1
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,800
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Harps. I just want to let you

2
00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:08,280
Speaker 1: know that I just finished this podcast with Chezi Dana

3
00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:13,160
Speaker 1: just then. You've already I know you haven't. You haven't

4
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:14,960
Speaker 1: heard it. Because this is going at the front. I

5
00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,000
Speaker 1: should probably think about things before I speak. There's a

6
00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,560
Speaker 1: lesson for me, So I want to tell you that

7
00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,520
Speaker 1: the internet, Chezy's Internet, I think it was. Doesn't matter,

8
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,520
Speaker 1: but the Internet wasn't amazing, so we missed a few

9
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,800
Speaker 1: words here and there. I'm giving you this fore knowledge

10
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,479
Speaker 1: up front so you don't get too frustrated. I also

11
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,720
Speaker 1: want to tell you, hand on heart, this was one

12
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:48,880
Speaker 1: of the most interesting, fascinating conversations I've ever had, ever

13
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:56,840
Speaker 1: forget on a podcast, just ever, and honestly weird, beautiful, interesting,

14
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,720
Speaker 1: possibly even bit scary at times, not really, but just

15
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,319
Speaker 1: like fucking so interesting. I loved it. And I mean

16
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,399
Speaker 1: we went well over an hour. I could have done

17
00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,399
Speaker 1: two or three hours. Anyway, enjoy it, Chazy, Danya and me.

18
00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,199
Speaker 1: Thanks for dropping in, okt A, tellhim it's bloody Harps.

19
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,479
Speaker 1: Who else would it be to you? Project Imagine if

20
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 1: one day you tune in and there's some other bloke

21
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,280
Speaker 1: and we're still what if what if he's better than me?

22
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,400
Speaker 1: It'd be fucking terrifying myself. Sim couldn't, couldn't cope. That's

23
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 1: why I'm never going to have a sick day because

24
00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: I'm too insecure. And I'm definitely not getting Grant Danya

25
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,679
Speaker 1: or zy Dana to host because that would be the

26
00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,520
Speaker 1: last time I ever appear on the show, which would

27
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,960
Speaker 1: be traumatic. Speaking of Chez Danya, she's here, she's joining me.

28
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 1: How are you hi?

29
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 2: I'm good. I don't know why I just went all

30
00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,920
Speaker 2: high pitch. I just got really parted.

31
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 1: You look good? Are you on some kind of fucking

32
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,720
Speaker 1: miracle drug? Because you look five years younger than when

33
00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 1: I spoke to you two years ago?

34
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 2: Really, do you know what I think? I have to

35
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:17,960
Speaker 2: say it's because I shed some some weight, not literal weight,

36
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,400
Speaker 2: but I feel fool. Does that mean sense?

37
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah? What tell me about that? So emotional and

38
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,679
Speaker 1: mental weight I'm guessing you're talking about.

39
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I feel like I could start sitting down

40
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:36,640
Speaker 2: the street. I just don't feel weighed down by a

41
00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,959
Speaker 2: big secret that I you know, I've been hanging on to.

42
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:42,040
Speaker 1: Oh.

43
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,720
Speaker 2: I won't say how old I am, but let's just say.

44
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,799
Speaker 1: Forever a long time plus. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well we're

45
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,080
Speaker 1: going to dive into that. So congrats on the book.

46
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 1: So CHESI wrote a book. It's called The Weird Little

47
00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,520
Speaker 1: Girl Who Talked to Ghosts. I have a signed copy

48
00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,919
Speaker 1: in my hand that I'm putting it in my hand.

49
00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 1: I have a signed copy in my hand, The Weird

50
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,919
Speaker 1: Little Girl Who talked to Ghosts? More than just a mema,

51
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 1: Shasi Dania, this is your first book? Is this your

52
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:13,360
Speaker 1: first book?

53
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:14,200
Speaker 2: Yes?

54
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 1: One to ten? How terrifying was or how difficult was

55
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,440
Speaker 1: the process?

56
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,960
Speaker 2: It was awful. It was so hard for somebody who

57
00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 2: is very hyperactive ADHD just down on consecutive days night,

58
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,359
Speaker 2: wake up really early in the morning, like I did

59
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 2: this for years. It was I actually can't believe that

60
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,240
Speaker 2: I finished it. M so hard.

61
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 1: I feel like that. I feel like that with my PhD.

62
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,040
Speaker 1: Not about me, but it's like I'm not suited to

63
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 1: doing this. Why am I doing this? But you did it.

64
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,119
Speaker 1: Your channeled your energy, you found some focus. I think

65
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 1: one of the things about learning or developing new skills

66
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:03,000
Speaker 1: or tackling tasks that you're not maybe naturally suited to do,

67
00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,640
Speaker 1: like sit there for eight hours and just be creative

68
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 1: and amazing because you've got the attention span of a

69
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 1: fucking four year old in a Lolli shop, is you

70
00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,920
Speaker 1: you kind of figure out your own protocol that works, right? Yeah?

71
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the dead of night worked for me, right. I

72
00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:24,359
Speaker 2: had to put my air pods in and playteen hurts music.

73
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,279
Speaker 2: Hilary really tried forty hurts, which is supposed to be

74
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,800
Speaker 2: the frequency to help people be their academic best, and

75
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 2: I had to really like, I had to slow it down.

76
00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,200
Speaker 2: So fourteen hurts work me.

77
00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:46,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, fourteenth hurts. That's interesting. I she's just talking about

78
00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,400
Speaker 1: this kind of music that everyone If you don't know

79
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,440
Speaker 1: what she's talking about, I use I use a similar

80
00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:57,320
Speaker 1: but different frequency for sleep. I can't remember one is,

81
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,640
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's called green. There's

82
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,080
Speaker 1: white noise, green noise, brown noise. I use one, which

83
00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,960
Speaker 1: is in fact, if you go into whatever it is,

84
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,719
Speaker 1: the music e platform, Apple or whatever, and you just

85
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,520
Speaker 1: search green noise or white noise, you'll you'll hear it

86
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,840
Speaker 1: and you'll figure out what. And I've got one that

87
00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,720
Speaker 1: it puts me to sleep almost straight away. I used

88
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,400
Speaker 1: to try music, really nice music, but the problem is

89
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,120
Speaker 1: there's stops and starts, and oh, now there's a bit

90
00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,000
Speaker 1: of guitar, and now that even if it's just all

91
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,320
Speaker 1: classical or it's all music, there's no lyrics. It stop

92
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,560
Speaker 1: and start gets my attention, whereas I want something not

93
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,839
Speaker 1: to get my attention. So there's just this. It almost

94
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:44,279
Speaker 1: sounds like surf rolling into the beach, but constantly, and

95
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,040
Speaker 1: I'm out. That's like forget. I don't know. I've never

96
00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 1: taken a sleep pill in my life, but I don't

97
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,480
Speaker 1: need it. And so your performance window is kind of

98
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,240
Speaker 1: all your optimal cognitive kind of time is late at night.

99
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, late at night, very early in the morning. For

100
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 2: a number of reasons, I've got three thousand kids, it

101
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,720
Speaker 2: feels like most of the time, so during the day,

102
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,200
Speaker 2: i'm you know, mum, Judy's I get distracted if I

103
00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,839
Speaker 2: look out the window and a butterfly or a birth passed,

104
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,520
Speaker 2: or if somebody texts me tries to call me, like

105
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:25,159
Speaker 2: I actually have to completely tune out the world. So

106
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,800
Speaker 2: pitch black at night, no distractions. That's where I kind

107
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:30,840
Speaker 2: of my best work.

108
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,680
Speaker 1: And how long at a time, because I feel like

109
00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,839
Speaker 1: this develops too. When I first started studying hard, literally

110
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,280
Speaker 1: I'm not even been funny reading academic papers and stuff.

111
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,640
Speaker 1: Five six minutes, that was it. That was my max.

112
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,719
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, oh, but I'm a

113
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,760
Speaker 1: relatively intelligent grown up who's written books and done Telly

114
00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,520
Speaker 1: and radio and all these things, and oh and no,

115
00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh fuck, I find it. It's so hard

116
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,239
Speaker 1: to read something that is not particularly interesting. And honestly

117
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 1: a lot of academic papers are not particularly interesting and

118
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,400
Speaker 1: they're very laborious. What was your like? What was your

119
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,960
Speaker 1: kind of how long could you stay focused?

120
00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 2: That's so interesting, firstly because I feel like I don't

121
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 2: feel like such a loser because when I first started

122
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:25,320
Speaker 2: to sit down to so I look, I've tried to

123
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,760
Speaker 2: write things, you know, over the years, and I've never

124
00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 2: been able to sustain focus. It just hasn't felt natural.

125
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:40,440
Speaker 2: But this book came in a very different way. So,

126
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,880
Speaker 2: So I studied mediumship. I did my medium certification with

127
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,640
Speaker 2: a school in Canada.

128
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 1: And explain explain what that means.

129
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,000
Speaker 2: So that is so the certification is just like a

130
00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,880
Speaker 2: diploma certificate to say that I'm a qualified medium, but

131
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:04,760
Speaker 2: mediumship it is tuning into spirits and communicating with people.

132
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:13,240
Speaker 2: Also have passed over spirit guides essentially what you can't see.

133
00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 2: So I started early in the morning with the school

134
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,920
Speaker 2: overseas for eight months and loved it of it. But

135
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:27,000
Speaker 2: during the examination period it's really really grueling, especially for

136
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,480
Speaker 2: some ADHD and I have to really slow myself down

137
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:42,319
Speaker 2: to tune in. And during the examination period, I I

138
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:48,200
Speaker 2: never turned off connection, so to speak. So I did

139
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,600
Speaker 2: my exams. I was so happy because I got high

140
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:56,200
Speaker 2: distinction I've never done by and I was just so

141
00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,400
Speaker 2: happy that I was able to bring through all of

142
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:04,720
Speaker 2: this evidential proof that I was connecting with somebody's loved

143
00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,480
Speaker 2: one outside that I kind of celebrated and didn't turn

144
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 2: it off. And over the next couple of days I

145
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,440
Speaker 2: had all of it started out being spirits of little kids.

146
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:23,600
Speaker 2: They would pop up, I saw them, I heard them.

147
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 2: You know. I was just inundated by all of these

148
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,199
Speaker 2: spirits asking me to kick them with their loved ones

149
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,200
Speaker 2: and to give their loved ones messages. So I had

150
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:38,680
Speaker 2: some advice, thinking I was going crazy because oh my god,

151
00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,560
Speaker 2: I'm losing my mind here and yeah, and my bed

152
00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:48,320
Speaker 2: start writing them down. So I started writing, and each

153
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,920
Speaker 2: time I wrote them, I sent them on to my manager,

154
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,200
Speaker 2: and she was a big skeptic. Within four days I

155
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 2: had four hundred. Within within a couple of weeks, I

156
00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:04,760
Speaker 2: had thousands. And she found one of the messages that

157
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,199
Speaker 2: was for her and that unlocked something in her. And

158
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,800
Speaker 2: so that was the start of the book. And I thought,

159
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,000
Speaker 2: you know what, I've got hundreds of thousands of messages

160
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,640
Speaker 2: here to get these to the people that they need to,

161
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,040
Speaker 2: you know, to tell. And so my first thought was,

162
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,360
Speaker 2: I'll just put them in a book, and I'm all

163
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,439
Speaker 2: in a book, and then they'll land wherever they're supposed

164
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,120
Speaker 2: to land. And then I thought, well, hang on a second,

165
00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 2: that's going to look pretty fucking crazy, isn't it. Chezy

166
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,520
Speaker 2: from TV, who hasn't told anybody that she's studying mediumship,

167
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,040
Speaker 2: all of a sudden comes out with a book saying,

168
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 2: you know, hey, I've been talking to not the alcoholic

169
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,720
Speaker 2: kind and his messages for you. So that's kind of.

170
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:59,400
Speaker 1: Where the Wow book started and do you yeah? And

171
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 1: it's funny because when you're kind of known for one

172
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,839
Speaker 1: thing and then all of a sudden you go also,

173
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:10,080
Speaker 1: everyone also, world, by the way, there's this which could

174
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:14,839
Speaker 1: be more different. I mean it couldn't be further removed

175
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:19,280
Speaker 1: from normal, for want of a better term, regular as

176
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,840
Speaker 1: we know you you, and then you're like, by the way,

177
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,160
Speaker 1: there's this other thing. It's kind of hard to explain.

178
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,840
Speaker 1: You probably think I'm full of shit. I know it

179
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,560
Speaker 1: sounds like woo woo. I get it. I know it

180
00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,600
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense in inverted commas. I know, you know,

181
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 1: And that's like so much spiritual stuff, if not all

182
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,800
Speaker 1: of it. That's the point is that it's not logical,

183
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,720
Speaker 1: it's not a brain thing, but it's and we try

184
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,640
Speaker 1: and like because we all look at the world through

185
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,760
Speaker 1: our windows, so we have like what we know, Well,

186
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,800
Speaker 1: there's why, no, this this is well, that's bullshit. That's impossible,

187
00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,760
Speaker 1: and that becomes that story becomes our version of reality,

188
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,559
Speaker 1: and we think our version of what's possible is actually

189
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,320
Speaker 1: what's possible. No, that's just your story about possibility. That's

190
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 1: your story about truth, that's your story about what is

191
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,240
Speaker 1: and what isn't. And you know, like I grew up

192
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,880
Speaker 1: in a certain religious paradigm, right, so religious schools, religious parents,

193
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,200
Speaker 1: religious friends, and so I knew early on that how

194
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,600
Speaker 1: everything works through this window of religion, through this filter

195
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,520
Speaker 1: of religion, so nobody could teach me anything because I

196
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,640
Speaker 1: knew because I grew up in the truth. I grew

197
00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,120
Speaker 1: up in the One True Church, and you didn't, so

198
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:43,360
Speaker 1: fucking shush like then you go then one day, Yeah,

199
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 1: but what if you're wrong? Harps? You know, what if

200
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,679
Speaker 1: you've mean, what if this is bullshit? And what if

201
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,640
Speaker 1: that's or what if some of it's bullshit and some

202
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 1: of it's true, or what if that thing that you

203
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,480
Speaker 1: think is basically just some weird chit called Chezi who

204
00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 1: bloody talks to God? What if that's like you know,

205
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,840
Speaker 1: there's that because you've got to battle against what people

206
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 1: think is and everyone, especially with things like ghosts, right,

207
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:15,480
Speaker 1: spirits whatever. I would think people, because where I grew up,

208
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,520
Speaker 1: I shouldn't even talk to you because that's it's demonic,

209
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:25,160
Speaker 1: it's evil, it's the occult, it's all this. Absolutely, my

210
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,840
Speaker 1: pastor would be he would have he wouldn't crack the

211
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:30,840
Speaker 1: shits because you're not like that. He would have like

212
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,959
Speaker 1: I would not be. I would have been severely chastised

213
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,679
Speaker 1: for having a conversation with you. I would have been

214
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,640
Speaker 1: told to stay away from you. I'm like, oh, that's

215
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:43,360
Speaker 1: you know, and you.

216
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,880
Speaker 2: Know, and you know on that. So so I had

217
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,920
Speaker 2: to go back through, you know, using my journalist brain.

218
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,480
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I am asking people to trust me,

219
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,199
Speaker 2: what I don't even trust me. I don't even trust

220
00:13:58,280 --> 00:13:58,920
Speaker 2: what this is?

221
00:13:58,960 --> 00:13:59,480
Speaker 1: What is this?

222
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:05,240
Speaker 2: So I went back through my life story because I

223
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 2: wanted to add credibility to these messages and what I

224
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:16,360
Speaker 2: remembered discovered, Like I went through old diaries, my year one,

225
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 2: year two, year three, written books. Because I went to

226
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,640
Speaker 2: a Catholic school, I had to piece together things that

227
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:30,400
Speaker 2: I had blocked out and that was really confronting and

228
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 2: very sad. There was a lot of tears because I

229
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,280
Speaker 2: felt really sorry for myself. I mean I even had

230
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:44,400
Speaker 2: forgotten sort of, but I'd forgotten that I was punished

231
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,400
Speaker 2: pretty badly by the nuns at my school because I

232
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,600
Speaker 2: was this annoying kid who kept asking when you come

233
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 2: back in the next life, can you choose what you

234
00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 2: come back as, sister? You know, with the habit the blue.

235
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,840
Speaker 2: It was not very happy thinking that I was a

236
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,000
Speaker 2: trouble maker. But I wasn't a bookmaker. I just had

237
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:11,680
Speaker 2: a different lens. Back through my own story has been

238
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:19,520
Speaker 2: really traumatic, like really confronting, but also just so I

239
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,760
Speaker 2: don't know, I'm a mum of little kids, and I

240
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 2: just I felt so sorry for myself. I had this

241
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,560
Speaker 2: like cathartic in.

242
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:27,760
Speaker 1: A child.

243
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:34,400
Speaker 2: Greeting period, you know, counseling period, all writing this book,

244
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:41,320
Speaker 2: and that I wasn't expecting that at all, whole demonic language,

245
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,840
Speaker 2: Like I was terrified. I believed I was going to hell.

246
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,800
Speaker 2: And when I look at some of my books when

247
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 2: I was eight and nine and the scenes that I

248
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 2: wrote about when I was in kindergarten where I drew

249
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 2: pictures of myself with all spit around, there's such a

250
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:10,160
Speaker 2: big change. And I resented my religious upbringing for a

251
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 2: period because I felt that made me feel like I

252
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,720
Speaker 2: was a bad person and I didn't understand that. And

253
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,920
Speaker 2: so I've had to really do a lot of forgiveness.

254
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 2: And wow, yeah, and the whole idea of opening up

255
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 2: the portal was terrifying. I did not want to go

256
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 2: to hell. So my parents used to always say to me,

257
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 2: why do you have a glow in the dark as

258
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:41,320
Speaker 2: a statue next to the bed with the Bible? You know,

259
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 2: they weren't even that religious, but I wanted to do

260
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,800
Speaker 2: anything I could because I was told a lot that

261
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,840
Speaker 2: I was going to hell. That was the internal dialogue.

262
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 1: How old were you when was it? I assume nuns,

263
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 1: God bless the nuns. We love nuns. But sometimes how

264
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,760
Speaker 1: old were you when you're being told you going to hell?

265
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 1: Uh A?

266
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 2: Nine?

267
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,880
Speaker 1: Eight and nine? Like, yeah, you know, I'm not I'm

268
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,439
Speaker 1: not trying to throw anyone or any group of people

269
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,159
Speaker 1: or any religion under the bus, but fuck fuck, it's like, imagine,

270
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,679
Speaker 1: imagine telling a child, a young child, that they're going

271
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,359
Speaker 1: to burn in an eternal lake of fire for like

272
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 1: obviously eternity, Like that's not love, that's that's evil, Like

273
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,720
Speaker 1: that's horrible. Bumps, Now, that's so fucking horrible.

274
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,840
Speaker 2: And for see, I didn't have anybody at that age

275
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:51,119
Speaker 2: to talk, so I so my parents they God love them, like,

276
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 2: you know, absolutely adore them, and they loved me, and

277
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,280
Speaker 2: they were so supportive, and they just thought that I

278
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 2: had a great imagination with lots of imaginary friends. There

279
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,600
Speaker 2: was a number of times where I would say something

280
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 2: and they would kind of, well, that's a bit strange,

281
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,480
Speaker 2: you know, Like I would have a conversation about someone

282
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,800
Speaker 2: that I played with on the playground or you know,

283
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,480
Speaker 2: at home, and i'd give some details about a war

284
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,040
Speaker 2: that it was a little girl from Bathett's to how

285
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:21,879
Speaker 2: the hell did.

286
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:22,199
Speaker 1: I know that?

287
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:30,600
Speaker 2: And I think my mom, in knowing now her story,

288
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:37,400
Speaker 2: she was you know, raised by clearly women who had

289
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:42,639
Speaker 2: wrong mediumship skills. But back in the day when they

290
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:48,640
Speaker 2: searing spirits, they gave her electric shock therapy. My mom's

291
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 2: mom and her mom both trick shock therapy for hearing

292
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 2: voices right, which they classify pizophrenia. So in my mum

293
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:05,720
Speaker 2: lens when I mister Magoo from up the road came

294
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,199
Speaker 2: to me and he died lot of a heart attack,

295
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,199
Speaker 2: and he wants me to tell his wife that he's okay.

296
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 2: He's been crying. I remember the distinct feeling that my

297
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 2: mum looked me for a little bit too long, kind

298
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:23,879
Speaker 2: of like, oh shit, you know what is this. You

299
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 2: know that she have schizophrenia, et cetera. So you have

300
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,720
Speaker 2: that at home. And I'm a people pleaser, so I

301
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 2: have energy. I pick that up from my mum. You know,

302
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 2: this is not something's about. Then I go to school

303
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,719
Speaker 2: and then I've got at school, I spoke to friends

304
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 2: about it. You know, got mocked. You know, it's just

305
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 2: not something that you really talk about. Then on top

306
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,200
Speaker 2: of that, with the nuns, you know, and the religious teachings,

307
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,680
Speaker 2: like I banished this side of me so deep a.

308
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 2: I had to have hypnosis to pull some of these

309
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 2: experiences out. I can't tell you how terrified I was

310
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 2: from the talk at school, but also in not being

311
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,360
Speaker 2: able to DISCUSSS like I was seeing spirits and yet

312
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 2: I was being told no, that's evil, and the only

313
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 2: spirit that does exist was the one spirit. I couldn't see,

314
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit. So that's yes, the play is there.

315
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: Wow, this is from Oh my God. I could talk

316
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 1: to you for hours. I could, Honestly, I'm I don't

317
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 1: feel like I'm hosting a podcast. I feel like I'm

318
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: just I mean really sitting at I kind of want

319
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: to turn the podcast off now. I don't because I

320
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 1: want everyone to hear you. But like there's a couple

321
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 1: of things that come up for me. So I talk

322
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,119
Speaker 1: about this thing. I call it thought cults. It's a

323
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 1: thought cult, right, where a group of people, whether it's

324
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: religious or otherwise. It could be I won't name people

325
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 1: because I don't know I'll get thrown under the bus anyway,

326
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 1: but like it could be vegans, It could be bodybuilders.

327
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 1: It could be where vegans or carnivores or everyone they're like,

328
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: this is the best way to eat, and they live

329
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 1: in an echo chamber and they all say and think

330
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: and do the same. And or it could be a

331
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 1: political cult. Or it could be you know, it could

332
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 1: be bodybuilding versus CrossFit versus whatever it is. It could

333
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 1: be you know, any philosophor you yeah, but it's like,

334
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 1: so people surround themselves with people who are like them,

335
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: think like them. And so now you're in this environment,

336
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 1: this thought bubble, this echo chamber that you, the eight

337
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: year old, did not choose right, and then you are

338
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 1: coerced and controlled and manipulated and programmed to think a

339
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 1: certain way. And then you would when you're not being

340
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: subjected to that, or you're just by yourself, you're having

341
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 1: these very real experiences that freak people out and through

342
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 1: their lens or their language, that's evil, that's bad, that's demonic,

343
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: that's this, that's destructive, that's the occult, that's and I

344
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: grew up in that with that language, so I very

345
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 1: That's why I said to you, I would have been

346
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: outcast if I had have done this with you then

347
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: or a version of this with you, and it's it's

348
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 1: it's so interesting that people are so uncomfortable with people

349
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: that aren't like them, which is why we see all

350
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: the screaming on social media and why we I wrote

351
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: a post about this the other day, Chezy, and I've

352
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: seen this a bit lately. I've seen more of it

353
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,199
Speaker 1: since I posted this thing. But in two days, I

354
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: saw two different people doing a rant about a topic.

355
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter what the topic is, you can probably guess right,

356
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: but anyway, rant fucking this person and that this disgusting

357
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,479
Speaker 1: and everyone needs a right right And at the end

358
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: they went, if you disagree with me, please unfollow. And

359
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're literally telling the world. You're literally telling

360
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,479
Speaker 1: the world you only want people who agree with you

361
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: and think like you and live in your echo chamber,

362
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 1: to be in your world, your community, because in your

363
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 1: mind there's no chance that you were wrong. And then

364
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: I think practically about that, and I think, well, I'm

365
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: I'm wrong ten times a day every day, maybe fifty

366
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 1: who knows, but I get things wrong every day multiple times.

367
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: Then to figure out over the last decades how much

368
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: shit I've got wrong? Who fucking knows? But a lot. Now,

369
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I've got this opinion about something

370
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: that you know, like let's say, for example, Donald Trump

371
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: is this or Donald Trump is that? Or isn't this?

372
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,959
Speaker 1: Or is it too much or not enough? Whatever. So

373
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: I'm Brian living in fucking berleeen and I'm sending this

374
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: to my seventy four friends, like I'm going to make

375
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: a difference or I'm going to move the needle, or

376
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 1: like I just don't like think what you think, but

377
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: also have an awareness that, oh, you could be wrong,

378
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: because you've been wrong many times. You know. I was

379
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: unequivocally you know, a Bible kid, and you know, and

380
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: I still think. I still like a lot of what

381
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 1: came out of church for me was good. Some of

382
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: it was fucking terrible. Some of the people in there

383
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: were amazing and beautiful and gifted and kind, and some

384
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: were fucking Charlatan's right, who would say one thing and

385
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: do another.

386
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: Right.

387
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: But that's not so much about church as it is

388
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: just about human beings. But you've worked in the media

389
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: a lot. I bet you know people in the media

390
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: who are a gift and other people who are narcissistic,

391
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: fucking pricks. Right, It's not about media or the industry.

392
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: It's just about human beings, you know. So you're trying

393
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: to navigate this complexity of the human experience. And it's like,

394
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: that's why I don't try to convince anybody. I just go,

395
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: this is what I think, and why could be wrong

396
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: because I've been wrong a lot. So rather than believe me,

397
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: perhaps consider me if you want, you know, And then

398
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: I think that's what you're doing, and there's.

399
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: There's so so when I first decided to release the book,

400
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 2: and I thought, holy hell, this could could annihilate our career.

401
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: This could annihilate us, like we could get canceled grant

402
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 2: grants like nasst of it. You know, if you if

403
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: you're meant to get canceled, you can get canceled. I

404
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: was still really nervous, and I like, I'm not nervous anymore.

405
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: I get time, not as many, but I do get

406
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 2: common cell the time from people who are deeply old

407
00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: of religion. And I've done enough research so part read

408
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 2: in my book so I can't divided into three ish sections.

409
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: Got my story the messages messages, but then I've also

410
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 2: got just a little bit of research that I did

411
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: intoship how it's not you. How Western culture is the

412
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 2: only culture in the world does this since since organized religion,

413
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,479
Speaker 2: you know, it was introduced. So I've just given like

414
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: a very brief touch on that stuff. I don't feel

415
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: the hold. So I see people now saying, you know,

416
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: you're going to go to hell or whatever. I think, Okay,

417
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: that's your belief. I'm not asking you to believe me.

418
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: This book was never about turning the world into being

419
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 2: pro cheasy. This was about me saying, you know what,

420
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: I've got three daughters. I've blocked this daughters, and I

421
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: will forever be trying to repair because what happens when

422
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 2: we lose our connection, and it happens to all of us,

423
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: is placed by this feeling of being untethered. It is

424
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 2: replaced by a feeling of anxiety and depression. And I've

425
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: got three daughters disorder. I have not blocked it whatsoever.

426
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 2: And she is as weird as hell, she is as

427
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 2: confident as hell. And there is something in this I

428
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: wanted to tell my truth. I wanted to tell my truth,

429
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 2: and I knew the messages are supposed to get to

430
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: would get to them. But I never expected was that

431
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: this little book that we we went down the self

432
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 2: publishing route because I I met with all the publishers

433
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 2: and the publishing is something that I was you know,

434
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: I've never published anything before in my life. They obviously

435
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: want to maintain their brand and they wanted to put

436
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: their fingers all over it, and you know, that didn't

437
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 2: sit right with me. So I never thought that this

438
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: little book that could would have had overwhelming response. And

439
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: every single day I have been smashed with messages from

440
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 2: people who are like, Hi, I'm weird too. I held

441
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 2: a soul and a lot of those had very religious

442
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: upbringings and they had to bear deep down. Now I'm

443
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: not saying that that's the only you know, the group

444
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: that this has appealed to, because there's also which I

445
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: was not expecting, people who were outcome at school. They

446
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: felt like a loser, they had no friends. It seems

447
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: to be I don't know speaking to them. But I

448
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: never wanted to convince from that point that you raised,

449
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: It was just about me saying I have been by

450
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: I haven't been authentic. I still don't know you know

451
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: who I am. I'm still working through that, and I

452
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: have put all of that in this book because I

453
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 2: don't want to live that lie anymore.

454
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: Chesy, I'm going to get you to turn off your

455
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: video because your internet's a bit dodgy, so I'll turn

456
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: off mine as well. So we can't see each other.

457
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: Now we've become a radio interview. That's all right, So

458
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: if you can just yeah, because I think generally I

459
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: don't like this. I don't like this as much. I'm

460
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: going to tell you. But anyway, so che we can't

461
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: see each other now, everyone, but let's just think of

462
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: it as a fancy phone call, just because your audio

463
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: is coming in and out a little bit, which my

464
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: listeners are probably going, what did she say? That? We're

465
00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: missing a few words? So when did? When did the

466
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: book get published? Liked it? When was day one where

467
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: the public could get their grubby little hands on it?

468
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: March eleven?

469
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: So okay, oh so not even two weeks? Yeah, certain

470
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: days ago. That's amazing, and so tell us I've got

471
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: a lot more questions. But just about that, what's what's

472
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: the response been?

473
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: So I hit the best seller list in the pre sale,

474
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: and I even want to do a pre sale because

475
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: I thought, who is buying books before they can get it?

476
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that that was a thing, but apparently

477
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: it is. So they made me put the book out

478
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 2: February nineteen, and so I have published it myself, but

479
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: I have kind of teamed up with book Topia to

480
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 2: do a distribution. When I say they that's who you know,

481
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: because I needed somebody to help me get the books out.

482
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: That wouldn't be my forte so and I was very

483
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: adamant that I want assible to everyone. And a lot

484
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: of the people that I talk to are from way

485
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: out west. They don't have little bookstores, you know, so yes,

486
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: so it just seemed to know. So February nineteen, it

487
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: came out on presale and within forty eight hours it

488
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: hit the best seller list, which was like I was like, God,

489
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: I don't even know what that means. But they just

490
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: kept saying it's really good. And then yeah, I've been

491
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: sitting at number one since it's you know, into the

492
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: sale period. I don't know. I had to go down

493
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: and sign thousands of books and that I didn't even

494
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: have a signature, Like.

495
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: I'm not that's hilarious. That's hilarious. Yeah, put your put

496
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: your camera back on. Because we're the same. It doesn't

497
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: make any difference. Doesn't matter. So everyone, I apologize for

498
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: a few drop words here and there, but it just

499
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: is what it is. So if we miss something, I'm

500
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: going to ask you again. Sorry. It's just the connection.

501
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: It's just a connection we have. And is that like

502
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: I would think, considering how fearful you were over time

503
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: and probably fearful writing the book, what will people think?

504
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: How will it be received? Could this, as you were saying,

505
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: could this fucking ruin me? Could this be? Could this

506
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: be the beginning of it? And now it's it's been embraced,

507
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: it's being embraced. How does that? What is that doing

508
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: to you? What's that doing mentally and emotionally? Is that

509
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: is that? It's obviously a surprise, but a great surprise, right,

510
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: it is a surprise.

511
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: It's still mun't I think fecting a much bigger reaction

512
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: from me when they say, you know, you've just beaten

513
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 2: this just I'm like, I don't know, I don't know

514
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: how to feel. Yeah, I just when I got the

515
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 2: book in my hand and I smelt it and I

516
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: felt it, and that was enough. I was like, far out,

517
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: I've done it. I've climbed my mountain. Speak and then

518
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: my daughter you know, while I was in that moment,

519
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: thinking wow, what a rockstar moment, she with her kindergarten

520
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 2: scissors giving herself a scarlet. So that just brought me

521
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: straight back. It's overwhelming, and I think at times, I

522
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 2: it's it's a lot because now what I've realized that

523
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: not only have I touched on lots of memories for

524
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: bringing up all of this stuff, They're kind of sometimes

525
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: looking at me like I'm some guru when I meet people,

526
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: you know, can I, I don't know, give them the

527
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: light or something, and I don't actually know, Let's do

528
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: it together. Yeah, So it's it's yeah, it's it's crazy

529
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: into my first workplace, you know, in a Channel seven

530
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 2: to give an interview and absolutely terrified. It just was

531
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: such a big moment to go back there were these

532
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 2: people that I've worked it for years and to go, hey, yeah,

533
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: so you noticed. But I was always a little bit

534
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 2: weird and most of the time, you know, we knew

535
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 2: you you were different.

536
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: That's great though, And I think it's like the thing is,

537
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: whatever you do, whoever you are, however you are, whatever

538
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 1: your thing is, people are going to judge you anyway.

539
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: Now that's not necessarily negative. Because we all judge or

540
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: evaluate or kind of that's part of our brain. Our

541
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: brain just makes judgments all day. You know, it's a

542
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: threat assessment machine, your brain, and so you know it

543
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: being assessed or being evaluated or people labeling you. And

544
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: like if I had as somebody said, what three words

545
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: come to mind, I would go clever, I would go fascinating,

546
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: I would go a bit weird. I'm like, yeah, cool,

547
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: like all cool things, you know that. But also the

548
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: thing about like my luck while I'm trying to think

549
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: my second last book was with Penguin, and you're right,

550
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: and I'm very grateful to peng when it was great,

551
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: but I must have done at least fifty radio interviews

552
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: and not I don't know, ten or eight TV things

553
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: and magazine things, and then you go you write the book,

554
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, there's

555
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: this whole other. Oh now I'm being understandably wheeled out

556
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: because they want the product to work because it's their product,

557
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: and they don't money. They don't make money unless it

558
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: sells heaps, so they wanted to sell heaps, so they've

559
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: got to wheel you out to talk about it. Obviously,

560
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: there's this whole commercial and practical and financial and industry

561
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: reality around the book. That's not you. It's it's like,

562
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: it's not a bad thing, but that's just and you

563
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: probably don't think about that because you're just so concerned

564
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: with I hope the book's good. I hope people don't

565
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: hate it. I hope I get some decent people, and

566
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: I hope I don't get black Man. And then all

567
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you're being shuffled around like a fucking

568
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: performing monkey. You're on this, You're on that, you're doing.

569
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: Has that been an interesting kind of experiment?

570
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: Again, not wanting to diss the publishers, because you know,

571
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: it's a it's a brand new street to me. But

572
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 2: when I kind of sat down and I said, all right,

573
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 2: what what how does this work? What what do you

574
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: do for me? And then we'll get you all this media,

575
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 2: I thought, Yeah, I don't know. I just want to

576
00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 2: be able to be selective. I want to do heart

577
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 2: led chats. I don't want to be like I don't

578
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 2: want to Betty that I've pretended to be for the

579
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: last twenty years, you know, all polished like Jersey doing

580
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 2: all the mass media. I want to do the new

581
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: project I want to do, you know. So I haven't

582
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 2: been wheeled out. I've been selective. So my experience has

583
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: been different because I don't have anybody to answer to. Yeah,

584
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 2: for myself. And also I know how things get sold.

585
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 2: I know the clickbait headlines that you know. Sometimes well

586
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: I would have written in the past to promote something

587
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 2: like this. I don't want to feed into that machine

588
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: all right now.

589
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: I want to get into your gift or your burden.

590
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: I think it's both. I think it's both. It's probably

591
00:37:58,840 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: something else as well.

592
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 2: Ability, And can I just say on that probability ability,

593
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 2: we are all born one thousand percent. We are all

594
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 2: born with this ability. It's not sick to me.

595
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: But what is.

596
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 2: Probably unique is it Somewhere along the line, I just

597
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: missed out on the indoctrination because I was too adhd.

598
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: Now I genuinely feel so it's an ability that we

599
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: all have.

600
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: It's it's so interesting, that indoctrination bit. It's like we're

601
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: growing up. We're told what to think, not we're taught

602
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: how to think, like, don't think critically, don't think for yourself,

603
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: because we've already got the truth. You need to just

604
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: learn it. It's like what you know, It's like we're

605
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: actually taking and I know it's evolving in schools and

606
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,959
Speaker 1: I know, you know, I went to school two hundred

607
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 1: and seventeen years ago, So what the fuck do you want?

608
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: What the fuck do you want? What the fuck do

609
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: I know? But it's like, yeah, like all the stuff

610
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: that I was taught, and whether or not it was

611
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: religious or other stuff, it's like, you know, even the

612
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: science back in the day, it's like, no, this is

613
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: how the world, this is how you know, like the

614
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: food pyramid, for example. I've spoken too much about it,

615
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: so no, this is the best way to eat. And

616
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: then we find out, oh, not only is that not

617
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: the best way, it's fucking terrible. Oh, but that was

618
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: the science. And it's like this is the theology and

619
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: this is the one true this. And then you think

620
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: about the fact that there are over four thousand religions

621
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: in the world and twelve major religions and they all

622
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: teach different shit, but they all think they're the one

623
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 1: true hot line to whatever or whoever right, And it's like, bro,

624
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: just step out of the emotion and the hyperbole for

625
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: a moment, and all of you think you're right, So

626
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,959
Speaker 1: statistically a lot of you are wrong, or maybe all

627
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: of you are wrong. Who the fuck knows, right, Like,

628
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: even if you just tone down your religious zealousness and

629
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: your emotion and your addiction to that and your programming,

630
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: and I get all of it, and I know you've

631
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: been told not to think, I'm like, why do you

632
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: think they tell you not to think? Oh, that's a

633
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: good way to control you. That's a good way to

634
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: manage you. And by the way, Craig, if you talk

635
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 1: to Chezi, that's sin, and if you talk about those things,

636
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: that also is sin. And by the way, all her

637
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: stuff bad, all our stuff good. So oh fuck. And

638
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: then now me like one hundred years later, doing a

639
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: doctorate in psychology, lightbulbs are going off every day where

640
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, that's what that is. Ah, Like, this

641
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: is manipulation, this is controlled this is coercion, this is fear,

642
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: this is hijacking someone's brain, this is limiting people, this

643
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: is sabotaging their own fucking potential. And it's a way

644
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 1: to subvert your natural whatever and to manage you. Now,

645
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: I'm not saying all religions are terrible or theologies. I'm

646
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: not saying that at all. I'm just saying that anything

647
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: any group where you are discouraged from being you and

648
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: thinking for yourself and believing for yourself and learning for yourself,

649
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: anything that tries to control that out of you, that's

650
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: not in your best interest, you.

651
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,479
Speaker 2: Know, Amen, Amen, tell us.

652
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: About, tell us about, Like I want to get my

653
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: head around when you I don't know what do you

654
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: call it? You get a message, you get a fucking download.

655
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: What do you call it? When? When you what do

656
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: you call that process? Ah?

657
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: So like tuning in right? So, so say, for instance,

658
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: like the other day haspened for a while, but the

659
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: other day I was asleep and I heard voice, so

660
00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: very clear voice in my head okay, which is clear audience,

661
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 2: and said, get up, I need you to write my message. Okay.

662
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: So I'm half asleep. The kids are all around me.

663
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: Oh god, It's been a few years since this has happened,

664
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: because I've been too busy, book. But I now don't

665
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: question it. I hop up and I trust it, and

666
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: you know know the reasons why that happened. I put

667
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 2: a message up on social media, and I you know,

668
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: I know that that has a person that it was

669
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 2: meant to help so that's a hearing. Now. I always

670
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 2: thought that I was because I was clearly hearing differents,

671
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 2: like picking up sometimes conversations happening in other rooms, and

672
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 2: it's kind of like you know the old radios, where

673
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: like the frequency you're trying to tune in. That's what

674
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 2: I did, is So that's with the hearing side of things.

675
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: Now there's also claire cognizance, which is a knowing. So

676
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 2: they're all they're all the claires, which is what you

677
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: know mediums call the different senses that you tune in

678
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 2: with so vant clairvoyant. That's the seeing you know when

679
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 2: you're so for instance, for different But how I explain

680
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 2: it to people is, you know, if you do a

681
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: visualization or a meditation where you close your eyes and

682
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 2: you visualize something that's clear, that's clear audience. That's sorry clairvoyance.

683
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 2: So I always thought that that was my strongest sense,

684
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: but as it turns out, it's not. It's clare sentience,

685
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: which is the sensing of something m So all of

686
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: those happened simultaneously. Sometimes they're you know, they come at

687
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: different times, sometimes in full apparitions, which very rarely ever happens,

688
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: but like a full outline of you know, when you

689
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: see a road on really hot and there's.

690
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 1: Like the shimmer, it's like shimmering.

691
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeap, Yeah, that's what it's like, kind of like an outline.

692
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: And if you walk into a place and you go, oh,

693
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 2: this doesn't have a good feeling this place, and you

694
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 2: can't quite explain why. For an animal, you'd trust that instinct,

695
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 2: but we don't.

696
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: Can I tell you a story please, so that that right.

697
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: I won't say where, But I used to work at

698
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: a place with a recovery kind of organization, so ad

699
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: ex alcoholics, drug addicts, gamblers, blah blah, all of that,

700
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: and most of my experiences there were amazing. But one

701
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: day I got there, I just did a weekly thing

702
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: for a few years where I went and talked to

703
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: the boys and girl about just so not about their

704
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: addiction per se, not as a counselor, but rather as

705
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: an exercise physiologist, health fitness bloke. So I just talked

706
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: to them a bit about lifestyle, food, exercise, all the

707
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: you know, and in the context that I'm in a

708
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 1: room full of addicts, right anyway, So to get to

709
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: the room, there's a hallway that you walk down at

710
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,439
Speaker 1: the end of the hallway. It's not exciting. There's door,

711
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: you open the door, you walk in, you're in the room.

712
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: You're in the middle of them. It's like a classroom anyway.

713
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: So one day I'm there, you know, number speaking event

714
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: for them, number one hundred and eighty four or something.

715
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: And I get there and I'm on autopilot. I'm walking

716
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: down the hall. I'm speaking from two to four. It's

717
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: one minute to two. I'm about to touch the door

718
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 1: and I get this almost shock and I just stop.

719
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: And I just got this sense of just not walking through.

720
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: Don't walk through just yet. Now this is and this

721
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 1: is I know this sounds weird. You're like, no, that's

722
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: totally normal. And I'm bumps.

723
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: Right now, which is what I call bumps.

724
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right. So I'm about to open the door

725
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: and I kind of get this vibe feeling or sensation.

726
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: Do not open the door, Just fucking chill out for

727
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: a second. I'm like, all right, what And then I

728
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: got this sense that today would be problematic, that there

729
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: would be people in the group who want a better term,

730
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: weren't the best people, and I needed to be careful.

731
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, because I'm fucking happy Gilmore. I just

732
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: stroll in and be me and do my shit. You know,

733
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, whatever, So I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Anyway.

734
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: I went Roger that no worries, I'll be careful. Then

735
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: I went in and within about ten minutes there was

736
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: probably twenty people in the group. It was clear that

737
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: there were two people in there who are nobody knows

738
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: who it is, but no good like just stuff going on,

739
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: not good stuff. And I could see that they didn't

740
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: like me, that they they will try and derail everything,

741
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: and they would like essentially trying to threaten me and

742
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: all of these And I'm like, anyway, because I kind

743
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: of was somewhat prepared, but at the same time thinking

744
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: you're a fucking idiot, nothing's going to happen. Then it happened,

745
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: and I'm like, then I was fascinated that I got

746
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,439
Speaker 1: this warning. Then I walked in and by the way,

747
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: this had not happened before. It's not like this is regular. Yeah,

748
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: and I knew that it was two people, and it

749
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: was two people, and yeah, so I just I modified

750
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: what I would normally do and how I would normally

751
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: do it, and how available I was emotionally and mentally

752
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: and perhaps spiritually, who knows right and how I was anyway,

753
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: so I got through it somewhat unscathed, but there was

754
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: definitely some shit going on, and there was no reason

755
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: in the world. Like when I got essentially told to

756
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: stop at the door, I wasn't thinking about anything. I

757
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: was just on an autopilot walking down the same corridor

758
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: I'd walked down hundreds of times. And yeah, and I

759
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: have not because that has not happened. Happened a lot,

760
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: but I've not forgotten that, and I remember it vividly,

761
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what's that about? You know? So I

762
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: did you.

763
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 2: Because I noticed that you just said that when you

764
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: heard did you thinking back and putting yourself in that situation?

765
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 2: Did you hear it or unknowing?

766
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: It was a knowing? It was a sense And I

767
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: felt scared for a minute. Yeah, and like just fear arose,

768
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,479
Speaker 1: well obviously for a reason, but not the way fear

769
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 1: normally arises. Where I'm going to talk to one thousand

770
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: people in thirty seconds on a stage, Well, of course

771
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: you feel fearful and anxious because that's fucking challenging whatever,

772
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: But this just came from nowhere and from no thought.

773
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: It's not like I had a thought and then that

774
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: produced a fear response. I didn't have a thought, like

775
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: it all happened. I felt this thing in my body,

776
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 1: this like my body was like steady on my brain,

777
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:26,720
Speaker 1: on my mind or whatever, whatever intuition, spiritual self whatever.

778
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, and I like, that's I've never told that,

779
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: because it's it's it's mental. Well, Craig, that's fucking stupid.

780
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: You're stupid, do you know what I mean? And because

781
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: you know, and then because I'm the logical I'm the

782
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 1: logical guy, I'm the brain guy. I'm the psychology guy.

783
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: I'm the human behavior dude. I'm the hey where are

784
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: we now? Where do we want to be? Let's make

785
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: better decisions, do better things, better outcomes. I'll hang on.

786
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 1: There's this other like and that's the funny thing right

787
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: in our culture where very much about well, knowledge can

788
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,919
Speaker 1: only come from an external source. Knowledge can only come

789
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: from a book or a conversation or a school or

790
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 1: a program or a video or a fucking academic journal

791
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: or that's where knowledge comes from out there. And then

792
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're like, oh, knowledge comes from

793
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: in here. But we were never taught that, Like, what

794
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 1: there's those things that you know that you've never been taught.

795
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: Explain that to me, grasshopper, That's fucking amazing. I love this.

796
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: I'm still learning myself, so neuroscience is something that I'm

797
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 2: starting to dabbling. We can't explain what consciousness is yet,

798
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 2: so can't explain it. And if you've ever seen somebody

799
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 2: pass away, which I have, you know, you see the

800
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 2: energy leave and that's not where we're that's you know

801
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 2: you you see the energy leave the body, the vessel.

802
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 2: So I can't explain it, but I just know that

803
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 2: I have had similar experiences what you're talking about. When

804
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 2: Grant broke his back in a monster truck, Like I'm

805
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 2: just a I very rarely will pull out of stuff

806
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 2: like I'm a yeah optimist, you know, we can do anything.

807
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 2: And on that day when we were leaving, I got

808
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 2: to the front door and I had that feeling I

809
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,240
Speaker 2: can't do. I felt violently ill all of a sudden,

810
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 2: and I did not know what it was. And I

811
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: said to Grant, I can't go with you to this

812
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 2: media day thing. Well you have to come with me

813
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: because you've organized it. I never pull out of stuff

814
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 2: anyone who knows me knows I just you know, just

815
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 2: but it was so overwhelming and after everything that happened,

816
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: and I've spoken to people who were there with him,

817
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 2: they say, you would not have probably recovered if you

818
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: you know, if you him that way. So what is that?

819
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: I don't know.

820
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:18,919
Speaker 2: I don't know. It would be your higher self telling you.

821
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: You know, it could be reading a frequency. Understand some

822
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 2: people who are much more woo woo than me, you know,

823
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 2: it could be your spirit guides. It could be this

824
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 2: that I don't know. All I know, we as a

825
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 2: society have disconnected from reading that and trusting that. And

826
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 2: as I said, if it was an animal, they don't it.

827
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 2: And I want to see everyone get back to going.

828
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm not going to go in the

829
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: room right now because I'm not having feeling that I

830
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 2: can't explain. I just know it's not right. And then

831
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 2: the people who are walking in with you go, oh, okay,

832
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,320
Speaker 2: well Craig's not doing it today. The feeling like, rather

833
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: than taking the pierce and saying, well that's just weird,

834
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 2: suck it up, butter Cup and get in here. You know,

835
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 2: I don't know how we get to that point, but

836
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 2: I want that future for my kids that.

837
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 1: I love that so much. And also, like, here's a

838
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: controversial thing to say, right, it's like, the human mind

839
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 1: is fucking amazing, but we've got no evidence that there's

840
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: a mind actually, because the mind is a construct. Right,

841
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: The brain is real. We can see fuel, measure touch,

842
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: we can analyze what's happening biochemically in the brain and

843
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: all of that, right, But the mind is like a

844
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: gift and a problem because it can heal you or

845
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: fuck you up, or it can do good for you

846
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: or fuck you up, depending on what's happening in your mind.

847
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: So so much so you'll love this, I think. So

848
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:57,479
Speaker 1: there's a thing called psychoeuroimmunology pn I, and it talks

849
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: about the relationship between what's happening in your head your body.

850
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: So your thoughts, your thoughts create an emotional response, your

851
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: emotions create physiological response. So, all of a sudden, right now,

852
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: for some weird reason, and this is not a this

853
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: just a hypothetical story, all of a sudden, you think

854
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,280
Speaker 1: you're in danger, when the reality is you're not in danger,

855
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 1: You're totally safe. But you have a thought right now,

856
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about you're getting a message from but

857
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: just a you know, and then all of a sudden

858
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: you think the thought it's not actually true. But then

859
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 1: there's the associated fear and anxiety and all of those things,

860
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: maybe anger. Then your heart rate goes up, and your

861
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: blood pressure goes up, and your sympathetic nervous system goes

862
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 1: nut's fight or flight and adrenaline and cortisol and all

863
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: of these things happen in your body that your mind

864
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: created because your mind and emotions and body are one system,

865
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: not three. They're always up and operating in concert, you know, together.

866
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: But like, I think the problem is that we trust

867
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: our minds too much. Much Like the mind is brilliant,

868
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: but also you know who somebody said, don't believe everything

869
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 1: you think. I'm like, that's such a great fucking sentence

870
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: because you think some terrible shit. Bro, you think shit

871
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: that's going to fuck up your life. Yeah right, yeah,

872
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: and so that that that kind of like this is

873
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: my thought, but it could be flawed or this is

874
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: my belief, but I could be wrong. Now that's not

875
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: what you're talking about with this kind of information and messaging.

876
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 1: But it's like just understanding that, like it's trying to

877
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: understand that the gap between you know, it's like you

878
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: were talking about consciousness and yeah, we don't know what

879
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 1: the fuck it is. I just listened to a guy

880
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: being interviewed whose name escapes me, but he wrote a

881
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: book it's out now called Consciousness, and he's like, it's

882
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: it's about consciousness. But when the interviewer goes, so what

883
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 1: is it, he guys, I don't know's I don't know,

884
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 1: we don't know. I'm like, fuck, bro, you wrote the

885
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 1: book called consciousness. What's the fucking answer. He's like, we done,

886
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,439
Speaker 1: you know, And so that's the beauty of it. So

887
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 1: my theory, my theory is to consciousness, the beginning of

888
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: consciousness and awareness, which kind of a cousin's is to

889
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: realize how little awareness and consciousness you have and to

890
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: be able to like, to realize, I don't like, I've

891
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: just done a PhD, which is essentially around self awareness,

892
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: and I know, I mean, it's it's about more than that,

893
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: but that's the blanket kind of and I know, fuck

894
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: all you know, you know, it's like even with I

895
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,359
Speaker 1: was trying to explain to someone yesterday, I was at

896
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: the cafe and there's a you know, that granulated sugar,

897
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: the brown sugar. There was a big jar of that.

898
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: There would I don't know, I don't know how many,

899
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: but probably fucking ten thousand grains of sugar in this

900
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: big jar. And I said, and I got out one

901
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: grain of sugar and I put it on my feet

902
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 1: tip and I said, this is I go that jar.

903
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: That is psychology. This grain of sugar is what I'm studying.

904
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: I'm studying a fucking drop of water in an ocean

905
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 1: of knowledge. And even then you separate, well, then beyond

906
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: psychology there's all the other fields. So I think the

907
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: truth is that, you know, we don't really know, Like

908
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: we think there's some stuff we know, but there's so

909
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: much stuff. But because our identity so much in our

910
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 1: culture anyway, is tied in with knowing and being right,

911
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: and we want certainty and we want predictability, and we

912
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: want comfort and we want familiarity. We want all of

913
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: these things because we hate the fucking unknown. So Chezy,

914
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,919
Speaker 1: please stop talking about this fucking woo woo goofy shit

915
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: because it scares me, right and you're scaring me and

916
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: it's not true anyway, so fuck off. And by the way,

917
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: you're bad I'm good. You know, this is thing we're

918
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: so scared.

919
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 2: Look at what's happened at the start of this year

920
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: with all of the Epstein files and all of this,

921
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 2: you know, wishing of all of these things that we

922
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 2: thought we knew, and now we're going, well, hang on

923
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 2: a second. It is a bit scary because what what

924
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 2: what do we know? Our minds want control, they don't

925
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 2: want to be fit. I went through a period where

926
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 2: I had post traumatic stress, but all I felt that

927
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 2: entire time was anxious. Yes, that time was when I

928
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 2: intuitive at all. I was so in my head, and

929
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 2: it was always about trying to control about feeling settled

930
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 2: because I felt like I had answers. I felt like

931
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 2: I was protected. I you know, I didn't feel like

932
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 2: I was tethered.

933
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: I just was.

934
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 2: Scrambling to try and control every situation. And that is

935
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 2: just I feel sorry for the Shaddy that went through that.

936
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 2: But I'm so gratefu able to share that experience because

937
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 2: I see it in so many people now and I

938
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 2: read it. I see it in addicts, Like there's so

939
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 2: many addicts who feel and I'm only raising the point

940
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 2: of because you were talking about them before. They you know,

941
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: they're traumas, can define them, etc. But they're also they

942
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 2: unjust they feel like they are disconnected from I don't

943
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 2: know source or disconnected and that is such a big issue.

944
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 2: It's huge, and there's so much that we can't explain.

945
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 2: I am now like you, like I will be forever

946
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 2: a student. My mum has Alzheimer's dementia. He's like quite

947
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 2: you know in that. And when I was over it,

948
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 2: so I went to Arthur Finlay College and did a

949
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 2: masterclass in mediumship, and they explained to me a bit

950
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,439
Speaker 2: about how when you're going through dementia you can put

951
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 2: one foot in the afterlife, you know, one foot seal year.

952
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: And then I had three days where I didn't speak

953
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 2: to my mum and I was out in the kitchen

954
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 2: and I literally saw her presence walk into the kitchen.

955
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 2: And I've never do this. So this is an exclusive

956
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 2: for the U project, but I like, I thought, oh

957
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 2: my god, and she and no, I hope not am

958
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 2: I dead? And I said no, no, no, I use

959
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 2: oh I must be asleep. Oh. I was just really

960
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 2: worried about you and I just wanted to see if

961
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 2: you were okay. How she has dementia Okay, that long ago.

962
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 2: It was probably six months ago in knowing what kind

963
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 2: of opened my mind. At what I call Spiritual College,

964
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 2: they had a lot more experience than I did. I

965
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 2: was open to it. We had this great conversation. I

966
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 2: told I was okay. I said, Mom, you go back

967
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 2: to sleep now and I'll chat to you tomorrow. So

968
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 2: the next day, when I saw a big hug and

969
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 2: I said, Mom, you did you come and see me

970
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 2: in your dream last night? She said, yeah, I was

971
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 2: really worried about you.

972
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I was wow.

973
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 2: That is validation of something that I don't know how

974
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 2: the hell had happened, but it happened. Science can't explained

975
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 2: to me how that happened.

976
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: But I know it.

977
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 2: I know it, and I trust feel.

978
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of things that are

979
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: real that we can't prove. And that's one of the

980
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 1: problems is that we you know, science is great to

981
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: a point, but the problem with science is that science

982
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 1: was created by humans. Like all the protocols and all

983
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: the ways it was created by humans. Humans are brilliant. Also,

984
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: humans are flawed. And then so even with my research, right,

985
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 1: it's doing my stuff. It's a research based PhD. So

986
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: you have to design. Firstly, you've got to come up

987
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: with what you're investigating. It's got to be something new

988
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 1: in the field. You can't repeat anything. You've got to

989
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: literally bring new science to the world. And so then

990
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: you've got to design your studies based on this gap

991
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: that you find in the science. Right. But I'm well

992
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: aware that I'm human, right, I'm doing everything that I

993
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 1: can to make it as profound and as interesting and

994
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: as relevant and as accurate as can be. But all

995
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: of us PhD students are just humans trying to do

996
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: our best. And like this this idea that science is

997
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: flawless and nothing can compete with science. It's like, well,

998
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't actually understand science if because it's

999
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: all human driven. And even when you get the data,

1000
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: you go, well, who's interpreting the data and what are

1001
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: their beliefs and what are their biases and what do

1002
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:08,439
Speaker 1: they want to get out? And by the way, who

1003
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: financed this research? Like that? No, I mean that's true.

1004
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 2: That's so important. It's so important.

1005
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: Most research, most is financed by a private organization or

1006
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:23,439
Speaker 1: a publicly listed organization. And something I wanted to tell

1007
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: you just circling back is like you were talking about

1008
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: being around someone who's dying and like pass away in

1009
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: front of you and you realize, oh, they're not there

1010
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 1: now are They're gone now? And six years ago I

1011
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: was training with my Sorry to my listeners, but you

1012
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 1: don't know this story. I don't think I was training

1013
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: with one of my best mates, is my training partner.

1014
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: We've been training at Bloke Thing. We've been lifting weights

1015
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:51,919
Speaker 1: in the gym for twenty years. He did a set

1016
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: of chin ups. You know what chinups are, twenty reps,

1017
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:58,919
Speaker 1: held his breath, stupid had a cardiac arrest in front

1018
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 1: of me, literally in front of me, went to the ground,

1019
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 1: died dead, heart stopped and obviously, you know, so I

1020
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: went into action. But he was one hundred and something

1021
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: Kilo's ex mister Australia pro bodybuild a fucking I really

1022
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: want someone lighter to die next time. That would be

1023
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: very handy. So I flipped him over like the bigger

1024
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: rangetan that is. And I'm like, oh, and I just

1025
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: knew that he wasn't there, and I'm just looking at

1026
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 1: him and it wasn't him. It was just a dead body.

1027
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: I know that sounds it was just a dead body.

1028
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: And Mark I call him the crab because he looks

1029
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 1: like a fucking crustacean. The crab was not there, and

1030
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: so and I had this awareness the whole time that

1031
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: without trying to be because obviously it's traumatic, it's all

1032
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 1: the things, but in the moment, you're just doing what

1033
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: you need to do. But it's just a dead body

1034
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: that you're trying to make undead. So he was dead

1035
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: for seventeen minutes. Seventeen minutes, chais he? And eleven of

1036
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: those was just me and him and the ambos got

1037
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 1: there at about all the paramedics, who were fucking amazing,

1038
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: by the way, much better at that job than me.

1039
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 1: So hey, guys, get there earlier, be quicker. Now they

1040
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 1: are amazing. But yeah, that what you said. When I

1041
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: just it's like, and it's not something I've thought about,

1042
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: but just I was just over the top of him

1043
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: doing all the shit I had to do to kind

1044
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: of give him some hope. And I went, oh, Mark's

1045
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: not here. Ye, Mark is like his spirit, his energy,

1046
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 1: his whatever, like he's not I don't know where he is,

1047
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 1: but he isn't here. This is just a dead body

1048
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: that I'm working on and while I still of course

1049
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: had all the compassion and all the drive and all

1050
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: the motivation to try to reverse that. But yeah, it's

1051
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 1: like obviously.

1052
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 2: Recognize that, and you you know there's no spirit there,

1053
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 2: It's just just a vessel. My ear is like, okay,

1054
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 2: so right now I'm getting like this really really strong

1055
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 2: piercing noise in my right ear, which says to me

1056
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 2: that it's Mark, who's like trying to Yeah, that's like

1057
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 2: really piercing and wow, and I'll talk you through it,

1058
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 2: so right side. So therefore that says to me that

1059
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 2: it's male. Did he kisses? Did he like do I

1060
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 2: don't know what this is, but kiss his bicep? Yeah?

1061
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: Is that a?

1062
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 2: I don't know?

1063
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: Well he did? He did hair flick like a he did?

1064
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 1: He did flex a lot on stage. I don't remember

1065
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: him kissing his bicep, but yeah, I mean very But

1066
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: he's funny because on stage, especially walking around and essentially

1067
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 1: a pair of jocks in front of a thousand people

1068
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 1: flexing your shit, you can't be any more exposed than that.

1069
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: I guess you could take it off right. But away

1070
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: from that, he's an introvert and shy quiet. So but yeah,

1071
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 1: it just owned one stage. Yeah, those moments where you go, oh,

1072
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 1: like the door at the end of the corridor, like

1073
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: him dying, like you know, my.

1074
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 2: Me to like unpack this now. But I'm like, this

1075
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 2: doesn't happen all the time. But I did you did

1076
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 2: you find that really challenge after he died? And did

1077
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 2: you go through a dark period?

1078
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 1: So after he died and got better, there was immense

1079
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 1: well when when he finally see when he came back

1080
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: what I call online right seventeen minutes later, the chances

1081
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 1: of him having much brain function were not high. The

1082
01:07:55,920 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 1: chances of him having no ongoing kind of brain issues

1083
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: were pretty much zero, right, So I was very worried.

1084
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: But what is weird, Chezi is in that those seventeen minutes,

1085
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: especially the first eleven where it was just me and him,

1086
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: I was so calm. It was ridiculous, Like I was

1087
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 1: so in flow. I wasn't. I don't know how, and

1088
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to pump up my ties. This is

1089
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 1: just I was not that worried. I mean, I'm sure

1090
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: I was worried, but you would think the level of

1091
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: anxiety and overwhelm would be fucking fifteen out of ten

1092
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't. I was just in flow. I was just

1093
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:42,679
Speaker 1: where I needed to be, doing what I needed to do.

1094
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 1: And if it was a stranger in the supermarket, I

1095
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 1: would do exactly the same thing, exactly the same way,

1096
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: with exactly the same level of care. But yeah, and

1097
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 1: then I don't know, I had a weird sense of calm,

1098
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: and I even though statistically and logically he was probably

1099
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: going to die, like just I didn't think he was

1100
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 1: going to die, Like I thought, this is temporary, He's

1101
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: coming back. Yeah, I just had a I don't know,

1102
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:16,799
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't know that that was any spiritual download,

1103
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 1: but I I didn't, you know, even though logically with

1104
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 1: a sciencey brain and you know, fucking having I've had

1105
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: similar experiences because I've worked in gym's my whole life

1106
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 1: and around you know, people going through stuff. Yeah, but

1107
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 1: I just thought, no, he's not going to die. And yeah,

1108
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 1: so he didn't.

1109
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 2: He came back one.

1110
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 1: Hundred pcent fine, now one hundred percent fine, like zero

1111
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: issues nothing, He's got a pacemaker, like, he didn't have

1112
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: a heart attack. His actual heart is fine. It was electrical.

1113
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:58,600
Speaker 1: His heart just stopped beating. And even when that's insane.

1114
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 2: So science can't explain, right.

1115
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 1: No, even when look, I've got a theory and this

1116
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: is just you know, my bogan working theory. But they

1117
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 1: call it idiopathic. So when they don't know the cause

1118
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 1: of something in medicine, they say it's idiopathic. So it's

1119
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: an idiopathic cardio cardiac arrest. They don't know the cause

1120
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: because they did obviously they analyzed his heart inside out,

1121
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: upside down, and there's nothing wrong with his heart. My

1122
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: theory was because he just he'd worked on his he'd

1123
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:34,759
Speaker 1: been working all day in the heat. He drinks fucking

1124
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,839
Speaker 1: energy drinks, which I hate, by the way, knock yourselves

1125
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 1: out everyone, but I hate them right because they're just

1126
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: full of shits and caffeine. They're literally a cardiac stimulant,

1127
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:51,919
Speaker 1: like they stimulate car your heart right and your nervous system.

1128
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 1: And he was dehydrated. He had I don't know, I

1129
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: reckon the equivalent of twenty cups of coffee on board,

1130
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 1: which are the it's heart rate, blood pressure, and then

1131
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:05,599
Speaker 1: he did twenty chins twenty reps and held his breath. Well,

1132
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: that's stupid in the first place. So your blood pressure

1133
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 1: goes to a million over two million when you're doing that,

1134
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: and he just put his heart under so much pressure

1135
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 1: that it just stopped. But there was no actual damage

1136
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 1: to the heart, which is a miracle. But when I

1137
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 1: offered that kind of my thesis, they shut me down.

1138
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:28,639
Speaker 1: They're like, ah, nah, it's not that. I go, what's

1139
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 1: your theory and they're like, ah, I don't know, but anyway,

1140
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. But yeah, he's good. He's good on

1141
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: that then.

1142
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 2: And I've got a question for you. So did he

1143
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 2: if he was, you know, dead body his spirit? Can

1144
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:47,719
Speaker 2: he remember what happened? Can he remember only?

1145
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: Yeah? That's his only recollection? Is that is I don't

1146
01:11:52,439 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 1: know if it's a memory, but an experience of absolute bliss, Yeah, bliss,

1147
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 1: just tranquility, just like no, you know, there was no

1148
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 1: like light. There was no you know, there was no

1149
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 1: crawling out of the darkness into some beautiful light or

1150
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 1: you know, there was none of that, which I wish

1151
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 1: there was. I'm like, come on, bro, make something nun

1152
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 1: but for him, But for him, there wasn't. But he

1153
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 1: can be an anxious person because he's he's because he's

1154
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 1: an introvert. So there are some situations he doesn't love,

1155
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, he is something to the effect of I've

1156
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 1: never had that feeling before, never, like, never be profound.

1157
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 2: Enough to know that it was different. So I used

1158
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 2: to watch, like during the process when I was writing

1159
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 2: the book, I used to watch on there's this thing

1160
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 2: channel called Coming Home about all these people from right

1161
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 2: around the world who talk their near death experiences, and

1162
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:10,720
Speaker 2: it's it's so much that aren't I guess understand. But

1163
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:16,120
Speaker 2: there's so many similarities that that bliss feeling that people

1164
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:24,439
Speaker 2: feeling like, you know, time stood still sometimes and I

1165
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 2: related because I've not had a near death experience, but

1166
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 2: i have dissociated. I've had all the you know, mental conditions.

1167
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 2: I have dissociated like before when I have you know,

1168
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 2: kind of risen up out of my own looking down

1169
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 2: at myself, and I, you know, that's how I would

1170
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 2: think an ND would. But that still doesn't answer who

1171
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 2: is ringing in my ear?

1172
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 1: So?

1173
01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 2: Did you lose another male in your life?

1174
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 1: Yeah? Really? Yeah, one of my best afterwards. Yes, I did,

1175
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:11,599
Speaker 1: so my first ever trainer when I started Harper's. In fact,

1176
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 1: it's funny you say, so, I have a bracelet. Can

1177
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 1: you see that bracelet? That's very politically incorrectly called a

1178
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 1: slave bracelet, right, so it doesn't come off, there's no clasp, right,

1179
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:29,200
Speaker 1: it's screwed on. Now, my first employee, who I loved

1180
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:40,360
Speaker 1: like a brother. I'm just gathering myself, folks. So his

1181
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 1: name was Maddie And anyway, he died when he was

1182
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 1: twenty four, and he just shouldn't have died obviously, and yeah,

1183
01:14:55,439 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 1: I yeah, I went in and said goodbye to him,

1184
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:04,640
Speaker 1: and he was on life support and he was, you know,

1185
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 1: essentially brainded and he just looked perfect, like he just

1186
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 1: looked like him, And yeah, that fucked me up. He

1187
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:18,720
Speaker 1: probably can't tell. Yeah, no, I'm so good at this.

1188
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 1: So I on this bracelet. I have my initials and

1189
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: Maddie's initials, And since then, which was nineteen ninety five,

1190
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 1: this has not come off. So it's been on my

1191
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: risk for thirty one years. It's not come off for

1192
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 1: one second. So yeah, I still feel a strong connection.

1193
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:44,560
Speaker 1: Probably can't tell.

1194
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 2: So what, And I'm obviously not tuning in and I'm

1195
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 2: just like shit, you can probably see my eyes were

1196
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 2: darting around. There's like a dragon fly. I don't even

1197
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 2: can't I can't turn my computer around. But there's like

1198
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 2: a drag then just flying around and like looking in

1199
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 2: and I all of these things. I just read as

1200
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:11,280
Speaker 2: and that he was with you when you went through

1201
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 2: that experience. He you know, friend, and why you felt

1202
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:20,639
Speaker 2: so calm the dragon flies back, my phone's off, Otherwise

1203
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 2: I'd take it.

1204
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, we we, I mean we So I employed nearly

1205
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,760
Speaker 1: five hundred trainers and he was training one. So he

1206
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: was the genus. He was the first other person in

1207
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:38,559
Speaker 1: my organization, Harpers, the very creatively named Harpers. He was

1208
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:41,400
Speaker 1: there was me and then him. So we and there

1209
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 1: was no industry then. There was no personal training industry,

1210
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 1: no course, no qualification, no insurance, and so we were

1211
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:49,760
Speaker 1: making us up, making it up as we went. We're

1212
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 1: talking about nineteen eighty nine, nine and ninety, right, And

1213
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: so he was like my little brother. We started work

1214
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 1: at five point thirty together. We had breakfast together, we

1215
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: had lunch together. We would and he was He and

1216
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 1: I were quite similarly. It was a way better looking

1217
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:08,759
Speaker 1: and way more popular. But I'm not even being funny,

1218
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 1: like literally he had he had long curly hair down

1219
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 1: his back. He looked like a fucking model. I wanted

1220
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 1: to punch him in the face constantly, but because I'm

1221
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 1: insecure and fucking hideous. But you know, but we had

1222
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:23,800
Speaker 1: a great relationship and I was in no level, no

1223
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 1: way prepared for that, and yeah, that fucked me up.

1224
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 1: So I don't talk about him a lot because I

1225
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:35,000
Speaker 1: don't want to. But yeah, and it's funny because I've

1226
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,080
Speaker 1: had other people die since, but it doesn't have the

1227
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:41,200
Speaker 1: still has an impact, but not the same impact. Yeah,

1228
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 1: so thanks for asking me that.

1229
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 2: Just fuck sorry, fuck? Do you do you feel does

1230
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 2: he just pop into your head? Oh?

1231
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think yes, he pops in And did you.

1232
01:17:58,360 --> 01:17:59,200
Speaker 2: Talk to him?

1233
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 1: So I don't talk to him, but I have a

1234
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 1: it like this sounds weird, but I feel like there's

1235
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 1: like it literally feels like he died last week, whereas

1236
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 1: with other people that's not the case. But it feels

1237
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:23,639
Speaker 1: like the word that's in my head is proximity, whether

1238
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:24,960
Speaker 1: that whatever that means.

1239
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 2: But what do you think that means? Why would you

1240
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 2: choose that word.

1241
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:36,479
Speaker 1: Because he's around, he's around, he's around, I want to know,

1242
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,719
Speaker 1: I guess yeah.

1243
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:45,600
Speaker 2: Because that's that's big, right, And that's like I I

1244
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:51,639
Speaker 2: lost my really good girlfriend and she she was into

1245
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 2: any of this stuff, and from the other side, she

1246
01:18:55,720 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 2: pushed me into this. Yes, wow, I feel and I talk.

1247
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:04,800
Speaker 2: There's a whole chapter on her. She was such a

1248
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 2: force and when she passed away it rocked me. I

1249
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 2: had so many people in my life who have passed,

1250
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:16,720
Speaker 2: but she I just never expected to have at her

1251
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:20,160
Speaker 2: and we both had a baby at the same time,

1252
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 2: and it was so unfair that she was taken.

1253
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:25,760
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, oh.

1254
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 2: That proximity and that I know that's feeling very well.

1255
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's so. I mean, there's so much that

1256
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 1: we don't know, and even you know, like, of course

1257
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 1: I'm not fearless. Of course there's stuff that doesn't scare me.

1258
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 1: It makes me curious, you know, I'm not and there's

1259
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:48,600
Speaker 1: probably a couple of things that freaked me out a

1260
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 1: little bit. I'm like, la la la la la, don'ta know,

1261
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to know, probably a bit of that,

1262
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:57,680
Speaker 1: But you know, it's it's like me not wanting to

1263
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 1: know something doesn't mean that there's something's not there, you know,

1264
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:05,960
Speaker 1: it's not me not wanting to open that door doesn't

1265
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 1: mean that the thing behind the door doesn't exist. Like

1266
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm just keeping the door shut. And then you go

1267
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 1: why are you keeping the door shut? What's that about? Well,

1268
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:16,160
Speaker 1: that's about fear. Yeah, I mean it's all, you know,

1269
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 1: like most of our issues. When you think about overthinking anxiety,

1270
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:24,719
Speaker 1: this that avoidance, it comes back to fear of something.

1271
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:28,599
Speaker 1: It's like, fear is the common denominator, you know, and

1272
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:34,760
Speaker 1: sometimes you like, you know, people, people are scared of

1273
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 1: who they might be if they fucking actually open the

1274
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 1: door and go for a run through it, you know,

1275
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:43,679
Speaker 1: or what they might become, or what they might learn.

1276
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:49,720
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I've taken away from this whole experience

1277
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 2: in my life I was running from. I don't even know.

1278
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:59,719
Speaker 2: I was just so full of fear. Fear of being judged,

1279
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 2: fear year of being fear of being outcast, fear of

1280
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:06,479
Speaker 2: being sent to hell.

1281
01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:12,599
Speaker 1: Fear of you know, yes, yes, yes, hey, you're great.

1282
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 1: Your book is exciting. As I said, I'm going to

1283
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:19,439
Speaker 1: dive into it in about four or eight weeks. I

1284
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:21,640
Speaker 1: could tell you a lie and everyone a line say,

1285
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 1: I've read it's fucking amazing. But clearly everyone who's read

1286
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,599
Speaker 1: it is loving it, and it's top of the best

1287
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:31,880
Speaker 1: sellers and it's crushing it everyone. It's called the weird

1288
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 1: little girl who talks to ghosts. H. I think you're great.

1289
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:39,880
Speaker 1: I think you're great.

1290
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to go away and you're going

1291
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 2: to have some big moment.

1292
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well maybe maybe I'm equally excited and terrified. So

1293
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:55,920
Speaker 1: you and your fucking predictions. Just stay to yourself. Keep

1294
01:21:55,960 --> 01:22:03,080
Speaker 1: that dragonfly ah, keep that ship under your hat. Chezi. Yeah,

1295
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 1: all the best with everything. I appreciate your vulnerability and

1296
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: openness and the gift that you are to so many people.

1297
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 1: And keep growing and learning and keep that door wide open.

1298
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 1: And fuck what anyone thinks. And you know, if they're

1299
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:20,880
Speaker 1: not on board, that's fine. Nobody needs to be on board.

1300
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:24,599
Speaker 1: And we're not trying to recruit anyone to anything. It's

1301
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:28,679
Speaker 1: just you sharing your truth, your experiences. And I think

1302
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:31,639
Speaker 1: that's the thing. It's like, I talk about a lot

1303
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 1: of shit, but I'm not trying to recruit anyone. I'm

1304
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:35,160
Speaker 1: just going, hey, this is what I think and what

1305
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:38,280
Speaker 1: I feel and what i've seen. Do with that or

1306
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: don't do with that what you will. And I think

1307
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 1: that's what we're doing today. So where can people get

1308
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:43,920
Speaker 1: the book?

1309
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 2: So book Topia at the moment, it's yeah, it's selling

1310
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:54,640
Speaker 2: out pretty quickly, so do you have Yeah, they do

1311
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 2: have copies, so if you head to book topiare online

1312
01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 2: and look for the Weird little Girl who talked to

1313
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 2: go the world's longest title.

1314
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 1: But anyway, I like the way it's done because it

1315
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 1: just says the weird little girl and it's almost like

1316
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:12,280
Speaker 1: and in smaller writing, so it looks great. And I

1317
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:15,680
Speaker 1: love that photo. That photo my.

1318
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:20,679
Speaker 2: Holy Communion and I turned up in a pink dress

1319
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 2: and I wish I could find the group photo because

1320
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 2: everybody else was in white Brides of Jesus and I

1321
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:33,200
Speaker 2: was there pink, again, highlighting that I was different.

1322
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 1: Well, I remember my first communion. I was a little fat,

1323
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:43,679
Speaker 1: chubby fuck and it's like there's all these skinny kids

1324
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 1: and Jumbo in the middle.

1325
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 2: Oh my.

1326
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 1: But anyway, we had a time. I will say goodbye

1327
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 1: fair but for the minute, congrats. I hope it goes great,

1328
01:23:55,240 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 1: and keep being you because this version of you is fantastic.

1329
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:01,640
Speaker 1: Thanks Chez, thank you.