1 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:06,390 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview, I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,390 --> 00:00:09,869 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Last week saw the release of the first batch 3 00:00:09,869 --> 00:00:14,280 Sean Aylmer: of data from the 2021 census, an absolute goldmine for 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,610 Sean Aylmer: information about Australia, our population, who we are, what we 5 00:00:17,610 --> 00:00:20,340 Sean Aylmer: do and where we've come from. It can also tell 6 00:00:20,340 --> 00:00:22,290 Sean Aylmer: us a lot about where we are going and for 7 00:00:22,290 --> 00:00:27,240 Sean Aylmer: business, this information is priceless. We've spoken to Simon Kuestenmacher, 8 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,030 Sean Aylmer: the co- founder of The Demographics Group many times since 9 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:31,889 Sean Aylmer: we launched Fear and Greed a couple of years ago, 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,159 Sean Aylmer: it feels like we've been building to this interview for 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,180 Sean Aylmer: quite a long time. Our first chat post census, Simon, 12 00:00:39,180 --> 00:00:40,350 Sean Aylmer: welcome back to Fear and Greed. 13 00:00:40,710 --> 00:00:41,700 Simon Kuestenmacher: It's great to be back. 14 00:00:42,150 --> 00:00:43,140 Sean Aylmer: Have you had a great week? 15 00:00:43,950 --> 00:00:47,670 Simon Kuestenmacher: Wonderful week. It is always the best year, in every 16 00:00:47,670 --> 00:00:51,150 Simon Kuestenmacher: five year block is census data release day. 17 00:00:51,630 --> 00:00:55,380 Sean Aylmer: Wow. We have a regular economist on the show, Stephen 18 00:00:55,380 --> 00:00:59,100 Sean Aylmer: Koukoulas and he loves budget week. Well, this is like 19 00:00:59,190 --> 00:01:03,570 Sean Aylmer: five times more exciting for a demographer, because it's only 20 00:01:03,570 --> 00:01:04,200 Sean Aylmer: once every five years. 21 00:01:04,709 --> 00:01:06,150 Simon Kuestenmacher: You've done your math correctly. Yes. 22 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:09,540 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Look, then let's start with the basics. Did the fact that so 23 00:01:09,630 --> 00:01:13,080 Sean Aylmer: many people filled out their census online help get that 24 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,520 Sean Aylmer: data out faster? 25 00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:18,630 Simon Kuestenmacher: Yes, it did. So, we now got census data back 26 00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:21,630 Simon Kuestenmacher: less than a year after people filled the census data 27 00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:24,779 Simon Kuestenmacher: out. So, that is faster than in previous censuses, which 28 00:01:24,780 --> 00:01:28,080 Simon Kuestenmacher: is lovely. Also, we had more people fill out the 29 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,790 Simon Kuestenmacher: census form. I think it was 96.1% or thereabouts, which 30 00:01:32,790 --> 00:01:35,190 Simon Kuestenmacher: is just a bit more than previously, which of course 31 00:01:35,190 --> 00:01:37,649 Simon Kuestenmacher: might have to do with the lockdowns that people were, 32 00:01:38,069 --> 00:01:39,450 Simon Kuestenmacher: they had a bit of time at their hand. 33 00:01:39,660 --> 00:01:41,550 Sean Aylmer: That's true. Now, let's look at some of the headline 34 00:01:41,550 --> 00:01:46,980 Sean Aylmer: numbers. Australia's population was 25. 4 million on census night, 35 00:01:47,220 --> 00:01:51,180 Sean Aylmer: now that's doubled in the past 50 years. How long 36 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:52,770 Sean Aylmer: do you reckon it'll take to double again? I mean, 37 00:01:52,980 --> 00:01:54,930 Sean Aylmer: what needs to happen for us to get there? 38 00:01:55,380 --> 00:01:58,470 Simon Kuestenmacher: If we grow our population at pre census rates, it'll 39 00:01:58,470 --> 00:02:00,780 Simon Kuestenmacher: take us 61 years to double again. 40 00:02:00,870 --> 00:02:03,510 Sean Aylmer: Right. That's probably what will happen? 41 00:02:03,780 --> 00:02:08,220 Simon Kuestenmacher: Most likely. This will happen assuming that we will have 42 00:02:08,220 --> 00:02:10,950 Simon Kuestenmacher: babies at the relatively low rate that we have them 43 00:02:10,950 --> 00:02:14,519 Simon Kuestenmacher: at the moment, that'll probably happen. The question that remains 44 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,080 Simon Kuestenmacher: is will we be able to attract 180,000 net new 45 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:20,549 Simon Kuestenmacher: migrants every year? 46 00:02:20,610 --> 00:02:21,390 Sean Aylmer: Ah, yeah. Right. 47 00:02:21,419 --> 00:02:25,320 Simon Kuestenmacher: That of course means that the country remains attractive enough 48 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,730 Simon Kuestenmacher: for new arrivals, and it just means that we now 49 00:02:30,419 --> 00:02:32,370 Simon Kuestenmacher: have enough jobs on offer for them. 50 00:02:32,790 --> 00:02:34,740 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I mean, talking about migrants, more than half the 51 00:02:34,740 --> 00:02:39,000 Sean Aylmer: Australian population is a first or second generation immigrant now. 52 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:40,859 Sean Aylmer: Is that the first time that's happened? 53 00:02:41,220 --> 00:02:43,109 Simon Kuestenmacher: It wouldn't have been the first time that it happened. 54 00:02:43,740 --> 00:02:47,190 Simon Kuestenmacher: If you go back, way back there was only the 55 00:02:47,190 --> 00:02:52,440 Simon Kuestenmacher: indigenous population that statistically then wasn't counted, which is criminal 56 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,660 Simon Kuestenmacher: in its own right. And then you would have just 57 00:02:54,660 --> 00:02:58,410 Simon Kuestenmacher: constantly shipped migrants into the country to fill the country 58 00:02:58,410 --> 00:03:01,200 Simon Kuestenmacher: up. But it is the first time in a long 59 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,669 Simon Kuestenmacher: time since that's the case. It really just I think 60 00:03:05,669 --> 00:03:10,200 Simon Kuestenmacher: runs contradictory to the notion that some people might have 61 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,490 Simon Kuestenmacher: that Australia is a racist country. If you throw 25 62 00:03:14,490 --> 00:03:18,870 Simon Kuestenmacher: million people into a country, there will be racist incidents. 63 00:03:18,870 --> 00:03:22,620 Simon Kuestenmacher: There will be plenty of racist, of horrible incidents that 64 00:03:22,620 --> 00:03:27,600 Simon Kuestenmacher: occur. But overall, considering our size, we don't have enough 65 00:03:27,780 --> 00:03:31,740 Simon Kuestenmacher: problems considering how multicultural we are. We actually do a 66 00:03:31,740 --> 00:03:37,320 Simon Kuestenmacher: great job in integrating people into society, and Australia very 67 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,830 Simon Kuestenmacher: much takes on board things that the new arrivals have 68 00:03:40,830 --> 00:03:43,170 Simon Kuestenmacher: to offer. First and foremost we see this in our 69 00:03:43,410 --> 00:03:45,630 Simon Kuestenmacher: cuisine, if you think through this. 70 00:03:46,170 --> 00:03:48,660 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, that's fascinating. Now one of the stats we heard 71 00:03:48,660 --> 00:03:52,020 Sean Aylmer: last week was about the average Australian. Apparently it's a 72 00:03:52,020 --> 00:03:55,800 Sean Aylmer: woman aged in her thirties, in a relationship, with children, 73 00:03:56,310 --> 00:03:58,560 Sean Aylmer: lives in a greater capital city area and has a 74 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,430 Sean Aylmer: weekly family income of about $ 3, 000 or more. How 75 00:04:02,430 --> 00:04:07,410 Sean Aylmer: useful is that kind of illustration? Does it really represent much? 76 00:04:08,850 --> 00:04:13,020 Simon Kuestenmacher: It's just a cute little talking point. The real big 77 00:04:13,050 --> 00:04:18,060 Simon Kuestenmacher: story here is of course, who is making up the 78 00:04:18,060 --> 00:04:22,440 Simon Kuestenmacher: Australian population? There are plenty and plenty of older people, we 79 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,900 Simon Kuestenmacher: are massively growing our older population. There are now over 5, 80 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:32,640 Simon Kuestenmacher: 000 Australians a 100 plus. So, that's quite big. That's 81 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,450 Simon Kuestenmacher: the Gold Coast Conference Center if anyone's (inaudible) . But 82 00:04:36,450 --> 00:04:39,540 Simon Kuestenmacher: even if we look at the 85 plus population, in 83 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:42,390 Simon Kuestenmacher: 15 years time, it still sounds like a long time 84 00:04:42,390 --> 00:04:45,660 Simon Kuestenmacher: away, but in about 15 years time we will have 85 00:04:45,870 --> 00:04:51,630 Simon Kuestenmacher: 1 million people 85 or older in Australia. That has 86 00:04:51,630 --> 00:04:55,440 Simon Kuestenmacher: ripple down effects to the workforce, we will need so 87 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:00,540 Simon Kuestenmacher: many more age care workers, nurses, doctors. We are not 88 00:05:00,540 --> 00:05:04,050 Simon Kuestenmacher: doing anywhere close to what we need in order to 89 00:05:04,050 --> 00:05:08,700 Simon Kuestenmacher: create this workforce. That's a wave of retirement of care 90 00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:11,550 Simon Kuestenmacher: needs that's rolling at us. I think we're not quite 91 00:05:11,550 --> 00:05:13,109 Simon Kuestenmacher: aware of how big it will be. 92 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,500 Sean Aylmer: I mean, Japan is always held up as the poster 93 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:18,570 Sean Aylmer: child, for one of a better term, for an aging 94 00:05:18,570 --> 00:05:23,070 Sean Aylmer: population and a crisis hitting Japan. But that's kind of what's 95 00:05:23,070 --> 00:05:25,380 Sean Aylmer: coming towards us in a way, and it's not just 96 00:05:25,380 --> 00:05:29,039 Sean Aylmer: age care, it's also enough working age people to pay 97 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,080 Sean Aylmer: taxes, to pay for all that sort of stuff, too. 98 00:05:31,140 --> 00:05:35,490 Simon Kuestenmacher: Exactly. Australia is really well positioned to have a healthy 99 00:05:35,490 --> 00:05:40,920 Simon Kuestenmacher: demographic mix, meaning because we just import people of working 100 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,390 Simon Kuestenmacher: age at such high rates, we can buffer the workforce 101 00:05:45,390 --> 00:05:48,900 Simon Kuestenmacher: requirements. So, we can ensure that our workforce still grows. 102 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,010 Simon Kuestenmacher: That said, the need for a large enough workforce is 103 00:05:53,010 --> 00:05:57,210 Simon Kuestenmacher: also dictated by the large number of people retiring. So, 104 00:05:57,210 --> 00:06:00,029 Simon Kuestenmacher: the baby boomers over the next decade, they will still 105 00:06:00,029 --> 00:06:04,080 Simon Kuestenmacher: be too young overwhelmingly to require a lot of healthcare. 106 00:06:04,410 --> 00:06:07,680 Simon Kuestenmacher: But all of a sudden in like 10, 12 years time, 107 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,089 Simon Kuestenmacher: they will essentially all hit this age bracket where you 108 00:06:12,089 --> 00:06:16,260 Simon Kuestenmacher: really need care at high numbers. And then we hopefully 109 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:20,820 Simon Kuestenmacher: are able to look towards Japan and having reshuffled our 110 00:06:20,820 --> 00:06:23,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: economy in a way that we have many, many more 111 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,539 Simon Kuestenmacher: people in care jobs and that we automated the living 112 00:06:27,540 --> 00:06:29,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: hell out of any other sector. 113 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,930 Sean Aylmer: Fair enough. Every point we talk about is the subject 114 00:06:33,930 --> 00:06:36,839 Sean Aylmer: of a podcast in itself, so I do apologize to 115 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:38,669 Sean Aylmer: listeners that we are kind of rushing over it. But 116 00:06:38,670 --> 00:06:40,680 Sean Aylmer: Simon, we've got five years to go through all these, 117 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:41,820 Sean Aylmer: but there are a few things I just want to 118 00:06:41,820 --> 00:06:44,550 Sean Aylmer: talk about. What about the number of people who have 119 00:06:44,550 --> 00:06:49,620 Sean Aylmer: poor or no command of English? 850, 000 people. No, 120 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,719 Sean Aylmer: there's not a value judgment, that is neither good nor 121 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,600 Sean Aylmer: bad, but I often wonder about those people, what it 122 00:06:54,630 --> 00:06:57,270 Sean Aylmer: means for their life in Australia if they have poor 123 00:06:57,300 --> 00:06:58,530 Sean Aylmer: or no command of English? 124 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,920 Simon Kuestenmacher: Oh, it just means that you're not fully integrated into 125 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,600 Simon Kuestenmacher: the broader society. You will probably be integrated somewhat into 126 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,950 Simon Kuestenmacher: your local niche and that's fair enough. But if you 127 00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:14,520 Simon Kuestenmacher: want to run a socially cohesive country, you really need 128 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,780 Simon Kuestenmacher: to make sure that everybody speaks the language sufficiently to 129 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,070 Simon Kuestenmacher: participate in public life. We can be a bit more 130 00:07:23,100 --> 00:07:25,770 Simon Kuestenmacher: generous in saying, well, whatever. So, we don't care about 131 00:07:26,010 --> 00:07:29,580 Simon Kuestenmacher: first generation immigrants all that much, but it is absolutely 132 00:07:29,580 --> 00:07:34,740 Simon Kuestenmacher: crucial that the second generation speaks English well enough because 133 00:07:34,740 --> 00:07:38,370 Simon Kuestenmacher: otherwise you lock people into generational poverty. You lock people 134 00:07:38,370 --> 00:07:41,550 Simon Kuestenmacher: into low income jobs outside of the main labor market 135 00:07:41,790 --> 00:07:45,600 Simon Kuestenmacher: and that's a nightmare, that's something we don't want. So, 136 00:07:45,750 --> 00:07:51,090 Simon Kuestenmacher: ensuring that schools teach those disadvantaged kids even more and 137 00:07:51,090 --> 00:07:54,510 Simon Kuestenmacher: they need to start with the basics, with language skills. 138 00:07:54,690 --> 00:07:57,270 Simon Kuestenmacher: That's a nightmare for schools, it's a big ask of 139 00:07:57,270 --> 00:08:01,170 Simon Kuestenmacher: schools. So, ideally we can minimize this and theoretically we 140 00:08:01,170 --> 00:08:05,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: could minimize this by tightening certain kind of visa language 141 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,650 Simon Kuestenmacher: testing requirements a bit more. 142 00:08:08,190 --> 00:08:10,290 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Simon, we'll be back in a minute. 143 00:08:16,260 --> 00:08:19,380 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Simon Kuestenmacher, co- founder of 144 00:08:19,380 --> 00:08:23,220 Sean Aylmer: The Demographics Group. The number of people identifying as indigenous 145 00:08:23,310 --> 00:08:26,370 Sean Aylmer: jumped really sharply, I think it was up 25% on 146 00:08:26,370 --> 00:08:29,400 Sean Aylmer: the previous census data. Why? 147 00:08:30,150 --> 00:08:33,210 Simon Kuestenmacher: That's actually my favorite statistics so far out of the 148 00:08:33,210 --> 00:08:37,829 Simon Kuestenmacher: census. This big increase of population that self identifies as 149 00:08:37,830 --> 00:08:42,329 Simon Kuestenmacher: indigenous isn't by any means driven by a high birth 150 00:08:42,330 --> 00:08:46,199 Simon Kuestenmacher: rate. This is just that we created an environment in 151 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,589 Simon Kuestenmacher: Australia where more and more people feel loud and proud 152 00:08:49,590 --> 00:08:54,000 Simon Kuestenmacher: enough, feel confident, feel safe enough that they can publicly, 153 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,080 Simon Kuestenmacher: if you will, declare their heritage. That's really nice. 154 00:08:58,140 --> 00:08:58,830 Sean Aylmer: That's a great thing. 155 00:08:59,490 --> 00:09:02,580 Simon Kuestenmacher: I think that's a healthy sign. We are not asking 156 00:09:02,580 --> 00:09:06,240 Simon Kuestenmacher: for your sexual preference in the census, but I'm convinced 157 00:09:06,450 --> 00:09:10,650 Simon Kuestenmacher: that the number of people who would identify as LGBTQI+, 158 00:09:11,220 --> 00:09:14,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: that this number would've risen as well. So, we are 159 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,709 Simon Kuestenmacher: just really good at creating a welcoming environment for everyone. 160 00:09:19,890 --> 00:09:22,740 Simon Kuestenmacher: You'll see this at the moment with the trans discussion 161 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,319 Simon Kuestenmacher: that some people feel excluded and some people say we're 162 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,080 Simon Kuestenmacher: still not where we needed to be, whatever it is. 163 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,900 Simon Kuestenmacher: I don't care about the status quo, I always care 164 00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:33,540 Simon Kuestenmacher: about the past and the future. I care about the 165 00:09:33,540 --> 00:09:36,870 Simon Kuestenmacher: trends and we are moving into a more open and 166 00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:38,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: accepting direction. 167 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,370 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now this was the first census to collect information 168 00:09:41,370 --> 00:09:46,079 Sean Aylmer: on diagnosed long term health conditions. I was amazed that 2. 169 00:09:46,350 --> 00:09:50,430 Sean Aylmer: 2 million people reported having a mental health condition, but 170 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,420 Sean Aylmer: many, many people reported having long- term health conditions and 171 00:09:54,420 --> 00:09:56,099 Sean Aylmer: chronic healthcare conditions. 172 00:09:56,340 --> 00:10:00,780 Simon Kuestenmacher: Absolutely. It's a really exciting addition to the data set. 173 00:10:01,290 --> 00:10:03,599 Simon Kuestenmacher: Some people say, oh, it's a bit difficult to ask 174 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:09,000 Simon Kuestenmacher: this question because some people might essentially self- diagnose a 175 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,450 Simon Kuestenmacher: bit of asthma to themselves when they don't technically have 176 00:10:12,450 --> 00:10:15,750 Simon Kuestenmacher: it, but that's not the interesting story. The interesting story 177 00:10:15,750 --> 00:10:19,770 Simon Kuestenmacher: is that we can now cross tabulate healthcare data with 178 00:10:19,770 --> 00:10:24,120 Simon Kuestenmacher: socioeconomic data, with geographic data. And this really points us 179 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,030 Simon Kuestenmacher: to why we run a census in the first place. 180 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,360 Simon Kuestenmacher: It's not just so that people like I are interested, 181 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,240 Simon Kuestenmacher: I'm happy because I can just find out interesting stuff. 182 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,260 Simon Kuestenmacher: We want to improve the lives of the Australian people 183 00:10:37,260 --> 00:10:40,230 Simon Kuestenmacher: with the census, and you can then better target where 184 00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:42,690 Simon Kuestenmacher: infrastructure is placed when you know where people live, but 185 00:10:42,690 --> 00:10:46,620 Simon Kuestenmacher: you can most importantly now better target healthcare services. You 186 00:10:46,620 --> 00:10:50,309 Simon Kuestenmacher: can understand for the first time really what drives mental 187 00:10:50,309 --> 00:10:53,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: health. So, it takes until October until the detailed data 188 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,950 Simon Kuestenmacher: is released, but then we can find out, could we 189 00:10:55,950 --> 00:11:00,840 Simon Kuestenmacher: argue that whether that sunshine improves your mental health? What's 190 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,339 Simon Kuestenmacher: the socioeconomic impact on mental health? We can now actually 191 00:11:05,370 --> 00:11:09,210 Simon Kuestenmacher: come up with retail settings regarding this, which is just wonderful. 192 00:11:10,890 --> 00:11:13,830 Sean Aylmer: How do we get to the point of, I'm feeling 193 00:11:13,830 --> 00:11:16,410 Sean Aylmer: like a bit of a fool here, Simon. How do 194 00:11:16,410 --> 00:11:19,380 Sean Aylmer: you do that? How do you cross tabulate all this information? 195 00:11:19,650 --> 00:11:22,770 Simon Kuestenmacher: The Australian census is run every five years and it 196 00:11:22,770 --> 00:11:27,300 Simon Kuestenmacher: asks 65 questions. You can cross tabulate the answer from 197 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:30,809 Simon Kuestenmacher: one question with the answer of another question. So, you 198 00:11:30,809 --> 00:11:34,620 Simon Kuestenmacher: essentially have an endlessly large matrix of data that you 199 00:11:34,620 --> 00:11:38,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: can fill out, and this data is being made available 200 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,510 Simon Kuestenmacher: in a tool that's called Table Builder for researchers. So, 201 00:11:42,510 --> 00:11:46,679 Simon Kuestenmacher: you essentially tell the little machine what kind of data 202 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,170 Simon Kuestenmacher: table you would like to have, and then the little 203 00:11:49,170 --> 00:11:51,510 Simon Kuestenmacher: machine thinks a bit and it spits the table out 204 00:11:51,630 --> 00:11:55,679 Simon Kuestenmacher: for you, which is crazy. It is just such a 205 00:11:55,679 --> 00:12:01,829 Simon Kuestenmacher: good tool and no other country besides maybe Singapore and 206 00:12:01,830 --> 00:12:05,189 Simon Kuestenmacher: New Zealand and maybe Canada have an equally good census. 207 00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:07,679 Simon Kuestenmacher: The Americans for example run a census every 10 years 208 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: and they ask 14 questions. So, we are orders of 209 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,120 Simon Kuestenmacher: magnitude better than anything that comes out of Europe or 210 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,260 Simon Kuestenmacher: the US. We really can understand and can research what 211 00:12:19,260 --> 00:12:22,829 Simon Kuestenmacher: the Australian peoples think, where they are, what they are 212 00:12:22,830 --> 00:12:26,400 Simon Kuestenmacher: like. And we all do this not on just vague 213 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,880 Simon Kuestenmacher: wishy washy survey data, but we do this on hard 214 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,840 Simon Kuestenmacher: factual data in a census. So, that's pretty cool stuff. 215 00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:38,490 Sean Aylmer: Which comes back to your base point that this information 216 00:12:38,490 --> 00:12:41,160 Sean Aylmer: allows us to think about aged care, allows us to 217 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,000 Sean Aylmer: think about resourcing mental healthcare, allows us to think about 218 00:12:45,179 --> 00:12:48,089 Sean Aylmer: how Australia is going to look like in five years, 219 00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:49,170 Sean Aylmer: 10 years, 50 years. 220 00:12:49,620 --> 00:12:53,040 Simon Kuestenmacher: Exactly. And just those past trends, and then add a 221 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,429 Simon Kuestenmacher: bit of our future forecasting, which is actually fairly simple 222 00:12:56,429 --> 00:12:59,910 Simon Kuestenmacher: in Australia because we dictate how many people come into 223 00:12:59,910 --> 00:13:03,569 Simon Kuestenmacher: the country, it's easy to forecast the future with really 224 00:13:03,570 --> 00:13:08,100 Simon Kuestenmacher: high precision, 10, 20 years. So, it's really not a lack 225 00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:11,610 Simon Kuestenmacher: of data, a lack of understanding that leads to a 226 00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:15,300 Simon Kuestenmacher: lack of adequate infrastructure, it leads to a lack of adequate 227 00:13:15,870 --> 00:13:19,830 Simon Kuestenmacher: aged care services, for example. But is it a political 228 00:13:19,830 --> 00:13:24,179 Simon Kuestenmacher: will? Is it just political feasibility of those tasks? But 229 00:13:24,179 --> 00:13:27,300 Simon Kuestenmacher: at least the census gives us a fighting chance to 230 00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:28,170 Simon Kuestenmacher: improve the country. 231 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,989 Sean Aylmer: Simon, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. I'm 232 00:13:30,990 --> 00:13:32,819 Sean Aylmer: sure over the next couple of, I hope over the 233 00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:34,800 Sean Aylmer: next couple of years you'll be available and we can 234 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,829 Sean Aylmer: go through all these different aspects of it. Because as 235 00:13:37,830 --> 00:13:41,400 Sean Aylmer: I mentioned, every single point can be sort of, it's 236 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,620 Sean Aylmer: like an onion, you can just peel back again and 237 00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:45,660 Sean Aylmer: again and again, and get so much out of it. 238 00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:49,199 Simon Kuestenmacher: Well, I'm happy to chat demographics any time of day. 239 00:13:50,190 --> 00:13:52,200 Sean Aylmer: Simon, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. That 240 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,160 Sean Aylmer: was Simon Kuestenmacher, co- founder of The Demographics Group. This 241 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,470 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear and Greed daily interview, remember you should 242 00:13:58,470 --> 00:14:01,530 Sean Aylmer: get professional advice before making any investment decisions. Join us 243 00:14:01,530 --> 00:14:03,870 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, 244 00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:07,410 Sean Aylmer: Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.