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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Australians Money Puzzle podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: James Kirby, the world editre at The Australian, and I

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Speaker 1: want to come aboard everybody. Well, we're into the final

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Speaker 1: week of regular podcasts and today I want to open

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Speaker 1: up the show a little. We want to talk about

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Speaker 1: all things investing on the markets. Listed investments, banks, big companies,

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Speaker 1: big industrials. Property trusts, which are folks, if you're interested

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Speaker 1: in property on the listed side have become one of

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Speaker 1: the hottest areas of the year. The property trusts are

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Speaker 1: up about twenty five percent this year on the market,

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Speaker 1: which is quite a strong performance recovery performance. And two

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Speaker 1: of the more interesting stocks of the entire year are

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Speaker 1: the Goodman Group and also Digico, that big float, which

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Speaker 1: both are property trusts. But there are also proxies of

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Speaker 1: course for AI. So now, my colleague, Associate Editor of Business,

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Speaker 1: Eric Johnson's just emerged from the annual CEO survey that

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Speaker 1: we do at The Australian, where you get an exceptional

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Speaker 1: sort of line into dozens of leading CEOs from the

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Speaker 1: top two hundred. He's just been through that and I

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Speaker 1: thought it would be a great idea to have him

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Speaker 1: on the show and talk about what are the key

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Speaker 1: person the key CEOs in Australia and those same people

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Speaker 1: who are presented both the risk and opportunity to us

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Speaker 1: as investors. What are they thinking at the moment, what

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Speaker 1: are they thinking about the year ahead and what does

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Speaker 1: it tell us as investors. Great to have him back

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Speaker 1: on the show. How are you Eric?

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much, James, Really good to be here.

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Speaker 1: Good to have you on. Just in very broad terms,

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Speaker 1: what's the mood? What's the mood with these people considering

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Speaker 1: they've just had a fantastic year if they're listed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, so we spoke to it's approximately seven, just

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Speaker 2: over seventy of Australia's leading CEOs from every corner of

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Speaker 2: the market that you could think of, so from property, manufacturing, mining,

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Speaker 2: to banking, financial services, wealth management, super advisory, you name it,

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Speaker 2: we spoke to them. If you were to sum it

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Speaker 2: up in distill it in just to really pure form,

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Speaker 2: I think the term would be cautious optimism going into

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. So the hardest period that they had,

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Speaker 2: when I say they the companies themselves, so what they

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Speaker 2: were seeing in their own businesses was pretty much the

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Speaker 2: September quarter, coming out of the June quarter, September quarter,

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Speaker 2: and they've sort of come through this period looking ahead

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Speaker 2: and looking into twenty twenty five. And these are the

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Speaker 2: CEOs thinking, okay, look what do we got ahead of

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Speaker 2: its now. Some of them like, for example, like let's

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Speaker 2: start from the very top. Okay, one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: companies in Australia, Comme Weth Bank. Like Matt Common, the

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Speaker 2: CEO of common Wealth Bank. He's saying, so he's again

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Speaker 2: that theme of cautious optimism. He thinks interest rates are

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Speaker 2: going to start falling much quicker than many expect. He

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Speaker 2: hasn't put a specific timing around it, but it's certainly

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Speaker 2: early in the new year. However, what he is seeing,

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Speaker 2: this is Matt Common of Komon Weth Bank years of

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Speaker 2: low growth, high costs, so inflation is really hurting his

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Speaker 2: customer base and that's sort of knocked confidence around. So

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Speaker 2: when we get some of that relief, which is inflation

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Speaker 2: pulling back, which we're starting to signs of, when we

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Speaker 2: get relief in rates, his expectation is that we'll bring

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Speaker 2: back the confidence and therefore people will start borrowing again.

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Speaker 2: So another theme that we're really sort of seeing going

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Speaker 2: into next year is also the idea companies now thinking

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Speaker 2: we've had this inflationary environment. It is hurting our customer base.

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Speaker 2: But they're also thinking about their own business and productivity

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Speaker 2: measures for productivity, how can they how can they grow

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Speaker 2: their business?

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Speaker 1: They're very weak by historical and international standards.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so with that, they're thinking about the tools and

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Speaker 2: the leavers that they can play, how they can play

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Speaker 2: a role. So we have seen some quite large wage

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Speaker 2: rises in recent years, so they're looking to capture that.

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Speaker 2: And that's not and by all means, this is no

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Speaker 2: one's saying we're going to whole cell cut costs or

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Speaker 2: anything like that. Everyone's talking about investing and people are

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Speaker 2: companies are talking about investing in the tools, particularly technology,

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Speaker 2: to allow their workforce to achieve more from what they

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Speaker 2: have today.

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Speaker 1: And is an AI theme, Yeah very much.

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Speaker 2: And that is and everyone's talking about AI. Is you

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Speaker 2: know this thing? But now it's what we're looking at

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Speaker 2: this year is the rubber hitting the road on AI.

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Speaker 1: The conversion of the promise. If it converts from promise.

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Speaker 2: That's right, So how is it going to start impacting

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Speaker 2: into my own business? So Australian Super. So that's just

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Speaker 2: that's the nation's biggest super fund. Probably many of your

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Speaker 2: listeners are members as well, just by default. The boss

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Speaker 2: of Australian Super Paul Schroder, saying he believes that AI

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Speaker 2: has some real productivity potential for the Australian economy. So

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Speaker 2: the idea of automating processes this is like menial tasks

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Speaker 2: that are happening back officers. This unleashes people to do

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Speaker 2: igh and value work, personalization of products and services and

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Speaker 2: streamline compliance. All that's going to deliver productivity gains.

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Speaker 1: So there's two big themes there then, one being the

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Speaker 1: if you like, the revival perhaps of the economy to

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Speaker 1: some extent, and the revival of financing of the economy

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Speaker 1: and lending to the economy by the major financials. And

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Speaker 1: then also this idea about productivity. And most investors don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily care about productivity, it's not something they obsessed about,

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Speaker 1: but the CEOs that run the listed companies certainly do

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Speaker 1: because because basically you have to get more value for

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Speaker 1: the wages that you pay. So I'm just thinking just

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Speaker 1: going back on looking at these two areas then, as

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Speaker 1: from a listed perspective. From an investor perspective, we think

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Speaker 1: about the banks. So they mentioned Matt at the Combank

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Speaker 1: looking out over at this economy which is somewhat subdued,

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Speaker 1: though even there as very low unemployment rates. His own

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Speaker 1: bank then is flying right. It's fifty percent over priced

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Speaker 1: according to the consensus targets in the market. It's running

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Speaker 1: at about one hundred and fifty dollars. The brokers are

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Speaker 1: saying it's worth about one hundred. This stock itself surprised

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Speaker 1: everybody because not so much that the Australian economy smashed

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Speaker 1: it out of the park. But it wasn't as bad

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Speaker 1: as they thought, so the bank was able to write

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Speaker 1: back some of the provisioning and that underpin the better

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Speaker 1: earnings and people expected for the big banks. Just ticking

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Speaker 1: out that layer, Eric, if we could just talk about

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Speaker 1: bank stocks for a moment. We have Combank, which is

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Speaker 1: sort of the King Kong of the bank sector and

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Speaker 1: would seem to be the most overpriced according to the analysts.

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Speaker 1: And then there are three other banks making up the

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Speaker 1: Big four, and a new broom growing through those banks,

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Speaker 1: new CEOs coming in at Day and Z of course,

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Speaker 1: and a Z and Westpac, And so what do you

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Speaker 1: think the outlook for bank stocks might be coming off

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Speaker 1: what the CEOs are saying. It would be very hard

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Speaker 1: for them to do that all over again next year.

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Speaker 1: You'd imagine, I mean, o the stocks, i'd regardless of

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Speaker 1: their performance on the street, if you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: And CBA, as you pointed out, is a really interesting case,

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Speaker 2: and that was just flying. It's been one of the

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Speaker 2: hottest stocks in the world. But that in itself means

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Speaker 2: that CBA is also one of the most expensive bank

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Speaker 2: stocks in the world. There are no stock market analysts

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Speaker 2: and has a buy recommendation on CBA, not because I

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Speaker 2: think it's a it's not because I think it's a

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Speaker 2: bad business. They just say it's too expensive. It's way

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Speaker 2: too expensive for the share price, is too expensive for

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Speaker 2: the earnings to support what it is. However, they have

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Speaker 2: been wrong the entire way up for CBA.

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Speaker 1: They've been wrong. They've been wrong from one hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: to one hundred and fifty.

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Speaker 2: That's right, So they've been wrong at one hundred and ten.

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Speaker 2: There are wrong at one hundred and twenty and so on.

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Speaker 2: So there's soul surgeon going on in analysts look with CBA,

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Speaker 2: there is a bit of crowding out. CBA is a

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Speaker 2: play on Australia. It's safe, it's a safe investment because

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Speaker 2: just the shiit size of it. It represents almost like

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Speaker 2: twenty percent of the economy in terms of mortgages and

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Speaker 2: business loans and so on. And you've seen a lot

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Speaker 2: of index funds also so back CBA, but also just

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Speaker 2: a lot of passive money just sitting in CBA. So

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Speaker 2: the real action going into twenty twenty five is going

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Speaker 2: to be in the non CBA banks. And as you

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Speaker 2: pointed out, so we've got each of these banks have

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Speaker 2: got new CEOs, So Westpac, NAB and aan z Ainz's

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Speaker 2: new CEO, Shane Elliott, will step down in July, so

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Speaker 2: it's a little bit further down the track.

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Speaker 1: The change of the guard are then at the big banks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, two of those appointments at west Pac and NAB

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Speaker 2: they're virtually internal. Virtually they are internal appointments. So the strategy,

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Speaker 2: all things being equal, when you look as an investor,

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Speaker 2: you know what you're getting that the strategy is going

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Speaker 2: to be the same. Maybe some tweaks here and there,

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Speaker 2: but you're not going to see any shifts, any changes.

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Speaker 2: Westpac is an interesting story because it's been It's Anthony

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Speaker 2: Miller started this week as new CEO, and it's been

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Speaker 2: really through this period of introspection since it had its

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Speaker 2: ods Track scandal leading into the COVID pandemic. So it's

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Speaker 2: been sort of thrown off its balanced for those years,

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Speaker 2: totally internally focused, competitive where it can, but it's coming

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Speaker 2: out of the other side of that. It's winning over regulators,

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Speaker 2: which means there's a potential for it to. It's been

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Speaker 2: operating under a capital penalty so that that potentially comes off,

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Speaker 2: so it might get a little bit of a bump there.

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Speaker 2: So there's more potential in a company like Westpac. Then

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Speaker 2: you see, I can get the settings right because it

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Speaker 2: hasn't had that surge up the Combank has. It's not

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Speaker 2: going to be another combank that's just been a remarkable run.

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Speaker 2: Combank is like that because it's also well run. It's

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Speaker 2: highly efficient, it's well run. You know what you're getting,

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Speaker 2: and it's predictable.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I just what do I do? Might hold it

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Speaker 1: right there? We take a short break and we'll come

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Speaker 1: back and we'll take a look at outside the banking sector.

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Speaker 1: But listeners, I'm sure that was useful to you on

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Speaker 1: the four banks. So interestingly, internal appointments being being particularly

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Speaker 1: popular with these banks because they are conservative and investors

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Speaker 1: like certainty. And there is, if you like, the role

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Speaker 1: model of that common who was taken internally some years

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Speaker 1: ago at a time when it was a very debatable

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Speaker 1: thing to do, because Combank, from a reputation point of view,

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Speaker 1: very low at a very low eb around the time

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Speaker 1: of the Heyin Rold commission, and his chair quite bravely

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Speaker 1: stuck with an internal appointment. So this is why the

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Speaker 1: banks do that. Now. The only issue, as Eric is saying,

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Speaker 1: is that there's nothing wrong with our banks. They're perfectly fine,

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Speaker 1: and their numbers are perfectly fine. Their problem is that

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Speaker 1: they've been so enthusiastically bought up by investors that it's

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Speaker 1: going to be very hard to justify the price levels

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Speaker 1: there at all. Right, we'll be back in a moment

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Speaker 1: and we're going to take a look at outside the banks.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a look who's who in among

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Speaker 1: the big miners and some of the bigger industries. Back

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Speaker 1: in the moment, Hello, and welcome back to the Australian's

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Speaker 1: Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby, Wealth editor at The

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Speaker 1: Australia talking to a colleague from The Australian, Eric Johnson,

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Speaker 1: Associate Business Editor. He has been running the knobs and

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Speaker 1: talking to many dozens of the top CEOs in the

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Speaker 1: country and I thought would be really good idea to

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Speaker 1: take a look at who they are and what difference

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Speaker 1: they make at stocks. I suppose are we talked about

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Speaker 1: the banks there, that's an area of the market where

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Speaker 1: the personality of the CEO is least important. By that,

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Speaker 1: I mean a good blue chip company. The theory is

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Speaker 1: that the boss should be able to be run over

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Speaker 1: by a bus and the share price shouldn't be affected.

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Speaker 1: I mean that was traditionally inside big blue chip companies,

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Speaker 1: the sort of brutal concept. But the idea was obviously

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Speaker 1: that the company was more than a single person. Now

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Speaker 1: that's less so as you move away from banks and

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Speaker 1: you go to other parts of the economy, even the

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Speaker 1: big miners. Now the big two, the very big two

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Speaker 1: obviously being Rio and BHP art to that extent, the

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Speaker 1: blue chip in that manner as well. And though we're

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Speaker 1: all very fond of the CEOs and we like them.

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Speaker 1: They could be run over by a bus and they

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Speaker 1: would be replaced, and you would hope that the share

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Speaker 1: price wouldn't go off the rails. Now that wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: the case necessarily a fortescue where forest is still very important,

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Speaker 1: or minrais for Chris Ellison is very important. This was

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Speaker 1: very important. I tell us what the big mining CEOs

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Speaker 1: have been, what their view has been or energy and

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Speaker 1: resources in that area? Is the view cautiously optimistic? I

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Speaker 1: would expect that they might be hoping for a better

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Speaker 1: year because they were the weakest part of the market

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Speaker 1: last year in terms of the overall return of stocks.

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Speaker 1: We had terrific year on banks, consumer discretionary, marvelous year

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Speaker 1: for it though it's a relatively small part of the

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Speaker 1: market in terms of market cap. But when you look

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Speaker 1: at the energy and materials it was quite weak. I

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Speaker 1: mean energy was substantially down by about twenty percent, which

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Speaker 1: were certainly not used to at all. But they had

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Speaker 1: a very weak They had a very weak year, and

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Speaker 1: materials weren't much better minus thirteen percent. This is a market,

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Speaker 1: by the way, folks that went up eating so keep

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Speaker 1: that in mind. So is there an elevated optimism from

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Speaker 1: the mining and resource energy people compared to the rest

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Speaker 1: of the market. Have you any sense of that.

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Speaker 2: Oh, look, when we started off talking about the term

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Speaker 2: cautious and with the miners, the emphasis, if you want

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Speaker 2: to draw a line, is probably more on the cautious

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Speaker 2: part of that phrase, particularly with those two big material stocks.

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Speaker 2: So it's BHP and RIO, they're pretty much like for like,

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Speaker 2: except Rio has the aluminum play and that's a big differentiator.

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Speaker 2: BHP is probably more exposed to copper. In coming years,

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Speaker 2: it's going to have it's going to have potash. That's

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Speaker 2: a fertilizer play, which RIO doesn't have, which would be

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Speaker 2: an interesting one. How that changes going into this year.

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Speaker 2: And often it's funny when you speak to the CEOs

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Speaker 2: of these companies and they're thinking so long term, they're

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Speaker 2: not even thinking about You ask them, wow, what do

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Speaker 2: you think about the outlook? How's the coming year? And

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Speaker 2: they think what they are think.

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Speaker 1: They're thinking about minds. They're going to build an eye

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Speaker 1: of time ten.

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Speaker 2: Or fifteen years time. They're thinking kilometers ahead, but where

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Speaker 2: it is. But the theme is obviously China is the

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Speaker 2: driver of that, and China there is no doubt it's

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Speaker 2: not troubled, but it's certainly slowed. It's aiming for about

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Speaker 2: five percent growth this year. Whether it's sort of whether

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Speaker 2: it sort of hits that remains to be seen. But look,

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Speaker 2: activity is coming off in China, in particularly in the

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Speaker 2: consumer sector, and you can see the authorities they're trying

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Speaker 2: to pull some different levers. Nothing's really going to start

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Speaker 2: to happen until there's going to there's a change of

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Speaker 2: president in the US, So Trump comes in China starts

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Speaker 2: seeing what the landscape is, so it'll be a bit

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Speaker 2: premature for China to move before that. Then the other thing,

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Speaker 2: to the other factor which really complicates things is this

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Speaker 2: idea of Trump putting tariffs in and then there's retaliation.

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Speaker 2: That trigger is a trade war. That trigger is a

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Speaker 2: slow down in activity in the global global world. So

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Speaker 2: again that may mean that players like b HPN, rio

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Speaker 2: sound sell less copper, sell less iron or But you

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Speaker 2: don't buy these You don't buy these stocks for what

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Speaker 2: they're going to do in twelve months time. You buy

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Speaker 2: these stocks for what they're doing in five years time.

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Speaker 2: So if you speak to them, what are they thinking about,

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Speaker 2: what are they really thinking about? It's copper. It all

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Speaker 2: comes down to copper, and they just see this huge right,

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Speaker 2: they just see a huge deficiting copper from the end

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Speaker 2: of this decade and the world not having enough accessible

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Speaker 2: copper supplies, and that's where they're trying to get onto. Okay,

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Speaker 2: your listeners are very big fans of gold. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: you've got a lot of gold. Yeah, well, look Northern Northern,

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Speaker 2: Northern Star Stuart Tonkin of Northern Stars Resources a gold

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Speaker 2: This is kind of interesting, so let's talk gold. He said,

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Speaker 2: we saw a bit of a pullback in the gold

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Speaker 2: price shortly after the US election, which was right. However,

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Speaker 2: he doesn't see that lasting for long over time. He

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Speaker 2: says Trump presidency likely leader trade tensions and increased US

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Speaker 2: government spending, which is likely to support a strong gold

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Speaker 2: price in both US store and Aussie dollar currency. So

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Speaker 2: he's trying to equate gold with bitcoin. So he's saying

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Speaker 2: that he reckons an ounce of goal will be worth

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Speaker 2: at least zero point one bitcoin in coming years. So

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure what that equation is, but I want

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Speaker 2: to watch.

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Speaker 1: I think your gold CEOs will always be of the

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Speaker 1: opinion that God is going to go up. Everyone Gould

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Speaker 1: says that, but they were. I mean, certainly Northern Star did.

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Speaker 1: It had a very good year, as gold did. Then

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Speaker 1: there was some real surprises. There was that amazing story

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Speaker 1: during the year of Resolute and the CEO Toal hadn't

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Speaker 1: been being detained in Wizambique. So you have this surprises,

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Speaker 1: don't you. Even if we take it that the outlook

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Speaker 1: for gold is good, even if we take it that

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Speaker 1: it is the perfect setting for continued rise in the

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Speaker 1: gold price, particularly with the arrival of Trump, where we

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Speaker 1: could safely assume that his second and third year won't

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Speaker 1: be quite as won't be the honeymoon, that maybe his

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Speaker 1: first and second month will be as that any Republican

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Speaker 1: president or any president would face. That. So on that basis,

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Speaker 1: instability arrives. On that basis people refer to gold. But

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Speaker 1: the issue for gold is really it's operational risk, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: With these guys, with these different miners and these different CEOs,

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Speaker 1: that seems to be that the real differentiator for Australian miners.

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Speaker 1: At least I can ask you something about stock's been

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Speaker 1: taken off the market. I really I wasn't joking about Newcrest.

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Speaker 1: I mean if you think about it, until people are

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Speaker 1: kicking themselves. They had this superb opportunity, the biggest gold

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Speaker 1: stock in Australia, and you know, they come in and

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Speaker 1: the Americans basically come in and buy at the perfect time,

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Speaker 1: just as goes about to steam along. Similarly, we have

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Speaker 1: the private equity They just take one private equity player,

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Speaker 1: just one bain. So they come in, they buy Virgin Airlines,

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Speaker 1: then they buy STA and the hcare outfit and this

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Speaker 1: week being the last working week of the year, they

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Speaker 1: snap up Insignia, the old IAF which has all sorts

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Speaker 1: of assets, but it also has things like chad Forth

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Speaker 1: actually the dominant, the biggest player on our top one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty advisors list. Part I'm making Eric is

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Speaker 1: that we're investors. We're looking and we're listening to these

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Speaker 1: CEOs about their outlook, and we're very They're very important

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Speaker 1: because they drive the companies. And then there's them, and

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Speaker 1: then there are private equity operators sitting in New York,

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Speaker 1: and nor do they look at the Australian market and

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Speaker 1: the cherry pick there's no seems to me, there's no

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Speaker 1: particular theme an airline and hecare operator, a wealth Manager,

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Speaker 1: they just and Sydney Airport of course a big loss

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Speaker 1: once upon a time, along with the Newcrest School. These

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Speaker 1: are big absences when the when the market loses them,

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Speaker 1: will we lose more in the in the new year?

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Speaker 1: And how can a private investor, how do they? How

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Speaker 1: do they faces? Are they any sense of what's coming

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Speaker 1: down the line? Will there be more of it? Of

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Speaker 1: the private equity arming if you like, just basically carving

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Speaker 1: useful chunks out of the ax.

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Speaker 2: I think you and when you talk about there's no

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Speaker 2: theme about about which which areas hot or not? But

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Speaker 2: I think that the theme is value and the thing

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Speaker 2: time and time again, your listeners have to remember much

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Speaker 2: most of the value happens when people go in when

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Speaker 2: people are running the other way. And that's the theme

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Speaker 2: that that keeps repeating through time. I remember as a

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Speaker 2: junior journalist going up to Secutor Road, to the old

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Speaker 2: New Crest head headquarters when they announce her results and

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Speaker 2: no one was interested that. And this was when gold

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Speaker 2: was trumbling along and write two hundred dollars an ounce

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Speaker 2: or something like that, and no one had any interest

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Speaker 2: in it. But as an investor in over time, you

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Speaker 2: have to ask is this the way that the world

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Speaker 2: is going to stay forever? And also with companies as well,

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Speaker 2: Ampcor which is still listed, but now it's moved. It's

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Speaker 2: listing to the United States, one of the worlds now

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Speaker 2: one of the world's biggest packaging companies. Again, in the

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Speaker 2: early two thousands, no one wanted to go near this

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Speaker 2: thing because it had a lot of internal troubles and

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Speaker 2: a lot of internal problems. Every broker had a sell

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Speaker 2: recommendation on it. Likewise, you've seen a massive turnaround in

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Speaker 2: a company called ZIPC that's the buy now, pay later company.

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Speaker 2: It's been one of the best performers on the ASEX.

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Speaker 2: And again two years ago, no one wanted to go

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Speaker 2: near these stocks, and rightly so. There were some really

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Speaker 2: unusual business models going on there. But if you can

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Speaker 2: sort out and this is where the private equity often

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Speaker 2: looks for value, if you can sort out what the

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Speaker 2: value is, then your way. And then we're talking about

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Speaker 2: rec respects. So even in airlines, you ask yourself about thematics.

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Speaker 2: Will Australia be a one airline country? Now? Why it's

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Speaker 2: a big economy. We do a lot of travel, do

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Speaker 2: a lot of domestic travel, so that's if you can

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Speaker 2: trade the trough, you can ride the top.

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Speaker 1: Okay, can I ask you one thing about people, and

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Speaker 1: you're talking to CEOs, to what extent do you, as

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Speaker 1: someone who corpors it very closely, to what extent do

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Speaker 1: you believe or take on board how important the key

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Speaker 1: person is. You mentioned a couple of companies there that

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Speaker 1: really came around. You mentioned Acre, which, as you say,

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Speaker 1: was drifting, and then Ken McKenzie came along and he

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Speaker 1: was just amazing and he got fantastic operational numbers out

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Speaker 1: of that company, which transferred to Fantastic ship Press Performance.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned ZIP, which has leaved very much with Larry Diamond.

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Speaker 1: We have other companies on the market, and then in

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Speaker 1: the next apport we're going to talk about the property trust.

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Speaker 1: But how important is the CEO? Is the CEO at

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Speaker 1: the average Australian listed company more or less important than

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Speaker 1: they used to be? How crucial are they on But

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Speaker 1: if someone looks at a company, they can analyze the numbers.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately that's the that's the quant part. The qualitative

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Speaker 1: part is it's run by people. How important is the CEO?

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Speaker 2: I think? And you put it out like the aim

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Speaker 2: of a top company is for the CEO, although it's

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Speaker 2: bad for them if they fall under the bus or

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Speaker 2: the or the Swanston Street tram. That then then the

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Speaker 2: company keeps taking along as though nothing happened. There was

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Speaker 2: a saying, and this is about comm Wealth Bank too.

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Speaker 2: So the thing about com Wealth Bank is it's a

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Speaker 2: big engine. It's a big it's a big train going

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Speaker 2: down the tracks and all you've got to do as

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Speaker 2: a CEO is just keep the oil topped up, an

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Speaker 2: eye on that and he'll just keep going and going.

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Speaker 2: And so that's the thing. So does the CEO have

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Speaker 2: an influence? Well, look, the CEO sets sets the tone

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Speaker 2: and sets the culture. Is responsible for the culture and

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Speaker 2: so is it a high performance culture? Is it a

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Speaker 2: culture that is focused? And they do have a role

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Speaker 2: in doing that to do the people that turn up

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Speaker 2: to the building every day do they know what their

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Speaker 2: job is? And I think that's a really important thing.

431
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 2: And then there's a separate thing to this as well

432
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 2: that we and I know that your listeners would be

433
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 2: really thinking about these. A lot is founder lead companies

434
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 2: and there's quite still quite a few founder lead companies

435
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: with founders involved on the AX and they and they

436
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: certainly are performed, but we always have this disruption when

437
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: it's time for the founder to hand over the reins.

438
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: So even in Fordescue, when we saw Andrew Forrest to

439
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 2: your forest build up Ford Toescue build up magnificently, he

440
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 2: stepped back handed it over to CEOs. It was moving

441
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: for quite a while, and then with sort of succession

442
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 2: of troubles and Andrew Forrest jumping in and trying to

443
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 2: manage it as well. So it's still his company. And

444
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 2: then obviously the min res when there is issues, like

445
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 2: the CEO still drives it as a very entrepreneurial company.

446
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 2: But then sometimes when companies get big, they need different

447
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 2: skill sets, they need managers that can manage, they can

448
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 2: need predictability. We spoke about these big mining companies. These

449
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 2: CEOs are thinking years out, so they're not thinking about today.

450
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: So really interesting one to watch founder led companies. There's

451
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 2: two of just to point out to your listeners, both

452
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: Melbourne based companies. One pro Medicus based in Richmond. The

453
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: biggest company you've never heard of in Australia, which it's.

454
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 1: Probably favored by institutions.

455
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 2: I think it's now to about fifteen or sixteen billion

456
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: dollars in terms of market cap. It shares it just gone.

457
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: It sells imaging software, which sounds pretty pretty dull, but

458
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 2: just ruthlessly targets high end health networks in the United

459
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: States and radiology imaging software that it develops.

460
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 1: And there's no CEO. There's a CEO obviously there that

461
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: is Integrant, and.

462
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: There's a CEO. One is a is a commercial director.

463
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: The other one is interesting to watch is ARB. You

464
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: would have I know that when you drive around the

465
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: streets are brighton with your with your Toyota high Likes.

466
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: I have never been in. I've never been in a

467
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: high Lox, but I have a spin in one. But anyway, yes,

468
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: I know what they are. I know what a r

469
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 1: BR I get your jok.

470
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: Yes, so they supply all the accessories for full drives

471
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: and newts like the one that you have when you

472
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: drive around the streets are.

473
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: Brighton stock great Stock. Deny it for a moment.

474
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: This was started in in a garage in Melbourne's eastern suburbs,

475
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 2: I think in Ringwood, and now it's sort of you know,

476
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 2: sells it's it's products around the world. Still operates in

477
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: kill Sithe for all of Melbourne's East and it has

478
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: managed to do the succession quite smarisly too in recent years.

479
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: So just so it can happen m M.

480
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: Okay, So a r B is not led by the

481
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: it's not led by the original person that that built

482
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: them anymore.

483
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: Nope, I see they are on the board. They are

484
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: still involved in the board and obviously it's shareholded.

485
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: Okay, very good. Look, we're going to take you short break, folks,

486
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: and we're going to come back and look at the

487
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: property scene and Property Trust in particular, and some pretty

488
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: big personalities there. I can tell you that that are integral.

489
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: Would almost underestimate how important they are to the wider stuff.

490
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Back in the moment. Hello, welcome back to the Australian's

491
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: Money Puzzle. I'm James Kirby talking to Eric Johnson. Hey, Eric,

492
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: two stocks have been just aching to ask you about.

493
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: One is Goodman, the amazing Goodman Group and Greg Goodman,

494
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: who has personified this company. And it would seem though

495
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: no company is run by one person, but they certainly

496
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: can be led by one person, and he has led

497
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: Goodman through thick and thin and early in the game

498
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: rebranded this Property Trust as a logistics player and a

499
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: player that was able to harness, if you like, or

500
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: exploit the move to online that it was an advantage

501
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: rather than a disadvantage. And that's of course, it's just

502
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: been one of the best stocks in the market. It's

503
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: also a stoffwhare that is so closely identified with the leader.

504
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: I mean, we have Jerry Harvey at Harvey Norman with

505
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: Greg Goodman at Goodman Group. Is that a situation where

506
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: the CEO is almost too important for the company.

507
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: It is, and you would hope that he builds a

508
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: structure around him, so every say, I should be thinking

509
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: about it their exit from day from day one, how

510
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: to build that structure around them so he can hand

511
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: it over and by seeing his company through good and

512
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: good and bad. And it was really knocked around during

513
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: the GFC Goodman Group. It had too much it was

514
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 2: holding too much debt as a property trust and that

515
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: really changed the direction that Greg Goodman took on that

516
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: company on the journey he and now it has this

517
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 2: incredible moat around it in terms of the infrastructure that

518
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: it builds, the warehousing and they just developed these big

519
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 2: warehouses and they're very hard to replicate and they.

520
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: Had to have the Warren Buffett Molt the of the infrastructure,

521
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: their own infrastructure.

522
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: And they're not just tin sheds out in the paddic.

523
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: These are like because there's power. There's also there's also

524
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: automation inside them as well that Goodman provides. So from

525
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: a company X, I can just turn up and there's

526
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: my warehouse and it's got all the automation ord ready

527
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: to go, and Goodman manages all this and it's really

528
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 2: really out there. They're a really important company transition. I

529
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: think so because the business model is predictable now, so

530
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: he's not out there making the deals. He's certainly crunching

531
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: the numbers, but it doesn't trade on his name on

532
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 2: He doesn't need to open doors anymore because the model

533
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: has proven, the model is established, and I think that's

534
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: a difference. There's always an entrepreneurial streak with founder CEOs

535
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: and they use that to open doors necessarily because that's

536
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: what they've been doing all their life, trying to open doors.

537
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: I think that's a difference now with Goodman.

538
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: Okay, it's become institutionalized in the best sense of the word.

539
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: I want to look to questions because the first question

540
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: I want to pick out is smack on a most

541
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: delightful segue into the questions. This week, it's from George. George,

542
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure and this is never advice, it's only information

543
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: and observation. But you might be relieved rather than nooid.

544
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: Now anyway, George is an original piece of corresponding which

545
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: is probably oh ten days old. Lets it's about Digiico,

546
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: which was the biggest float of the year folks, as

547
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: you'll probably know, and that was a property trust Digico.

548
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: So here's George's question. I'm extremely annoyed, to say the least,

549
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: the country's biggest bank has deliberately chosen to shaft retail

550
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: investors in favor of the big end of town. And

551
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: he mentions comsec here, we're appointed joint lead co managers

552
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: of the upcoming Digito IPO tip to be the biggest

553
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: float on the AX for years, And indeed that is true, George.

554
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: The only problem was, of course, it floated. We're talking

555
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: on Tuesday. It floated last Friday, great expectations. I think

556
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: it was midday. I actually remember I tuned in at Miday,

557
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: Justice se because it was coming on of five dollars

558
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: and guess what it went nowhere. So anyway, in Georgie's case,

559
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: he says, being a client, I thought I could access

560
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: the float, but I was told retail clients like myself

561
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: missed out because the broker allocation was all farmed out

562
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: to sophisticated investors maybe concept, consect and advice. How many

563
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: of those sophistications investors took up only the prospectus minimum

564
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: application of two thousand borth of shares and amount set

565
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: sufficiently low that it was obviously aimed at retail investors. Okay,

566
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: two things here. One nine times out of ten, the

567
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: Georges of this world are correct. You would be furious

568
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: when you want to be in an ipo, you know

569
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: it's coming down the line, you think it looks good,

570
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: and you don't get stuck. Now, I'm sure, comes secor

571
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: Anni Broke, we'll have an explanation for why one person

572
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: didn't get stuck. And there is a procedure in how

573
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: you lay out these IPOs. But what's particularly interesting with

574
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: George's question is that on this occasion, it would seem

575
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: so far he would have been better off that he

576
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: didn't get the stop, because he would have been a

577
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: loss straight away. And in fact, that the Digico is

578
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: still below its IPO price, which was five bucks. I

579
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: think it is still below.

580
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: Eric for fifty.

581
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, four fifty. Well, that's I'm disappointing, isn't it. What

582
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: does that tell us about property to us? And in

583
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: this case it had the CEO figure. The person behind

584
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: the float certainly was a man called David de Pillow,

585
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: who has had great success so far. But this has

586
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: not been a great success in its initial phase of

587
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: the float. And who knows, this time next year we

588
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: may be sitting here saying, well it was even better

589
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: by at four fifty, but we don't know. What we

590
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: do know is that it was a failure. The biggest

591
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: float of the year appears to be a failure. What's

592
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: that tell us about the market and the whole enterprise

593
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: of Digiko?

594
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think this is more stock specific. And

595
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: although George points out about the sophisticated investors, it was

596
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: interesting with this one. It wasn't sold to institutional investors.

597
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: So in a perfect world, when you take a company

598
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: to market, you want big institutional investors, a mix of

599
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 2: big institutional investors as well as retail shareholders. So and

600
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: this one didn't for whatever reason, it didn't seem to

601
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: be marketed among the big institutions, so there's the big

602
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: fund managers. So it was became a real retail stock.

603
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 2: And it's the institutions can are the ones that can

604
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: sort of shift the dial in terms of support. Digit

605
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: Co was is looking at trying to capitalize on the

606
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 2: booming data centers that is around at the moment. This

607
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: is we have heard about mcquarie by selling its air

608
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 2: trunk business, you know for incredible.

609
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: Next DC of course always been mentioned on the show here, yeah, yeah, yep.

610
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: So so you know there's a real there's a real

611
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: thing going on and all the data that we're demanding

612
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: in AI is going to pull into it. Not all

613
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 2: data centers are the like. Not all data centers of

614
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: the same summer commodities, and we spoke about Goodman. Goodman

615
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: are and obviously in data centers as well, but they

616
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: provide all the power and all the infrastructure around it

617
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: as well. So so Digico with with that. So it's

618
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: interesting what the real business is underneath. Look, who knows.

619
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 2: I think for your listeners, they've got to do their

620
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 2: homework and saying and really get into the into the

621
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: depths of it. And saying what are the contracts?

622
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: Like this was a rapid rule up basically of corect

623
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: center assets, wasn't it? And to some extent it came

624
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: to the market quickly, and I think without doubt it

625
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: was timed to get in before the end of the year.

626
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: It was literally the last what are the last rocking.

627
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: Days that in terms of like analyzing it, you look

628
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 2: at who are there, who is Digitico's customers, when are

629
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 2: their contracts renewing? What it will there be a step

630
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: up in contract or you know, let's say they do

631
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, let's say they do have a contract

632
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: with Microsoft. Will it just roll over in five years time?

633
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: Or will Microsoft go to the next person? What's their

634
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: point of friends from the likes of good Men or

635
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 2: Amazon also find the same thing or even next day. See,

636
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: so that's what That's what I'm work.

637
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: You have to do instantly, Okay, okay, terrific And I

638
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: suppose look, one of the lessons here, folks is and

639
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: we always say it on the show that there's a

640
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: difference between investing and speculating, and there's an invest and

641
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: there's a difference between investing in trading or betting and

642
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 1: to some extent in IPO, and I'm not talking about

643
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: Digito and in particular im talking about any Ipo IPO.

644
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: With Blue Sky Ipo, there is there is no trading

645
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: history because it hasn't been a stock and it's a different,

646
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: very different world when you enter into the public space.

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00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: And some entrepreneurs and CEOs that we've talked about the

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00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: importance of CEOs to do. Some CEOs are terrific as

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00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 1: long as the company is private and they are smart

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00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: enough to know that they shouldn't actually ever go public.

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00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: And sometimes you question why people go public if they

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00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: if they've been perfectly happy for many years. Sometimes it's

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00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: a way to get cash out. Sometimes it's a way

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00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: to let other people in the business get some skin

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00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: in the game, which is probably the healthiest way you see.

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00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's just an opportunity for people to say, look, ah,

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00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: from here on, you know, I want to maximize what's

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00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: left of my time in the business and what I've

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00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: built up. And it's a way for them to have

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00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: what the brokers I like to call a liquidity event,

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00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: which is a lovely word which really means everyone gets

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00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: PiZZ of money liquidity event. But the liquidity event didn't

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00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: really happen at the Digitco, but maybe it will. Hopefully

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00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: it isn't a sign that the cautious optimism for the

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00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,479
Speaker 1: year ahead is too enthusiastic and not sufficiently cautious. We'll

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00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: find out. We'll find out in the months ahead. For

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00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: the moment. Thank you very much, Eric Johnson for coming

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Speaker 1: on the show. Great to have you on.

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Speaker 2: Thanks James, great to be here.

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Speaker 1: Great to have Eric on. Eric. As you know is

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00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: it talks to the top people all the time and

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00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: it's very important to know what they are thinking because

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00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: they are running big stocks.

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Speaker 2: Before you go, we'll just encourage you all listeners. It's

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00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 2: all online on the Australian dot com some of their

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00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 2: responses for this CEO survey, So if you have a

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00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 2: specific company you're interested, you can click right through and

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00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 2: find their responses.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you want to know what the CEO

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00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: has to say? Okay, very good, all right, and the

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00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: emails please the money puzzle at the Australian dot Com

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Speaker 1: dot AU. Today's show was produced by Lea Samog