1 00:00:03,470 --> 00:00:06,470 Sean Aylmer: Weeelcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,180 Sean Aylmer: We often speak about infrastructure on Fear and Greed, particularly 3 00:00:10,180 --> 00:00:14,190 Sean Aylmer: the enormous appetite of investors looking for the stable returns 4 00:00:14,190 --> 00:00:16,759 Sean Aylmer: that come with many of the assets. But I wanted 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,079 Sean Aylmer: to take a step back today and look at the 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,630 Sean Aylmer: infrastructure that Australia needs to develop into the future to 7 00:00:22,630 --> 00:00:26,750 Sean Aylmer: drive economic growth. Infrastructure Australia is the government body tasked 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,520 Sean Aylmer: with planning and recommending the infrastructure needed to overcome the 9 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,409 Sean Aylmer: challenges of the next 15 years. The 2021 Australian Infrastructure 10 00:00:35,409 --> 00:00:39,260 Sean Aylmer: Plan makes a series of recommendations to government covering everything 11 00:00:39,260 --> 00:00:43,410 Sean Aylmer: from energy reform to social infrastructure, like schools and social housing. 12 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,060 Sean Aylmer: It's now with the federal government for a response, and 13 00:00:46,060 --> 00:00:50,570 Sean Aylmer: then hopefully implementation. Peter Colacino is the Chief of Policy 14 00:00:50,570 --> 00:00:53,820 Sean Aylmer: and Pesearch at Infrastructure Australia and led the team that 15 00:00:53,820 --> 00:00:56,010 Sean Aylmer: developed the plan. Peter, welcome to Fear and Greed. 16 00:00:56,350 --> 00:00:57,840 Peter Colacino: Thanks so much for having me on the show. 17 00:00:58,350 --> 00:01:01,360 Sean Aylmer: Where do you start putting together a plan for what 18 00:01:01,420 --> 00:01:04,020 Sean Aylmer: the country needs to look like in 2036? 19 00:01:04,810 --> 00:01:06,810 Peter Colacino: Oh, look, that's a fantastic question. And I have to 20 00:01:06,810 --> 00:01:12,509 Peter Colacino: say being around four years into the process, that's culminating 21 00:01:12,510 --> 00:01:14,800 Peter Colacino: in the plan. It's really been a long journey. So 22 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,709 Peter Colacino: for Infrastructure Australia, we really emphasise the point of starting 23 00:01:18,709 --> 00:01:21,630 Peter Colacino: with problem definition. And that's a process that we do 24 00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:25,459 Peter Colacino: through our Australian Infrastructure Audit, a document that we finished 25 00:01:25,459 --> 00:01:29,730 Peter Colacino: in August 2019 with around two years prep leading into that. 26 00:01:29,990 --> 00:01:32,670 Peter Colacino: Following the completion of the audit, we switched to the plan, 27 00:01:32,670 --> 00:01:36,050 Peter Colacino: which is our document of reform. As you've said, we've 28 00:01:36,100 --> 00:01:41,340 Peter Colacino: got 29 reform recommendations in that document. It's a complement 29 00:01:41,340 --> 00:01:46,280 Peter Colacino: to our infrastructure priority list, where infrastructure investment opportunities, so 30 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,070 Peter Colacino: the really nationally significant opportunities that we've identified, are recorded. 31 00:01:51,450 --> 00:01:54,350 Peter Colacino: And in both those documents, in the plan and in 32 00:01:54,350 --> 00:01:57,490 Peter Colacino: the infrastructure priority list, we of course prioritise what's needed 33 00:01:57,490 --> 00:02:00,020 Peter Colacino: for our nation's future. And as you say to grow prosperity. 34 00:02:00,490 --> 00:02:03,870 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Where do you start though? Is it population? How 35 00:02:03,870 --> 00:02:05,590 Sean Aylmer: many people we've got, where they'll be living? I'm just 36 00:02:05,590 --> 00:02:08,519 Sean Aylmer: trying to think of some of the variables that I'd try and think of 37 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:09,640 Sean Aylmer: if I was trying to do this. 38 00:02:10,419 --> 00:02:14,650 Peter Colacino: You're completely right in saying most infrastructure planning starts with population. 39 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:17,739 Peter Colacino: That is exactly correct. And IA in fact has been a 40 00:02:17,740 --> 00:02:22,590 Peter Colacino: long term advocate for the development of a more complete 41 00:02:22,590 --> 00:02:26,980 Peter Colacino: national perspective of population growth. And that has led to, 42 00:02:27,060 --> 00:02:30,130 Peter Colacino: or certainly in part contributed to the establishment of the 43 00:02:30,130 --> 00:02:33,970 Peter Colacino: Centre for Population within the Australian Treasury, an outfit that 44 00:02:33,970 --> 00:02:37,880 Peter Colacino: we've been big supporters of, and couldn't really have come 45 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,669 Peter Colacino: at a better time with the impacts of COVID on 46 00:02:40,669 --> 00:02:46,389 Peter Colacino: net overseas migration, the largest internal migration from Australia's large 47 00:02:46,389 --> 00:02:50,610 Peter Colacino: cities to regions in recorded history. So that sort of 48 00:02:50,850 --> 00:02:54,109 Peter Colacino: insight from the Centre for Population has been critical to 49 00:02:54,110 --> 00:02:57,470 Peter Colacino: our thinking in the plan. But so too, we've looked 50 00:02:57,470 --> 00:03:01,550 Peter Colacino: to complement their work with lead indicators, helping to understand 51 00:03:01,550 --> 00:03:06,640 Peter Colacino: population movements with things like looking at real estate searches online, 52 00:03:06,810 --> 00:03:10,180 Peter Colacino: to understand changes in the mix of property types and locations 53 00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:13,350 Peter Colacino: that are being looked for. And that view of population 54 00:03:13,350 --> 00:03:16,380 Peter Colacino: and movement, as you say, is really a foundation, but 55 00:03:16,380 --> 00:03:19,870 Peter Colacino: it complements other things like changing consumer preferences, for instance, 56 00:03:19,870 --> 00:03:25,760 Peter Colacino: increased concern about the environment or climate, sits alongside technology change. 57 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,010 Peter Colacino: And of course, during COVID, we've seen that more than 58 00:03:28,010 --> 00:03:31,740 Peter Colacino: ever and a range of other factors. In fact, there's seven trends 59 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,520 Peter Colacino: that underscore the work in the audit, that document I 60 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,339 Peter Colacino: mentioned a moment ago. 61 00:03:35,630 --> 00:03:39,380 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So it's sort of a bottom-up exercise, as in 62 00:03:39,380 --> 00:03:43,040 Sean Aylmer: you're looking at the key trends, those seven trends that 63 00:03:43,260 --> 00:03:46,710 Sean Aylmer: real people are moving towards, as opposed to trying to 64 00:03:47,270 --> 00:03:50,910 Sean Aylmer: be Nostradamus and forecast what people will be doing in 2036. 65 00:03:51,540 --> 00:03:55,210 Peter Colacino: Well, that's a really kind of great reflection. I like 66 00:03:55,210 --> 00:03:57,760 Peter Colacino: to say, we're trying to have a shining crystal ball. 67 00:03:58,340 --> 00:04:02,620 Peter Colacino: So for Infrastructure Australia, really what we try to do 68 00:04:02,690 --> 00:04:06,810 Peter Colacino: is start with an understanding of our infrastructure networks, the 69 00:04:06,810 --> 00:04:08,530 Peter Colacino: assets, concrete and steel. 70 00:04:08,850 --> 00:04:08,970 Sean Aylmer: Yep. 71 00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:14,020 Peter Colacino: But also what services consumers receive. And we think about it 72 00:04:14,020 --> 00:04:17,909 Peter Colacino: in the context of access, quality and cost of infrastructure services. 73 00:04:17,910 --> 00:04:22,390 Peter Colacino: So not necessarily where the high voltage power lines are, 74 00:04:22,390 --> 00:04:27,100 Peter Colacino: but we start with people's electricity prices and reliability. And 75 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,370 Peter Colacino: we don't think about dams or 'desals' (desalinisation plants), we think about 76 00:04:30,450 --> 00:04:33,700 Peter Colacino: the quality of water. And whether it frankly comes out 77 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:36,300 Peter Colacino: when you turn on the tap, and then we also 78 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:38,779 Peter Colacino: look into the future and try to set a vision 79 00:04:38,779 --> 00:04:43,880 Peter Colacino: for 2036 and using a model of thinking, a methodology called, 80 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,039 Peter Colacino: theory of change. We try to chart a course from 81 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,800 Peter Colacino: where we are today and where we want to be in 82 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,529 Peter Colacino: 2036 and as we've just said, appreciating that that path 83 00:04:54,529 --> 00:04:58,900 Peter Colacino: will be buffered by those seven trends. And so two 84 00:04:59,010 --> 00:05:02,339 Peter Colacino: potential other risks, things like the pace of COVID recovery, 85 00:05:02,690 --> 00:05:06,469 Peter Colacino: or for instance, geopolitical shifts, as we're experiencing in Australia 86 00:05:06,470 --> 00:05:06,880 Peter Colacino: at the moment. 87 00:05:07,310 --> 00:05:08,880 Sean Aylmer: Peter, stay with me, we'll be back in a minute. 88 00:05:14,150 --> 00:05:16,880 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Peter Colacino the Chief of policy and 89 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,460 Sean Aylmer: research at Infrastructure Australia. Okay. So let's jump into some 90 00:05:20,460 --> 00:05:24,250 Sean Aylmer: of the things that we've mentioned. Population. Infrastructure Australia is 91 00:05:24,250 --> 00:05:27,869 Sean Aylmer: a supporter of people moving away from the big urban 92 00:05:27,870 --> 00:05:29,950 Sean Aylmer: centres to regional Australia? That's a question. 93 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:35,610 Peter Colacino: Well, Infrastructure Australia is about enabling both the government's priorities 94 00:05:35,690 --> 00:05:39,960 Peter Colacino: and the priorities of the community, community preferences. And what 95 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,349 Peter Colacino: we saw prior to COVID was one of the biggest 96 00:05:43,350 --> 00:05:48,710 Peter Colacino: concerns in cities being around pressure on housing, we also 97 00:05:48,710 --> 00:05:53,810 Peter Colacino: saw reflections around congestion and we saw infrastructure provision in 98 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,170 Peter Colacino: many of our big cities, really playing catch up, particularly 99 00:05:57,170 --> 00:06:00,880 Peter Colacino: on the urban fringe. And what we see through the 100 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,839 Peter Colacino: increased attractiveness of regions is an opportunity to relieve some 101 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,380 Peter Colacino: of that pressure. And in fact, to take up some 102 00:06:09,380 --> 00:06:13,630 Peter Colacino: of the capacity or capability in regional centres to support growth. 103 00:06:13,630 --> 00:06:17,150 Peter Colacino: So I'm in Sydney. And if I think about neighbouring 104 00:06:17,150 --> 00:06:22,600 Peter Colacino: centres like Wollongong and Newcastle, they have traditionally had lower 105 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,930 Peter Colacino: rates of growth than Sydney, particularly the Western fringe. And 106 00:06:26,930 --> 00:06:30,330 Peter Colacino: as for instance, the corridor through Wollondilly starts to grow. 107 00:06:30,330 --> 00:06:35,820 Peter Colacino: It's very approximate to Wollongong, which is well located with universities, 108 00:06:35,820 --> 00:06:38,760 Peter Colacino: of course, a large industrial base, et cetera. So the 109 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,390 Peter Colacino: opportunities for second cities and satellite cities in some of 110 00:06:42,390 --> 00:06:45,590 Peter Colacino: our smaller capitals, the likes of Adelaide or Hobart or Darwin, 111 00:06:45,930 --> 00:06:49,370 Peter Colacino: to support further growth is quite clear to us. And 112 00:06:49,410 --> 00:06:53,240 Peter Colacino: what we're interested in is understanding what constraints there could 113 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,220 Peter Colacino: be for that growth and making sure that they're overcome. 114 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,610 Sean Aylmer: Okay, is it difficult to recommend or consider the needs 115 00:07:00,690 --> 00:07:05,190 Sean Aylmer: of rural areas versus major urban areas? Because if you're 116 00:07:05,190 --> 00:07:08,680 Sean Aylmer: doing that on purely population, the regional cities, like the 117 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,840 Sean Aylmer: one I grew up in central West New South Wales 118 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,070 Sean Aylmer: probably isn't going to get much, but obviously there's a 119 00:07:14,070 --> 00:07:15,730 Sean Aylmer: lot more to it than population? 120 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,540 Peter Colacino: Yeah. Without a doubt, some of our tools as a 121 00:07:20,630 --> 00:07:26,020 Peter Colacino: nation and indeed as a profession to examine infrastructure priorities 122 00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:29,480 Peter Colacino: do have complexities in the way that they're put together, 123 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,820 Peter Colacino: that favour things like higher populations and higher population densities, 124 00:07:34,180 --> 00:07:37,520 Peter Colacino: but that's a challenge that not only we face in Australia, 125 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,360 Peter Colacino: but indeed we do globally. So in the United Kingdom, 126 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,330 Peter Colacino: their levelling up agenda is focused on overcoming some of 127 00:07:44,330 --> 00:07:48,270 Peter Colacino: these issues. In Canada, they're looking at strategies to grow 128 00:07:48,270 --> 00:07:52,780 Peter Colacino: their regions and following the approach of Infrastructure Australia, Infrastructure 129 00:07:52,780 --> 00:07:57,080 Peter Colacino: Canada's just been established and they're undertaking a national infrastructure assessment, 130 00:07:57,630 --> 00:08:00,080 Peter Colacino: a parallel to our plan and audit. And indeed in 131 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,240 Peter Colacino: the UK, the UK National Infrastructure Commission has been established 132 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:09,020 Peter Colacino: and they're undertaking a similar process. So I'd say we 133 00:08:09,020 --> 00:08:14,590 Peter Colacino: have over time developed tools that are very well suited 134 00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:21,240 Peter Colacino: to considering urban infrastructure. And now we in Australia and 135 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,260 Peter Colacino: many other countries need to help to develop our tools 136 00:08:25,510 --> 00:08:29,260 Peter Colacino: and broaden our considerations so that we can understand the 137 00:08:29,260 --> 00:08:33,319 Peter Colacino: needs of regions and rural areas. And for IA, we've done that. 138 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,589 Peter Colacino: We've made that leap over the last year, both through embedding, 139 00:08:37,780 --> 00:08:41,059 Peter Colacino: quadruple bottom line view of sustainability. So that's the old 140 00:08:41,059 --> 00:08:45,020 Peter Colacino: triple bottom line, plus governance. An approach that the World 141 00:08:45,020 --> 00:08:50,780 Peter Colacino: Economic Forum and the OECD and indeed the Infrastructure Sustainability Council 142 00:08:50,820 --> 00:08:55,910 Peter Colacino: have favoured. And we've also updated our infrastructure assessment framework. 143 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,830 Peter Colacino: And through the plan, just finally, I'd say we've been 144 00:08:59,830 --> 00:09:03,160 Peter Colacino: really particular to make the point that we're not only 145 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,640 Peter Colacino: looking at big cities. Our big four cities, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, 146 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:11,300 Peter Colacino: and Perth is certainly, pre- COVID and increasingly, Brisbane and 147 00:09:11,300 --> 00:09:17,280 Peter Colacino: Perth lightly touched by COVID and Sydney and Melbourne conversely, share 148 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,250 Peter Colacino: many similar traits. Tied into the global economy, diverse economies, 149 00:09:22,330 --> 00:09:26,189 Peter Colacino: domestically high rates of population growth that we expect to 150 00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:29,099 Peter Colacino: see return, which is a contrast to a group of 151 00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:32,710 Peter Colacino: second cities from Adelaide to Kingaroy in Queensland, our fifth 152 00:09:32,710 --> 00:09:36,339 Peter Colacino: to 100th largest looking to attract more growth. And then 153 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:41,730 Peter Colacino: our rural and remote areas where markets for infrastructure provision 154 00:09:42,059 --> 00:09:44,910 Peter Colacino: really need support. So in fact, it's thinking about our 155 00:09:44,910 --> 00:09:50,069 Peter Colacino: minimum service levels and refreshing the $27 billion per year 156 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,100 Peter Colacino: that we spend on community service obligations to ensure that 157 00:09:54,100 --> 00:09:57,190 Peter Colacino: the 40% that are poorly targeted, that are not opaque, 158 00:09:57,190 --> 00:10:02,699 Peter Colacino: are better understood and deliver really meaningful impact to improve 159 00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:04,370 Peter Colacino: the livability in those communities. 160 00:10:04,690 --> 00:10:07,300 Sean Aylmer: Okay. When I think about infrastructure of the future, I 161 00:10:07,300 --> 00:10:10,020 Sean Aylmer: think of telecommunication, then I think of 5G and Internet 162 00:10:10,020 --> 00:10:13,699 Sean Aylmer: of Things, they're both part of recommendations in the report. 163 00:10:13,970 --> 00:10:15,929 Sean Aylmer: How important is it that we're not left behind the 164 00:10:15,929 --> 00:10:19,150 Sean Aylmer: rest of the world in this, particularly given just the 165 00:10:19,150 --> 00:10:20,620 Sean Aylmer: vast size of the country? 166 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,640 Peter Colacino: Well, the vast size of the country is a great challenge 167 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:28,130 Peter Colacino: around many of our infrastructure networks. So, I don't think a 168 00:10:28,130 --> 00:10:32,110 Peter Colacino: lot of people appreciate the scale of our national energy market, 169 00:10:32,110 --> 00:10:37,150 Peter Colacino: the largest interconnected market in the world, stretching from North Queensland, 170 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,460 Peter Colacino: right the way through to South Australia and Tassie. I mean, 171 00:10:39,770 --> 00:10:42,760 Peter Colacino: it's a remarkable piece of infrastructure. In many ways, it's 172 00:10:42,820 --> 00:10:46,540 Peter Colacino: like the equivalent of the Great Wall from an electricity perspective, 173 00:10:46,540 --> 00:10:48,660 Peter Colacino: you could see it from space, it's so big. But, 174 00:10:48,660 --> 00:10:48,719 Peter Colacino: it really- 175 00:10:49,820 --> 00:10:53,390 Sean Aylmer: So, I'm just going to clarify that. So we are connected from North 176 00:10:53,390 --> 00:10:56,470 Sean Aylmer: Queens ... so there is a power line, or something equivalent, 177 00:10:56,890 --> 00:10:59,310 Sean Aylmer: connecting north, the very north of Queensland to South Australia. 178 00:10:59,311 --> 00:11:03,200 Peter Colacino: ... That's right. And Tasmania, yep. The national energy market 179 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,002 Peter Colacino: as it's referred (crosstalk) . 180 00:11:04,010 --> 00:11:05,429 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I've never thought of it that way. 181 00:11:05,900 --> 00:11:08,130 Peter Colacino: The largest interconnected market in the world. 182 00:11:08,590 --> 00:11:10,469 Sean Aylmer: Incredible. Sorry I interrupted. Go on. 183 00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:13,220 Peter Colacino: No, no, not at all. And you're right. It is remarkable. 184 00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:17,959 Peter Colacino: I mean, I think the scale of infrastructure, both investment 185 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,360 Peter Colacino: and indeed operations in Australia is not always well appreciated. 186 00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:26,319 Peter Colacino: And that goes to also thinking about the National Broadband Network. 187 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,949 Peter Colacino: I mean, we are, of course, the only country that 188 00:11:30,950 --> 00:11:34,309 Peter Colacino: is also a continent, we're a very large country, perhaps 189 00:11:34,309 --> 00:11:38,370 Peter Colacino: not as large as Russia or the U.S. but very large 190 00:11:38,370 --> 00:11:43,059 Peter Colacino: on a global scale. With very low population density. So 191 00:11:43,059 --> 00:11:47,939 Peter Colacino: the challenge of providing cost effective, value for money connectivity, 192 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,260 Peter Colacino: to even the most remote communities, it is a significant challenge. 193 00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:58,720 Peter Colacino: And the NBN has indeed greatly increased our connectivity in Australia. 194 00:11:58,809 --> 00:12:00,300 Peter Colacino: And what we need to do now, is think about 195 00:12:00,340 --> 00:12:04,170 Peter Colacino: what's next. It's not a build once set and forget philosophy. 196 00:12:04,610 --> 00:12:07,400 Peter Colacino: The next step for us to remain globally competitive is 197 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,679 Peter Colacino: to look at new and complimentary technologies to make sure 198 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,530 Peter Colacino: that those places that might not be experiencing the full 199 00:12:15,530 --> 00:12:20,080 Peter Colacino: capability of the NBN have other options available, whether mobile 200 00:12:20,620 --> 00:12:23,120 Peter Colacino: or fixed wifi or indeed looking at some of the 201 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,360 Peter Colacino: new satellite technology that's available, to make sure that we're 202 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,579 Peter Colacino: plugging in those gaps. 203 00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:29,300 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And we're running out of time, but I just 204 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:31,940 Sean Aylmer: wanted to mention water because it's obviously been one that 205 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,839 Sean Aylmer: Australia has always worried about. It's been a big issue 206 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,560 Sean Aylmer: for parts of Australia and not other parts. We now have 207 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,829 Sean Aylmer: pressures of climate change, which probably changes that debate, somewhat. 208 00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:46,100 Sean Aylmer: What's the view on water and what we need around 209 00:12:46,170 --> 00:12:47,570 Sean Aylmer: clean drinkable water? 210 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,229 Peter Colacino: Our perspective on water is twofold. Firstly, we need to 211 00:12:51,230 --> 00:12:55,179 Peter Colacino: establish a clear and consistent definition for water security. As 212 00:12:55,179 --> 00:12:58,569 Peter Colacino: you say, we're again, one of the driest inhabited continents 213 00:12:58,570 --> 00:13:02,670 Peter Colacino: on earth, we have a population that's spread right across 214 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,240 Peter Colacino: the continent, indeed in many places with low density. So 215 00:13:06,390 --> 00:13:09,280 Peter Colacino: we need to make sure that we have a method 216 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:14,090 Peter Colacino: to assess what water's available and then to consistently report 217 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:16,880 Peter Colacino: on its security and indeed to allow it to be 218 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,140 Peter Colacino: then directed to the best use, which could be around 219 00:13:20,140 --> 00:13:24,540 Peter Colacino: supporting population, or indeed supporting industry or environment or culture. 220 00:13:25,070 --> 00:13:30,990 Peter Colacino: Separately, we're very conscious around water quality and safety. So 221 00:13:31,220 --> 00:13:34,980 Peter Colacino: many of our remote communities where they do have water, 222 00:13:34,980 --> 00:13:39,089 Peter Colacino: in fact, don't have safe high quality water. And what 223 00:13:39,090 --> 00:13:43,190 Peter Colacino: finite potable water's available can be wasted because of a 224 00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:46,069 Peter Colacino: lack of maintenance, or a lack of a water- wise 225 00:13:46,130 --> 00:13:50,360 Peter Colacino: understanding. So really we're trying to focus on water quality 226 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,220 Peter Colacino: in those remote areas and also about introducing new water sources. 227 00:13:54,220 --> 00:13:58,400 Peter Colacino: So stormwater harvesting and recycled or purified water, as it's 228 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,059 Peter Colacino: increasingly known, used around the world and indeed used in 229 00:14:02,059 --> 00:14:05,860 Peter Colacino: many places in Australia. And we really need to institutionalize that 230 00:14:05,860 --> 00:14:08,900 Peter Colacino: sort of approach, moving away from climate- dependent sources. 231 00:14:09,220 --> 00:14:11,810 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Just one final question, I suppose, this can't be done 232 00:14:11,890 --> 00:14:16,050 Sean Aylmer: on government money alone? It needs private and public sector money? 233 00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:20,860 Peter Colacino: It absolutely will require collaboration between the public and private sectors, 234 00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:25,890 Peter Colacino: including private investment and many of our infrastructure networks, so 235 00:14:25,890 --> 00:14:31,180 Peter Colacino: Telco as we've discussed, certainly mobile, the energy networks, both 236 00:14:31,180 --> 00:14:37,600 Peter Colacino: electricity and gas, many of our transport assets, even social infrastructure, 237 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,330 Peter Colacino: all attract private investment today. In fact, Australia has really been 238 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,890 Peter Colacino: during the 90s and early 2000s, a global leader for 239 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:50,140 Peter Colacino: effective private investment in infrastructure. It's a really interesting time 240 00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:54,540 Peter Colacino: to refresh that view. And indeed some jurisdictions, New South Wales, 241 00:14:54,540 --> 00:14:59,070 Peter Colacino: for instance, are reviewing their public/ private partnership guidelines currently. 242 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,150 Peter Colacino: And really start to think about the evolution of that 243 00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:06,610 Peter Colacino: model PPP 2. 0 as it's sometimes called, looking for ways 244 00:15:06,610 --> 00:15:10,740 Peter Colacino: for greater collaboration and looking for ways to further embed 245 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,710 Peter Colacino: community preferences in infrastructure planning and delivery. 246 00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:16,921 Sean Aylmer: Peter, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 247 00:15:16,921 --> 00:15:17,760 Peter Colacino: Thank you so much. 248 00:15:17,940 --> 00:15:21,030 Sean Aylmer: That was Peter Colacino, Chief of policy and research at 249 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,970 Sean Aylmer: Infrastructure Australia. This is a Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join me 250 00:15:24,970 --> 00:15:27,340 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast, with 251 00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:29,580 Sean Aylmer: all the business news you need to know. I'm Sean 252 00:15:29,580 --> 00:15:30,820 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Enjoy your day.