Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM. Earlier
Speaker 1: this year, authorities found something extraordinary inside a Cambodian scam compound,
Speaker 1: a fake Australian Federal Police office. There were Australian flags,
Speaker 1: AFP logos and desk staged to look official, all part
Speaker 1: of a six story compound is by scammers impersonating police
Speaker 1: forces from.
Speaker 2: Around the world.
Speaker 1: It was reminded that the scam messages Australians receiver often
Speaker 1: connected to a far more sophisticated and exploitative criminal industry.
Speaker 1: New figure show Australians reported more than two billion dollars
Speaker 1: in scam losses last year, and a recent ye Wan
Speaker 1: report has detailed how people are trafficked into scam centers,
Speaker 1: held against their will, and forced to target strangers online. Today,
Speaker 1: we're bringing you an episode from last year with Ben Yo.
Speaker 1: In early twenty twenty four, Ben and his wife were
Speaker 1: kidnapped and trapped inside one of those Cambodian scam factories.
Speaker 1: This is the story of how they escaped and why
Speaker 1: so many others can't. It's Sunday, June seven. This episode
Speaker 1: was originally published in March twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Well First of all, thank you again for coming on
Speaker 3: the show and for talking to me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: You're welcome, we'll welcome. Sorry, I'm a bit nervous this morning.
Speaker 3: No, that's okay, It's very understandable. So to begin with,
Speaker 3: had you ever heard about scam compounds before?
Speaker 2: I have heard of these compounds, but I didn't know
Speaker 2: that it was so widespread. But I didn't know there
Speaker 2: was like few hundred thousand people working in the industry there,
Speaker 2: So not until I actually got into one myself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I suppose you would never have thought something
Speaker 3: like this would happen to you.
Speaker 2: Oh, of course never.
Speaker 3: Ben's O'Dell started in early twenty twenty four, shortly after
Speaker 3: he got married. Ben's Malaysian and his new wife is Filipino,
Speaker 3: and they were looking for a change in scenery in
Speaker 3: a third country. Until that point, Ben was a freelance
Speaker 3: business consultant who had worked across Southeast Asia, but after
Speaker 3: that work began to dry up during COVID, he was
Speaker 3: open to something new.
Speaker 2: So what happened was me and my wife we decided
Speaker 2: to go to Cambodia to start our life over there.
Speaker 2: And so my wife, she was a croupiers. She's a
Speaker 2: casino dealer. She does like black jack and poker, and
Speaker 2: she got a friend who introduced her to this job
Speaker 2: posting on a human resource agency. One of the ads
Speaker 2: was croupier and the other says business development. So we
Speaker 2: responded to the ad. They did a first interview, second interview.
Speaker 2: They were quite convincing. They asked all the right questions,
Speaker 2: which a normal hl with us, you know, and they
Speaker 2: talk about our salary and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Then also looked into the company who owned the casino
Speaker 3: and saw they had all the right government approvals and licenses.
Speaker 3: There was nothing to suggest the job wasn't real.
Speaker 2: I felt hopeful at that point, you know, I thought
Speaker 2: we were going to a country which I know, I'm
Speaker 2: familiar with. I speak the language, so you know, I
Speaker 2: was kind of confident. Before leaving for Cambodia, we gave
Speaker 2: up the house, you know, I saw my car. We
Speaker 2: thought that we'll be there for a couple of years, you.
Speaker 3: Know, Okay, And so then what happened next.
Speaker 2: So we got on a plane, we flew down to Cambodia.
Speaker 2: They told us there would be pick up at the airport,
Speaker 2: and when they picked us up, and drove to this
Speaker 2: place called Balvett, which is about three three to four
Speaker 2: hours drive away. It's just right at the Vietnam border.
Speaker 2: So another reason why we felt that the job was
Speaker 2: real was because Balvett is a especial economic zone. Four casinos.
Speaker 2: But when we got to Bavette, they brought us to
Speaker 2: a compound which is behind the casinos. The archers to
Speaker 2: the compound was about two stories high, barbed wired. It
Speaker 2: was heavily guarded, just like a prison, you know. So
Speaker 2: they told us before going in. They told us it
Speaker 2: was just like the staff quarters, you know, And so
Speaker 2: we believed him and we walked in just like that.
Speaker 2: And when the dog closed on us, it brought us
Speaker 2: to our quarters. And from there they told us that
Speaker 2: the job that you applied for it was just a lie.
Speaker 2: You are now in a scam camp. And if he
Speaker 2: wanted to go home and we want to leave, we
Speaker 2: have to pay them to the tune of ten thousand
Speaker 2: US dollars.
Speaker 3: That must have been a very frightening moment for you
Speaker 3: and for your wife that you couldn't leave the compound.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was quite it was quite shocking, and you know,
Speaker 2: we couldn't sleep for about treaties. I think we tried
Speaker 2: to take all of it in. You know, watch how
Speaker 2: other people behave.
Speaker 3: Were other people also tricked like you.
Speaker 2: I think half of them at least were scamming to
Speaker 2: the compound, but most of them was from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal.
Speaker 2: Some of them applied as a nurse, some of them
Speaker 2: applied as teachers, I think engineers, it workers. Most of
Speaker 2: them didn't have a choice. They most of them are
Speaker 2: stuck there, you.
Speaker 3: Know, they were stuck inside a self contained city. It
Speaker 3: even had its own grocery store. The compound had around
Speaker 3: two hundred bungalows, which each housed about fifty people. And
Speaker 3: it's from these compounds that workers are forced to run
Speaker 3: cyber scams on grueling shifts with tough targets. Each compound
Speaker 3: specialized in a different scam. For example, there are entire
Speaker 3: compounds dedicated to scamming Australians using love fraud. But Ben
Speaker 3: says he and his wife found themselves in a compound
Speaker 3: targeting people in India with a credit card scam, and
Speaker 3: that some local police were in on the scam.
Speaker 2: So they were called the Indian people do a spam
Speaker 2: call and informed the victim that he has outstanding balance
Speaker 2: with his credit card. So from credit card department, they
Speaker 2: were passed to the police and the police were frightening them,
Speaker 2: saying that you know their their bank account has been
Speaker 2: linked to drugs or murders and things like that, and
Speaker 2: that's how they know pray on the week.
Speaker 3: At first, because of his language skills, Ben was asked
Speaker 3: to teach the other workers English, but he says after
Speaker 3: two weeks it was his turn to pick up the
Speaker 3: phone and start scamming. But Ben refused to cooperate, and
Speaker 3: that's when the guards turned violent.
Speaker 2: They isolated us, me and my wife. They finally brought
Speaker 2: me into a room which especially made prison, so they
Speaker 2: cuffed me to the floor. They handcuffed me to the
Speaker 2: floor so I couldn't stand. Of course, they didn't give
Speaker 2: me water and food. It was really it was really
Speaker 2: challenging at the time because I'm worried for my wife.
Speaker 2: You know, I was handcuffed. There were so many guards.
Speaker 3: And what were they saying to you about what they
Speaker 3: wanted you to do to make that end.
Speaker 2: They wanted me to pay twenty thousand US dollars for
Speaker 2: them to release me and my wife. All I could
Speaker 2: do was pray, you know, in the darkest hours. I
Speaker 2: think that's where you know, I found God.
Speaker 1: Coming up. How Benley's wife skyped.
Speaker 3: Ben, you were held in isolation for ten days because
Speaker 3: you refused to do any scams. You were essentially held
Speaker 3: to ransom. How did you actually manage to get out?
Speaker 2: We managed to hike a full so that we would
Speaker 2: be able to give my parents the location of the
Speaker 2: police and you know what to tell the embassy on
Speaker 2: where we are at. So I believe the communication to
Speaker 2: the full between my parents and my wife, and that's
Speaker 2: how he managed to get the police to come.
Speaker 3: But the police coming to the compound was just the beginning.
Speaker 3: The whole ordeal of trying to get home would take
Speaker 3: months Before the compound guards released him to the police.
Speaker 3: They forced him to record a video saying he had
Speaker 3: been well treated, that he hadn't been kidnapped. Once he'd
Speaker 3: done that, he was able to go with them, but
Speaker 3: again at the police station, he was made to sign
Speaker 3: a statement again saying he hadn't been trafficked. Ben says
Speaker 3: a representative from the company was there in the room
Speaker 3: as they demanded he sign.
Speaker 2: I was pretty afraid on that day itself, what did
Speaker 2: you do? Well? We had no choice but to sign
Speaker 2: it and it was from there I tried to get
Speaker 2: some legal support, but it was really expensive and we
Speaker 2: really lost everything going there, so it was quite tough.
Speaker 2: There were so many things going through our minds. Are
Speaker 2: we going to be safe? Even in police custody?
Speaker 3: Ben was right to be afraid. Later that day, a
Speaker 3: car came to pick him and his wife up to
Speaker 3: take them to the bigger provincial police station and hopefully
Speaker 3: one step closer to home. But on their way there,
Speaker 3: the police car broke down, or it seemed to. Ben
Speaker 3: realized something was up and he started recording.
Speaker 2: They faked a car breakdown. They took a car that
Speaker 2: wasn't working and a car broke down halfway. No problem.
Speaker 2: I found that that police station was already compromise and
Speaker 2: I was just a few minutes away to being so
Speaker 2: back to the company.
Speaker 1: Now go to police?
Speaker 2: But what cher? Go to police? Rows?
Speaker 3: Okay? Ben was able to use his phone to call
Speaker 3: for outside help to intervene and put pressure on the police.
Speaker 3: From there, he and his wife Moira spent nearly three
Speaker 3: months living in housing supported by an ango in Cambodia.
Speaker 3: He was constantly questioned by the government and made, he says,
Speaker 3: to feel like a criminal rather than a victim.
Speaker 2: The line of questioning of the police, you know, wasn't
Speaker 2: who were these people? How did they connect you? They
Speaker 2: were basically asking like, okay, so when you were there,
Speaker 2: did you do any transactions? Do you ask money from anyone?
Speaker 2: There was no mention of the perpetrators and you know
Speaker 2: how they look like and things like that.
Speaker 3: Okay, So no interest in pursuing the people who trafficked
Speaker 3: to you and kidnapped you and kept you in the
Speaker 3: compound against your will.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 3: Ben and his wife made it out of Cambodia, but
Speaker 3: the experience left him destitute, with no home to go
Speaker 3: back to. Ben was it first living in a church,
Speaker 3: and he lived in fear.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm worried for my life.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: We get threads sometimes.
Speaker 3: What sort of threats do you get?
Speaker 2: I get very funny calls on my phone. Sometimes I
Speaker 2: have a feeling that someone from the compound is trying
Speaker 2: to reach out to me. Maybe it's just my PTSD,
Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, but but yes, I'm afraid sometimes that
Speaker 2: you know, they will come after me. They have all
Speaker 2: the financial resources to do that.
Speaker 3: It's rare to hear from people. You don't often hear
Speaker 3: from people like you who have been in these compounds.
Speaker 3: Why do you think that is?
Speaker 2: I think the first problem is it's really hard to
Speaker 2: stand up for yourself as a victim over here because
Speaker 2: there were so many stigma that goes around, you know, survivors,
Speaker 2: even my own government and my own police. When I
Speaker 2: got back, you know, they thought that I was a
Speaker 2: scammer and I just needed help to get out. So
Speaker 2: I think there's not many much support. That's why not
Speaker 2: many people would actually be brief enough to come and
Speaker 2: talk about it.
Speaker 3: But it's the testimonies of survivors that have forced governments
Speaker 3: to act. In the last few weeks, seven thousand people
Speaker 3: were rescued from scam factories in Myanmar by Thai authorities.
Speaker 3: A week later, two hundred and fifteen more people were
Speaker 3: freed by Thai and Cambodian police from a town along
Speaker 3: their shared border. What would you want the people in
Speaker 3: Australia who are getting these scam calls? What would you
Speaker 3: want them to know and to understand about the reality
Speaker 3: of what's actually going on? And the people who are
Speaker 3: placing these calls.
Speaker 2: For the Australian people, scam cams are real. The people
Speaker 2: who are calling most likely they are victims as well,
Speaker 2: and they were forced to do their jobs right. But
Speaker 2: for the average Australian citizen, I would suggest to you,
Speaker 2: if there was any call pretending to be a bank
Speaker 2: or a post office, you know, basically anything that requires registration,
Speaker 2: please go to the branch itself and chat before committing
Speaker 2: financially to any of these scams. And don't fall for
Speaker 2: anyone online unless you know them for years.
Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing your story and I'm glad that
Speaker 3: you managed to escape a good luck with everything.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you so much, very much.
Speaker 3: For more of Ben's story plus others, have a Listen
Speaker 3: to Scam Factories, a three part investigation from The Conversation
Speaker 3: Weekly for The Conversation Weekly wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James. Thanks for listening seven am. We'll be
Speaker 1: back tomorrow with an episode on Australia's boomy AI Data center.
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