Speaker 1: Apogee production. Ryan Whitwell Dwyer's sister murdered their granddad. She's
Speaker 1: currently serving twenty years for his murder, all to try
Speaker 1: and steal one hundred thousand dollars in cash that he'd
Speaker 1: stashed in his house. In the last episode, we heard
Speaker 1: how Brittany and another friend, Shelby, drove to Adelaide from Brisbane.
Speaker 1: They unsuccessfully tried to jump the fence and find cash
Speaker 1: hid in Robert shed. They left Adelaide empty handed.
Speaker 2: He really jumped into security mode and he actually had
Speaker 2: all of his the color bond defences heightened. He actually
Speaker 2: had them all redone.
Speaker 3: So that was my last conversation with Dad. He was
Speaker 3: talking about someone jumping into the backyard and that he
Speaker 3: had noticed this car. He was saying it was like
Speaker 3: a suv, like a bigger piner car, but it was
Speaker 3: parked in this little lane way that Dad had near
Speaker 3: his brightney, his house, or the lane way that went
Speaker 3: through to the next brod. This car had actually parked
Speaker 3: in the lane way and he was saying, I've never
Speaker 3: seen a car park in there before, and it had
Speaker 3: interstate number plates on it. And this was our last conversation,
Speaker 3: so little did we know that we're Brittany's doing.
Speaker 2: So did that and then also relocated the money?
Speaker 1: Did he tell anyone that he was doing that?
Speaker 2: He told us about the fences, Okay, didn't tell anyone
Speaker 2: about the money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm guessing if he's told you about the fences,
Speaker 1: you've possibly mentioned it to your sister.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe someone, I think, because she wasn't living with
Speaker 2: us at that time, I actually don't think she knew
Speaker 2: that the fences had been done. Yea, it could have
Speaker 2: come up in conversation. I don't remember, but yeah, I
Speaker 2: obviously knew about it.
Speaker 1: This point is important because it now makes sense that
Speaker 1: when Brittany went back to Adelaide with Bernadette, this time
Speaker 1: to kill her granddad, she wouldn't climb a fence. She
Speaker 1: would ring the doorbell and a granddad would let her in.
Speaker 1: He'd be excited to see his granddaughter, and although surprised,
Speaker 1: he would invite her in and offer a breakfast. The
Speaker 1: person that accompanied Brittany down to Adelaide this second time
Speaker 1: was Bernadette Burns. She was twenty two. In Facebook pictures,
Speaker 1: Bernadette has tattoos on her arms and her neck. She's
Speaker 1: wearing a nose ring and is smiling in the selfie
Speaker 1: that she took in the front seat of a car.
Speaker 2: They met through gumdry of all places.
Speaker 1: How do you meet someone a gum tree.
Speaker 2: I think they were either there to buy something or
Speaker 2: it was like a rental advertisement, and that's how they
Speaker 2: sort of connect. It is my understanding.
Speaker 1: What else do you know about Bernadette has.
Speaker 2: Had some trouble in the past. She's a single, She
Speaker 2: was a single mum, didn't really work or anything like that,
Speaker 2: had some troubles with her ex partner, cust the issues,
Speaker 2: that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Your sister and Bernadette. Were they in a relationship?
Speaker 2: We believed, so, Yeah, there was a lot that sort
Speaker 2: of came out in the letters that I that I
Speaker 2: communicated with Brittany with through when she was in jail.
Speaker 2: And again from what Brittany had said to me, it's
Speaker 2: it seemed like the story to change.
Speaker 1: A fair bit.
Speaker 2: It was yes, they were, No, they weren't. They were
Speaker 2: just friends. The time when she was living with me,
Speaker 2: there was conversations around moving and moving into like a
Speaker 2: better house and up in the North side of Brisbane.
Speaker 2: You know, She's like, oh, you know, we can rent
Speaker 2: this four bedroom, double story house. It's only eight hundred
Speaker 2: a week and all of this, and I think they
Speaker 2: weren't going to go back to Shelby's. Potentially Shelby was
Speaker 2: going to move in with Brittany into the sharehouse, and
Speaker 2: I think that all sort of fell through, and that's
Speaker 2: where sort of Bernadette came in handy. Whether or not
Speaker 2: they actually ever moved into this house, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: As we sort of figure out, there was a lot
Speaker 2: of lies of where they did, didn't live, what they
Speaker 2: were doing, to what was told to us, but I
Speaker 2: know that Brittany did live in a shower home and
Speaker 2: Bernadette lived there.
Speaker 1: They were using drugs.
Speaker 2: They were using a lot of drugs. Apparently what sort
Speaker 2: of drugs what came out in the court case was
Speaker 2: a substantial amount of cocaine. There was references to ice
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Which is okay, not a cheap drug, not a cheap
Speaker 1: drug at all. No, how were they acquiring you know,
Speaker 1: those sort of Class A drugs that are reasonably expensive.
Speaker 2: There was a lot that sort of came out in
Speaker 2: the letters that I that I communicated with Brittany with
Speaker 2: through when she was in jail, and money was being
Speaker 2: made through prostitution and dealing drugs on behalf of people,
Speaker 2: you know, to then get I guess free stock.
Speaker 1: Let's just go to that. The prostitution piece. This is
Speaker 1: something that was revealed in court, and I guess this
Speaker 1: now makes sense or made sense to you at the
Speaker 1: time when it was revealed. Although it was a revelation,
Speaker 1: this was essentially Brittany's domino's job and you're picking her
Speaker 1: up from strip clubs. What was she using the strip
Speaker 1: clubs for? Do you think, I think.
Speaker 2: To potentially meet people to then go and do it.
Speaker 2: I don't think it really ever happened at the strip clubs,
Speaker 2: but you were sort of able to wiazle your way
Speaker 2: in and then sort of go a, you know, we
Speaker 2: can do this, and then off we go.
Speaker 1: She got a captive audience, right, yeah, yeah, prime target.
Speaker 1: How did you feel when you heard that about your sister?
Speaker 2: Disappointed? Just some people have said to me. Or did
Speaker 2: you feel ashamed or did you feel embarrassed? No? Not really.
Speaker 2: It was more just I felt so sad that at
Speaker 2: any time she could have come and spoke to any
Speaker 2: of us, any of us, you know, and talk about
Speaker 2: how to get out of this or money or whatever
Speaker 2: the case might have been, and she didn't feel like
Speaker 2: she could for some reason, and to have to go
Speaker 2: down that path is just so awful, just troubling. In
Speaker 2: the letters, we spoke about this and it seemed like
Speaker 2: she'd been doing this for a long time. There was
Speaker 2: days at high school that she was doing.
Speaker 1: This prostitution at what age in high school.
Speaker 2: I can't pinpointed exactly. That she does talk about in
Speaker 2: the letters about you know, meeting with people and that
Speaker 2: sort of thing, and you sort of have to read
Speaker 2: in between the lines a little bit with that.
Speaker 3: I think that all the drugs that they were using,
Speaker 3: or she was using, and the prostitution, she wasn't living
Speaker 3: at home, but she would tell me that that Shelby
Speaker 3: worked in the strip club and that's why they went
Speaker 3: to the strip club a lot. Either she was picking
Speaker 3: Shelby up from work or dropping her off or whatever.
Speaker 3: Not that I would mind that they go to places
Speaker 3: like that, but she just had to lie to me
Speaker 3: all the time. I think.
Speaker 1: Across the years Brittany has been in jail, Ryan has
Speaker 1: communicated with his sister. He told me that part of
Speaker 1: it is trying to find out what happened and part
Speaker 1: of it is trying to understand why she did it.
Speaker 1: Ryan's mom, Tanya, hasn't spoken to her daughter Brittany since
Speaker 1: she murdered Robert.
Speaker 2: So this letter was actually sent to my mom via
Speaker 2: me on the eighteenth of December of twenty nineteen. So
Speaker 2: it says to Mum, I am so sorry that it
Speaker 2: has been so long since I wrote you. The last
Speaker 2: letter Ryan mentioned that you needed time and that you
Speaker 2: hadn't read any of the last letters that I had sent.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry that I couldn't be the daughter you
Speaker 2: and Dad deserved to have. I did not mean to
Speaker 2: live this life, or to continue lying to both of
Speaker 2: you about having a job, a house, and committing a
Speaker 2: crime to live. Once I moved out of home, my
Speaker 2: life started to spiral downwards, and I was ashamed to
Speaker 2: come to you for help. I became highly dependent on
Speaker 2: alcohol and ice. Honestly, I did not think I think
Speaker 2: that you would understand. For years, you made me feel
Speaker 2: like I had to live up to Ryan, and I
Speaker 2: just couldn't. I was never enough. I knew that if
Speaker 2: I had come clean that our relationship would have become
Speaker 2: more distant, and all I ever wanted was to feel
Speaker 2: loved by you and have a healthier mother daughter relationship.
Speaker 2: I don't want you to blame yourself. I know that
Speaker 2: you did the best you could, and you always made
Speaker 2: sure that we never went without. I have been broken
Speaker 2: and dealing with my demons for years and years, and
Speaker 2: I eventually became very good at keeping them a secret
Speaker 2: from everybody. Once I became addicted to the drug Eyes,
Speaker 2: I could no longer control the flashbacks and pain. This
Speaker 2: led to my imprisonment. I regret each and every action
Speaker 2: that I ever did. I live with the remorse and
Speaker 2: the regret every day, and I just want you to
Speaker 2: know that I'm completely and utterly sorry for all of it.
Speaker 2: You and the rest so the family did not deserve
Speaker 2: to feel pain for an action that I regret deeply,
Speaker 2: and I'm so sorry for the for inflicting that sort
Speaker 2: of nightmare onto you all. And I understand that sorry
Speaker 2: in quotations simply does not go back and change the
Speaker 2: past that I have created. But I miss having you
Speaker 2: in my life, Mum, and I need you to know
Speaker 2: that what I did torments me every day, and if
Speaker 2: I could go back, I would go back, but I can't,
Speaker 2: and I can't change anything that I've done. You're still
Speaker 2: my mother, and I honestly need you now more than ever.
Speaker 2: Every occasion, every birthday, every Christmas that goes by without
Speaker 2: hearing from you honestly is killing me inside. I know
Speaker 2: that I have not been the daughter you deserve to have,
Speaker 2: but I am honestly so broken without my mum. I
Speaker 2: cannot start moving on with my life in here without you.
Speaker 2: I truly do not expect your forgiveness, and I do
Speaker 2: not believe that I deserve such leniency, but I do
Speaker 2: need my mum being in my life. I love your mum.
Speaker 1: Brittany, how did you feel reading that for the first time?
Speaker 2: Oh, it actually makes me want to cry. To be fair,
Speaker 2: it's you know, I it's I didn't realize. You know,
Speaker 2: I haven't read that letter for a long time, and
Speaker 2: actually that was the first time I physically read it
Speaker 2: in years, since twenty nineteen. And to be fair, I
Speaker 2: think I blocked a lot of that out because in
Speaker 2: my communication with her, I didn't ever really feel like
Speaker 2: she was properly remorseful. And then I read that the
Speaker 2: original time, and it made me feel like she was
Speaker 2: sorry because it was convenient for her to be sorry
Speaker 2: and she needed something out of that, which you know
Speaker 2: is mum to communicate to her. But reading that again, now,
Speaker 2: you know, it does make me, you know, quite emotional,
Speaker 2: very hard to read.
Speaker 1: There was a portion in the letter that felt a
Speaker 1: little like victim blaming where she said she didn't use
Speaker 1: these words, but I'm paraphrasing, and you know, the standards
Speaker 1: for her were so high because of you and Ryan.
Speaker 1: How did that make you feel? I sort of went, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: that sounds like she's going, hey, listen, I did this,
Speaker 1: and really it's a bit of your fault too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I certainly feel that as well reading that.
Speaker 1: Have you read any of her letters?
Speaker 2: Don't I did.
Speaker 3: I think Ryan kept them from me for a while,
Speaker 3: knowing that I couldn't handle them back in the day.
Speaker 3: But there came a time when I just said to Ryan,
Speaker 3: can I have those letters? I want to read those
Speaker 3: and you know, you just know that you're going to
Speaker 3: cry for a few days because you know that's my
Speaker 3: daughter and it is but I did. I cut through.
Speaker 3: There was a pair few letters and cards. There was
Speaker 3: Mother's Day card and birthday cards, and then it was
Speaker 3: probably a year after I read those letters that I
Speaker 3: decided to write her a letter. So I did write
Speaker 3: her a letter, and that was about eighteen months ago,
Speaker 3: and I haven't heard. I never got a response from
Speaker 3: my letter, so I really don't even know if she
Speaker 3: actually got it in jail or if she just has
Speaker 3: written me off and doesn't want anything to do with me.
Speaker 1: Bernadette Burns is Britney's co accused. As we heard, they
Speaker 1: met on gum Try and lived together in a sharehouse.
Speaker 1: It's unclear if they were romantically together. The story seems
Speaker 1: to differ across a few different people. Bernadette had a
Speaker 1: child at seventeen that she battled for custody on She
Speaker 1: told Brittany that's why she needed the money.
Speaker 2: Honestly, that part I sort of have not thought about
Speaker 2: a great deal. There's a lot of anger for me
Speaker 2: with her, and I think she got off way too lightly,
Speaker 2: saying with Shelby when all of that stuff was coming
Speaker 2: out about having a hard life, I didn't care because
Speaker 2: I think you can either be the victim and play
Speaker 2: the victim, or be a survivor and change her own path.
Speaker 2: And for me that was a bit of a similar thing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I had heard that she was also bullied
Speaker 2: at school, and she had sort of turned to drugs
Speaker 2: and all of that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: But she was a New Zealand citizen. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: her parents were over from New Zealand. I'm guessing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The judge took into account her obviously early plea, her
Speaker 1: guilty lee liking that they did. Your sister. She talked
Speaker 1: about to a psychologist that she'd had difficulties at school,
Speaker 1: being bullied. She left in year eleven. Apparently the family
Speaker 1: was devastated by floods and they moved, and then she
Speaker 1: gave birth to her child when she was seventeen, amid
Speaker 1: a volatile relationship with her father. She apparently had unemployment, homelessness,
Speaker 1: and significant drug use, and she had attempted suicide. So
Speaker 1: she had a rough young life. But that doesn't admonish
Speaker 1: her behavior. If your sister had never met Bernadette, she
Speaker 1: thinks she would have murdered your grandad.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it goes back to Shelby. Brittany needed
Speaker 2: somebody to support her through doing this, and I think
Speaker 2: if it wasn't Bernadette, it STI would have been someone else.
Speaker 2: I don't think that makes me think anything differently of Bernadette.
Speaker 2: I think think she had the ability to say something
Speaker 2: and stop all of this, and as did Shelby. They didn't,
Speaker 2: So there is much to blame. But if those two
Speaker 2: had never met Bernadette and Brittany, Brittany would have found
Speaker 2: someone else or did it by herself.
Speaker 1: In August of twenty sixteen, Bernadette and your sister Brittany
Speaker 1: leave Brisbane for Adelaide by car again. They took the
Speaker 1: same bag that Brittany had taken with Shelby in the
Speaker 1: April of that same year. Do you know what happened
Speaker 1: on the way down in that drive with Bernadette.
Speaker 2: A lot of conversations between them. I know that they
Speaker 2: were pretty much rushing to get down. They weren't doing
Speaker 2: a lot of stopping. There was indications that they were
Speaker 2: certainly on something to get there.
Speaker 1: You made drugs, yeah, keep them alert, speed or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I would have thought.
Speaker 2: And then again it was all very clear her intention.
Speaker 2: You know, they paid for cash for the petrol stations,
Speaker 2: and they you know, they paid cash at the They
Speaker 2: did stay at a motel. You know, they knew that
Speaker 2: they didn't want to be tracked, except they did have
Speaker 2: one thing that was very much their undoing.
Speaker 1: But what was that thing? Their phone, both of their
Speaker 1: mobile phones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, ping to their locations, and they weren't shy of
Speaker 2: sending text messages, so.
Speaker 1: They were sending text messages while traveling from Brisbane to Adelaide.
Speaker 2: They were obviously very clear about what they need to
Speaker 2: do to stay off the radar, but then to have
Speaker 2: the phone on them was little little ridiculous.
Speaker 1: You mentioned there were lots of conversations from the court docks.
Speaker 1: We learned that one of those conversations was a lot
Speaker 1: of stations around having second thoughts about it.
Speaker 2: I think, particularly when Brittany was in the house, was
Speaker 2: the most shocking one where she said I don't think
Speaker 2: I can go through with this, and then the return
Speaker 2: text message saying, you know, just harden up and do it.
Speaker 1: That text message is from Bernadare.
Speaker 2: Yeah in reply.
Speaker 1: What we do know is that this time your sister
Speaker 1: hadn't planned just to rob your granddad. She had planned
Speaker 1: this time to kill him, yeah, and make it look
Speaker 1: like a robbery, like she'd told numerous people before she
Speaker 1: got there. In court, it was also said that Bernadette
Speaker 1: didn't think your sister would kill your granddad. She thought
Speaker 1: that maybe they could get the money and get out
Speaker 1: and not have a problem. There was a lenience in
Speaker 1: Bernadette's sentence because of that. Yeah, how do you feel
Speaker 1: about that?
Speaker 2: Angry? Because like outside of looking in anybody could see that,
Speaker 2: you get a message like the one Britney saying I
Speaker 2: can't and you reply do it. I don't care what
Speaker 2: anybody says. Clearly she knew what was going to happen,
Speaker 2: and she was egging Brittany on. The plan was set
Speaker 2: from the time that they left and to go. Oh,
Speaker 2: I don't think she went actually went through it load
Speaker 2: of ship.
Speaker 1: Who do you think was the controlling force in the
Speaker 1: relationship between Brittany and Bernadette.
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny. I've really gone back and forth
Speaker 2: in my head about this, and obviously, with the love
Speaker 2: of true crimes, people love to make up their own
Speaker 2: narratives and sort of play detective. I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people will tend to say it's Brittany, that she
Speaker 2: was the controlling one, but I actually don't think that's
Speaker 2: the case. I think maybe at the beginning, sure, but
Speaker 2: I think Bernadette had it, saw an opportunity and ran
Speaker 2: with it, and I think she was really controlling the narrative.
Speaker 1: So they arrive at your granddad's house in the morning
Speaker 1: after a really long drive from Brisbane straight through. They've
Speaker 1: obviously had some sort of drugs to keep them awake.
Speaker 1: Tell me what happens next.
Speaker 2: She and Bernadette were talking about how they'll go about this.
Speaker 2: So they pull up at the at my grandfather's house.
Speaker 1: And whose car are they in?
Speaker 2: Their housemates the silver Captiva. So Brittany drove her hold
Speaker 2: an Astra and yeah, that was still in Brisbane.
Speaker 1: And the silver Captaver, I'm guessing has Queensland plates.
Speaker 2: On it it does. They pull up and they park
Speaker 2: out the front or in the side street. I actually
Speaker 2: think it was still in the side street. They were
Speaker 2: talking about how it's going to happen, and Bernadette said
Speaker 2: that she would like to come in and watch my
Speaker 2: grandfather be killed, and Brittany said no, and that you
Speaker 2: were to wait in the car. And so Bernadette did
Speaker 2: stay in the car doing a makeup and weird stuff
Speaker 2: like that to pass time. Brittany went to the front
Speaker 2: door and my grandfather came to the door and was
Speaker 2: surprised to see my sister.
Speaker 1: They hadn't arranged it. No, like your granddad had no idea,
Speaker 1: and I obviously knew your sister lived in.
Speaker 2: And so you know, mid morning, mid morning, and it
Speaker 2: was a bit odd for her to obviously do that.
Speaker 2: But like myself, I've done that in the past. I
Speaker 2: traveled a lot for work and so I happened to
Speaker 2: be in Adelaide and I'd go and surprise him. So,
Speaker 2: you know, for her to do that, whilst she didn't
Speaker 2: really ever travel to Adelaide, it's not totally crazy that
Speaker 2: that would have happened. And so my grandfather was surprised
Speaker 2: but really happy about it, invited her in.
Speaker 1: He doesn't realize at the time that she's wearing gloves. No,
Speaker 1: and she's also got a knife with her. No, she's
Speaker 1: hidden that from his view up personally. Yeah, so she's
Speaker 1: holding the knife in her jacket. Hidden't but she's wearing
Speaker 1: gloves as well. What sort of gloves were they.
Speaker 2: I think they were just normal gloves. I don't think
Speaker 2: they were. I think it was just so that would
Speaker 2: look into gloves that might look a bit weird. But
Speaker 2: we're talking August in.
Speaker 1: Adelaide, Yeah, which is cold cold, right, So so like nothing.
Speaker 2: Not crazy and she wore a lot of normally, she
Speaker 2: wore a lot of very baggy, oversized sweaters, hoodies, that
Speaker 2: sort of thing. So again, not totally uncommon. You know,
Speaker 2: if I had opened the door and saw her and gloves, yeah,
Speaker 2: probably a bit strange. But to my grandfather again because
Speaker 2: he didn't see a lot of each other, you know,
Speaker 2: not uncommon.
Speaker 1: So they walked down that long corridor past the front
Speaker 1: room into the kitchen. In the kitchen there's a dining
Speaker 1: table and your granddad's cooking brecky, cooking breakfast.
Speaker 2: I think prior to him starting to cook breakfast, he
Speaker 2: went and got photo a photo album as he would
Speaker 2: always and start flicking through photos while he was cooking breakfast.
Speaker 2: Brittany would go through the photos of like our family
Speaker 2: growing up and whatnot. And then yeah, they he finished
Speaker 2: having cooking breakfast, and they sat down and they ate
Speaker 2: it together and then back on the couch and flicking
Speaker 2: through photos for quite some time.
Speaker 1: So this seems very normal. This seems like a granddaughter
Speaker 1: going to see her poppaea sitting in the kitchen. Grandad's
Speaker 1: making brecky. After a long drive for Brittany reminiscing about
Speaker 1: photos of great times together, probably remembering, as you said earlier,
Speaker 1: the lineage of your family and how important that was
Speaker 1: to your granddad. Yeah, and then what happens.
Speaker 2: That's when she sends the text message to Bernadade to say, like,
Speaker 2: I can't go through with this. And that's when Bernadette
Speaker 2: replied and said, you know, harden up and just get
Speaker 2: it done. So Brittany says, I've got to go, and
Speaker 2: he's said okay, and he was walking her out down
Speaker 2: past the dining table, you know, down past the long hallway.
Speaker 2: Just as they get to the front door, she realizes
Speaker 2: that she's got to She's got to do it now
Speaker 2: or ever, and she she stabs him.
Speaker 1: In the next episode of My Sister the Murderer.
Speaker 2: She then takes him into the kitchen where the dining
Speaker 2: table is at and pulls up a chair and like
Speaker 2: sits him down. But she couldn't she couldn't sort of
Speaker 2: bear to watch, so she turned around and while he
Speaker 2: was bleeding out the detectives. At the time, we didn't realize.
Speaker 2: I look back now and it sort of makes sense.
Speaker 2: But they really, I use the analogy, treated us like mushrooms,
Speaker 2: kept us in the dark and fed ours shit like
Speaker 2: just really didn't want to tell us a lot, and
Speaker 2: I get that now. At the time, it's infuriating. And
Speaker 2: every time we found out information it was because of
Speaker 2: the media.