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Speaker 1: There's no denying that our modern world actually makes it

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Speaker 1: harder for us as human beings to thrive. We now

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Speaker 1: have an abundance of ultra processed foods on our supermarket shelves,

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Speaker 1: growing emotional disconnection in a world full of technology and

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Speaker 1: a reliance on staying within our comfort zone. But choosing

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Speaker 1: the path of least resistance could be putting our health,

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Speaker 1: energy and focus at risk. I'm at Middleton and this

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Speaker 1: is head game today, Doctor Paul Taylor, on escaping the

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Speaker 1: comfort trap, optimizing yourself for peak performance, and turning life's

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Speaker 1: pressures into progress. Paul, how are you, buddy?

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Speaker 2: I am very well. Indeed, it's another day above grind,

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Speaker 2: so it's a good day now.

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Speaker 1: Paul, you joined the military at a young age. Take

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Speaker 1: me through that sort of transition from school into into

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Speaker 1: the military, and also what was your upbringing like, did

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Speaker 1: you have military parents to family around you.

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Speaker 2: I didn't have any military parents. I was an Irish

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Speaker 2: Catholic who joined the British Armed Forces were as rare

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Speaker 2: as hands teeth. Interesting, but I was brought up in

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Speaker 2: a mixed marriage, which has a different connotation in Northern

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Speaker 2: Ireland than everywhere else. Right, And I always lived in

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Speaker 2: Protestant neighborhoods because my parents didn't want us to grow

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Speaker 2: up bigoted. So that's probably where my resilience and hardiness

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Speaker 2: training actually started.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll pick that a bit for us, mate, What

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Speaker 1: does that look like?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so look growing up in Northern Ireland. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know what it was like over there. I grew

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Speaker 2: up in the seventies when all the ship was going on,

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Speaker 2: and like I said, my mom and dad and they married.

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Speaker 2: My mom was a Protestant, her dad didn't speak to

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Speaker 2: her for nearly a decade because she married a Catholic.

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Speaker 2: So we were deliberately brought up as Catholics, but in

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Speaker 2: product neighborhoods, which was reasonably resilience building, going to school

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Speaker 2: in a Catholic uniform through a Protestant neighborhood. And then

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Speaker 2: you know, I went on and I went to university,

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Speaker 2: and that's where I joined the Officer Training Corps at

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Speaker 2: the university is because some of the guys I played

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Speaker 2: football with and they were Protestants and neighboring it and

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Speaker 2: they said, hey, you said, come on and have it,

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Speaker 2: and I went along and absolutely loved it. And then

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Speaker 2: I ended up applying to join the Royal Marines, and

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Speaker 2: I got accepted to be an officer in the Royal Marines.

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Speaker 2: But we went traveling, me and my mate, and the

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Speaker 2: liaison officer forgot to put the forms in and then

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Speaker 2: I ticked over the age group limit. So I ended

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Speaker 2: up then joining the Royal Navy as an ur crew officer.

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Speaker 2: And so when did a year's officer training and three

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Speaker 2: years flying training, which was just fregging awesome, it really was.

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Speaker 2: And then my first tour was doing helicopter anti submarine warfare.

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Speaker 2: I've been Scotland, and then I got another gig doing

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Speaker 2: helicopter search and rescue up there, which was just tremendous.

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Speaker 2: Like I described search and rescue as probably fifty percent excitement,

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Speaker 2: forty percent boredom and ten percent terror. That probably yours right.

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Speaker 1: When you first started officers train. How did that affect

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Speaker 1: your family life? You know, just looking back on on

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Speaker 1: you know, your your life back in Northern Ireland.

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Speaker 2: Well, actually my dad he was in the Royal Nearby

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Speaker 2: Auxiliary Service right, so that had done. He had a

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Speaker 2: little bit of play with that, so he was he

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Speaker 2: was supportive of it. I actually got a probably my

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Speaker 2: best matit time never spoke to me again because he

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Speaker 2: was a Catholic, and because I joined the British Armed Forces,

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Speaker 2: that was just cut me off. So you know, it

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Speaker 2: was it was. It was interesting in Northern Ireland and

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Speaker 2: then you got to be careful when you go back, right,

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Speaker 2: just because of all the shit that was going on then.

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Speaker 2: But the guy I pretty much wanted to get out

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Speaker 2: of Northern Ireland from a very early age. I just realized,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's just the insular nature of it and

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Speaker 2: you know, the US and name thing. Because I was

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Speaker 2: sort of piggy in the middle a little bit, I

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Speaker 2: just didn't want anything to do with it, and I

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Speaker 2: probably had a bit of a sense of adventure and

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Speaker 2: that's why the Armed Forces actually appealed to me. But

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Speaker 2: it was, it was absolutely brilliant. You know, as you'll know,

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Speaker 2: the bonding that you do through there is just you

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Speaker 2: do not get that in Civy Street. And that's what

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Speaker 2: that's what a lot of people struggle with, right is

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Speaker 2: when they go to Civy Street.

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Speaker 1: Is just that the sense of belonging.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, being a member of a tribe, all rowing

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Speaker 2: together in the same thing, you know, driven by purpose,

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Speaker 2: all of that stuff. So so that was probably the

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Speaker 2: harder transition was actually leaving the forces. But I ended

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Speaker 2: up moving to Australia, so you know, a whole new

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Speaker 2: different area I went into.

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Speaker 1: Were you learning and were you studying psychology and you

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Speaker 1: know and doctrine during your days in the military or

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Speaker 1: was that just a career flip as soon as you

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Speaker 1: wanted a newer, new belonging, a new identity such.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, there was a sort of an orderly transition, right.

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Speaker 2: So before I joined I'd done a master's in sports

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Speaker 2: science and so my secondary roles, you know, you have

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Speaker 2: secondary rules. My secondary rules were all with sports officer

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Speaker 2: and I remember when I was doing search and rescue.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of sitting around waiting for

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Speaker 2: the buzzer to go off on twenty four argidis after

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Speaker 2: you've done a bit of a training flight and done

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Speaker 2: your work, and a lot of guys would sit and

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Speaker 2: play video games, and I'm like, that's just a wasted life.

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Speaker 2: So I studied. I went and I saw the boss

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Speaker 2: and said I wanted to do a part time masters

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Speaker 2: and nutrition at Glasgow, and the Navy were great. They

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Speaker 2: supported me on that. So I did that masters and

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Speaker 2: actually the moment when I decided it was going to

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Speaker 2: be a career was there were I was at the

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Speaker 2: point where I was either going to leave in about

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Speaker 2: eighteen months because it was an eight year short career

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Speaker 2: commission for our crew, or go full career, and then

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Speaker 2: it me to man get killed in a helicopter crash

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Speaker 2: out and the Gulf two helicopters flying into each other

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Speaker 2: that didn't really have to happen, and you know, because

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Speaker 2: of all of that, I thought, fuck this, I'm out

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Speaker 2: of here. I don't want some dickhead being in control

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Speaker 2: of my destiny and decided then that I was just

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Speaker 2: going to go and do something else. I remember it

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Speaker 2: was about a week after that. I was walking across

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Speaker 2: the pariade ground and an old chief stopped me because

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Speaker 2: I had started writing it, writing a well being newsletter

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Speaker 2: because my background in sports science and I studying nutrition.

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Speaker 2: And he stopped me and he said, he said, hey,

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Speaker 2: that newsletter you wrote was awesome. It had a big

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Speaker 2: impact on my family and my kids. And he said

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Speaker 2: thank you, and he walked away. And that night I

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Speaker 2: went home and I wrote a tombstone statement, right, well,

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Speaker 2: I'd like to be written on my tombstone and I

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Speaker 2: wrote down military man turned educator to help others with

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Speaker 2: their well being. I love that.

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Speaker 1: And you know what we do similar in the military,

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Speaker 1: which really helps is when we go on tour, and

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Speaker 1: you'll know about this, you write a death letter and ultimately,

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Speaker 1: you know, some people just you know, get rid of

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Speaker 1: that letter when they're done. But if you read that letter,

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Speaker 1: if you're fortunate enough to come back off tall, which

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Speaker 1: I did with my troop, you almost say to the well,

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Speaker 1: why aren't you implementing Yeah, you've written it down a

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Speaker 1: bit like your tombstone statement is like, wow, this is

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Speaker 1: when and when you visually see it and you read

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Speaker 1: it out and you hear it, you can process it,

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Speaker 1: you can take it in so completely get that statement.

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Speaker 1: And was that the final sort of nail in your

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Speaker 1: coffee football I'm leaving.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was it. I was leaving at that time.

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Speaker 2: Then I'd met a young lady in Ecuador when, of course,

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Speaker 2: so I used to I used to save up all

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Speaker 2: my leave and bugger off to a third world country,

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Speaker 2: right because I needed to get away with from all

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Speaker 2: of the structure of the military and I needed a

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Speaker 2: bit of madness. So I just used to go backpacking

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Speaker 2: was an Ecuador and I met somebody who's now my wife.

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Speaker 2: She came and lived in Scotland with me and ended

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Speaker 2: up dragging me, kicking and screaming all the way to Australia,

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Speaker 2: as you can imagine. So I set up in Australia

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Speaker 2: as an exercise physiologist and nutritionist and then was working

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Speaker 2: one on one with corporate clients. And I realized after

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Speaker 2: a while this isn't about telling people about exercise and nutrition,

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Speaker 2: It's about behavior change. I went back and studied neuroscience,

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Speaker 2: and then a couple of years ago I started doing

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Speaker 2: a pH d in psychology because for me, that was

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Speaker 2: the last piece of the puzzle. And so that you know,

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Speaker 2: it's been a long journey of continuous improvement and engagement

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Speaker 2: in life, which I think you've I think you've got

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Speaker 2: to be in it, and I think you know to

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Speaker 2: your point writing that that death letter and when you

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Speaker 2: have a brush with death, because that helicopter I would

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Speaker 2: have been in probably if somebody hadn't got a medical

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Speaker 2: discharge in Scotland and I got the call to say, hey,

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Speaker 2: do you want to go up in Scotland? So when

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure you've had a few brushes with death

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Speaker 2: right along with you start to think about your own mortality,

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Speaker 2: or at least I did. And last year I went

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Speaker 2: to see a made of mine. Right, I played soccer

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Speaker 2: until I was fifty three, and I said to him, heimy,

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Speaker 2: And it was a Cardiolos played soccer with me, and

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Speaker 2: I said, Heiming, I'm in my fifty so I want

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Speaker 2: to get a full check up on my heart. I

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Speaker 2: don't care aboutcholesterol. I want to know how my heart

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Speaker 2: is going. And he did all these tests, came back,

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Speaker 2: brought me in and said, hey, good news is your fit

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Speaker 2: as a fiddle. Bad news is you were born with

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Speaker 2: a dodgy aortic valve, either a bicustomer aortic valve. And

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Speaker 2: he said, it's going to kill you eventually, unless.

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Speaker 1: What is that? Can you break that down first forwards?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, So yeah, your orta is the majority that

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Speaker 2: comes out of your heart right and your left ventricle

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Speaker 2: fills pumps the blood and it goes through this valve

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Speaker 2: that's supposed to be a three way valve, so it's

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Speaker 2: a one way. It's a three leaf so one way valve.

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Speaker 2: The blood comes through the valve. Shot, so's your heart

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Speaker 2: fills up again and off it goes. So I was

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Speaker 2: born with a defect that I never knew about. I

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Speaker 2: had only two leafs on it. And then over time

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Speaker 2: what happens is it doesn't close properly, and then you

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Speaker 2: get blood regurgitating back in starts to stretch your chamber,

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Speaker 2: and it will stretch a for a bit, but eventually

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Speaker 2: you get heart failure or your aorta just bursts and

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Speaker 2: you die instantly.

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Speaker 1: All I'm thinking about is how one you know, the

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Speaker 1: rigorous training that the military put you through, especially yourself

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Speaker 1: with your combat survival training, your rescue and combat survival

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Speaker 1: training which you would have done as air crew, where

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Speaker 1: you know you are pushed to you. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: done those courses. You've done, You've done, I've done the

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Speaker 1: big but even listen to Big Brother, cause by that

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Speaker 1: stage you're a super conditioned to it, you know. So

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Speaker 1: you never had any inclinition that you had this condition

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Speaker 1: was in the military.

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Speaker 2: Not at all. No, not at all, And most people

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Speaker 2: don't because it takes decades for it to manifact. And

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Speaker 2: what my cardiologist said, he said to me, people like you,

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Speaker 2: you meet me, you will realize fucking hell, my fitness

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Speaker 2: is dropping off here, and I had just started noticing

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Speaker 2: a little bit, but I just put it down to

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Speaker 2: the edge of me in my fifties. Fuck, I gotta

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Speaker 2: work harder. And then you work harder and you make

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Speaker 2: the condition worse, right, And so I was very very

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Speaker 2: lucky that I was proactive and when got it done.

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Speaker 2: But the point I wanted to me is that you

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Speaker 2: then do a bit of a risk assessment, right. You

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Speaker 2: have done risk assessments all the time I did as

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Speaker 2: a crew, and you think, Okay, what's the likelihood of

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Speaker 2: this happening, and what's the impact? And I read it

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Speaker 2: all up. There's less than a one percent chance to

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Speaker 2: be dying on the operating table, but the IMPACT's pretty

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Speaker 2: fucking big, right, So rather than just push that to

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Speaker 2: the side, I said, no, no, no, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: use this just like the stoics did. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: meditate on my death. And so for six months before

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Speaker 2: I knew, I'm like, let's just pretend that this doesn't

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Speaker 2: go well, right, So what does that mean? What does

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Speaker 2: that mean about your life? The way you're living your

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Speaker 2: life right now? I how does that change your perspective?

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Speaker 2: And I forced myself to actually say to myself, well, hey,

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Speaker 2: this is coming right, And a lot of people, you know,

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Speaker 2: we just bumble through life thinking, fuck, it's never going

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Speaker 2: to happen to me. That's not going to happen until

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Speaker 2: I'm in my eighties or nineties. And it's only how

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Speaker 2: many times do you hear somebody who has a near

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Speaker 2: death experience and then they changed their life and they

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Speaker 2: change their focus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it takes something drastic like that. They're being a

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Speaker 1: reactive rather than proactive, right totally.

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Speaker 2: So I thought the Winston Churchill never waste a good crisis,

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Speaker 2: all right, And so I thought, I actually want to

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Speaker 2: use this as fuel. But I remember walking out of

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Speaker 2: the meeting with the cardiologist, and as I was walking

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Speaker 2: in my car, as you can imagine, fucking stuff's going

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Speaker 2: through my head like Jesus. And then the words of Seneca,

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Speaker 2: the Stoic philosopher. Don't if you're into the Stoics or not,

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Speaker 2: but the words of Seneca, it just hit me like

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Speaker 2: a slap across the face. I pitied the man who

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Speaker 2: has not faced adversity, because he has not faced a

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Speaker 2: worthy opponent, and no one, not even him, knows what

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Speaker 2: he is capable of. So I went straight back home

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Speaker 2: and I rode on my bathroom mirror worthy opponent, and

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Speaker 2: I wrote a training program, and I said to myself,

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Speaker 2: this is what I've trained for, this is what the

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Speaker 2: military was all about, my combat survival training, all the

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Speaker 2: CrossFit sess is the ice bath has all been to

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Speaker 2: train me for this worthy opponent and I and I

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Speaker 2: have six months to optimize myself and I get to

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Speaker 2: choose the arena. So I embraced it as a worthy

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Speaker 2: opponent to drive me to get better. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's really key, and it's part of hardiness, is that

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Speaker 2: challenge orientation, about viewing potential adversity as a challenge rather

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Speaker 2: than a threat, and something to actually lift you up.

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Speaker 2: I think that's just so key in all of this

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Speaker 2: because we.

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Speaker 1: All have it. We all have it in us, right,

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Speaker 1: And like you said before, normally it takes a dramatic

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Speaker 1: or drastic sort of situation to unfold for for it

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Speaker 1: to kick in. But that could be too late as well,

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Speaker 1: couldn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, for most people it's too late, and they

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Speaker 2: just fucking sleep walk through their lives. Yeah yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I do a lot of corporate stuff, and there's people

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Speaker 2: who are just on autopilot, as you're saying, and they're

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Speaker 2: just nah, they're going through the motions and they're deferring

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Speaker 2: their life for their retirement and that's when I'm going

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Speaker 2: to do all this stuff I want. And they're completely

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Speaker 2: fucking wasting their life as they go through. And you know,

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Speaker 2: that's part of hardiness. Commitment is about being fully engaged

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Speaker 2: in life, right. And anybody's read any of your books,

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Speaker 2: and as I said, my little fellow's reading one of

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Speaker 2: yours right now. You are fully engaged in life. Right.

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Speaker 2: There's stuff that you're in absolute that you just if

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Speaker 2: you're in it, I'm in it right. And it's also

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Speaker 2: hardiness commitments about that bigger sense of meaning and purpose.

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Speaker 2: And there are so many people these days who are

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Speaker 2: spending an increasing amount of their spur time within the

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Speaker 2: confines of four walls with their heads buried in a

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Speaker 2: fucking screen, right, either scrolling through social media or watching

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Speaker 2: shit TV on Netflix. I don't remember Socrates are Aristotle

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Speaker 2: saying that the meaning of life is to be entertained

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Speaker 2: by bullshit capin dog videos on fucking YouTube, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Part of the autopilot, right, that's part of like you said,

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Speaker 1: you know, living in the void, there's so many distractions

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Speaker 1: out there. There's so many you know, there's so many

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Speaker 1: comfort zones, comfort bubbles that you can jump into that

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Speaker 1: it doesn't force you outside of your comfort zone, you know.

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Speaker 1: And again the discipline to be able to make those

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Speaker 1: decisions and action something like that is taken away from

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Speaker 1: you because you are literally jumping from a technology bubble

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Speaker 1: to to a comfort bubble, to a gluttony bubble to

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Speaker 1: a you know, it's there's so many distractions that is.

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Speaker 1: How do you sort of break that cycle to to

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Speaker 1: think to yourself? Right, like we have of ultimately by

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Speaker 1: being pushed to our limits and beyond physically, psychologically, and emotionally.

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Speaker 1: I call it the trilogy. But people are so confused.

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Speaker 1: Everything is just put on a table for them. The

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Speaker 1: temptation to not focus on yourself and the temptation to

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Speaker 1: veer off and to live on autopilot is just so

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Speaker 1: in abundance. How do you break that cycle?

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Speaker 2: So I actually lead with this in my book, and

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Speaker 2: I talk about the story of Hercules, right, So it's

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Speaker 2: the ancient Greek so Hercules are Heracles as they call him.

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Speaker 2: But let's just go with Hercules. The Romans tweaked it

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Speaker 2: a little bit, but he is a son of Zeus

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Speaker 2: and the almighty God right, and Hercules is human. But

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Speaker 2: he finds himself one day at a part a fork

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Speaker 2: in the road, and there are two women, one on

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Speaker 2: each fork of the road. I don't know if you're

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Speaker 2: familiar with this story, but one is Kakia, who calls

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Speaker 2: herself Happiness, You demonea but her name is actually Vice,

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Speaker 2: and she says to Hercules, come down my path, and

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Speaker 2: you will have a path of ease and comfort and

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Speaker 2: debauchery at the cost of others, and you can have

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Speaker 2: anything that you want, and your life will be amazing.

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Speaker 2: And then the other lady is Arete, who's a bit

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Speaker 2: more understated but still has natural beauty, and she says

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Speaker 2: to him, my path is the true path. It is

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Speaker 2: a path of extreme difficulty and challenge. But through this

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Speaker 2: difficulty and challenge that is where you will find yourself,

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Speaker 2: and this is the path to true happiness. So Hercules

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Speaker 2: chooses that path and then is presented with the famous

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Speaker 2: twelve labors, where these are ridiculous things that he has

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Speaker 2: to do. He ends up getting killed on the last one,

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Speaker 2: but Zeus is so impressed with his character that he

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Speaker 2: turns him into a demigod. Right, And for me, this

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Speaker 2: is the choice that we're now faced with. Kakia has

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Speaker 2: undergone a revolution, right, and she's more worse subtle. She's

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Speaker 2: the one who brings us in with the temptations of

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Speaker 2: the social media and all of the comfort food and

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Speaker 2: the life of ease and all of that, with the

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Speaker 2: promise that this will be a life of ease and

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Speaker 2: comfort and one of happiness, whereas the other path is

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Speaker 2: still there. But we really have to choose it these days.

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Speaker 2: And so I like to say to people, when you're

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Speaker 2: in your eighties or year nineties, looking back on your life,

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Speaker 2: you got to ask yourself this question. Do I want

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Speaker 2: to look back and say that was a comfortable life

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Speaker 2: and easy life that was you know, had all of

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Speaker 2: these enjoyments, or do you want to look back and

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Speaker 2: say that was a life that I can be proud of.

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Speaker 2: Because if it's the latter, you have to choose the

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Speaker 2: path of arte. And ancient Greek is character, right, and

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Speaker 2: you know character, You know that that is forwards. The

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Speaker 2: origins of the word character in ancient Greek are the

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Speaker 2: mark of a chisel. Wow, aw cool as that right,

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Speaker 2: that is cool. Nobody ever developed good character by having

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Speaker 2: an easy life. You develop good characters by leaning into

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Speaker 2: discomfort and earning the marks of the chisel. So I

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Speaker 2: would say to people, you know, when you look back

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Speaker 2: on hard times in your life, don't fucking bury that

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Speaker 2: shit in the sund don't don't forget about it. Actually

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Speaker 2: were it with pride, those marks of the chisel, because

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Speaker 2: that's what's me and you who you are. Paul.

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Speaker 1: I love that, and you know I'm all about this that.

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Speaker 1: You know, you said your boys reading my books, but

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Speaker 1: you know I've been drilling this into people as well

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Speaker 1: since sort of looking back on my Special Forces career,

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Speaker 1: and I realized that the best times or you know,

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Speaker 1: the times that gave me self belief, that gave me

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Speaker 1: it made me real is what I was capable of

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Speaker 1: is when I was outside of my comfort zone. And

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Speaker 1: I always say there's no growth in comfort. You know,

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Speaker 1: I would get through something that I never never dreamed

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Speaker 1: that I would get through. Let's talk about Special Forces selectly.

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Speaker 1: You know the hill phase of the Special Forces selection.

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Speaker 1: You know it was literally I broke it down, yeah,

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Speaker 1: on the fan, to one foot in front of the other.

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Speaker 1: That's all I was thinking is just put one foot

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Speaker 1: and do not stop. You know the pain the is suffering,

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Speaker 1: and then you'd hit a pain barrier and then you

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Speaker 1: get a new lease of life. But I was understanding

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Speaker 1: my body because I was pushing myself. I was understanding

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Speaker 1: where my boundaries were, and they were just boundaries that

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Speaker 1: I could push even further and increment by increment, no percentage,

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Speaker 1: by a percentage. But then you realize what you're capable of.

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Speaker 1: When you realize what you're capable of. And I always

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Speaker 1: say this to people, I believe self belief is a

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Speaker 1: gift that you can only gift yourself because people can

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Speaker 1: say all they want that they believe in you, and

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Speaker 1: if you don't believe in yourself, it's just empty words, right,

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Speaker 1: just to share, you know, and it might give you

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Speaker 1: a bit of motivation in the time to commit to something,

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Speaker 1: but is you know, you have to Really is a

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Speaker 1: gift that you can only gift yourself through committing to yourself.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you've just summed up challenge orientation and hardiness

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Speaker 2: pretty much perfectly. Right. So challenge orientation is viewing a

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Speaker 2: potential adversity as a challenge that you lean into. But

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Speaker 2: here's what happens to your physiology and your psychology. To say,

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Speaker 2: we're presented with the same stressor if you viewed as

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Speaker 2: a challenge and I viewed as a threat, it's difference.

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Speaker 2: In psychology. You are what we call approach. In psychology,

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Speaker 2: you lean in, whereas I go into avoidance mode. Right,

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Speaker 2: threat threat bad, bad bad, But our physiology is very different.

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Speaker 2: With a challenge response, you activate the fight part of

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Speaker 2: our fight or flight nervous system right, which involves the

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Speaker 2: chemicals adrenaline and nora adrenaline. Right, that prepares you for action. Right,

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Speaker 2: and your blood vessel's diet. All of this good stuff happens,

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Speaker 2: and the half life of those chemicals is around a minute.

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Speaker 2: So after that stress is gone, it takes about four

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Speaker 2: half lives for the chemical to normalize. Within five minutes,

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Speaker 2: you are back to homeostasis. Now me in a threat response,

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Speaker 2: I release cortisol, different part of the stress response. It

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Speaker 2: comes over the top of the fireflight. You go into

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Speaker 2: defeat mode, You procrastinate, you avoid right, but the cortisol

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Speaker 2: the half life is way more than an hour, and

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Speaker 2: that means that five hours later, when you've been fucking

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Speaker 2: chilled for four hours fifty five minutes. I am still

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Speaker 2: in a stress response. Cordisol is going through my body,

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Speaker 2: attacking my organs, attacking my brain. And that is the

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Speaker 2: key is whether you choose to view it as a

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Speaker 2: challenge or a threat, right and choice. It is a choice.

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Speaker 2: But here's where the nuance is in the research, right,

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Speaker 2: And that's why I love geeking into the research. What

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Speaker 2: they've shown is that you can only really truly be

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Speaker 2: in a challenge response if you believe that you have

432
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 2: the resources to meet the demands or the stressor. And

433
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 2: how do we get that from doing hard stuff? Right?

434
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 2: All athletes want confidence. Any sports psychologists worth their salt

435
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 2: will say the best way to get confidence is to

436
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 2: do the work and know that you've done the work.

437
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: So this is the thing. We have to do hard stuff.

438
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: We have to teach our kids to do hard stuff.

439
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: And any parent that's listening, your kids can do hard stuff.

440
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 2: And by not pushing them to do hard stuff, you're

441
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 2: robbing them of future resilience and hardiness. Right, that's the

442
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: key thing. You're going to love this quote. Stan Beacham

443
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 2: was on my podcast. He's a sports psychologist, and we

444
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 2: were talking about exactly this, and he said to me, Paul,

445
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: most people don't realize that in order to lead their

446
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: best life, you need to take on as much challenge

447
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 2: and responsibility as you can tolerate. And every nine and

448
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: then you need to walk right to the edge of

449
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: yourself and you need to stir into the abyss and

450
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 2: you need to work out what the abyss is telling you,

451
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 2: and you take it on board and you walk back,

452
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: and every nine and then you go right to the

453
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 2: edge of yourself again, and you find that over time

454
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: you have to walk further to reach the edge of yourself.

455
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 2: It's hard.

456
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: I sort of have the same analogy, but with a

457
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: mountain analogy, saying that you're never at the you know,

458
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: you're never on the summit. You know, you might see

459
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: an overhang and you think, right, that's the summit, and

460
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 1: you get up there, and but you're happy there for

461
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: a while and you think, do you know what I'm

462
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 1: done here for now? But then the tempt you know,

463
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: for me, temptations looking up, it is the challenge that's

464
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: what pulls me towards you know, that's for me tempted.

465
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: When people say, what are you tempted by? I'm like

466
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: by a challenge if something is scared the hell out

467
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: of me. But it's a positive response for myself because

468
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: when when I feel fear, you know all that in

469
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: my head, it's like it's my body priming itself to

470
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: step into the unknown. So when I feel fear, my

471
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: body says, get ready, get ready, get ready. You know,

472
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: it's that fight or flight response, right. So, and that's

473
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 1: what I do. I've flipped it. It used to be

474
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: it used to be a o that step off, but

475
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: now it's like fear. I use it as as a positive.

476
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: I use it as a it's a sense of excitement,

477
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: and I just step into the commitment, right and I've

478
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: managed to really work it to my advantage. And that's

479
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: what I say to it. It's about the commitment phase.

480
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: You know, once you commit to your fears, to your phobias,

481
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: and you know then after that it's just a series

482
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: of commitments. It's just a series of voids that you're

483
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: walking into, or a series of ledges of or spot

484
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: heights or or you know, or overhangs that you're climbing

485
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: up towards, but you're never ultimately going to be there.

486
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: And and the thing I would add like, I love

487
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: everything that you said, And it epitomizes what hardiness actually is.

488
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 2: And the last component of hardiness is control orientation that

489
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 2: when you're in that, you focus on what you can

490
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: control and refuse to invest your energy in that which

491
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: you can't control. Right, So, what can I control in

492
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: a fearful situation? I can control my attitude, I can

493
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 2: control my body, I can control my actions. I can't

494
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: control this or that of those other external factors. And

495
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: the issue with a lot of people is they focus

496
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 2: their energy and their attention on shit they can't control.

497
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: You know, They're in their own heads, struggling with their

498
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 2: thoughts and their emotions, wanting their past to be different,

499
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 2: wanting the universe to fucking orient around them, right, wanting

500
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 2: other people to be different. And they're focusing so much

501
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: energy on the shit they can't control, when if they

502
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: just zero in on the stuff they can control. And

503
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: the one thing Victor Frankel called it the last of

504
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: human freedoms he realized in housefits is your ability to

505
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: choose your own attitude, to choose your own way, and

506
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 2: the storics with the seeing that is the one thing

507
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 2: that no one can take from you how you choose

508
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: to react to your circumstances.

509
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I break that down as well, is that

510
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: there's committing to your emotions, to your fears, to your phobias,

511
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: and then there's controlling, which are two completely different things.

512
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: And I think that's what people struggle with the most,

513
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 1: is the We talk about the physical and the psychological,

514
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: which is great, but the emotional because you know, you

515
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: don't know a situation could present an emotion. Someone could

516
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: say something, it could present an emotion. You could do something,

517
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: it could present an emotion. How do you how do

518
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: you manage your emotions and how do you control them?

519
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: The first thing to understand is that our Brian is

520
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: two things. Generates lots of thoughts, right, It's a thought

521
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 2: generating machine. Emotions are non conscious, automatic responses that happen

522
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: in the Brian. They precede thinking and feelings. So a

523
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: lot of people when they talk about emotions, they are

524
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 2: actually talking about their feelings. Right. So we have an

525
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: emotion in our brain and then we try to make

526
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: sense of it, right, and we feel it in our

527
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: body and we have thoughts around it, and we then

528
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: try to interpret or make sense of that emotion. But

529
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: emotions just arise automatically, a lot of them driven by

530
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: your past experiences and stuff like that. Because we could

531
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 2: go down the street, there's a fucking car backfires, nothing

532
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: happens to me, and you jump out of your skin

533
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: because of what you've been through. Right, So this is

534
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: really important to me is understanding that emotions in the

535
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: classic sense are non conscious, automatic processes. What we have

536
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: control over is how we respond, interpret, and apprai as

537
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: those emotions. So one of the techniques, just like you

538
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: talked about earlier on and I always talked to this

539
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,479
Speaker 2: about the athletes or my kids whenever they're stressed, is

540
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: reframing that fear and stress as excitement and your body

541
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: preparing yourself for action. So anybody who's anxious, right, you're

542
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: going to have two people standing at a bungee jump

543
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: or on a roller or on a roller coaster. One

544
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: of them is shitting themselves and the other one is

545
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: completely excited, right, And it's the interpretation of what the

546
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: signals are in their body.

547
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: So as when I said, when I said I feel excitement,

548
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like I fear comes. It's like, right,

549
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: that's a challenge. Get ready, get ready to get ready,

550
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: so you.

551
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: Are, yes, you are reappraising cognitively the emotion and the

552
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: feeling that that's generating. So you can either and this

553
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: is what happens with anxious people. They go, ah, I'm

554
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 2: feeling this in my body and then they they put

555
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: an interpretation on it and they go bad, bad, bad,

556
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: I need to avoid. Whereas what is the number one

557
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: treatment for anxiety exposure therapy? But it's created, right, you

558
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: wouldn't take somebody who's anxious to throw them out of

559
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: fucking clean ten thousand feet right, Well that's.

560
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, you're right.

561
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: So it's it's that it's that exposure created exposure that

562
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: happens like you wouldn't go into the gym first session

563
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: of Jim try and Dale left two hundred kilos. You know,

564
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: it's that progressive overload. But it is about being aware

565
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: of your emotions and reappraising them. So Professor Jeremy Jamison

566
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 2: did very cool research. In the United States, there's this

567
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 2: big exam when you're in university wanting to into grad school.

568
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: It's called the g R and it's a very you know,

569
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 2: you're either in or your act. So it's a high

570
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: stakes exam. So he brought a bunch of students in

571
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: and half of them just left, left them to their

572
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: own devices. The other half, he said, you know what

573
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: anxiety when you feel that, that's actually your body preparing

574
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: yourself for action, and the research shows that it can

575
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: actually increase your perform mormans, right. And that's all he

576
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: told them. And these guys did a lot better on

577
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: the mock exam afterwards, and they did a shitlot better

578
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: on the real exam as well, because they were able

579
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: to reappraise what they were feeling. So I don't talk

580
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: so much about controlling it. I talk about reappraising. It's

581
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: a cognitive reappraisal. Hey I'm not fucking anxious, I'm excited, right,

582
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: And that happens over time, where you're just constantly talking

583
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: to yourself, this is my body preparing itself for action, right.

584
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: And this is when I say to athletes. I used

585
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: to coach karate athletes and they'd be saying two hours before,

586
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: in fact, I'm getting nervous. I'm like, hey, that's your

587
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: body preparing yourself for action. I want you to think

588
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: you're like a cage tiger, right, And you just say

589
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: to yourself, not yet, it's the right response, just not yet. Yeah,

590
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: and you do some breathing controlling in the moment, but

591
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: when you're about to get on that to tammy fucking boom,

592
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: that's when you're unleased.

593
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's exactly what I talk about in my

594
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: book The Fear Bubble. And do you know what I

595
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: love speaking with people like yourself, Paul, because what I

596
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: sort of right from a life experience trial and never is, Wow,

597
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: everything just fits into what you just said in some

598
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: type of way, because I talk about, you know, the exposure, exposure, exposure, repetition, repetition,

599
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: because I look at it like it like like fruit.

600
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: The more you expose it that the more layers you

601
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: take off, and the more layers you take off, the

602
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: closer you're getting to the nut. This is how I

603
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: sort of explain it. You know. So you're never going

604
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: to be you know, you're never going to get to

605
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: the nut. You're never going to fully fully you know,

606
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: understand it. But the closer you yeah, the more layers

607
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: you take off, the more exposure you do and you

608
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: repeat the close process, the closer that you're going to

609
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: get to understanding what that emotion is all about.

610
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the thing I would add to that, right, So,

611
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: and you've just work this shit out right, the stuff

612
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: that all the gigs to study. Right. But the important

613
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 2: thing I think for anybody, you know, if they have

614
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: some fear or anxiety and they do go and expose

615
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: themselves to it, and they're reappraising I'm excited, I'm excited

616
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 2: this and one of the other things this too will pass.

617
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 2: This feeling will pass, right, But a key thing is

618
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 2: that when you've done it is you need to give

619
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: yourself a fucking mental high five, and you need to go, hey,

620
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,479
Speaker 2: woll go me, and you need to savor what you've

621
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 2: just done. Because the research shows that actually, rather than

622
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: just moving on quickly to do your quick Hey I

623
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,959
Speaker 2: was feeling stressed. I got through this, go me, that

624
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 2: five second reappre our reflection actually starts to embed the

625
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: habit in your brain. So it's really important that people

626
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: reappraise and then when they have an achievement, they're like,

627
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 2: fucking yes, I did it, and then reflect on it,

628
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: how did I do that? What skills will I use again?

629
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 2: And that then embeds it into your brain and you

630
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 2: start to develop self efficacy, the belief that I can

631
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 2: be in consul make a difference self advocacy, drive, self

632
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 2: worth and self esteem. Right.

633
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: And it goes back to what we spoke about, you know. Yeah,

634
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: like you said, giving yourself that mental high five? Is

635
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: I am capable?

636
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 2: Actually?

637
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: You know you start to believe in yourself. And it's

638
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: a process, isn't it. It's actually a process that you

639
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: can control.

640
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: Uh, look one hundred percent. And and here's that. You

641
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: know this is an overarching view and you'll have a

642
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: similar one. Right. So the historic philosopher's epic tee that

643
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: said life is a contest. The Olympic Games of life

644
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 2: are upon us. There is no time to waste, right,

645
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 2: and he said we must all undergo a hard winter

646
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: training and not enter into lightly that for which we

647
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: have not prepared. And he was talking about life. Right.

648
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: So I tell my kids who you know I struggle with.

649
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: I bring up my kids in I live in the

650
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: Mornington Peninsula. I know you've been in Australia. I live

651
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: down in my Deliza in the Mornington Peninsula, right, And

652
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: I've always told my kids you brought up in a

653
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: bubble within a bubble within a bubble. And my thing is,

654
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: how do you bring up resilient kids in that, you know,

655
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: and I'll be helping this discussion with my wife and

656
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: she vetoed my first suggestion, which was to put them

657
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: through kiddy version of combat survival and resistance to interrogation

658
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: training sas kids.

659
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: Man, let's do it, let's do it.

660
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 2: Yes. So now interesting say, me and my wife are

661
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 2: creating hardy kids. We're creating a program for schools around

662
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 2: hardiness and all of the stuff that we're talking about

663
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: is in that. But I think people need to understand that.

664
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: And I said what I tell my kids, life is amazing,

665
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: but it will also be fucking hard at times, so

666
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 2: you need to prepare and train for that. Right. You

667
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: can either sit and wait until it comes in be reactive,

668
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: or you can prepare and train yourself out eventuality so

669
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 2: that you then get over the speed bump, which then

670
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: builds your armory for the next speed bump. And it's

671
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: like life is a contest. Embrace the contest, right, yeah,

672
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: embrice it. Embrace the challenge rather than just oh fuck,

673
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 2: here's another one, or war is me victim? Victim? Victim?

674
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: Victim mentality is dangerous mentality. And that's what I say

675
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: to my children, I say, I sort of say life

676
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: is one big game. You know, they challenge play the game.

677
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: Whether you win or lose, guess what you're gonna learn.

678
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: You're gonna grow and you're gonna become a better version

679
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: of yourself. You're gonna realize what you're capable of, and

680
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: then self belief will kick in the back end. So

681
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: the more you play, the more you're going to figure

682
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: out the game. I said, of course you're going to

683
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: lose along the way. You're going to do that till

684
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: you take your last breath. But keep playing because the

685
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: more experienced you get, the more you know how to

686
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: maneuver it and make it work your advantage, i e.

687
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: Your emotions, your mindset, you know, pushing yourself through pain, barriers,

688
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. And I always say to people

689
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: life to a big If I see a challenge in

690
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: front of me, that's a game for me, I'm going

691
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 1: to play that game where whether I win or.

692
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: Lose, Yeah, absolutely, I love it. We cut at the

693
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: same cat and yeah, there's probably a fur chunk of

694
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 2: the military stuff in it. And there's with mine a

695
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 2: heap of stoic philosophy and a lot of people don't

696
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 2: realize the Stoicism. The one who inspired Stoicism was Socrates,

697
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 2: and he was in the Greek military. Right, so there

698
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: are a lot of military overtones that come out of Stoicism,

699
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 2: which is why I think it appeals to so many,

700
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 2: particularly young men. It's not exclusively, but there really is

701
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: something appealing in all of the stuff they said, right, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

702
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: You know, adversity only reveals man to himself, right, yeah, absolutely,

703
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 2: there's so much in it. But I completely concur that

704
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: we all need to think life is a game. It's

705
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: a contest, and every day you need to be up

706
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 2: for the contest. You need to be fully in gee

707
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 2: in the contest and understand that you will get shit

708
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: sandwiches from the universe. We're all going to get them,

709
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 2: and you've got to be prepared to deal with them

710
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 2: by doing a hard winter training.

711
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: How important is it to sleep well, to eat well,

712
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 1: to not overload your mind with shit, technology, etc.

713
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: It is so crucial, And that's the whole second half

714
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 2: of my book. Right. So, I call myself a psychophysiologist,

715
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: which is that combining of psychology and physiology. And you know,

716
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 2: I think anybody who tells you that you can either

717
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 2: optimize your mental health or your cognitive performance just with

718
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: thinking skills is fucking batshit crazy because there is a

719
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 2: two way interaction between psychology and physiology. Right, And all

720
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: of your sales get their fuel from nutrition. Right, And

721
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: you use the analogy that I use as well. Right,

722
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: you wouldn't put what E ten petrol in a fucking

723
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: Formula one car because this thing is revving at super

724
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: high rams and so it has to have the best

725
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 2: fuel it. We have to recover really effectively, right, And

726
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: you know special forces either on duty or you're eating

727
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: or you're sleeping, right, recovery really key. Whereas most corporates

728
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: and most people they don't recover. They relax. Now, having

729
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: your feet up with a bottle of wine or six pack,

730
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 2: watching Netflix is not recovery. It's relaxation, right, And they're

731
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 2: very different gravy and there is a time for relaxing. Right.

732
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 2: But you know, if there's a World Cup of soccer

733
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: or rugby or whatever, and they're having a really hard

734
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 2: game or really quarter a hard quarter finals, let's stick

735
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 2: rugby because it's more brutal, and then they got to

736
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: get up and in three or four days time to

737
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: play a semifinal. Those guys aren't coming back home and

738
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 2: going fuck it, Hell, that was a hard day at

739
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 2: the office. I need a drink. Right, they're coming back.

740
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 2: They're fueling with the best fuel. Right. They're getting mass sizes,

741
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: their heat, their cold therapy, they're doing breath work, they're

742
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 2: doing meditation, they got all the good sleep hygiene, and

743
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 2: they're actually treating their body like a high performance machine.

744
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 2: And this is where there's a big divergence between sport, military,

745
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: and corporations, is that nobody really talks about this in corporations.

746
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: But number one, you can't outrun a bad diet, and

747
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: you cannot perform at your optimal if you're eating a

748
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,919
Speaker 2: shitty diet. It is just physiologically impossible.

749
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: And it goes down to what you put into your

750
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: body and also what you take in mentally as well. Yeah, right,

751
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: because now the temptation of just squat, I'm guilty of it.

752
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: You know you're doing scrolling. Someone goes, oh, I've seen

753
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: this about you, And then and I have to make

754
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: a consertive effort, and I think I've just wasted half

755
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: an hour. They're looking at someone that I can't control,

756
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: and I've fed my fucking mind with shit. So now

757
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, you know, I'm always positive, but you know,

758
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: I'm starting to think in a negative way. How important

759
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,240
Speaker 1: is the power of having a positive mindset? How important

760
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: is that?

761
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: It's hugely important? And we talked all about the challenge orientation.

762
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 2: But the inputs that you're talking about input really critical, right,

763
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 2: are so important. And and there's there's two things that

764
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 2: people are doing really wrong. One is reading too much

765
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: news and negativity, right, negativity negative especially kids. Like when

766
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 2: we were kids, we didn't get the freak and see

767
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: the news right when we were kids because it was

768
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 2: hardly of our own. But now it's a deealable. They

769
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: be words on tiktokts on everything. But the other thing

770
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 2: is the social media, right, And lots of people really

771
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 2: get in trouble psychologically because they're spend a lot of

772
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 2: time on social media. And this is especially with our kids.

773
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: And there's what we call upwards comparison. Now you won't

774
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: suffer from this, right, This is where I looking on

775
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: social media and I'm seeing people who are better than me,

776
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: fitter than me, you know, more successful than me. We

777
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: call this an upwards comparison. But what they don't realize

778
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: is that you're seeing the best little her brush snapshot

779
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 2: of some fucking wanker on Instagram or TikTok, and we're

780
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 2: comparing it to our mundane shit. And that's why people

781
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 2: start to get depressed and they don't realize that a

782
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 2: lot of this stuff is not real. Like a lot

783
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: of young boys are seeing all these guys that are

784
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: all pumped up and don't realize that's shit. He But

785
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: then we're on friggin steroids, right, or it's just not

786
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 2: real yet and we have yes. But the natural bent

787
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 2: of the human brain is a social comparison because if

788
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: we're brought up in the same tribe and we're about

789
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 2: the same age, I'm going to be sizing you up,

790
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 2: and you're going to be sizing me up and going

791
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,919
Speaker 2: how do I fit in against him? Because it's all

792
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 2: about working out where you fit in the tribe and

793
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 2: in the hierarchy. So we have that natural bent that

794
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 2: that's where our brain goes to, and it's been hijacked.

795
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 2: Like when we were kids, we were comparing ourselves to

796
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 2: fifty or one hundred kids around our eage in our

797
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 2: school group. Nah kids are comparing themselves to thousands and

798
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 2: thousands of thousands of people, and it's our brush snapshots,

799
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 2: and that's where we get into trouble. So we gotta

800
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 2: think about the inputs. And this is why I'm such

801
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: a big fan of philosophy. Get off your fucking phone

802
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 2: and go and reach some Stoic philosophy or Buddhist philosophy

803
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: or any kind of philosophy, because the historic said the

804
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 2: philosophy of philosophy is the doctor's office for the mind. Right.

805
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: Well, I love that and I love that.

806
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty cool. I love that. So you gotta

807
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 2: be careful about the inputs.

808
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: And this is why I talk about mindset because I

809
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: always I've got a little quote that I use and

810
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: I say, you know, the state of your life is

811
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 1: a reflection of your state of mind to make it positive.

812
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 1: But I think we've got a negative default. The default

813
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: mindset nowadays is negative because we're just exposed to it,

814
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: and the easy thing to do is to swallow it.

815
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: And this is what I say to people that activity, yes, it.

816
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 2: Does negativity sales right, And this is yes, we are

817
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 2: in the attention economy, right so, and attention is really

818
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 2: important and We live in a world where there are

819
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: attention thieves everywhere social media, news adverts, and negativity sales.

820
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: And they know it that Brian goes more towards negativity

821
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 2: than positivity, so they hook you in around this stuff

822
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 2: and then they've got your attention. We need to be very,

823
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 2: very careful and vigilant with our attention. And in Japanese psychology,

824
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 2: my wife's a practitioner in it, they say that the

825
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 2: most powerful thing that you have in control of your life,

826
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: in your life is the flashlight of your attention, right,

827
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 2: And I love that because whatever you pay attention to,

828
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 2: your brain commits sales to it. So the issue for

829
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 2: a lot of people is that they fly sign the

830
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: flashlight of their attention in their own heads for long

831
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 2: periods of time, struggling with their thoughts and their emotions. Right,

832
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: and that's where the bad shit happens, or your attention

833
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: is on upwards. Comparison with people who are better than

834
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 2: you make you actually feel shit and worthless, and then

835
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: you behave in a way that replicates that.

836
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,479
Speaker 1: Amazing mate, Listen, you've got Your previous book is death

837
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: by Comfort And I always say my expression is there's

838
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: no growth in comfort, so I can I can understand

839
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: the book straight away. And your latest book. Tell me

840
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: about your latest book, mate, and where we can get

841
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: it when it's coming out, et cetera, et cetera.

842
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's called the hardiness effect, and it's everything

843
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: that way and more. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and you know

844
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 2: what they showed, you'll be interested in this. Hardiness actually

845
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 2: predicts who passes and who feels basic military training. Hardiness

846
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: predicts who passes special forces selection. So if we'd have

847
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 2: screened you twenty years ago, you would definitely have come

848
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: up high in hardiness, right, And it also predicts longevity

849
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: and high pressure environments such as military, special forces and

850
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 2: police first responders. But people higher and hardiness who get

851
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 2: better health, better immune systems, they respond better to stress,

852
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 2: they recover quicker from serious illness. And school kids are

853
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 2: iron hardiness are much more likely to go to university

854
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: independent of their socioeconomic status. Right. And you can learn hardiness,

855
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 2: so resilience is more of an outcome. It doesn't tell

856
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 2: you how to get there, where hardiness actually does. And

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00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: that's what my book's all about. The heartiness effect, not

858
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: just psychologe logical hardiness, but the physiological hardiness that we

859
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 2: talked about all the inputs that are coming into your

860
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: body and your mind and how to use all of

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Speaker 2: that to grow from stress, optimize your health, and live longer.

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00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 2: So that's the kind of tagline of the book.

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00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: Love it, but I'll send you a copy.

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00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: I'll send you one.

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00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: Listen from an officer Naval officer to doctor Paul Taylor. Listen.

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00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: Thanks ever so much, mate, I could have chatted for hours.

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00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: This is right up my street. You're a gentleman, and listen.

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Speaker 1: Best of luck with the book.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Matte, absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: On Paul Taylor's book, The Hardiness Effect is out now.

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00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: I'll put the details on how to find it in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Thanks for joining me on this episode

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00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: of head Game. If you enjoyed this episode, please share

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00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: it with a friend. I'm at Middleton. See you again

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00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: next time.