Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM. Next
Speaker 1: week Parliament returns and the government has a lot that
Speaker 1: wants to achieve, but there's a piece of unfinished business
Speaker 1: we're waiting for movement on, and that's gambling reform. Back
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, at the start of Albanese's first term,
Speaker 1: his government commissioned a review into the harms of gambling
Speaker 1: and when it reported back, it was unequivocal about what
Speaker 1: needed to happen to stop the damage. Now, as we
Speaker 1: enter the second year of Albanese's second term, many of
Speaker 1: those recommendations still haven't been acted on, despite there being
Speaker 1: popular support across the community to do something about the
Speaker 1: harms of gambling. So today I'm bringing you an episode
Speaker 1: we publish back in twenty twenty four which lays out
Speaker 1: the evidence and makes connections about the personal relationships that
Speaker 1: may be shaping Anthony Albanese's position. One of those relationships
Speaker 1: is with Peter Valandi's the chair of the Australian Rugby
Speaker 1: League Commission, chief executive of New South Wales Racing and
Speaker 1: the fierce opponent to reform. Today special correspondent for the
Speaker 1: Saturday Paper Jason kotsukis with the inside story of why
Speaker 1: the government hasn't acted on gambling ads. It's Sunday, February one.
Speaker 1: This episode was originally published in December twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: and was hosted by Ruby Jones.
Speaker 2: So, Jason the Prime Minister. He is famously a big
Speaker 2: rugby league guy. His team is the rabbit Os. But
Speaker 2: not only that, he has friends in the league. He's
Speaker 2: known to be close to the chair of the Australian
Speaker 2: Rugby League Commission in particular. Can you tell me a
Speaker 2: bit about him and about their relationship.
Speaker 3: Well, that's exactly right. So Peter landis a huge figure
Speaker 3: in Sydney, someone the Prime Minister has known for a
Speaker 3: very long time. A measure of how curse they've become
Speaker 3: is that when Joe Biden hosted a state dinner at
Speaker 3: the White House for Anthony Oberenzi in October last year,
Speaker 3: one of the people that the Prime Minister took along
Speaker 3: with him was Peter Flanders.
Speaker 1: Peter blandis, you're here for the state dinner?
Speaker 4: How did this come about?
Speaker 1: I look, we had lunch one day with the Prime
Speaker 1: Minister and we were talking about Australian sport and how
Speaker 1: it could be.
Speaker 3: Much the same way that his predecessor, Scott Morrison took
Speaker 3: brain Houston.
Speaker 1: To have a PM who's into rugby league. Is that
Speaker 1: a welcome thing for you? Look, it is also welcome.
Speaker 1: But he's also very smart, he can see.
Speaker 3: And then in May this year, Anthony Oberenezi backed the
Speaker 3: NRLs push to add another team to the NRL competition
Speaker 3: based in New Guinea. The Prime Minister views this as
Speaker 3: a way of strengthening ties with not just p ANDNG,
Speaker 3: but Australia's whole integration with the Pacific region, where Beijing
Speaker 3: is also competing for influence. They also collaborate on a
Speaker 3: funding agreement to upgrade the historic like Art Oval which
Speaker 3: is in the Prime Minister's Graindler electorate, with the federal
Speaker 3: government kicking and nearly half of the fifty million dollars
Speaker 3: required to upgrade that oval.
Speaker 2: Okay, So there's a close working relationship and also a
Speaker 2: close personal one. It's fair to say that Albert Easy
Speaker 2: and Flant is their buddies. How significant is that when
Speaker 2: it comes to the way that the Prime Minister has
Speaker 2: approached the issue of gambling reform.
Speaker 3: I think it's very significant. I spoke to one Labor
Speaker 3: insider who said that no voice has been more important
Speaker 3: when it comes to informing the PM on the consequences
Speaker 3: of a complete gambling advertising ban than Velandis. That same
Speaker 3: person put the AFL Chief Executive Andrew Dillon a close second,
Speaker 3: and that no one else, not even the Freeware Networks
Speaker 3: or Kerry Stokes or even News Corporation, has mattered as
Speaker 3: much in this is what the two sporting codes think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as you say, we have heard a lot about
Speaker 2: gambling reform this year. Can you give me a sense
Speaker 2: of why that is, of why this issue has come
Speaker 2: to a head at this particular moment.
Speaker 3: Well, right back at the beginning of the term, I
Speaker 3: think in September twenty twenty two, the Minister for Social Services,
Speaker 3: Amanda Rishworth, she actually referred this issue to a parliamentary
Speaker 3: inquiry and she asked them to have a look at
Speaker 3: online gambling and its impacts on people experiencing gambling AHM.
Speaker 3: That committee was chaired by a Labor MP, the late
Speaker 3: Peter Murphy, and was made up of ten other MPs
Speaker 3: drawn from both the two major parties and also the
Speaker 3: cross bench. And while they were working on that report,
Speaker 3: I think in May last year, Peter Dutton kind of
Speaker 3: got the jump on the committee and preempted one of
Speaker 3: their key recommendations. He used his budget in reply speech
Speaker 3: to announce that a coalition government would move to banned
Speaker 3: sports betting advertising during the broadcasting of games and for
Speaker 3: an hour before and after the game as well.
Speaker 4: In our country, footy time is family time, but the
Speaker 4: bombardment of betting.
Speaker 1: Ads takes the joy out of televised sports.
Speaker 3: Ten days later, in Parliament, the Opposition Communication spokesman David
Speaker 3: Coleman asked the Prime Minister.
Speaker 4: Will the Prime Minister work with the Opposition to get
Speaker 4: this initiative implemented?
Speaker 3: Now give a call to the Prime Minister.
Speaker 4: I thanked the member for his question.
Speaker 3: No one likes their footing more than Mate Alban. He's
Speaker 3: responded by saying that he was very concerned about gamely ads.
Speaker 3: He said he found them annoying. But he questioned why
Speaker 3: the Coalition was trying to move on this at that moment.
Speaker 4: If only they were in government sometime in the last decade,
Speaker 4: if only they'd had the opportunity to do something.
Speaker 3: Also that he was going to be waiting for Peter
Speaker 3: Murphy's inquiry to deliver its final report because you know
Speaker 3: that is what's appropriate, he said at the time.
Speaker 2: Okay, So when the inquiry did report back, what did
Speaker 2: they find?
Speaker 3: You know, six weeks after Dunton came out with that
Speaker 3: promise to ban sports betting ads during games, Peter Murphy's
Speaker 3: committee tabled its report You win some, you lose more.
Speaker 3: The committee unanimously agreed on the thirty one recommendations that
Speaker 3: that report contained. But the one recommendation that's caused all
Speaker 3: the headaches for the government is the one that has
Speaker 3: called for a comprehensive ban on all forms of advertising
Speaker 3: for online gambling, to be implemented over three years.
Speaker 2: So will the government listen to the evidence? That's after
Speaker 2: the break so Jason, The government said they wanted to
Speaker 2: wait until they got this report, final report before dealing
Speaker 2: with the issue of gambling reform. So once they had
Speaker 2: that in their hands, what did they do next?
Speaker 3: Well, last December, as the Communications Minister Michelle Roland was
Speaker 3: working through the government's response to the inquiry, Peter Murphy
Speaker 3: died from cancer. And I think that added a lot
Speaker 3: of extra emotional charge to this issue because it was
Speaker 3: almost Peter Murfy's dying wish that the government act on
Speaker 3: that key recommendation to ban gambling advertising. So when Parliament
Speaker 3: returned in February this year, five days ironically before the
Speaker 3: Dunkley by election to fill the parliamentary vacancy created by
Speaker 3: Peter Murphy's death, Zoe Daniel, the Teal Independent, asked the
Speaker 3: Prime Minister whether he would in fact honor Murphy's call
Speaker 3: for a full ban on gambling ads. What did he say, Well,
Speaker 3: he tried it out a form of words that he's
Speaker 3: kind of repeated each time he's been asked about this now,
Speaker 3: and that essentially has been that the Government is undertaking
Speaker 3: relevant consultations as you would expect us to do, he
Speaker 3: told Parliament then with all stakeholders. But by the middle
Speaker 3: of the year, the same day that Albanezi met with
Speaker 3: the NRL's chief executive Andrew Abdo, the government was in
Speaker 3: fact ready with a compromise proposal that it was prepared
Speaker 3: to share with all irrelevant stakeholders under strict confidentiality arrangements,
Speaker 3: and instead of a blanket ban on gambling advertising, Michelle
Speaker 3: Rowland had come up with a proposal to introduce a
Speaker 3: cap of two gambling ads per hour on each channel
Speaker 3: up until ten pm with a complete ban on gambling.
Speaker 3: It's an hour before and after live.
Speaker 2: Sport, right, So that's something, but it's not what the
Speaker 2: inquiry actually recommended.
Speaker 3: No, it's a compromise. But when news of Michelle Roland's
Speaker 3: proposal leaked, the Prime Minister refused to back it, and
Speaker 3: he told journalists at that press conference, you know they
Speaker 3: shouldn't believe everything they read in the paper.
Speaker 4: Well, we'll announce what our preferred solution is when we
Speaker 4: announce it, so i'd comment on speculation. Thanks very much,
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 3: One Labor adviser I spoke with told me that he
Speaker 3: didn't think Michelle Roland was very happy with the way
Speaker 3: the Prime Minister responded to those questions. I think she
Speaker 3: was hoping that he would say something a bit more supportive,
Speaker 3: that he would even be prepared to back the proposal,
Speaker 3: and their reading of it was you know that the
Speaker 3: Minister had gone out to stakeholders with a compromise that
Speaker 3: everyone was broadly comfortable with, and that Labor missed an
Speaker 3: opportunity to pass what would have been a significant reform
Speaker 3: that was in the public interest and that probably would
Speaker 3: have got a majority of voters on site.
Speaker 2: It is an interesting situation though, because you have a
Speaker 2: committee that's looked at the evidence and said that what's
Speaker 2: needed is a ban for ads on online gambling. The
Speaker 2: government has opted not to do that, but instead there's
Speaker 2: this compromise that's been proposed, but then when the Prime
Speaker 2: Minister is asked about that, he won't commit to it.
Speaker 2: So what's going on here and why is this becoming
Speaker 2: such a sticking point?
Speaker 3: Great question? And I think you know, one gambling industry
Speaker 3: executive that I spoke to said that, in his view,
Speaker 3: they didn't really think that the government understood just how
Speaker 3: complex this issue was when they referred it to the inquiry,
Speaker 3: and they said they didn't think that the government really
Speaker 3: listened either to the industry representatives who appeared before that inquiry,
Speaker 3: including the sporting codes, the TV networks, in the gambling
Speaker 3: industry itself, who all told the MPs just how difficult
Speaker 3: it would be to implement a ban. And I think
Speaker 3: the key thing here is how to replace or what
Speaker 3: is considered this vital source of revenue that's keeping television
Speaker 3: networks alike.
Speaker 2: Right, So where has all of this left the government? Jason?
Speaker 2: I mean, once the Prime Minister refused to back his
Speaker 2: own Communication Minister's proposal. Did the possibility of reform die?
Speaker 3: Well, it certainly looks that way right now. I think
Speaker 3: it's left everyone feeling very frustrated. Each week that Parlam
Speaker 3: has sat since August, the Prime Minister has faced questions
Speaker 3: on this issue from not just the crossbench but the
Speaker 3: opposition as well. We saw Tasmanian Independent Andrew Wilkie come
Speaker 3: out on Thursday to call a government a disgrace.
Speaker 4: I have not seen a more egregious and shocking abandonment
Speaker 4: of the public interest then this government's refusal to implement
Speaker 4: a ban on gambling advertising.
Speaker 3: I think all of this has left members of the
Speaker 3: government feeling angry too. One senior labor source told me
Speaker 3: that the whole thing has been very frustrating that they're
Speaker 3: still trying to deal with the unintended consequences for the networks.
Speaker 3: And I think you know, the PM has tried to
Speaker 3: defend the government's record saying.
Speaker 4: We've done more in two years to tackle gambling arms
Speaker 4: than has been done by any government since Federation.
Speaker 3: And if you look at the list that the PM
Speaker 3: recites often in question time, things like establishing a mandatory
Speaker 3: customer ID verification for online gambling, forcing online gambling companies
Speaker 3: to send their customers monthly activity statements outlining wins and losses,
Speaker 3: and introducing new evidence based taglines and gambling ads, among
Speaker 3: other things. I do think maybe that the PM has
Speaker 3: a point. The government hasn't done nothing, But I think
Speaker 3: for many people inside the government they think a lot
Speaker 3: of this debate is based on emotion, not hard evidence.
Speaker 2: Sure, but there is this distinct sense that you get
Speaker 2: that we aren't really getting the full picture as to
Speaker 2: what's happening behind the scenes, because if you look at
Speaker 2: you know, what's actually occurred. We've got a government saying
Speaker 2: that they don't want to act on gambling reform until
Speaker 2: an inquiry really properly looks into it. Then that happens.
Speaker 2: They find that online gambling ads should be banned during sport,
Speaker 2: and it's now been well over a year, closer to
Speaker 2: a year and a half since the government got those
Speaker 2: findings and they haven't responded. So bearing in mind what
Speaker 2: we know about the Prime minister's personal relationships, how should
Speaker 2: we be thinking about who the Aberanezi government is really
Speaker 2: listening to when it comes to gambling reform.
Speaker 3: Well, I think Peter Landez said to the Prime Minister,
Speaker 3: don't do it, and he hasn't done it. He said
Speaker 3: it's going to be bad for the NFL, it's going
Speaker 3: to be bad for the AFL. But I think really
Speaker 3: the Prime Minister has three bad options. He can impose
Speaker 3: a full ban on gambling ads that will upset the
Speaker 3: sporting codes and the media, and six months out from
Speaker 3: an election he doesn't necessarily want to be doing that.
Speaker 3: He could implement the compromise proposal, and I think a
Speaker 3: majority of voters who say they want to complete ban
Speaker 3: on gambly ads probably aren't going to be happy with
Speaker 3: a partial ban. And then the other option, doing nothing,
Speaker 3: is not really good for him either. The first anniversary
Speaker 3: of Peter Murphy's death is actually this week, the fourth
Speaker 3: of December, And while I think it's unlikely that the
Speaker 3: Government will announce a decision on this issue, it's still possible.
Speaker 3: Parliament's finished, but Cabinet will still meet right up I
Speaker 3: think until the week before Christmas. This is something that
Speaker 3: has to go through cabinet, So I think it's still
Speaker 3: possible that the Prime Minister could surprise us and come
Speaker 3: out with the decision.
Speaker 2: Jason thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3: Thanks.
Speaker 1: Ruby seven Am is at Ali show from Solstice Media.
Speaker 1: It's made by Atticus Bastow, Ariel Richards, Chris Dangate, Crystal Color,
Speaker 1: Nicole Johnston, Sarah mcvee, Travis Evans, Zotonfecho and me Daniel James.
Speaker 1: Ruby Jones is on to comment and we'll be back
Speaker 1: at the end of March. Our theme music is by
Speaker 1: Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of bon Below Potier. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for listening. We'll be back tomorrow with an
Speaker 1: original episode.