1
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,399
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Mentor. I'm Mark Boris Dove Kleiber. Welcome

2
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,640
Speaker 1: to the Mental. Mate. I've gotta be careful because I

3
00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,360
Speaker 1: just did another podcast of straight talk, so I want

4
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:14,800
Speaker 1: to make sure I got you on the right podcast.

5
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:15,400
Speaker 1: This is the Mental.

6
00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:17,000
Speaker 2: Thanks having me, Matt.

7
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,799
Speaker 1: And you're a mate of a made of mine. We

8
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,080
Speaker 1: have a good mate in common and he's made huge

9
00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,160
Speaker 1: recommendations about you. Mate, you have a lot to live

10
00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,800
Speaker 1: up to here. Maybe let's just kick it off. It

11
00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,080
Speaker 1: says in the in your bio in my bio that

12
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,200
Speaker 1: my guys revenue that you're a director like as in film. Yes,

13
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:38,760
Speaker 1: maybe just give us a bit of an insight into that.

14
00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,040
Speaker 1: So you know, what is a film director as a

15
00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,920
Speaker 1: business person? What are you trying to achieve? Or is

16
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 1: it just some passionate some passion thing.

17
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 2: Look, I think if I just might.

18
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 1: Just interrupt, I have just let's live aside your latest

19
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,280
Speaker 1: passion project for the moment, just talk about generally, what's

20
00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 1: it like being a film director and you work for yourself,

21
00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you're working for Channel nine or something,

22
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:04,640
Speaker 1: what's that like?

23
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:11,480
Speaker 2: Look at changes changes daily? Really, I started off directing

24
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,760
Speaker 2: commercials probably about thirty years ago.

25
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,919
Speaker 1: Wow, and very differently as an advertising person as in advertising.

26
00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,400
Speaker 1: But you're working. Were you the advertising person or you

27
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,319
Speaker 1: were the person the advertising crew got in to do

28
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:25,720
Speaker 1: the ad?

29
00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,240
Speaker 2: I was there. I was from the production company that

30
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,680
Speaker 2: would come in to direct the commercial, so that I'd

31
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,560
Speaker 2: get a script of paper, piece of paper with a

32
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,399
Speaker 2: script on it, and we grow that client service, client service,

33
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:38,399
Speaker 2: client face exactly.

34
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:40,760
Speaker 1: Maybe you need maybe be good to I don't even

35
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,720
Speaker 1: know if this still exists, but maybe you can explain

36
00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,880
Speaker 1: how advertising agencies worked twenty thirty years ago. I remember

37
00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 1: I dealt with a single to know you'll be maytherep

38
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,200
Speaker 1: back in the too early two thousands, I think it

39
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,639
Speaker 1: was I was running. It was the boss, or actually

40
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 1: Brussel Tape was the boss, and I don't know what

41
00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 1: seeing was doing there, but and they would pitch an ad,

42
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,800
Speaker 1: along with a whole lot of other advertising agencies in

43
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,360
Speaker 1: those days, and we chose them to do the ad

44
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,680
Speaker 1: based on a number of things. And the next thing

45
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 1: I was dealing with a production crew who happened to

46
00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,440
Speaker 1: be part of the organization.

47
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,480
Speaker 2: Right is that it what roughly roughly back in the

48
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,800
Speaker 2: day when I first started off, I started as the

49
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,440
Speaker 2: as basically the shit kicker, you know, the guy, the

50
00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,280
Speaker 2: kid that went and got coffee and everything. And back

51
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 2: in the day, the singers and those sort of guys

52
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,799
Speaker 2: would have their long lunches on a Friday down at

53
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,359
Speaker 2: the wharf or wherever they were and Matchew Velli's Mackew Velly's,

54
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 2: and there'd be phone. The story goes, there used to

55
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,160
Speaker 2: be the phone connections underneath the seats of the table,

56
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 2: so there'd be a phone they're sitting there, so they'd

57
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:50,680
Speaker 2: be getting on the drink in the afternoon or a

58
00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 2: Friday afternoon. And that's how advertising ran, and a lot

59
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,760
Speaker 2: of stuff ran on handshack deals and it was a

60
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,600
Speaker 2: really I think it was a really creat time. You know,

61
00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,480
Speaker 2: you're at the time of your Mojo's.

62
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:12,960
Speaker 1: You just might explain that Morris Morrison and Mojo was

63
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,799
Speaker 1: the name of two guys, guys, two guys names put together,

64
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:16,359
Speaker 1: that's right.

65
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,000
Speaker 2: And they had they had a very famous advertising agency

66
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,600
Speaker 2: that that sort of specialized in the classic jingles. Yeah,

67
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 2: you know, you can get it sliding, you can get

68
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,639
Speaker 2: it milkyccow. Matter of fact, they've got it now.

69
00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, though that was it was a beer brand yeah,

70
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:38,760
Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, And and from those days things things

71
00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,720
Speaker 1: were really free flowing. There was a there was a

72
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,960
Speaker 1: lot of money in the market, so TV commercials, it

73
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:49,160
Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't wrong to have a million plus on

74
00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 1: a thirty second commercial. To spend a million plus. Yeah,

75
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 1: well you're right actually, because I couldn't believe because I

76
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 1: had the wizard business of the day and Kerry Kerry

77
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,200
Speaker 1: Packer was my part partner at the time, time that

78
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,520
Speaker 1: we need to get one of these agencies to write

79
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,960
Speaker 1: an ad for us, and like, but when I got

80
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 1: confronted with the cost, only died. It was like, I

81
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,720
Speaker 1: think a thirty second ad that we were going to

82
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 1: run for you know, like just like the September period

83
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 1: when you know, auctions sort of become much more popular

84
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,839
Speaker 1: because the winter traditionally in those days when estate would

85
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,599
Speaker 1: drop off, and we're a lending company, so you know,

86
00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,359
Speaker 1: we're trying to advertise into that environment. Was this is

87
00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,400
Speaker 1: in two thousand, you know, this is the year two thousand,

88
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,839
Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty thousand dollars. For me, I just like,

89
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,279
Speaker 1: what the hell I mean? It was my first introduction

90
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,440
Speaker 1: to that. Actually, I had to an early one. I

91
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,880
Speaker 1: had where I funded myself was a mob called Colins

92
00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,640
Speaker 1: and Crew and it was much too. But when I

93
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,839
Speaker 1: got to the big organizations who did everything, oh my god,

94
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,719
Speaker 1: and there was no talent. I was the talent less

95
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,719
Speaker 1: so to speak. I mean, it wasn't really talent, but

96
00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,919
Speaker 1: I was the talent, and so we weren't paying for

97
00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 1: any talent. It's just a production. That was the biggest

98
00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,960
Speaker 1: cost was it was like it doesn't exist, say, though

99
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 1: not so much.

100
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:12,120
Speaker 2: No, It's interesting the expectations still there for these multi

101
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,479
Speaker 2: million dollar film shoots, but the budgets have come right down. Advertisers,

102
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 2: you know, with the economy and the stretches that are

103
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 2: inherent with that, the numbers have come right down. And

104
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:30,960
Speaker 2: it's it's a shame too, because creativity creatively, that side

105
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,440
Speaker 2: of the business has also sort of diminished a little bit.

106
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 2: A lot of the really great copywriters.

107
00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,720
Speaker 1: Or the people write the words, people.

108
00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,400
Speaker 2: Who write the words or come up with the concepts,

109
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,560
Speaker 2: that sort of that's gone down as well. And I

110
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:48,920
Speaker 2: think it's just through TV TV production and the lessening

111
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,280
Speaker 2: of how all that's sort of come together now.

112
00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,800
Speaker 1: And because TV is not as you're right, because there's

113
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,400
Speaker 1: so many other alternative places to advertise correct Yeah, fast

114
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:04,480
Speaker 1: and quick fast quick. That's where basically give it gives

115
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 1: you class that didn't work, Let's do another one. Because

116
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,600
Speaker 1: I was always terrified if this ad doesn't work, I've

117
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,480
Speaker 1: sunk a whole lot of do into it and it's

118
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,760
Speaker 1: not going to work. That means it's just it's just

119
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,640
Speaker 1: lost money. And there was a lot of Therefore, there

120
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,920
Speaker 1: was a lot of pressure on the creatives to get

121
00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,919
Speaker 1: the right messaging, and the messaging usually was as a

122
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,040
Speaker 1: result of the right briefing. Yes, but if you didn't know,

123
00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,640
Speaker 1: say something like me, I'm not a marketing guy or

124
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 1: an advertising guy. In order for me to brief you correctly, yes,

125
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,479
Speaker 1: I need to sort of not only understand my marketplace,

126
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,240
Speaker 1: because it wasn't the same level of analytics around markets

127
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,919
Speaker 1: or your or your customers that we have today what

128
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,279
Speaker 1: they like and feed them while they like. There wasn't

129
00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,520
Speaker 1: that same sort of analytics. It was more like gut reaction.

130
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,080
Speaker 1: And at the same time, in order to brief you,

131
00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: I needed to have a bit of experience with the creative,

132
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,680
Speaker 1: because I can't brief a creative if I don't know

133
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,760
Speaker 1: anying about creative. How did you used to reconcile that

134
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,599
Speaker 1: sort of stuff as the production guy.

135
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,599
Speaker 2: Look, we were sort of we were always from the

136
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,400
Speaker 2: outside of the agency, so we'd the agency would deal

137
00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,480
Speaker 2: with someone like you. Then they'd come up with the

138
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 2: concept of the commercial, and then that would then get

139
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,720
Speaker 2: briefed out to us. Now, before it got briefed out

140
00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,240
Speaker 2: to us, a lot of the times that goes into research.

141
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,920
Speaker 2: So they spend bunches and bunches of money in research

142
00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 2: and putting an idea, and that goes out to people.

143
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 2: They get a whole bunch of people in a room

144
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,440
Speaker 2: paying fifty bucks and a cup of coffee, and they

145
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 2: literally have the big say on huge campaigns. And it

146
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,680
Speaker 2: was really quite I always found that quite a strange

147
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 2: thing because I don't think it was always necessarily a

148
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,320
Speaker 2: great cross section of the community that is giving their feedback.

149
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,480
Speaker 1: So and also depend on the questions that God asked. Absolutely,

150
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,080
Speaker 1: so you could sort of structure the whole process if

151
00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 1: you're the person asking the group of people. So basically

152
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,000
Speaker 1: what used to happen, as I recall, is that you

153
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 1: would pay It's just had people one hundred bucks and

154
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 1: a few beers in a pizza or something. Like that,

155
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,520
Speaker 1: and there might be twenty people or ten people in

156
00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 1: the room come into the room, and then the advertising

157
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:23,400
Speaker 1: agency who's won the pitch with the messaging yes, tries

158
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,440
Speaker 1: the messaging out onto the people in the room, and

159
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 1: a couple of storyboards yep, a couple story boards yep.

160
00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,880
Speaker 1: And long time, a lot of times they used to

161
00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,040
Speaker 1: get filmed and recorded correct, and you would try to

162
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,960
Speaker 1: sort of test out your messaging idea with all the

163
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,840
Speaker 1: people in the room. And I wanted to myself, well, hang,

164
00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,040
Speaker 1: how do I know that this is a good cross

165
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,120
Speaker 1: section of the community is going to listen to me?

166
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:47,440
Speaker 2: I never understood it.

167
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,040
Speaker 1: Did you ever think to yourself sometimes when they gave

168
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:55,160
Speaker 1: you the brief ready to produce direct, because you were

169
00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,280
Speaker 1: to direct the characters or the talent that has been

170
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 1: chosen for the ad. You used to think yourself, these

171
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,080
Speaker 1: guys got it wrong. Did you just reflect the litters?

172
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 1: You just say, no, that's my job. I'm just going

173
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,200
Speaker 1: to produce something looks good, sounds good.

174
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,680
Speaker 2: Oh look. The politically correct thing to say was no,

175
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,320
Speaker 2: they were always right, But the reality was yeah, fuck

176
00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,239
Speaker 2: all the time, inc script.

177
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,560
Speaker 1: And you'd just be like, what this is?

178
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 2: This is crazy, and then you try and fix it,

179
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 2: you or you're trying to all the time. Absolutely, absolutely,

180
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,120
Speaker 2: you'd always sort of do a take for you know,

181
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,160
Speaker 2: I'd always do a take for the script, So the

182
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,760
Speaker 2: one for the script, straight off the script to the

183
00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,240
Speaker 2: client and then you go, okay, cool, Hey how about

184
00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 2: we try this. I'll go to the actor and say, hey,

185
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,840
Speaker 2: let's just do something a little bit different. You know,

186
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 2: sometimes it falls flat on its ass. But then sometimes

187
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,960
Speaker 2: the creative the agency will go, oh my god, that's

188
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,000
Speaker 2: that's fantastical. The client's just like, oh, that's that's the

189
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,840
Speaker 2: best thing. And you learn you learn tactics too in that,

190
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 2: you know, in those years of I remember an old

191
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,560
Speaker 2: director told me, told me a bit of information. Once

192
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,600
Speaker 2: that's stayed with me. It's put your idea into the

193
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 2: client's head and get them to tell it to you.

194
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:05,760
Speaker 2: That's the art.

195
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 1: So again, who's the client though in this case, so the.

196
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,480
Speaker 2: Client would be the client would be you for the

197
00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,679
Speaker 2: one spending money, but the one spending money. So if

198
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,400
Speaker 2: you get in there and you sort of talk and

199
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:15,080
Speaker 2: you do your dad.

200
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,520
Speaker 1: Because I would turn up to the ad my organization

201
00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,280
Speaker 1: with someone from organization would always turn up to the

202
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 1: ad whether I was in it or not, because they're watching.

203
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,360
Speaker 1: It's just so the audience knows. Is so, so you're

204
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,200
Speaker 1: the director, yes, you would say, oh, there's the client,

205
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,840
Speaker 1: there's wizards, the clients or yellow brick road. I'm going

206
00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,520
Speaker 1: to get over and have a talk to this dude. Yeah,

207
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,600
Speaker 1: and knowing already what the brief is, knowing already what

208
00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,959
Speaker 1: sort of messaging they're trying to they're going to because

209
00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,960
Speaker 1: you've got the script in front of you, which is

210
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,520
Speaker 1: usually written by them, so you're thinking to yourself, I

211
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,640
Speaker 1: might actually give this dude an alternative.

212
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,720
Speaker 2: You've got to be real careful because you know you

213
00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,760
Speaker 2: don't want to step on the agency and undermine them.

214
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,520
Speaker 2: But at the same time, you've you've probably met you've

215
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,560
Speaker 2: probably all met before in a pre production meeting, so

216
00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 2: you've you've broken that bit of ice. And usually I

217
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,680
Speaker 2: always like the way that I work, which is different

218
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,320
Speaker 2: than all other you know, different directors work different ways.

219
00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 2: But the way I really like to work was as

220
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,319
Speaker 2: a collaboration and always have my ideas working with the creative,

221
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,440
Speaker 2: the agency creatives ideas, so then you're all working together

222
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,200
Speaker 2: to come up with the best possible solution and the

223
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:25,160
Speaker 2: best possible.

224
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,439
Speaker 1: Outcome for an ad.

225
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,959
Speaker 2: Sometimes they you know, sometimes you hit them out of

226
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,400
Speaker 2: the park and you you know, you've short walking a

227
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 2: handshake in the French riviera, and sometimes yeah, you get

228
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:36,600
Speaker 2: panned by your peers.

229
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,400
Speaker 1: And what did you learn that? What did you learn

230
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,679
Speaker 1: in that environment? How many years you spend in that environment?

231
00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,000
Speaker 1: Far out it's probably a good twenty five years, best

232
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,880
Speaker 1: part of your career, best part of my career. Yeah,

233
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,720
Speaker 1: and what are the learnings from that that you've taken

234
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:52,760
Speaker 1: into what you're doing today?

235
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,760
Speaker 2: You know, what you learn to be resilient. It's it's

236
00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,160
Speaker 2: a really tough industry because it's you know, I liking

237
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,600
Speaker 2: it to acting or something like that, where you get

238
00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,120
Speaker 2: a script. It's not just your you're getting the script.

239
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,920
Speaker 2: There's three other directors getting the script as well. You're

240
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,200
Speaker 2: getting paid to do the pitch. And then you've got

241
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 2: to put together this document called a treatment, which is

242
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 2: thirty pages of words and pictures, and it becomes a

243
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 2: creative writing exercise, even more so than.

244
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 1: The actual.

245
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 2: Execution of a of the pictures. So you've got to

246
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:31,640
Speaker 2: go through that whole process and then you you know,

247
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,080
Speaker 2: you work for you can work for weeks on a

248
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,800
Speaker 2: pitch and then they just go, you know, sorry, you.

249
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:35,800
Speaker 1: Can get the other guy got it.

250
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 2: The other guy got it, and he's like, fuck, okay, next, next, next, next,

251
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,280
Speaker 2: and it's got And nowadays it's got harder and harder

252
00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 2: because a lot of overseas directors. You know, there's a

253
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,560
Speaker 2: lot of work in America obviously with what's going on

254
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,280
Speaker 2: over there now, a lot of the expat Aussies are

255
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,959
Speaker 2: coming back here and so these commercials that are becoming

256
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,000
Speaker 2: less or less have got more people's hands going up.

257
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,400
Speaker 2: I'm ready to do it, so you can get a

258
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,920
Speaker 2: you know, the better part of a Hollywood direct attic series, Yeah,

259
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,839
Speaker 2: to do it. Beer out fuck, yeah, it has all

260
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:05,120
Speaker 2: the time.

261
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially beer ads because they paid, especially beert and

262
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 1: or gambling ads. Yep, they play, they play well, pay.

263
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,560
Speaker 2: Well, they're in. They're in the big thing now. Yeah. Yeah.

264
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,120
Speaker 1: So what did you do post directing?

265
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't really stopped directing.

266
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 1: I've still been advertising.

267
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 2: So post advertising, I'm still I've still got one toe

268
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 2: in the water with advertising, and I still really enjoy it.

269
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,160
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed the people and the camaraderie and the

270
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,960
Speaker 2: group you know, with the cruise and what have you.

271
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:40,200
Speaker 2: A couple of years ago I got asked to do

272
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:47,479
Speaker 2: a documentary on the world's fastest ocean racing yachts Comanche

273
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:52,160
Speaker 2: Wild Height's eleven, which as an Australian ye and it

274
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,440
Speaker 2: sort of turned into it started as a bit of

275
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,120
Speaker 2: a it was going to be a series like a

276
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,079
Speaker 2: Drive to Survive, and it turned into a featured documentary

277
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,640
Speaker 2: and it's now turned into a little bit of a

278
00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,440
Speaker 2: family story. In the tragedy from the City to Hobat

279
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,560
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety eight, we've just.

280
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,120
Speaker 1: Finished that, and then you've just finished that.

281
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:10,920
Speaker 2: We've just finished it.

282
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,960
Speaker 1: Is that the one where John Dean passed away?

283
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 2: Correct?

284
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,760
Speaker 1: They never just they never found his body because he

285
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,480
Speaker 1: was what boat was he? And do you remember yeah,

286
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:28,080
Speaker 1: Winston Churchill, mister Churchill and John's had two sons, correct,

287
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,520
Speaker 1: Peter Nathan and Peter. Nathan and Peter yep, And I

288
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,680
Speaker 1: remember Nathan quite well. Peter was much younger, but Nathan

289
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,960
Speaker 1: would have been like eighteen or something around that age.

290
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,480
Speaker 1: His documentary is all about them. Oh really, yeah, Oh

291
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 1: that's pretty cool.

292
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. And John Winner, you know John Winning.

293
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 1: I know John Winning well and John's from Comanche.

294
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,240
Speaker 2: Correct, he bought it. So that's the story of how

295
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 2: they got the boat, and then they brought it back

296
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 2: and then yeah, and then the story of them.

297
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,200
Speaker 1: Bringing the boys, Young John winning of course yep. Herman, yes, herman, yes.

298
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,400
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, as opposed to Woody mate.

299
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, my neighbor actually yeah right, he grew up Aross

300
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,920
Speaker 1: the road for me, yeah right, yeah, yeah, and he's

301
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 1: not they the family doesn't know that house anymore but done.

302
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,920
Speaker 1: They sold him for some years ago. But yeah, yeah,

303
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,640
Speaker 1: and actually he's been on my podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

304
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,480
Speaker 1: it has been on the podcast That's Mad. So but

305
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:21,480
Speaker 1: you were you sailor.

306
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,840
Speaker 2: I've been a sailor before, Like I wasn't not a

307
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,960
Speaker 2: competitive sailor in that realm, and that was quite interesting

308
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,160
Speaker 2: because I got I pretty much got thrust straight into

309
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,480
Speaker 2: the sailing world. And if you know the sailor Fraturn,

310
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,520
Speaker 2: it's pretty closed up book and trying to deal with

311
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,160
Speaker 2: and interviewing people, you know, like Ian Murray, who's an

312
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,720
Speaker 2: incredible bloke, but all they're trying to get a story

313
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 2: out of her mate. It was shut It was a

314
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:48,080
Speaker 2: shut shot.

315
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 1: Murray was from Straight to which won the Sydney Order

316
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:58,120
Speaker 1: defended City have but I defended the America's Curry's Cup.

317
00:15:58,280 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 1: Did infend it, will win it?

318
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 2: I can't remember now he defended He've defended over in Fremantle,

319
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 2: over in w a too much fanfare, but I was there.

320
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 2: That was fall on and he's just the story. So

321
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 2: he's got unbelievable.

322
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,160
Speaker 1: So In became a boat builder for a while there

323
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 1: he did.

324
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,080
Speaker 2: He's got his fingers in everything.

325
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,680
Speaker 1: In fact, I brought a boat from him many many years.

326
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 1: Agoor my son did, one of my sons did. He

327
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 1: was good? He was so Who was the guy produced

328
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 1: to wing kill?

329
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:26,480
Speaker 2: Ben LExEN?

330
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,960
Speaker 1: Ben LExEN, he's been les alive? No, No, he's passedway Okay.

331
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:36,080
Speaker 1: Murray and Ben LExEN were and were sort of collaborators

332
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 1: in relation to the defense. Yes, and and I soon

333
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,320
Speaker 1: recall that there was a well known guy, one of

334
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,600
Speaker 1: Bonds guys. He was a chairman of Bond Corporation actually

335
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,200
Speaker 1: for a while, and he was a really fit guy.

336
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 1: I can't he was the whatever the captain of the

337
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,400
Speaker 1: boats called. Anyway, he's past away. But so is this stuff,

338
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,000
Speaker 1: any of this stuff in your documentary?

339
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, all little bits of pass as soon as

340
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,080
Speaker 2: I started talking to them, and as soon as they,

341
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 2: I guess accepted me and Timmy who you met, we

342
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 2: did that together, and as soon as they accepted us,

343
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,840
Speaker 2: the doors just opened. I became very close with with

344
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 2: Woody Winning and his beautiful wife, Kerry John and those

345
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,359
Speaker 2: guys and the Dean family and their mother. I was

346
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,840
Speaker 2: a beautiful, beautiful woman, and the stories just came out,

347
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:34,120
Speaker 2: and it became a really natural. The story became really

348
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,040
Speaker 2: natural to us, and it became really apparent of what

349
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 2: needed to be done and how we and how we went.

350
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,480
Speaker 1: What year we're talking about now.

351
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 2: So this was twenty twenty two was when we started shooting.

352
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,760
Speaker 1: What year we talking about? When the when the tragedy

353
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 1: happened ninety eight? Yeah, because I remember where I was

354
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 1: when I heard the news. I was down at Watson's Bay,

355
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,760
Speaker 1: and I was just looking across at the VYC, the

356
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,399
Speaker 1: Vocalo Yocht Club where the two boys were members of

357
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,919
Speaker 1: and they were avid young sailors. Absolutely, the two boys,

358
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 1: and one of them might have just left school was Nathan,

359
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,399
Speaker 1: and either just left school might have been still in

360
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 1: year twelve. And I remember because I knew the family

361
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,199
Speaker 1: quite well I knew John very well, and but more

362
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,119
Speaker 1: more because our kids were mates. And the shock of

363
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,159
Speaker 1: it all was like horrific and I and I mean,

364
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna when is that really sad?

365
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,840
Speaker 2: Literally, we've literally finished the last couple of weeks. It's

366
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,119
Speaker 2: just gone over to Venice Film to get see if

367
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 2: it we'll get into the Venice Film Festival.

368
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 1: Wow? And where will it be shown? Do you think TBC?

369
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 2: That's it? All sort of depends on distribution and at

370
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 2: those sort of stages.

371
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 1: Now, so you directed this, I did? Wow?

372
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

373
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,760
Speaker 1: And how did you get chosen to do this or

374
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 1: how did that happen?

375
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 2: You know what? It was a bit of a you

376
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,119
Speaker 2: know that we talk on the on the thing of

377
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 2: a perfect storm that was very similar to that. I

378
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 2: was away. I was actually having Fiji and buddy of

379
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:06,360
Speaker 2: mine who's grew up with Herman. Herman called him and said, hey, listen,

380
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 2: we're going to buy this. I think we're going to

381
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,920
Speaker 2: get this boat. Do you guys want to film do something?

382
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 2: And then I sort of had this idea, why don't

383
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,120
Speaker 2: we do it? Like a drive to survive? And it

384
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,880
Speaker 2: evolved from there and it just grew and grew and grew.

385
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,119
Speaker 1: And it sort of documents the period which the Winning

386
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 1: family owned the boat and correct the stuff that happened

387
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 1: before to that. Yes, yes, that's very interesting. So Herman's

388
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,879
Speaker 1: the family decided to basically document the whole period.

389
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we documented the whole We spent Yeah, I

390
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 2: spent the better part of a year following him around

391
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,680
Speaker 2: and meeting the wild and wooly people of the Australian

392
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 2: yacht seen and international yacht scene actually because they had

393
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 2: a lot of overseas crew on board and they fascinating,

394
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 2: fascinating people and great you know, I've made friends.

395
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 1: For life, very generous people. And actually for those people

396
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,920
Speaker 1: don't know, the Winning family owned Winning Suppliances, but John,

397
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:09,399
Speaker 1: the youngest son or the son who's probably close to

398
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,160
Speaker 1: forty I guess maybe a little bit more than forty,

399
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,679
Speaker 1: is the owner and the person behind appliance Is Online,

400
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,159
Speaker 1: which is like probably one of the fastest growing definitely

401
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 1: was at the time a few years ago with definitely

402
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: one of the fastest growing online businesses in the country,

403
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 1: and they've done brilliantly. I don't do John has deliving Astralia.

404
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yron some reason, he zips in and out.

405
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got that. I know he's got the person place. Yeah.

406
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 1: So and and and what's your connect to with Gingel?

407
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 1: So I'm are you a Byron boy?

408
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 2: I'm a bond boy.

409
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 1: He's a Bond boy too.

410
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

411
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,959
Speaker 1: Okay, how much younger than him? Though a little bit? No, Well,

412
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you look younger than Ginge.

413
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 2: I'm younger than gin By. Yeah by probably less than

414
00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 2: ten years.

415
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, younger years older, interviewed him. I interviewed him

416
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 1: this week, did you. Yeah, Yeah, we did an interview.

417
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 1: No one's interview gins before. So I did a and

418
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: We're Ill had a film and so it was sort

419
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: of a off camera type thing, but I interviewed in

420
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: front of a live audience. Yeah, is that right? And

421
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 1: it was amazing, Like it went for two hours, nearly

422
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 1: just on the two hours was live audience, small li

423
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,120
Speaker 1: live audience, and he was amazing.

424
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:24,360
Speaker 2: He's a great guy.

425
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 1: But the stories he has had to tell and about

426
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: his own life and careers, and it was just amazing.

427
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 1: It was but I knew most of it anyway, mainly

428
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: because I'd be a maze for a long long time.

429
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: But the audience loved it. It was just they were gobsmacked.

430
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 1: We're just sitting there. So what's your connection with Gas

431
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 1: Apart from being BONDI boy.

432
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,959
Speaker 2: My connection with Gins is I was. I grew up

433
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: with Jodie Mees. It was like a sister to me.

434
00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 2: He's a sister to me. So when when she hooked

435
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 2: up with James and got married and got married, that

436
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: all sort of came together. And then I bet sort

437
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 2: of really connected then with Ginge at those sort of stages,

438
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 2: in the early stages of that and knowing him from

439
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 2: down the beach to surfing.

440
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: And we're still borrotting board. You can still get up

441
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 1: all right back yeah.

442
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so back, So you know it's work

443
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 2: in progress.

444
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, as it always is.

445
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 2: It is.

446
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: Eventually I can't do it anymore.

447
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to try and get through till at

448
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 2: least seventy five.

449
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: Seventy five, mate, that's not far off where I am

450
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: so so David, then you, of course you are. You

451
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: were one of the first film filmmakers to adopt and

452
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: piney a custom built three sixty degree via virtual reality

453
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: rig and you did something quite amazing which had huge

454
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: number of views. You put yourself well, I don't know

455
00:22:54,080 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: how best to describe is but you produced your using

456
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: virtual reality inside of the tube.

457
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It wasn't me surfing it, it was

458
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: with So we.

459
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: Explained that process. We have fifty million views or something

460
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: crazy thing.

461
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: That's something like that. Yeah. Yeah, So we we were

462
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 2: real early adapters of VR tech, which coming from the

463
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,479
Speaker 2: advertising world, we were sort of in there. So we

464
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: were picked up by Samsung, Google, Facebook, a lot of

465
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: where we were sort of the go to people. So

466
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: we would bot production for production for production, So we

467
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 2: build our equipment using v our equipment, and we it

468
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: was real early stages, so we'd be building all this

469
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 2: stuff and testing it and seeing how it works. And

470
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 2: we had I teamed up one of our directors, Taylor Steele,

471
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: who's very famous surf filmmaker, and we had the idea

472
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 2: we wanted to film inside the barrel three sixty. So

473
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: put the goggles on and look around.

474
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 1: But you're filming Actually what the goggles were seing were

475
00:23:59,240 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: showing me.

476
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 2: Yes, so you're filming insights. So we had a camera

477
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 2: mount off off the surfers. Well.

478
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: C J.

479
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 2: Hobgood was a surfer old ex world champion champion bloke,

480
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: and we had a camera. It was at that stage

481
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 2: the cameras were a big, big ball thing, and we

482
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 2: had this rig rig that came did that attached to him,

483
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 2: which we tested. We did test over in Fiji once

484
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: with Kelly Slater when Kelly's going for a world title,

485
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: like two things before the end, and Kelly wiped out

486
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: and we went up breaking his toe. So that wasn't

487
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: so we're pretty popular there. But anyway, CJ so first

488
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 2: year filmed the.

489
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: Film inside the tube yes on this guy.

490
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: Yes with J Yes Yeah, and that got there and

491
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: we ended up getting the shot and that that then

492
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: became a story that then went onto YouTube and now yeah,

493
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: it's sort of fifty million. But I think the thing

494
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 2: that we were really most proud of is we got

495
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: to film the Great White Sharks down in South Australia.

496
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 2: We'd filmed all day, it was all pretty good and

497
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 2: I found this massive metal pole on the side of

498
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 2: the boat and we found and I had this metal

499
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: wire with us and we basically built a fishing rig

500
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: with a VR camera and flicked it off at the

501
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 2: end of the day and the guys brought.

502
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: The sharks around with a bit of burly.

503
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: A bit of burly and this twenty foot great white

504
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: comes in, swims around the camera and comes and eats

505
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: the camera, and I'm holding on the pole and I'm

506
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 2: going it's got a spit it and starts pulling off

507
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 2: the button. I'm not going to fucking let go. And

508
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 2: I've got the grip diving and grabbing my ankles and

509
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 2: I'm on the side of the boat.

510
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, here they go.

511
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 2: The camera comes out. It's all scratched and broken, but

512
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: we pulled all the cards in and this has never

513
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: really been shown because it was sort of before the

514
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 2: full adaption of it boat.

515
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you get did you get into his mouth?

516
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 2: Inside the mouth? So you actually get eaten by a

517
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: great white shark and you can look out and look

518
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 2: out its mouth and the teeth. Anyway, Yeah, it's been

519
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: what's been. It was owned by someone else. I'm just

520
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: sort of in the midst of finding out whether what

521
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 2: we can do with it.

522
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: But you're on you're on board. Someone else commissioned it,

523
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: so to speak.

524
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 2: Correct, But who aren't who aren't in the space anymore.

525
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: So, Yeah, but if they're interested in sort of releasing it.

526
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 2: Too, we'll say that's something it's something that's definitely the

527
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: thing that's interestingly enough talking to Gingja about it the.

528
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: Other week, given that they will probably already know that

529
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: you've already had fifty million views on something else you've done.

530
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: They probably think they're probably counting on there both hands.

531
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: How much can we ask for? But it could be

532
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: royalty based. You could do some royalty yeah, because I

533
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: mean at fifty million views, I presume someone like YouTube,

534
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 1: it's on Youtubeeah.

535
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not. It's not on it's not really on it.

536
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: It's not really living anyway.

537
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: No, No, I mean that. I mean that the surfing one.

538
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's YouTube.

539
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: I mean you get paid from YouTube for doing that.

540
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 2: I don't so that was commissioned for the WSLF for

541
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 2: the World Surf Week, right, and that's their thing. So

542
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: fifty million views, that's that's pretty healthy. I know the

543
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: returns on YouTube because it's somebody that's that I'm working

544
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: at the moment. Someone's getting paid.

545
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very interesting. You have a bit of a

546
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: backstory though, you and you're you're you're actually now producing

547
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: or you've produced a new show a series which you're

548
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: trying to get film financed correct.

549
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 2: Is that right?

550
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: You just tell us the name of the film.

551
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 2: So it's called You Don't Yet is a is a series.

552
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 2: It's a series on Yet Yet, Yeah, series on men's

553
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 2: mental health. Basically, it's a an episodic series where each

554
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: episode we sit down with a with a different guy

555
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: and go through their story and it's about their struggles

556
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: or related struggles, but also how they overcome it. And

557
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: I think that's the.

558
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: Not just doing glooms.

559
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: No, it's it's it's it's not doing a gloom. It's

560
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 2: about it's about men relating to it. And I think

561
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: that's the whole premise of this idea sort of came

562
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 2: from a place of men being able to relate to

563
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 2: something thing and then see a way ways in which

564
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: to get out, rather than how it's been done up

565
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: until till now. It's you'll be right, mate.

566
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: Go and have a beer and suck it up or

567
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: get over it.

568
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: Get over it? Yeah, fuck, don't worry about it. You're fine.

569
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: Can you just explain to me maybe as to why

570
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: you did that? What? What? What? What was the lead up to

571
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:22,719
Speaker 1: that for you?

572
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: So look, I think the leading is eight to ten

573
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: years ago I had you know, I was married, houses

574
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: had a big boat. Everything outline from the outside looked

575
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: fucking rosy, you know, breaking it in, But on the

576
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: inside it was completely different.

577
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: You know. It was a really inside your head, inside.

578
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: The inside, inside my head, inside the relationship I was

579
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 2: really I wasn't a really bad it was a bad marriage.

580
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: It wasn't. It was pretty toxic, and I guess it

581
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: sort of took away. I sort of felt like it

582
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: took away all of my confidence and I sort of

583
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: just regressed and that at the time. At the time,

584
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: and then as that was happening, the whole VR world,

585
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: which we'd heavily gone into that sort of went away.

586
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: Samsung had jumped out of the It just never took on,

587
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: and I thought we put all our you know, we

588
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: put all our chips on black, and it flipped your head.

589
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: So then I lost my company and I was.

590
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: Just like fuck. As it was during the marriage or

591
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: as a result of the marriage, it was sort of.

592
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 2: During It was almost concurrent. It wasn't because of or

593
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: anything like that. It was just concurrent at the time,

594
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: and I was just it just seemed like one of

595
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: those perfect storms where everything just came in and the

596
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 2: rug just got pulled out from under me.

597
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: And then you know you're talking about the divorce being

598
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: part of the road being pulled from under you.

599
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: Divorce divorces another looked separations, separations always had got you know,

600
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: I've got three kids and that's always you know, it's

601
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: always really difficult balancing that. But also the divorce was

602
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 2: horrible and dragged on for many.

603
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: Years, paying the expensive Fuck it's the away. But you know,

604
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: can you believe that it's a government has set it up?

605
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: I mean as Lionel Murphy who brought in that changed

606
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: the Matrimonal Courses Act and brought in the New Family

607
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: Law Act back in the seventy something rather and he's

608
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: the A Party Attorney General. But it's it's not just

609
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: on men or it's like it's an atrocious process.

610
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: The thing is fucking broken, Yes it is. It is

611
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: really everyone, for everyone. The lawyers, that's the only people

612
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: that they put their hand up.

613
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: And it's just like so you get opposing lawyers for

614
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: a start, I mean, you get one, she gets one

615
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: or she gets one. You get one because you have

616
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: to because you don't know what the is going on.

617
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: And they are charged like wounded bulls. Correct, They the

618
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: opposition immediately distrusts you. You're the world's worst person. Like absolutely,

619
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: that's just the position that put you. They can be

620
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: a friend of yours today and the day they get appointed,

621
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: you are the world's worst person. I mean literally, yeah, yeah, yeah.

622
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: And then then it becomes very expensive. It just gets

623
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: racked up, and it's racked up and it's racked up,

624
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: and you're going, fuck, this is all going to come

625
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: out of both our our pockets.

626
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, and you lose and look at the end

627
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: of at the end of my thing, I walked away

628
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: with nothing. And you know, it's just it's such a

629
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 2: sad thing because it's a reflection of It's a reflection

630
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: of society today, I think is a bigger picture. And look, I'm.

631
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: It's traumatizing very much so, especially if you're a business person,

632
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: like you're in business, yeah, trying to let's just put

633
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: aside for a moment, for the moment that VR I

634
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't say tanked. It just didn't become the thing everyone

635
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 1: expected to become. In fact, in fact, I was one

636
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: of those ones expected to become something too. But just

637
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: put out aside. You're own business person dealing with business issues.

638
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: Every day trying to win jobs, to compete and be

639
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: competitive on jobs. You're trying to keep your staff or

640
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: the people that you know in your game, the people

641
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: who subcontract to you. You're trying to keep them you know, available,

642
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: you know, and happy and feeling like they're engaged because

643
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: you know, if you lose them, you're very able to

644
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: get them back, and then you can't fill the next job,

645
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: you can't price. So you're running a business and then

646
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: you get in front of with this fucking legal mindfield

647
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: and also an ethical mindfield too. Everything gets about kids.

648
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: The person who you know, at one stage in your

649
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: life you loved now becomes public in any number one,

650
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: and everybody then gets pushed into accusations, et cetera, because

651
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: it becomes a blame game. So the whole family law

652
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: structure is about who's to blame. Yes, yeah, and that's

653
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: that's the seventies thing. It's like, yeah, it's a seventies

654
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: thing because that's where the legislation was conceived in the seventies,

655
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: which is fair, but today, you know, twenty five fifty

656
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: years later, it's all bullshit. Look, we're not getting on.

657
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: We've grown apart. There's a few issues. You know, it's

658
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: not about blame. I did this, you did that. You know,

659
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: who came first doesn't really fucking matter. The kids are

660
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: the most boarding. Let's look after them, and let's, by

661
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: the way, whatever we build up in terms of dollars,

662
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: let's preserve and let these motherfuckers go in there and

663
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: take from us as lawyers and judges and everybody else

664
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: sing there in judgment of you and documents and agreements

665
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: like somehow you've I get it, some people, women especially,

666
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: we're getting rauded under the old system. I get that bit.

667
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: But today we don't need to act this way. I mean,

668
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: because most I think most people are fairly responsible. There

669
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: are occasions with a movie doesn't need to go to

670
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: an arbitrator, but generally speaking, the whole thing is fashioned

671
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: to destroy.

672
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: You totally and not just and it's not just guys

673
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 2: as well, it's the women with with my situation, no

674
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: one walked away, No I just walked We just walked away.

675
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: We walked away millions of dollars, you know, nearly a

676
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: million bucks less, and it's just like, what the fuck for?

677
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

678
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: I don't, yeah anyway, and that.

679
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: Just did that give you mental health problems?

680
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: You think that pushed me over the edge. Yeah, look

681
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 2: what happened. I got to the end of that and

682
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 2: it was just lost business. I lost everything.

683
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: I was like, why would you lose the Why did

684
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: you lose the business?

685
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: I think at the same at that time, we'd gone

686
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: so heavily, we heavily invested in this VR world, and

687
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 2: that wasn't reaping the returns. Trying to jump back into

688
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 2: the advertising world wasn't as easy because things had things

689
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: had sort of gone backwards, and I guess my from

690
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 2: my point of view, my confidence was just shot. Like

691
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: I was just I was literally on edge. I started

692
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: seeing a therapist and she was like, You've got the

693
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: worst pts to I've ever seen, and I was that

694
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 2: was fully traumatized. Yeah, so it took so I sort

695
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 2: of got into a just sort of got into that

696
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: hole and that classic hole too.

697
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: How do you get out of it? Booze, drugs, what ever?

698
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: Just escape? That was the That was the big thing.

699
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 2: And it's and you just get you get more and

700
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: more into yourself, and then you withdraw yourself from your mates,

701
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: you enjoy yourself and you're just in that quiet thing

702
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 2: and it's just and you start having the dark the

703
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: dark times and everyone you know that everyone speaks about.

704
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: Did you get sodal thoughts?

705
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 2: Look, I probably got pretty close to there once or twice.

706
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 2: But I'm really lucky. I've got a great group of

707
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 2: friends that were there for me, and I met someone

708
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 2: new a little while after, and she has been an

709
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: absolute beacon in my life of getting me out of

710
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 2: that and just getting just starting the road two. You say,

711
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: to the road to redemption, but it's it's sort of

712
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 2: just the road out to be able to get out

713
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: and feel normal again. And I think one of the

714
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: biggest things for me, and one of the biggest things

715
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 2: I've learned from from the series is is isolation is

716
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 2: probably the worst, the worst thing with mental illness.

717
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: Or why do you think we isolated? We're embarrassed?

718
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: I think probably for me it was probably, Yeah, I'm embarrassed.

719
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 2: You don't you know you have so much success and

720
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 2: then that's taken away from you, So it.

721
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: Was your main embarrassment, I'm no longer successful on my

722
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 1: failure was your embarrassment, I'm getting divorced, I'm a failure

723
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: as a husband or a father.

724
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 2: I think I think it was probably a little bit

725
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 2: of column, a little bit of Columbae.

726
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: Yep. You know I tried.

727
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 2: You know, I tried really hard with both. But then

728
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 2: you sort of it felt like everything was sort of

729
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 2: weighing up on me, and the more I tried to

730
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: swim against the current, the current got stronger, if that

731
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: makes sense. And then it got to a point where

732
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: it was just like, fuck, do I just get out

733
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: of this? And then one day I was just like

734
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 2: I looked out at the balcony and I was looked

735
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 2: down the beach and there was a little way and

736
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,919
Speaker 2: I just went, fuck, I've got to get out of it. Yeah,

737
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 2: at the time, I probably did. For yeah, I did.

738
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 2: For a few months. You just you stop everything because

739
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: you lose It's almost like you lose a party yourself,

740
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: you know, when you're in.

741
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: That, you lose your soul.

742
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I just did the one little thing

743
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 2: and it's I was just saying to Timmy before, the

744
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 2: hardest part when you're in that headspace and you're in

745
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 2: that thing, is the first step out. And that's what

746
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 2: I'm trying to show with this series is there's all

747
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 2: different everyone's got a different story, everyone's going through a

748
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: different hardship. But everyone's got a different way of getting out,

749
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 2: and maybe one person sees it goes, oh, I can

750
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: relate to that, or that guy's going through that and

751
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,959
Speaker 2: he does that. Fuck, maybe I could try just going

752
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: for a walk, or maybe I could try jumping in

753
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: the water in winter, or maybe I can try this

754
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 2: or that. That's what the whole the.

755
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: Whole process does each episode do? They have how many episodes?

756
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: So I've got I've sort of arted shooting the first four.

757
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,919
Speaker 2: I sort of this. I just want to keep going

758
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: on and on because it's interesting. Since launching the promo,

759
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: I've had so many people reach out to me friends

760
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: and the promos released, promos released, Yeah, promos on YouTube,

761
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 2: they can find that it ain't over yet.

762
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: Dot tv it ain't over yet.

763
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 2: Yes.

764
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: Dot tv tv is our is our website.

765
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: They can go on there and they can jump on

766
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 2: and they can click onto the promo. They can have

767
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 2: a look at that. And we're just in the stages

768
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: now finishing. I've got a few episodes that I'm in

769
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: the that are in the works. And as you've got

770
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: you've got four, I've got five. I've got five in

771
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 2: the works at the moment.

772
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: Five shot five filmed.

773
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've funded all that myself. Yeah.

774
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just go back a set. No, no, it's okay,

775
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: just go back a set. So it's interesting, you know,

776
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 1: when you're in a hole in business and then something

777
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: happens is generally speaking, what does happen, as it happens

778
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: in relation to your personal relationships as well, somehow sort

779
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: of happened at the same time, happened at the same time,

780
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: and then, as you said, you withdraw. But what's interesting

781
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: about what you said is you just had something that

782
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: drew you back into the water. And for surfers and

783
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: for those people who don't know, surfing is sort of meditational.

784
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

785
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:25,959
Speaker 1: I mean, like when you're out there on a board,

786
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: especially if it's a nice day and you know, if

787
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: it's calm, it's sort of there's something about it. It's

788
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: a bit like doing yogurt. It sort of makes you

789
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 1: feel chilled doing it and when you're finished. But maybe what

790
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: you're saying is, then you don't even if you're not

791
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: a surfer, finding something like that, even if it's going

792
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: for a run, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. What

793
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: is it that you know that you've done in the

794
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: past that is sort of semi meditational, and even if

795
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: you haven't done something in the past, it does that

796
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: for you. What is something that you think you'd like

797
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: to do that be meditational? It could be just going

798
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: to yoga class, and even if you're shit at it

799
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: doesn't matter.

800
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: It absolutely done.

801
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: I suggest you go and get it on a surfboard

802
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 1: if you've never done it, because there might be that meditation,

803
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: especially if you're a certain age you're foll but but doing.

804
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: But I think your point, Dave, is that you did

805
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: something that you were confident you can knew you could do,

806
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,479
Speaker 1: but actually gave you a certain sense of yourself again

807
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: you got back into contact with who, Dave is it did?

808
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah?

809
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: Yeah? And then and then I guess that was the

810
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: series about that.

811
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah it is it is. I guess a couple of

812
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 2: years ago, when I was sort of I was healing

813
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: and going through things, I went I went up to

814
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: a tiny little island northern Sumatra, and I was up

815
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 2: there for a couple of weeks, and I brought a

816
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 2: couple of cameras up there and I was like, I

817
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 2: had this idea of this.

818
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: Show, and I thought, fuck this show, this.

819
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: Show, the show that I'm doing, and I had some

820
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 2: ideas and I just set up this Jimmy rig of

821
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: two cameras set up and I interviewed myself and it

822
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: was probably the most honest thing I've ever done. And

823
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 2: I ran interview with myself and filmed it and it

824
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 2: was stinking hot and I was honest, and I think

825
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 2: I was probably the most honest I've been for a

826
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 2: long time. And answered these questions and.

827
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: Who formulated the course? You formulated question?

828
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I just sort of did that and just

829
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: started talking.

830
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: Well, maybe you decide that I'm going to actually talk

831
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: to myself and I'm actually going to be honest about it.

832
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: That's a pretty unique thing to do.

833
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 2: It was the idea for this show because I figured

834
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 2: if I was going to do a show like this

835
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 2: for men or for people, I had to be honest

836
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 2: with myself and I had to look myself in the

837
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 2: mirror and go, no bullshit, There's no bullshit. And that's

838
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 2: what I think the basis of this is. And I

839
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: interviewed myself and sort of came back, came back to

840
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 2: a bit of a shit show back in Sydney and

841
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 2: the year before I'd done you talk about meditation. I'd

842
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: done a I'd been gifted a meditation course by my

843
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 2: partner with a Sydney guru, meditation guru, and I came

844
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 2: back and interestingly enough, i'd sort of I'd done the

845
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: start of the show, but then i'd sort of moved

846
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 2: away from it, and I went to see him one night.

847
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 2: It's a Monday night. I went to he did an

848
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: open meditation on Monday night. We're out the front of there,

849
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: and we went to his place in Paddington, and so

850
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 2: he didn't show up, and I was like fuck. Texting,

851
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, Tim, where what the fuck?

852
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's well known, very well known. Here's a paddy guy. Yeah,

853
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: Tim Brown, Yeah, yeah yeah.

854
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: And it turns out that and next day I went

855
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: away and I texted him and he lived next door

856
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: to my partner. I they see him every day. The

857
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 2: happiest guy, the best guy in the world. You know,

858
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 2: his positive, positive, positive. It turned out that that night, yeah,

859
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 2: about three meters away from where we were standing, hit

860
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 2: taking his own life.

861
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: Wow. I didn't know that, And.

862
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: I was like fuck and if that was like a

863
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: that jolt of lightning, and I just went, fuck, I've

864
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 2: got to do this. If that guy, if that guy

865
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 2: struggles with it, then everyone else is as well. So

866
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: the show was born and I just sort of started

867
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,479
Speaker 2: and we kind of started a little bit. I guess

868
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: we started a little bit blind and just started talking

869
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: to people. But as it's come along now and it's

870
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 2: evolved and the episodes have evolved, this it's become a

871
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 2: real it's become really focused on being able to tell

872
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 2: a story, but I think more so being a positive

873
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: influence of how people can get out of it. And look,

874
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I'm not a mental

875
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 2: health professional. I haven't studied mental health anything. I'm a

876
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: filmmaker and I'm not perturbing to be.

877
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: That.

878
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: But what I can do is I can tell people stories.

879
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 2: And if people can take off a little bit of this,

880
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 2: a little bit of that, and then take in a

881
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 2: little bit of what they do, it changes people's lives.

882
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: And I've seen it at First Town just from these

883
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 2: first few episodes that we've shot.

884
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: What are there some common themes across say the four,

885
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: four or five episodes you've done. Now, there's some common

886
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: themes about the individual episodes that others are employing to

887
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: get out of the you know, the funk that they're in.

888
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there, there is, and there's I think one

889
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: of the most common themes, one of the most common

890
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 2: reasons of of the struggles is isolation, which we touched

891
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: on before that that was really interesting of coming across.

892
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: One of them is if you're not socially good anyway

893
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: generally speaking, so something like me, like you're not generally

894
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: very social, is that that could be a problem for

895
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: I think there it can be a problem. But now

896
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: there's groups.

897
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: There's a there's a group Buddy of Mind starter group

898
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 2: down in Koyama called the Man Walk, and it's just

899
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: guys that get together once twice a week and it's

900
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 2: you turn up, you don't and you walk side by

901
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: side and that's no judgments, no judgments. And the biggest thing.

902
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 2: The other thing that I found too is when you're

903
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 2: talking to someone, the best way to talk is next

904
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 2: to them. When you're in that sort of funky space

905
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: when you're like this, then you're talking at someone, or

906
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: you're having that to and front. When you're side by side,

907
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 2: like in a car or something, or you're walking, then

908
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 2: the conversations flow and it's really interesting.

909
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: With that's interesting, Yeah, with.

910
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 2: With my buddies with the Man Walk. You know, you

911
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 2: got your down there and on the south coast, and

912
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 2: he's got guys coming in from you know, from rural

913
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: areas that don't see people for weeks.

914
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: It's called the Man Walk, the Man Walk, the Man Walk,

915
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: and you can look it up.

916
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 2: You can look it up and there and the man

917
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: walks all over the country. There's an episode on on

918
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: on him, Mark Burns. He's a fucking legend of what

919
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: he's done and how he's built this and it's just

920
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 2: growing expansion. But that's just one of that's just one

921
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: of many things that are starting to pop up now

922
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: where guys are getting together and know Gin was talking

923
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 2: about placed down at the bra where guys get together

924
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 2: on Friday and do weights and hang out and stuff.

925
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: It's breaking down those stigmas and it's getting it's letting

926
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: people know that it's okay not to be okay.

927
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: Yes, So that whole judgment process we feel as because

928
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: I think we naturally judge. That's that's an instinct of ours. Yeah, probably,

929
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: and probably probably stood by us really well because it's

930
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: allowed us, in an evolutionary sense, to survive better than

931
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 1: all the other species because we have the ability to

932
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: make judgments, yes, you know, based on how someone looks

933
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: or perceptions. Yes, but that's interesting though, where man walk,

934
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: et cetera. Yeah, these are non judgmental forums.

935
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

936
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: And what's really interesting what you just said that one

937
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: of the common denominators is when we sit across from

938
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: each other, we tend to be judgmental.

939
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

940
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: So if you stand the having a beer with your mate,

941
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:59,439
Speaker 1: it's probably a bit confronting. Chemist if you're just walking

942
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: down the robes, we don't really know. Yep, some dude

943
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: in the same boat as you, perhaps, Yeah, you just

944
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: walk along. Yeah, you don't feel that that sort of

945
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: sense of instinctive judgment. He's going to judge me.

946
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.

947
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: That's very clever. Yeah, it's actually very clever manipulation. So

948
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: to speak of an outcome someone needs to needs to achieve,

949
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: which is sort of goes back to what you do

950
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: when you're making your films. Yes, you're manipulating a whole

951
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: lot of stuff, Yes, to build an outcome. Yes, and

952
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: these four five episodes. Would you call this a social

953
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: enterprise or it's a business? Own business can be a

954
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: social enterprise too.

955
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 2: By the way, but absolutely, Look, i'd love it to

956
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 2: be I'd love it to be my business for me

957
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: to be able to go on and do this and

958
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 2: create hundreds of episodes of doing this because I find

959
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: it's I find that I've got I've got a knack

960
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 2: for being able to do that is get these stories

961
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 2: out of people and make them feel comfortable. And I

962
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 2: think that's a really that's a really important part of

963
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 2: what I'm trying to do. And you know, filmmaking can

964
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: be as you sort of said, you can manipulate situations

965
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 2: and you can change things and what have you, whereas

966
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: this is, this has set out to be very very real,

967
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: like it's there's no bullshit, this is this is raw,

968
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 2: and it's got to be really raw. I've got to

969
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 2: bear my soul for them to trust me, to be

970
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: able to bear their soul for us. Then to find

971
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: out what is their solution, what is their way out

972
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: of what are the ways that they're doing it? And

973
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 2: you know, everyone you asked before, what's the common theme?

974
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 2: Everyone's really different, but there is has been one common theme.

975
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: And I've just out of these five and some you know,

976
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 2: some of them are very much water people, but water

977
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 2: has been a big one. It's just going for just

978
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 2: getting in the water. You know. I've done a Muslim

979
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 2: friend who lives in a very very small island in

980
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: just underneath Banderach, and his whole thing was he's had

981
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 2: a very sick child and he his whole thing was

982
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: he just goes in and swims. Now, the guy can

983
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: barely swim. And when I say he can barely swim,

984
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: he can barely swim. But that's his thing. He can

985
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 2: stop and be in the water and it brings him

986
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 2: the car.

987
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: That water would do that to me too, Yeah, because

988
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: I love the water, but that would or just being

989
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: around the water. That's very interesting that common denominated water.

990
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: Where would I mean, obviously these things costs money. You've

991
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: got to produce this, Yes, keep doing this on your own.

992
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: Where would you be most likely to show this? Is

993
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 1: this a YouTube series?

994
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 2: Look? I want to That's where I have landed in

995
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: wanting to put it on YouTube. There were some early

996
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 2: conversations about going to network television and whatnot. Problem with

997
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 2: doing it down that route is, yeah, we love the idea,

998
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: but how about we don't talk about that, and how

999
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 2: about you talk about this, which then becomes an advertising thing.

1000
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: Then they're trying to sell advertising.

1001
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: That's right, and then and then that comes into censorship.

1002
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 2: So the whole reason is going to YouTube is you know,

1003
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 2: the biggest growing media medium in the world and expanding

1004
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: every day availability, very simple for everyone to get at.

1005
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: There's no barrier of entry, no barrier of.

1006
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 2: Entry, and it cuts the cost of me being able

1007
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 2: to put them on that.

1008
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: So we're not doing film quality either. I mean, you

1009
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: can do good quality, but you're not. There's no one

1010
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: saying you've got to shoot on this, and you know,

1011
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 1: you can sort of make it a little bit more authentic.

1012
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 2: That's that is true. The problem with coming from film

1013
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 2: is there's only one way. There's only one way to

1014
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 2: do it, and we do it. We do it right.

1015
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 2: So they're all going to look they look pretty mickey Mouse,

1016
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 2: but it's but it's definitely definitely a medium. I think

1017
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 2: that that can be accessed by a lot of people.

1018
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: Because there are There is a show on the ABC

1019
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,240
Speaker 1: called You Can't Ask That Yes, which has been funded

1020
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: by the ave been quite successful. I think they've had

1021
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: a number series. I just did a podcast earlier on

1022
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 1: with a guy named Josh Szebs who it's not a film,

1023
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: but it's it's a podcast. But he runs a series

1024
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 1: called you Can't Ask Sorry Uncomfortable Conversations. Yes, very successful,

1025
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: but that's he's funded as his own podcast series. And yes,

1026
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: subscribe to a subscription based thing. I can sort of

1027
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 1: see something of this being subscribed to by people. Yeah,

1028
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: you know on YouTube or perhaps even vodcast, you know

1029
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: where it's not an audio but a video type thing

1030
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: as well. How we're you up to now in terms

1031
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: of raising money or raising an interest or whatever whatever

1032
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: you what's your objective right now?

1033
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 2: Look, the objective is is the ultimate thing for me

1034
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 2: would be to get a partner on get a partner, advice,

1035
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: a funding partner, a partner that can help me out

1036
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 2: with the business and financial side of things. Creativity, We've

1037
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 2: got it licked, you know. We know, we know what

1038
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 2: we're doing, we know how we're going to do it.

1039
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,720
Speaker 2: The production partner and those sort of things, but having

1040
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 2: having someone to back us up and to be doing

1041
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: all this back end stuff. I'm not that I'm not

1042
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: that great at it. I've always been a creative. I've

1043
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 2: always had a producer that's been doing the money, the

1044
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 2: finance person. I've been doing that now for and now

1045
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 2: I've been doing this for a long time. It's doing

1046
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 2: my head in And we've got I've got meetings with

1047
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 2: government next week and we've just got we've just got

1048
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: taken on by Documentary Australia which gives us a DDR

1049
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 2: status for anyone that can do that, anyone that can

1050
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: don't wants to donate, or companies that want to donate.

1051
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: What does that mean like a tax reduction, tax deduction.

1052
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it makes it a little more It makes

1053
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 2: it a little more appealing for investors.

1054
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: For investors, you probably what you're probably looking for to though,

1055
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: is a person who can guide you through that financial

1056
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: corgmire because you're a creative and not unfortunately you can't

1057
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: do everything but whils you're creating and producing good quality film,

1058
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 1: yes and audio, you probably don't really have the inclination

1059
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: end all the time to or the qualifications to run

1060
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: the financing part of it.

1061
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 2: I don't. And you know what market's like. It's like

1062
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 2: knocking my head against the wall. You know, there's only

1063
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 2: so much you can learn on YouTube. It's like with

1064
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 2: with whatever you do. You know, if you've if you've

1065
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 2: worked in a field for such a long time, it

1066
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 2: becomes second nature. It becomes your way of doing things.

1067
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 2: Whereas you know you're trying to do this and trying

1068
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 2: to call this person do this, it just falls flat

1069
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 2: and I feel like I feel like I'm not being

1070
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 2: honest in how how that's coming across. So having someone

1071
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 2: come on board and someone to mentor to be that

1072
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 2: person is, Yeah, that's exactly what we're after.

1073
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 1: Well, maybe there's going to be we could have somebody

1074
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: who actually listens to and or watches this particular episode

1075
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: around all our episodes who might be of interest to you.

1076
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: How would someone get in contact with you?

1077
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 2: They could reach out to us on it don't have yet?

1078
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 2: Dot tv is our website, yep.

1079
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 1: And there's just dot TV, no dot com, dot U,

1080
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: just dot TV.

1081
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:51,919
Speaker 2: Dot TV.

1082
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: You don't yet dot TV and over yet? Is ai

1083
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: n apostrophe t over yet?

1084
00:53:58,360 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: Yes?

1085
00:53:59,000 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 1: Yes?

1086
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: And dot tv, dot TV And they can find us

1087
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: also on social media channels.

1088
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: What's what's you've got to Instagram? Have yet the same thing.

1089
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,959
Speaker 2: On Insta and Facebook? Ye? And they can and they can.

1090
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 1: DM And right now you're looking, are we talking about

1091
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: large amounts of funding of what we're talking about it.

1092
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 1: What's an episode costing.

1093
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 2: Episodes costing sort of around forty grand Yeah, an episode,

1094
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: which for you know, for eighteen fifteen to eighteen minute episode,

1095
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 2: it's a it's pretty good. We've got We've I've kept

1096
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 2: the cost down for a reason, to be able to

1097
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: produce a number, to be able to get a good

1098
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 2: spread of things out, especially for that first season, to

1099
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 2: just show how it lands. And then I think once

1100
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 2: it gets that, once it gets.

1101
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: A little bit of a roll on and build an audio.

1102
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 2: Build an audience, it'll go. The really interesting thing is

1103
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 2: is when we launch the teaser, I've had had a

1104
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 2: lot of had a heap of feedback from people wanting

1105
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 2: to be on the show and mates and guys and stuff,

1106
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 2: but a lot of women writing in and texting me saying,

1107
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is so good. I had a

1108
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: brother that this has happened too. This is really great.

1109
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 2: And that's been a really interesting turn as well as

1110
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: the women are really interested in the content as well.

1111
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: Women are also much more thoughtful about these things because

1112
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: for the very reason you need to do this show

1113
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 1: in the first place, blokes aren't and yeah, that's the

1114
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 1: very reason you need to do it.

1115
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 2: Women talk. Guys don't.

1116
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't, and unfortunately, particularly older guys, because that's

1117
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: just not how we're always told. Just keep it at home,

1118
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,959
Speaker 1: keep it buried. Yeah, and that's what you're saying, I think, David,

1119
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: is that is the worst possible thing you can do,

1120
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: worst possible because that all fits into the isolation. This

1121
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: bit that all fits into I'm going to isolate myself

1122
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: because I'm ashamed or whatever it is, I'm not going

1123
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: to tell anyone about it. And over time you've got

1124
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: no one to talk to about it, and then you

1125
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: just go down this deephole and then you get lonely,

1126
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 1: and people drink for companionship and or take drugs, yes,

1127
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: and they lose their confidence. So when you get anxiety

1128
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: when you go into crowd, So what am I going

1129
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: to do before I got in the crowd, I'm going

1130
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 1: to get on the drink or take something before I

1131
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: go to help me through that process. And then you

1132
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: get addiction. Processes start to kick in and you think

1133
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: you can't do it without it, and then you go

1134
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: down a horrible rabbit hole and which no doubt you

1135
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: went through. And look, I think from what's really interesting

1136
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 1: here is there are a number of business owners who

1137
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: would be listening to this thing, who could well be

1138
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: going through exactly the same thing as what you have

1139
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 1: gone through. I can tell you now, I know a

1140
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,720
Speaker 1: lot of people have been through those processes, lots lots,

1141
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 1: and the only way out is, like when I went

1142
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 1: through these things, it's no YouTube, but is to lean

1143
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: on somebody else who's actually been through the experience. You

1144
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 1: don't want to go to mum or dad. I mean,

1145
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: it's great if you can, but mum and dad because

1146
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: my mom and dad probably haven't experienced it. And a

1147
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: lot of times you want to get your brother, your

1148
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:58,439
Speaker 1: sister because they probably haven't experienced it, so they don't

1149
00:56:58,440 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about.

1150
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 2: And you think when I was going through it, you

1151
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 2: think you're the only one.

1152
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the whole thing.

1153
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 2: And that's why this shot it's like, oh god, oh

1154
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 2: that he's doing that. Oh I'm not the only guy.

1155
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: And the great thing in YouTube is a bit of

1156
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 1: you interviewing yourself is voyeurism. I can get on YouTube

1157
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: and no one even knows correct, and then I can

1158
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: look at it and if it's not episode one, it

1159
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: might be episode five. The nice small chunks so I'm

1160
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: not going to have to sit there for an hour

1161
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: and a half listen to Joe Rogan episode or two

1162
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: hours or three hours. It's for chunky fifteen twenty minutes.

1163
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 2: Fifteen twenty minutes and you know what, and they go

1164
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 2: they go quick and it goes, we go deep fast

1165
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 2: like it's it's open.

1166
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no stuff on a round, there's no.

1167
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 2: Stuff straight, there's no bullshit. It's just it's real. It's raw,

1168
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 2: and some of it's some it's it's confronting. Some some

1169
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 2: things are confronting.

1170
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: But it's not about it's just so I'm clear on

1171
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: this is not just about the being confronted. It's it's

1172
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: also about a solution.

1173
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 2: I think the biggest the biggest outtake is the solution

1174
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 2: is that you can relate to the bad things that

1175
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 2: have happened, but also how that taken, how they've come around,

1176
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 2: or how they've working or how they are working. You

1177
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 2: know a lot of people it's it's working progress.

1178
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: I know with me it is that it never stops.

1179
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 2: It never does.

1180
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: But with everyone but all of us are working progress.

1181
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: People think, look, they think you've got to ship together, mate,

1182
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: fucking every single day it doesn't matter. I have to

1183
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: give myself an uppercut and just get on with it

1184
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 1: and work my way through it and talk to people.

1185
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: It's why I do this podcasts, by the way, one

1186
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: of the things I do because I learned something. Every

1187
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: single time I get reminded of something that I've already learned,

1188
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: what I've forgotten about, or I'm not employing, We'll make

1189
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: the best luck. Dave Kleiber. Dave is the owner, producer, director,

1190
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: and everything at this stage. And you know who's out

1191
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: there looking for assistance, somebody who wants to join him

1192
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: as a like minded person for it ain't over yet.

1193
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: Dot tv if that's his website, you want to go

1194
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: to have a look at it and the teasers up

1195
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: there up there good cause it's about time. Good on

1196
00:58:55,360 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 1: your mate, Thanks Mark, I appreciate time. St