WEBVTT - Erin Patterson’s ‘ashamed’ tears

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Wednesday, June twenty four to twenty twenty five. Almost

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<v Speaker 1>three million low paid workers are getting a pay rise.

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<v Speaker 1>The wage bump announced by the Fair Work Commission works

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<v Speaker 1>out to be about thirty two dollars a week for

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<v Speaker 1>those on the minimum wage. A controversial so called supertax

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<v Speaker 1>is potentially up for negotiation. The Prime Minister says he

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<v Speaker 1>wants to work with the Coalition on real tax reform,

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<v Speaker 1>and that means potential changes to the unrealized capital gains tax,

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<v Speaker 1>which would hit Australians with superbalances over three million dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>Those stories alive right now at the Australian dot com

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<v Speaker 1>dot a U. A weeping Aaron Patterson says she regrets

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<v Speaker 1>expletive ridden text messages she sent about her former in

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<v Speaker 1>laws who died after eating a beef Wellington she prepared

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty three. She's pleading not guilty to three

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<v Speaker 1>counts of murder and a single count of attempted murder,

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<v Speaker 1>and she's giving evidence in her own defense in the

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<v Speaker 1>Victorian Supreme Court today. What happened when Aaron Patterson was

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<v Speaker 1>asked about the mushroom lunch for the first time in court.

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron Patterson returned to the witness box in the Victorian

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<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court in Morewell on Tuesday, the juries hearing evidence

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<v Speaker 1>on three murder charges and one of attempted murder relating

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<v Speaker 1>to a twenty twenty three lunch where guests consumed beef

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<v Speaker 1>Wellington allegedly laced with deathcap mushrooms. Aaron Patterson has pleaded

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<v Speaker 1>not guilty. We've used voice actors throughout this episode to

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<v Speaker 1>bring you the words spoken in court. Patterson said after

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<v Speaker 1>her grandmother died in two thousand and six, she was

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<v Speaker 1>one of a number of beneficiaries of the estate. The

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<v Speaker 1>money enabled her to travel around the world with her

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<v Speaker 1>then husband, Simon Patterson, and to buy a home in

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<v Speaker 1>Quinnenup in country Western Australia without a mortgage. Patterson told

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<v Speaker 1>her senior council Colin Mandy Casey. She gave loans of

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<v Speaker 1>approximately four hundred thousand dollars apiece to three of Simon

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<v Speaker 1>Patterson's siblings, with repayments only to cover inflation, and the

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<v Speaker 1>money enabled her to start a secondhand bookstore in twenty thirteen.

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<v Speaker 1>She and Simon moved back to Victoria.

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<v Speaker 2>Our son was a very extroverted child, and he seemed

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<v Speaker 2>to struggle with the lack of siblings and contact with

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<v Speaker 2>cousins and living in the middle of nowhere with no

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<v Speaker 2>friends to play with. We'd gone back to Victoria once

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<v Speaker 2>or twice, and he just loved being with his cousins

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<v Speaker 2>and Nana and Papa, and we wanted to come back

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<v Speaker 2>for him. And secondly, I was trying and ended up

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<v Speaker 2>being pregnant with our daughter. I wanted to be near

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<v Speaker 2>Don and Gail when we had her.

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<v Speaker 1>Don and Gale Patterson were Simon Patterson's parents, who would

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<v Speaker 1>both die in twenty twenty three after eating Aaron Patterson's

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<v Speaker 1>beef Wellington.

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<v Speaker 3>And during that time after twenty fifteen, how was your

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<v Speaker 3>relationship with Donna and Gail?

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<v Speaker 2>It never changed. I was just their daughter in Lauren.

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<v Speaker 2>They continued to love me.

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<v Speaker 3>So does that mean that in terms of Don and Gail,

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<v Speaker 3>you and the children continued to see them often?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we did. We went to their house often for

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<v Speaker 2>lunch with Simon. Without Simon. They would drop in and

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<v Speaker 2>knock on my door, sometimes drop things off. They'd have

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<v Speaker 2>my son over to play and have sleepovers. They were

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<v Speaker 2>very involved.

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<v Speaker 1>Mandy asked Patterson about Heather and Ian Wilkinson, who was

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<v Speaker 1>the pastor at Cornborough Baptist Church.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'd always have a chat with them after church

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<v Speaker 2>if I could. Ian was very popular as the pastor

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<v Speaker 2>and always had a lot of people wanting to talk

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<v Speaker 2>to them. But Heather would always make a point of

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<v Speaker 2>coming to talk to me, and I saw them sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>at Christmas gatherings outside of the family, and I probably

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<v Speaker 2>didn't get to chat to Ian so much, but Heather

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<v Speaker 2>would always go out of her way to come and

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<v Speaker 2>sit with me and make sure that I had company.

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<v Speaker 1>She was asked about Facebook chats the jury has previously

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<v Speaker 1>been shown. Mandy wanted to know what was her attitude

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<v Speaker 1>to religion during those years or to God.

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<v Speaker 2>It remained how it had been since two thousand and five.

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<v Speaker 2>I was and am a Christian.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you ever tell Christine Hunt that you were an atheist?

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<v Speaker 1>No, I didn't know, Patterson said she would have only

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<v Speaker 1>said that she was previously an atheist. Patterson described the

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<v Speaker 1>sale of various properties and the purchase of a family

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<v Speaker 1>home in Lee and Gatha, which was put into both

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<v Speaker 1>her and Simon Patterson's names.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, from my perspective, it was I always I thought

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<v Speaker 2>we would bring the family back together. That was what

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted, and I did that because I wanted some

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<v Speaker 2>way to demonstrate to Simon that that's what I really

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<v Speaker 2>believed and wanted. It was something tangible to say I

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<v Speaker 2>see a future for us.

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<v Speaker 1>Mandy asked about Patterson's health records over the years, including

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<v Speaker 1>a GP visit in twenty twenty one when she feared

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<v Speaker 1>she had ovarian cancer.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd been having for a few months by then, a

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<v Speaker 2>multitude of symptoms. I felt very fatigued. I had ongoing

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<v Speaker 2>abdominal pain. I had chronic headaches. I put on a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of weight in quite a short period of time,

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<v Speaker 2>and had like my feet and my hands seemed to

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<v Speaker 2>retain a lot of fluid.

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<v Speaker 3>Now the notes indicate this, Aaron worried about ovarian cancer,

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<v Speaker 3>has been googling her symptoms. That's right, yep, is that

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<v Speaker 3>what you'd been doing? I had yeap, I consulted doctor Google.

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<v Speaker 1>Patterson said she'd struggled to get any health professional to

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<v Speaker 1>listen to her. Her concerns about her baby daughter too, So.

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<v Speaker 2>Right from when she was born, I thought there was

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<v Speaker 2>something wrong. She cried a lot, but not normal crying.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd already had one baby by then, and I knew

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<v Speaker 2>what to expect. She cried a lot for long durations

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<v Speaker 2>that I thought demonstrated pain, and I took her to

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of doctors and even the hospital, and what

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<v Speaker 2>they communicated to me was I was an over anxious

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<v Speaker 2>mother and she would just relax and she's just a

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<v Speaker 2>normal baby.

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<v Speaker 1>She said. With both her daughter and son, they turned

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<v Speaker 1>out to have medical issues that doctors hadn't been able

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<v Speaker 1>to diagnose. Patterson said it all undermined her faith in medicos.

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<v Speaker 1>She requested a brain MRI, and when that came back negative,

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<v Speaker 1>asked for a spinal MRI. She googled ovarian cancer, brain tumors,

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<v Speaker 1>ovarian cancer that metastasized to the brain and lungs, heart conditions, lupus,

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<v Speaker 1>and multiple sclerosis.

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<v Speaker 2>The train just kept going. I think I wasted a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of time, not just my time, but medical people's

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<v Speaker 2>time through all my doctor googling. It's hard to justify it,

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<v Speaker 2>but with the benefit of hindsight, I can see that, like,

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<v Speaker 2>I just lost so much faith in the medical system

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<v Speaker 2>that I decided that anything to do with my health

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<v Speaker 2>or the children's health. I'm going to have to solve

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<v Speaker 2>that problem myself. But there's a reason why doctors have

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<v Speaker 2>medical training to enable them to navigate their way through

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<v Speaker 2>it so that every headache is not a brain tumor.

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<v Speaker 1>Mandy turned to Patterson's relationship with her husband, Simon and

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<v Speaker 1>how it deteriorated in twenty twenty two during a dispute

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<v Speaker 1>about child support payments.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd been preparing to do my tax return, and as

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<v Speaker 2>we always did, I asked Simon for his income to

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<v Speaker 2>put down on my tax return and wanted to give

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<v Speaker 2>him mine. It arose out of the discussions that he'd

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<v Speaker 2>put himself down as single on the tax return, so

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<v Speaker 2>that wasn't necessary anymore. She said.

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<v Speaker 1>She wanted to claim the family tax bear, and to

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<v Speaker 1>do that had to put in a child support application

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<v Speaker 1>to cent a link. She said Simon Patterson seemed agreeable

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<v Speaker 1>to that. In October of twenty twenty two, Patterson became

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<v Speaker 1>upset about finding out on a Friday that the following

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<v Speaker 1>day would be a seventieth birthday lunch for her mother

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<v Speaker 1>in law, Gail Patterson.

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<v Speaker 2>I felt hurt because I thought I'd been left off

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<v Speaker 2>the invite list, and I was also annoyed with myself

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<v Speaker 2>because I'd forgotten that it was a big birthday coming

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<v Speaker 2>up for Gail. But yeah, I was hurt.

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<v Speaker 1>In November twenty twenty two, another dispute, Patterson asked Simon

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<v Speaker 1>to pay for an anesthetist bill for their son. The

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<v Speaker 1>jury was shown a text message exchange between Simon and

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron Patterson.

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<v Speaker 2>The Department of Human Services instructed me not to pay

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<v Speaker 2>you anything for the kids from now on, So I

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<v Speaker 2>cannot pay that. I'm afraid it's not paying me'sying he's anthetist.

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<v Speaker 1>On December five, it flared up again during a discussion

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<v Speaker 1>about their son's pocket money.

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<v Speaker 2>You can cancel your pocket money transfers into the Department

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<v Speaker 2>of Human Services told you not to pay for anything

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<v Speaker 2>for the kids anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>In court, Aaron Patterson said.

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<v Speaker 2>It looks like I was being a little bit petty

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<v Speaker 2>in that response. By the last sentence, I was clearly

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<v Speaker 2>using his words back to him. I was being a

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<v Speaker 2>bit petty.

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<v Speaker 1>She tried to involve Don and Gail Patterson in mediation

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<v Speaker 1>about how the children's school fees would be paid.

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<v Speaker 2>Overwritingly, they thought that Simon and I should set all

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<v Speaker 2>the issue together, but they didn't want to become like

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<v Speaker 2>official mediators.

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<v Speaker 1>Patterson said she vented in frustration on a Facebook group

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<v Speaker 1>with women she'd been speaking to online since twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 2>This family, I swear to fucking God, I'm sick of

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<v Speaker 2>this shit, so fuck it. Nobody listens to me at

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<v Speaker 2>least so I know they're a lost cause.

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<v Speaker 1>In court, Patterson said she was stressed and believed this

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<v Speaker 1>was a private chat.

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<v Speaker 2>I wish I'd never said it. I feel very I

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<v Speaker 2>feel ashamed for saying it, and I wish the family

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<v Speaker 2>didn't have to hear that I said that. They didn't

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<v Speaker 2>deserve it.

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<v Speaker 3>Why did you write that to your Facebook friends?

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<v Speaker 2>I needed to vent. I needed to get my frustration

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<v Speaker 2>off my chest. And the choice was either to go

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<v Speaker 2>into the paddic and tell it to the sheep or

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<v Speaker 2>vent to these women. But I regret the language that

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<v Speaker 2>I used, but I knew that they would rally around me.

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<v Speaker 2>I probably played up the emotion a little bit to

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<v Speaker 2>get that support.

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<v Speaker 3>And did you mean those things?

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<v Speaker 2>No? I didn't. I was really frustrated with Simon, but

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't don in Gale's fault. It wasn't the family's fault.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't even entirely Simon's fault. I played a part

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<v Speaker 2>in the issue too.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you understand that then?

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<v Speaker 2>I think at the time I thought I was right

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<v Speaker 2>and he was wrong. But I reflected on it a

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<v Speaker 2>lot in New Zealand and I realized that I was

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<v Speaker 2>wrong to try and involve Donn Gale and I should

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<v Speaker 2>have approached it differently with Simon.

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron Patterson told the jury she'd battled her weight and

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<v Speaker 1>self esteem since adolescence.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was a kid, my mum would weigh us

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<v Speaker 2>every week to make sure we weren't putting on too

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<v Speaker 2>much weight, and so I went to the extreme of

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<v Speaker 2>barely eating. Then through my adulthood going the other way

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<v Speaker 2>and binging. I suppose, for one of a better word.

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<v Speaker 2>I never had a good relationship with food, a healthy relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>She said she would throw up after binge eating something

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<v Speaker 1>she did in secret while the children were.

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<v Speaker 3>At school, and who knew about it?

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody? Nobody, everybody now, but nobody knew then.

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<v Speaker 1>Patterson said she'd picked and cooked mushrooms since first noticing

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<v Speaker 1>their proliferation in the local area on family walks during

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 3>Had you always liked eating mushrooms. Yeah, I had why.

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<v Speaker 2>They taste good and they're very healthy.

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<v Speaker 3>In terms of varieties of mushrooms, did you eat different varieties?

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<v Speaker 2>I did. I'd buy all the different types that woolies

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<v Speaker 2>would sell. We'd have local farmers markets and I'd get

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<v Speaker 2>different sorts there from grocers up in Melbourne. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>tried all of them. I'd use them in curries or

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<v Speaker 2>pasta dishes or soup, spaghetti.

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<v Speaker 3>And what did you like about the more exotic mushrooms?

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<v Speaker 2>They just taste more interesting, more flavor.

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<v Speaker 1>She said she found field and horse mushrooms in the

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<v Speaker 1>paddocks on her own property, and also foraged in places

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<v Speaker 1>like the local botanic gardens and rail trail. She said

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<v Speaker 1>there was one type of mushroom growing in her back

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<v Speaker 1>paddock that she wasn't able to identify, so she didn't

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<v Speaker 1>eat those. And she said her children sometimes helped her

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<v Speaker 1>to pick mushrooms when they.

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<v Speaker 3>Were out and about.

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<v Speaker 2>When I got to a point where I was confident

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<v Speaker 2>about what I thought they were, I cut a bit

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<v Speaker 2>off one of the mushrooms, fried it up with some

0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.760
<v Speaker 2>butter ate it and then saw what happened. And what

0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.439
<v Speaker 2>happened they tasted good and I didn't get sick.

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<v Speaker 3>And thereafter? What did you do with the mushrooms that

0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:10.520
<v Speaker 3>you found on that property?

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<v Speaker 2>So? If I saw mushrooms, the same mushrooms growing, I

0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:16.960
<v Speaker 2>would usually pick them and eat them and sometimes put

0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.080
<v Speaker 2>them in meals. We all ate.

0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:20.880
<v Speaker 3>You said you put them in meals? We all ate?

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<v Speaker 3>Does that mean you and the children?

0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Yep?

0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:25.640
<v Speaker 3>How did you put them in the children's meals? What

0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:26.200
<v Speaker 3>did you do?

0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.560
<v Speaker 2>I chopped them up very very small so they couldn't

0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:30.520
<v Speaker 2>pick them out.

0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.440
<v Speaker 1>Coming up, Pattison is asked for the first time in

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:55.800
<v Speaker 1>court about the fatal lunch. For the first time in

0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.920
<v Speaker 1>this trial, Aaron Patterson was asked directly on Tuesday afternoon

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.439
<v Speaker 1>about the fatal mushroom lunch.

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<v Speaker 3>In terms of the meal that you cooked for the lunch,

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<v Speaker 3>which is the subject of this trial. Do you accept

0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.560
<v Speaker 3>that there must have been deathcap mushrooms in that meal? Yes?

0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 2>I do.

0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.160
<v Speaker 3>And speaking globally, do you remember where the mushrooms that

0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.760
<v Speaker 3>went into that meal came from? So all of the

0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:19.800
<v Speaker 3>mushrooms that went into that meal.

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Right, So the vast majority came from the local Woolworths

0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.560
<v Speaker 2>in Leongatha, and there were some from the grocer in Melbourne.

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<v Speaker 3>So there's been evidence that you told people that you

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 3>bought some mushrooms from an Asian groser in April. That's right.

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.360
<v Speaker 3>Do you remember that event? Is that an event clear

0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 3>in your mind.

0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Not the specific purchase of them. No, it's not clear.

0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.400
<v Speaker 1>Patterson said she remembered going to an Asian grocer in

0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.200
<v Speaker 1>the April school holidays when she and the children were

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 1>staying at Mount Waverley, but that she had also done

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:55.840
<v Speaker 1>so on previous occasions.

0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 2>There was Shitaki Poccini. I think an Oki was one

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.000
<v Speaker 2>of them. Sometimes the bags might say something like wild

0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.320
<v Speaker 2>mushroom mix or forest mushroom like they wouldn't be specific

0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:08.360
<v Speaker 2>about the types of them.

0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Patterson said she bought a dehydrator in twenty twenty three

0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.640
<v Speaker 1>to better preserve mushrooms, and would dehydrate specimens, including button

0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 1>mushrooms she brought from Woolworths, then store them in a

0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.400
<v Speaker 1>plastic container in her pantry. The jury heard she made

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 1>a social media post that said.

0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.600
<v Speaker 2>So fun fact, dehydrator reduces mushroom mass by ninety percent.

0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Colin Mandy took her back to the mushrooms she bought

0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.920
<v Speaker 1>from an Asian grocer in April twenty twenty three.

0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:41.680
<v Speaker 2>I remember that I was going to use them the

0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 2>day that I bought them, but they were very pungent.

0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.320
<v Speaker 2>I didn't think that would be a great smell for

0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.160
<v Speaker 2>what I was making, so I just put them in

0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.720
<v Speaker 2>a container and put them in the pantry at that point.

0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 3>And what happened to that container in the pantry?

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.760
<v Speaker 2>So I took the container back home to Gibson Street

0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 2>when we went home.

0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Gibson Street is Aaron Padda since home in LeeAnne Gatha,

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.000
<v Speaker 1>where the fatal lunch would be held. Three months later.

0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.120
<v Speaker 1>She said those mushrooms were still in the container in

0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:11.680
<v Speaker 1>the pantry when she later dehydrated mushrooms in May and June.

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 3>Do you have a memory of putting wild mushrooms that

0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.560
<v Speaker 3>you dehydrated in May or June of twenty twenty three

0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 3>into a container which already contained other dried mushrooms.

0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I did do that.

0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.760
<v Speaker 1>At that point, Justice Christopher Beale called an end to

0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:37.120
<v Speaker 1>the day. Aaron Patterson will return to the witness box

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.520
<v Speaker 1>on Wednesday, June four at ten thirty am. You can

0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.080
<v Speaker 1>follow proceedings live reported by our colleagues Ellie Dudley and

0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 1>John Ferguson from the courtroom. By joining our subscribers at

0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.160
<v Speaker 1>Theaustralian dot com dot au