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Speaker 1: Approache production.

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Speaker 2: Everybody who has come on you has a story of

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Speaker 2: such trauma or hardship like yourself, loss that molded them

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Speaker 2: into becoming a person who then had to learn find

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Speaker 2: redemption or you know, literally be able to rebuild themselves

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Speaker 2: in a way that was I guess worthy to them,

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Speaker 2: honorable in society, and you know, just being around a

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Speaker 2: good person. You could have been like a lot of

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Speaker 2: other persons like myself, mate, drugs, jail, like all those

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Speaker 2: things where they're knocking on your door. You just describe

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Speaker 2: yourself as a very angry young person suffering terrible loss.

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Speaker 2: You're traumatized. These things are a concoction of just badness. Ah.

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Speaker 2: And I think for the listener out there, it's nice

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Speaker 2: if they're able to sit back and actually think to themselves,

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Speaker 2: how amazing people like yourself and every other guess that's

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Speaker 2: been on here has been able to come from those

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Speaker 2: times and be where you are today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. I was knocking on the

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Speaker 3: door of going down the wrong path, you know it was.

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Speaker 3: I even opened that door and was halfway through it,

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Speaker 3: you know, in trable with the law and drugs and

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Speaker 3: about only lost my wife and my son you know,

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Speaker 3: like we nearly separated all this stuff just from being

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Speaker 3: a douche and like they're playing the victim as well.

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Speaker 3: And then it wasn't you know until that time that

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Speaker 3: I actually was like hang on, you know, like use

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Speaker 3: this as motivation, Like I'm not going to be that person.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to go down that path. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to be a different person. And what you see now

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Speaker 3: is literally one hundred and eighty degree turnaround of what

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Speaker 3: I was. You know, this positive and living life to

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Speaker 3: the fullest, was negative and not living life at all,

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Speaker 3: you know, just surviving just getting through.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, not in a nice way.

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Speaker 2: Can I just ask you You've said it a couple

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Speaker 2: of times playing the victim, and I can relate obviously

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Speaker 2: as a survivor myself and somebody who held a lot

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Speaker 2: of anger and aimosity for society, the world, people, men, women.

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Speaker 4: I had just was like fuck everyone.

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Speaker 2: At what stage, though, does a young person, you know,

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Speaker 2: realize that for your situation was definitely not your choice.

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Speaker 2: You know, you were obviously a product of your environment,

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Speaker 2: if I can put it that way, and then you're

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Speaker 2: expected to live, you know, and I say this with respect.

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Speaker 2: Funny enough, I had a message last night from somebody

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Speaker 2: reaching out on my platform, and I had to be

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Speaker 2: really firm with this person. That person was relating to

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Speaker 2: not wanting to be here, you know, parents, So and

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Speaker 2: I said, I can't tell you to stop doing what

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Speaker 2: you're going to You're gonna do whatever you're gonna do,

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Speaker 2: no matter whether you reach out to me nover what

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Speaker 2: you're going to say. If your mind's in that space

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Speaker 2: and you can relate as well, and many others out

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Speaker 2: there listening, no one's going to stop you if you're

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Speaker 2: sett in that way. But my words were, why would

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Speaker 2: you want to give your children a life sentence? And

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Speaker 2: that's what it becomes, you know. So as someone who

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Speaker 2: totally gets that understands that, I guess my question is

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Speaker 2: when you say, you know, feeling or playing the victim,

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Speaker 2: you're not playing the victim mark at a young person's age,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's not until you mature a little bit

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Speaker 2: to understand the way that we are triggered and wired

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Speaker 2: and thinking, so then we can sort of be that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like I was that being sexually abused. Did

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Speaker 2: I continue to live my life saying fuck blah blah

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Speaker 2: blah because I was.

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Speaker 4: Or am I a survivor, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I look at you and I put that very

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Speaker 2: similar sort of context. You're a survivor of something that

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Speaker 2: wasn't your choice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: I guess what I'm saying, Playing the victim is using

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Speaker 3: it as an excuse to be you know, you like

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Speaker 3: playing the victim, using excuse to keep repeating that thing

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Speaker 3: that's happened to you as well. You know, you know,

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Speaker 3: like I've been down. I felt like, you know, I

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Speaker 3: didn't want to be here before. And one of the

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Speaker 3: things I don't think it stoped me was like I

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Speaker 3: can't do that to my kids. I know what it

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Speaker 3: felt like. And this is what playing the victim is

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Speaker 3: and using his excuses. You know, domestic violence. You've watched

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Speaker 3: your mum bashed her whole life, and you know how bad.

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Speaker 1: It makes you feel. But then you know, absolutely your.

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Speaker 2: Partner, we're all guilty of it and we've always done something,

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Speaker 2: like you said, product.

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Speaker 1: Of your environment that no, you're not, You're only.

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Speaker 4: What you let yourself be.

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Speaker 3: Like if you see, if your environment's negative, change it,

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Speaker 3: Like we've all got the choice to change it, you know.

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Speaker 3: And that's where a lot of people play the victim

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Speaker 3: and that's what age.

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Speaker 2: Do you feel that you found that maturity and mindset

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Speaker 2: where you could actually make that choice and step aside

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Speaker 2: from feeling that way.

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Speaker 4: It's ongoing, but it is, isn't it journey? It really is.

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Speaker 4: It's on going love.

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Speaker 3: You can fall back into that out everything's against me,

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Speaker 3: the world's against me, you know, but it was. It

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Speaker 3: was when it was about twenty three, not long after

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Speaker 3: I met you. I think it was me and my

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Speaker 3: wife Portuini were about the you know, we were having

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Speaker 3: troubles and we went and seen a marriage cancer. We

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Speaker 3: both got together at you know, young eighteen nineteen years old,

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Speaker 3: had a kid.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember that. I was blown away, you know,

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Speaker 4: like I was like.

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Speaker 3: Whoa, Yeah, yeah, man, it's wild, you know, and like

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Speaker 3: we look, we've known each other since primary school, since

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Speaker 3: year six. But yeah, so we went and seen a

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Speaker 3: marriage cancelor and it was just the first time I

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Speaker 3: was just I went there. I was like, ah, fuck them,

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Speaker 3: you know this and that. But I was like, I

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Speaker 3: want to do anything to try and keep this relationship

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Speaker 3: together because again I grew up without a mum and dad,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, I don't that's the last thing

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Speaker 3: I want to happen. So I'm going to do everything

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Speaker 3: in my power to you know, and go and speak

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Speaker 3: to someone, which I thought was bullshit at the time.

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Speaker 2: You know, Kudos, kudos, because it takes a lot of

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Speaker 2: balls to actually own them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah and step up and do it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm you know, in a very similar situation

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Speaker 2: twenty one years and you know, living separated. But you know,

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Speaker 2: she's my best mate.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, she's my soul mate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, We've got no domestic violence issues, we've got no

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Speaker 2: trust issues, there's none of that sort of scenario. We

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Speaker 2: just lose that connection through life.

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Speaker 4: And that just happens. It happens, especially when you've got kids.

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Speaker 2: Going through Like you know, there's so much that people

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Speaker 2: don't see behind the scenes, and everyone sees this beautifulness

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Speaker 2: of just oh they look great, but hang on, there's

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Speaker 2: other other things that do go.

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Speaker 4: On a lot of a lot of work, man, And

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Speaker 4: I love.

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Speaker 2: The way you just and thank you for being so

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Speaker 2: open about it because you know, like you don't have

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Speaker 2: to share that and as a man, I really take

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Speaker 2: that on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what that's why I've even started doing podcasts,

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Speaker 3: and like, you know, I don't I just think I'm

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Speaker 3: an ordinary guy, and obviously I do have some pretty

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Speaker 3: extraordinary stories.

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Speaker 1: But you do, yeah, you know, like this is the

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Speaker 1: things I never knew.

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Speaker 3: Like so I never knew so much stuff. I never

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Speaker 3: had anyone to ask or you know. So that's why

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Speaker 3: I have been a lot more open about, you know,

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Speaker 3: telling my story and telling it a detail as well,

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Speaker 3: because it might help someone.

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Speaker 4: You know, and I've always known you to be a

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Speaker 4: very private man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that respect social life.

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Speaker 2: You're always, you know, when around people, you know, sociable

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Speaker 2: and but the man that I have, you know, touch

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Speaker 2: base with and known over a period of time, is

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Speaker 2: a very private man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well I didn't even know, like I was very shut

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Speaker 3: off from myself as well for years, you know, like

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Speaker 3: I it's funny on the way he was having a

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Speaker 3: conversation with the mate who just had at a kid,

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Speaker 3: and I didn't even know who myself. I couldn't be

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Speaker 3: with myself, you know, I always distracted myself with being

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Speaker 3: with friends and drinking, and you know, you couldn't be

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Speaker 3: by yourself at all. I couldn't probably stand who I

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Speaker 3: was or maybe scared to actually know who I really was.

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Speaker 4: You know, when you buy your health. You kind of

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Speaker 4: you know, a lot of head miss.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know, like yesterday I was got up at three

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Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning and when I hiked him out

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Speaker 3: for sunrise by myself.

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Speaker 2: I did see that and I actually you and I

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Speaker 2: was that we did, and I seen you set up

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Speaker 2: your little burner.

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Speaker 4: Is that your little coffee? A little coffee up there, mane,

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Speaker 4: I have a coffee up there by myself.

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Speaker 2: Hearing the sound of that crackling away and taking in

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Speaker 2: what you've put out there was so simple. Yeah, but

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Speaker 2: to share that and the feeling I got from that

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Speaker 2: you being there, it put me in to really just

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Speaker 2: can't spot and I mean that I'm not pissing in

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Speaker 2: your pocket. It did for that moment, that thirty seconds

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is, ninety second, what the fuck, I

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Speaker 2: don't even know how long. It was just spontaneous, it

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Speaker 2: was beautiful and it.

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Speaker 4: Was just well, that's it.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes a visual like that can just change something.

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Speaker 3: We forget how beautiful the world is sometimes, like it's

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Speaker 3: really easy to see all the negative stuff. And and

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Speaker 3: just like I do post, I'm not knowing much these days,

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Speaker 3: but you know, posting, I don't never hosting on myself.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I am on top of the mountain.

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Speaker 1: I'll just post the view and you know that can,

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Speaker 1: like you said, change people.

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Speaker 4: And that was like I said in the.

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Speaker 3: Bush yesterday by myself went a track back like it

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Speaker 3: was meant to be an out and back track. I thought,

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Speaker 3: I'll do a loop and it was a pretty adventurous track.

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Speaker 3: I was literally down climbing a pretty serious rock climb.

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Speaker 4: You climb.

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Speaker 3: I'm just like looking around like this is fucking yelling

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Speaker 3: out like yeah, fucking this is how you live.

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Speaker 1: I climbed just white, walking through the bush. Spider webs

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Speaker 1: loow me.

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Speaker 4: Ticks and leeches and snakes. Ah nah, I don't see

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Speaker 4: any snakes the morning.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, just like I said, I enjoy being by

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Speaker 3: myself now. I enjoy who I am. I know who

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Speaker 3: I am now, and it took me a long time

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Speaker 3: to discover that. And going right back to the moment

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Speaker 3: we're talking about was speaking to the canceler and just

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Speaker 3: having a man listen to me and actually like a

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Speaker 3: man that's not judging me. And you know, like we

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Speaker 3: go right back to wh my dad passed away. At

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Speaker 3: the funeral one of my uncles, I can't remember who

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Speaker 3: it was, and we haven't figured out who it was

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Speaker 3: this to this day. He said to me, he said,

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Speaker 3: you're the man of this family. Now, don't you ever

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Speaker 3: let another man tell you different? And that stuck with me,

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Speaker 3: you know, And I never listened to any man. My

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Speaker 3: mum had partners, and I was always resented him. You know,

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Speaker 3: I had this resentment against man. No one can tell

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Speaker 3: me what to do.

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Speaker 2: You know, your Italian side from your dad, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so there was that musculinity, sort of that.

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Speaker 1: Strength, a bit of a masculinity.

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Speaker 2: But European men were a little bit different, I think, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: way that they molded culture.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I said, I tried to find out who

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Speaker 3: it was who told me that or asked and no

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Speaker 3: one can remember. But yeah, anyway, like those little bits

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Speaker 3: and pieces, and I never listened to a man. I

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Speaker 3: never cared what a man said to me or about me.

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Speaker 3: And then went to this cancelor and and he's listened

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Speaker 3: and he was just like, oh, man, like, no wonder,

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Speaker 3: you're a bit angry. You've had a hard life, like

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Speaker 3: you had some shit go on, and it was just

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Speaker 3: like yeah, was like he kind of said, it's okay

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Speaker 3: to feel like that you know, no wonder you are,

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Speaker 3: Like it just understood me for a bit and just listened,

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Speaker 3: and I was just like whoa, Like it was the

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Speaker 3: first time I had an affection I think from a

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Speaker 3: man as.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I was just like whoa, Like this is awesome.

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Speaker 3: Like I walked out of there like the world had

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Speaker 3: been lifted off my shoulders. I was like, he kind

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Speaker 3: of said to me, is like.

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Speaker 1: You can't move forward when you're blaming the past.

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Speaker 4: What's happened to you? That was the big thing