04,761 --> 00:49:05,961
Speaker 5: for where'd you to do so there?

1026
00:49:06,281 --> 00:49:10,561
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that website is www dot themissingmatter dot com

1027
00:49:10,601 --> 00:49:13,281
Speaker 1: just for those of you who haven't heard that yet.

1028
00:49:13,321 --> 00:49:15,361
Speaker 1: And you will be, as Belle said, be able to

1029
00:49:15,361 --> 00:49:19,041
Speaker 1: read profiles and see the faces of these beautiful humans

1030
00:49:19,081 --> 00:49:23,161
Speaker 1: who are missing to us, So you can contact us

1031
00:49:23,161 --> 00:49:26,921
Speaker 1: there and we will pass that information onto Bell as well.

1032
00:49:27,281 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 5: Thank you, and obviously, as we always say, you know,

1033
00:49:29,521 --> 00:49:32,361
Speaker 5: please feel free to try and contact Crimestoppers, and I

1034
00:49:32,801 --> 00:49:34,321
Speaker 5: just have to hope they act on the information.

1035
00:49:35,601 --> 00:49:37,761
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's important I like to add

1036
00:49:37,881 --> 00:49:41,001
Speaker 1: with crime Stoppers. I mean, look, no shade on anything

1037
00:49:41,041 --> 00:49:43,721
Speaker 1: that happens in that space. But I do know that

1038
00:49:43,921 --> 00:49:47,601
Speaker 1: my personal experience was there was a couple of calls

1039
00:49:47,641 --> 00:49:50,521
Speaker 1: from my mum's case that went through from people that

1040
00:49:50,601 --> 00:49:53,281
Speaker 1: I knew, and they actually when you report to Crimestoppers,

1041
00:49:53,361 --> 00:49:56,921
Speaker 1: you get like a reference number, right, And when I

1042
00:49:56,961 --> 00:49:59,321
Speaker 1: spoke to the OAC on my mum's case and asked

1043
00:49:59,321 --> 00:50:01,761
Speaker 1: her if she'd actually receive those because I said to

1044
00:50:01,801 --> 00:50:03,561
Speaker 1: them that's the best way to do it, she hadn't

1045
00:50:03,601 --> 00:50:07,681
Speaker 1: actually received them at that point. So it was only

1046
00:50:07,721 --> 00:50:09,481
Speaker 1: that I was able to give her the reference numbers

1047
00:50:09,481 --> 00:50:12,161
Speaker 1: that she went back and actually gained the information. So

1048
00:50:12,801 --> 00:50:15,281
Speaker 1: that's why I say it's important to share the information

1049
00:50:15,441 --> 00:50:19,081
Speaker 1: amongst a few, just in case something goes awry and

1050
00:50:19,121 --> 00:50:22,161
Speaker 1: the information doesn't make it to the detective on the

1051
00:50:22,201 --> 00:50:25,201
Speaker 1: case or who's looking after the case or managing the case.

1052
00:50:25,801 --> 00:50:29,321
Speaker 1: I guess because the coroner has deemed your dad deceased,

1053
00:50:30,401 --> 00:50:34,041
Speaker 1: so is he still sitting within missing persons in Western Australia.

1054
00:50:34,241 --> 00:50:36,401
Speaker 5: He's sitting with missing persons, but they say that they

1055
00:50:36,441 --> 00:50:40,321
Speaker 5: have no they're waiting. They won't do anything unless new

1056
00:50:40,361 --> 00:50:42,441
Speaker 5: information comes forward. So at least I don't have to

1057
00:50:42,441 --> 00:50:44,241
Speaker 5: fight for it to be open that I have to

1058
00:50:44,281 --> 00:50:45,601
Speaker 5: fight for it to be investigated.

1059
00:50:45,681 --> 00:50:48,641
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay. So I think it's important just to

1060
00:50:48,641 --> 00:50:50,921
Speaker 1: state at this point we're not accusing anybody of anyone

1061
00:50:51,001 --> 00:50:53,441
Speaker 1: doing in this podcast. We're simply stating some points of

1062
00:50:53,521 --> 00:50:57,561
Speaker 1: view that don't necessarily agree with each other. Police seem

1063
00:50:57,641 --> 00:51:00,161
Speaker 1: to be very clear that there is no criminality involved

1064
00:51:00,241 --> 00:51:04,641
Speaker 1: in the case of missing person. John Jensen Bell, it's

1065
00:51:04,681 --> 00:51:07,521
Speaker 1: been so nice to talk to you. Can we finish

1066
00:51:07,721 --> 00:51:10,401
Speaker 1: with you telling us why Jesper matters?

1067
00:51:13,401 --> 00:51:16,721
Speaker 5: He was such a good man. He was he was

1068
00:51:16,761 --> 00:51:20,561
Speaker 5: a gentle giant that was taken far too early. And

1069
00:51:20,641 --> 00:51:26,321
Speaker 5: he just deserves better than this. Oh it's difficult to

1070
00:51:26,321 --> 00:51:28,961
Speaker 5: to say more than that, but he just deserves to

1071
00:51:29,001 --> 00:51:32,561
Speaker 5: not be labeled this. He deserves to be found, he

1072
00:51:32,641 --> 00:51:35,081
Speaker 5: deserves to be brought home and later rest with his wife.

1073
00:51:36,161 --> 00:51:37,961
Speaker 1: And you deserve peace, my friend.

1074
00:51:38,401 --> 00:51:38,921
Speaker 4: I think so.

1075
00:51:42,841 --> 00:51:46,121
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you are a good human

1076
00:51:47,041 --> 00:51:49,041
Speaker 1: and your dad would be very very proud of you.

1077
00:51:50,081 --> 00:51:50,841
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1078
00:51:54,121 --> 00:51:56,081
Speaker 2: Next week on the missing matter.

1079
00:51:57,801 --> 00:52:01,321
Speaker 6: So the car was located on Tuesday or only told

1080
00:52:01,361 --> 00:52:04,441
Speaker 6: on Friday, so there was no sort of urgency or

1081
00:52:04,481 --> 00:52:07,641
Speaker 6: follow up. So it's a very big question because this

1082
00:52:07,881 --> 00:52:10,041
Speaker 6: was not told to me by police. It was told

1083
00:52:10,081 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 6: to me by community. Thing that the police was sort

1084
00:52:14,481 --> 00:52:16,761
Speaker 6: of saying around at the end, like, you know, he's

1085
00:52:16,801 --> 00:52:20,321
Speaker 6: just happy he's living in the back of someone's banana, sad,

1086
00:52:20,561 --> 00:52:22,121
Speaker 6: you know, and I was just like, but.

1087
00:52:22,041 --> 00:52:23,361
Speaker 4: There's no evidence of that.

1088
00:52:23,801 --> 00:52:30,041
Speaker 6: I felt pretty heartbroken at that point. I was with

1089
00:52:30,161 --> 00:52:32,921
Speaker 6: Queensland Police on the other side with their police dogs,

1090
00:52:33,001 --> 00:52:34,921
Speaker 6: and then we got to a point and then we

1091
00:52:34,921 --> 00:52:38,081
Speaker 6: couldn't go over it. I felt a lot of betrayal

1092
00:52:38,401 --> 00:52:41,041
Speaker 6: that they were leaving my brother to sable person in

1093
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Speaker 6: the bush to die.