1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,140 Jennifer Duke: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Jennifer 2 00:00:07,140 --> 00:00:10,800 Jennifer Duke: Duke. Australians are investing less, and when they do, they're 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:15,030 Jennifer Duke: investing more conservatively. But it's not just market volatility and 4 00:00:15,030 --> 00:00:18,479 Jennifer Duke: economic uncertainty that's driving the change, it's also a shift 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,049 Jennifer Duke: in personal circumstances. These are some of the findings from 6 00:00:22,050 --> 00:00:26,130 Jennifer Duke: HSBC's Investor Insight survey, which is in its second year. 7 00:00:26,460 --> 00:00:29,370 Jennifer Duke: Now, Sean Aylmer spoke last year to Donahue D'Souza, Head 8 00:00:29,370 --> 00:00:32,670 Jennifer Duke: of Investments at HSBC, when the survey was first conducted, 9 00:00:32,969 --> 00:00:35,309 Jennifer Duke: so it'll be interesting to see just how much things 10 00:00:35,309 --> 00:00:38,940 Jennifer Duke: have changed. Now firstly, please remember this is general information 11 00:00:38,940 --> 00:00:42,360 Jennifer Duke: only. You should definitely seek professional advice before making any 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,330 Jennifer Duke: investment decisions. Don, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 13 00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:47,610 Donahue D'Souza: Hi, Jen. Good morning. Thanks for having me. 14 00:00:48,389 --> 00:00:51,059 Jennifer Duke: Good morning. So let's go through some of these findings, 15 00:00:51,059 --> 00:00:54,029 Jennifer Duke: because they're quite interesting. Just how many people have changed 16 00:00:54,029 --> 00:00:56,310 Jennifer Duke: their investment strategy in the last six months? 17 00:00:57,060 --> 00:01:01,350 Donahue D'Souza: Well, Jen, this statistic is quite pleasing actually, given all 18 00:01:01,350 --> 00:01:06,000 Donahue D'Souza: of the uncertainty and obviously the higher interest rates, that's 19 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:11,249 Donahue D'Souza: obviously, this concerns of an economic downturn. There's been increases 20 00:01:11,250 --> 00:01:15,209 Donahue D'Souza: in energy prices, food prices, a big impact to household 21 00:01:15,209 --> 00:01:19,560 Donahue D'Souza: budgets. But it looks like investors have proved quite resilient, 22 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:25,470 Donahue D'Souza: they've anticipated these changes, and 76% of the respondents polled 23 00:01:25,530 --> 00:01:29,969 Donahue D'Souza: that they had adjusted their investment strategy over the last 24 00:01:30,029 --> 00:01:36,030 Donahue D'Souza: six months, 29% had adopted a more conservative approach, 40% 25 00:01:36,180 --> 00:01:40,289 Donahue D'Souza: had gone a little bit less risky to a more balanced 26 00:01:40,289 --> 00:01:44,969 Donahue D'Souza: approach, and clearly there was possibly a younger segment that 27 00:01:44,969 --> 00:01:48,540 Donahue D'Souza: saw an opportunity, and about 10% of the respondents there 28 00:01:48,869 --> 00:01:51,690 Donahue D'Souza: moved to a little bit more of an aggressive stance. 29 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,380 Jennifer Duke: That actually really surprises me, because we are hearing, obviously 30 00:01:55,380 --> 00:01:57,449 Jennifer Duke: in the cost of living crisis, that younger people are 31 00:01:57,450 --> 00:02:00,360 Jennifer Duke: being hit more. Were you surprised by that stat as well? 32 00:02:01,530 --> 00:02:04,980 Donahue D'Souza: They do tend to contradict each other. I expect that 33 00:02:04,980 --> 00:02:08,549 Donahue D'Souza: whilst the cost of living has gone up, Gen Y 34 00:02:08,550 --> 00:02:12,329 Donahue D'Souza: and Gen Z have a much longer timeframe to achieve 35 00:02:12,330 --> 00:02:15,630 Donahue D'Souza: their financial goals and investments, and therefore they're able to 36 00:02:15,630 --> 00:02:18,779 Donahue D'Souza: ride out a little bit more volatility and uncertainty and 37 00:02:19,020 --> 00:02:21,359 Donahue D'Souza: take on that additional risk in order to get that 38 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,209 Donahue D'Souza: return. So it's not surprising that they've gone a little 39 00:02:24,209 --> 00:02:27,630 Donahue D'Souza: bit more aggressive. As far as impacts to their household 40 00:02:27,630 --> 00:02:32,310 Donahue D'Souza: budget, it's potential they may have adjusted other parts of 41 00:02:32,429 --> 00:02:36,660 Donahue D'Souza: their expenditure to accommodate their investments or their regular investments. 42 00:02:37,020 --> 00:02:39,929 Donahue D'Souza: They may have even moved back home to save rent. 43 00:02:40,619 --> 00:02:42,840 Jennifer Duke: I'm curious about these people who are shifting towards the 44 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,108 Jennifer Duke: conservative strategy, so that's sort of slightly the older demographics 45 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:49,560 Jennifer Duke: in your survey. What does that conservative strategy maybe look 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,290 Jennifer Duke: like? What are some of those assets that they're pivoting towards? 47 00:02:53,460 --> 00:02:56,579 Donahue D'Souza: Yeah, great question, Jen. I think with the uncertainty, it's 48 00:02:56,580 --> 00:03:01,470 Donahue D'Souza: getting harder and harder to pick a individual security and 49 00:03:01,470 --> 00:03:05,010 Donahue D'Souza: try to get that performance. And then there's the maintenance 50 00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:08,340 Donahue D'Souza: of individual stock holdings as well. The fact that you 51 00:03:08,340 --> 00:03:12,988 Donahue D'Souza: need to review them regularly, particularly amid heightened volatility. So 52 00:03:13,349 --> 00:03:17,279 Donahue D'Souza: particularly amongst the older investors, we're seeing a pivot towards 53 00:03:17,279 --> 00:03:20,489 Donahue D'Souza: fixed interest investments, and if they're not prepared to pick 54 00:03:20,669 --> 00:03:24,510 Donahue D'Souza: individual fixed interest investments and bonds, then we're seeing a 55 00:03:24,510 --> 00:03:28,619 Donahue D'Souza: pivot towards exchange- traded funds, which effectively can give you 56 00:03:28,620 --> 00:03:33,900 Donahue D'Souza: access to a broad range of asset classes, geographies, industry. 57 00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:38,010 Donahue D'Souza: So the key benefit there is diversification. And we're also 58 00:03:38,010 --> 00:03:42,180 Donahue D'Souza: seeing a pivot towards managed funds, where like an exchange- 59 00:03:42,180 --> 00:03:45,330 Donahue D'Souza: traded fund, but it does have the benefit of an 60 00:03:45,330 --> 00:03:49,829 Donahue D'Souza: expertise of a professional fund manager that's actively managing that 61 00:03:49,830 --> 00:03:55,139 Donahue D'Souza: portfolio. So there, if things turn a little bit sour, 62 00:03:55,170 --> 00:03:59,100 Donahue D'Souza: then the fund manager will actively manage that portfolio, de- 63 00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:03,059 Donahue D'Souza: risk that portfolio, maybe deploy some hedging strategies, and where 64 00:04:03,059 --> 00:04:06,869 Donahue D'Souza: there's an opportunity, they can actually dial up exposure and 65 00:04:06,870 --> 00:04:08,220 Donahue D'Souza: give you that return. 66 00:04:09,089 --> 00:04:11,820 Jennifer Duke: Definitely makes sense as to why people are heading towards 67 00:04:11,820 --> 00:04:15,600 Jennifer Duke: those sorts of assets and strategies and I suppose assistance. 68 00:04:16,020 --> 00:04:17,849 Jennifer Duke: I'm curious about how you see this playing out for 69 00:04:17,850 --> 00:04:20,190 Jennifer Duke: the rest of the year, particularly as there's now forecast 70 00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:22,020 Jennifer Duke: that we might've reached that interest rate peak. 71 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,940 Donahue D'Souza: Yeah. Another great question, Jenna. Yes we have, in Australia. 72 00:04:26,940 --> 00:04:29,399 Donahue D'Souza: There's a lot of eyes overseas as well, in the 73 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:34,830 Donahue D'Souza: US, and obviously broader Europe. And whilst seemingly it seems 74 00:04:34,830 --> 00:04:37,620 Donahue D'Souza: that we might've reached the peak in the interest rate 75 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,738 Donahue D'Souza: cycle, I think the concern now is shifting towards what 76 00:04:41,070 --> 00:04:44,069 Donahue D'Souza: the impact of those aggressive rate hikes is going to 77 00:04:44,070 --> 00:04:48,360 Donahue D'Souza: have on the economy overall, and obviously corporate profitability and 78 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,479 Donahue D'Souza: corporate earnings. And that's effectively going to impact the share 79 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:56,070 Donahue D'Souza: market and share market performance. So I don't think investor 80 00:04:56,099 --> 00:05:00,389 Donahue D'Souza: sentiment and confidence is going to improve anytime soon, and 81 00:05:00,389 --> 00:05:03,210 Donahue D'Souza: I dare say that that will probably stay in a 82 00:05:03,210 --> 00:05:08,279 Donahue D'Souza: balanced, more conservative stance, until the dial changes and we 83 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,120 Donahue D'Souza: start to see an improvement and more positive signs in forward- 84 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,660 Donahue D'Souza: looking economic data rather than backward- looking economic data. 85 00:05:16,050 --> 00:05:17,759 Jennifer Duke: Stay with me, Don, we'll be back in a minute. 86 00:05:24,029 --> 00:05:27,539 Jennifer Duke: I'm speaking to Donahue D'Souza, Head of Investments at HSBC. 87 00:05:28,740 --> 00:05:31,589 Jennifer Duke: I'm particularly curious about one statistic that was in the 88 00:05:31,589 --> 00:05:34,380 Jennifer Duke: survey, and it found that there was a 7% decline 89 00:05:34,380 --> 00:05:37,889 Jennifer Duke: in female investors since 2022, and that was comparing to 90 00:05:37,889 --> 00:05:40,979 Jennifer Duke: a 4% decline among male investors. Do you have any 91 00:05:40,980 --> 00:05:43,380 Jennifer Duke: thoughts on why we're seeing that split between the genders? 92 00:05:44,460 --> 00:05:47,219 Donahue D'Souza: Yeah, Jen, that was a little bit disappointing. I know 93 00:05:47,220 --> 00:05:50,219 Donahue D'Souza: the industry as a whole has been working really hard 94 00:05:50,220 --> 00:05:55,349 Donahue D'Souza: to, one, address the pay gap situation, but also to 95 00:05:55,349 --> 00:06:00,000 Donahue D'Souza: empower our female investor to make more proactive financial decisions 96 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,839 Donahue D'Souza: and eventually achieve financial independence. So that was a little 97 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,928 Donahue D'Souza: disappointing, but not altogether unexpected, given that there was an 98 00:06:06,930 --> 00:06:12,720 Donahue D'Souza: overall decline because of the circumstances in the periphery. However, 99 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:15,688 Donahue D'Souza: you would anticipate that, coming off a lower base, you 100 00:06:15,690 --> 00:06:18,450 Donahue D'Souza: would expect the female investor base to be a little 101 00:06:18,450 --> 00:06:22,770 Donahue D'Souza: bit more impacted than the male investors. But one thing 102 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,250 Donahue D'Souza: that I do take heart from is the fact that 103 00:06:26,580 --> 00:06:30,690 Donahue D'Souza: there is still an ongoing contribution, and it may well 104 00:06:30,690 --> 00:06:35,219 Donahue D'Souza: be that female investors have cut back on discretionary investments. 105 00:06:35,459 --> 00:06:38,339 Donahue D'Souza: As long as they continue to work and they're making 106 00:06:38,430 --> 00:06:41,670 Donahue D'Souza: indirect investments via super, I think that's still a good 107 00:06:41,670 --> 00:06:45,719 Donahue D'Souza: thing. But obviously women are more likely, as proven by 108 00:06:45,719 --> 00:06:48,539 Donahue D'Souza: the stats, that they're more likely to take career breaks 109 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,809 Donahue D'Souza: or reduce their working hours, whether it is carer's to 110 00:06:51,809 --> 00:06:55,410 Donahue D'Souza: look after elderly parents, or parental leave to look after 111 00:06:55,470 --> 00:06:57,839 Donahue D'Souza: children. All of these things are going to impact their 112 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,890 Donahue D'Souza: superannuation contributions and the way in which they can retire 113 00:07:01,890 --> 00:07:04,440 Donahue D'Souza: in the end. So it's good that the survey's polling 114 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,170 Donahue D'Souza: this out, but there are a lot of distractions right 115 00:07:07,170 --> 00:07:10,170 Donahue D'Souza: now. So we're living in a post- COVID environment, savings 116 00:07:10,650 --> 00:07:14,580 Donahue D'Souza: during that COVID environment's funding quite a few things, and 117 00:07:14,580 --> 00:07:18,240 Donahue D'Souza: in particularly have gone towards rebalancing that household budget amid 118 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,469 Donahue D'Souza: the higher mortgage, higher rents, higher food prices, higher energy 119 00:07:22,469 --> 00:07:25,410 Donahue D'Souza: prices, but we're also seeing the travel bug back there, 120 00:07:25,410 --> 00:07:28,920 Donahue D'Souza: so that might be polluting the statistics a little bit. 121 00:07:29,490 --> 00:07:32,640 Jennifer Duke: That's fair enough. The holiday habits that we have. There 122 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,550 Jennifer Duke: was also this big divide in the survey between men 123 00:07:35,550 --> 00:07:38,010 Jennifer Duke: and women in their knowledge on how to invest outside 124 00:07:38,010 --> 00:07:40,679 Jennifer Duke: of Australia. So I think it was 53% of men 125 00:07:40,679 --> 00:07:42,990 Jennifer Duke: compared to 35% of women are aware of how to 126 00:07:42,990 --> 00:07:45,750 Jennifer Duke: do that. Does that add further weight to this argument 127 00:07:45,750 --> 00:07:49,830 Jennifer Duke: for a greater focus needed on financial investment literacy education? 128 00:07:51,090 --> 00:07:54,420 Donahue D'Souza: Ah, definitely. And that's why we run the poll, is, 129 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,450 Donahue D'Souza: one, to help the industry and help each other to 130 00:07:57,450 --> 00:08:00,989 Donahue D'Souza: identify what are the areas that we need to focus 131 00:08:00,990 --> 00:08:04,800 Donahue D'Souza: on and where this education is needed. I know that 132 00:08:04,889 --> 00:08:07,980 Donahue D'Souza: many of the issues and the exchanges as a whole 133 00:08:08,250 --> 00:08:11,490 Donahue D'Souza: have spent a lot of time focusing particularly on ETFs 134 00:08:11,490 --> 00:08:13,950 Donahue D'Souza: and managed funds, because you are able to get that 135 00:08:13,950 --> 00:08:18,480 Donahue D'Souza: broad diversified exposure and it's quite easy to get overseas exposure. It 136 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,889 Donahue D'Souza: may come down to an aversion to risk, and naturally 137 00:08:23,190 --> 00:08:26,250 Donahue D'Souza: when you're looking at investing overseas, you are taking on 138 00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:30,330 Donahue D'Souza: additional risks. So potentially there might be something there where 139 00:08:30,570 --> 00:08:34,230 Donahue D'Souza: if you are risk- averse, then you're much more comfortable 140 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:35,759 Donahue D'Souza: staying within Australia. 141 00:08:36,690 --> 00:08:37,860 Jennifer Duke: And of course we don't want to make sort of 142 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,639 Jennifer Duke: widespread assumptions, but is this suggesting that female investors tend 143 00:08:41,639 --> 00:08:42,569 Jennifer Duke: to be more risk- averse? 144 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,320 Donahue D'Souza: I think if you read through some of the ABS 145 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,080 Donahue D'Souza: statistics, the fact that women are more likely to take 146 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,910 Donahue D'Souza: breaks, they're effectively got less contributions, they're effectively working less, 147 00:08:53,910 --> 00:08:56,849 Donahue D'Souza: and therefore if they've got a smaller amount of capital 148 00:08:57,059 --> 00:09:00,240 Donahue D'Souza: that they need to manage and obviously achieve some sort 149 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,530 Donahue D'Souza: of comfort in retirement, then you could anticipate that, " Okay, 150 00:09:04,980 --> 00:09:07,740 Donahue D'Souza: I might be a little bit less aggressive in my 151 00:09:08,309 --> 00:09:10,710 Donahue D'Souza: investment approach, because I've got more to lose." 152 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,410 Jennifer Duke: I think that's a very fair comment. And I also 153 00:09:13,410 --> 00:09:16,559 Jennifer Duke: thought it was really interesting in the survey that Australians think 154 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,679 Jennifer Duke: that they need, it's about $15, 200, if I'm getting that 155 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,679 Jennifer Duke: right, as the minimum amount to get started investing. Now, 156 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,199 Jennifer Duke: we're not an investment podcast, and we always encourage people 157 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,868 Jennifer Duke: to get professional advice as you've heard, but surely a 158 00:09:27,870 --> 00:09:30,059 Jennifer Duke: figure like that is a bit of a barrier to 159 00:09:30,059 --> 00:09:33,208 Jennifer Duke: someone's mindset, particularly for those younger generations in thinking, " Yes, 160 00:09:33,210 --> 00:09:35,250 Jennifer Duke: I have enough, I can get out there, I can 161 00:09:35,250 --> 00:09:37,110 Jennifer Duke: do some investments." What are your thoughts on it? 162 00:09:38,190 --> 00:09:41,070 Donahue D'Souza: Yeah, the poll revealed, I mean, it was an average 163 00:09:41,070 --> 00:09:44,429 Donahue D'Souza: and it was the perceived in minimum investment amount was 164 00:09:44,429 --> 00:09:50,250 Donahue D'Souza: higher than last year, I think 14, 800 last year, 15, 200 this year. 165 00:09:50,309 --> 00:09:54,958 Donahue D'Souza: It hasn't moved substantially, but you're right. There've been multiple apps 166 00:09:55,050 --> 00:09:58,590 Donahue D'Souza: and providers that have come out that are effectively appealing 167 00:09:58,590 --> 00:10:02,610 Donahue D'Souza: to the millennials and Gen Z to invest steadily and 168 00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:06,300 Donahue D'Souza: regularly over time, and obviously the costs are quite slow. 169 00:10:06,630 --> 00:10:09,358 Donahue D'Souza: Speaking of costs though, I think there's been plenty of 170 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,660 Donahue D'Souza: media focus on it. So whilst you can invest a 171 00:10:12,660 --> 00:10:15,090 Donahue D'Souza: small amount, you still have to pay brokerage of some 172 00:10:15,090 --> 00:10:18,600 Donahue D'Souza: description. And when you're investing a small amount, in percentage 173 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,689 Donahue D'Souza: terms it can add up, and therefore the return you 174 00:10:21,690 --> 00:10:25,020 Donahue D'Souza: need to achieve on that minimum investment just to cover 175 00:10:25,020 --> 00:10:28,859 Donahue D'Souza: your brokerage or your initial investment cost can be substantial. 176 00:10:28,859 --> 00:10:31,679 Donahue D'Souza: So what we're also seeing is because there's been a 177 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:37,199 Donahue D'Souza: pivot towards the more diversified exposures through ETFs and managed 178 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,400 Donahue D'Souza: funds, possibly through managed funds, because some of the managed 179 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,969 Donahue D'Souza: funds may have a minimum, that may be reflected and 180 00:10:44,969 --> 00:10:48,509 Donahue D'Souza: captured in this survey, and that's why I think when 181 00:10:48,510 --> 00:10:51,870 Donahue D'Souza: you're pivoting towards an actively managed investment, because you prefer 182 00:10:51,870 --> 00:10:55,290 Donahue D'Souza: to have a professional supervise and have oversight over that 183 00:10:55,290 --> 00:11:00,000 Donahue D'Souza: investment, some of those managed funds have a 5,000 or a $10, 000 minimum. 184 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,839 Donahue D'Souza: So that, I suspect, is what's been captured in this survey. 185 00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:06,989 Jennifer Duke: That makes sense. And one more question, just because since 186 00:11:07,230 --> 00:11:09,960 Jennifer Duke: I'm curious, if we were to do this interview again 187 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,620 Jennifer Duke: in six months time with another survey result, what figure 188 00:11:13,620 --> 00:11:15,420 Jennifer Duke: would you like to see improvement on most? 189 00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:20,399 Donahue D'Souza: I think I'd definitely like to see improvement in the 190 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,878 Donahue D'Souza: female participation. I'd like to see that segment a lot 191 00:11:23,879 --> 00:11:27,870 Donahue D'Souza: more involved. And there are, there's plenty of female financial 192 00:11:27,870 --> 00:11:32,280 Donahue D'Souza: advisors, female financial commentators, so some really good role models 193 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,590 Donahue D'Souza: out there as well and the industry as a whole 194 00:11:34,590 --> 00:11:37,049 Donahue D'Souza: is working really hard. One thing I would like to 195 00:11:37,049 --> 00:11:39,419 Donahue D'Souza: call out though is that in this survey, which we 196 00:11:39,420 --> 00:11:41,458 Donahue D'Souza: haven't talked about yet, but I'm going to drop it 197 00:11:41,458 --> 00:11:45,000 Donahue D'Souza: in now, is that the survey, the respondents show that 198 00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:47,640 Donahue D'Souza: in the last year there must have been a surge 199 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,449 Donahue D'Souza: in the number of social media platforms and social media 200 00:11:51,450 --> 00:11:54,719 Donahue D'Souza: commentators in the finance world. I think it got a 201 00:11:54,719 --> 00:11:57,149 Donahue D'Souza: little bit crowded and a little bit too noisy, because 202 00:11:57,150 --> 00:12:00,990 Donahue D'Souza: the survey showed that they're pulling away from social media 203 00:12:01,170 --> 00:12:06,000 Donahue D'Souza: and they're going to the usual, reliable podcasts, financial websites, 204 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,229 Donahue D'Souza: issuers, and fund managers, and the traditional sources of information, 205 00:12:10,469 --> 00:12:13,319 Donahue D'Souza: where they would get their economical financial updates. 206 00:12:13,770 --> 00:12:16,590 Jennifer Duke: That's fascinating. That's truly some food for thought, I think. 207 00:12:17,129 --> 00:12:19,320 Jennifer Duke: Don, thank you so much for talking to Fear and Greed. 208 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:21,810 Donahue D'Souza: Thank you so much, Jen. Thank you for having me. 209 00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:25,380 Jennifer Duke: And that was Don D'Souza, Head of Investments at HSBC 210 00:12:25,380 --> 00:12:28,590 Jennifer Duke: Australia. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Remember, 211 00:12:28,590 --> 00:12:31,588 Jennifer Duke: this is general information only, and you should seek professional 212 00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:35,489 Jennifer Duke: advice before making any investment decisions. Join us every morning 213 00:12:35,490 --> 00:12:38,069 Jennifer Duke: for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's best 214 00:12:38,070 --> 00:12:42,059 Jennifer Duke: business podcast. I'm Jennifer Duke, Economics Correspondent at Capital Brief. 215 00:12:42,090 --> 00:12:42,838 Jennifer Duke: Have a great day.