1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Approche production. 2 00:00:17,281 --> 00:00:19,081 Speaker 2: You know, I'm very grateful that you've been able to 3 00:00:19,121 --> 00:00:22,601 Speaker 2: give us this time to share your journey getting into 4 00:00:22,601 --> 00:00:23,081 Speaker 2: the force. 5 00:00:23,601 --> 00:00:25,681 Speaker 3: How was that for you and what was the first 6 00:00:25,721 --> 00:00:26,281 Speaker 3: couple of years? 7 00:00:26,361 --> 00:00:30,801 Speaker 4: Like, Yeah, So my journey through police sort of like 8 00:00:31,001 --> 00:00:33,521 Speaker 4: with everything in my life, really sort of progresses pretty quick. 9 00:00:33,561 --> 00:00:36,681 Speaker 4: I did my very short period of time in uniform, 10 00:00:37,681 --> 00:00:41,001 Speaker 4: went out and went real hard, Like I just wanted results, stats, 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,921 Speaker 4: wanted to get my name. You know, we spoke about 12 00:00:43,961 --> 00:00:46,561 Speaker 4: Kane Richardson's story at the start of this Body. 13 00:00:46,601 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: We did mention to him. 14 00:00:47,521 --> 00:00:49,601 Speaker 4: You know, Kane spoke about how you want to in 15 00:00:49,641 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 4: the criminal world, do you want to get your name 16 00:00:51,161 --> 00:00:53,641 Speaker 4: out there? And you want to you know, be notorious 17 00:00:53,681 --> 00:00:56,841 Speaker 4: in that you know you're the guy. It's the same 18 00:00:56,881 --> 00:00:59,921 Speaker 4: in the police. Like I went out and you know, 19 00:01:00,281 --> 00:01:03,681 Speaker 4: I just wanted to be the guy that would get 20 00:01:03,721 --> 00:01:07,241 Speaker 4: the best results and that and you know, mix it 21 00:01:07,281 --> 00:01:09,761 Speaker 4: with the toughest blokes that were around. 22 00:01:09,761 --> 00:01:13,241 Speaker 1: So I did a couple of years on the beach 23 00:01:13,321 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: and then transferred to a country station. 24 00:01:15,961 --> 00:01:18,121 Speaker 4: There was a news report that came out that said 25 00:01:18,121 --> 00:01:19,881 Speaker 4: the Smithon was going to be the Ice was the 26 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,121 Speaker 4: Ice capital of Australia, and that's where more people were 27 00:01:24,161 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 4: on ice per per population per capita and that town 28 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:29,401 Speaker 4: anywhere else. 29 00:01:29,441 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: So I transferred up there. It wasn't really the case, 30 00:01:33,241 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: if I'm honest with it. I mean we had dealings 31 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:36,881 Speaker 1: and interactions. 32 00:01:36,321 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 4: But I could tell you there were far worse places 33 00:01:38,681 --> 00:01:39,521 Speaker 4: around the country. 34 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 2: I want to just I just want to pull you 35 00:01:41,401 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: back a bit there because and this is a question 36 00:01:44,121 --> 00:01:46,601 Speaker 2: I would hopefully like you to be able to answer 37 00:01:46,601 --> 00:01:49,961 Speaker 2: for us, because you touch on kin talking about being 38 00:01:50,001 --> 00:01:52,721 Speaker 2: the biggest and the badest criminal, and we know that 39 00:01:53,361 --> 00:01:58,081 Speaker 2: living that life. We rarely hear the side from an 40 00:01:58,161 --> 00:02:01,921 Speaker 2: ex officer whom speaks in that manner. Can you, just 41 00:02:02,121 --> 00:02:03,921 Speaker 2: for the listener, give us a little bit more in 42 00:02:04,001 --> 00:02:06,441 Speaker 2: depth into what do you mean. 43 00:02:06,281 --> 00:02:08,721 Speaker 3: By being the biggest and badest? Well, I did say 44 00:02:08,761 --> 00:02:09,601 Speaker 3: you didn't say badest. 45 00:02:09,601 --> 00:02:11,321 Speaker 1: No, I didn't use the serlogy. 46 00:02:14,641 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: To a smart man, So I'm going to pull that back. 47 00:02:19,041 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: But you know, to be the best at what your 48 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,641 Speaker 2: job was entailed, how far would you go? 49 00:02:24,721 --> 00:02:26,241 Speaker 3: What would you do? What were the you know, like, 50 00:02:26,281 --> 00:02:28,561 Speaker 3: were you're just locking up people? Is that a number? 51 00:02:28,601 --> 00:02:31,161 Speaker 2: Is it a stat you know, like pulling for one 52 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,601 Speaker 2: hundred RBTs on a weekend, like give us a little 53 00:02:33,601 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: bit more insight to what it is that an officer 54 00:02:35,481 --> 00:02:38,641 Speaker 2: should do to get sort of into these next levels. 55 00:02:39,361 --> 00:02:42,641 Speaker 4: A policing is a hierarchy structure, so you know, everything 56 00:02:42,721 --> 00:02:45,921 Speaker 4: from not only rank, but status in a police station 57 00:02:46,041 --> 00:02:48,681 Speaker 4: as well, right through to the actual positions. 58 00:02:48,761 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: So you know, you look at it. 59 00:02:50,281 --> 00:02:52,361 Speaker 4: For me as a uniformed officer, you don't you don't 60 00:02:52,361 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 4: want to sit in uniform, and someone that probably sits 61 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,601 Speaker 4: in uniform for an extensive periods of time, probably someone's 62 00:02:57,601 --> 00:03:00,121 Speaker 4: a bit complacent or you know, not really a bit 63 00:03:00,161 --> 00:03:03,081 Speaker 4: a hustler like I'm ature, like I'm here to get 64 00:03:03,081 --> 00:03:06,041 Speaker 4: shit done. So for me, I looked at aspirations to 65 00:03:06,081 --> 00:03:08,201 Speaker 4: want to be a detective in drug squad, and you 66 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,161 Speaker 4: want to get involved in the adrenaline and the good side 67 00:03:11,201 --> 00:03:13,721 Speaker 4: of things and the hustle side of things. So you know, 68 00:03:13,921 --> 00:03:16,361 Speaker 4: you can't just be gifted jobs like that. You've got 69 00:03:16,401 --> 00:03:18,321 Speaker 4: to earn them. And so you've got to be known 70 00:03:18,361 --> 00:03:20,681 Speaker 4: as a person that goes out and gets drug siezures 71 00:03:20,721 --> 00:03:21,321 Speaker 4: off the streets. 72 00:03:21,361 --> 00:03:23,001 Speaker 1: You've got to be working in hotspots. 73 00:03:23,081 --> 00:03:26,121 Speaker 4: You know, Policing is like any career and it's like 74 00:03:26,201 --> 00:03:29,001 Speaker 4: any criminal type activity, and that is that when you 75 00:03:29,081 --> 00:03:32,041 Speaker 4: go out, you can choose to jump on the highway 76 00:03:32,081 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 4: and go for a drive and give out a couple 77 00:03:33,561 --> 00:03:36,641 Speaker 4: of speeding tickets, or you can choose we all know 78 00:03:36,681 --> 00:03:39,121 Speaker 4: who deals drugs in our communities, We're not oblivious to it. 79 00:03:39,161 --> 00:03:40,681 Speaker 4: So you can choose to go sit off his house 80 00:03:40,721 --> 00:03:42,361 Speaker 4: and roll everyone that comes in and out of it 81 00:03:43,201 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 4: and make it your impact that way. And so I'm 82 00:03:45,921 --> 00:03:48,161 Speaker 4: probably more inclined to the ladder in that, you know, 83 00:03:48,761 --> 00:03:52,521 Speaker 4: I chose to sit off known people that were trafficking 84 00:03:52,641 --> 00:03:55,561 Speaker 4: drugs in the community and people that you know, we'd 85 00:03:55,641 --> 00:03:58,721 Speaker 4: know where who would evade police. Like I'd rock up 86 00:03:58,761 --> 00:04:00,361 Speaker 4: to work every day. I couldn't think of anything worse 87 00:04:00,441 --> 00:04:02,801 Speaker 4: than given out a speeding fine. I'd rather be behind 88 00:04:02,841 --> 00:04:06,361 Speaker 4: a car chasing it in and evade, you know, getting 89 00:04:06,521 --> 00:04:07,881 Speaker 4: getting those types of results. 90 00:04:07,881 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: Like that's just sound on an American. 91 00:04:09,481 --> 00:04:13,241 Speaker 3: Bank robber encounter with a pistol and rob in the bank. 92 00:04:13,521 --> 00:04:16,041 Speaker 3: But the reality is that mindset, it's no different. 93 00:04:16,161 --> 00:04:19,001 Speaker 4: Yeah, the reality is that you know, I mean I 94 00:04:19,041 --> 00:04:21,921 Speaker 4: was a young guy in nineteen twenty twenty one, twenty two. 95 00:04:22,281 --> 00:04:24,681 Speaker 4: You know, you've got a couple of few young blokes 96 00:04:24,801 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 4: or even a couple of older blokes on a shift 97 00:04:26,361 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 4: and you're all ras each other up, and you. 98 00:04:27,961 --> 00:04:29,881 Speaker 2: Does it ruffle the feathers though of some of the 99 00:04:29,921 --> 00:04:32,441 Speaker 2: actual other colleagues around. I mean, I know in club life, 100 00:04:32,801 --> 00:04:35,921 Speaker 2: you know, we talk about certain things about you know, structure, 101 00:04:35,961 --> 00:04:37,921 Speaker 2: and there's a hierarchy within the clubs as well. And 102 00:04:37,921 --> 00:04:39,321 Speaker 2: I'm not going to go into the in depth of 103 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:40,721 Speaker 2: it all that I don't need to, and I'm sure 104 00:04:40,721 --> 00:04:44,161 Speaker 2: you're well aware of how it all structures, but you 105 00:04:45,361 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: definitely earn your stripes. And you know, for me, I 106 00:04:49,801 --> 00:04:52,481 Speaker 2: spent many years as a sergeant arms, so you know 107 00:04:53,001 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: that didn't come easy. You sort of don't have a 108 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,521 Speaker 2: lot of friends sometimes along the way because people get 109 00:05:00,561 --> 00:05:03,361 Speaker 2: a little bit jealous. There's you know, there's the circle, 110 00:05:03,361 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 2: you have your inner circles sometimes and then there's people 111 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,601 Speaker 2: on the outer that just throw the knives in the 112 00:05:07,601 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: back like it's just what happens. And I'm sure that 113 00:05:10,761 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: that would have been happening to you and the police 114 00:05:12,361 --> 00:05:13,281 Speaker 2: force at some stage. 115 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 3: It had to have been in such a small environment. 116 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:16,121 Speaker 3: Am I right or wrong? 117 00:05:16,241 --> 00:05:19,801 Speaker 4: Oh, it's all applicable, like I think you know you can. 118 00:05:19,921 --> 00:05:22,361 Speaker 4: I can provide scenarios. The number one thing is it's 119 00:05:22,361 --> 00:05:24,041 Speaker 4: got to be you've got to be ethical, because the 120 00:05:24,081 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 4: moment you're not ethical, like you can go out and chase, 121 00:05:26,961 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 4: you can go out and get results, get outcomes, but 122 00:05:29,721 --> 00:05:32,521 Speaker 4: the moment you're not ethical about it, people will all 123 00:05:32,721 --> 00:05:33,521 Speaker 4: take it backwards. 124 00:05:33,521 --> 00:05:33,801 Speaker 2: Step. 125 00:05:34,041 --> 00:05:36,161 Speaker 4: No one wants anything to do with someone who's dodgy 126 00:05:36,201 --> 00:05:39,441 Speaker 4: because it doesn't lead you anywhere. So the biggest thing 127 00:05:39,521 --> 00:05:42,001 Speaker 4: is one, you've got to be ethical, But two, you 128 00:05:42,121 --> 00:05:45,281 Speaker 4: then step into an area where so for instance, if 129 00:05:45,281 --> 00:05:47,841 Speaker 4: I'm sitting of a guy's house and then all of 130 00:05:47,841 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 4: a sudden the car pulls out, and you know that 131 00:05:50,001 --> 00:05:52,041 Speaker 4: there's gear in the car, you know that there's some 132 00:05:52,081 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 4: pretty well known crooks that are in the car. She's 133 00:05:54,481 --> 00:05:58,041 Speaker 4: on and if it's on on one person, and what 134 00:05:58,921 --> 00:06:01,641 Speaker 4: often happens is you drag everyone else in. And when 135 00:06:01,681 --> 00:06:03,681 Speaker 4: you drag everyone else in, that results and everyone else 136 00:06:03,721 --> 00:06:04,481 Speaker 4: getting paperwork. 137 00:06:05,161 --> 00:06:07,281 Speaker 2: Is that meaning for the action, there's a reaction, and 138 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:08,801 Speaker 2: that's like a clusterfuck at times? 139 00:06:09,241 --> 00:06:09,401 Speaker 3: Yeah. 140 00:06:09,481 --> 00:06:11,641 Speaker 4: Yeah, So you get involved in stuff that goes from 141 00:06:11,721 --> 00:06:14,481 Speaker 4: zero to hero really quick, and people sort of come 142 00:06:14,521 --> 00:06:16,361 Speaker 4: to work and they want to have a quiet shift 143 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 4: or they want to, you know, just go for a 144 00:06:17,921 --> 00:06:19,921 Speaker 4: cruisy drive, and all of a sudden you've just dragged 145 00:06:19,961 --> 00:06:21,721 Speaker 4: them into the absolute. 146 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:22,601 Speaker 1: Shit show of what's going on. 147 00:06:23,241 --> 00:06:25,961 Speaker 4: But my mentality has just always been if there's crooks 148 00:06:25,961 --> 00:06:28,561 Speaker 4: on the street, let's go get it, like let's I'm 149 00:06:28,561 --> 00:06:31,281 Speaker 4: here zero to hero every day. And there was a 150 00:06:31,281 --> 00:06:32,961 Speaker 4: group of guys that I worked with as well who 151 00:06:32,961 --> 00:06:36,161 Speaker 4: were really similar mindset, and I was lucky that I 152 00:06:36,281 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 4: was just on shift when I was young with guys 153 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,721 Speaker 4: who had that mindset. It's like, let's go out and 154 00:06:40,801 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 4: let's hook in and really, you know, make an impact 155 00:06:43,521 --> 00:06:45,961 Speaker 4: in this town. But then there are also people that 156 00:06:46,001 --> 00:06:48,161 Speaker 4: you work with who you know, they don't like you 157 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,641 Speaker 4: putting your name out and lights like that. They don't 158 00:06:50,641 --> 00:06:52,481 Speaker 4: want you to go out and rock the boat. They 159 00:06:52,761 --> 00:06:55,441 Speaker 4: you know, they just just let them do their thing, 160 00:06:55,481 --> 00:06:57,601 Speaker 4: and when they start to affect the general public, then 161 00:06:57,641 --> 00:06:59,841 Speaker 4: will step in, whereas me, I'm the sort of like, no, no, 162 00:07:00,041 --> 00:07:02,201 Speaker 4: let's let's rustle everyone's feathers. 163 00:07:02,281 --> 00:07:02,801 Speaker 1: Let's get rid. 164 00:07:03,041 --> 00:07:04,801 Speaker 3: How's your attitude with that today? 165 00:07:05,121 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 5: Just while I've got you on this right now, because 166 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,441 Speaker 5: I want to just grab you on that You now 167 00:07:10,761 --> 00:07:12,921 Speaker 5: are the bloke that's going to go and help that 168 00:07:12,961 --> 00:07:16,001 Speaker 5: young person that's just being chased by the coppers that's 169 00:07:16,041 --> 00:07:18,881 Speaker 5: looking at doing a whack you know they've got in whatever. 170 00:07:19,121 --> 00:07:21,801 Speaker 2: However it's going down, it's going down. Like you just said, 171 00:07:21,881 --> 00:07:24,121 Speaker 2: just flip that coin, describe it from the other side. 172 00:07:24,161 --> 00:07:27,001 Speaker 2: Now you are that, you're that shadow now looking at 173 00:07:27,001 --> 00:07:29,801 Speaker 2: this arrest about to occur, and it's going to occur 174 00:07:29,921 --> 00:07:32,441 Speaker 2: to the young person that you know that you've worked with. 175 00:07:32,521 --> 00:07:34,161 Speaker 2: You know, he's family, you've put a lot of time 176 00:07:34,201 --> 00:07:37,321 Speaker 2: and effort in, you're passionate about, you really care about 177 00:07:37,361 --> 00:07:38,961 Speaker 2: and I know that you have to care about these 178 00:07:39,001 --> 00:07:41,601 Speaker 2: young people to do what you do today, because it's 179 00:07:41,681 --> 00:07:45,241 Speaker 2: just you can't do what you do without a genuine connection. 180 00:07:45,321 --> 00:07:48,601 Speaker 2: And look, yes, we can go through the proata of 181 00:07:49,121 --> 00:07:52,121 Speaker 2: you know, you cannot get emotionally invested into this. 182 00:07:52,041 --> 00:07:53,401 Speaker 3: Sort of work bullshit. 183 00:07:53,761 --> 00:07:56,081 Speaker 2: If you're not emotionally invested in what you're doing when 184 00:07:56,121 --> 00:07:58,241 Speaker 2: it comes to helping others, and it's no different to 185 00:07:58,281 --> 00:08:00,921 Speaker 2: me or anybody else said there that you know is 186 00:08:00,961 --> 00:08:04,561 Speaker 2: in emergency or whatever you do, you will become emotionally 187 00:08:04,561 --> 00:08:07,521 Speaker 2: invested in a heartless fucking prick. Yeah, simple, And you 188 00:08:07,521 --> 00:08:09,321 Speaker 2: shouldn't be doing that if that's what it is. So 189 00:08:09,401 --> 00:08:11,241 Speaker 2: let's let's just flip that coin for a second. And 190 00:08:11,401 --> 00:08:14,521 Speaker 2: I just wanted to grab you in that moment. Yeah, 191 00:08:14,721 --> 00:08:17,241 Speaker 2: tell me, how do you see that? Right now? 192 00:08:17,921 --> 00:08:20,081 Speaker 4: I'm telling you it's very relevant. I've never been asked 193 00:08:20,081 --> 00:08:21,801 Speaker 4: about this, so I probably don't. 194 00:08:22,041 --> 00:08:23,761 Speaker 3: Not a clink either, that's right here. 195 00:08:24,281 --> 00:08:29,441 Speaker 4: So I think this plays a major factor weekly in that, 196 00:08:29,961 --> 00:08:32,161 Speaker 4: you know, we're trying to help this kid out. 197 00:08:32,241 --> 00:08:34,481 Speaker 1: He's got like he's a known offender. 198 00:08:34,521 --> 00:08:38,721 Speaker 4: He's on the street and the police like they you know, 199 00:08:39,041 --> 00:08:40,601 Speaker 4: there are some cops and they. 200 00:08:40,561 --> 00:08:42,521 Speaker 1: Absolutely harass the shit out of this kid. 201 00:08:42,561 --> 00:08:45,361 Speaker 4: And you just think if you weren't around and you 202 00:08:45,441 --> 00:08:47,761 Speaker 4: didn't bloody harass him, he wouldn't have got those three 203 00:08:47,841 --> 00:08:50,841 Speaker 4: or four offenses that you've forced him to. Like classic 204 00:08:50,841 --> 00:08:53,401 Speaker 4: ones are just offenses against police. Like, you know, the 205 00:08:53,401 --> 00:08:55,961 Speaker 4: biggest youth offender in Tazzy last year was an eleven 206 00:08:56,041 --> 00:08:58,321 Speaker 4: year old boy, one hundred and sixty four offenses in 207 00:08:58,401 --> 00:09:02,161 Speaker 4: six months, you know, and he's a recivitis recivitust defender, 208 00:09:02,401 --> 00:09:04,681 Speaker 4: and we've reduced his offending down. I'd say to zero 209 00:09:04,841 --> 00:09:08,481 Speaker 4: seid since July. But the police will still He'll walk 210 00:09:08,521 --> 00:09:10,841 Speaker 4: down the street, the police will pull over and they'll 211 00:09:10,961 --> 00:09:14,041 Speaker 4: you know, there'll be some type of antagonizing going on 212 00:09:14,201 --> 00:09:16,521 Speaker 4: and you'll tell me if you. 213 00:09:18,161 --> 00:09:19,161 Speaker 3: And he's charged with. 214 00:09:22,441 --> 00:09:25,721 Speaker 4: And I'm on the fence made because I did that. 215 00:09:25,801 --> 00:09:27,921 Speaker 4: Like I'm like, mate, I know this guy is going 216 00:09:28,001 --> 00:09:29,321 Speaker 4: to go out and he's going to do something wrong. 217 00:09:29,361 --> 00:09:31,681 Speaker 4: So let's pull over and let's be a bit proactive 218 00:09:31,721 --> 00:09:32,841 Speaker 4: here and have a chat to him. 219 00:09:32,881 --> 00:09:35,161 Speaker 3: And if you so to speak to get a. 220 00:09:35,161 --> 00:09:38,361 Speaker 1: Reaction, I think poking the bear, but in an appropriate way. 221 00:09:38,361 --> 00:09:39,721 Speaker 4: If I just pull over to have a chat to 222 00:09:39,801 --> 00:09:41,961 Speaker 4: someone and he starts abusing me, well that's on him. 223 00:09:41,961 --> 00:09:44,321 Speaker 4: But the reality for me as I see that is, 224 00:09:45,001 --> 00:09:47,481 Speaker 4: you know, as long as I'm not been an asshole 225 00:09:47,481 --> 00:09:49,561 Speaker 4: about it and I'm not antagonizing him, because there are 226 00:09:49,601 --> 00:09:50,841 Speaker 4: cops that do do that as well. 227 00:09:50,921 --> 00:09:52,601 Speaker 1: There are cops that pull over and go, you know, 228 00:09:52,681 --> 00:09:55,321 Speaker 1: what's going on to kid, and then you know they're. 229 00:09:55,121 --> 00:09:58,161 Speaker 4: Trying to incite something. I'm not about that and never 230 00:09:58,241 --> 00:10:01,601 Speaker 4: have been. But but I I can align now with 231 00:10:02,121 --> 00:10:05,521 Speaker 4: the focus that when we look at trying to actually 232 00:10:05,561 --> 00:10:08,881 Speaker 4: create stories of redemption which is literally my job is. 233 00:10:08,921 --> 00:10:11,401 Speaker 1: I'm trying to create redemption for young people.