1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: From the newsroom are used to come to the Hi there, 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Bucklow. 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 2: Well, right now, the world is arguably closer to nuclear 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: annihilation than ever before. There are a number of conflicts 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 2: around the globe involving countries that possess weapons that have 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 2: the power to end human civilization in mere minutes. Yet 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: a growing global movement is saying enough. In just a moment, 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 2: we'll meet one of the people leading the charge to 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: dismantle the most dangerous weapons ever created. He'll tell us 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 2: how they plan to do it, what the odds of 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 2: success are, and what could happen if they fail. 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 3: A short time ago, an American aeroplane dropped one bomb 13 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 3: on Hiroshima. That bomb has more power than twenty thousand 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 3: tons of. 15 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: T and T. 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 3: With this bomb, we have now added a new and 17 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 3: rabbelutionary increase in destruction the supplement the growing power of 18 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 3: our armed forces. 19 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: That was President Harry Truman in August nineteen forty five, 20 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: announcing that the US had become the first country in 21 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 2: history to use a nuclear weapon in war. That bomb 22 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: killed seventy thousand Japanese people immediately, with another seventy thousand 23 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: dying by the end of the year. 24 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 4: Whenever I remember Hiroshima, the first image that comes to 25 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 4: my mind is my four year old nephew, who had 26 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 4: transformed into an unrecognizable, blackened, swollen, melted chunk of flesh, 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 4: who kept begging for water in a faint voice until 28 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 4: his death released him from agony. 29 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: Three days later, the US dropped a second bomb on Nagasaki, 30 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: killing another seventy thousand. Since then, over two thousand nuclear 31 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: tests have been conducted by various countries, but thankfully, no 32 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: more have been used in war. A coalition called the 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons wants to keep it 34 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: that way. Tim Wright, who's part of IGAN, joins me. 35 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 2: Now okadae, Tim, Hi, Andrew, how are you. 36 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: I'm very well. Thanks. 37 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: Before we get into how your coalition plans to abolish them, 38 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: let's cover off some basics. How many countries have nuclear 39 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: weapons at the moment, and do we know how many 40 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: they actually have? 41 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,839 Speaker 5: Yeah, there are nine countries and we estimate that they 42 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 5: have together about twelve thousand nuclear weapons. Most of them 43 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 5: are in the arsenals of just two countries, the United 44 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 5: States and Russia. They have about ninety percent between them 45 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 5: and the others. That have them are the UK, China, France, India, Pakistan, Israel, 46 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 5: and North Korea. There are also several countries that host 47 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 5: nuclear weapons on their territories. So there are five European 48 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 5: countries that host US nuclear weapons, and Balarus hosts Russian 49 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 5: nuclear weapons, so fifteen countries in total that have nuclear 50 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 5: weapons on their territories. 51 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: Of the nine nuclear states, how much money are they 52 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: spending each year on their nus do we know? 53 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 5: We've estimated it at around one hundred billion US dollars, 54 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 5: so one hundred and fifty billion Australian dollars. About half 55 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 5: of that is being spent by the US. Most of 56 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 5: the countries that have nuclear weapons are increasing the size 57 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 5: of their arsenals, building new warheads, but all of them 58 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 5: are certainly enhancing the weapons and the delivery systems, the 59 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 5: missiles and the submarines and so on. So huge money 60 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 5: that's being made, in many cases by private contractors. It's 61 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 5: big business. 62 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: That is a staggering amount of money. 63 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: We all know that nuclear weapons can cause widespread devastation, 64 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: as of course we saw in Japan in the nineteen forty, 65 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: But are you able to paint kind of a modern 66 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: picture of just how much damage a singular nuclear weapon 67 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: can actually do. 68 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, the weapons that were used on Hiroshima and 69 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 5: Nagasaki were very small compared with most of the nuclear 70 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 5: weapons in the world today. They had yields equivalent of 71 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 5: fifteen to twenty kilotons of TNT. Most weapons today are 72 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 5: hundreds of kilotons of TNT equivalent. So a single nuclear 73 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 5: weapon used against a city today, depending on the size 74 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 5: of the weapon and the size of the city, would 75 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 5: probably result in millions of deaths. Basically, everyone close to 76 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 5: the hypercenter would be incinerated instantly. Those further away from 77 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 5: the hypercenter would suffer severe burn injuries, blast injuries, and 78 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 5: receive such a high dose of radiation ionizing radiation from 79 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 5: the nuclear weapon that they would die within a matter 80 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 5: of hours, days, or weeks. And those further away may 81 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 5: survive but still suffer from severe injuries, psychological trauma, and 82 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 5: they may have received a dose of radiation that results 83 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 5: in disease later in life. So huge catastrophic consequences from 84 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 5: even a single nuclear weapon being used. If many nuclear 85 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 5: weapons were used, there would also be consequences for the climate. 86 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 5: It would reduce global sunlight, global rainfall, and agricultural production 87 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 5: resulting in famine. That's the effect known as nuclear winter. 88 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 5: So it's in everyone's interests that these weapons never be 89 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 5: used again and be totally eliminated. 90 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. 91 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if you feel the same way, 92 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: but it feels like the world is in a pretty 93 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: precarious position at the moment. We've got the war between 94 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 2: Russia and Ukraine. There's fighting, of course, still going on 95 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 2: in Gaza. There are concerns that China plans to invade Taiwan. 96 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 2: In your opinion, just how close are we to actually 97 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: getting into a nuclear war? 98 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 5: I think the risk is much higher than many people assume, 99 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 5: and most experts agree that the risk today is as 100 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 5: high as it's ever been, higher even than it was 101 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 5: during the Cold War. There are more countries now with 102 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 5: nuclear weapons, and so more scenarios, plausible scenarios for the 103 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 5: use of nuclear weapons, and even if they're not actually used, 104 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 5: they can be used to intimidate and coerce, as we've seen, 105 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 5: for example with Russia's behavior towards Ukraine. 106 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 6: Nuclear saber rattling from the Kremlin this morning, with Vladimir 107 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 6: Putin appearing to threaten to use nuclear weapons if Ukraine 108 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 6: fires American made missiles into Russia. The Kremlin's saying that 109 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 6: doctrine was updated in response to what it calls the 110 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 6: new situation. The new Russian policy essentially authorizes the use 111 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 6: of nuclear weapons in response to what it calls quotes 112 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 6: critical threats of aggression using conventional weapons. Now, remember President 113 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 6: Biden lifting restrictions on the attack on ballistic missiles, which 114 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 6: are of course conventional weapons, essentially allowing them to be 115 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 6: fined into Russia. Putin has made nuclear tracks before that 116 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 6: have proved to be hollow, as seen the Ukrainian military 117 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 6: source telling me this is blackmail, but also warning nuclear 118 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 6: weapons are a Pandora's box that shouldn't be opened. 119 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 5: I think that this is a risk that every country 120 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 5: in the world needs to work together to address. And 121 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 5: we can't just assume that because they haven't been used 122 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 5: in eighty years that they'll never be used again. That's 123 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 5: a very dangerous assumption. 124 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: So how do we actually get the nine nuclear armed 125 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 2: states to abolish their weapons? 126 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: Tim will explain in just a moment. Welcome back. 127 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: Well, let's chat now about how we're actually going to 128 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: get rid of nuclear weapons. So back in twenty seventeen, 129 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: the United Nations adopted the Treaty on the Prohibit of 130 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: Nuclear Weapons. 131 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: He's a report from Al Jazeera. 132 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 7: At the time, conference organizers hoped for consensus amongst the 133 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 7: countries discussing the treaty, but it took a vote to 134 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 7: approve it one twenty two states in favor, only one 135 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 7: the Netherlands against. Once fifty countries ratify the Nuclear Prohibition Treaty, 136 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 7: atomic weapons will effectively be illegal international law. 137 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: But there's a problem. 138 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 7: The world's nine nuclear armed states did not take part 139 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 7: in the talks at all. Three of them, the US, Britain, 140 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 7: and France, have said in a statement that they will 141 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 7: never join the treaty. Speaking in March, Britain's UN ambassador 142 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 7: said a nuclear free world was worthy, but this was 143 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 7: not the right approach. 144 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 8: The British government firmly believes that the best way to 145 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 8: achieve the goal of global nuclear disarmaments is through gradual, 146 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 8: multilateral disarmaments negotiated using a step by step approach and 147 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 8: within existing international frameworks. 148 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 2: Tim that trade made it a lego to develop a 149 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: test nuclear weapons, to threaten to use them, and of 150 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: course to actually use them. Ninety four countries have now 151 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 2: signed that treaty and seventy three have ratified it, but 152 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 2: the nine nuclear armed states still haven't changed their position. 153 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: So does that make this treaty a little bit redundant? 154 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 5: This treaty was a major breakthrough. Very little had been 155 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 5: achieved in more than two decades at the United Nations 156 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 5: on nuclear disarmament, so we shouldn't dismiss it in any way. 157 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 5: I think that international norms matter. It matters that the 158 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 5: majority of the world's countries have taken a stand and 159 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 5: said that these weapons are unacceptable and have declared these 160 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 5: weapons illegal under all circumstances. It's no surprise that the 161 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 5: nuclear armed states haven't joined this treaty because the treaty 162 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 5: says that they need to get rid of their nuclear weapons, 163 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 5: and they're not willing to do that at the moment. 164 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 5: But I hope that as more countries join this treaty, 165 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 5: the pressure on the nuclear armed states to conform this 166 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 5: new international norm will increase. And really this is all 167 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 5: that we have to put pressure on nuclear armed states. 168 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 5: We can't force them to disarm. Ultimately, what we have 169 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 5: at our disposal is international law and multilateral institutions, and 170 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 5: we need to ensure that they're strong and effective and 171 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 5: that the views of the majority of nations are heard. 172 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: I mean, how's it going to happen? 173 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 2: Though, That's what I don't quite understand, because you know, 174 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 2: the US will say, well, we're not going to give 175 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: them up unless Russia are going to give them up, 176 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: and you can't see Russia ever going to give them up. 177 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: So, like, what is the plan of attack here? 178 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 5: Well, substantial progress has been made in that at the 179 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 5: height of the Cold War, there were around seventy thousand 180 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 5: nuclear weapons. As I said at the start of this interview, 181 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 5: there are around twelve thousand today, so huge reductions. Not 182 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 5: that that means that we're in a much better position 183 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 5: today because the risks are still extremely high, but it 184 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 5: shows that disarmament can be done. And that was those 185 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 5: reductions were achieved because the United States and the Soviet 186 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 5: Union and subsequently Russia viewed it to be in their 187 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 5: self interests to reduce their stockpiles. I think it's in 188 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 5: every country's interest to reduce the number of nuclear weapons 189 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 5: and ultimately eliminate them. In fact, President Trump has referred 190 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 5: to the need to achieve global denuclearization. 191 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 9: We were talking about de Nukin denuclearized d Nukin, and 192 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 9: President Putn and I agreed that we were going to 193 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 9: do it in a very big way. There's no reason 194 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 9: for us to be building brand new nuclear weapons. We 195 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 9: already have so many. You could destroy the world fifty 196 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 9: times over, one hundred times over. If there's ever a 197 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 9: time when we need nuclear weapons, like the kind of 198 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 9: weapons that we're building and that Russia has and that 199 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 9: Jonah has to a lesser extent but will have, that's 200 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 9: going to be very said. That's going to be probably oblivion. 201 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 5: Not that he's taken any steps towards that end, but 202 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 5: it's an objective that basically every country in the world 203 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 5: has articulated, but their actions aren't currently reflecting that ambition. 204 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 5: We need to really put disarmament out there as an 205 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 5: idea that needs to be pursued. 206 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 2: You and your friends at the International Campaign to Abolish 207 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 2: Nuclear Weapons are doing a fantastic job. What optimism do 208 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: you have, What hope do you have that a nuclear 209 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 2: free world is possible in our lifetime? 210 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 5: Well, the vast majority of countries don't have nuclear weapons. 211 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 5: They want to see them totally eliminated. And even in 212 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 5: the countries that possess nuclear weapons, Opinion polls show that 213 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 5: there's majority public support for eliminating them. I think that 214 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 5: ultimately the will of the people will prevail, and there 215 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 5: are cases of countries that have disarmed, and these are 216 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 5: countries that are now leading the way with the Treaty 217 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 5: on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. We had a meeting 218 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 5: this year in New York that was hosted by Kazakhstan, 219 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 5: a country that inherited more than a thousand nuclear weapons 220 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 5: upon the collapse of the Soviet Union and subsequently got 221 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 5: rid of them all. And next year a similar meeting 222 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 5: is being hosted by South Africa, a country that once 223 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 5: possessed nuclear weapons and decided that in order to join 224 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 5: the international mainstream, it needed not only to end the 225 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 5: system of apartheid, it also needed to get rid of 226 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 5: its nuclear weapons. So I think we could see similar 227 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 5: fundamental shifts in the attitudes of countries that currently possess 228 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 5: these weapons. 229 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 2: Well, Tim, keep doing the work that you're doing. I 230 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: hope that you can make it happen, because, as you said, 231 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 2: it would be a great thing for the world if 232 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 2: we managed to get rid of these nuclear weapons once 233 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: and for all. So thank you for taking the time 234 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: to chatter from the newsroom. 235 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 5: Oh, thank you very much. 236 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: Changing Well, that's it for today's episode. 237 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 2: Have a fantastic weekend, and I'll be back on Monday, 238 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: when I'm going to be joined by one of the 239 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: original hosts of the project, which is coming to an 240 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 2: end on Channel ten after sixteen years on air. 241 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: Alright, I'll catch you then 242 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 4: Follow us, subscribe to from the Newsroom wherever you get 243 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 4: your podcasts.