WEBVTT - #1970 Understanding Self-Sabotage - Shirzad Chamine 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:03.400 Oh, get a team. It's the you project. We've got 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:05.840 a new friend to come and play. I'm super bloody excited. 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:08.360 But before we talk to him, old Tiff, you know, 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:10.840 when I gave Shazzad the briefing, I probably should have 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:12.160 mentioned that I swear a bit. 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:12.640 Ye? 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:18.720 Should I tone that down for him? Long it all 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.040 last though, absolutely? You know it would have been funny 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:27.480 if he said, fuck, no, don't do that, Tiff. How 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:27.840 are you? 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.720 I'm cold? I'm so cold that the motorbike wouldn't start 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:32.880 this morning, which is annoying. 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:36.920 Well, zero degrees in Melbourne this morning. Everyone thinks Australia's 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.640 this big land of fucking sunny beaches and warm weather. 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:45.320 And it's zero this morning, which is about I think Shazad, 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.400 welcome to the show. I think that's about thirty degrees 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.800 in your language. But zero celsius over here this morning, 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:57.639 so it's a cold one. How are you? I am? 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.960 Well? Well? San Francisco also has a game called Summers 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.160 for us, so I can I can relate. 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.160 What's the temperature? Make us a little bit jealous? What's 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:10.399 the temperature over there today give or take. 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.880 Well, we are on fahrenheit, so it's eighty degrees fahrenheit. 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.920 I'm guessing that's a balmy thirty two degrees or something, 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:19.360 but that's a rough gas. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.679 Yeah, listening over there suffering TIF. That's terrible, isn't it? 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:25.560 So? 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.039 Hi, welcome to the show. How are you. How's your 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:28.479 day been? 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.240 Has been fantastic as yours been? 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.880 Yeah, it's been good so far. Just some early morning 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.800 caffeine and Tips. Had a tough one and motorbike wouldn't 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:40.440 start water tip with all. 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.720 The days, I've got to move it by tomorrow morning 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:47.640 because our back car parks getting repaid reserves. If my 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.520 box sitting there, I'm going to get a big fine. 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.760 Well, you've got to get rid of it. So we 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.200 did discuss how you can get at mobile, so we'll 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.640 talk about that later. But she's had, rather than me 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.680 read out a bio, read something off a website or 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.960 some other kind of forum. Can you give us a 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.080 snapshot of who you are, your background and the work 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.440 that you do so my audience can get to know 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:14.160 you a little bit. 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:22.360 Yes. My passion there is and i'm here is changing lives, 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:25.480 and I have a very specific way of looking at that, 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.760 which is I believe every single one of us is 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:34.639 very actively and profoundly sabotaging ourselves every single day, sabotaging 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:38.360 our well being, performance, and relationship. I discovered that I 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:40.400 do that years ago. I figured out how to do 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.160 less of that years ago, and I am passionate about 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.880 helping others do less self sabotage and being more in 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:51.200 self mastery change their own lives. And that's what I do. 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.079 I come at it from a more science science background, 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.680 so a lot of what I'm into is making sure 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.160 that what we do is first of all easy to do, 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:05.960 secondly based on research and science, and third it results 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:10.239 in lasting change rather than often we do things that 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.680 get us excited for a temporary period and then we're 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:17.160 back to old behavior. So I'm very passionate about how 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:22.320 do we create sustained transformation rather than the usual you know, 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.400 temporary blips and how we feel and what we do. 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:31.800 Yeah, that's absolutely paramount, isn't it. Because we're so good 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:36.080 at at changing things for a minute, or changing behavior, 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.840 or changing our operating system for a moment. And you know, 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:43.920 when you look at the fundamentals, like for example, just 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.280 trying to get in shape, whatever that means, you know, 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.480 lose a few pounds, gain a bit of muscle, improve fitness, 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:54.880 you know, change change something about our physiology. Like gyms 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.760 can almost rely in fact not almost gyms can rely 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.600 on the fact that people will make decisions that they 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.480 won't follow through on. And I don't know what I 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.520 don't know what the stat is in the States, although 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.440 I've spoken in the States a bit, But in Australia 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:13.880 there's a very act the people who use the gym consistently, 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.400 which is called active gym membership is very low. It's 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.520 somewhere around fifteen percent. And it means She's add that 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:25.160 for every hundred current paid up members, most of them 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.359 don't go why do you reckon we make? Why do 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.680 we make decisions that we don't ultimately follow through on? 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.880 Well, I mean that's the whole point of my research 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:42.520 where I look at how our bad old behavior they 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.240 are habitual and the reason they are habitual as they 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.000 live in the brain and form of neural pathways that 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:54.560 are muscle power and generate those behaviors instantly. Now, when 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.360 you read a book or attend a lecture or talk 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.479 to somebody who inspire is you to do something different? 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.240 I go to the gym that's an inspiration that is 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.360 not muscle power. It's just an inspiration. So you make 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.960 decisions based on those moments of inspiration. Oh my god, 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:13.480 this is a life changing thing I'm going to do. 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.080 And what I talked about is that you can't fight 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.200 muscle with insight. You need to fight muscle with muscle. 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:25.240 So that inspiration until it becomes neuropathways in the brain 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.960 muscle power, it doesn't mean much. It evaporates. And most 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.440 of us have these life changing experiences that are based 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:36.440 on insights, and we fail to convert those insights into 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.360 neuropathways into muscles in the brain. At the end, the 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.039 muscle power of the old ways keeps winning over. 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:49.640 Yeah, it's that's so true because it's almost like inspiration 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.320 is the spark that lights the fire, but we need 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.560 to fire to keep burning, you know. And it's so 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:00.560 so I guess part of like intertwined with creating new 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.400 neural pathways and a new for one of a more 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:07.680 academic term, a new behavioral default setting or a new normal, 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:11.600 or a new set of habits that work for us 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:16.960 that are hardwired into our brain. But what's that? Because 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.720 we know that we get excited and motivated and inspired, 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.520 and we also know that we give up. So what's 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:28.800 the that's is it about? Accountability? Is about having a 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.920 coach or a mentor or a training partner. How that 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.400 spot between I got excited for three days and then 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.320 I gave up, and now I've got new neural pathways 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.320 and this is my new version of normal. What's the 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:44.280 bit in the middle. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.320 Yeah, I think the big issue is that we treat 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:53.320 the symptoms and not look at the problem. Why we 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.679 go back to the old behavior at the root cause. 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.360 So all of our research has been about the root 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.280 cause problem. What we did with working with more than 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:06.320 a million participants by now with it an assessment of 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.760 how we self sabotage. And what we determine is that 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.440 there are ten ways we self sabotage. These characters in 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.360 our head are the ones that have muscle power, that 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.000 have the bad patterns of our life. And the reason 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.880 we don't stick with the new things we want to 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.680 do is that these characters in our mind are very 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.840 powerful beings and they win over and so, and they 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:34.840 have names like the judge, the controller, the stickler, the victim, 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:39.800 the pleaser, the avoid the restless. So they got muscle 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:43.120 power they got, they got habits, and so being inspired, 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.920 they come back and sabotage the new ways that we 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.320 want to set in place, because these characters are like 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:54.240 being in power and like to take take command from us. 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.600 And until and unless we deal with this root level 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:02.240 what we call saboteurs and our our brain, we'll keep 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:06.120 building castles on sand because we don't have a strong 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:06.880 enough foundation. 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.520 And how do we deal with them? I mean, I 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.560 know it's I'm sure it's not. I think it's a 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.400 sure it's multi dimensional. But you know, all of these 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.640 hard wirde characters in our brain that kind of derail 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.080 us and sabotage us. Where do we begin? 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:31.000 Well, where we begin is to first of all call 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.800 them on the lie that they have which the reason 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:39.040 that they're in power is that they have fooled us 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.680 into believing that they are our friends and that we 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.480 need them. So I work with a lot of CEOs, 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.480 and every single one of them, you know, tells me, 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.320 you know what I mean, not all of them have 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.160 the controllers out or what most of them do. And 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.640 they say, without controller, nothing gets done. You know. The 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.440 stickler says, without the stickler, there will be no quality 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.000 in the work that I do, and the restlesses. Without 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.760 the restless, I won't have any fun. So these ways 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:09.280 are ways where we tell ourselves we have survived until now. 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:13.240 These characters are actually agents of survival that we all 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.760 have them because in our childhood we learned to do 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.480 these things in order to get more love, in order 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.319 to feel more safe, in order to be more independent. 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.679 So they are our go to operating system of our 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.120 five year old version, and they have convinced us that 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.079 we need them in are to survive, and by the 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.920 time we are adults, we think we can't live without them. 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:38.200 So first and foremost we have to debunk that and 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.800 tell you, as a matter of fact, you do not 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.120 need them, and there is a far better way of living. 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.920 The Stanford students that have lectured on this they call 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:52.800 this work Jedi mind training, and what they say, really 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.880 the work here is about recognizing that inside your mind 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:00.319 there are these dark waters and then there's the energy Jedi. 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.160 And we got to really call the dart waters for 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:08.840 their lives, debunk them, discredit them, and lean into our Energjedi, 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.199 which we call the sage. So it's the Sage versus 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.520 Sabbator going on inside of our head, and it starts 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.520 with awareness. Awareness is critical. It's just that awareness is 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.920 twenty percent the starting point, and eighty percent is getting 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:25.920 into building muscles. 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.720 Such I was about to say, it sounds like high 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.640 level self awareness, you know. It's like and being able. 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.280 You know. I think about this a lot like stuff 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.559 because you and I kind of are in the same 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:42.360 space human behavior and thinking and metacognition and theory of 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.040 mind and understanding how others think and what we think. 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.240 But it takes courage, and it takes self control to 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:56.679 be able to recognize your own self limiting thinking and 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.360 self limiting habits and self limiting behaviors, and and the 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.440 way that you get in your own way, you know, 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.080 the way that you know. It's like I do a 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.160 lot of corporate speaking, and I did one the other 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.120 day and there was two hundred and fifty people and 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.560 I said, put up your hand if you're an overthinker. 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.160 Every hand goes up, and then I go, how's that 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:21.000 working for you? And everybody laughs because we all do it, 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:25.360 but it doesn't work, you know, And so so then 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.760 being able to without self loathing, I think this is 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:34.040 the key. You know is that that to be able 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:37.680 to be self aware without beating yourself up, without being 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:39.120 overly self critical. 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:45.760 You know, absolutely, And here's the challenge that of these 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:50.160 ten characters sense abators I talked about, the only one 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.240 that everybody has is the judge Sabator, and the judged 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:58.960 Sabator is the one that amplifies the negative in yourself, 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.000 in our and in circumstances. So it's the one that's 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:07.120 constantly finding what's wrong with yourself with others amateur circumstances. 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.560 And it's the one that sabotages our attempt to change 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.880 because of exactly what you said, the self loading, because 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.720 it discourages us. It just waits for a moment to say, hey, 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.400 you're not going to make it. Look you're just wired 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.880 this way. Forget about it. And so all of our 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:29.280 attempts at change, first and foremost are discredited by unsabotaged 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.240 by the Judge Sabatur. So what we do in our 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.120 work is one of the metaphors. One of the things 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.960 that we keep using is you know, metaphors related to 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.080 physical fitness. So we say, okay, if you if you 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.560 try to learn a new sports, have you you can 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:50.480 have you ever imagined anybody learning a new game and 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.040 just starting and being good and then better and better 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.199 and better and better and better every single day. The 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.360 answer is no. When you start trying to learn a 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.079 new game, you have a good day, you take two 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.680 steps forward and then a step back, to steps forward 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.960 a step back, and when you take that step back 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.560 in an attempt to improve, that judge character is going 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:12.480 to come beat the crap out of you and say, 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.040 shame on you, your piece of shit. I told you you 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.280 cannot improve. Forget about it. You know you're not gonna ever. 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.640 This is not going to work, and it discourages you 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.120 from going on and what we do instead saying that 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.000 as you take that step back, as you fall again, 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.320 it is critical to watch this voice coming and beating 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:31.679 you up and say no, no, I'm not going to let 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.960 you do that. I'm going to give myself a big, 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.880 loving hug. It's the sage part of you, the positive 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.600 part of you that brings compassion to you. When you're done, alan, 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.880 let this judge character beat the crap out of you. 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:45.760 So if you truly want to improve in a sustained way, 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.800 self compassion versus self judgment is a critical fork in 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.240 the road that you need to keep really watching. 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.800 For now, I'm going to let you know how we've 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:01.160 obviously we've got a long way Togo, but so should. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:06.199 I wrote a book called Positive Intelligence New York Times bestseller. 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.560 No less, of course you did Positive Intelligence, so have 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:15.440 a look for that. But also if people want to 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.760 see where they kind of lay in this space, you've 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:23.080 got an online quiz that people can do that like 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.200 five minutes or less. Can you just while we're in 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.480 this space, can you tell them how to access that? 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:33.720 Please? Yeah, it's just five minute online sabatur assessment. In 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.240 five minutes you get a bar chart that shows you 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:40.320 which of these ways of self sabotage is strongest in you? 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.200 Is it the avoider, the controller, the victims? What is it? Whatever? Again? 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:50.240 There are ten altogether, and you access it through Positive 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:55.320 Integions dot com slash assessment Positive Intelligence dot com slash assessment, 0:14:55.520 --> 0:15:01.240 and it's free and of course strictly confident information just 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:01.560 for you. 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:10.320 Out of interest. How much does the environment, the situation, 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:15.600 the friendship, groups, the family, the social constructs around us 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:21.560 influence how we see ourselves? Like if I'm a really supportive, 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.240 loving environment and people Am I going to be less 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.400 likely to have that internal sabotur going off the meta 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:29.040 all the time? 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.200 Yeah? Great question, and maybe I can answer it by 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.560 talking about my two kids. I have two beautiful kids 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.240 who are not twenty one and twenty five years old. 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.400 They were born from day one. Day were night and 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:49.760 day opposites from each other. My son was this very 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:56.040 easy going, even keel you know, life is a bullet cherries. Hey, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.920 let's take it easy, let's just have fun. That kind 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:04.040 of a flexible, adoptable personality. My daughter was born and 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:09.520 it's very sweet and introverted. My daughter was a raging 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.960 extrovert from day one, and she was a hard charger 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.400 and she was very goal oriented and very very different 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:20.440 in blueprint. Both of these are so I basically say, 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.720 you know, you're born a rose or you're born a carnation. 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.440 Rose can never be a carnation. Cornation can never be 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.920 a rose. You got to really lean into the beauty 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:30.880 that you're born to be. So there you're born with 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:36.960 different essences. Now, those ways of being under the same 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:41.120 exact environment when they were grown up resulted in them 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:47.360 developing different saboteurs. So my son, who had that very 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:52.120 sweet temperament and life is a boll cherries. When he 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:56.920 was facing challenges and stresses in life, he overused that strength, 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:01.360 which became the avoid sabaturs, and instead of tackling challenges, 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.920 he said, this is unpleasant. Life is supposed to be pleasant. 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:05.800 I'm not going to deal with this, and so his 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.640 sabatur became the avoid. My daughter, on the other hand, 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.480 who was very hard charging and all had those strengths. 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.840 When facebook challenges, she overused those strengths and in the 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.080 process she developed the controller sabaturs, so controller sabator versus 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.840 the avoider sabator. So basically, what I believe is that 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:29.119 we are born with predisposition for different natural strengths, which 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.760 when they're overused, they've become their saboteurs. Because we over 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:38.320 use our strengths and insult by overusing them and abusing them, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.399 they become the way we sabotage ourselves. And then the 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:46.200 degree of difficulty that we have in childhood affects how 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.439 strong these saboteurs become. But I think, but I believe 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.560 that the development of sabaturs is a completely normal part 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:57.280 of human beings growth. My son and daughter grew up 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.000 with the best of haarenting. Of course, as you can imagine, 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.480 and right in front of my eyes they developed the 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.440 avoid and the controller sabaturs. It's unavoidable. 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.399 And so what was what was your form of self 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.240 sabotage growing up or even in your even in your 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.879 early kind of adult years or maybe even now, do 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.680 you still get in your own way? Yeah? What what's 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:19.200 your think? 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:24.280 Absolutely, I believe we all do this every day. It's unavoidable. 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.840 And the mind, a strong one was the victim sabator. 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:33.200 And I was diagnosed with clinical depression when I was 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.320 about thirty years old. I had no idea that the 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:36.919 first three years of my life I had lived in 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:42.400 colnicol depression. And the reason that the sabateor was the 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.520 survival strategy. These sabators are survival strategies. The reason I 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:48.560 had that is I was growing up in a in 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:54.359 a in poverty, in a in a ghetto with my 0:18:55.640 --> 0:19:00.199 with force siblings, a tiny little apartment. My father a 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:04.520 terrifying man. He was very angry and scary to me. 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:06.600 My mother was running around terrified of him. And I 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.680 was a very sensitive kid, terrified and not getting much 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:15.520 love or attention, and one of my survival strategies was 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.760 the victim sabatur And what that meant is instead of 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.480 confronting and having fights and all of that stuff, I 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.320 withdrew from it all. I would go to a quiet, 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:26.360 a little corner in the room, and I would create 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:30.639 this cocoon of depression, of just being, of self pity, 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.119 and in so doing, the reason it was helpful for 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.480 my survival it was two reasons. One, I was removing 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:41.880 myself from the hostility and the pain to some extent, 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:46.439 so I wasn't triggering much by moving myself to that corner. 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:50.119 The second thing is which I later I later realized 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:55.160 years later, is that in the absence of getting love, 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:59.080 what I had found is that actually self pity is 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:03.520 was very suited. So instead of getting love, I learned 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.320 to give my self pity because that was a very 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:10.160 soothing way. And it only took me years and years 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.199 and years. At some point you realize, you know what 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.119 I actually deserve love, I don't deserve self pity. So 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.600 as an adult, I was playing victim all over the place, 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.439 and it took me forever to realize that I was 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.920 still trying to bring my self pity and get pity 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.160 from others. And at some point I woke up and said, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.159 you know what, I actually deserve love, not pity, and 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.040 that was the end of my playing the victim sabator 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.000 in such a powerful way. And to your point, is 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.320 this salator still with me or not? This veritor is 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.679 definitely not running me. I no longer am I in depression. 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.720 It is not my go to thing every time something 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:47.560 doesn't go well, and I still find self pity to 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:52.439 be incredibly seductive. I don't go there, but I know 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.080 that it's a seductive thing when something doesn't go well, 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.040 but I catch it, don't go there. I may go 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.960 there a few times a year. It's not very common. Yeah, 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.520 so it's no longer running me, but it's still absolutely 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.639 their sabotage never go away. That you can make them 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:09.639 much smaller, but they never fully go away. 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.560 Wow, thank you so much. I love it when I 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.440 get someone on who's an expert in something written, a book, 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:19.960 spoken all over the world, done all the stuff that 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.600 you do, and then still go But by the way, 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:24.959 I'm still a bit broken. You know, I'm better than 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:27.200 I was, but I'm still a work in progress. And 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:31.040 I love that because I think, you know, it actually 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.119 encourages the rest of us, you know, and it's so true. 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.560 I think we're all a bit brilliant, all a bit flawed, 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:41.679 all a bit amazing, all a bit ridiculous. And it 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:45.520 takes courage, I think, especially because I don't know if 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:47.679 men do have bigger egos or not, but I feel 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.199 like we always want to be seen to be the 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:55.960 best and the shiniest and the most flawless. And yeah, 0:21:56.000 --> 0:22:00.879 my curiosity with human behavior, and you knowsogy is really 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.119 out of all of my own ineptitude and all of 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:07.760 my own flaws and bullshit and self doubt and insecurity, 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.000 and yeah, it is. I feel like it is definitely 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:13.760 a work in progress. I've got to I don't know 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:17.440 if you've ever been asked this question, but is there 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:22.160 what are the you probably have? What are the benefits 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:28.479 or what is the upside to self sabotage? Because there 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:30.720 must be something in it for us or we wouldn't 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:31.120 do it. 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.879 Yeah. What I talk about with the saboteurs is that 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:40.399 they are the ones in us that generate all of 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:45.080 our negative emotions. Negative emotions like stress, anger, shame, guilt, disappointment, 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:51.040 regret all of these things. And the question is aren't 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.840 these negative emotions helpful? If they weren't, why would we 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:56.200 have them? And the answer and in order to answer 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:59.400 the question, you know, aren't negative emotions helpful? I ask 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.480 a religate that question. I asked people, what do you 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:05.840 think about pain? Do you think pain is helpful? Is 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:09.480 it helpful? Is it helpful to have pain? And you 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:12.760 know the answer is obvious. Of course, it's helpful to 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:17.480 have pain. Why because if the stove is left on 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:19.840 accidentally and you put your hand on the out stove, 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:21.720 it's good to feel pain. If you don't feel pain, 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:23.520 you're going to keep your hand on the out stove 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:26.360 and burn to the bone. So therefore, pain is very 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:29.600 helpful as an ARTH signal. But here's the million dollar question. 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:33.600 How long would you like to feel the pain of 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:36.199 your hand on the hot stove before you get the 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:40.520 message and before you move a hand? And hopefully we'll 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:43.480