Speaker 1: I get at it's you project, it's gals Bow, it's cook, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's harp so and it's another day on the typ journey.
Speaker 1: We're rocketing. We're rocketing towards two thousand episodes. If you've
Speaker 1: got an idea what we might do for the two
Speaker 1: thousandth t if I was thinking of maybe doing a
Speaker 1: live episode with like fifty people or something live recorded
Speaker 1: live with people asking what are you looking at me
Speaker 1: like that? For? Is that a bad idea?
Speaker 2: What do you mean fifty people, fifty people watching?
Speaker 1: Not for me? No, no, no, I mean like a live
Speaker 1: zoom call where fifty people can sit in the zoom
Speaker 1: room like we're doing right now with Golespo, but another
Speaker 1: fifty vagabonds.
Speaker 2: Oh that would be so fun.
Speaker 1: Who can sit in, you know, on mute and then
Speaker 1: at a given time ask questions, either type questions through
Speaker 1: or ask verbally turning on the old mic.
Speaker 2: But how do you pick the fifty?
Speaker 1: Well, it's whoever sends us one thousand dollars in small
Speaker 1: unmarked bills to No, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I haven't thought it through. Well, see here's the problem too.
Speaker 1: When you do stuff like that, sometimes people go yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: then they don't show right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and soon they've all got to type stuff in.
Speaker 2: I was like, that sounds way more like a Melissa
Speaker 2: level of attention to detail than a Tiff Cook.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's like you can type right now
Speaker 1: in the old chat you can write, hey, harps, get
Speaker 1: closer to the microphone that never works.
Speaker 2: You never listen to that.
Speaker 1: I don't read it and I don't listen to you anyway. Calls.
Speaker 1: But what do you think we should do for a
Speaker 1: thousandth two thousandth?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I have very little experience with such things.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's not often you can catch him out
Speaker 1: to your visit.
Speaker 3: Absolutely no idea. Have you tried asking Ai?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well maybe I asked a tipple to it right now?
Speaker 3: If asking Ai, what should a podcast do for the
Speaker 3: two thousand episode?
Speaker 1: Have you got any ideas too? Yeah?
Speaker 3: See what it comes up with.
Speaker 1: Oh I just drank some water. Very bad protocol on
Speaker 1: the bloody podcast. But who cares? Well whilst she's doing that,
Speaker 1: you put up your hand when you've got that. But GILESPO,
Speaker 1: welcome back. Thank you so much for joining us as
Speaker 1: you do once fortnite. Just so you know David's I
Speaker 1: don't know what would you call it? What do you
Speaker 1: call raisin Hell?
Speaker 3: Is that?
Speaker 1: What just were your I was going to say suppository.
Speaker 1: What I meant was repository.
Speaker 3: Repository.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, David's suppository of quality work. No, his repository
Speaker 1: of articles. Is Is it raisinhell dot com?
Speaker 3: Is it on? No? No, it's just on substack and
Speaker 3: in search for which search for raisin Hell on substack.
Speaker 1: And that is R A I S I N hble
Speaker 1: l if have you got any gold for us? Have
Speaker 1: you got any wisdom?
Speaker 3: The reverse?
Speaker 1: The creative Genius.
Speaker 2: Flip the mic two thousand and two thousand, Rapid Fire
Speaker 2: Wisdom two thousand seconds, where you give your twenty most
Speaker 2: powerful lessons from two thousand episodes. Audience in the room
Speaker 2: many a bit mare.
Speaker 3: Maybe you need to Maybe you need to give it
Speaker 3: a bit more context iff and tell it what the
Speaker 3: show is about. It might be able to do better.
Speaker 2: Chatters knows everything about my life, man. Chatters are best mates.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Chatters knows all about heart.
Speaker 1: That's true. If I asked my Chatters, it would say
Speaker 1: something different because it and my are besties. Although we
Speaker 1: did have a fight.
Speaker 2: The other day, Oh, harps in the hot seat, the
Speaker 2: uncensored roast and therapy session.
Speaker 3: There we go.
Speaker 1: Don't need you, Yeah, we don't need that. Already got
Speaker 1: enough issues. I'm already in therapy three times a week.
Speaker 1: All right, gillespo, welcome back to the show. As I said,
Speaker 1: so you wrote an article. There was a new one
Speaker 1: out today which I haven't read yet, apologize, but you
Speaker 1: wrote one about a week ago, I would think now
Speaker 1: called Engineered for Pain, the Untold Story of Migraine, seed,
Speaker 1: oils and profit. And yeah, that's a really good article. Everyone,
Speaker 1: if you want to go, have a read of it.
Speaker 1: But if you can't be bothered, just tune in right
Speaker 1: now because the Great Man is going to give us
Speaker 1: a little bit of a reader's digest version of what
Speaker 1: that was about.
Speaker 3: So have you have you ever suffered from migraine? Set all?
Speaker 1: I have. I've been very lucky. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I do have friends who absolutely crippled by them.
Speaker 1: And yeah, hole got to be in a dark room,
Speaker 1: eyes closed, no noise, no movement. Yeah, so it's I
Speaker 1: personally can't understand, but I've been around it very debility.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been around it quite a bit, because my
Speaker 3: wife has had them at quite bad at time in
Speaker 3: her life, and some of my kids have as well.
Speaker 3: If you ever had migraines.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got them monthly when I hit adolescents for
Speaker 2: a period of time was horrible.
Speaker 3: There's a good reason for that, and we're going to
Speaker 3: talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1: How long did they last? How long? Sorry, David, how
Speaker 1: long did they last?
Speaker 2: They were brutal. They were usually just twenty four hours,
Speaker 2: but I would vomit like literally every hour on the hour,
Speaker 2: and then that would just slowly pit her out longer
Speaker 2: and longer.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: Was it exactly when you got your period or was
Speaker 1: it just during that time?
Speaker 2: It was the few months before it was leading up
Speaker 2: to that time, because but I remember the school, my
Speaker 2: school teacher, one of my school teachers. I kept going
Speaker 2: home once a month and they said then they just
Speaker 2: started asking me if you got your period yet? I
Speaker 2: think this might be hormonal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was horrible, horr Right, So when you got
Speaker 1: your period that stopped?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, it is interesting. We might talk a
Speaker 3: little bit about why that might be. But let's migrains
Speaker 3: affect an awful lot of people, and they aren't just
Speaker 3: headaches there, you know, as Tiff described, really crippling can
Speaker 3: be for sort of up to twenty four hours, and
Speaker 3: they can be multiple times a month. I mean TIFFs
Speaker 3: were just once a month. But people can who suffer
Speaker 3: from this, and it is a lot of people. You know,
Speaker 3: it is debilitating and you know it can affect their career,
Speaker 3: can affect their job because it just can't work. You
Speaker 3: can't go to work, you know, you can't look after kids,
Speaker 3: you can't do anything. And so it's been, as you
Speaker 3: might imagine, a bit of a priority for the drug
Speaker 3: makers to come up with something that they can do
Speaker 3: about it, because you know, panodole and neurophin and so
Speaker 3: on just aren't going to do anything for you. If
Speaker 3: you would have experienced that taking a couple of panadol
Speaker 3: would done much for your migraine. It's just something you
Speaker 3: have to work through, right ye. Yeah. And there's a
Speaker 3: good reason for it, because there's a lot more going
Speaker 3: on than just a headache. The headache sort of the
Speaker 3: final bit of what's going on. It starts with what
Speaker 3: they call, you know, sort of a spreading well, well
Speaker 3: they call it a CSDE or cortical spreading depression, which
Speaker 3: is just a wave of electrical activity in the brain,
Speaker 3: which often is what causes the aura that a lot
Speaker 3: of people describe. So they get an aura before the
Speaker 3: pain where you know, and they know it's coming, so
Speaker 3: that it's not yet hurting, but they know it's about
Speaker 3: to hit, and that probably makes it even scarier. But
Speaker 3: I guess it gives them warning to get into a
Speaker 3: dark room, calm down, stay out of the way of
Speaker 3: noise and light and so on. But what's going on
Speaker 3: in a migraine has probably since the early nineties started
Speaker 3: to be a lot clearer since they discovered some of
Speaker 3: the peptides that were involved in the brain, and in
Speaker 3: particular one called CGRP, which I won't bother digging out.
Speaker 3: People can read the articles that are interested in it.
Speaker 3: But CGRP is important because the drug companies have found
Speaker 3: that they can suppress the impact of CGRP. So CGRP
Speaker 3: seems to be critically involved in the pain mechanism, so
Speaker 3: the spreading pain inside the brain, So just to be
Speaker 3: sure to be clear on what's going on, CGRP is
Speaker 3: what's known as a vasodilator, so it dilates the veins
Speaker 3: the blood vessels in the brain, particularly around the edge
Speaker 3: of the brain the Meninji's and widens and causes the throbbing,
Speaker 3: pulsating pain that's associated with migraines. Now, the drug companies,
Speaker 3: as soon as they found that, started working on are
Speaker 3: there things we can do to block CGRP, like, you know,
Speaker 3: can we interfere with the receptors for CGRP and the brain,
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. Working on a lot. In the
Speaker 3: last decade or so, some powerful drugs have come out
Speaker 3: which do exactly that. So those drugs actually counteract CGRP
Speaker 3: in the brain and the result is that people who
Speaker 3: are given these drugs experience two to two and a
Speaker 3: half less migraine days per month, which is a significant impact.
Speaker 3: It's way beyond anything you know, anyone's ever managed before
Speaker 3: with any sort of standard pain killer, because it's not
Speaker 3: actually a painkiller, it's it's targeting the exact cares and
Speaker 3: so for that reason, it's powerful. It works. We know
Speaker 3: it works, and these drugs are now obviously finding themselves
Speaker 3: a very very big mark because this is something that impacts,
Speaker 3: you know, large percentages of the workforce. What's all this
Speaker 3: got to do with seag oils. The interesting thing is
Speaker 3: that you might say, Okay, well, that's all fabulous information
Speaker 3: about the CGRPs and how that impacts the brain, and
Speaker 3: it's great that we've got drugs that work on them,
Speaker 3: But what causes the CGRPs to be there in the
Speaker 3: first place is the more interesting question. What causes people
Speaker 3: to have that reaction, what causes them to need a
Speaker 3: drug to counteract them, And that's where some really interesting
Speaker 3: research has been done on what's called oxylipands, which are
Speaker 3: sort of precursors to the CGRPs, and in particular ones
Speaker 3: which are created from amiga six fats. Now amiga six fats,
Speaker 3: you will remember, so we've talked before about seed oils,
Speaker 3: so things like carnola oil, sunflower oil, you know what
Speaker 3: is generally disc as vegetable oil on the label of foods,
Speaker 3: you know, but no vegetables were harmed in the creation.
Speaker 3: They're actually fats that are created from seeds. So there's
Speaker 3: three classes of oil. There's animal fats, there's seed fats,
Speaker 3: and there's oil that you put in your car mineral
Speaker 3: from minerals. So vegetable oils largely created from seeds. Some flowers, aflower, canola,
Speaker 3: et cetera. All of them are very very high in
Speaker 3: AMEGA six polyunsaturated fats. And one of the problems is
Speaker 3: that the rate of growth in migraines, So migraines have
Speaker 3: increased in the population since nineteen ninety, since they started
Speaker 3: counting this sort of thing, by almost sixty percent. So
Speaker 3: since nineteen ninety, the incidence of migraine in the population
Speaker 3: has increased by almost sixty percent. So something's going on
Speaker 3: in the environment. And the interesting thing, and what prompted
Speaker 3: me to write this piece is that I saw I
Speaker 3: came across, just quite by chance, a really excellent piece
Speaker 3: of research. In nutrition science, you rarely see really high
Speaker 3: quality research. It's usually sort of, you know, associative type stuff.
Speaker 3: You know, men who have big cars, you know, have headaches,
Speaker 3: and Tiff was going somewhere else with that one, but
Speaker 3: you know that sort of like associating two things and
Speaker 3: saying these two things correlate, therefore one causes the other.
Speaker 3: That's the kind of research you tend to get in
Speaker 3: nutrition because doing any other kind of research and nutrition
Speaker 3: is really really hard. It's hard to do a double
Speaker 3: blind trial in nutrition because you know, the person knows
Speaker 3: whether they're eating a steak or whether they're eating ice cream,
Speaker 3: so you tend to get mostly rubbish. But there was
Speaker 3: this really really high quality done targeting this question, published
Speaker 3: in the British Medical journal, very good publication. The people
Speaker 3: doing the trial was the National Institute's of Health in
Speaker 3: the United States, in particular a fellow by the name
Speaker 3: of Chris Ramsden who has been assigned as there for
Speaker 3: decades and has been looking at amiga six fats for
Speaker 3: a long time, and he asked the question, is there
Speaker 3: a way we could run a trial to show whether
Speaker 3: or not amiga six fats in some way implicated in
Speaker 3: this massive rise in migraines. And what he did was
Speaker 3: organized exactly that. So he broke a trial group of
Speaker 3: people into three groups. One group ate exactly the way
Speaker 3: they always did, nothing unusual. The second group was asked
Speaker 3: to increase the amount of fish they ate, so therefore
Speaker 3: increased the Amega three in their diet. And the third
Speaker 3: group were asked to do that and swap out all
Speaker 3: the vegetable oils and seed oils in their diet instead
Speaker 3: of using sunflowl oil or canol oils, which olive oil
Speaker 3: or animal fats and intentionally avoid seed oils in the diet.
Speaker 3: And it reduced the amount of Amega six containing fats
Speaker 3: they were consuming by about a third, sorry, so by
Speaker 3: about two thirds. So I dropped them from seven percent
Speaker 3: of calories to two percent of calories. So it was
Speaker 3: a fairly effective trial. It ran for sixteen weeks. All
Speaker 3: of them were pre screened to be migraine sufferers. The
Speaker 3: effects in the group that dropped the Amega six were
Speaker 3: truly massive. Now remember that what I said before about
Speaker 3: the drugs. The most powerful drug that's ever been invented,
Speaker 3: took out two and a half migraine days per month. Yes,
Speaker 3: the group that all they did, they didn't do anything else.
Speaker 3: They just stopped consuming Amega three sorry Amega six fats,
Speaker 3: so stopped consuming seed oils. Four less migraine days per month.
Speaker 1: That's bloody, I mean, no.
Speaker 3: Drugs, nothing. All they did was reduced the amount of
Speaker 3: seed oils they consumed and they got four less days
Speaker 3: per month. Now, I came across this because I happened
Speaker 3: to see it in a story in the New York
Speaker 3: Times about this trial, and the story featured the lady
Speaker 3: that I put in my article, which was. She was
Speaker 3: one of the participants in the trial. This is now
Speaker 3: three years late after the trial. The trial was completed
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one and published I think in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty two, and she's been doing it ever since. She said,
Speaker 3: there's no way I am going back to eating the
Speaker 3: way I was, because I've been paying free now for
Speaker 3: years and never been paying free my entire life. She's
Speaker 3: fifty eight.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And this accords with something that I've seen mentioned every
Speaker 3: now and then by people who follow paleo diets. Quite
Speaker 3: by accident. Part of the paleo diet is you tend
Speaker 3: to eat animal fats and avoid seed oils. And a
Speaker 3: lot of people have sort of anecdotally said you see
Speaker 3: it in the chat groups and sign people say, oh,
Speaker 3: I haven't had migraines since I stopped started eating this way.
Speaker 3: You know, has anyone else experience that? And a lot
Speaker 3: of people say, yeah, actually I have, And it accords
Speaker 3: with my own experience from the moment we stopped eating
Speaker 3: seed oils. As a household, my wife has not had
Speaker 3: a migraine, my kids have not had migraines. So that's
Speaker 3: all mabulous.
Speaker 1: How long has that, mate, overwhell.
Speaker 3: I put toxic oil. The book I wrote about this
Speaker 3: out in twenty fourteen, so that's yeah, so that's over
Speaker 3: eleven ten years now and the hang on, no.
Speaker 1: I just I want to ask a couple of questions.
Speaker 1: So sorry, So that's eleven years. That's fucking amazing. On
Speaker 1: how often was your wife having migraines?
Speaker 3: Ah, look, I'd say it to a couple of time. Times
Speaker 3: a month. Would have been a couple of times a month.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she was having give or take twenty to
Speaker 1: twenty five migraines a year and hasn't had one migraine
Speaker 1: in any year, no sense, that's incredible. And yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 3: The interesting thing about this is this is the first
Speaker 3: time I've seen real high quality evidence about this. So
Speaker 3: this is one of those things where drug companies have
Speaker 3: been really interested in it because as soon as they
Speaker 3: discovered something you could you know, nail you could hit
Speaker 3: with a hammer, which is the CGRP, they said, well,
Speaker 3: there's a drug target, let's do that. Yes, but they
Speaker 3: stopped there thinking there, Well, this research has done. They said, okay,
Speaker 3: but where's the CGRP come from? And this is where
Speaker 3: they've dug into the mechanism and said, what's really going
Speaker 3: on here is that Amiga six fats, uniquely a Mega
Speaker 3: six fats. These are the only things that can do
Speaker 3: it create a precursor to CGRP prostaglandin or it's a
Speaker 3: class of oxylipins which causes the CGRP to be created.
Speaker 3: And they've said, what if we took the A Mega
Speaker 3: six fats out, what would happen? Their theory was, what
Speaker 3: would happen is it's stopped migraines. Turns out they're right,
Speaker 3: So there is a very simple solution here. Now, as
Speaker 3: with all things about seed oils, there's always going to
Speaker 3: be people to have a propensity for the particular condition
Speaker 3: no matter what, and there'll be people who try this
Speaker 3: and they still get migraines. Maybe not as many, but
Speaker 3: they still get them. But what this shows is that
Speaker 3: the non drug based solution to this is more powerful
Speaker 3: than even the most powerful drug based solution, the miraculous
Speaker 3: one that they've already released. And I just find that fascinating.
Speaker 3: So the full write up, as you say, is in
Speaker 3: that is in that post and people can go and
Speaker 3: look at the read the article if they want to
Speaker 3: read the study if they're interested in that funny?
Speaker 1: Isn't that funny? How? Okay, So you've known this for
Speaker 1: at least eleven years, and I'm sure a lot of
Speaker 1: other people have known it. How I mean, I've been
Speaker 1: in and around health, wellness, fitness, owning gyms, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of this like this is like, I mean,
Speaker 1: until I saw the article, Like have you ever heard
Speaker 1: of this tip? Like, isn't it funny that there's something
Speaker 1: that's basically twice as good as the best drug? But
Speaker 1: it's not making any one money? Right, So it's not
Speaker 1: it's you know, it doesn't get you know, for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: But it would seem to me there's a correlation there,
Speaker 1: and that's a that's a very inconvenient truth for a
Speaker 1: lot of people who are trying to sell the drug
Speaker 1: that works half as well as removing Mega six oils
Speaker 1: from you.
Speaker 3: But significantly better than any other drug. I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: with good reason. It is put forward as a miracle,
Speaker 3: and it is as far as drug goes. What this
Speaker 3: is study is telling us is, yeah, that's great, but
Speaker 3: we can do even better than that without the drug. Now,
Speaker 3: just before, just before we go on. I just wanted
Speaker 3: to mention the thing I said to Tiff before we
Speaker 3: might talk about the reason why so migrains disproportionately affect women.
Speaker 3: It's the leading cause of disability for women under fifty.
Speaker 3: And the under fifty bit is important there because they're
Speaker 3: the women who are likely to be having periods. And
Speaker 3: we know that estrogen plays a key role in the
Speaker 3: pathway that influences the release of CGRP. So there's particular
Speaker 3: parts of the menstrual cycle and pregnancy and menopause that
Speaker 3: can provide really predictable cycles of vulnerability. So we know that.
Speaker 3: The other interesting thing we know is that men are
Speaker 3: catching up really really fast.
Speaker 1: So is that because men have got more and more
Speaker 1: estrogen and less testosterone?
Speaker 3: No, no, I wish, I wish I could come up
Speaker 3: with you a spectacular acclaim as that for you, Craig,
Speaker 3: But unfortunately it just means that we're now eating so
Speaker 3: much seed oil that it's overwhelming that the limited defense
Speaker 3: is the testosterone play, right, So testosterone waters down the
Speaker 3: effect and we're overcoming that by the amount of seed
Speaker 3: oil that we're consuming.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Now, just there's some people who are new
Speaker 1: to you and new to the show and they're going,
Speaker 1: fucking he fuck, this is the best thing I've ever heard,
Speaker 1: because my sister, my son, my daughter, my cousin, my boss,
Speaker 1: my employee needs to know.
Speaker 3: This.
Speaker 1: Just remind everyone what what the seed oils are?
Speaker 3: Oil? Yeah, yeah, Well, basically, if you go onto a
Speaker 3: supermarket and it says vegetable oil on the label, it's
Speaker 3: probably a seed oil. So the seed oils are oils
Speaker 3: that come from seed, so canola seeds, stoy bean, which
Speaker 3: is a legume but let's just go with that, and peanuts, almonds, sunflowers, safflower.
Speaker 3: I think I probably missed one or two, but you
Speaker 3: get the gear, the drift the ones that aren't. So
Speaker 3: there's a couple of vegetables which aren't seed oils, and
Speaker 3: that is olive oil. And so these as a class
Speaker 3: are what I would call fruit oils. So olive is
Speaker 3: a fruit, so is coconut, so coconut oil, olive oil,
Speaker 3: palm oil. Palm is a fruit as well. So those
Speaker 3: three are described as vegetable oils as well, but they
Speaker 3: are generally fine because they're quite low in a Mega
Speaker 3: six m.
Speaker 1: It's funny. The other day I went into the old
Speaker 1: soupy to try and find some of the world famous
Speaker 1: Gillespie good fat I think it's called good fat mayo.
Speaker 1: Is that the one? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, yeah, ye know that.
Speaker 1: It's in that short squat yes, round, of course, it's round,
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's like a really relatively small jar
Speaker 1: and it's like twenty bucks.
Speaker 3: You know, you can just make it yourself.
Speaker 1: Right yeah? Yeah? Have you seen me so olive oil?
Speaker 3: Done? Yeah?
Speaker 1: But how long is that? Isn't it going to go ranswerd.
Speaker 3: After a week? Do you not eat much mayo?
Speaker 1: Not a lot, but I like having a bit of mayo.
Speaker 1: But like the what's hilarious is like the seed oil
Speaker 1: version is like fucking five bucks for gallon. The olive
Speaker 1: oil stuff is like it's like trying to buy gold.
Speaker 1: It's like a little jar as twenty dollars and a
Speaker 1: big jar of the other one, who's five dollars. I'm like,
Speaker 1: even just this has got to be some kind of
Speaker 1: indication of what's in there, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean olive oil is a little bit
Speaker 3: more expensive than sunflower oil, which is what's being used
Speaker 3: in the other ones, but it's not that much more expensive.
Speaker 3: It's just you know what the market can bear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right. So so that what's that one
Speaker 1: that you said as a precursor to CGRP.
Speaker 3: So the oxylipans, So there's both the Mega three and
Speaker 3: the a Mega six X and Mega three's are the
Speaker 3: ones that reduce pain, a Mega six increases pain. They
Speaker 3: produce things called oxylipins, and the oxylipants from a Mega
Speaker 3: six proster gland, and being one of them is one
Speaker 3: of the important precursors to CGRP.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, everyone, none of this is medical advice.
Speaker 1: None of us are medical professionals. But like, let me
Speaker 1: just say this. If I suffered from migraines on a
Speaker 1: semi regular basis, I would do an N equals one,
Speaker 1: you know, study of one. That's me go, I'm going
Speaker 1: to do this for thirty days and see what happens.
Speaker 1: I can have any omega six, no seed oils. I'm
Speaker 1: just going to do.
Speaker 3: You know, So if you're wanting to do this, If
Speaker 3: you're wanting to do this, how would it look practically?
Speaker 3: First of all, you chuck out all the seed oils,
Speaker 3: wouldn't cook in them, right, So you'd throw out your
Speaker 3: spray t in that you use to spray on your
Speaker 3: pan of canola oil or whatever. You'd swap out to
Speaker 3: olive oil or something in your kitchen if you're doing
Speaker 3: any cooking, you wouldn't buy anything fried. You wouldn't buy
Speaker 3: anything that's crispy from a supermarket so because that's probably
Speaker 3: been fried as well. So biscuits, you know, yeah, chips,
Speaker 3: things like that. You wouldn't buy any of those things
Speaker 3: that have been fried. And you wouldn't buy dips because
Speaker 3: they're all some four. You wouldn't buy commercial mayo, et cetera,
Speaker 3: because you wouldn't buy sandwiches from a sandwich shop because
Speaker 3: they're using margarine made from seed oil. But you eliminate
Speaker 3: all those obvious sources of seed oil, you would massively
Speaker 3: cut the amount of a mega six you're consuming. And
Speaker 3: I reckon if you and that I mean in this
Speaker 3: trial they did it for sixteen weeks. I reckon if
Speaker 3: you ran it for a couple of months, you'd have
Speaker 3: noticeable impact. This study says you would see a measurable impact.
Speaker 1: And so that researcher, his name is Chris Ramsden, and
Speaker 1: it was with BMJ British Medical Journal that's right.
Speaker 3: I think in the article yep.
Speaker 1: Great, great, great, that's all I wanted to know, because
Speaker 1: I want to go read that. That's amazing. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: it's good that people have got something to try. You know,
Speaker 1: it's good that people can you know, share this and
Speaker 1: perhaps take it for a test drive and see what happens.
Speaker 1: The other thing of not only interest but fascination that
Speaker 1: we spoke about our fair was that an organization that
Speaker 1: I've never heard of called the National Crime Institute. Didn't
Speaker 1: even know.
Speaker 3: It's the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission, Well the ac I see.
Speaker 3: I know I called it the National Mischue when we're
Speaker 3: talking off here, but I've actually looked it up since.
Speaker 1: Right, all right whatever, Still haven't heard of that. But
Speaker 1: they they've been looking into our pooh and Wi. Let's
Speaker 1: be honest, that's gross. They've been analog look at TIFFs face,
Speaker 1: they've been analyzing TIFFs, pooh and Wi, and what have
Speaker 1: they come up with?
Speaker 3: Well, so they had They didn't just do it yesterday either,
Speaker 3: They've been doing it for ten years. So there's been
Speaker 3: a thing called the National Wastewater Drug Monitoring Program.
Speaker 1: So so good. How's your soup? Looking nounceive.
Speaker 2: Haven't eaten Dinny either.
Speaker 1: I hope you're not having any kind of casserole.
Speaker 3: So they have figured that the best way to figure out,
Speaker 3: you know that there's all sorts of ways to figure
Speaker 3: out what drugs people are taking, right, what illicit substances
Speaker 3: people are taking. One of them being to ask them.
Speaker 3: But you know, surprisingly people are less than honest when
Speaker 3: it comes to such things. So they say, well, maybe
Speaker 3: we'll get more accurate numbers if we don't ask them,
Speaker 3: but just check out what's going down the toilet. And
Speaker 3: so there's been this program in place for ten years
Speaker 3: and it is in hundreds of sites around the country
Speaker 3: where they measure all kinds of drugs in the wastewater
Speaker 3: from the waste systems of you know, the water treatment
Speaker 3: plants all around the country. So everywhere there's a water
Speaker 3: treatment plant, there's one of these things measuring what's in it.
Speaker 1: And that would be before it's been filtered or whatever
Speaker 1: they do treated.
Speaker 3: I'm not entirely across them. Well, it would certainly be
Speaker 3: before it's treated, because the point would be to get
Speaker 3: it in the wild. If you like, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well it's essentially pooh, and why you soup, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Let's be honest. I mean, it's just well, but what
Speaker 1: what do you think it is?
Speaker 3: Visceral It's his job as a podcast to bring in
Speaker 3: the audience into the room with them.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to paint a picture for the peeps.
Speaker 1: Shout out to those having a little savaloi casserole tonight.
Speaker 3: So I look, I can recommend the entire report because
Speaker 3: it is riveting stuff because it actually goes through all
Speaker 3: the big contenders for addictive substances, and they're measuring them
Speaker 3: all and have been measuring them for over ten years now.
Speaker 3: So you know, things like nicotine, how much are people
Speaker 3: actually consuming from all sources, So this would be it'd
Speaker 3: be ending up in there, whether it comes from a
Speaker 3: patch or from cigarettes or from you know, the stuff
Speaker 3: you got in your arms or whatever. So answer is
Speaker 3: hasn't changed in ten years. So the amount of nicotine
Speaker 3: ending up in the wastewater has not changed. Their smoking
Speaker 3: rates have dropped, but the amount of nicotine ending up
Speaker 3: in the way system stay yeah, exactly the same. And
Speaker 3: the level is they can actually estimate, so they estimate
Speaker 3: that the average city dweller in Australia is having about
Speaker 3: one and a half cigarettes a day and the average
Speaker 3: country dweller is having more like two and a half.
Speaker 1: So yeah, in terms of nicotine, like the equivalent of the.
Speaker 3: Equivalent in order to generate the amount of nicotine they're
Speaker 3: finding that that's how it's worked out. So the only
Speaker 3: takeaway from that is really that people in the country
Speaker 3: smoke or or access nicotine much more frequently than people
Speaker 3: in the city. But other than that, it hasn't changed
Speaker 3: in ten years.
Speaker 1: An interest has changed.
Speaker 3: Has a couple of interesting ones. Well, let's talk about
Speaker 3: one that's gone down. Alcohol has gone down pretty dramatically, actually.
Speaker 1: So that does prize me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so alcohol's dropped from levels. City and country are
Speaker 3: both about the same, add around one point three standard
Speaker 3: drinks per day per person wow out back in twenty
Speaker 3: and thirteen fourteen, and now it's down to around about
Speaker 3: The cities are doing a little bit better than the
Speaker 3: country on this one as well, but in the city
Speaker 3: it's down to about zero point eight of a drink
Speaker 3: per day and in the country it's about one per day.
Speaker 3: And that's a pretty significant drop over a ten year period,
Speaker 3: and it's part of it. It's not just a one off.
Speaker 3: It's an ongoing trend of decreasing alcohol consumption, so we're
Speaker 3: no longer getting our jollies from alcohol, which makes you wonder, well,
Speaker 3: what are we consuming instead of the alcohol any guesses?
Speaker 1: Yes, opiates, opioids or whatever. The opiates like painkillers, zanak.
Speaker 3: Not so much so oxycodone and fentanyl, which they are
Speaker 3: both measured obviously, Yeah, not so much oxycona. Oxycodone has
Speaker 3: been about the same the whole time. There was a
Speaker 3: little spike in COVID in the country for oxycodone, but
Speaker 3: other than that it's been about the same. Fentanyl similar
Speaker 3: same spike, about the same time, but pretty much flat
Speaker 3: the whole time. Heroin has been increasing lately, so pretty
Speaker 3: flat for a while, jumped up a bit during COVID, jumped,
Speaker 3: dropped off again, and then it's now sparking back up again.
Speaker 3: So in the last round we had a big, big
Speaker 3: jump so the country. Well, heroin, by the way, much
Speaker 3: more heavily consumed in the city than in the country.
Speaker 3: But in the city it dropped up from it jumped
Speaker 3: up from about if we look about a year ago,
Speaker 3: it jumped up from about eight doses per thousand people
Speaker 3: per day to about eleven in the most recent one
Speaker 3: in the city, so it's a pretty big jump. And
Speaker 3: in the country it's jumped up from about two and
Speaker 3: a half doses per person per day up to about
Speaker 3: eight and a half so up, yes, that's right.
Speaker 1: I mean that is nearly two hundred and something percent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, still nowhere near the city, but big jump.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So Heroin has been on the up and up. Cannabis
Speaker 3: pretty flat, nothing much going on there, not going up,
Speaker 3: not going down as usual a country double the rate
Speaker 3: in the country than in the city the rate. So
Speaker 3: they're all hitting the hash a little bit harder out
Speaker 3: in the country. But it hasn't changed much in ten years,
Speaker 3: is that right, Grandpa? Yeah, it is grad prior here anyway.
Speaker 3: Kedym jumped up quite a bit in the last round
Speaker 3: after not doing much for about a decade and just
Speaker 3: lately is chopped. But the big mover, the big mover,
Speaker 3: and this is a sixty nine percent increase in a year.
Speaker 1: Drum rollative. I feel like we're at the logis it
Speaker 1: is and the winner is twenty twenty five big improver
Speaker 1: of the year coming out of nowhere.
Speaker 3: Cocaine.
Speaker 1: Did you say cocaine?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a big One's an increase.
Speaker 1: I'm very ignorant when well, I did used to work
Speaker 1: at a rehab but in terms of like I just
Speaker 1: used to deal with the people that were dealing with
Speaker 1: the stuff, right, But is I don't think either of
Speaker 1: you are the one to ask, but maybe you know
Speaker 1: more than me. Is cocaine expensive? I feel like that's expensive.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's probably more expensive than other things. Tay.
Speaker 2: I normally just yeah, I just let them get access
Speaker 2: to my bank account directly, So I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not sure.
Speaker 1: Now yeah, wow, I wouldn't do that. But wow, and
Speaker 1: and so what's that gone from what to what?
Speaker 3: Ah? Let me have a look at exact numbers here,
Speaker 3: so it's yeah, it doesn't feel that big. Hold on,
Speaker 3: I'm looking at the wrong graft. That's why here we go.
Speaker 3: So it's gone from about six doses per thousand people
Speaker 3: per day to ten doses per thousand people per day,
Speaker 3: much bigger, much bigger in the city than in the country,
Speaker 3: although the country is catching up pretty quickly. So yeah,
Speaker 3: So the interesting thing is, Okay, at a at a
Speaker 3: sort of big level, well, alcohol is dropping off, but
Speaker 3: it's being replaced by much more powerful stimulants. So cocaine
Speaker 3: is a notch up from alcohol, and obviously heroin is too.
Speaker 3: So you're seeing the nicotine consumption staying flat when we
Speaker 3: really think it should be going down. You're seeing alcohol
Speaker 3: probably matching people's perception, which is that people are drinking
Speaker 3: less these days, but what people are substituting it for
Speaker 3: seems to be much harder stuff. So we're talking about
Speaker 3: heroin and cocaine and MDMA and MDA and methamphetamines and amphetamines,
Speaker 3: so all of these things are on the rights and
Speaker 3: that's a real concern. And my theory, without any justification
Speaker 3: and certainly no study in the BMJ to prove it,
Speaker 3: is if we start addicting the entire population all the
Speaker 3: time by giving them access to apps that are engineered
Speaker 3: for addiction, like social media and gaming and so on,
Speaker 3: then that addiction spills over into everything. You need a better,
Speaker 3: stronger hit then you can get from the more normal
Speaker 3: things once you are accessing dopamine hits all the time.
Speaker 1: Wow, that is interesting. If didn't you tell us on
Speaker 1: one episode once you had like half a joint when
Speaker 1: you were like seventeen or something. Oh yeah, how what
Speaker 1: I can't imagine?
Speaker 3: What are you?
Speaker 1: And as David calls it hash or the kids call
Speaker 1: it true true.
Speaker 2: At it twice and one time it was absolutely hilarious.
Speaker 2: Best thing ever. Second time will I knowingly had it
Speaker 2: because a boyfriend of mine smoked and I smoked cigarettes
Speaker 2: at the time, and I thought he just rolled me
Speaker 2: a cigarette with his rollies, but he'd put some in
Speaker 2: it and then was laughing, well, waiting for you to
Speaker 2: kick in. And I hate it, hate it?
Speaker 3: And what about you find? Are you find coke much better?
Speaker 2: Coke's much better? I'm on that daily.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're speaking of coke. Nothing to do. We'll come
Speaker 1: back to the topic at hand. But did you see
Speaker 1: the I don't know who it was. They put out
Speaker 1: a thing the other day saying that it was on
Speaker 1: the news, which is always a dubious source of scientific information.
Speaker 1: But anyway, they're talking about how having sweetness, artificial sweetness
Speaker 1: increase so soft drinks increases the chance of diabetes by
Speaker 1: type two diabetes by something like thirty six percent versus
Speaker 1: sugar twenty three percent. Did you see that?
Speaker 3: I did. It inspired me to go and have a
Speaker 3: look at the study. I wasn't too impressed with the
Speaker 3: study actually, because they didn't ad just for the weight
Speaker 3: of the person, so and the fact that there's a
Speaker 3: high probability that most people who are consuming artificial sweeteners
Speaker 3: are probably also consuming sugar. So it's not like people
Speaker 3: just decide I'm never touching sugar again in my life.
Speaker 3: I'm just having artificial sweetness. But it was an interesting
Speaker 3: study because it did at least raise the question because
Speaker 3: what seemed to what the study seemed to be saying
Speaker 3: is if you have artificial sweetness instead of sugar, it
Speaker 3: doesn't change your risk of type two diabetes, and that
Speaker 3: it's bad with sugar and it's still bad with artificial sweetness.
Speaker 3: It does, however, change your risk of being fat. So
Speaker 3: that was an interesting thing. It didn't it meant that
Speaker 3: the type two diabetes risk wasn't altered by the fact
Speaker 3: that you were thin if you were consuming artificial sweetness. Honestly,
Speaker 3: I felt the methodology in the study left a lot
Speaker 3: of room for improvement because of the things I mentioned
Speaker 3: before about what you included and excluded. Nevertheless, it does
Speaker 3: pose an interesting question, is there something going on there
Speaker 3: where we tell our body to expect sweetness and then
Speaker 3: don't deliver it, don't deliver the calories, which would cause
Speaker 3: you to going weight, but the body still expects the
Speaker 3: sweetness and makes an adjustment. That's an interesting area. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so I felt the study was interesting for that reason.
Speaker 1: I'd like to look at somebody with, you know, on
Speaker 1: an empty stomach, high Grellen levels or whatever, and get
Speaker 1: both of them to have a can of regular sugar
Speaker 1: coke versus no sugar coke and see whether or not
Speaker 1: there's a comparable insulin response to Yeah, I'd like to
Speaker 1: see what that is. I wonder if you know, because
Speaker 1: obviously you would think with a no sugar drink there'd
Speaker 1: be minimal, if any insulin response, but maybe that's not
Speaker 1: the case.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it would be interesting. I don't understand why
Speaker 3: those kinds of studies aren't being done, or if they are,
Speaker 3: why they're not being published, because I haven't seen anything
Speaker 3: that says that kind of thing. Maybe when you start
Speaker 3: the Harps Research Institute, you can that could be studying
Speaker 3: number one. You off, get up and running the other
Speaker 3: interesting Harper Institute.
Speaker 1: That'd be hilarious.
Speaker 3: Go go the other one, just a quick one. Did
Speaker 3: you see they've got a pill for a zimpic now,
Speaker 3: so using the the GLP one stuff rather than having
Speaker 3: to inject it just a once daily pill. It's in
Speaker 3: trials at the moment and does it not quite as
Speaker 3: effective as a zempic, but still still makes you nauseous
Speaker 3: enough not to eat.
Speaker 1: I have an interesting story about that that I cannot
Speaker 1: tell you on the show, but I will tell you
Speaker 1: when we finish TIFFs. Looking at me, mate, always good
Speaker 1: to chat with you. Let's wind up so I can
Speaker 1: tell you that little story. But we appreciate you and
Speaker 1: you listeners, and also just go to the New Project
Speaker 1: Facebook page and tell me what you think we might
Speaker 1: do for the two thousandth episode. I'm leaning towards something
Speaker 1: live so we can have a bit of interaction, a
Speaker 1: little bit of fun and a bit of a reflection,
Speaker 1: and I'd suggest it might go for longer than an
Speaker 1: hour or an hour and a half and we'll just
Speaker 1: waffle on and then if anyone wants to actually listen
Speaker 1: to it, they can. If they want to skip it
Speaker 1: and go to two thousand and one, they can also
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 3: TIF.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you, Thank you, thanks lads, Thanks Bilspo pleasure