1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: I get at it's you project, it's gals Bow, it's cook, Oh, 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: it's harp so and it's another day on the typ journey. 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: We're rocketing. We're rocketing towards two thousand episodes. If you've 4 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: got an idea what we might do for the two 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: thousandth t if I was thinking of maybe doing a 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: live episode with like fifty people or something live recorded 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: live with people asking what are you looking at me 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: like that? For? Is that a bad idea? 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: What do you mean fifty people, fifty people watching? 10 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Not for me? No, no, no, I mean like a live 11 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: zoom call where fifty people can sit in the zoom 12 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: room like we're doing right now with Golespo, but another 13 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: fifty vagabonds. 14 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 2: Oh that would be so fun. 15 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: Who can sit in, you know, on mute and then 16 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: at a given time ask questions, either type questions through 17 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: or ask verbally turning on the old mic. 18 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: But how do you pick the fifty? 19 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: Well, it's whoever sends us one thousand dollars in small 20 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: unmarked bills to No, I don't know, I don't know. 21 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 1: I haven't thought it through. Well, see here's the problem too. 22 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: When you do stuff like that, sometimes people go yeah, yeah, yeah, 23 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: then they don't show right. 24 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, and soon they've all got to type stuff in. 25 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: I was like, that sounds way more like a Melissa 26 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 2: level of attention to detail than a Tiff Cook. 27 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's like you can type right now 28 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: in the old chat you can write, hey, harps, get 29 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: closer to the microphone that never works. 30 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: You never listen to that. 31 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: I don't read it and I don't listen to you anyway. Calls. 32 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: But what do you think we should do for a 33 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: thousandth two thousandth? 34 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 3: I don't know. I have very little experience with such things. 35 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's not often you can catch him out 36 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: to your visit. 37 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 3: Absolutely no idea. Have you tried asking Ai? 38 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? Well maybe I asked a tipple to it right now? 39 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 3: If asking Ai, what should a podcast do for the 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 3: two thousand episode? 41 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: Have you got any ideas too? Yeah? 42 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 3: See what it comes up with. 43 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: Oh I just drank some water. Very bad protocol on 44 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: the bloody podcast. But who cares? Well whilst she's doing that, 45 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: you put up your hand when you've got that. But GILESPO, 46 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: welcome back. Thank you so much for joining us as 47 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: you do once fortnite. Just so you know David's I 48 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: don't know what would you call it? What do you 49 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: call raisin Hell? 50 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 3: Is that? 51 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: What just were your I was going to say suppository. 52 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: What I meant was repository. 53 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 3: Repository. 54 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, David's suppository of quality work. No, his repository 55 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: of articles. Is Is it raisinhell dot com? 56 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: Is it on? No? No, it's just on substack and 57 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 3: in search for which search for raisin Hell on substack. 58 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: And that is R A I S I N hble 59 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: l if have you got any gold for us? Have 60 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: you got any wisdom? 61 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 3: The reverse? 62 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: The creative Genius. 63 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 2: Flip the mic two thousand and two thousand, Rapid Fire 64 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: Wisdom two thousand seconds, where you give your twenty most 65 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: powerful lessons from two thousand episodes. Audience in the room 66 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: many a bit mare. 67 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: Maybe you need to Maybe you need to give it 68 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: a bit more context iff and tell it what the 69 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 3: show is about. It might be able to do better. 70 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: Chatters knows everything about my life, man. Chatters are best mates. 71 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 1: You know. 72 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 2: Chatters knows all about heart. 73 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: That's true. If I asked my Chatters, it would say 74 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: something different because it and my are besties. Although we 75 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: did have a fight. 76 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: The other day, Oh, harps in the hot seat, the 77 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: uncensored roast and therapy session. 78 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 3: There we go. 79 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: Don't need you, Yeah, we don't need that. Already got 80 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: enough issues. I'm already in therapy three times a week. 81 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: All right, gillespo, welcome back to the show. As I said, 82 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: so you wrote an article. There was a new one 83 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: out today which I haven't read yet, apologize, but you 84 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: wrote one about a week ago, I would think now 85 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: called Engineered for Pain, the Untold Story of Migraine, seed, 86 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: oils and profit. And yeah, that's a really good article. Everyone, 87 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: if you want to go, have a read of it. 88 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: But if you can't be bothered, just tune in right 89 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: now because the Great Man is going to give us 90 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: a little bit of a reader's digest version of what 91 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: that was about. 92 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 3: So have you have you ever suffered from migraine? Set all? 93 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: I have. I've been very lucky. I don't know why, 94 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: but yeah, I do have friends who absolutely crippled by them. 95 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: And yeah, hole got to be in a dark room, 96 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: eyes closed, no noise, no movement. Yeah, so it's I 97 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: personally can't understand, but I've been around it very debility. 98 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been around it quite a bit, because my 99 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 3: wife has had them at quite bad at time in 100 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 3: her life, and some of my kids have as well. 101 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: If you ever had migraines. 102 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I got them monthly when I hit adolescents for 103 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: a period of time was horrible. 104 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 3: There's a good reason for that, and we're going to 105 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 3: talk about that a little bit. 106 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: How long did they last? How long? Sorry, David, how 107 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:19,679 Speaker 1: long did they last? 108 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: They were brutal. They were usually just twenty four hours, 109 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 2: but I would vomit like literally every hour on the hour, 110 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 2: and then that would just slowly pit her out longer 111 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 2: and longer. 112 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 3: It was. 113 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: Was it exactly when you got your period or was 114 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: it just during that time? 115 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 2: It was the few months before it was leading up 116 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: to that time, because but I remember the school, my 117 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 2: school teacher, one of my school teachers. I kept going 118 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: home once a month and they said then they just 119 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 2: started asking me if you got your period yet? I 120 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: think this might be hormonal. 121 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was horrible, horr Right, So when you got 122 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: your period that stopped? 123 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 2: Yeah? 124 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, it is interesting. We might talk a 125 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 3: little bit about why that might be. But let's migrains 126 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: affect an awful lot of people, and they aren't just 127 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 3: headaches there, you know, as Tiff described, really crippling can 128 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 3: be for sort of up to twenty four hours, and 129 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 3: they can be multiple times a month. I mean TIFFs 130 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 3: were just once a month. But people can who suffer 131 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: from this, and it is a lot of people. You know, 132 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 3: it is debilitating and you know it can affect their career, 133 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: can affect their job because it just can't work. You 134 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 3: can't go to work, you know, you can't look after kids, 135 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 3: you can't do anything. And so it's been, as you 136 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 3: might imagine, a bit of a priority for the drug 137 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 3: makers to come up with something that they can do 138 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 3: about it, because you know, panodole and neurophin and so 139 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: on just aren't going to do anything for you. If 140 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 3: you would have experienced that taking a couple of panadol 141 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 3: would done much for your migraine. It's just something you 142 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 3: have to work through, right ye. Yeah. And there's a 143 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 3: good reason for it, because there's a lot more going 144 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 3: on than just a headache. The headache sort of the 145 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 3: final bit of what's going on. It starts with what 146 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 3: they call, you know, sort of a spreading well, well 147 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 3: they call it a CSDE or cortical spreading depression, which 148 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 3: is just a wave of electrical activity in the brain, 149 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 3: which often is what causes the aura that a lot 150 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: of people describe. So they get an aura before the 151 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 3: pain where you know, and they know it's coming, so 152 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 3: that it's not yet hurting, but they know it's about 153 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 3: to hit, and that probably makes it even scarier. But 154 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 3: I guess it gives them warning to get into a 155 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 3: dark room, calm down, stay out of the way of 156 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: noise and light and so on. But what's going on 157 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 3: in a migraine has probably since the early nineties started 158 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 3: to be a lot clearer since they discovered some of 159 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: the peptides that were involved in the brain, and in 160 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 3: particular one called CGRP, which I won't bother digging out. 161 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 3: People can read the articles that are interested in it. 162 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: But CGRP is important because the drug companies have found 163 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 3: that they can suppress the impact of CGRP. So CGRP 164 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 3: seems to be critically involved in the pain mechanism, so 165 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 3: the spreading pain inside the brain, So just to be 166 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 3: sure to be clear on what's going on, CGRP is 167 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 3: what's known as a vasodilator, so it dilates the veins 168 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 3: the blood vessels in the brain, particularly around the edge 169 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 3: of the brain the Meninji's and widens and causes the throbbing, 170 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 3: pulsating pain that's associated with migraines. Now, the drug companies, 171 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 3: as soon as they found that, started working on are 172 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 3: there things we can do to block CGRP, like, you know, 173 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 3: can we interfere with the receptors for CGRP and the brain, 174 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. Working on a lot. In the 175 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 3: last decade or so, some powerful drugs have come out 176 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 3: which do exactly that. So those drugs actually counteract CGRP 177 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 3: in the brain and the result is that people who 178 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 3: are given these drugs experience two to two and a 179 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 3: half less migraine days per month, which is a significant impact. 180 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 3: It's way beyond anything you know, anyone's ever managed before 181 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 3: with any sort of standard pain killer, because it's not 182 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 3: actually a painkiller, it's it's targeting the exact cares and 183 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: so for that reason, it's powerful. It works. We know 184 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 3: it works, and these drugs are now obviously finding themselves 185 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 3: a very very big mark because this is something that impacts, 186 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: you know, large percentages of the workforce. What's all this 187 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 3: got to do with seag oils. The interesting thing is 188 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 3: that you might say, Okay, well, that's all fabulous information 189 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: about the CGRPs and how that impacts the brain, and 190 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: it's great that we've got drugs that work on them, 191 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 3: But what causes the CGRPs to be there in the 192 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 3: first place is the more interesting question. What causes people 193 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 3: to have that reaction, what causes them to need a 194 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 3: drug to counteract them, And that's where some really interesting 195 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: research has been done on what's called oxylipands, which are 196 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 3: sort of precursors to the CGRPs, and in particular ones 197 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: which are created from amiga six fats. Now amiga six fats, 198 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 3: you will remember, so we've talked before about seed oils, 199 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: so things like carnola oil, sunflower oil, you know what 200 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 3: is generally disc as vegetable oil on the label of foods, 201 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 3: you know, but no vegetables were harmed in the creation. 202 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 3: They're actually fats that are created from seeds. So there's 203 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 3: three classes of oil. There's animal fats, there's seed fats, 204 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 3: and there's oil that you put in your car mineral 205 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 3: from minerals. So vegetable oils largely created from seeds. Some flowers, aflower, canola, 206 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 3: et cetera. All of them are very very high in 207 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 3: AMEGA six polyunsaturated fats. And one of the problems is 208 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 3: that the rate of growth in migraines, So migraines have 209 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 3: increased in the population since nineteen ninety, since they started 210 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 3: counting this sort of thing, by almost sixty percent. So 211 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 3: since nineteen ninety, the incidence of migraine in the population 212 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 3: has increased by almost sixty percent. So something's going on 213 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 3: in the environment. And the interesting thing, and what prompted 214 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 3: me to write this piece is that I saw I 215 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 3: came across, just quite by chance, a really excellent piece 216 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 3: of research. In nutrition science, you rarely see really high 217 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 3: quality research. It's usually sort of, you know, associative type stuff. 218 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 3: You know, men who have big cars, you know, have headaches, 219 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 3: and Tiff was going somewhere else with that one, but 220 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 3: you know that sort of like associating two things and 221 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 3: saying these two things correlate, therefore one causes the other. 222 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 3: That's the kind of research you tend to get in 223 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 3: nutrition because doing any other kind of research and nutrition 224 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 3: is really really hard. It's hard to do a double 225 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 3: blind trial in nutrition because you know, the person knows 226 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 3: whether they're eating a steak or whether they're eating ice cream, 227 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 3: so you tend to get mostly rubbish. But there was 228 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 3: this really really high quality done targeting this question, published 229 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 3: in the British Medical journal, very good publication. The people 230 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 3: doing the trial was the National Institute's of Health in 231 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 3: the United States, in particular a fellow by the name 232 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 3: of Chris Ramsden who has been assigned as there for 233 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 3: decades and has been looking at amiga six fats for 234 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 3: a long time, and he asked the question, is there 235 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 3: a way we could run a trial to show whether 236 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 3: or not amiga six fats in some way implicated in 237 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 3: this massive rise in migraines. And what he did was 238 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: organized exactly that. So he broke a trial group of 239 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 3: people into three groups. One group ate exactly the way 240 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 3: they always did, nothing unusual. The second group was asked 241 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 3: to increase the amount of fish they ate, so therefore 242 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 3: increased the Amega three in their diet. And the third 243 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 3: group were asked to do that and swap out all 244 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 3: the vegetable oils and seed oils in their diet instead 245 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 3: of using sunflowl oil or canol oils, which olive oil 246 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 3: or animal fats and intentionally avoid seed oils in the diet. 247 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 3: And it reduced the amount of Amega six containing fats 248 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 3: they were consuming by about a third, sorry, so by 249 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 3: about two thirds. So I dropped them from seven percent 250 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 3: of calories to two percent of calories. So it was 251 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 3: a fairly effective trial. It ran for sixteen weeks. All 252 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 3: of them were pre screened to be migraine sufferers. The 253 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 3: effects in the group that dropped the Amega six were 254 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 3: truly massive. Now remember that what I said before about 255 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 3: the drugs. The most powerful drug that's ever been invented, 256 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 3: took out two and a half migraine days per month. Yes, 257 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 3: the group that all they did, they didn't do anything else. 258 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 3: They just stopped consuming Amega three sorry Amega six fats, 259 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 3: so stopped consuming seed oils. Four less migraine days per month. 260 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: That's bloody, I mean, no. 261 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 3: Drugs, nothing. All they did was reduced the amount of 262 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: seed oils they consumed and they got four less days 263 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 3: per month. Now, I came across this because I happened 264 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 3: to see it in a story in the New York 265 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 3: Times about this trial, and the story featured the lady 266 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 3: that I put in my article, which was. She was 267 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 3: one of the participants in the trial. This is now 268 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 3: three years late after the trial. The trial was completed 269 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one and published I think in twenty 270 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 3: twenty two, and she's been doing it ever since. She said, 271 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 3: there's no way I am going back to eating the 272 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 3: way I was, because I've been paying free now for 273 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 3: years and never been paying free my entire life. She's 274 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 3: fifty eight. 275 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: Wow. 276 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 3: And this accords with something that I've seen mentioned every 277 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 3: now and then by people who follow paleo diets. Quite 278 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 3: by accident. Part of the paleo diet is you tend 279 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 3: to eat animal fats and avoid seed oils. And a 280 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 3: lot of people have sort of anecdotally said you see 281 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 3: it in the chat groups and sign people say, oh, 282 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 3: I haven't had migraines since I stopped started eating this way. 283 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 3: You know, has anyone else experience that? And a lot 284 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 3: of people say, yeah, actually I have, And it accords 285 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 3: with my own experience from the moment we stopped eating 286 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 3: seed oils. As a household, my wife has not had 287 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 3: a migraine, my kids have not had migraines. So that's 288 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 3: all mabulous. 289 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: How long has that, mate, overwhell. 290 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 3: I put toxic oil. The book I wrote about this 291 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 3: out in twenty fourteen, so that's yeah, so that's over 292 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: eleven ten years now and the hang on, no. 293 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: I just I want to ask a couple of questions. 294 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: So sorry, So that's eleven years. That's fucking amazing. On 295 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: how often was your wife having migraines? 296 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 3: Ah, look, I'd say it to a couple of time. Times 297 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 3: a month. Would have been a couple of times a month. 298 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, so she was having give or take twenty to 299 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: twenty five migraines a year and hasn't had one migraine 300 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: in any year, no sense, that's incredible. And yeah, that's incredible. 301 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: The interesting thing about this is this is the first 302 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 3: time I've seen real high quality evidence about this. So 303 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 3: this is one of those things where drug companies have 304 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 3: been really interested in it because as soon as they 305 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 3: discovered something you could you know, nail you could hit 306 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 3: with a hammer, which is the CGRP, they said, well, 307 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 3: there's a drug target, let's do that. Yes, but they 308 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 3: stopped there thinking there, Well, this research has done. They said, okay, 309 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 3: but where's the CGRP come from? And this is where 310 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 3: they've dug into the mechanism and said, what's really going 311 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 3: on here is that Amiga six fats, uniquely a Mega 312 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 3: six fats. These are the only things that can do 313 00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 3: it create a precursor to CGRP prostaglandin or it's a 314 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 3: class of oxylipins which causes the CGRP to be created. 315 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 3: And they've said, what if we took the A Mega 316 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 3: six fats out, what would happen? Their theory was, what 317 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 3: would happen is it's stopped migraines. Turns out they're right, 318 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 3: So there is a very simple solution here. Now, as 319 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 3: with all things about seed oils, there's always going to 320 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 3: be people to have a propensity for the particular condition 321 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 3: no matter what, and there'll be people who try this 322 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 3: and they still get migraines. Maybe not as many, but 323 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 3: they still get them. But what this shows is that 324 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 3: the non drug based solution to this is more powerful 325 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 3: than even the most powerful drug based solution, the miraculous 326 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 3: one that they've already released. And I just find that fascinating. 327 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 3: So the full write up, as you say, is in 328 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 3: that is in that post and people can go and 329 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 3: look at the read the article if they want to 330 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 3: read the study if they're interested in that funny? 331 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: Isn't that funny? How? Okay, So you've known this for 332 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: at least eleven years, and I'm sure a lot of 333 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: other people have known it. How I mean, I've been 334 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: in and around health, wellness, fitness, owning gyms, blah blah blah. 335 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: I've never heard of this like this is like, I mean, 336 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: until I saw the article, Like have you ever heard 337 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: of this tip? Like, isn't it funny that there's something 338 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: that's basically twice as good as the best drug? But 339 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: it's not making any one money? Right, So it's not 340 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: it's you know, it doesn't get you know, for whatever reason. 341 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: But it would seem to me there's a correlation there, 342 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: and that's a that's a very inconvenient truth for a 343 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: lot of people who are trying to sell the drug 344 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: that works half as well as removing Mega six oils 345 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: from you. 346 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 3: But significantly better than any other drug. I mean, you know, 347 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 3: with good reason. It is put forward as a miracle, 348 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 3: and it is as far as drug goes. What this 349 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: is study is telling us is, yeah, that's great, but 350 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 3: we can do even better than that without the drug. Now, 351 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 3: just before, just before we go on. I just wanted 352 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: to mention the thing I said to Tiff before we 353 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 3: might talk about the reason why so migrains disproportionately affect women. 354 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 3: It's the leading cause of disability for women under fifty. 355 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 3: And the under fifty bit is important there because they're 356 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 3: the women who are likely to be having periods. And 357 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 3: we know that estrogen plays a key role in the 358 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 3: pathway that influences the release of CGRP. So there's particular 359 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 3: parts of the menstrual cycle and pregnancy and menopause that 360 00:20:54,800 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 3: can provide really predictable cycles of vulnerability. So we know that. 361 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 3: The other interesting thing we know is that men are 362 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,719 Speaker 3: catching up really really fast. 363 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: So is that because men have got more and more 364 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: estrogen and less testosterone? 365 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 3: No, no, I wish, I wish I could come up 366 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 3: with you a spectacular acclaim as that for you, Craig, 367 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 3: But unfortunately it just means that we're now eating so 368 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 3: much seed oil that it's overwhelming that the limited defense 369 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 3: is the testosterone play, right, So testosterone waters down the 370 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 3: effect and we're overcoming that by the amount of seed 371 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 3: oil that we're consuming. 372 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Now, just there's some people who are new 373 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: to you and new to the show and they're going, 374 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: fucking he fuck, this is the best thing I've ever heard, 375 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: because my sister, my son, my daughter, my cousin, my boss, 376 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: my employee needs to know. 377 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 3: This. 378 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: Just remind everyone what what the seed oils are? 379 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 3: Oil? Yeah, yeah, Well, basically, if you go onto a 380 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 3: supermarket and it says vegetable oil on the label, it's 381 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 3: probably a seed oil. So the seed oils are oils 382 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 3: that come from seed, so canola seeds, stoy bean, which 383 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 3: is a legume but let's just go with that, and peanuts, almonds, sunflowers, safflower. 384 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 3: I think I probably missed one or two, but you 385 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 3: get the gear, the drift the ones that aren't. So 386 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 3: there's a couple of vegetables which aren't seed oils, and 387 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 3: that is olive oil. And so these as a class 388 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 3: are what I would call fruit oils. So olive is 389 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 3: a fruit, so is coconut, so coconut oil, olive oil, 390 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 3: palm oil. Palm is a fruit as well. So those 391 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 3: three are described as vegetable oils as well, but they 392 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 3: are generally fine because they're quite low in a Mega 393 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 3: six m. 394 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: It's funny. The other day I went into the old 395 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: soupy to try and find some of the world famous 396 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: Gillespie good fat I think it's called good fat mayo. 397 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 1: Is that the one? Yeah? 398 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, yeah, ye know that. 399 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: It's in that short squat yes, round, of course, it's round, 400 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: but it's it's it's like a really relatively small jar 401 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: and it's like twenty bucks. 402 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 3: You know, you can just make it yourself. 403 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: Right yeah? Yeah? Have you seen me so olive oil? 404 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 3: Done? Yeah? 405 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: But how long is that? Isn't it going to go ranswerd. 406 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 3: After a week? Do you not eat much mayo? 407 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: Not a lot, but I like having a bit of mayo. 408 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: But like the what's hilarious is like the seed oil 409 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,719 Speaker 1: version is like fucking five bucks for gallon. The olive 410 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: oil stuff is like it's like trying to buy gold. 411 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: It's like a little jar as twenty dollars and a 412 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: big jar of the other one, who's five dollars. I'm like, 413 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: even just this has got to be some kind of 414 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: indication of what's in there, you know. 415 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean olive oil is a little bit 416 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 3: more expensive than sunflower oil, which is what's being used 417 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 3: in the other ones, but it's not that much more expensive. 418 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 3: It's just you know what the market can bear. 419 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right. So so that what's that one 420 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: that you said as a precursor to CGRP. 421 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 3: So the oxylipans, So there's both the Mega three and 422 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 3: the a Mega six X and Mega three's are the 423 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 3: ones that reduce pain, a Mega six increases pain. They 424 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 3: produce things called oxylipins, and the oxylipants from a Mega 425 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 3: six proster gland, and being one of them is one 426 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 3: of the important precursors to CGRP. 427 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, everyone, none of this is medical advice. 428 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: None of us are medical professionals. But like, let me 429 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: just say this. If I suffered from migraines on a 430 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: semi regular basis, I would do an N equals one, 431 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: you know, study of one. That's me go, I'm going 432 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: to do this for thirty days and see what happens. 433 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: I can have any omega six, no seed oils. I'm 434 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: just going to do. 435 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 3: You know, So if you're wanting to do this, If 436 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 3: you're wanting to do this, how would it look practically? 437 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 3: First of all, you chuck out all the seed oils, 438 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 3: wouldn't cook in them, right, So you'd throw out your 439 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 3: spray t in that you use to spray on your 440 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 3: pan of canola oil or whatever. You'd swap out to 441 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 3: olive oil or something in your kitchen if you're doing 442 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,239 Speaker 3: any cooking, you wouldn't buy anything fried. You wouldn't buy 443 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 3: anything that's crispy from a supermarket so because that's probably 444 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 3: been fried as well. So biscuits, you know, yeah, chips, 445 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 3: things like that. You wouldn't buy any of those things 446 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 3: that have been fried. And you wouldn't buy dips because 447 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 3: they're all some four. You wouldn't buy commercial mayo, et cetera, 448 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 3: because you wouldn't buy sandwiches from a sandwich shop because 449 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 3: they're using margarine made from seed oil. But you eliminate 450 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 3: all those obvious sources of seed oil, you would massively 451 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 3: cut the amount of a mega six you're consuming. And 452 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 3: I reckon if you and that I mean in this 453 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 3: trial they did it for sixteen weeks. I reckon if 454 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 3: you ran it for a couple of months, you'd have 455 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 3: noticeable impact. This study says you would see a measurable impact. 456 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: And so that researcher, his name is Chris Ramsden, and 457 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: it was with BMJ British Medical Journal that's right. 458 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 3: I think in the article yep. 459 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: Great, great, great, that's all I wanted to know, because 460 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: I want to go read that. That's amazing. Well, you know, 461 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: it's good that people have got something to try. You know, 462 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: it's good that people can you know, share this and 463 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: perhaps take it for a test drive and see what happens. 464 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: The other thing of not only interest but fascination that 465 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: we spoke about our fair was that an organization that 466 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: I've never heard of called the National Crime Institute. Didn't 467 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: even know. 468 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 3: It's the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission, Well the ac I see. 469 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 3: I know I called it the National Mischue when we're 470 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 3: talking off here, but I've actually looked it up since. 471 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: Right, all right whatever, Still haven't heard of that. But 472 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: they they've been looking into our pooh and Wi. Let's 473 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: be honest, that's gross. They've been analog look at TIFFs face, 474 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: they've been analyzing TIFFs, pooh and Wi, and what have 475 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: they come up with? 476 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 3: Well, so they had They didn't just do it yesterday either, 477 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 3: They've been doing it for ten years. So there's been 478 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 3: a thing called the National Wastewater Drug Monitoring Program. 479 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 1: So so good. How's your soup? Looking nounceive. 480 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: Haven't eaten Dinny either. 481 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: I hope you're not having any kind of casserole. 482 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 3: So they have figured that the best way to figure out, 483 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 3: you know that there's all sorts of ways to figure 484 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 3: out what drugs people are taking, right, what illicit substances 485 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 3: people are taking. One of them being to ask them. 486 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 3: But you know, surprisingly people are less than honest when 487 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 3: it comes to such things. So they say, well, maybe 488 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 3: we'll get more accurate numbers if we don't ask them, 489 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 3: but just check out what's going down the toilet. And 490 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 3: so there's been this program in place for ten years 491 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 3: and it is in hundreds of sites around the country 492 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 3: where they measure all kinds of drugs in the wastewater 493 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 3: from the waste systems of you know, the water treatment 494 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 3: plants all around the country. So everywhere there's a water 495 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 3: treatment plant, there's one of these things measuring what's in it. 496 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: And that would be before it's been filtered or whatever 497 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: they do treated. 498 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 3: I'm not entirely across them. Well, it would certainly be 499 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: before it's treated, because the point would be to get 500 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 3: it in the wild. If you like, Yeah. 501 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: Well it's essentially pooh, and why you soup, isn't it. 502 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: Let's be honest. I mean, it's just well, but what 503 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: what do you think it is? 504 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 3: Visceral It's his job as a podcast to bring in 505 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 3: the audience into the room with them. 506 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to paint a picture for the peeps. 507 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,479 Speaker 1: Shout out to those having a little savaloi casserole tonight. 508 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 3: So I look, I can recommend the entire report because 509 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 3: it is riveting stuff because it actually goes through all 510 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 3: the big contenders for addictive substances, and they're measuring them 511 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: all and have been measuring them for over ten years now. 512 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 3: So you know, things like nicotine, how much are people 513 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 3: actually consuming from all sources, So this would be it'd 514 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 3: be ending up in there, whether it comes from a 515 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 3: patch or from cigarettes or from you know, the stuff 516 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,719 Speaker 3: you got in your arms or whatever. So answer is 517 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 3: hasn't changed in ten years. So the amount of nicotine 518 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 3: ending up in the wastewater has not changed. Their smoking 519 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 3: rates have dropped, but the amount of nicotine ending up 520 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 3: in the way system stay yeah, exactly the same. And 521 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 3: the level is they can actually estimate, so they estimate 522 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 3: that the average city dweller in Australia is having about 523 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 3: one and a half cigarettes a day and the average 524 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 3: country dweller is having more like two and a half. 525 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, in terms of nicotine, like the equivalent of the. 526 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 3: Equivalent in order to generate the amount of nicotine they're 527 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 3: finding that that's how it's worked out. So the only 528 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 3: takeaway from that is really that people in the country 529 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 3: smoke or or access nicotine much more frequently than people 530 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 3: in the city. But other than that, it hasn't changed 531 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 3: in ten years. 532 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: An interest has changed. 533 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 3: Has a couple of interesting ones. Well, let's talk about 534 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 3: one that's gone down. Alcohol has gone down pretty dramatically, actually. 535 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: So that does prize me. 536 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, so alcohol's dropped from levels. City and country are 537 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 3: both about the same, add around one point three standard 538 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 3: drinks per day per person wow out back in twenty 539 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 3: and thirteen fourteen, and now it's down to around about 540 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 3: The cities are doing a little bit better than the 541 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 3: country on this one as well, but in the city 542 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 3: it's down to about zero point eight of a drink 543 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 3: per day and in the country it's about one per day. 544 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 3: And that's a pretty significant drop over a ten year period, 545 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 3: and it's part of it. It's not just a one off. 546 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 3: It's an ongoing trend of decreasing alcohol consumption, so we're 547 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 3: no longer getting our jollies from alcohol, which makes you wonder, well, 548 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 3: what are we consuming instead of the alcohol any guesses? 549 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: Yes, opiates, opioids or whatever. The opiates like painkillers, zanak. 550 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 3: Not so much so oxycodone and fentanyl, which they are 551 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:08,719 Speaker 3: both measured obviously, Yeah, not so much oxycona. Oxycodone has 552 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 3: been about the same the whole time. There was a 553 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 3: little spike in COVID in the country for oxycodone, but 554 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 3: other than that it's been about the same. Fentanyl similar 555 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 3: same spike, about the same time, but pretty much flat 556 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 3: the whole time. Heroin has been increasing lately, so pretty 557 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 3: flat for a while, jumped up a bit during COVID, jumped, 558 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 3: dropped off again, and then it's now sparking back up again. 559 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 3: So in the last round we had a big, big 560 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 3: jump so the country. Well, heroin, by the way, much 561 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 3: more heavily consumed in the city than in the country. 562 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 3: But in the city it dropped up from it jumped 563 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 3: up from about if we look about a year ago, 564 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 3: it jumped up from about eight doses per thousand people 565 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 3: per day to about eleven in the most recent one 566 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 3: in the city, so it's a pretty big jump. And 567 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 3: in the country it's jumped up from about two and 568 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 3: a half doses per person per day up to about 569 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 3: eight and a half so up, yes, that's right. 570 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: I mean that is nearly two hundred and something percent. 571 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, still nowhere near the city, but big jump. 572 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 573 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 3: So Heroin has been on the up and up. Cannabis 574 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 3: pretty flat, nothing much going on there, not going up, 575 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 3: not going down as usual a country double the rate 576 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 3: in the country than in the city the rate. So 577 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 3: they're all hitting the hash a little bit harder out 578 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 3: in the country. But it hasn't changed much in ten years, 579 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 3: is that right, Grandpa? Yeah, it is grad prior here anyway. 580 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 3: Kedym jumped up quite a bit in the last round 581 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 3: after not doing much for about a decade and just 582 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 3: lately is chopped. But the big mover, the big mover, 583 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 3: and this is a sixty nine percent increase in a year. 584 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: Drum rollative. I feel like we're at the logis it 585 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: is and the winner is twenty twenty five big improver 586 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: of the year coming out of nowhere. 587 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 3: Cocaine. 588 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: Did you say cocaine? 589 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a big One's an increase. 590 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: I'm very ignorant when well, I did used to work 591 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: at a rehab but in terms of like I just 592 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: used to deal with the people that were dealing with 593 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: the stuff, right, But is I don't think either of 594 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: you are the one to ask, but maybe you know 595 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: more than me. Is cocaine expensive? I feel like that's expensive. 596 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's probably more expensive than other things. Tay. 597 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 2: I normally just yeah, I just let them get access 598 00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 2: to my bank account directly, So I'm not sure. 599 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not sure. 600 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: Now yeah, wow, I wouldn't do that. But wow, and 601 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: and so what's that gone from what to what? 602 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 3: Ah? Let me have a look at exact numbers here, 603 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 3: so it's yeah, it doesn't feel that big. Hold on, 604 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 3: I'm looking at the wrong graft. That's why here we go. 605 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 3: So it's gone from about six doses per thousand people 606 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 3: per day to ten doses per thousand people per day, 607 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 3: much bigger, much bigger in the city than in the country, 608 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 3: although the country is catching up pretty quickly. So yeah, 609 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 3: So the interesting thing is, Okay, at a at a 610 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 3: sort of big level, well, alcohol is dropping off, but 611 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 3: it's being replaced by much more powerful stimulants. So cocaine 612 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 3: is a notch up from alcohol, and obviously heroin is too. 613 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 3: So you're seeing the nicotine consumption staying flat when we 614 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 3: really think it should be going down. You're seeing alcohol 615 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 3: probably matching people's perception, which is that people are drinking 616 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 3: less these days, but what people are substituting it for 617 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 3: seems to be much harder stuff. So we're talking about 618 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 3: heroin and cocaine and MDMA and MDA and methamphetamines and amphetamines, 619 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 3: so all of these things are on the rights and 620 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 3: that's a real concern. And my theory, without any justification 621 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 3: and certainly no study in the BMJ to prove it, 622 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 3: is if we start addicting the entire population all the 623 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 3: time by giving them access to apps that are engineered 624 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 3: for addiction, like social media and gaming and so on, 625 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 3: then that addiction spills over into everything. You need a better, 626 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 3: stronger hit then you can get from the more normal 627 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 3: things once you are accessing dopamine hits all the time. 628 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: Wow, that is interesting. If didn't you tell us on 629 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: one episode once you had like half a joint when 630 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: you were like seventeen or something. Oh yeah, how what 631 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: I can't imagine? 632 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 3: What are you? 633 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: And as David calls it hash or the kids call 634 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: it true true. 635 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,280 Speaker 2: At it twice and one time it was absolutely hilarious. 636 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 2: Best thing ever. Second time will I knowingly had it 637 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 2: because a boyfriend of mine smoked and I smoked cigarettes 638 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 2: at the time, and I thought he just rolled me 639 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 2: a cigarette with his rollies, but he'd put some in 640 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 2: it and then was laughing, well, waiting for you to 641 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 2: kick in. And I hate it, hate it? 642 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 3: And what about you find? Are you find coke much better? 643 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 2: Coke's much better? I'm on that daily. 644 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're speaking of coke. Nothing to do. We'll come 645 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: back to the topic at hand. But did you see 646 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: the I don't know who it was. They put out 647 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: a thing the other day saying that it was on 648 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: the news, which is always a dubious source of scientific information. 649 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:26,720 Speaker 1: But anyway, they're talking about how having sweetness, artificial sweetness 650 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: increase so soft drinks increases the chance of diabetes by 651 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: type two diabetes by something like thirty six percent versus 652 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: sugar twenty three percent. Did you see that? 653 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 3: I did. It inspired me to go and have a 654 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 3: look at the study. I wasn't too impressed with the 655 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 3: study actually, because they didn't ad just for the weight 656 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 3: of the person, so and the fact that there's a 657 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 3: high probability that most people who are consuming artificial sweeteners 658 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 3: are probably also consuming sugar. So it's not like people 659 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 3: just decide I'm never touching sugar again in my life. 660 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 3: I'm just having artificial sweetness. But it was an interesting 661 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 3: study because it did at least raise the question because 662 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 3: what seemed to what the study seemed to be saying 663 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 3: is if you have artificial sweetness instead of sugar, it 664 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 3: doesn't change your risk of type two diabetes, and that 665 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 3: it's bad with sugar and it's still bad with artificial sweetness. 666 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 3: It does, however, change your risk of being fat. So 667 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 3: that was an interesting thing. It didn't it meant that 668 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 3: the type two diabetes risk wasn't altered by the fact 669 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:42,240 Speaker 3: that you were thin if you were consuming artificial sweetness. Honestly, 670 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 3: I felt the methodology in the study left a lot 671 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 3: of room for improvement because of the things I mentioned 672 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 3: before about what you included and excluded. Nevertheless, it does 673 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 3: pose an interesting question, is there something going on there 674 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 3: where we tell our body to expect sweetness and then 675 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,959 Speaker 3: don't deliver it, don't deliver the calories, which would cause 676 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 3: you to going weight, but the body still expects the 677 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 3: sweetness and makes an adjustment. That's an interesting area. And yeah, 678 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 3: so I felt the study was interesting for that reason. 679 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: I'd like to look at somebody with, you know, on 680 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: an empty stomach, high Grellen levels or whatever, and get 681 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: both of them to have a can of regular sugar 682 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: coke versus no sugar coke and see whether or not 683 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: there's a comparable insulin response to Yeah, I'd like to 684 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: see what that is. I wonder if you know, because 685 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: obviously you would think with a no sugar drink there'd 686 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: be minimal, if any insulin response, but maybe that's not 687 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: the case. 688 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it would be interesting. I don't understand why 689 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 3: those kinds of studies aren't being done, or if they are, 690 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 3: why they're not being published, because I haven't seen anything 691 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 3: that says that kind of thing. Maybe when you start 692 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 3: the Harps Research Institute, you can that could be studying 693 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 3: number one. You off, get up and running the other 694 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 3: interesting Harper Institute. 695 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: That'd be hilarious. 696 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 3: Go go the other one, just a quick one. Did 697 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 3: you see they've got a pill for a zimpic now, 698 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 3: so using the the GLP one stuff rather than having 699 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 3: to inject it just a once daily pill. It's in 700 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 3: trials at the moment and does it not quite as 701 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 3: effective as a zempic, but still still makes you nauseous 702 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 3: enough not to eat. 703 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: I have an interesting story about that that I cannot 704 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: tell you on the show, but I will tell you 705 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: when we finish TIFFs. Looking at me, mate, always good 706 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: to chat with you. Let's wind up so I can 707 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: tell you that little story. But we appreciate you and 708 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: you listeners, and also just go to the New Project 709 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: Facebook page and tell me what you think we might 710 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: do for the two thousandth episode. I'm leaning towards something 711 00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 1: live so we can have a bit of interaction, a 712 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: little bit of fun and a bit of a reflection, 713 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: and I'd suggest it might go for longer than an 714 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: hour or an hour and a half and we'll just 715 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,320 Speaker 1: waffle on and then if anyone wants to actually listen 716 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: to it, they can. If they want to skip it 717 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: and go to two thousand and one, they can also 718 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 1: do that. 719 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:14,320 Speaker 3: TIF. 720 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: We appreciate you, Thank you, thanks lads, Thanks Bilspo pleasure