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Speaker 1: I tell you it's ups and tiff. I'm back. Fuck,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. I couldn't be any more back.

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Speaker 1: I'm in eleven. I'm not even a ten. I'm in eleven.

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Speaker 1: My energy's great. I can string more than four words together.

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Speaker 1: I remember Mum's name now, which is great. There was

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Speaker 1: a week or so where she was just that old,

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Speaker 1: familiar woman that was kind to me. But my memory

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Speaker 1: is back and I'm feeling much better. And all of

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Speaker 1: you have sent me well wishers and all of that.

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Speaker 1: You know, love stuff. You're the best. You're the best.

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Speaker 1: Now before I throw over to the actual boss, Melissa,

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Speaker 1: who's the boss of the actual boy. She's everyone's boss.

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Speaker 1: So there's Melissa, then there's Tip, who's two icee, and

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Speaker 1: then I'm essentially the janitor in the organization. Melissa will

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Speaker 1: yell at me if I don't tell you that I

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Speaker 1: am coming to the Goldie the Gold Coast on October nine,

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Speaker 1: and I'm doing a gig. I'm doing a gig called

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Speaker 1: becoming ungive Upable. I've done that once in Melbs went

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Speaker 1: off like a log in a sock. And in almost

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Speaker 1: two thousand that's right, almost two thousand episodes that Becoming

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Speaker 1: Ungive Upable episode is I think the most listened to ever,

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Speaker 1: And so I've kind of created a slightly newer, more

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Speaker 1: modified not that I've done this workshopping coins and anyway before,

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Speaker 1: but I'm doing that at the RICV Club at the

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Speaker 1: Royal Pines on October nine, which is I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: Thursday night tickets right now are super cheap. That's not

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Speaker 1: a sales pitch, it's just they're just fucking super cheap.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to come along, go have look

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Speaker 1: at the website, have a bit of a read. See

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Speaker 1: if that resonates with you. See if it's something that

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Speaker 1: you think might be fun for you and potentially valuable

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Speaker 1: for you to attend live and I'll say hello to

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Speaker 1: you in person. And if I don't have the current

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Speaker 1: lurgie that I have that's almost gone, I'll give you

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Speaker 1: a hug. You may not want a hug, So if

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Speaker 1: you don't want a hug, still come and stay away

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Speaker 1: from me. But if you do want a hug. Allowed

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Speaker 1: us to offer people hugs tip or is that inappropriate

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Speaker 1: these days? Is it too? Oh my god? That's is

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Speaker 1: it coming back around? Is it coming back around?

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Speaker 2: Hind people? Unseen and just give them hugs, but you

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Speaker 2: can definitely offer them.

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Speaker 1: No, you can't attack someone from behind, like the lady

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Speaker 1: that I've had. This happened a few times, but recently,

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Speaker 1: maybe last week at the I won't say the name

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Speaker 1: of the cafe, the Hampton's, and wasn't their fault. I opened.

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Speaker 1: I was walking, she was walking towards the door. I

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Speaker 1: opened the door. I stood way back. I opened the

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Speaker 1: door for her, and she goes, I can open the

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Speaker 1: door myself, thank you, to which I replied okay, And

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Speaker 1: then I walked in and pulled it behind me and

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Speaker 1: left her out there. I'm like, there, you go, do

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Speaker 1: your best, Like basically, I don't know why, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: here's my thought, Well, we're going in the same joint.

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Speaker 1: I'll open the door for you. How fucking terrible of me?

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Speaker 1: What was I thinking? And then looked at me like

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Speaker 1: I just called her the C word or something worse.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand. I mean, but ninety nine out of

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Speaker 1: one hundred people go, thank you so much, pleasure, have

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Speaker 1: a good day. But just it's funny you can do

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Speaker 1: the same thing anyway. That's got nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: my workshop at the Royal Pines RACV Club on October nine.

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Speaker 1: Be there or be somewhere else. Go to the old website,

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Speaker 1: click on education. You can just find out all the

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Speaker 1: ins and outs of what's going to go on that

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Speaker 1: night and possibly book a ticket or fifty. Love to

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Speaker 1: see you there, love, Harps, Hi TeV.

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Speaker 2: I'm a bit jealous that I can't be.

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Speaker 1: There suffering your jock. Suppose suffering hugs, Well, you don't.

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Speaker 1: You get a lot of hugs. You get a lot

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Speaker 1: of hugs. You get constant attention from your dog and cat.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 1: You have your own little bloody cult following. Now, Oh,

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Speaker 1: people go to me all the time. How great, stiff,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, fucking okay, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Atually not following me. They're following the dog and the cats.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well they're like, well, people are now just talking

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Speaker 1: to me so they can get access to you, which

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Speaker 1: is pretty annoying.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty well in my world, Harps.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I used to be the big deal. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: like the phone, do you want me to carry that

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Speaker 1: for you? Ok? That's gone.

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Speaker 2: I told you yesterday. It was I don't know how

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Speaker 2: many years anniversary, maybe six or seven or eight eight

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Speaker 2: years since I was holding the clipboard with the Craig

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Speaker 2: Harper do the Bloody Work t shirt with my first camp.

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Speaker 1: That's back when I was a big deal and you

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Speaker 1: were a shit kicker. And now I'm holding the clipboard

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Speaker 1: for you at your conferences and just you know, parking

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Speaker 1: the car and just you know taking well, I'm not,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like that, No, you've done well, and

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Speaker 1: I couldn't be fucking happier for you know, really it's great.

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Speaker 1: You know when people like pretend I'm fucking around, of course,

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Speaker 1: but you know when you do well and people you know,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't fucking that doesn't make people or someone happy.

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Speaker 1: And then you bump into them and it's through gritted teeth.

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Speaker 1: They kind of congratulate you on something that's going on,

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Speaker 1: but you're like, oh haha, you don't want to tell

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Speaker 1: me this at all because you don't really want it

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Speaker 1: to be happening. You're a bit angry it's not you,

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Speaker 1: but that's okay, I'll take it. So today we're doing

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Speaker 1: something different. I was a little bit lazy and I

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Speaker 1: said to Chatters. I said chat, I said pet, I

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Speaker 1: said love chat GPT five. That is give me some

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Speaker 1: ideas for a topic to talk about that I haven't

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Speaker 1: spoken about or I didn't write this bit, but that

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Speaker 1: I haven't covered on the upro. What I love is

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Speaker 1: the fact that it knows what I haven't spoken about.

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Speaker 1: That that's both awesome and fucking terrifying. And it came

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Speaker 1: up with a topic or an idea, which is the

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Speaker 1: psychology of enough, and I feel like, yeah, that is

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Speaker 1: a good conversation to have. What is enough? When is enough?

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Speaker 1: How do we know what's enough? So this everyone is

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Speaker 1: an organic conversation. This is not something I've researched and

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Speaker 1: I've got all the answers, and I've got the data,

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Speaker 1: and I've dived in, dived dove. I haven't dived into

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Speaker 1: english or grammar, that's for sure. I haven't dove into,

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Speaker 1: you know, all of the research. So I can't tell you,

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Speaker 1: you know, unequivocally what is and isn't. But this is

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Speaker 1: something that I have thought about, like why do we

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Speaker 1: keep chasing? So we get stuff? Then the stuff we

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Speaker 1: have is not enough, Then we want more stuff, and

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Speaker 1: then we get the more stuff and it's like fuck,

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Speaker 1: that's not it. Or we climb the mountain, we get

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Speaker 1: to the top, of the mountain, we go, Fuck, it's not

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Speaker 1: this mountain, be that mountain over there, or we seem

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Speaker 1: to have this insatiable kind of sometimes appetite or hunger.

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Speaker 1: And I've got a few thoughts on that that I

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Speaker 1: might share through the show. Do you ever think about

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Speaker 1: this idea of how much shit do I actually need?

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Speaker 2: All the time? All the time? Yeah, And it's a

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Speaker 2: funny thing to sit in the middle of and be

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Speaker 2: aware of it and still in it and try and

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Speaker 2: have perspective like I've always compared back, you know, like

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Speaker 2: when things were really grim in COVID, and I was

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Speaker 2: more comfortable then than when accepting that the worst might

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Speaker 2: happen than when the worst didn't happen. Yes, And I

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Speaker 2: just find that really, yeah, annoying and interesting.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I think was interesting about COVID

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Speaker 1: from the psychology of enough perspective is when you go

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Speaker 1: when all of a sudden, well, you can't go there,

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Speaker 1: you can't go to the gym, you can't go more

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Speaker 1: than five kilometers, you can't go to that cafe, and

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Speaker 1: you can't go to the supermarket today because your day's Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that they gave you could go every

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Speaker 1: second day, or there was a few things. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you just go, oh, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: like you just adapt. You go, ah, well, now now

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Speaker 1: all those things that used to I used to do that,

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Speaker 1: I used to have to do it. I've got to

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Speaker 1: be at the cafe at this time every morning, and

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Speaker 1: I've got to sit down and I've got to have

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Speaker 1: them where you can't do that. And you go, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: I won't do it because you can't do it. So

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Speaker 1: you don't get frustrated because it's not a possibility anymore

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Speaker 1: because they've taken that off the table. So then you go,

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Speaker 1: all right, well, what's my new protocol? Then you figure

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Speaker 1: out something else. Then you do that, and the thing

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Speaker 1: that you thought you absolutely needed you can't have, so

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Speaker 1: therefore you just don't fucking need it anymore. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, So what I you open the batting? Because

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Speaker 1: I know you've got a few questions. Why don't you

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Speaker 1: open the batting? And we'll see where we go this

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Speaker 1: with this little idea. By the way, everybody, this is

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Speaker 1: a collaboration between chat GPT, as I said, and TIF

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Speaker 1: and I. So these questions probably not all of them,

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Speaker 1: but at least half of them are AI generated. So

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Speaker 1: if you're thinking fucked if so genius, she's not. She is.

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Speaker 1: I'm just fucking around with you. Ah, it's a joke.

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Speaker 1: It was a joke.

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Speaker 2: Well, this went straight from the mouth of chat GPT.

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Speaker 2: Young chatters would like to know, grag Anthony Harbor, how

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Speaker 2: do you personally define enough and why is it such

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Speaker 2: a slippery concept for most people?

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Speaker 1: Yep, So I don't want to bore people with that

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Speaker 1: old chestnut of I had this realization when I owned

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Speaker 1: all these businesses, but that is true for me. I

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Speaker 1: got to a point where I just had lots of,

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Speaker 1: you know things, I was doing quite well from a

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Speaker 1: business point of view and a career point of view,

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Speaker 1: and you know, just owning stuff and having stuff, but

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Speaker 1: that didn't really, in fact, it didn't at all correlate

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Speaker 1: with increased happiness for me or joy or calm or contentment.

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Speaker 1: And so that was where I started to do a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a deep dive personally on this, not

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Speaker 1: so much how much stuff do I need or what's enough,

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Speaker 1: but rather what is it that I need specifically? Like clearly,

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Speaker 1: I know I don't need three cars or six motorbikes

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Money in the bank. That's more money than

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Speaker 1: I could spend. I know I don't need that, but

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Speaker 1: what do I need? And so for me? In fact,

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Speaker 1: I was on someone else's podcast yesterday, Kate Saves podcast

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Speaker 1: with a guy called Toby, Toby Skovron, and she asked me, no,

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Speaker 1: she was talking about me. She was just riffing and

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Speaker 1: she said, you know what I like about you, which

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Speaker 1: was nice, and I said, what is that? She said that, like,

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Speaker 1: you're so understated, like I've known you for a long time,

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Speaker 1: and I never see you like you dressed up as

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Speaker 1: a pair of jeans and maybe a shirt right and

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Speaker 1: boots that I think I've seen you in one thousand times.

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Speaker 1: I go, you would be correct, right, And she goes

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Speaker 1: and tell people what kind of car you drive, like

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Speaker 1: most of the time. I go, I drive a six

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Speaker 1: year old Suzuki Swift right, And she's like, and you

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Speaker 1: don't need to I go, No, nobody needs to drive

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Speaker 1: any model. I go, I just like, I'm comfy. And

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Speaker 1: then when I'm not driving that I'm riding a scooter,

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Speaker 1: which is and I mean a sit down scooter like

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Speaker 1: a road scooter, which is probably worth seven hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: and I've had it for about twelve years, and I

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Speaker 1: think I've had it service twice and it's a piece

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Speaker 1: of shit and I couldn't love it more, you know.

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Speaker 1: So I think that for me, I like that I'm

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Speaker 1: not personally high maintenance, that I need lots of stuff,

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Speaker 1: or I need big stuff or expensive stuff or fancy stuff.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, So for me, enough is more about spiritual, emotional, psychological, social,

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Speaker 1: It's not so much about things. It's more about internal

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Speaker 1: than external. And I think why part B of your

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Speaker 1: question why is it such a slippery concept for people?

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Speaker 1: Is that for a lot of people, when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about enough, we're talking about the external things, like I

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Speaker 1: just said, and so enough what enough brand, enough followers,

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Speaker 1: enough money, enough profile, enough respect, enough of a house,

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Speaker 1: enough of a car. And I don't think having lots

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Speaker 1: of that stuff is bad, of course, sorry, Tiff. I

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Speaker 1: just think that when our whole concept of success and

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Speaker 1: failure or enough or not enough is all about everything

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Speaker 1: that people can see, we're probably barking up the wrong

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Speaker 1: tree or we're probably you know, heading down the wrong

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Speaker 1: tunnel in that sense. So I think it's I think

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Speaker 1: enough is more of an internal reflection than an external

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Speaker 1: kind of you know search.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The second question that chat is asked is will

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Speaker 2: be one I want to explain expand and I reckon

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Speaker 2: it's interesting what psychological or evolutionary forces push humans to

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Speaker 2: constantly seek more?

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Speaker 1: That is, I saw that, and I thought, I hope

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Speaker 1: she doesn't ask me that, because that's quite.

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Speaker 2: A true favorite one. That's my favorite.

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Speaker 1: No, I think it's good. So I think let's start

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Speaker 1: with let's separate psychological and evolutionary. So psychological forces that

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Speaker 1: push us to seek more, well, I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: a single thing. I mean, I also want your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on this, but my thoughts immediately are like, so, we're

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Speaker 1: not talking about need based. We're talking about psychological forces

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Speaker 1: or urges or compulsion. So for me, that would be

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Speaker 1: I don't feel enough, so I need more. I need

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Speaker 1: to be more, I have more or seem more to others.

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Speaker 1: Or perhaps I don't feel safe, so I want more

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Speaker 1: stuff so I feel secure. I don't feel like I

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Speaker 1: have enough money. If the shit hits the fan, I

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Speaker 1: feel I'm going to be massively disadvantaged and at risk.

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Speaker 1: So it might be that I feel, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: way too vulnerable, so I need to do more and

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Speaker 1: get more so that I'm safe and I'm secure. What

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Speaker 1: else I think, because we are, well, a lot of

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Speaker 1: us are insecure and feel you know, not enough, itis

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Speaker 1: and all of that stuff. We're not enough that we're

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Speaker 1: compelled to try to, you know, whatever it is, look better,

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Speaker 1: function better, and be more attractive, more desirable, to fit

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Speaker 1: into the group, to belong, to make us more desirable

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Speaker 1: and accessible or want it. I guess by other person. Fuck, sorry,

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Speaker 1: my voice? Can you hear my voice? Sorry, everybody, I've

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Speaker 1: got all of a sudden after telling you how fucking

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Speaker 1: great I am, my voice is collapsing. But I feel good,

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Speaker 1: that's the main thing. Yeah. And then I guess from

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Speaker 1: an evolutionary perspective, Like evolutionary, it's really evolutionarily it's been

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Speaker 1: all about survival. So I think we I think, really

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Speaker 1: that's about security, self preservation. You know, you think about

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Speaker 1: any time other than the last two hundred, you know,

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Speaker 1: one hundred hundred and fifty years, where we've had a

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Speaker 1: very advanced you know, even one hundred years ago, it

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Speaker 1: was extremely advanced compared to most of humanity three hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand years of modern humans roaming the globe, and even

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Speaker 1: one hundred years ago there were airplanes, there were telephones,

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Speaker 1: there were cars. That was like crazy, So I think,

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Speaker 1: but that aside in terms of the evolution of the

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Speaker 1: species over hundreds of thousands of years, I think the

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Speaker 1: force to seek more was about not just security and safety,

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Speaker 1: but also power and control, which kind of equals security

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Speaker 1: and safety. So you think about on an individual level,

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Speaker 1: why some people more assertive and bossy in this and that.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just because that's how they are, but often

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Speaker 1: it's because that gives people, or that ultimately can give

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Speaker 1: people more leverage, more social leverage, maybe more respect, maybe

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Speaker 1: more fear, but definitely more power and control. And then

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Speaker 1: you think about that on a global level with wars

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Speaker 1: and country is dominating countries or trying to invade countries,

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Speaker 1: or you know, religious wars and cultural war wars and

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Speaker 1: geographic wars. This is people trying to force themselves on

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Speaker 1: others or dominate others or control others for their own

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Speaker 1: personal gain.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well you agree. Yeah, first thing you said,

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Speaker 2: because I think when I think about myself and enough,

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Speaker 2: I think it wraps a lot around that safety and

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Speaker 2: security piece, Like I think that our attachment to in

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Speaker 2: two ways. Our attachment to things comes from the meaning,

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Speaker 2: this unconscious meaning that we're placed on it, and then

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Speaker 2: we're driven a lot by I guess, just the dopamine

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Speaker 2: rewards of when we do make achievements. So we've just

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Speaker 2: we've got that, you know, that reward system reinforcing behaviors.

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Speaker 1: I think that ties it, and that ties in with

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Speaker 1: the next question that you may or made may not ask,

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Speaker 1: but it talks about hedonic adaptation, you know, So that's

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. So why don't you ask that? Then

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Speaker 1: we'll just keep rapping on about this because it all

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Speaker 1: ties in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So how does hedonic adaptation play into our

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Speaker 2: perpetual dissatisfaction with achievements and possessions?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So, hedonic adaptation is essentially when we do that

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Speaker 1: thing that gives us pleasure, it gives us that dopamine hit,

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Speaker 1: It makes us feel great mentally, physically, emotionally, we feel great.

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Speaker 1: And then we go back and we hit the button

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Speaker 1: again and we still feel great, but we don't feel

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Speaker 1: ten out of ten. Now we feel eight or nine.

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Speaker 1: And eventually the thing that made us feel that rush,

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Speaker 1: that pleasure, that joy, that could be centraal, could be sexual,

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Speaker 1: could just be emotional. It can be physical and or

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Speaker 1: mental and emotional. That thing eventually isn't there anymore. So

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Speaker 1: now we've adapted. So now instead of one whatever it was,

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Speaker 1: now we need two whatever it is to give us

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Speaker 1: the same response. Eventually we need ten. And this is

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Speaker 1: I hesitate to say this, but I'm going to say this.

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Speaker 1: So I remember talking to a friend of mine. Do

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Speaker 1: I say this, I'm going to say it, and then

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Speaker 1: you tell me at the end if we should keep

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Speaker 1: it in or cut it out. But I had a

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Speaker 1: friend who ended up being a sex addict, and he like,

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Speaker 1: he did all the normal things that we you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know when he bought first whatever, but he

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Speaker 1: did whatever. And then he had a girlfriend and eventually

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Speaker 1: and he was always you know, rooting, I mean every day, like,

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Speaker 1: and that was like his main thing. He was just

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Speaker 1: loved it, couldn't get enough of it. Then eventually, and

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Speaker 1: I won't describe, but things had to escalate for him

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Speaker 1: to get the same response right, the same feeling. So

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Speaker 1: it needed to be you know, I won't go into

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Speaker 1: different methods and positions, situations and the equipment. Right then

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Speaker 1: Eventually he ended up having sex with men while telling

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Speaker 1: me he wasn't gay, which this is not any judgment,

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Speaker 1: This is just what happened because he got to the

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Speaker 1: point and it was probably a ten year journey where

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Speaker 1: being with a female just he couldn't get that that

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Speaker 1: feeling like that that hedonistic, that rush, that whatever it

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Speaker 1: is that you know that in inverted commas, normal people

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Speaker 1: get with their partner or with their lover or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And then he goes, I know, but it's just yeah,

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Speaker 1: he said to me. I remember having this conversation with

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Speaker 1: him because I was I was supported, but I was shocked.

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Speaker 1: And then we ended up having anyway, we had a

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Speaker 1: really big chat, and then we ended up having a

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Speaker 1: few chats, and then he went and got treatment because

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Speaker 1: he realized that it's like this is this is not

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Speaker 1: a normal evolution, Like there's something going on. No judgment,

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Speaker 1: just love. And by the way, if you gaye straight, whatever,

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Speaker 1: I'm cool, doesn't matter. It's not about It's like while

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Speaker 1: telling me, I'm not actually gay and I'm not actually

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Speaker 1: attracted to men, but I can't get turned on unless

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Speaker 1: there's this it's like either dangerous or weird or yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I remember watching that over time and thinking thinking,

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Speaker 1: how is this going to end? Because he used to

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Speaker 1: tell me what he did. I'm like, bro, that's not

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Speaker 1: that's not just normal sex drive. That's something and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so I don't have the answer to that, but

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Speaker 1: it does that capacity that we have, especially when we

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Speaker 1: keep going back regularly, like hourly or twice a day

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Speaker 1: or every day and press that button again. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think, like with so many people, it's like how

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Speaker 1: eventually you take three panad doll when you took one

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Speaker 1: and it took away the pain, and then three doesn't

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Speaker 1: take away the pain. Now you need five and then

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Speaker 1: and all of these things that create these physiological responses

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Speaker 1: in our body which are something pleasurable or at least

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Speaker 1: something that takes away pain. Over time, very often, unless

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Speaker 1: the dose in inverted commas goes up, the pleasure goes away,

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Speaker 1: then they've got to just keep adapting to that.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like you become not even driven by pleasure anymore,

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Speaker 2: but just by the maintaining the baseline, because if you

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Speaker 2: take it away, then you dip below baseline.

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Speaker 1: That's really interesting, that's really interesting, and that is a

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Speaker 1: very smart comment that is true, Like that one.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't from chats everyone that was me. That was all me.

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Speaker 1: That was real tip. And she's very smart. She knows

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Speaker 1: I think that we've fuck around. Yeah, I think that's true.

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Speaker 1: It's like I've got friends who functional alcoholics. I think

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Speaker 1: some people call it, and they're like, yeah, I have

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Speaker 1: to drink booze within about half an hour of getting

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Speaker 1: up or I can't do the day. And they don't

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Speaker 1: have thirty beers, but they'll have whatever it is, a

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Speaker 1: glass or two of something and that kind of settles

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Speaker 1: them down their nervous systems. Okay, they start to think

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Speaker 1: more clearly. And for them, Booze's breakfast, and booze is

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Speaker 1: like the stabilizer. Oh yeah, people don't you know, he's

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Speaker 1: a funny thing. I'll shut up after this. People don't

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Speaker 1: realize how fucking bad alcohol is. And I know that

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Speaker 1: seems like condumb things. The same people go, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: correlates with you know, like car crashes and this disease

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Speaker 1: and that. Yeah, it's there's new research coming out now.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Schuberman Andrew Human has been banging on about it.

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Speaker 1: That really like the upper limit, he says, not me,

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Speaker 1: but Andrew Huberman do a deep dive if you want

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Speaker 1: two glasses a week upper limit upper Yeah, so all that. Yeah,

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00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: so anyway, that's but it is an interesting question, is

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Speaker 1: like we we adapt and then eventually we need more

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Speaker 1: and more and more to get the same response, and

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Speaker 1: then eventually we may be an addict in the middle

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Speaker 1: of a fucking cycle that seems you know, impossible to

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Speaker 1: get out of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, social media. So the next question Chatter is asked,

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Speaker 2: is in what ways do social media and comparison culture

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Speaker 2: distort our sense of sufficiency.

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Speaker 1: That's a good question, isn't it. We should have chatters

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Speaker 1: as the third kind of if only chatters. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if we could teach chatters to chat with us. Says yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I think social media is a big driver of

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Speaker 1: comparison culture. And you know, we we compare ourselves with

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Speaker 1: ourselves with people who are not like us. We compare

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Speaker 1: ourselves with you know, twenty three year olds with phenomenal

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Speaker 1: fucking genetics and who are on every supplement known to man,

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Speaker 1: and who have got a professional you know whatever, lighting team,

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Speaker 1: photography team, and then they put out these perfect images

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Speaker 1: and perfect videos, not that they shouldn't, but like we

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Speaker 1: just you know. I think the only person you should

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Speaker 1: compare yourself to is you know, you from yesterday. That's it, you,

426
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: you from last week, you from last month. But it does,

427
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: it does look I'm not a social media hater. I'm

428
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: a social media user. I think the problem is not

429
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: social media, but the relationship that we have with social

430
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: media individually and also the ways in which social media. Remember,

431
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: social media is just a platform or a tool that

432
00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: teams people, organizations, individuals can use and then nobody has

433
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: to use any of it. Right, You don't need to

434
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: have an IG account or a Facebook account or a

435
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: whatever else account. You don't need to. If you hate it,

436
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: don't use it. But the truth is, if you use

437
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: it the right way, like we use it the right way,

438
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: I think you it can be a positive, not a

439
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: negative in your life. But when you are constantly scrolling, scrolling, scrolling,

440
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: looking at this person who's in your age group or

441
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: your field or you know, and you want to be

442
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: a version of that, well, when you want to be

443
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: a version of that, then you're not being a version

444
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: of you, you know. And so this is an identity piece.

445
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: Then we wrap our identity around someone or our intended

446
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: or hoped identity around somebody who isn't us, And that's

447
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 1: when you know. You wake up and you're forty and

448
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: you're like, fuck and I don't even know who I am.

449
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: That's because you've been trying to be someone else forever.

450
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's getting increasingly hard, though, to

451
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: use social media and have agency o when the algorithms

452
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 2: feed you what the algorithms want to feed you. And

453
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 2: second to that, if you're a creator, like a lot

454
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 2: of creators, people are just out there like puppets on strings.

455
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: I'm more and more seeing people that wouldn't think dancing,

456
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: like sixteen year olds on TikTok or just following trends

457
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 2: to get likes and things. And it's an odd thing

458
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 2: to see play out.

459
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: That is interesting because part of me, and this is

460
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: not always a good part of me, but part of

461
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: me is like, oh, well, don't fucking use it, don't dance,

462
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: don't do dumb shit. Right, But also I'm like you,

463
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: we're including me. We're all vulnerable and gullible, and we

464
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: all watch shit that we probably shouldn't watch. And we

465
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: know you can think you've got the strongest mind, you're

466
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: the most resilient. You're the most aware, self aware, situationally aware.

467
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 1: If you're watching dumb shit on social media, it's influencing you.

468
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter who you can be Eronstein, it's still

469
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: having an influence, right or missus Einstein. You know, they

470
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: say that missus Einstein was actually smarter than him. But

471
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: that's for another day, course of course. But yeah, that's that.

472
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: And I realized that too. I can go down a

473
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. I don't do it often, but I still

474
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: do it, and I'm like, fuck, I just wasted an hour,

475
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: and I did. I wasted an hour, you know, because

476
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: it is well. Also, I think that social media has

477
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: been a lot of it, and marketing and advertising too,

478
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: has been developed with neuroscientists. You know, a lot of

479
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: marketing agencies now have neuroscientists and psychologists and neuropsychologists in

480
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: their marketing and business development teams because they understand how

481
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: the brain works, and so they actually bring people in

482
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: to develop products and ideas that are targeted at hijacking

483
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: the brain of the person who's seeing the ad or

484
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: listening to the spiel. Yeah, that's pretty fucking Firstly, it's

485
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: not illegal. I wouldn't call it particularly ethical or moral.

486
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: But also I go, yep, fair game. I mean, your

487
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: job is literally a cellshit. Your job is not to

488
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: make the world a better place, although we would love that.

489
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: And if you think that, you know, most corporate organizations

490
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: are guided by values and morals. You don't know anything

491
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: about business because they're not. There's a few unicorns in

492
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: the space, but generally they care about the bottom line.

493
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: Actually deleted Facebook off of my phone last week, so

494
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 2: I've still got an instead at Facebook because of the

495
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 2: day that I woke up and watched two brutal live

496
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: murders like it was entertainment, and then it was just

497
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 2: that's all I was seeing, and then everybody's opinion and

498
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: I went, I don't I never I never want done.

499
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: I want this to be my all day long. Like Instagram,

500
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: I've curated to be comedians like all everyone I follows

501
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: Tomedy and it's fun. It makes me feel good. I've

502
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: done that really deliberately. But it's like a Facebook went

503
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: a while and I went, why don't want to be

504
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: opening this on my phone. It's like, I'm no, it's

505
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: no from me.

506
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: That's interesting. You know, there's a thing that I've done

507
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: over the last year one. I think that's a good

508
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: idea by you two. There's this thing I've done, which

509
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: is I won't watch anything anything it's a if it's

510
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: a movie, if it's a series, if it makes me

511
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: feel icky. Right, there are things that I'm like, oh, oh, like,

512
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: here's this special on this satanic cult that does that

513
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: cuts this and they offer upset. I'm like, fuck that,

514
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: I'm not watching that. I don't want that in my physiology.

515
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: I don't want that in my brain. I don't want

516
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: that to be something that I am investing energy in.

517
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: There's so much much evil, dark, horrible. Oh you got

518
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: to know what's going on. No you don't, No, you don't.

519
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: You don't need to know everything that's fucking going on.

520
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: And also me watching something that's mentally and emotionally disturbing

521
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: that I can't change something that's happening on a global level.

522
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: Me watching that, it's not a great idea. Why don't

523
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: I learn something? Why don't I go and help someone?

524
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: Why don't I watch something that makes me a better

525
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: human or potentially helps me to become a better human.

526
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: So I can't fight all the darkness, but I can

527
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: go and work in the light, I can go and

528
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: do some good shit. So let's do that. And there

529
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: I get halfway through some films, I'm like, nah, and

530
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: it's not a bad film, but I'm just like, there's

531
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: too much evil shit in I'm not talking about guys

532
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: run around shooting people. We know it's all pretend. We

533
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: know it happens, but this is all pretend. But there's

534
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: this dark undercurrent of all of this shit I don't

535
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: want to give any more attention to. But yeah, and

536
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: it makes me. It's funny because I watch this film

537
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: films start to finish, and I felt shit for about

538
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: a day and then I'm like, why do I feel

539
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: the way that I do? And it's cause I had

540
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: just exposed my brain and my mind and my energy

541
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: to this evil, dark shit for two hours voluntarily. Yeah,

542
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: And it was like that higher intelligence that we all have,

543
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: it was just saying to me, don't do that, Like

544
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: this is this is not a good on any level.

545
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: This is not a good use of your brain, or

546
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: your skills, or your whatever genius you have, or your energy.

547
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: This is not a good use of any of that.

548
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: Go focus on something that will help you or others.

549
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, there's been so many studies around priming. Priming

550
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: like with positive words and that priming people yes even yes,

551
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: like so quickly that they can't actually consciously read the words.

552
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: You flick these words or things up in front of

553
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: people and it changes them to being optimistic or feeling good.

554
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah about This.

555
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: Is why I don't. I never watched the news or

556
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: listen to it because let you hear the music, the

557
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: click baity titles, the doom and gloom, and I'm like, oh,

558
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: that shit is infective, infective and.

559
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: Weirdly, humans have attracted to bad news, not good news.

560
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: We've spoken about this before. They've tried news services which

561
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: were just half an hour of good news, great things

562
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: that are happening. It's all news, but it's good news,

563
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,479
Speaker 1: like no doom and gloom and devastation and evil. And

564
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: they didn't work, Like they failed, you know, they didn't

565
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: get the audience, they didn't get the sponsorship, they didn't

566
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: get the traction, and they just but you bring up

567
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: all the evil, dark, doom and gloom, chaos, mayhem, madness,

568
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: you know, and win a winter chicken dinner. Everyone's leaning

569
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: forward in their fucking seat. At ten past six with

570
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: their fucking chicken thigh and their pumpkins co and yeah,

571
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: get it up. Look at this. Oh look how many

572
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: people are dying over here? Can you turn it up? Brian? Fuck,

573
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: I get it, get it. You've got to be informed.

574
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I don't know. There's no like

575
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: ah ah. And when I watch, when I watch anything

576
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: where I don't know, I don't don't go there. I

577
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,479
Speaker 1: just get I get quite upset when I see people

578
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: who can't defend themselves, you know, in whatever it is.

579
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: If it might just not just but it might be

580
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: something big, something global, or it might be in a

581
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: kid getting attacked, or I'm like, oh fuck, I don't

582
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: It's not that I don't care. It's like that I

583
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: care too much. And by the way, that child's now

584
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: not here anymore. I can't fix it. I can't undo it.

585
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: So Yeah, I think broadly speaking, we need to be

586
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: just as we need to be careful what we feed

587
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: our body, we need to be careful what we feed

588
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: our mind. Yeah, because you kind of become to an

589
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: extent what you focus on.

590
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now we're exposed to it twenty four to seven.

591
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: It's not like the six o'clock nightly news or the

592
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: daily newspaper. It's twenty four to seven primed and then

593
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: reinforced by the algorithms that go, oh, you're interested in that,

594
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 2: have more of it and more of it.

595
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, really good.

596
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 2: I think it's really good to be aware of that.

597
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: Let's do maybe, let's do maybe two more quazis all right,

598
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: I'm thinking all three. Let's see how we go.

599
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: Personal impact here is one of the most common warning

600
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: signs that someone's drive has tipped into self sabotage or burnout.

601
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: Okay, let me just what are the most common warning

602
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: signs that someone's drive Okay, I think when this is

603
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: off the top of the head, So I want your

604
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: answer as well. Most common warning signs that someone's drive

605
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: has tipped into self sabotage or burnout. Well, I would

606
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: think when there's no balance, So when it's only work

607
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: or it's only you know, and it's just go, go go,

608
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: and it's obsession and when whatever you're doing, it's like

609
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: people have said to me at times that I'm obsessed,

610
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: and I understand why they would say that, and maybe

611
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: there have been times when I was a little obsessed,

612
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: but I just feel like I'm busy, and for the

613
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: most part, in the middle of my busyness is joy,

614
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 1: is growth, is fun? Is laughter? Is learning? I think

615
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: it depends on the outcome of whatever that person is doing.

616
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 1: What is the emotional and psychological and maybe sociological outcome.

617
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: Is the outcome bad? Is there something bad happening because

618
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: they are so driven and so focused and so perhaps

619
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: in your eyes obsessed, is there something bad happening? So

620
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: I think like our results will tell us, the outcomes

621
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: will tell us whether or not perhaps what that person

622
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: is doing is being done in a healthy or an

623
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 1: unhealthy way. And I think also maybe for you share,

624
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 1: when people can't seem to see another point of view,

625
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: it's like no, this is no, this is how it's done,

626
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: and this is and now all of a sudden they're

627
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: unteachable and they're not open. But they love to pride

628
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: themselves in the fact that they're objective and they're all

629
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: of these things, but they're not really. So I think,

630
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: you know, also being able to hit the pause button

631
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: for a moment and you know, step back and for

632
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: a moment, I mean maybe a day or two and

633
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: just not do any of that stuff. And what do

634
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: you like when you're not doing it? What do you

635
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: like when you're not? You know? It's like I wrote

636
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: a poster quite a while or a few months ago

637
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: about fuck all days. You know, I have just have

638
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: days days of fuck a, What are you doing? Fuck all?

639
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: Are you being productive? No? Are you building or creating anything? No?

640
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: Are you solving any problems? No? Good for you. I

641
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: just think we all need And I've had a few

642
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: in the last couple of weeks because I've been a

643
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: bit crooked, and part of me is like, you're so

644
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: lazy to get up, don't do I am. I shut

645
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: the fuck up. It's like for me to just do

646
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: not much has been like healing and therapeutic, but I'm

647
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with it. But when I do it, I actually

648
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: benefit from it.

649
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 2: Our relationship, like having an awareness on our relationship with

650
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: the sacrifices and when that shifts and the mindset around that.

651
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: So there's been there's times where I can be really

652
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 2: flat out busy and super productive and I'm happy to

653
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 2: sacrifice everything I sacrifice, and then it can tip into

654
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 2: times where I noticed that I'm a lot more negative

655
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 2: and I have less resilience, and I'm a little bit

656
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: bitter about the sacrifices because now it's gone beyond choice

657
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 2: into that place of I have to. Like I said before,

658
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 2: it's almost that it's gone from chasing the good stuff

659
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 2: to being the baseline and not wanting to dip below it.

660
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: So it's just I think it's and I reckon that's

661
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: hard to because you're the only one in the middle

662
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 2: of that. So it's really hard. Like you've created warning signs.

663
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, it's like you've created a personal prison, like

664
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: just you live in. It's like I'm in this self

665
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: created emotional and psychological prison and I don't know how

666
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: to get out of it now because this is where

667
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: I operate.

668
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think I've talked about that a bit

669
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 2: over the last year or so. But I'm feeling because

670
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: I'm perimenopausal and I'm like a fucking different person every day.

671
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 2: Sometimes lately, I feel like I dip in and out

672
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 2: of that. Like I feel there's days where I just

673
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 2: don't have the resilience and I'm a bit snarky, and

674
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, interesting that you're snarky, is like I'm looking

675
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 2: for things to be snarky about and not snarky. Two

676
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 2: people but just I can see it in how I

677
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: might internally react to things. That's why I got rid

678
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: of shit things off my Facebook. It was like, okay,

679
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 2: I need less of that because it's evoking reactions.

680
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: You know what I think you should do? This would

681
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: be fucking hilarious. This is something I really should share

682
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: with you off the podcast, but I love our listeners,

683
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: so fuck it, I'm going to share it with you now.

684
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: I would love to do this, but I can't because

685
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm not a woman. But what would be funny? But no,

686
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: you know, there's no self help or personal growth value

687
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: at all. So get to get a graph, you know,

688
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: with an X and a Y access so horizontal, vertical,

689
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: and across the bottom you have wake up, So first

690
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: is like wake up, let's say six am. And then

691
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: right across to when you go to bed to bed,

692
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: say I don't know whatever it is nine pm. And

693
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 1: then so you have the times hourly times across the bottom,

694
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: and then on the why you have all of these

695
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: different emotional states at different times through the day, ranging

696
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: from joy to I want to fucking kill someone? Right,

697
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: How would that would make a funny graphic? Because I

698
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 1: feel like with you there are times when I call

699
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: you or you call me and it's like your energy

700
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: is off the chart, like you're laughing, you're having fun,

701
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: you're happy. And then other times not not terrible, but

702
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: it's like you want to punch someone in the face,

703
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: and I go, you want to punch someone? Don't You go? Yes,

704
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: I want to punch someone in the face. And I go,

705
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 1: what's happened? You go, I don't know. I'm like, okay, sorry,

706
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: you know, it's just I'm like, ops. It's like, if

707
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 1: I'm angry, I can tell you exactly why I'm angry

708
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: what's going on. Or if I'm happy, it's like something

709
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: happened and I can go this is this is what

710
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: I feel and this is why I feel it. I

711
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 1: go to you, what do you feel like I'm fucking angry?

712
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm like, Kate, why, Like I don't know.

713
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: I follow this lady on Insta, Jane Sharp Jane with

714
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: why Everybody Jane shaps. She's so funny. She dresses up

715
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: with a version of herself. I'll show you there's a

716
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 2: version of herself with smeared makeup, lipstick, and per talking

717
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 2: to perimenopause. There she is, Oh god, and she does

718
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 2: these skits where perimenopause swoons in and carries on and

719
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 2: just derails her. And then she's talking to the normal,

720
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 2: normally dressed, appropriate looking version of us. It's so funny,

721
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: but it's so true. It's just like, oh, oh, you

722
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: wake up one day and go, oh good. We're grumpy

723
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 2: for absolutely no reason. We're exhausted, we're tired, and we're snarky,

724
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: and now we've got to go and be happy.

725
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, there isn't a reason, but we

726
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: don't know what the reason is even. I have that

727
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: sometimes a lot, but every now and every now and

728
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: then I feel a little saddie macsad stuff. Not like

729
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: I want to, you know, if I can stay in

730
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: bed for three days sad, but like it's sad. And

731
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, not not often, but the last year or

732
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,919
Speaker 1: two I'm like, and I think it's maybe I don't

733
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: know underlying stuff. Maybe I got that, Maybe I got that.

734
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,399
Speaker 1: Is there one more question that you want to open

735
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: the door on?

736
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: What about about how does tying self worth to achievement

737
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 2: affect relationships and emotional well being?

738
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: How does tying self worth to achievement? Okay, well, I

739
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: think when we tie self worth to achievement, then basically

740
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: the better our achievements that you know, this is suggesting

741
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,280
Speaker 1: the higher self worth, the better achievement. There's a positive

742
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: correlation there, and I think that is true to a point.

743
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: I think when we do bigger and better things, we're

744
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 1: a bit more positive, we're a bit more confident, we

745
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: think we're a bit better, which we may or may

746
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: not be. But I definitely think having you know, when

747
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: when we fail at something, or we think we've failed

748
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: at something or we think we created a worse outcome

749
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: than we should have, that effects and self worth, you know,

750
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: individual perception, confidence, all of those things. And I just

751
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: think that because that is an emotional impact, that's psychological

752
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: impact that spills into relationships, and as this question asks

753
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: emotional wellbeing generally, I think the challenge is to try

754
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: to find self worth without having to find it through outcomes,

755
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, without trying to find it, or without being

756
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: dependent on producing good results or getting better or growing

757
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: or like not everything needs to be that Like, I

758
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: think there are periods of time where there could be

759
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: a three month period in your life where just fucking

760
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, staying in a holding pattern is quite the

761
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: achievement because you feel like dog shit. And like, for me,

762
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: a practical example of that is the last two weeks

763
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:28,439
Speaker 1: where I've felt really quite bad every day. I still

764
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: in my ten thousand steps, and I'm not saying oh,

765
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: so if you're crooked, I'm not saying anything. Just for

766
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 1: me just going it was just good for my mind

767
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: and for my kind of emotional state to go and

768
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: do this thing. And also I'm having days where I'm

769
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 1: not training in the gym, which is very weird for me,

770
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: very atypical. But and then there are times when you know,

771
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: and this is hard for me because I am somewhat

772
00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: addictive in personality around certain things where I go, oh,

773
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: I can't you know, I'm going here, I'm going there,

774
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: so I can't lift weights for two days and there's

775
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 1: nothing in my brain that wants that, right, But I go, well,

776
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: it's just you're at a two day conference or your whatever,

777
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: you know, and I just can't. And so being okay

778
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: with that, and being okay with not being super productive

779
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: and not being super successful and just being you and

780
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: where your self worth doesn't have to tie into an

781
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: external thing or outcome. It's hard because that's the way

782
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: we kind of feel good about ourselves is generally with

783
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 1: stuff that we do. But what if you just felt

784
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: good about yourself because you're a good human.

785
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 2: I think relationships are the antidote to all of it,

786
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 2: because you think about when you are with good people,

787
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,720
Speaker 2: nothing matters. Like when I was sitting on top of

788
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 2: the Himalayas with a bunch of people, not one of

789
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: my thoughts were about anything I needed to have or

790
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 2: be or do. It was just you're just around good

791
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 2: people and all of Really, a lot of the drivers

792
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: that are pushing this behavior unconsciously within us revolve around

793
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: acceptance or belonging power, which is a dynamic that can

794
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 2: only exist within a relationship. I need to be better

795
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 2: so people will accept me or appreciate me or want me.

796
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,879
Speaker 2: And when you're just around good people, none of that,

797
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 2: none of that is activated.

798
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: I have a problem with that. With that, I feel

799
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: like because I've always felt like even though I don't

800
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: seem like it. I know I don't sound like it,

801
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: but I've felt not enough a lot. So I feel

802
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: like if I'm like, I don't want anyone to see

803
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: me when I'm sick. Not because I have a problem

804
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: with being sick or I want to pretend I'm an

805
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: alpha male, but I just feel like, well, I'm not

806
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: any value to them, so there's no use being around

807
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: me because I'm no value. I want to be value

808
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: to me, and I know that's not a healthy thing.

809
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: And I know exactly what you're thinking is you know,

810
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: but yeah, you're right. I literally will almost push people away.

811
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: I don't mean to. I'm not very good at letting

812
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: people nurture me, but I want to nurture and serve others.

813
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: But I'm pretty shit at the receiving end of that.

814
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that doesn't work.

815
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: Oh, I know, it's like I'm good at it.

816
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,760
Speaker 2: I know. Don't do that because you can't be because

817
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, otherways talked about that whole commodity thing,

818
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 2: like when I feel like a commodity because of what

819
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 2: happened when I was young, and people give you stuff

820
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 2: so they can do stuff or take stuff or you know,

821
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 2: like so I've got this real thix stuff. Yes, So

822
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: if you like, you don't just get friendship or connection.

823
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 2: You have to do this and this and be this

824
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 2: in order to have it. It comes in.

825
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: There's a condition or a strategy.

826
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, condition, So I think I can't remember where I

827
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: was going with that, but.

828
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: But the bottom line is let people.

829
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, let people love you, because you know, don't be

830
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 2: a commodity, because you're making yourself a commodity harps, and

831
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to be of value to people. And what

832
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 2: if you just are by letting them have something to

833
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: care about. What's the point of having a connection with

834
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: someone or a friendship on any level if they can't

835
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,240
Speaker 2: care about you, well.

836
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: If times great, shat everyone times up.

837
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 2: If you don't let people care about you, then they

838
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 2: like you're taking something away from them.

839
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: That's really I know, I know you're exactly right. I'm wrong,

840
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: corner a Hondo. I know it's something I need to

841
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: deal with, and you are uncomfortably correct, So fuck you

842
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: and all your correctness.

843
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 2: That chatters. That wasn't from chadders, guys, that was from no.

844
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go there. That's it. We're not

845
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 1: We're not putting this up. Yes we are. Hey, don't

846
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: forget on the Goldie. Come and see me, like you know,

847
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: Mum's hip hop operation and you know I'm lonely and

848
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 1: you know all that stuff. Go to the website, click

849
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: on education, TIF, what do you want to promote? Feel free?

850
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: Open the door. Just just spook something.

851
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know nothing. I'll be on the Gold

852
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 2: Coast on the thirtieth of October. If people want to

853
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 2: come to that event. That's not my event.

854
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: Oh you will, you will, you will. And you're speaking,

855
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: you're you're doing your thing. You're up there, just bloody

856
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 1: rock in the world. All right, being muried. Thank you

857
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: back in therapy for me. See ya.