WEBVTT - The Media Show | 7 June 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.040 Vince is the Media Show with Jack Houghton. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:07.960 Good evening and welcome to the show. I'm Jack Houghton, 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.560 and tonight my guests are the Australians Darren Davidson and 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.520 James bolt Off Sky News. Later in the show, we're 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.160 going to get into a crisis at the ABC. But first, 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:23.080 the fallout of Donald Trump's hush money convictions continues and 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:25.840 some of the media have been claiming that this is 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:27.680 going to be the end of the former president. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.040 But other than his breathless seke of fans whose entire 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:33.520 identity is wrapped up in their slavish devotion to the guy, 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:37.200 there was no major show of support, no protests, certainly 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.360 no violence, and that's going to be especially worrisome for Trump, 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.519 considering his strength is derived from the optics that his 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.360 supporters will heed his every back and call. Once that 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.159 illusion is pierced, it becomes clear that Trump's power is 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.800 built on a house of cards and starting to come down. 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.720 And while MSNBC thinks Trump's days are number back here 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.480 in Australia, our journalists have a different take. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.240 Say they're worried about the leadership in the United States. 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:08.000 Whatever the result in November's election. Even before Donald Trump 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:12.399 became a convicted felon six in ten, Australians were concerned 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.200 about him returning to the wine house. According to a 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.200 new pole commissioned by Q and A, it's a big 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.640 year for elections India, the UK and of course America, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.920 and the results will have implications for the future of 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:26.200 democracy itself. 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.880 Democracy itself. That does sound serious and where have I 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:32.679 heard that kind of rhetoric before. 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.760 Arnold Trump wants to destroy not only the city but 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.360 the country, and eventually he could destroy the world and 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.080 elections forget about it. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:44.880 That's over, that's done. 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.840 If he gets in I can tell you right now 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:49.880 he will never leave. 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:52.760 But surely the media is not just following the lead 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.560 of crazy actors. The media would never be inflammatory. I mean, 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.760 this is a serious issue Q and A have just 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.720 the democracy is on the line. So I look forward 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.120 to this very serious analysis of that very real. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.920 Threat, because, as Nick said, the media just endlessly obsessed 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:10.200 with him. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:12.359 I never want to hear the words Donald Trump ever. 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.320 Again in my life. Yeah, and as someone who is living, Yeah, 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.880 and it's interesting part of the problem. I am part 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:20.280 of the problem. And every time they do it. I 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.840 think I'm giving this day. Yeah, come on, come on, 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:23.640 where is the point? 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:24.640 Where is the point? 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:25.880 But the point is people love me? 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.240 Now, bring in the panel, Darren. Thanks for joining us 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.720 on the show. For Q and A to assert that 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.480 democracy is on the line and then to transition to 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.160 some asonine impersonations of Donald Trump. It seems to me 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.440 like they're not taking their own fears too seriously. 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.079 Yeah, I think the well, nobody doubts the sincerity of 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.840 the jurors in the case. I think many American voterism 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:52.760 and a lot of people around the world will conclude 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:55.519 that while Trump may be a bit of a cad, 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.520 it doesn't actually the case. The judgment doesn't disqualify him 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:01.280 from running the White House again. And I think with 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.560 this legal action, which a lot of people perceive to 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.280 be a tool for a political agenda on part of 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:09.840 the Democrats, what it really does is just open up 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:13.320 another kind of destabilizing period in American politics. 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:15.880 Yeah, James, let's bring you in. What do you make 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:17.960 for Do you think Donald Trump is a very real 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:21.040 threat to democracy? And do you think by publishing an 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:24.680 effective impersonation of him, Q and A is going to that. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.040 Ten seconds so well, he's done it. 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.519 Yeah, yeah, But like I mean, the whole thing about 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.680 the American democracy. People do tend to forget that America 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:34.880 was literally involved in the Civil War. As to whether 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.520 or not America can survive four years of Trump presidency, 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:39.600 they literally survived the Civil War and they're still in America. 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.360 So I think those concerns are a bit over the top. 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.520 But the problem that the freakouts like Q and A 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:47.920 have and their sister freakouts over in the US have 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.320 is that I think it actually fuels Trump's base. In 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.640 that twenty sixteen Trump was the outside of candidate. He 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.440 was there to shake things up, and you know the 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:59.320 system that works against you. He's going to come in 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:01.480 like a wrecking ball and everything's going to be different. 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.440 And in twenty twenty you're no longer the outside of candidate. 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.440 You're the sitting president. And in twenty twenty four you're 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:08.960 also the former president. You're not an outsider. Now that 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.440 there's a legal case against him and all those same 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.120 threat to democracy, this is the birth of fascism. We're 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.760 all worried he becomes the outsider again. Now the phrase 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:24.640 convicted fellon Maybe that alienates true true neutrals in Trump v. 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:25.120 Biden. 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.359 But if you're a Republican vote and you go, I 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:31.560 don't really want to vote for Trump, but then this happens, 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:33.520 they are actually out to get us. That is a 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.000 motivating factor for people to get out and vote for him. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.640 So I think freak outs like what we just saw 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:40.400 there aren't doing themselves any. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.719 Favors you could have, not playing in the Republican's favor. 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:44.920 And it's something interesting from that Q AND episode as well, 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.680 Patricia Carvella cited the figure of six out of ten 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.560 Australians are concerned about Trump. You have to wait till 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.520 halfway through the show before she explained that fifty two 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.040 percent or five out of ten Australians were worried about 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.040 Joe Biden taking offers. 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:00.920 So shows as. 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.240 Everyone's worried no matter which way it goes either one 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:03.480 of them. 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:04.040 That's right. 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:05.440 And the truth of the matter is that what American 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:09.000 boaches ready care about is immigration, jobs, economy. Those are 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:10.520 the issues that matter. And I think by the time 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.000 the election comes around this this case will be forgotten about. 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.440 Yeah, well said, well, let's move on now to a 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.680 crisis at nine, which just got a whole lot worse 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.640 yesterday when cher Peter Costello appeared to shoulder charge a 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.039 journalist to the ground. 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.919 Were you aware of the allegations against mister Wick before 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:29.880 he left nine? 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:30.880 Thank you? 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.320 Were you aware of those allegations? Mister Costillo? Why won't 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.280 you support mister sneezebe publicly good to see? Well, you've 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.120 got to answer the questions, mister Costello. It's great. 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:47.520 You've just assaulted. 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:52.080 You've just assaulted me. 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.320 The reporter was the Australians Liam Mendez. And if you 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.800 think he went too hard in his pursuit of Costello, 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.680 as I have seen a lot of commentary suggests, keep 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.960 in mind that Costello is the boss of nine. It's 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.440 the company which brings us scenes like this one from 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.240 last week all the time that was. 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:12.400 Anything I'm not here to answer question yep. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.880 From this reaction, it's hard to believe he wanted anything 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:17.520 to do with this. 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.960 Hands off, hands of hands off. 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.159 Costello is a big boy and his reporters play the 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.080 game just as hard as anyone else. So what did 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.599 Costello say about the incident? Well, for them, it was 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:32.159 all a simple accident. 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:38.760 A reporter walking backwards with his phone filming as I 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:42.200 walked past him, he walked back into an advertising placard 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.280 and he fell over. I did not strike him. 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.359 Gee, it must have been a fairly transparent placard because 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.760 you could not see it on the video, and that's 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:55.640 not how multiple witnesses described the event. But whoever you 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.159 back in this blue, one thing's for sure. It was 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.200 big news and well done to the Sydney Morning Herald 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.719 for not shying away from this fact. They ran the 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.600 story digitally within an hour of the incident and even 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:10.760 published this front page in the morning. And interestingly, we 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.720 couldn't help but notice even the SMH wasn't buying the 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:19.040 chair of their own company's excuse. Costello assaults reporter. Now, 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.440 those tiny quote marks do little to water down the assertion, 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.480 and it raises the question if Nine's own publishing arm 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.160 things Costello likely told a porky. How does the bloke 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:37.240 keep his job? Well, Darren sensational story by The Australian. 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.080 Now linam Mendez is one of your reporters. Can you 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.400 walk me through what he is saying to you guys 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:45.720 about the shoulder charge? Can you give me any of 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:47.040 the background, Scoop. 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.440 Well, Liam doesn't want the story to be about Liam. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.400 Liam wants the story My apologies, Yeah, Liam wants the 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.800 story wait to be about the story which he was 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:00.960 asking some very personal, important questions about serious misconduct allegations 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.480 that have been leveled by many members of staff at 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.080 Channel nine, and many of them are female members of staff. 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.880 Cassello fronts and chairs a publicly listed company. It's his 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.120 job to answer those questions, and a Liam was doing 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:15.880 his job as a journalist and behaved in a very 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:20.800 professional manner. I think it's remarkable that Liam managed to 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:25.560 get up from being pushed over, gain his composure and 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:31.520 continue to ask very good, important questions. Now there's a 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.880 good piece actually on this straining his website today by 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.560 Tim Burrows, the publisher of Our Made and Media Remarking outlet, 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.160 And what Tim says is really really interesting. He makes 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.760 a couple of points. One is he questions Cassello's behavior 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:50.240 after the sharp pointing out that he doesn't actually ask 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.960 how Liam is Lian falls on his back, and that's 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.320 that's quite a serious that's a serious thing, and that 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.720 The second thing that Tim makes a point about is 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.240 that Costello shares a company that every single day asks 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.280 its journalists to go to put them in harm's way 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:10.079 and ask important questions, and he no longer has the 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.360 moral authority to do that, and he should resign. I mean, 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.679 it's pretty clear from that video that he he chugs Liam. 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:19.520 That's very, very very clear. 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.280 And as you pointed out, as well as eyewitnesses that 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.079 can corroborate that as well, Liam was just going about 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.040 doing his job as a journalist, and hats off to him. 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.720 It's an important story and the way in which Lim 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.800 behaved was beyond approach. 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.880 You can see Costello's shoulder drop slightly in the moment 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.319 for impact. That to me is quite telling also the witnesses. 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.520 But James Darren raises a good point. There was actually 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.120 a moment in the clip when Liam actually said to Costello, well, 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.840 you're the head of nine, and your nine reporters do 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.239 this all the time. There is a bit of hypocrisy, 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:57.600 and you know, I think a lot of punters because 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.439 I've read some commentaries saying, well, the reporter shouldn't have 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:01.320 gotten in front of him. 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:03.000 The reporter got on the road. 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.840 But that's the game that Costello plays. His media organization 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:08.760 operates like that. And now that he's got a bit 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:10.840 of a taste of his own medicine, he appeared to 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.760 lose his cool and allegedly assault this journalist. 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.440 Yeah, it's a tough one for me because I'm personally 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:18.839 close to some members of the Costello family and also 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:20.079 Liam is a friend of the. 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:21.800 Show that I produce here at Sky. 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.000 So as to what happened, I'll wait for the CCTV 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.800 to come out the Australians version of the Separuta film. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:29.440 We'll go over a frame by frame. 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.040 I will acknowledge that if you have to give a 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:36.079 second doorstop after your first door stop, the first door stop. 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:37.679 Probably didn't go the way you were wanting it to. 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:39.360 So I'll leave that one there. 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.360 But the other thing that I'm noticing about this story, 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.600 and Paul Murray pointed it out in his show last night, 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.839 is that at the second doorstop, where Costello talks about 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.280 the incident, no reporter mentions any of the questions that 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:53.520 Liam was rightfully asking Peter Costello. 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:55.560 They're all about, you know, did you show the charge, 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:56.960 did you strike? What's next? 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:02.199 So if I'm Andrew Giles, for instance, I'm seeing, Okay, 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.160 this is how I can change the conversation, Like maybe 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:06.480 next time he's a depressor. Does he just launch himself 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:08.400 with the first journalist knowing that no one's going to 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.160 follow up with a question about ZD and ees. 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.840 All they need to do is just ask them about 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:14.000 the shoulder charge. 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:15.760 Yeah, and that's a good point, and you're already touched 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.600 on this a little bit. But their share price is plummeting. 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.280 And one of the allegations, which involves Costello and it 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:27.280 involves the CEO, Mike Sneezeby, is that shareholder money potentially 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.240 was paid to Darren Wick. Well, they knew they had 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.320 all these allegations hanging over his head. Instead of sacking him, 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:38.840 they arguably had cause they took shareholder cash and paid 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:40.760 him a sum. We don't know what it is. It's 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:44.240 between half a million dollars up to a million by 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:48.640 some reports. There is an onus on Costello to explain 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:49.599 that to the shareholder. 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.560 Surely, absolutely, I mean the numbers being speculated are not 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.640 insignificant at a time when the share Chentleman knows halved 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.600 in three years on Sneezebe's watch, So that does take 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.199 some explaining. They've opened an investigation and that will buy 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.320 them more time. But I kind of feel instinctively, and 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.200 it's just my view that that castello will go and 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:12.439 eventually sneez people go. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.920 As well, yeah, we'll said, well, there's been shareholder class 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:20.000 actions over less over negligence leading to dramatic drop, So 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.280 we will see what happens, but plenty more to come 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.080 in the moment. We're going to take a quick break. 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.760 Welcome back now to the ABC, which is struggling with 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.240 what seems to be a toxic culture right with bullying 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:38.400 and sexual harassment. ABC News staff survey reveals one in 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:42.760 four respondents experience bullying, one in ten was sexually harassed 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.920 over the past two years. Now blossing over the fact 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.840 that the ABC journalist who wrote that headline can't even 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.920 spell the word harassed, which only has one are we 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.040 should take these findings very seriously, even if the sub 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.360 editor didn't. Any other statutory body or government department posting 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.120 these sort of fears would cause an outcry, But for 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.280 the ABC, criticism is always somewhat stifled. 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:06.080 Now. 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.240 According to this report, women are twice as likely to 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.000 be bullied at the ABC, and the report found that 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.880 women were reluctant to come forward with complaints after being 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.640 sexually harassed. So what will happen to clean up the 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:22.280 culture in the ABC well managing director David Anderson says 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.880 the bullies and sexual harasses should leave, but that is 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:31.760 yet to be seen. Yeah, well, Darren, this is a 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.520 very serious issue. And I make the point that if 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.320 this happened at another organization there would be some call 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:43.080 for an inquiry. But those kind of stats, they speak 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.040 to a systemic issue, an issue of culture where women 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.120 aren't feeling confident to step up. And what I didn't 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.040 see from David Anderson is some kind of resolution for 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.000 that issue. And for him to come out and say 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.880 you will get rid of you if you're not following 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.320 the rules, that to me doesn't seem to address the 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.600 core issue that people have not felt comfortable to speak up, 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:06.720 presumably because of some sort of retribution. 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.680 Absolutely, women have a right to feel safe in a 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.640 work environment, and this survey has revealed some really staggering, 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.680 alarming numbers. I was quite shocked when I read the 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.120 report and went back and read the report again, and 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.320 this morning when I came in and I learned that 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.120 we were discussing this topic today, I did some research 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.760 to find out what actions they were taking as you say, 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.440 and I kept feeling like I was missing the story 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.119 or had some incomplete information because there was no inquiry. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.600 There were some statements from the chairman and the managining 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:43.960 director condemning that bad behavior in a workplace, but it 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:45.840 felt to me and maybe they've corrected this since that 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.440 wasn't there's no inquiry that there are no remedies actions. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.720 What are they doing to make people and particularly female 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.960 start at the OBC feel safe going forward, and what 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.000 are they doing to give them the confidence to actually 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.400 speak up and bring these problems to the attention of 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:02.200 senior management. 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:03.200 Yeah, exactly. 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.040 And to be fair to the ABC, this is not 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.840 a problem which is isolated to that newsroom or even 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.840 newsrooms in general. Every other business is grappling with how 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.880 to deal with this. But for people watching on to 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.920 bad behavior in the media, we've had the Channel seven allegations. 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:23.320 We've had massages put on company cards, three hundred dollars 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:29.400 t bone stakes, you know, prostitutes, arguably that kind of culture. 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.600 Channel seven, Channel nine, we've had the culture with Darren 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.640 Wick allegations. There must be people watching at home saying, God, 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.520 what on earth are these self righteous journalists doing behind 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:41.240 closed doors. 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.360 Yeah, the reason that the ABC should be held to 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.200 a higher account is because these are the people that 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.320 for years morally lecture us from on high I mean 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:53.600 just recently we've been told our a racist country by 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:57.160 an ABC journalist. Recently, you know, last year we had 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.120 the Voice shut down at threats, and stories like this 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.640 come out and they just show you that their moral certainty, 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.600 their moral high ground, is built on false foundations. 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.240 And I'm reminded by and I'm not. 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.520 Comparing this, it's a completely different situation, but I'm reminded 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.680 when I read Ronan Pharaoh's book on his reporting on 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.320 the Harvey Weinstein trial, and he talks about what he 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.760 was hearing from women with completely blanking on the name here. 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.280 I've got a written down it is Mel Streep. Sorry 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.080 for that, but he talks about with Mel Streep. He 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.160 puts all the stuff he's hearing to Merl Streep and 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.920 she goes, oh, but he donates to such good causes, 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.560 And I just go like, isn't that just relevatory of 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.520 how well, if someone's got the morally correct things on 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:38.640 moracally correct. 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.800 Views on certain issues, we ignore things about He's one 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.640 of us. He thinks one of us, so you can 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.120 give you a pass. I think there is a bit 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:46.800 of that as well. I think as well there is 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.880 a bad trend with companies where they put out this 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:55.160 corporate statement acknowledging they have issues, and the acknowledgment they 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.280 think is enough. You saw it in America with universities 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:02.560 saying that they were we acknowledge we have systemically racist ties, 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:04.639 and then there was the argument, well then why are 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.760 you taxpayer funded? And you could also make that argument 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.399 here if you have such a systemic issue, and it's 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.880 great that you're commissioning these reports and putting it out, 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.160 but if you're finding that we're paying for that, fix 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:16.600 it up. 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:21.240 Yeah, absolutely, those should be bringing in an external, independent 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.280 investigator to have a look into these complaints, and should be. 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.760 They're released four out of ten people alleging that being 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.800 bullied by ABC management and their peers. It's absurd to 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.760 do anything less. But anyway, let's move on. The Safety 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.440 Commissioner Julie Evan Grant has been forced into a humiliating 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:42.200 retreat from her fight with Elon Musk, granting the billionaire 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:46.640 of major victory against her bid to censor the global Internet. Now, 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:48.840 we've covered this issue on the show a few times. 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:53.480 In my opinion, Grant's overreach was bizarre, illogical, and embarrassing. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.200 The language that she uses is inflammatory and there is 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.000 an arrogance about this person which delegities her mission. 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:03.560 The battle has been lost. 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.120 I made a strategic decision to withdraw here, but. 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.840 The e Safety Commissioner warns the fight is just beginning. 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.440 Let's face it, the war is going to be much 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:14.720 longer and more extended. 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.520 The war. Who do you think you are? You are 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:22.040 not a soldier. The courts were clearly poised to side 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.679 against you because it is not your place to decide 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.280 what content is shown in other countries, they have sovereignty 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.400 and make up their own minds. And it was strange 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.639 and suspicious that Grant has done nothing to censor the 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.359 constant images of war from Ukraine and Gaza which are 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.760 flooding social media. Her outrage over showing vision of a 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:46.399 radicalized Muslim allegedly attacking a preacher did not extend to 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.480 other content areas. How much of your money did this 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:56.879 full waste taking on this unwinnable legal position, Well, Darren, 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:58.960 the main issue that I have with the E Safety 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.320 Commissioner's approach to this is she was probably never going 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.840 to win it. The conversation the court centered around jurisdiction 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.359 and is it fair do we have the power to 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.680 tell another country can we go, Oh, Lithuania, we don't 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.720 want you to see this video that originated from Sydney. 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.600 But also why would we even try to do that? 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.800 Why wouldn't we be focusing on what Australians can see? 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:25.600 Yeah, look, I do get that there are legitimate concerns 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.080 from security agencies about copycat attacks. At the same time, 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.000 it's probably not an interest of a fair trial for 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.720 the accused of the unedited footage to be available on 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.880 the Internet. But with this one, I think what we're 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.120 seeing really is that the federal governments just tiptoeing around 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:44.160 Muslim extremism. And that's really linked to the fact that 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.160 there are large numbers of Muslim voters in labor seats, 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:48.840 and I think that's really what's going on here in 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:49.400 the background. 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.399 Yeah, I mean, James, I a cynical part of me 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:57.119 would tend to agree as well, because you have images 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:01.680 of babies which have been horrifically blast to pieces, which 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.760 are finding the way into social media and Australians are 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.640 watching that and it is confronting, and it's far more 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.879 confronting than that. So where using a selective lens to 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.040 pick what Australians can see. And it appears to me 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.720 that the narrative behind it does matter. And so the 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.880 narrative of the guards and injuries are well, Israel's doing 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.639 a bad thing. She's happy for that that narrative to exist, 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:28.520