WEBVTT - Cathy McGowan on how to run a community independent campaign

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>When Kathy McGowan won her seat of Indie as an

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<v Speaker 1>independent in twenty thirteen, it sent shockwaves through the political establishment.

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<v Speaker 1>What was supposed to be a safe Liberal seat was

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<v Speaker 1>no longer safe. Back then, she was one of only

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<v Speaker 1>two independents in the House of Representatives. Now, heading into

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty twenty five election, the movement she helped ignite

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<v Speaker 1>is in full force across the country. A third of

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<v Speaker 1>electorates are organizing to put forward a community back to Independent.

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<v Speaker 1>Today former Federal MP Kathy McGowan on who within the

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<v Speaker 1>major party should be worried about holding onto their seats

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<v Speaker 1>and if there's such a thing as too many independents

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<v Speaker 1>in the Parliament. It's Wednesday, January fifteenth, Kathy, As we

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<v Speaker 1>head towards the election, can you give me a sense

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<v Speaker 1>of how big the Community Independent movement is right now?

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<v Speaker 1>How many candidates are running across the country.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really hard to be exact because it's an organic

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<v Speaker 2>movement and there's no one controlling at all. But what

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<v Speaker 2>I do know is in July last year, the Community

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<v Speaker 2>Independent Project hosted an online convention and there was representatives

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<v Speaker 2>from fifty one electorates at that convention and a thousand people.

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<v Speaker 2>There's one hundred and fifty one electorates in Australia, so

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<v Speaker 2>basically a third of the electorates participated in that convention.

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<v Speaker 2>So the numbers of people involved are big and they're influential.

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<v Speaker 1>What makes an electorate right for a campaign from an independent.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there's a couple of things that need to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>One is you've got to have a community group. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's leaders who are going to do the work, because

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<v Speaker 2>it is work, so it doesn't really matter who the

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<v Speaker 2>leaders are, but they've got to be people in the

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<v Speaker 2>electorate with a passion for community and they've got to

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<v Speaker 2>have enough expertise in bringing community together. So that's really important.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the second thing is within that leadership group,

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<v Speaker 2>but a bit wider. I want for something different, something better. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>if you haven't got that want for something better, it's

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<v Speaker 2>really hard to build the momentum. But we're not short

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<v Speaker 2>of that. In Australia. We have got huge numbers of

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<v Speaker 2>electorates where people are thinking they're not getting what they want.

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<v Speaker 2>They want a better choice, and they look at what

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<v Speaker 2>happens in electorates like Indie or Warringa, and they say

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<v Speaker 2>we want some of that. So there's no shortage of

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<v Speaker 2>people thinking that the two party system is not working

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<v Speaker 2>for them and that maybe this option could actually give

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<v Speaker 2>them better outcomes.

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<v Speaker 1>You really kicked off the independent movement we're seeing now.

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<v Speaker 1>When you run in twenty thirteen, coming up against the

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<v Speaker 1>two major political parties is a very daunting thing. What

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<v Speaker 1>advice would you give independent candidates on how to cut

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<v Speaker 1>through when it's coming up against these giant ensities.

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<v Speaker 2>So in twenty thirteen in Indi, we are an isolated

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<v Speaker 2>rural community. Everyone forgot us. We were taken for granted

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<v Speaker 2>as a coalition seat. So our group of community leaders

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<v Speaker 2>said it's actually about community being at the center of

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<v Speaker 2>politics and that if you voted for me, this is

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<v Speaker 2>what you'd get. You'd actually get a representative who represented you.

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't the answer to all their problems, but I

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<v Speaker 2>would represent them and I would always put my community first.

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<v Speaker 3>Fifty nine year old Kathy McGowan is a community leader

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<v Speaker 3>with a long track record in these pasts. She's an

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<v Speaker 3>independent whose form marriage equality is embarrassed by the national

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<v Speaker 3>debate on asylum seekers and talks about climate change to farmers.

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<v Speaker 2>In reality, it is, of course you're going up against

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<v Speaker 2>the the big parties with a lot of money, but

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<v Speaker 2>a representative that the community wants has got so much

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<v Speaker 2>going for it. It's got a natural momentum. But there

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<v Speaker 2>was another side as well. We were able to have fun.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't say this lightly. The major part is

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<v Speaker 2>it's so heavy and it's so angsty, and they're always

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<v Speaker 2>arguing with each other and they're often very nasty, whereas

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<v Speaker 2>in the community independence movement that's not the way communities work.

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<v Speaker 2>So given a choice of do you want to have

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<v Speaker 2>fun and have pizza knights and get to know your

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<v Speaker 2>neighbors and go outdoor knocking and get to know your

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<v Speaker 2>community and be trained in how to do it and

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<v Speaker 2>have an opportunity for leadership and have real impact versus

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<v Speaker 2>being told what to do by Melbourne or Sydney or Brisbane,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like it was a no brainer. So in

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<v Speaker 2>one way, ignoring your opposition, ignoring the competition and just

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<v Speaker 2>getting ahead with it was the real skill. And that's counterintuitive,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't it, But it really did feel to me, And

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<v Speaker 2>the more we went out and the more we were

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<v Speaker 2>the chain, the more we bought people together, and the

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<v Speaker 2>more we build community the quick of a movement group.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's what we're seeing happening around the country now,

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<v Speaker 2>is that community love being engaged, they love belonging, they

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<v Speaker 2>love the offer and the hope.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let's not ignore them for a second. Which major

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<v Speaker 1>party politicians should be most worried about independence this year?

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<v Speaker 2>I actually think the whole system needs to worry. Quite frankly,

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<v Speaker 2>when I first got elected, I can remember just talking

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<v Speaker 2>to the organizers of that Liberal Party at the time

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<v Speaker 2>and said, guys, you should have seen this coming. You

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<v Speaker 2>should see the drop off in your vote. You should

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<v Speaker 2>see that you haven't got grass through its connection. You

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<v Speaker 2>should see that when you have the conferences, you're not

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<v Speaker 2>actually addressing the issues that are real to people. So

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<v Speaker 2>that in disengagement from the parties is really obvious. And

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<v Speaker 2>unless they can fix their model up by really relooking

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<v Speaker 2>at not only the issues but the organizing, I can't

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<v Speaker 2>see them ever going back to how they were in

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<v Speaker 2>the fifties and the see.

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<v Speaker 1>So given that, I mean, we saw people like Josh

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<v Speaker 1>Fredenberg and Tim Wilson lose out in the last election

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<v Speaker 1>Is there anyone in your mind that could meet a

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<v Speaker 1>similar faith.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think there are three electorates that I'm watching

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<v Speaker 2>really closely. So the one of one and in Western Victoria.

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<v Speaker 2>The incumbent there is Dantien. Now Dan's a lovely man,

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<v Speaker 2>a good person, but he's really caught up in being

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<v Speaker 2>a member of his party and the inability of that

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<v Speaker 2>party to address the regional problems that Australia is facing.

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<v Speaker 2>So Alex Dyson there.

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<v Speaker 4>I could just keep up this grassroots independent campaign focusing

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<v Speaker 4>on what the community actually wants, like better roads, shorter

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<v Speaker 4>weight lists when it comes to age care and childcare,

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<v Speaker 4>fairer funding for our So very.

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<v Speaker 2>Strong candidate, and this is the third time he's running.

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<v Speaker 2>I think he's in with a chance. The other one

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<v Speaker 2>is up in Bradfield in Northern Sydney. Now that was

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<v Speaker 2>Paul Fletcher, but he's stepping down. Nick Bulla is there

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<v Speaker 2>and she's running a very strong campaign. She's one then

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<v Speaker 2>independent with me, no destruction from puction with me. The

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<v Speaker 2>third seat that I think is been a really strong

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<v Speaker 2>contention is in Kauper, New South Wales. Cass heis I.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't work for a party, I'm not beholden to party politics.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm beholden to the community.

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<v Speaker 2>So Kauper is based around Port mcquarie and Coffs Harbor,

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<v Speaker 2>so she ran last time as well and did very well.

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<v Speaker 2>Now that's a National Party seat again, the demographics of

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<v Speaker 2>that seat have changed and the sense that community could

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<v Speaker 2>have something better for itself is very strong.

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<v Speaker 4>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>I say those three because each of those candidates have

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<v Speaker 2>run before and they've built a base, got very sophisticated

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<v Speaker 2>community engagement. Now that's not to say that there are

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<v Speaker 2>not other electorates that have got good campaigns. There are,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think those three are really ones to.

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<v Speaker 1>Watch after the break are warning for the major parties. Kathy.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot has been said on this program and elsewhere

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<v Speaker 1>about how we're heading towards a hung parliament where independence

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<v Speaker 1>will have a lot of power. What's to stop a

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<v Speaker 1>certain level of chaos going along with that amount of power.

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<v Speaker 2>That's often what people say, and the people who put

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<v Speaker 2>that out is that a two party opposition is better.

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<v Speaker 2>Are the two parties, so it's their vested interest to

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<v Speaker 2>keep that competition. And if you've got closer numbers in parliament,

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<v Speaker 2>then you actually have to negotiate and if you're negotiating

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<v Speaker 2>with someone who actually represents their community, they are going

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<v Speaker 2>to negotiate from a much much tougher position than someone

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<v Speaker 2>who just represents a party, and they're safe in their

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<v Speaker 2>job because they've got party endorsement. So I actually like

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<v Speaker 2>the idea where the numbers are much closer, where the

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<v Speaker 2>majority she has to actually work with the crossbench to

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<v Speaker 2>get better legislation. I just absolutely think it's in our

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<v Speaker 2>national interest. And I'll just give you one example. One

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<v Speaker 2>of the issues I've been following closely is the gambling reform.

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<v Speaker 5>The Prime Minister is under pressure to enact a total

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<v Speaker 5>ban on gambling advertising, with the cross benches accusing Labor

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<v Speaker 5>of shying away from meaningful reform.

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<v Speaker 2>The current government said, well, we're not going to back

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<v Speaker 2>the recommendations of the committee, and the cross bench said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we've all worked really closely. The committee system has come

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<v Speaker 2>up with this. We think you should back getting rid

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<v Speaker 2>of gambling on TV. At certain times, I say just

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<v Speaker 2>ban it. Ban gambling advertising on television full stocks.

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<v Speaker 5>Eighty percent of Australians want this, and we have a

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<v Speaker 5>government that doesn't have the guts to actually stand up

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<v Speaker 5>to the gambling industry.

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<v Speaker 2>So just do it, shusan goddamn courage for once in

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<v Speaker 2>your lives, for this future of our children. So I

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<v Speaker 2>think when those sort of debates happen, we really should

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<v Speaker 2>be paying attention because those community independents are actually reflecting

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<v Speaker 2>their community push, whereas I suspect the government has got

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<v Speaker 2>other interests at play there. But I do say to people,

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<v Speaker 2>listen carefully when someone says, oh, it's going to be chaos.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a two party line and it doesn't actually represent

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<v Speaker 2>the reality of our lived experience. This country works very

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<v Speaker 2>very well with parliaments that are well balanced.

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<v Speaker 1>How many independence is too many?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's the caliber of the community representatives. Like it's

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<v Speaker 2>a question like how many National party people are too many?

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<v Speaker 1>I refuse to answer that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's the caliber. And then I would say the

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<v Speaker 2>strong members of Parliament, whichever place they come from, are

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<v Speaker 2>people of courage who commit to represent their communities and

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<v Speaker 2>do what's right. And I don't think we've got nearly enough.

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<v Speaker 2>Quite frankly, I would like to see a lot more

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<v Speaker 2>debate and a lot more constructive I suppose ways forward.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's also something else about it. It's not only

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<v Speaker 2>this election the movement's not going to go away. And

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<v Speaker 2>as I've referred to, the three candidates I hope who

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<v Speaker 2>get elected to the crossbench or ran at the last election.

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<v Speaker 2>So maybe there's thirty candidates running. Some will get up,

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<v Speaker 2>they'll be running at the next election and the next election.

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<v Speaker 2>So what in fact is the impact of this foundational work.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really hard to tie down, but it's also really

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<v Speaker 2>closely linked with how the major parties respond. If the

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<v Speaker 2>major parties continue to ignore it and go about their way,

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<v Speaker 2>then that will have huge repercussions on how the parliaments

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<v Speaker 2>work in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>Kath mcgawan, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>You're welcome. Good morning everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>In the news today, lawyers for the family of an

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<v Speaker 1>Australian pilot facing extradition to the United States have launched

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<v Speaker 1>a legal challenge in the Federal Court. Daniel Duggan, an

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<v Speaker 1>Australian citizen and former US Marines pilot, is due to

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<v Speaker 1>face charges for allegedly training Chinese pilots. Dugan was due

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<v Speaker 1>to be extradited by February after the Commonwealth government agreed

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<v Speaker 1>to surrender the fifty six year old to the US.

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<v Speaker 1>That will be paused until a judicial review is finalized

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<v Speaker 1>and the Victorian Police Chief Commissioner says an alarming number

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<v Speaker 1>of Victorian police members have been investigated for alleged sex

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<v Speaker 1>crimes and family violence. Figures released by the force show

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<v Speaker 1>a total of six hundred and eighty three police officers

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<v Speaker 1>and public servants were investigated between twenty nineteen and June

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty four, with alleged defenses taking place both on

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<v Speaker 1>and off duty. I'm Daniel James. This is seven a m.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening.