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Speaker 1: Welcome to this special edition of Headgame. I'm at Middleton.

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Speaker 1: Today we revisit some of my interviews with the people

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Speaker 1: on the front line, those charged with helping and saving

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Speaker 1: others on a day to day basis. It's not an

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Speaker 1: easy task and not everybody is up for it, but

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Speaker 1: today's guests not only met, but have exceeded all expectations.

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Speaker 1: Shortly a fixture of Sydney's iconic Bondai Beach and now

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Speaker 1: an international star thanks to the TV series Bondai Rescue,

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Speaker 1: Bruce Hoppo'hopkins on what it's really like as an Ossie lifeguard.

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Speaker 1: But first, the military is in Heston Russell's blood, a

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Speaker 1: fifth generation serviceman who was involved in more than one

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Speaker 1: hundred combat missions. Despite the many successes and lives saved

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Speaker 1: the death of one of his men he was leading,

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Speaker 1: left the biggest scar.

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Speaker 2: July twenty twelve, deployed based in Tarran count and immediately

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Speaker 2: commenced two lines of operation. One was sort of counter

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Speaker 2: leadership and insurgents within Uruzgan and Kanadha and then the

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Speaker 2: counter drugs working with the DEA guys into Helmond and

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Speaker 2: during that five months, sixty seven missions. I don't like

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Speaker 2: it as a measurement. But we killed one hundred and

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Speaker 2: seventeen surgeons, captured so many more, and I lost one

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Speaker 2: of my best soldiers, Corporal Scott Smith, who was killed

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Speaker 2: by an ied on the twenty first of October.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember that day? Can you recall that day massively?

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Speaker 2: It was so we had been sent to conduct a

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Speaker 2: three day clearance, partnered with the.

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Speaker 4: United States Marine Corps.

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Speaker 2: They were the battlefield commander of that area of Keshmesh

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Speaker 2: Khan up near the Kajaki Fan and they wanted to

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Speaker 2: do a clearance and we partnered with a troop of

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Speaker 2: tanks Michaeltoone partnered with a troop of m one Abrams

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Speaker 2: tanks from the US Marine Corps, and we did a

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Speaker 2: three day rather conventional clearance from west to east. And

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Speaker 2: it was on the morning of the second day where

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Speaker 2: pushing on my teams up into this building that was

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Speaker 2: firing on our company headquarters. There's correz systems, so giant

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Speaker 2: wells cut into the ground that's got the waterway underneath.

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Speaker 2: You'd have insurgents going through those waterways, popping up with

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Speaker 2: RPG shooting at the tanks. We're uncovering massive cases of rockets, mortars,

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Speaker 2: weapons and all the rest. Yeah, And the biggest one

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Speaker 2: was because we had the tanks. They just set out

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Speaker 2: putting these IEDs everywhere. And I remember we'd literally start

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Speaker 2: jumping on the tanks to travel even fifty meters between

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Speaker 2: two compounds, and you'd just be popping as his loads

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Speaker 2: are going off underneath you. It was pretty incredible. On

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Speaker 2: that second morning, pushed my team up to clear this compound,

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Speaker 2: so big mud bricked wall compound where insurgents were firing

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Speaker 2: at our company headquarter.

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Speaker 4: Element.

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Speaker 2: They cleared that compound but immediately found hundreds of components

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Speaker 2: that would be made used to make IEDs. And Scott

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Speaker 2: was the special operations engineer attached to that team. I

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Speaker 2: had a team a section attached to my platoon, and

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Speaker 2: he immediately identified there were issues and he pushed his

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Speaker 2: point man back while he went and cleared this doorway

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Speaker 2: and there was a zero metal content pressure plate that

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Speaker 2: immediately detonated and killed him and blew him over about

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Speaker 2: three hundred meters worth of worth of span from you know,

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Speaker 2: a limb through to a five cent piece of him.

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Speaker 2: And as you would know, mate, straight away, that giant

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Speaker 2: plume of dust and smoke was a giant signal for

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Speaker 2: every insurgent in the region and then come and try

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Speaker 2: and drive their advantage. And it's still one of the

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Speaker 2: most inspiring days to me and I love reflecting on it,

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Speaker 2: for it was terrible, but it was so tremendous in

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Speaker 2: what it taught me about, like that true human spirit.

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Speaker 2: In Australia, we talked about the Anzac spirit. Where my

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Speaker 2: guy straight away, you know, we were I remember looking

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Speaker 2: around and the guys were.

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Speaker 3: Up, So where were you at this stage?

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Speaker 2: I was about four hundred meters back, and then I

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Speaker 2: had the call that there'd been an AD strike and

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Speaker 2: they read out his call sign was KA, and I

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Speaker 2: called over the nearest tank, grabbed my patoon headquarters, jumped

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Speaker 2: on the tank and just said drive straight for that compound.

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Speaker 4: I could see the plume of.

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Speaker 2: Dust yeah, of course, and then turned up and then

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Speaker 2: just went into went into action mode like we were

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Speaker 2: under an attack. As soon as we got there, we

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Speaker 2: got the tank to drive from that compound in a

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Speaker 2: straight line and punched a hole through the three meter

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Speaker 2: high wall and the next compound started moving the partner

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Speaker 2: force along the track that the tank had made. With

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Speaker 2: the track moving along, so we knew that was ied cleared.

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Speaker 2: Got absolutely pizzled moving between those two buildings. We still

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Speaker 2: got them through and then started trying to coordinate one

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Speaker 2: establishing a defensive perimeter, pulled the tanks up onto points.

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Speaker 4: Also had other.

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Speaker 2: Marines with, you know, like the Mark nineteen grenade launchers,

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Speaker 2: fifty gals, and they had my guys in roots cutting

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Speaker 2: holes in the walls to fire out of. And while

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Speaker 2: half the platoon established that position and we won sort

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Speaker 2: of that initial initiative and took it back, had some

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Speaker 2: harriers come in, had some apaches come in. Everyone wanted

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Speaker 2: to help. Everyone had one of the come and help,

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Speaker 2: but I was kind of like, hey, like we can't.

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Speaker 2: Everything was so close to us and the terrain is

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Speaker 2: that complicated. That last thing I needed was to get

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Speaker 2: in trouble legally as well. And then I remember looking

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Speaker 2: up seeing everyone fighting, doing their job, and then watching

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Speaker 2: you know the other half of my platoon, big burly

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Speaker 2: tattooed men on hands and knees, you know, for two

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Speaker 2: and a half hours picking up the smallest pieces of

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Speaker 2: Scott to put into these bags so we could put

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Speaker 2: him on the helicopter to get him out of there

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Speaker 2: and it was just so inspiring seeing that juxtaposition of

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Speaker 2: you know that the brutality of war and warriors doing

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Speaker 2: their job, and then just the care and love and

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Speaker 2: affection the guys had trying to make sure we got

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Speaker 2: all of Scott to send him home. And yeah, that

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Speaker 2: was pretty was pretty incredible. It was my job to

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Speaker 2: then carry him back to the company Sergeant major who

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Speaker 2: then put him on a helicopter and took him home.

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Speaker 2: And then we spent the next two days fighting on

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Speaker 2: to finish the mission. And I'm sure you can imagine.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite pictures on my desk at home

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Speaker 2: is I called in the team commanders after went back

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Speaker 2: to the company, dropped Scott off and just got them

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Speaker 2: around the map, pulled out a knife. One of my commanders,

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Speaker 2: one of my second commanders, put grenades to hold the

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Speaker 2: map down just for the picture point of view, but

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Speaker 2: just briefed everyone on the mission. Old school, no powerpoints,

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Speaker 2: no gadget's nothing, you know, the situation, mission, execution, habing,

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Speaker 2: Logistics Command and sig A. We got a new purpose

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Speaker 2: to honor Scott's death, not to take revenge, but to

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Speaker 2: find on, you know, so he would be proud of

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Speaker 2: this mission and those three days while we lost Scott,

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Speaker 2: And it's still painful to remember that just forged a

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Speaker 2: new level of matship and team solidarity. I've never been

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Speaker 2: able to replicate it.

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Speaker 3: Again in my life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and still stands and still inspires to this day.

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Speaker 1: How hard is it not to seek revenge or not

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Speaker 1: to let that revenge mindset sort of come into play,

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Speaker 1: because once a negative sort of emotion sets, it can

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Speaker 1: lead to a negative outcome, to negative decisions, to bad decisions.

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Speaker 3: And how hard is it to.

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Speaker 1: Keep that obey knowing that one of your men, you know,

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Speaker 1: had just been blown up?

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Speaker 2: Great question, mate, really great question, and particularly in that

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Speaker 2: context where you don't have someone to blame, it's a

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Speaker 2: bomb under the ground, so every insurgent is to blame.

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Speaker 2: And being aware, I think a big thing that the

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Speaker 2: selection course teaches us is to be aware of our

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Speaker 2: emotions and not let them control us. And I just

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Speaker 2: remember all of the emotions you spoke up, came over me,

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Speaker 2: came over my guys, and I think straight away it's

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Speaker 2: that relationship you have going into those crisis situations where

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Speaker 2: you can read those in each other and have those

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Speaker 2: upfront conversations, and particularly for me, it was using that

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Speaker 2: orders group to refocus that energy into the mission and

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Speaker 2: not into whatever anyone was driving in their own heart,

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Speaker 2: and talk about the importance of why we're there and

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Speaker 2: the long lasting impacts of what our next actions would have.

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Speaker 2: Because it's so easy. You're out there in the middle

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Speaker 2: of nowhere. You are the masters of your own universe.

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Speaker 2: I could call in the finger of God and give

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Speaker 2: my initials to give the approvals. You know, you could

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Speaker 2: completely be unaccountable to anyone else. But it was the

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Speaker 2: true test of service and those values as to while

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Speaker 2: you were there that you had to display and dig into.

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Speaker 2: And I honestly think it's everything that leads you up

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Speaker 2: to that process, being selected, working with a team, and

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Speaker 2: all the rest that really really make sure you're the

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Speaker 2: right person to go through those situations. But one hundred percent,

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Speaker 2: it's a team effort and you would nomain. Only takes

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Speaker 2: a few bad eggs or a few bad influences to

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Speaker 2: help it go the other way. But fortunately in that situation,

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Speaker 2: we were able to channel the energy for the positive

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Speaker 2: purpose that we still had.

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Speaker 1: What did it feel like as an officer? Yeah too,

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Speaker 1: And it's different for us. I suppose it's the same.

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Speaker 1: But you know, was it like as an officer to

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Speaker 1: lose one of your men on a mission that.

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Speaker 4: You were leading.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember struggling with emotions of shame embarrassment exactly

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Speaker 2: as you said, Like, this is my mission I'm responsible

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Speaker 2: for at the end of the day, good or bad,

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Speaker 2: and I had lost one of my soldiers. And it's

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Speaker 2: not a name on a piece of paper. You know,

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Speaker 2: he had a mum, he had a sister, you know,

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Speaker 2: he has a nephew, all these sorts of things, and

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Speaker 2: it's really difficult to you almost feel selfish thinking about

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Speaker 2: the sorrow sorrowful parts that impact you on your professional

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Speaker 2: career on all the rest. And I think it's just

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Speaker 2: having to again what I'm good at doing in a

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Speaker 2: pragmatic way, putting the mission and team before yourself, like

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Speaker 2: it's not about me. If the shoe had been on

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Speaker 2: the other foot and it was me, I know that

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Speaker 2: I would have died doing what I wanted to do,

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Speaker 2: and I knew that's exactly what he did as well.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's really going through a very pragmatic

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Speaker 2: process to understand and appreciate the emotions you're having, but

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Speaker 2: to again move yourself from the attachment. Yeah, and it's difficult,

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Speaker 2: especially it's a pretty hyper experience to learn it for

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Speaker 2: the first time. But I was just so fascinated to

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Speaker 2: feel those emotions of shame and embarrassment and feel like

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Speaker 2: I had failed in some way tactically and perhaps break

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Speaker 2: through some of that delusion. Whereas to thinking that I

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Speaker 2: could perfectly orchestrate warfare like it was a written script.

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Speaker 1: Was there ever a moment for you where you thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, I suppose combat fatigued, so it

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Speaker 1: kicks in and you think, you know, I need to

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Speaker 1: hand over the torch.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I loved it as those hierarchy of needs, that

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Speaker 2: self actualized version of myself achieving flow in combat, being

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Speaker 2: so in the moment, immersed and with a team and

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Speaker 2: tribe that I just felt so a part of I

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Speaker 2: would go back and do that tomorrow with the right people,

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Speaker 2: for the right purpose. Unfortunately, probably like yourself, I've since

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Speaker 2: been able to look a lot at the walls we've

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Speaker 2: fought and perhaps why we were there and all the rest.

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Speaker 2: But for me, my reason to end up leaving the

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Speaker 2: military actually came from a lot of reasons of the

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Speaker 2: heart and head. I fell in love with someone and

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Speaker 2: I wasn't sure how to mesh my personal life with

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Speaker 2: my professional life.

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Speaker 3: We fell in love with someone from work outside.

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Speaker 2: In America, and one year I went to the Rangers. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I sort of kept myself in the closets sexually throughout

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Speaker 2: my entire career, and in the US I actually got

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Speaker 2: to meet professional gay men. I didn't know who were gay.

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Speaker 2: I did own it as their identity, and I've got

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Speaker 2: to figure out, hey, I can actually still be Heston Russell,

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Speaker 2: the commander officer and whoever I want to be in

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Speaker 2: my personal life. But yeah, my last appoyment to Iraq,

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Speaker 2: where we helped to take the fight to isis one

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Speaker 2: of the most incredible deployments and missions I've ever been

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Speaker 2: a part of. He was back in la and as

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Speaker 2: the first time I've been deployed with someone back at home,

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Speaker 2: and at the same time time, I was deployed with

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Speaker 2: the general who was going to come back and be

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Speaker 2: the next commander of our special operations. He'd come from

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Speaker 2: a very conventional career and in his mindset, he needed

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Speaker 2: to get us back to haircuts, ironing uniforms, being the

236
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Speaker 2: Special Forces Brigade just refused to listen to any of

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Speaker 2: the experience that we had around him. And my next position,

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Speaker 2: mate was to start climbing the ranks to lieutenant Kerne

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Speaker 2: or going down the Canberra move on to a career

240
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Speaker 2: that was away from the guys and the teams, and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to be a part of So those three combined,

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Speaker 2: I took my long service leave, I followed my heart,

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Speaker 2: moved to the US to be with my boyfriend at

244
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Speaker 2: the time, and so I said about for wing a

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Speaker 2: new life from there.

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Speaker 4: Wow, they're right.

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Speaker 1: Wow, it was segue different, different, And throughout your whole

248
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Speaker 1: career were you always in the closet?

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Speaker 3: Where was it?

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Speaker 1: Did it affect your work, did it affect who you

251
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Speaker 1: were or did you just think? Or did you just

252
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Speaker 1: were you very good at compartmentalizing separating the.

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Speaker 2: Time mate, I developed this, there's different personality, Mike the

254
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Speaker 2: pe teacher.

255
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Speaker 4: I think we need another hour.

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Speaker 2: I was able to compartmentalize and separate, and look again,

257
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Speaker 2: you can imagine how hard it is for me on

258
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Speaker 2: the outside trying to explain military culture to know the

259
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Speaker 2: lgbt IQO plus community and vice versa. The cultural service

260
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Speaker 2: ad mission before self to a culture that's all about

261
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Speaker 2: being seen and being heard, and like, I get it

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Speaker 2: for those reasons, but I got to a place where

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Speaker 2: I didn't need to be recognized or accepted for my

264
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Speaker 2: sexuality because it meant nothing to what I truly loved.

265
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Speaker 2: That was my mission and that was my job, and

266
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Speaker 2: I didn't know how to mesh the two together, so

267
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Speaker 2: I kept them completely separate. I also didn't know what

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Speaker 2: gay was. I was brought up in a very conservative

269
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Speaker 2: family up in Brisbane. When I moved down to Sydney

270
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Speaker 2: and joined the Commandos, the first insight to the gay

271
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Speaker 2: world I saw was midrifts and drag queens on Oxford Street,

272
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Speaker 2: and the shit out of me because I didn't see

273
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Speaker 2: there wasn't another There was another gay special Forces person

274
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Speaker 2: that I knew of, and there hasn't been again in

275
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Speaker 2: the Australian military publicly, not that they need to be

276
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Speaker 2: at all. So I just didn't know what I didn't know,

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Speaker 2: and I was too afraid to be the first, and

278
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Speaker 2: I was too afraid for it to potentially impact any

279
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Speaker 2: form of stigmas or stereotypes within the guys within the unit.

280
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Speaker 2: Like this was two thousand and ten to twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: before the gay marriage vote, before all this, and as

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Speaker 2: you would know, mate, it actually doesn't matter, and the

283
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,280
Speaker 2: guys since had reinforced it so much. But as the officer,

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Speaker 2: as the commander, as a member of the special Forces,

285
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Speaker 2: there was nothing I wanted to introduce into the mixture

286
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Speaker 2: of our social engagement and environment in the workplace. To

287
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 2: do that was even more uncertain than what we had

288
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Speaker 2: to deal with. So I chose to put my sexuality

289
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Speaker 2: on the back foot. I was more than happy with that.

290
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Speaker 2: I never had relationships and all the rest till I

291
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Speaker 2: met Blake. And then again there was that natural divide

292
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Speaker 2: where hey, I'm done with this and it's time explore

293
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Speaker 2: this love thing that I've never felt before. Do you

294
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Speaker 2: think anyone new? Do you think anyone's.

295
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Speaker 4: I delayed.

296
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Speaker 2: I delayed telling my dadd a year and he reckons

297
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,440
Speaker 2: he knew. But he did your dad say he didn't? Yeah,

298
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Speaker 2: he found out here after mom and sister. But no,

299
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Speaker 2: And it's not that I prided myself on that.

300
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Speaker 4: I just love and.

301
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Speaker 2: I still love it today where people know me as

302
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Speaker 2: Heston Russell, not as any of these other labels in between,

303
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Speaker 2: because that's what I feel we have to aspire from.

304
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,040
Speaker 2: That'shere I feel we're getting it wrong in society. Like

305
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Speaker 2: I'm gay, you have to accept me. I'm a veteran,

306
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:38,720
Speaker 2: you have to accept me. No one ever will mate.

307
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,960
Speaker 2: It's how you perform in yourself and treat others like

308
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 2: your name is your label. And that's why I fought

309
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,360
Speaker 2: so hard to grasp for myself and encourage others to

310
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Speaker 2: do as well.

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Speaker 1: When Danny Brook followed in her father's footsteps become a

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Speaker 1: Metropolitan Police officer walking the streets of London, she never

313
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Speaker 1: thought she play a pivotal role in taking down major

314
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,040
Speaker 1: drug rings and sex offenders. But it's all in a

315
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,360
Speaker 1: day's work. When she was tapped up to go undercover.

316
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Speaker 5: Some days I'd have more than one job, one more

317
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 5: than one deployment, which was wild. But you don't get

318
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Speaker 5: the good, the good good jobs like pubs, clubs, festivals.

319
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Speaker 5: You don't get those jobs until you've proven yourself with

320
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Speaker 5: the horrible jobs. So you like the one the CD jobs,

321
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 5: so you have to kind of you have to do

322
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Speaker 5: loads of the horrible what we class as horrible jobs

323
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Speaker 5: before they will deploy you into a pub. I mean,

324
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Speaker 5: anyone can go into a pub and score. It's like,

325
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Speaker 5: it's easy, isn't it. I'd much rather dressed like that

326
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Speaker 5: than like some of the ways I was stressing. And

327
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Speaker 5: then for the decoys stuff, I did loads of decoy work,

328
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Speaker 5: but decoys rarely work. I think there's an hour in

329
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Speaker 5: the UK. There's now only five successful operations for decoys.

330
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Speaker 1: But my.

331
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Speaker 5: Successful decoy job. When I say this, that allowed it

332
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,880
Speaker 5: just sounds ridiculous. But we had a predator. There was

333
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 5: like over one hundred and twenty one victims of this predator.

334
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,199
Speaker 5: He was started with a bit of upskirting, bit of

335
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,960
Speaker 5: overclothing touching, and it was all schoolgirls. And they said

336
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,679
Speaker 5: to me, now this is where the banter comes in.

337
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,520
Speaker 5: And people are like, what is wrong with you? But

338
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:21,199
Speaker 5: you have to be in going through it. When I

339
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 5: got this phone call from my handler and he said

340
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Speaker 5: I've got this job for you and it's perfect and

341
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 5: he was laughing, I knew there was something not quite

342
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Speaker 5: right with it. So I went to the briefing and

343
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,920
Speaker 5: they said we've got your You don't need to bring

344
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Speaker 5: any kit. We've got the kit here for you. I

345
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 5: was like, okay, brilliant, amazing, Because sometimes you would get that.

346
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Speaker 5: Sometimes you might get a nice new coat to wear,

347
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Speaker 5: or if it's somewhere high end in the West End,

348
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Speaker 5: they'd get you a nice outfit. But I've walked into

349
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Speaker 5: this room and it was on a TSG base, like

350
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Speaker 5: the riot Riot Police Tactical Support Room base, which is

351
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,080
Speaker 5: never a good thing. That's never good walking in there

352
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,719
Speaker 5: as a UC because you know, but something really going

353
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Speaker 5: to go down it. And they pulled that school uniform

354
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Speaker 5: and said that's your kit, go and put it on.

355
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Speaker 5: And I was just like, I'm not putting on a

356
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Speaker 5: school uniform walking back in this room with this lot,

357
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,400
Speaker 5: and they were like, yes, you will, and I.

358
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Speaker 3: Was like, no, it's your job getting on.

359
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I went and put it on, and I

360
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 5: was just like I was really skinny then, like really young,

361
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,960
Speaker 5: really skinny, and I was just putting on this school

362
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Speaker 5: uniform and I felt such an idiot.

363
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 1: So so Danny just just just jumping back into that

364
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,719
Speaker 1: and jumping into your mindset, jumping into your headspace. You

365
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,400
Speaker 1: know you're going to be on this job for a while.

366
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Speaker 1: You're you know you're you're undercover. Yes, you're after a predator.

367
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 1: You know you in your head are you thinking, you know,

368
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:39,439
Speaker 1: we got to put it in an end to this.

369
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,639
Speaker 1: You know more, more people are going to suffer. You

370
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,520
Speaker 1: know you're ultimately you're serving the people, right, But but

371
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,879
Speaker 1: do you get into a sense of character? You know,

372
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,360
Speaker 1: it's not just the case. You're putting it on once

373
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Speaker 1: and away you go. You know, you're you're you're donning

374
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Speaker 1: this school uniform every single day. You know a year,

375
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,560
Speaker 1: you're jumping into into a different character. You've got to

376
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,679
Speaker 1: act like a young naive probably drunken schoolgirl, whatever it

377
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Speaker 1: may be.

378
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 3: How hard is that? And does it engulf your whole life?

379
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 1: You know, people go leave, leave your work at work,

380
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 1: and you know it's very, very hard to do that

381
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: with something like this because you know you're living and

382
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,120
Speaker 1: breathing it, living and breathing it until it becomes the norm.

383
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 1: Because when it does become the norm, that's when you know,

384
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,919
Speaker 1: that's when it works. How how what's going through your

385
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,639
Speaker 1: head and or you just running with it? Are you

386
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:32,879
Speaker 1: just you're just rolling with it?

387
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really funny you say that, because at the time,

388
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 5: I'll be honest, I was just rolling with it my head.

389
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 5: I was like, I work. Of course you want to

390
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 5: catch them. I'm super competitive. I don't like losing, so

391
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,440
Speaker 5: of course you don't want them to be smarter than you.

392
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 5: You want to get him. And there's been so much

393
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,160
Speaker 5: more of this operation before it got to this point.

394
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 5: You know, they've done surveillance, they've done lots of staff,

395
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,639
Speaker 5: but they just couldn't get him. They had one grainy

396
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,879
Speaker 5: picture of this guy. He was super CCTV aware, So

397
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 5: I was obviously keen to get him. But what I

398
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 5: will say is deeper jobs are very few and far

399
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 5: between with a good success, Like they're not very successful.

400
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 5: So I'll be honest and say I wasn't convinced we

401
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,680
Speaker 5: wouldn't necessarily get him. So you just, yeah, you're running

402
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 5: kind of and it's horrible because it's kids, and you

403
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 5: have to like it's just it's just not acceptable. So

404
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 5: you're like, you do want to get him, but it wasn't.

405
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 5: And we did it for two weeks and it wasn't,

406
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 5: which is a very short deployment.

407
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: So every day you're getting dressed in the same school uniform.

408
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 1: Was your routine, Like you're hanging around bus stops at

409
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,439
Speaker 1: peak school times, I take it, and you're having to

410
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: blend in and probably people have never seen you before,

411
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 1: Who the hell are you?

412
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 3: And you know, yeah, school.

413
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 5: Kids, the girls. It was an all girls school, and

414
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 5: they were like, I'm there in the same uniform as them.

415
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,400
Speaker 5: When they're getting on the bus, like you're not coming

416
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 5: on the bus. I'm like, I'm not going in there.

417
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 5: I'm not going today, and they just as a bit

418
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,199
Speaker 5: of a rebel and I was just going to like

419
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 5: not go. I was a new girl and I'm just

420
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 5: not going to school and I've been put there by

421
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 5: my parents because I'm naughty. Without going into extreme detail,

422
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,479
Speaker 5: yeah yeah, but on that particular job, we did have

423
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 5: a team because of course he could strike at any point.

424
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 5: We did have a team, so there was a surveillance

425
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 5: team around so if he did attack, they would get

426
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 5: him quick. But to this day, that was probably my

427
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 5: best job, even though it was like not as exciting

428
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 5: as some of the others, because some of the others,

429
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 5: you know, it's really intense when you're infiltrating an arm

430
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 5: robbery gang. That's intense. That's really big work. And this

431
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 5: wasn't long and big work, but the impact it had

432
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 5: after and now I've left, I've left that bubble. When

433
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 5: I look back at it. I'm really glad I did that,

434
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 5: and I'm glad it was me that did that. So

435
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 5: the last day of the job, this is really weird

436
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 5: as well. And you like what you said about mentally,

437
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 5: like you know, things in your gut and your head.

438
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 5: I don't know why the phone rang, my dirty phone rang,

439
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 5: and it was my senior investigating officer, and she said,

440
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 5: end exercise, go back to your safety location. And I

441
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 5: was like, okay. For some reason, I don't I can't

442
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 5: tell you why. I started. And I turned round and

443
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 5: there was this guy and he was peering around the

444
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 5: corner of like the it's like a corner of the house,

445
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 5: but it was like a bush and a bit of

446
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 5: a wall. But I'd seen him. I kept walking and

447
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 5: before I could even get myself together, I think, actually

448
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 5: that might have been something because in the grainy CCTV

449
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 5: he was similar, same address. But before I could even

450
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 5: get my thoughts together, I could it behind me and

451
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 5: he just grabbed me around the throat, put me on

452
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 5: the floor, done what he wanted to do, which felt

453
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 5: like it lasted for like ever, but it wasn't. It

454
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 5: was literally less than a minute because the team obviously

455
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 5: saw it. And they got him, which was great because

456
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 5: it was me and not another.

457
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 4: So what do you mean?

458
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: So he grabs you around the throat, so you hear

459
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: these footsteps and you've been told to endex so this

460
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: is like index. You know, listen, mission didn't work. So

461
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: he's grabbed you from the back, pulled you what pulled?

462
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: Pinned you to the ground.

463
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm on the floor. He's getting himself to a

464
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 5: position where he wants to be, you know what I mean?

465
00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: Ah?

466
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 5: No again, like again, It's good it's me because I

467
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 5: know that I'm putting myself in that position, and I'm

468
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 5: an adult and I know what I'm doing and I

469
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,479
Speaker 5: can I can deal with it. So I'm glad it

470
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 5: was me and not one of the girls because that's

471
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 5: it just ruined their life. It's just awful. And some

472
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 5: of the girls mum's actually wrote me letters after and

473
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 5: that's what I think. It's my best job because you

474
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 5: see what your work has impacted someone. And one of

475
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 5: the moms said that her daughter had actually been a

476
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 5: repeat victim, so he'd got her twice, not that he

477
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 5: knew it was the same girl because he just saw

478
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 5: the uniform. And she said in the letter that she

479
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 5: you know, her daughter can now sleep at night, she's

480
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 5: not weting the bed, And as a parent, I'm like,

481
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 5: oh yeah, but I'm glad it was me.

482
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,719
Speaker 1: And you can almost put aside all of all of

483
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: the fucking seediness, all of the the vileness aside knowing

484
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: that you've you know that you've prepared for this, You

485
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: put yourself in the fire in line to protect these

486
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: young girls. Is that is that how you? Is that

487
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: how you deal with it? Is that how you how

488
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: you move on with something like that, because that's some serious,

489
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,239
Speaker 1: you know, headspace to fucking try and try and deal with.

490
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, I think I just look at it as

491
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 5: a as a positive I've done a good job. And

492
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 5: it sounds cheesy, doesn't it, But ultimately it doesn't.

493
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't.

494
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 5: You signed up to a discipline service to serve your country.

495
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 5: You're serving the queen. We're there king now with the queen.

496
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 5: So you can't all of a sudden say, oh no,

497
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 5: actually I don't want to do that anymore. Like that's

498
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 5: your You've taken on that job. You know what you're

499
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 5: signing up for.

500
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 1: I love that because you know that's that's what the

501
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: same work when I signed up, is like, you know,

502
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: I was expecting to go to combat. I was expecting

503
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: to you know, to lose comrades. I was expecting to

504
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: potentially lose my life. And it's like, you know, you

505
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: you're putting your your ultimately putting your life on the line.

506
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: You're sacrificing the the ultimate which is you know, which

507
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: is yourself, to to get a job done. And I

508
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: find that very commendable of you because it's exactly how

509
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: it should be.

510
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 3: You know, you know exactly what you've got involved with.

511
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, okay.

512
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 1: Things might you know what happened to you as a

513
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: horrendous and you know what what you know, but you

514
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: just don't know, right, That's why you do that line

515
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: that line of work was it was it quite easy

516
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: for you just to brush that off and go on

517
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: to the next job.

518
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 5: Yes, but again down to the because of the banter

519
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 5: of my colleagues. So when we went back to so

520
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 5: for example, after we went back, they need to get

521
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 5: the uniform obviously because it's evidence, but they were all laughing.

522
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 5: You can imagine the banks, you imagine they're like, you've

523
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 5: got the money shot. They've obviously view the footage you've

524
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 5: got the money shot. I'm like, of course she did.

525
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 5: And then after this is a bit twisted, but not

526
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 5: twisted because I'm glad they did it, because otherwise you

527
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 5: could put yourself in a hole, couldn't you. They once,

528
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 5: once you went through call and they gave all the

529
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 5: evidence back to the police and it only gets destroyed.

530
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 5: But on this occasion they decided to dry clean the

531
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 5: school uniform and give it to me as a trophy,

532
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 5: which is.

533
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: Just like, this is I get it because of the

534
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: the It's almost like a yeah, it's like a medal,

535
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: isn't it. It's like and you know, people will go,

536
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: what the hell are you want about? But unless you've

537
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: been there and put yourself in those situations and understand

538
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: that the dark humor, the dark banter actually gets you

539
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: through these situations. You know, if you were just to

540
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: sit there and go, oh my god, that was terrible,

541
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: were you okay? And almost pampering to to something that

542
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: that you know that is there but you know is

543
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: in the background, and then it brings it to the forefront,

544
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: and then you know you're creating a problem.

545
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 3: How important is it and how did it help you through?

546
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: You know this this this dark banter or this dark humor.

547
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 5: I just don't. I think you don't give it enough time.

548
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 5: You're in a bubble. You're in this bubble, so it's

549
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 5: only after you leave you think about it. You go, well,

550
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 5: actually that was a bit much that or I won't

551
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 5: do that now. And there's loads of time I say that.

552
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 5: And as a mother of a daughter who is the

553
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 5: age I was when I was doing that stuff, there's

554
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 5: no way she's doing any of that stuff in a

555
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 5: million years. I think you just get on with it,

556
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 5: don't you. You're like your job. You just get on

557
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 5: with it. And I am really pro police, and I

558
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 5: will say I am pro The Mets in a complete

559
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 5: mess at the minute. But I think that it was

560
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 5: different then to what it is now. It was just different.

561
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 5: You know, we could banter, no one would be offended

562
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 5: with anything. Like I didn't care what people said to me.

563
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 5: I'd give it back and if I was upset, that's

564
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 5: my that's be on me.

565
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: Sydney's iconic Bondi Beach attracts close to three million visitors

566
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: every year. People travel from all over the world to

567
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: experience the warm sand, sparkling blue ocean and sprawling views,

568
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: but for those who find themselves in trouble that just

569
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: as iconic BONDI, lifeguards are on hand. Bruce hoppo' Hopkins

570
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: is just one of those lifeguards and he's been keeping

571
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: our beaches safe for over thirty years.

572
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 6: I was doing a lot of ocean racing, like iman racing,

573
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 6: and there's the big cool and got of gold and

574
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 6: everyone wanted to be an iman and at a young age,

575
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 6: and I had to find a job that fitted in

576
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 6: with be able to do a lot of training and

577
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 6: then also been able to compete, and lifeguard was the

578
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 6: perfect perfect match. It was he got paid, I got

579
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 6: to betray and then also on top of that, I

580
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 6: got to look after people and at the beach and

581
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 6: rescue people and save people's lives.

582
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 4: So I had the best of all worlds in one hit.

583
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 1: And when's the first time you actually witnessed the sort

584
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: of a lifeguard in action and you thought, cot wow,

585
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: these these people really deceive lives. Yeah.

586
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 6: I mean I looked up to a lot of the

587
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 6: lifeguards growing up as a kid. You know, they were

588
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 6: down there and they're doing the rescues, and it was

589
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 6: something that he looked up and thought, how amazing that

590
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 6: you know, these guys are going out massive surf, they're

591
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 6: going out in small surf, they're doing resuscitations, they're rescuing people.

592
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 4: It's just something that really was admirable. You know, we

593
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 4: really looked.

594
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 6: Up to all the lifeguards and I didn't think one

595
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 6: day when I was older, I'd end up being one myself.

596
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 6: But when I did become a lifeguard, you become really

597
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 6: proud and excited to be a part of that team.

598
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: So it's sort of like a natural progression, right You're

599
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: in the sea all the time, you just hanging around

600
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: that sort of community, watching people do their thing, and

601
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: like you said, you know you could do that along

602
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: with your training. Was there, especially back in the day,

603
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: you know, when you when you look at lifeguards, did

604
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: the whole aura of you know, being a chick.

605
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 4: Magnet and you know running.

606
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: Along the beach and because you know, we all watched

607
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: the Baywatch, was there ever an element of that that

608
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: intrigued you into the job.

609
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, well it did because you know, you turn up

610
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 6: the beach, there's plenty of girls around, there's plenty of

611
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 6: different people coming from all especially Bonda is all around

612
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 6: the world. People are coming and visiting Bondeai and yeah,

613
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 6: flocks of them. So it was something that yeah, it interesting.

614
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 6: It was just a great environment to be in. And

615
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 6: you know, some days at Bondo you go down to

616
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 6: the south end, you know, you feel like you're in Italy.

617
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 6: You could be feeling like you're in Sweden, you feel

618
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 6: like you're in England, depending on what you know. There's

619
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 6: that many different nationalities that are around, and it's just

620
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 6: changed the whole. The dynamic of the beach is amazing.

621
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: And was there ever a moment where before you got

622
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: into your lifeguarding, especially with being so active as you were,

623
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: there ever a moment that you realized how dangerous the

624
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: ocean can be.

625
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you grow up respecting it.

626
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 6: I mean you start serving at a young age in

627
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 6: Australia and you go out and you get held down

628
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 6: by plenty of waves and you realize that it's way

629
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 6: more powerful than what you are. So but you learn,

630
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 6: you learn where your limitations are. You learn on how

631
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 6: to use the ocean to your advantage. And that's what

632
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 6: I've been lucky to grow up with. And I can

633
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 6: use the ocean to my advantage now rather than fight

634
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 6: against the water like you're saying when people do get

635
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 6: stuck in ribs, they're fighting the water rather than just

636
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 6: letting themselves go and flow with it.

637
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 3: Because there's an art to it, Isn't that.

638
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: How hard is it to really study the ocean and

639
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: how hard is it to become a lifeguard here in Australia,

640
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: especially on the beaches.

641
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 6: Oh, it's really difficult because unless you've grown up with

642
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 6: it just to learn it real quick. It takes years

643
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 6: and years and years to understand how the ocean works.

644
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 6: And you know, a lot of people come over and

645
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 6: think they're good enough to get out there in the

646
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 6: surf and next thing you know, they get caught in trouble.

647
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 6: And I've had people around the world that said that,

648
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 6: you know, they've lifeguarding or they've done lifeguards before around

649
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 6: the world, but it's either in a pool that could

650
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 6: be lake and a different story when you get out

651
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 6: of here with plenty of waves and a lot of

652
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 6: water moving. So it makes it very difficult, and to

653
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 6: become a lifeguard, it's a big process to be able

654
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 6: to get to that level and have that skill. And

655
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 6: most of the time the people we get they've grown

656
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 6: up with it and understand years Each yeah.

657
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you learn quick as a kid.

658
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 6: You learn a bit quicker than you know that when

659
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 6: you're an adult, and just growing up with it just

660
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 6: makes it so much easier. And I mean by the

661
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 6: time you get to about eight nineteen you're coming on

662
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 6: as a lifeguard. If you're coming at that age, you

663
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 6: know you've had a good fifteen sixteen years of around

664
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 6: the beaches and understanding how it all works. And yeah,

665
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 6: I see young kids now four or five six years

666
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 6: old are getting out there on little phone boards and

667
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 6: you know they're learning. One day they may be a

668
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 6: lifeguard as well down the track when we get a

669
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 6: bit older.

670
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: What made you decide, right, this is what I want

671
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: to do. When was that, you know, because there's a

672
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: difference between doing the course becoming a lifeguard.

673
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: But when did you actually go.

674
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: Actually, I love what I do. I'm going to really

675
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: really to use this as a career.

676
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 6: Well, when I first started, I thought I'll just do

677
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 6: it for five years. Five years was like you've got

678
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 6: given a senior lifeguard title, and I thought, I'll do

679
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 6: it five years and then move on to something else.

680
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 6: That time came and I thought I was sort of

681
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 6: enjoying it, a few people left that were the boss left,

682
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 6: a few other people were leaving at the time. Were

683
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 6: rolling into the Sydney Olympics in two thousand and I

684
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 6: had the vision of where lifeguarding was going to go.

685
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 6: So back in those days it was really just a

686
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 6: seasonal job where you come in at September, finishing around

687
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 6: April and that was it. You had to go find

688
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 6: another work in the winter. In the nineties, so I

689
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 6: could see it being a professional and we'd lose all

690
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 6: the older guys because obviously that are families and couldn't

691
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 6: sustain just.

692
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: Not working in the experience all experience.

693
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 6: And I thought, well, I think we can make this

694
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 6: in a permanent, a permanent, full time job career for people.

695
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 6: And once the Olympics hit, that was the sort of

696
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 6: the stepping stone where we could really start. We had

697
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 6: to work longer because Olympics came in and around that

698
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 6: August into the September period, so we had to start

699
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 6: a bit earlier, and then we extended the season into

700
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 6: the May because the water was always still warmer as

701
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 6: well into May, so we only had a couple of

702
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 6: months that was you know, we weren't working, and eventually

703
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 6: we just said we'll try and go full time and

704
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 6: then that was the goal and get all the beaches

705
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 6: full time, and Bondi was went full time, and then

706
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 6: we look after Bronnie and Tamarama as well in the

707
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 6: way of the council area, and then that went full time.

708
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 6: And once we had the beaches twelve months of the year,

709
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 6: that created everybody to then continue as a permanent lifeguard

710
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,479
Speaker 6: and there's no more seasonal so and we retain a

711
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 6: lot more as well now because it's a full time,

712
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 6: permanent job. So it's basically just got casuals who fill

713
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 6: in the shifts when we need gaps or guys are

714
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 6: gone on leave. Most of them are like paramedics or

715
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 6: fieries or things like that in emergency services and come

716
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 6: and help out. And yeah, so it sort of came

717
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 6: about that way from the Olympics and I had this

718
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 6: vision that I think we can take it to another level.

719
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 4: And it was weird that everyone left.

720
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 6: I sort of fell into the head lifeguard role without

721
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 6: really even knowing it around the Olympic period and.

722
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 3: Natural progression of sort of thing.

723
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just sort of happened that way, and

724
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 4: I didn't really understand at the time. Why they just

725
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 4: put me in there.

726
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 6: But we had the stadium as a ten thousand seat

727
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 6: stadium that went onto the beach, and high tide would

728
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 6: block the beach because it was hit in the back

729
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 6: of the stand. It was on BONDI had the beach

730
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 6: volleyball down there. And then so we had to break

731
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 6: it into two beaches, so out the south end and

732
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 6: then the north end, and we came up with a

733
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 6: you know, we put a tower down the north, then

734
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 6: had all the main areas at the south because that's

735
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 6: predominantly our worst areas of the south end. And we

736
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 6: just came up with a plan and a patrolling strategy

737
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 6: plan and put that in place and it just really

738
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 6: worked well. And I think then the councils thought, well,

739
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 6: we've done that, and the next thing, you know, they

740
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 6: put me in the role.

741
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 4: And we continued on that way, and I'm going to stay.

742
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 6: And probably make this now my career rather than sort

743
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 6: of after the five years I'm out of here to

744
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 6: do something else.

745
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 4: And it was perfect.

746
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 6: Timing and without me even knowing or realizing, and then

747
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 6: I could just see where we needed to go with

748
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 6: it and how we needed to get the lifeguards to

749
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 6: a higher level, and it was just lucky that that

750
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 6: period happened. And it wasn't long after that, you know,

751
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 6: three four years we changed the whole service and it

752
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 6: became a lot more professional and obviously we do a

753
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 6: lot of physical tests and we dropped the times way

754
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 6: lower than what the standard was. So that made it,

755
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 6: in my mind, was if you really wanted to be there,

756
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 6: you do whatever you need to do to pass that

757
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 6: test to get on. And that brought the team a

758
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 6: lot closer because we just had people that wanted to

759
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 6: be there, and it made it a lot easier than

760
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 6: to to work as one rather than having some people

761
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 6: just there for the sake of being there and other

762
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 6: people are passionate about being a lifeguard, but then they're

763
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 6: being brought down by other people who just didn't really

764
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 6: give a stuff.

765
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: And yeah, so it would have been the opposite, right

766
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: the moment you go from seasonal to full time. Oh

767
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: I love that, mate, I love that because normally when

768
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: that happens, and you know, people who in demand, they

769
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: lower the standards and then the standards dropped just to

770
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: fill those places. Because all of a sudden you've gone

771
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: from that seasonal change to the full time change. That's

772
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: really interesting to know and were you part of that.

773
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it was me that suggested to get that way.

774
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,479
Speaker 6: So and when he did it that way to get

775
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 6: the people that want to be there. So people would

776
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 6: drop off because they've just asked, I can't do it whatever,

777
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 6: and then they drop off, but we got the core

778
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 6: group with people that you know. For an example, one

779
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 6: guy complained that I'm not going to lose some of

780
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 6: guys and a lot of people winging about it, and

781
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 6: so this guy so had we dropped it to thirteen

782
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 6: minutes for the in the pool, swim eight hundred meters

783
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 6: under thirteen minutes, and then we did the ocean test

784
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 6: after we finished the pool. But using the pool as

785
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 6: an example, he would swim, say, thirteen minutes thirty when

786
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 6: it used to be fourteen minutes. So he's going, I'm

787
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 6: going to fail because it's now thirteen minutes. And I said, no,

788
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 6: if you really want to be here, you'll do whatever, work,

789
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,439
Speaker 6: whatever you need to do to get under thirteen. He said,

790
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 6: I'm getting older and older. So at that stage he

791
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 6: was probably about forty two. So by the time he

792
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 6: gave it away and finished, he was probably in his

793
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 6: early fifties and early so ten years later he's swimming

794
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 6: twelve thirty, but ten years younger he was swimming thirteen thirty.

795
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing.

796
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 6: So because he wanted to be there, he did what

797
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 6: he had to do to be able to do at

798
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 6: the time.

799
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 4: So that's just got.

800
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 3: The standard is there then, right?

801
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: You know, and again like people that want to be there,

802
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: people that want to better themselves, people that want to

803
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: be at their optiments in order to save lives. And

804
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: when you want to when you go, you've got to

805
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: go right. You know your job, she knows her job,

806
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: he knows his job. Less, let's move together so you

807
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: can focus on your on the job at hand. So

808
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: did it become sort of a career profession? I suppose

809
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: where before it was like do you know what this

810
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: is just seasonal? Now is more of a career, right

811
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: you look at it's more more of a career because

812
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 1: it's full time.

813
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was always known when I first started, and

814
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 6: then the nine is always known as.

815
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 4: A job you did before you went and got a

816
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 4: real job. Yeah.

817
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 6: And then and then as you say, it went permanent,

818
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 6: and that made it. You know, once jobs go permanent,

819
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 6: they have to become more professional, and that's something that

820
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 6: everyone wanted that and enjoyed that stage on how it changed,

821
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 6: and it was really good because you know. The other

822
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 6: thing too, though, is you're getting people on when you

823
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 6: do a rescue. You times, I wouldn't put myself in

824
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 6: that position just going out in the water if it's

825
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 6: on a certain day, but I've got to put myself

826
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 6: in that position should get that person out of that

827
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 6: critical situation.

828
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 4: So you're putting.

829
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 6: Yourself in that's right, You're going against your instinction, get training,

830
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 6: and that's right, putting yourself into that position and can

831
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 6: be quite daunting and frightening at times, where you know,

832
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 6: and whenever someone gets into trouble, they always put themselves

833
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 6: somehow into the worst possible position they.

834
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 4: Could ever get in. And then you've got to go

835
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 4: in and get them out.

836
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: Because they don't know they're.

837
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 3: Doing exactly like me, the exact what I'm supposed.

838
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 4: To do, you know.

839
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: And what was the pressure like because at such a

840
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: young age, you're this you know young, Yeah, you've got

841
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: five six years under your belt, but in the ground

842
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 1: scheme of things, that's nothing.

843
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it was tough at times.

844
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 6: You know, because you were the younger one and you're

845
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 6: trying to call the shots and you had to earn

846
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 6: that respect. Yeah, because there's still a lot of older

847
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 6: guys there. They've been there a lot longer than I had,

848
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 6: and you just had to earn that respect. And and

849
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 6: it was funny though with I never realized till I

850
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 6: got older that with the leadership leading teams, because when

851
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 6: I was younger, I was always get I was very quiet,

852
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 6: hardly said a word, you know, when I was younger,

853
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 6: and but always end up the captain of the cricket

854
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 6: team or captain of the football team. And I always

855
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 6: and I said to a coach once, I said, why

856
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 6: would you put me? And I hardly say a word,

857
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 6: and he goes, no. But everyone respects you because what

858
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 6: happens is when you do say something, everyone listens. And

859
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 6: I said, okay, And then I've realized that now later

860
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 6: going through the career I've gone through that you've got

861
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 6: to earn the respect and you've got to be able

862
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 6: to do the job. But then you don't want to

863
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 6: be saying too much all the time. It's when you

864
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 6: do say something, then people listen, and that's how you

865
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 6: get the team working really well when they are in

866
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 6: that mindset.

867
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: And what are you looking for apart from the you know,

868
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: the benchmark criteria tests what you're looking for in a

869
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: team member.

870
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 6: Well, you're looking for one they've got to have the

871
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 6: skill level, you know, to come in. But that's not

872
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 6: the end game. You know, there's a lot of learning

873
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 6: when you come into the knowing when to beat a

874
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 6: certain spot.

875
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 4: And you know, we have a lot of banner in

876
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 4: the tower.

877
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 6: I mean, you could turn up in looking the best

878
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 6: you ever a look then still get ripped apart in

879
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 6: the bag and whatever.

880
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 4: So that's a that's a good part.

881
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 6: And so you need to have that and be able

882
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 6: to cop a bit of banner as well as well

883
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 6: as give it.

884
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 4: You know, you don't want to be someone that just.

885
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: Gets all upset and worry about getting paid out and

886
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: accept the way of bringing people in, isn't it and

887
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: in a way making them feel comfortable in a in

888
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: a bizarre type of way.

889
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 6: And then the other thing too is the observation and

890
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 6: being able to stand out in the sun and the

891
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 6: heat and keep the concentration. People don't realize they see

892
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 6: this this watching, but that don't realize that what the

893
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 6: stress on that And in the back of your mind,

894
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 6: if you come in have a bad day and make

895
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 6: a mistake, it could cost someone their life. Whereas if

896
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 6: you're in the office and make a mistake, just fix

897
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 6: it up later and you might lose a bit of

898
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,959
Speaker 6: money or something in the company, but you can fix

899
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 6: that up.

900
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 3: Have you ever had a bad day?

901
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean we've had bad days and we get

902
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 6: a lot of we cover the gap, so that's where

903
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 6: a lot of suicides happen up the gap, the gap

904
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 6: up at south Head there in the eastern suburbs, and

905
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 6: so we get a lot of the body retrievals.

906
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 4: And deal sponsoriality.

907
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 3: That's your area of operations. So we go up on

908
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 3: the jet scheme and people don't realize that, I don't realize.

909
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 6: So because the police boat come, it's about a half

910
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 6: an hour for them to come around the time they

911
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 6: get around, so we try and get there to secure

912
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 6: the body before they lose it all together. And so

913
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 6: we deal with that and then have to hang onto

914
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 6: the body. But now we've got to stay out in

915
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 6: the water till the police boat comes around. And that

916
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 6: affects a lot of the guys too. Sometimes and girls yourself. Yeah, no,

917
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 6: it's I mean early days, and then I've just accepted

918
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 6: that's a part of the job, and we've got to

919
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 6: train people into that that the longer you're going to

920
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 6: be a lifeguard, you really get a resuscitation, you get

921
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 6: a drowning, you'll get a suicide, you'll get you know.

922
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 6: Even today when I was coming in here, we had

923
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 6: a guy a massive drug overdase we're dealing with on

924
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 6: the beach. So there's a whole range of things that

925
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 6: we're dealing with that. You know, it can be quite

926
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 6: horrific at times, and that's why we bought in. We

927
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 6: always trained physically and we're always physically fit, but we

928
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 6: never ever trained mentally. So we brought in a guy

929
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 6: about five six years ago, doctor David said, and he's

930
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,959
Speaker 6: been working a lot with us, and to the point

931
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 6: where now everyone will if they've got an issue, they'll

932
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 6: come and tell you, Whereas back in my day it

933
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 6: was like if I said I had an issue with

934
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 6: pulling the body in, it'd be like a tough enough

935
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 6: to get on with it.

936
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 3: You know, you wouldn't even there.

937
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 6: And it wouldn't even say it because you're petrified that

938
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 6: they think you're weakening or something.

939
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 4: And they get rid of it.

940
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, and now we've sort of turn that around though

941
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 6: where because we could do a massive incident and it

942
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 6: might be saying one o'clock in the day, that incident'ce gone.

943
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 6: You know, the police, the ambulance whatever, take them away.

944
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 6: You're roll straight back out and keep working.

945
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: You're still in that environment, still in the same environment.

946
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: Not that you can escape it.

947
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 6: It's happened. It's happened there, that's right. And then so

948
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 6: we just then continue on. So now it's like the guys, oh, look,

949
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 6: I just need it now, break or something or maybe

950
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 6: to go next day they'll ring up, so I need

951
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 6: a bit of time off for and we go, okay,

952
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 6: well that's fine, that's you know, and they're now saying

953
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 6: that and coming forward. And so we've broken that stigma

954
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 6: of you know, the typical bloke tough that's not and

955
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 6: it's been good that way to.

956
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 3: Try change just that.

957
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: You know. Also being a good team member is recognizing

958
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: that as well. You know, sometimes you don't need to ask,

959
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: you know, you shouldn't need to ask if you were

960
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: part of a of a team like that. You know,

961
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: someone should recognize and go. You've just asked someone asking

962
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: if you're okay. Have you ever had a standout? It's

963
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: called a standout rescue. That's that's affected you. You know,

964
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: that's really sort of yeah, you've taken home.

965
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 4: There's probably a couple of things. My first ever body retrieval,

966
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 4: the body.

967
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 6: Had been there a while, and it was in the

968
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 6: nineties when you know, we just went out and grabbed

969
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 6: them and came back in and the guys I just

970
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 6: grabbed the arm, grabbed the arm and it'd been the

971
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 6: water for a fair while, and the arms is like,

972
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 6: come off this hour, the socker of the shoulder, I'm

973
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 6: hanging on.

974
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 4: I'm making it onto the arm, going what am I do? Now?

975
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 3: Your jokes? So the arm came off.

976
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 6: It came off because it had been the water for

977
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 6: probably a week or more. I'm just going, oh, what

978
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 6: we're going to do. I was probably early twenties, early

979
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 6: twenties at that stage, so that was like a obviously

980
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 6: I haven't back then, and that's the same you come

981
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 6: back in and they go, well, I was just sort

982
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 6: of dealing with it, and obviously in those days you

983
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 6: don't say anything if it is affecting you, and then

984
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 6: it was like I would just all you just go

985
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 6: have a beer after work, just have a beer and

986
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 6: turn up to work next day, and it's like it's

987
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 6: never happened, and then you continue on. So those sort

988
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 6: of things were probably tough in those days. There's a

989
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 6: rescue I did a fair few years ago that I

990
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 6: thought I'm going to have to let the person go

991
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 6: to save myself. It was that critical. So I went

992
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 6: into as a normal standard rescue. And when I got

993
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 6: to the guy, he was probably probably mid forties and

994
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 6: he was really struggling.

995
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 4: And I got to him. We hung on.

996
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 6: I just couldn't get out, just kept getting hit by

997
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 6: wave after wave after wave, and got stuck there just

998
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 6: behind the icebergs and with him with him, and we're

999
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 6: there and I'm trying to battle to get I couldn't

1000
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 6: go out because the waves kept breaking. I couldn't get in.

1001
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 6: He was just hanging on, trying to breathe. He's thinking

1002
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 6: he's going to die. I'm trying to calm him down

1003
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 6: as much as I could. But then I got to

1004
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 6: the point where going jeseu and kept rolling. The board

1005
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 6: kept rolling, kept rolling. I just couldn't get out of

1006
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 6: that position, and I thought, Jesus, the only time out

1007
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 6: of thirty two years as a professional lifeguard, I thought

1008
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 6: I might have to I think I'm going to get

1009
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 6: out of this spot. I might have to let him

1010
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 6: go to get because I'm starting a fatigue as well.

1011
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 6: I'm getting tired. We've been there for a while, and

1012
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 6: you know you're getting hit, holding your breath, going under,

1013
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 6: getting hit again, hit again.

1014
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 4: It's like getting ragged old and constantly, over and over

1015
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 4: and over.

1016
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 6: And I thought, anyway, I kept battling with it, and

1017
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 6: I eventually we got there and got him back in.

1018
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: But there was a moment that you thought, I'm going

1019
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: to have to push it.

1020
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 6: I thought I'd have to let him go to save

1021
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 6: myself and bring myself and he would have drown, one

1022
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 6: hundred percent.

1023
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 4: Wouldn't have That was That would have been the end

1024
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 4: of his life.

1025
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: If you want to listen to any of these interviews

1026
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,280
Speaker 1: in full, I'll put the links in the show notes.

1027
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 4: I'm at Middleton.

1028
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 3: Catch you in the next episode.