Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM.
Speaker 1: When Kathy McGowan won her seat of Indie as an
Speaker 1: independent in twenty thirteen, it sent shockwaves through the political establishment.
Speaker 1: What was supposed to be a safe Liberal seat was
Speaker 1: no longer safe. Back then, she was one of only
Speaker 1: two independents in the House of Representatives. Now, heading into
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty five election, the movement she helped ignite
Speaker 1: is in full force across the country. A third of
Speaker 1: electorates are organizing to put forward a community back to Independent.
Speaker 1: Today former Federal MP Kathy McGowan on who within the
Speaker 1: major party should be worried about holding onto their seats
Speaker 1: and if there's such a thing as too many independents
Speaker 1: in the Parliament. It's Wednesday, January fifteenth, Kathy, As we
Speaker 1: head towards the election, can you give me a sense
Speaker 1: of how big the Community Independent movement is right now?
Speaker 1: How many candidates are running across the country.
Speaker 2: It's really hard to be exact because it's an organic
Speaker 2: movement and there's no one controlling at all. But what
Speaker 2: I do know is in July last year, the Community
Speaker 2: Independent Project hosted an online convention and there was representatives
Speaker 2: from fifty one electorates at that convention and a thousand people.
Speaker 2: There's one hundred and fifty one electorates in Australia, so
Speaker 2: basically a third of the electorates participated in that convention.
Speaker 2: So the numbers of people involved are big and they're influential.
Speaker 1: What makes an electorate right for a campaign from an independent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a couple of things that need to happen.
Speaker 2: One is you've got to have a community group. So
Speaker 2: that's leaders who are going to do the work, because
Speaker 2: it is work, so it doesn't really matter who the
Speaker 2: leaders are, but they've got to be people in the
Speaker 2: electorate with a passion for community and they've got to
Speaker 2: have enough expertise in bringing community together. So that's really important.
Speaker 2: And then the second thing is within that leadership group,
Speaker 2: but a bit wider. I want for something different, something better. Now,
Speaker 2: if you haven't got that want for something better, it's
Speaker 2: really hard to build the momentum. But we're not short
Speaker 2: of that. In Australia. We have got huge numbers of
Speaker 2: electorates where people are thinking they're not getting what they want.
Speaker 2: They want a better choice, and they look at what
Speaker 2: happens in electorates like Indie or Warringa, and they say
Speaker 2: we want some of that. So there's no shortage of
Speaker 2: people thinking that the two party system is not working
Speaker 2: for them and that maybe this option could actually give
Speaker 2: them better outcomes.
Speaker 1: You really kicked off the independent movement we're seeing now.
Speaker 1: When you run in twenty thirteen, coming up against the
Speaker 1: two major political parties is a very daunting thing. What
Speaker 1: advice would you give independent candidates on how to cut
Speaker 1: through when it's coming up against these giant ensities.
Speaker 2: So in twenty thirteen in Indi, we are an isolated
Speaker 2: rural community. Everyone forgot us. We were taken for granted
Speaker 2: as a coalition seat. So our group of community leaders
Speaker 2: said it's actually about community being at the center of
Speaker 2: politics and that if you voted for me, this is
Speaker 2: what you'd get. You'd actually get a representative who represented you.
Speaker 2: I wasn't the answer to all their problems, but I
Speaker 2: would represent them and I would always put my community first.
Speaker 3: Fifty nine year old Kathy McGowan is a community leader
Speaker 3: with a long track record in these pasts. She's an
Speaker 3: independent whose form marriage equality is embarrassed by the national
Speaker 3: debate on asylum seekers and talks about climate change to farmers.
Speaker 2: In reality, it is, of course you're going up against
Speaker 2: the the big parties with a lot of money, but
Speaker 2: a representative that the community wants has got so much
Speaker 2: going for it. It's got a natural momentum. But there
Speaker 2: was another side as well. We were able to have fun.
Speaker 2: And I don't say this lightly. The major part is
Speaker 2: it's so heavy and it's so angsty, and they're always
Speaker 2: arguing with each other and they're often very nasty, whereas
Speaker 2: in the community independence movement that's not the way communities work.
Speaker 2: So given a choice of do you want to have
Speaker 2: fun and have pizza knights and get to know your
Speaker 2: neighbors and go outdoor knocking and get to know your
Speaker 2: community and be trained in how to do it and
Speaker 2: have an opportunity for leadership and have real impact versus
Speaker 2: being told what to do by Melbourne or Sydney or Brisbane,
Speaker 2: you know, like it was a no brainer. So in
Speaker 2: one way, ignoring your opposition, ignoring the competition and just
Speaker 2: getting ahead with it was the real skill. And that's counterintuitive,
Speaker 2: isn't it, But it really did feel to me, And
Speaker 2: the more we went out and the more we were
Speaker 2: the chain, the more we bought people together, and the
Speaker 2: more we build community the quick of a movement group.
Speaker 2: And that's what we're seeing happening around the country now,
Speaker 2: is that community love being engaged, they love belonging, they
Speaker 2: love the offer and the hope.
Speaker 1: Well, let's not ignore them for a second. Which major
Speaker 1: party politicians should be most worried about independence this year?
Speaker 2: I actually think the whole system needs to worry. Quite frankly,
Speaker 2: when I first got elected, I can remember just talking
Speaker 2: to the organizers of that Liberal Party at the time
Speaker 2: and said, guys, you should have seen this coming. You
Speaker 2: should see the drop off in your vote. You should
Speaker 2: see that you haven't got grass through its connection. You
Speaker 2: should see that when you have the conferences, you're not
Speaker 2: actually addressing the issues that are real to people. So
Speaker 2: that in disengagement from the parties is really obvious. And
Speaker 2: unless they can fix their model up by really relooking
Speaker 2: at not only the issues but the organizing, I can't
Speaker 2: see them ever going back to how they were in
Speaker 2: the fifties and the see.
Speaker 1: So given that, I mean, we saw people like Josh
Speaker 1: Fredenberg and Tim Wilson lose out in the last election
Speaker 1: Is there anyone in your mind that could meet a
Speaker 1: similar faith.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there are three electorates that I'm watching
Speaker 2: really closely. So the one of one and in Western Victoria.
Speaker 2: The incumbent there is Dantien. Now Dan's a lovely man,
Speaker 2: a good person, but he's really caught up in being
Speaker 2: a member of his party and the inability of that
Speaker 2: party to address the regional problems that Australia is facing.
Speaker 2: So Alex Dyson there.
Speaker 4: I could just keep up this grassroots independent campaign focusing
Speaker 4: on what the community actually wants, like better roads, shorter
Speaker 4: weight lists when it comes to age care and childcare,
Speaker 4: fairer funding for our So very.
Speaker 2: Strong candidate, and this is the third time he's running.
Speaker 2: I think he's in with a chance. The other one
Speaker 2: is up in Bradfield in Northern Sydney. Now that was
Speaker 2: Paul Fletcher, but he's stepping down. Nick Bulla is there
Speaker 2: and she's running a very strong campaign. She's one then
Speaker 2: independent with me, no destruction from puction with me. The
Speaker 2: third seat that I think is been a really strong
Speaker 2: contention is in Kauper, New South Wales. Cass heis I.
Speaker 3: Don't work for a party, I'm not beholden to party politics.
Speaker 3: I'm beholden to the community.
Speaker 2: So Kauper is based around Port mcquarie and Coffs Harbor,
Speaker 2: so she ran last time as well and did very well.
Speaker 2: Now that's a National Party seat again, the demographics of
Speaker 2: that seat have changed and the sense that community could
Speaker 2: have something better for itself is very strong.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: I say those three because each of those candidates have
Speaker 2: run before and they've built a base, got very sophisticated
Speaker 2: community engagement. Now that's not to say that there are
Speaker 2: not other electorates that have got good campaigns. There are,
Speaker 2: but I think those three are really ones to.
Speaker 1: Watch after the break are warning for the major parties. Kathy.
Speaker 1: A lot has been said on this program and elsewhere
Speaker 1: about how we're heading towards a hung parliament where independence
Speaker 1: will have a lot of power. What's to stop a
Speaker 1: certain level of chaos going along with that amount of power.
Speaker 2: That's often what people say, and the people who put
Speaker 2: that out is that a two party opposition is better.
Speaker 2: Are the two parties, so it's their vested interest to
Speaker 2: keep that competition. And if you've got closer numbers in parliament,
Speaker 2: then you actually have to negotiate and if you're negotiating
Speaker 2: with someone who actually represents their community, they are going
Speaker 2: to negotiate from a much much tougher position than someone
Speaker 2: who just represents a party, and they're safe in their
Speaker 2: job because they've got party endorsement. So I actually like
Speaker 2: the idea where the numbers are much closer, where the
Speaker 2: majority she has to actually work with the crossbench to
Speaker 2: get better legislation. I just absolutely think it's in our
Speaker 2: national interest. And I'll just give you one example. One
Speaker 2: of the issues I've been following closely is the gambling reform.
Speaker 5: The Prime Minister is under pressure to enact a total
Speaker 5: ban on gambling advertising, with the cross benches accusing Labor
Speaker 5: of shying away from meaningful reform.
Speaker 2: The current government said, well, we're not going to back
Speaker 2: the recommendations of the committee, and the cross bench said, well,
Speaker 2: we've all worked really closely. The committee system has come
Speaker 2: up with this. We think you should back getting rid
Speaker 2: of gambling on TV. At certain times, I say just
Speaker 2: ban it. Ban gambling advertising on television full stocks.
Speaker 5: Eighty percent of Australians want this, and we have a
Speaker 5: government that doesn't have the guts to actually stand up
Speaker 5: to the gambling industry.
Speaker 2: So just do it, shusan goddamn courage for once in
Speaker 2: your lives, for this future of our children. So I
Speaker 2: think when those sort of debates happen, we really should
Speaker 2: be paying attention because those community independents are actually reflecting
Speaker 2: their community push, whereas I suspect the government has got
Speaker 2: other interests at play there. But I do say to people,
Speaker 2: listen carefully when someone says, oh, it's going to be chaos.
Speaker 2: That's a two party line and it doesn't actually represent
Speaker 2: the reality of our lived experience. This country works very
Speaker 2: very well with parliaments that are well balanced.
Speaker 1: How many independence is too many?
Speaker 2: Oh, it's the caliber of the community representatives. Like it's
Speaker 2: a question like how many National party people are too many?
Speaker 1: I refuse to answer that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the caliber. And then I would say the
Speaker 2: strong members of Parliament, whichever place they come from, are
Speaker 2: people of courage who commit to represent their communities and
Speaker 2: do what's right. And I don't think we've got nearly enough.
Speaker 2: Quite frankly, I would like to see a lot more
Speaker 2: debate and a lot more constructive I suppose ways forward.
Speaker 2: But there's also something else about it. It's not only
Speaker 2: this election the movement's not going to go away. And
Speaker 2: as I've referred to, the three candidates I hope who
Speaker 2: get elected to the crossbench or ran at the last election.
Speaker 2: So maybe there's thirty candidates running. Some will get up,
Speaker 2: they'll be running at the next election and the next election.
Speaker 2: So what in fact is the impact of this foundational work.
Speaker 2: It's really hard to tie down, but it's also really
Speaker 2: closely linked with how the major parties respond. If the
Speaker 2: major parties continue to ignore it and go about their way,
Speaker 2: then that will have huge repercussions on how the parliaments
Speaker 2: work in the future.
Speaker 1: Kath mcgawan, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: You're welcome. Good morning everybody.
Speaker 1: In the news today, lawyers for the family of an
Speaker 1: Australian pilot facing extradition to the United States have launched
Speaker 1: a legal challenge in the Federal Court. Daniel Duggan, an
Speaker 1: Australian citizen and former US Marines pilot, is due to
Speaker 1: face charges for allegedly training Chinese pilots. Dugan was due
Speaker 1: to be extradited by February after the Commonwealth government agreed
Speaker 1: to surrender the fifty six year old to the US.
Speaker 1: That will be paused until a judicial review is finalized
Speaker 1: and the Victorian Police Chief Commissioner says an alarming number
Speaker 1: of Victorian police members have been investigated for alleged sex
Speaker 1: crimes and family violence. Figures released by the force show
Speaker 1: a total of six hundred and eighty three police officers
Speaker 1: and public servants were investigated between twenty nineteen and June
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, with alleged defenses taking place both on
Speaker 1: and off duty. I'm Daniel James. This is seven a m.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.