1
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,080
Speaker 1: To them, it's Harps, it's Stiff, it's Lily, and it's

2
00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,360
Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook. It to Craig Anthony Harper, it's Lily

3
00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:07,600
Speaker 1: and Madam.

4
00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,319
Speaker 2: Been featured, Well, now it has. But before we get

5
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:15,680
Speaker 2: to you, we'll start with the Bogan.

6
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,279
Speaker 1: The Bogan dog owner and cat owner who was just

7
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,040
Speaker 1: showing off her her dog.

8
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,520
Speaker 2: Which a noodle.

9
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,520
Speaker 1: She's a little bit aloof your dog, Like she's a

10
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,520
Speaker 1: little bit like she loves you, but she's a little

11
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,159
Speaker 1: bit like hug me, but no, don't and then like

12
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,320
Speaker 1: look away, Yeah, a bit hard to get.

13
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,000
Speaker 3: She's yeah, like she wants your attention all the time,

14
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,559
Speaker 3: and then the moment you give it to her and

15
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:39,800
Speaker 3: you want hers, she's like.

16
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:48,360
Speaker 1: Maybe I've got stuff to do. Yeah, maybe, like I've had.

17
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,879
Speaker 1: My last dog was a Golden Retriever. Well, they just

18
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 1: want your attention all the time. They want kisses, they

19
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,920
Speaker 1: want cuddles, they want food, and then if you're not

20
00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,800
Speaker 1: giving them kisses, cuddles or food, they're asleep. But if

21
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,720
Speaker 1: they're not doing that, then it's it's one of the

22
00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,440
Speaker 1: other three. So are you a dog person, Lilyan.

23
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:10,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, we have a koboodle as well, and he is gorgeous.

24
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,520
Speaker 4: He's a beautiful dog with lots of personality. He likes cuddles.

25
00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,959
Speaker 4: So if I'm sitting on the couch, she wants to

26
00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 4: be on my lap. And if I don't feel like

27
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,000
Speaker 4: him being on my lap, he'll go and try to

28
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,400
Speaker 4: find some other lab or he'll sleep like he's very sleepy,

29
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:26,320
Speaker 4: very chill dog.

30
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 1: The very diffinite definition of a lap dogs. It's funny

31
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 1: how many versions of spoodles slash noodles, kavoodles, goodles, noodles.

32
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,280
Speaker 1: I can se many doodles, doodles, labradoodles.

33
00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:48,840
Speaker 4: There's noodles of doodles, noodles of doodles.

34
00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,360
Speaker 2: My mom said, My mum calls them.

35
00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,760
Speaker 1: Well, in the old days, like dogs that were kind

36
00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: of interbreed dogs, they were called pavement specials or bitss

37
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 1: right because it would just be. But now they called

38
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,760
Speaker 1: designer dogs. And then the old days that were free

39
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:07,800
Speaker 1: and now they eight grand.

40
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,120
Speaker 4: Oh. Yeah, they they're pricey, pricey little gems.

41
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,440
Speaker 2: Not giving those noodles away, are they?

42
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 1: No? Tell us about your middle name, maddi Ama, tell

43
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 1: us about that.

44
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, my middle name is well, my heritage is Iranian.

45
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,960
Speaker 4: Both my parents were born there and my mother's aunt

46
00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 4: was named Matty Am and she had a very significant

47
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,359
Speaker 4: caretaking role for my mother. So she loved her, and

48
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 4: so she wanted to honor her by making my middle

49
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:43,239
Speaker 4: name her name.

50
00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:44,280
Speaker 2: I love that.

51
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,080
Speaker 1: I love that, all right, So are you ready to

52
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,119
Speaker 1: put on your clinical psychologist hat?

53
00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,560
Speaker 4: I mean, if I must, I will bang some questions

54
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,959
Speaker 4: out young and a bang to feel free, also to

55
00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:58,720
Speaker 4: bang a question.

56
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,720
Speaker 1: I know you to go together recently behind my back.

57
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:02,720
Speaker 1: I'm not upset at all.

58
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:06,280
Speaker 2: That's fine, that's fine.

59
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:07,800
Speaker 4: I talked about you the whole time.

60
00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,880
Speaker 2: Craig, I saw it online. I was only a little

61
00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,000
Speaker 2: bit hurt.

62
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,919
Speaker 4: Really. I met Tiff through you, obviously, but I met

63
00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,680
Speaker 4: her in person when we were at the gym together.

64
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 2: And did you trying together to tip punch you in

65
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,639
Speaker 2: the face? What was the no?

66
00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 4: She was she was working out at the same time,

67
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,760
Speaker 4: and I don't think we've had the pleasure of training

68
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,760
Speaker 4: together yet. Maybe that's something for the future.

69
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:39,720
Speaker 3: I'm working towards it.

70
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's do that. I just had to get to

71
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,240
Speaker 4: the gym in order to do that, so that helps.

72
00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 2: That helps.

73
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 4: It does actually be there.

74
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 3: I'm on the dog front. Can I just say, mind,

75
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,480
Speaker 3: client has an assistant dog that I that was in

76
00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,680
Speaker 3: today for the second time, and you know how much

77
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,680
Speaker 3: self control it takes. It's like the dogs looking at

78
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,160
Speaker 3: me and I'm looking at the dog and we're both

79
00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,360
Speaker 3: going neither of us allowed to because you got your

80
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:06,800
Speaker 3: jacket on.

81
00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 1: It's hard.

82
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,800
Speaker 2: So you meant did you say I thought you said

83
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,839
Speaker 2: an assistant You meant was an assistant dog? Right right,

84
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,680
Speaker 2: right right? I thought assistant like the dog was. I

85
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,800
Speaker 2: thought the dog was taking notes while you two were

86
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:28,320
Speaker 2: training and just sending emails. Wow. Can I ask.

87
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,839
Speaker 1: So just to kind of is it without giving away

88
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,159
Speaker 1: anything you can't So for that particular client, is it

89
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,000
Speaker 1: like one of like a companion help me stay calm dog?

90
00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 3: Yes, so it's so they it's a PTSD so for

91
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,599
Speaker 3: anxiety and mental health. They're incredible animals. But yeah, it's

92
00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 3: like they're still animals, but you think they're like this

93
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 3: or they are highly trained, but they're there with their

94
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 3: jacket on, looking at you so that you'll invite them

95
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,559
Speaker 3: and they know they're not allowed, and I on loud

96
00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,600
Speaker 3: and we're most just like this. It would have been

97
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,599
Speaker 3: like the jacket comes off and it's like Craig Harper

98
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 3: rolling around on the floor.

99
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 2: That's the best.

100
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 1: Just rub my tummy, it would have been. Yeah, that

101
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:16,880
Speaker 1: will be difficult for you. I did a gig a

102
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,840
Speaker 1: few years ago, quite a few years, maybe five, And

103
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,799
Speaker 1: this is how long it was ago. I can't remember.

104
00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,960
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm not meant to say, but it was. It

105
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,400
Speaker 1: was a group of police officers dealing with PTSD. You

106
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,719
Speaker 1: might know about this. Maybe you were the segue to this.

107
00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, because I know you've done stuff with

108
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:34,640
Speaker 1: the cops as.

109
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,120
Speaker 2: Well as I have. But so it was a bunch of.

110
00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:45,560
Speaker 1: Past and current police officers who have experienced PTSD, and.

111
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:46,760
Speaker 2: So they have this group.

112
00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,599
Speaker 1: But there was twenty of them, give or take, and

113
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,200
Speaker 1: about a dozen of them had their dogs. They have

114
00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 1: therapy dogs or comfort dogs or companion whatever with them.

115
00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,159
Speaker 1: Do you think I could fucking concentrate.

116
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:00,640
Speaker 2: Right?

117
00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is this is like, you know, you

118
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,279
Speaker 1: can't you can't ask me to just stand up here

119
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,960
Speaker 1: and be focused. I can't do my job. But also

120
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 1: the same thing, but I spoke to I spoke to

121
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,240
Speaker 1: you know. Obviously, I did my presentation and we did

122
00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 1: an interaction and group Q and A. But then we

123
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 1: kind of let our metaphoric hair down and fucked around

124
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 1: a little bit. But those dogs are incredible, and is

125
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,799
Speaker 1: there is there? I mean off the question without notice,

126
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:36,200
Speaker 1: doc like obviously for some people, depending on I mean,

127
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,880
Speaker 1: if you hate dogs, then dogs are not therapeutic. But

128
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:46,920
Speaker 1: who hates dogs? But animals can be like a therapy

129
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,560
Speaker 1: all by themselves.

130
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:52,600
Speaker 4: Right, Absolutely, I do therapeutic tool absolutely for sure, and

131
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,559
Speaker 4: they help with a whole range of things, like even

132
00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:00,000
Speaker 4: just the basic just having a companion, just like with loneliness. Yeah,

133
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,039
Speaker 4: but I think that they do have this kind of

134
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,560
Speaker 4: calming effect on people as well, So it doesn't have

135
00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 4: to be a therapy dog to be therapeutic.

136
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 1: I was asked, I was talking yesterday or the day

137
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,000
Speaker 1: before toe if I don't know, I do too many podcasts,

138
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 1: but we were talking about the pros and cons of

139
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 1: AI becoming And I use this word in inverted commas

140
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:29,600
Speaker 1: a friend or a companion something because it's evolving so

141
00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:36,480
Speaker 1: quickly and its linguistic capabilities or language capabilities, and we

142
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,800
Speaker 1: know it's not a human to human conversation, but it

143
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 1: is a version of a conversation because you can ask

144
00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,480
Speaker 1: it questions and ants. It'll ask you how you're feeling,

145
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,320
Speaker 1: it'll compliment you. Even with chat GPT, I'll ask a question,

146
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,000
Speaker 1: it'll go great question, Craig, it uses my name and

147
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,640
Speaker 1: it compliments me. Which is why now in my top

148
00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,000
Speaker 1: five friends, which I've mentioned a few times on the show,

149
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,040
Speaker 1: your thoughts from a psychological and emotional health point of

150
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:11,440
Speaker 1: view people building this kind of relationship, Like, clearly it's

151
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,360
Speaker 1: not a human to human relationship, but if people feel

152
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:21,600
Speaker 1: less stressed and anxious because they can interact with this

153
00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:27,040
Speaker 1: whatever it is, with this kind of intelligence, what are

154
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,040
Speaker 1: the pros and cons? And I mean, I know you

155
00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 1: haven't done research on this, but just as a psychologist.

156
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,440
Speaker 4: This is actually a really timely topic. Because I went

157
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:42,280
Speaker 4: to a talk today about emerging technology just out of interest.

158
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,400
Speaker 4: It wasn't necessarily related to my worker healthcare, although it

159
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 4: obviously has healthcare implications. But like you said, technology is,

160
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,920
Speaker 4: you know, being developed at a rapid way, and right

161
00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:59,720
Speaker 4: now it's AI and generative AI that are what's exciting

162
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,920
Speaker 4: people now, what people are starting to use, and the

163
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,760
Speaker 4: questions you're asking are really important because I think that

164
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,440
Speaker 4: you know, with every benefit, there's also a limitation and

165
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:15,760
Speaker 4: a potential problem. So like in terms of what you

166
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,079
Speaker 4: were saying for like, if you know, thinking about just

167
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:25,640
Speaker 4: having access, So accessibility is probably the main benefit, Like

168
00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:31,839
Speaker 4: everybody can have access to something like chat GBT. Everybody

169
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:37,200
Speaker 4: can ask, you know, these open AI sources questions about

170
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,280
Speaker 4: a range of topics, whether it's health or mental health

171
00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:45,080
Speaker 4: or flights or you know, like the best where program

172
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:50,600
Speaker 4: to use whatever. And so that's I think a really

173
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:56,760
Speaker 4: helpful thing. However, I suppose in terms of some of

174
00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:01,840
Speaker 4: the limitations or issues to be aware of is knowing

175
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:06,160
Speaker 4: like what what data is being put in to that

176
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,720
Speaker 4: open source, because what's put in is what's coming out,

177
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:17,040
Speaker 4: So do we know that it's good data? I'm the

178
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,760
Speaker 4: woman that was talking today for instance, she said, I

179
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,800
Speaker 4: guess it's a phrase like crap in, crap out. You

180
00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,320
Speaker 4: know what data is being put in? What are the

181
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 4: biases of that data? Who's in control of the company

182
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,559
Speaker 4: that put for instance chat ept out? Do they have biases?

183
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,920
Speaker 4: Do they where are they get their stuff from? And

184
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:44,160
Speaker 4: really being aware of that, and sometimes you you would

185
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,440
Speaker 4: only know if the data is good if you're a

186
00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:52,120
Speaker 4: subject matter expert in that area, Like for instance, if

187
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,720
Speaker 4: I go in and I want to ask it a

188
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 4: research or a psych psych question, and not just to

189
00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,080
Speaker 4: make my life easier and more efficient. I'll just I'll

190
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,440
Speaker 4: stick something in there and I'll give me something back,

191
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,240
Speaker 4: and I'll be able to look at that information and

192
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:13,600
Speaker 4: I'll be able to say, oh, that part is good data,

193
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 4: like yes, yes, it's saying it in the way that

194
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,280
Speaker 4: I want to say, which is the helpful part. Right,

195
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,079
Speaker 4: So I don't have to think through and like spend

196
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,960
Speaker 4: an hour like trying to write something for instance, but

197
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,520
Speaker 4: I can tell when it's giving me good information and

198
00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,080
Speaker 4: not good information because I'm a subject matter expert in psychology,

199
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,040
Speaker 4: so I can have that critical eye, whereas somebody who

200
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:41,199
Speaker 4: doesn't have that background might not. No, and I've definitely

201
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:46,079
Speaker 4: had that experience with chat EBT where it's lied to me.

202
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,680
Speaker 4: I don't know if you've had that experience or not.

203
00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

204
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,440
Speaker 1: Well, even sometimes i'll simon as you, I'll I'll talk

205
00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,680
Speaker 1: something in that I know the answer to, because I

206
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,679
Speaker 1: just want to see what it says, you know, And

207
00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,560
Speaker 1: it's especially especially in relation to my PhD, because I've

208
00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,680
Speaker 1: spent five years researching you know, a drop of water

209
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,520
Speaker 1: in an ocean of kind of science, you know, and

210
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,840
Speaker 1: so there's probably not a heap of people in the

211
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,240
Speaker 1: world who know more than I do at this point

212
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 1: in time about what I'm researching. And then and it's

213
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:27,640
Speaker 1: taking from a very generic, broad not necessarily accurate pool

214
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,560
Speaker 1: of information, and some of the answers that come back,

215
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,199
Speaker 1: not only are they incorrect, they're wildly incorrect, like it's

216
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 1: actually talking about something else, it's defining a different term.

217
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:40,959
Speaker 2: Or something like that.

218
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:47,600
Speaker 1: But Yeah, I think, and you know, it's not going away.

219
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,719
Speaker 1: I mean that, and neither I guess does it need to?

220
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 1: I think we need to figure out how we're going

221
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:57,359
Speaker 1: to coexist with with actual knowledge and data and biological

222
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:03,520
Speaker 1: kind of an artificial and technological reality side by side,

223
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,600
Speaker 1: because it doesn't matter how much we jump up and

224
00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:10,600
Speaker 1: down about the perils of technology and AI and social media.

225
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,600
Speaker 1: None of it's going away even if we want it to.

226
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 1: So I guess we need to figure out how is

227
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,440
Speaker 1: the best way that we interface with it, if at all. Yeah,

228
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,360
Speaker 1: and self manage, like, how do I manage me my mind,

229
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:31,840
Speaker 1: my body, my emotions, myself with a capital S in

230
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,520
Speaker 1: the middle of all of this shit that you know

231
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,720
Speaker 1: may or may not be helpful to me.

232
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,199
Speaker 4: That's right, and I think that's probably why if we're

233
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 4: thinking about what the education system should start developing more,

234
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,600
Speaker 4: it's things like critical analysis skills. Yeah, it's things like

235
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:59,960
Speaker 4: ethical uses of technology, even things like if you just

236
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,080
Speaker 4: think about people going into university now and the types

237
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,640
Speaker 4: of jobs that are going to be sought after in

238
00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,360
Speaker 4: the future. It's not just there's so much happening, Like

239
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,680
Speaker 4: the talk that I went today just blew my mind,

240
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,319
Speaker 4: Like it's not just AI's just like today's technology. Of course,

241
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,240
Speaker 4: that to develop further over time, but there's and there's

242
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 4: also what's called spatial computing, which is things like virtual reality,

243
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 4: augmented reality, metaverse stuff that's also has already emerged and

244
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,720
Speaker 4: is being developed. But the thing that's coming. I don't

245
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,200
Speaker 4: know if you've heard of this. You probably have because

246
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,360
Speaker 4: you've talked to talk to everybody and people who know

247
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,560
Speaker 4: much more about this than I do, because I literally

248
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,160
Speaker 4: just listen to a talk today. But it's called quantum computing.

249
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,200
Speaker 4: Have you talked to someone about that.

250
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've done a couple of episodes on it.

251
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty crazy, like what these computers are going

252
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,160
Speaker 4: to be able to do in the next potentially ten years,

253
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:59,040
Speaker 4: maybe even less than that. There's a lot of implications

254
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 4: for that in the future and what we need our

255
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 4: current I guess eighteen year olds studying is not just

256
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 4: computer science, but like all of the other like having

257
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 4: this type of lens on whatever they're doing. So if

258
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,400
Speaker 4: it's psychology, if it's law, if it's politics, if it's

259
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 4: you know, marketing, like everything, you kind of need to

260
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:29,720
Speaker 4: know like what you're going to be facing in regard

261
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,160
Speaker 4: to these kinds of emerging technologies over the next ten years.

262
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,080
Speaker 1: And also just trying to differentiate between doc between what

263
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,600
Speaker 1: is real and what is what is something that's been produced,

264
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,920
Speaker 1: because you know, the videos, the video and the audio

265
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 1: and the pictures that are being artificially created now are

266
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 1: so good that's I mean.

267
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 2: They're so good that you can't tell.

268
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,080
Speaker 1: And so my training partner, the Crab, who's also old

269
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,760
Speaker 1: as fuck like me, but probably not quite. I'm no

270
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,640
Speaker 1: tech guru, but I'm light years I'm fucking Steve Jobs

271
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: compared to him.

272
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,800
Speaker 2: Well that's not true, Steve Jobs.

273
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 1: Instead, you know, like I'm somewhat ahead of him just

274
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 1: because of my work, right, And he'll often send me

275
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 1: a video and it's not real, and I can see

276
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 1: in like ten or twenty seconds that I'll know somebody

277
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 1: created this. This is not real, but for somebody, and

278
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm behind Tiff and TIFFs behind the

279
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,240
Speaker 1: sixteen year old, right or whatever.

280
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,040
Speaker 2: But we're all down the line.

281
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 1: But it's becoming harder and harder to figure out what is,

282
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 1: what is real, and what is not real. And I

283
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,720
Speaker 1: think that's going to be you know where, like even

284
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,320
Speaker 1: probably two months ago, Patrick who's our tech guy we

285
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,240
Speaker 1: do every fortnight, we do a tech show with him,

286
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 1: and one episode he said to me, as we started

287
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,880
Speaker 1: the show, just like we have now, he said something like,

288
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 1: it's not fair that you always get to introduce the show,

289
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,120
Speaker 1: and I said, well, this is on air, right, I said, well,

290
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,560
Speaker 1: you introduced the show, and then he proceeded to play

291
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,120
Speaker 1: this thing that he'd created, which was my voice.

292
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,680
Speaker 2: And his words, wow, right, And I.

293
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,480
Speaker 1: Mean I could discern obviously I knew it wasn't me, yeah,

294
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,199
Speaker 1: but the way that it was put together, and he

295
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,480
Speaker 1: put it together very quickly, it was just my voice

296
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,880
Speaker 1: that he'd scripted some sentences for.

297
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:31,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

298
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,160
Speaker 1: And like if my mum heard that, there's no way

299
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 1: that she wouldn't think that that was me talking.

300
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and that's I mean, there are already

301
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,959
Speaker 4: scams about that now orl yeah and yeah, the future

302
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 4: of identity is like a big thing.

303
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 2: Well that's why they say.

304
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,719
Speaker 1: Now you need to have a key question or you know,

305
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,520
Speaker 1: so if your kids ring and go mom, I'm stuck somewhere,

306
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 1: I need you to wire me a thousand bucks, or

307
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 1: you need to have a pre arranged question or kind

308
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:09,080
Speaker 1: of work right, something safe word or yeah, all right,

309
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,359
Speaker 1: I want to jump off ai because we probably flogged

310
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,360
Speaker 1: a bit too much on this show. So question one

311
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,080
Speaker 1: for you in the realm of your area of expertises.

312
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,159
Speaker 1: And I know there's not a categoric question to this,

313
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,919
Speaker 1: but I just want your thoughts around this. Is happiness

314
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:30,600
Speaker 1: a good goal? Is happiness? Is that a smart goal?

315
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 1: Or is there a better state that we should own for.

316
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,800
Speaker 4: I actually wrote an article several years several years ago

317
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,440
Speaker 4: called the pursuit of happiness is ruining our lives?

318
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 2: Wow, I like it.

319
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 4: Good question then, OK, yeah, I guess of course the

320
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 4: state of happiness is pleasant and we all, you know,

321
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,400
Speaker 4: like we all want that and want that as much

322
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 4: as possible, but to have it as a goal, It

323
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 4: kind of implies that it's a destination that you can

324
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:08,879
Speaker 4: reach and stay at, which so it's that's problematic because

325
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,879
Speaker 4: we know that happiness is one of many of the

326
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 4: emotions that humans experience, and we know that emotions are fleeting,

327
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 4: they're not static. Yeah, And so if you think that

328
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:30,679
Speaker 4: happiness is something that you can achieve, then you're probably

329
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 4: going to be unhappy most of the time.

330
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 1: And do you think that if, like without being sad

331
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 1: or without being stressed or anxious, or without having bad

332
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 1: days or bad moments or bad hours, that like, if

333
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 1: there was a way to hit that emotional and psychological

334
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 1: peak of happiness and we stayed there eventually, it's not

335
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 1: a peak, it's just a flat line. And if you're

336
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 1: flat lining, you did right. It's because there's no like,

337
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 1: do we need that contrast of sadness and pain and

338
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 1: anxiety and to be able to experience happiness like or

339
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 1: is it kind of like you know with the dopamine

340
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 1: thing where you eat some chocolate and give you a

341
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: certain response or cocaine or whatever it is, and then

342
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 1: over time you need more and more to get the

343
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:18,160
Speaker 1: same response.

344
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 4: That's interesting. I guess we're never going to know the

345
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 4: answer to that question, because it's not possible to achieve

346
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 4: that state. But I think the way that I look

347
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 4: at it is anything that we do that is meaningful,

348
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 4: any pursuit that we have that gives meaning to our lives,

349
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 4: comes with the full range of emotions. So even like

350
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 4: the things that we want really bad, I'll use like

351
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 4: an example that a lot of people can relate to,

352
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,919
Speaker 4: Like we might want to have children, Right, that's a

353
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 4: fairly common desire for a lot of people. So we

354
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,040
Speaker 4: want it really bad, But are we actually expecting that

355
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,160
Speaker 4: that's going to give us happiness and joy all the time?

356
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 4: It isn't, and we actually know that, right. So when

357
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 4: you if you do have kids, I have a couple,

358
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 4: the first thing you notice is that you've got a

359
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 4: wave of anxiety that's washed over you. That's probably not

360
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 4: ever going to leave, right, Like, it's just part of

361
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 4: being a parent. So and it's just it's the same

362
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 4: for like being in a relationship. Do you think that

363
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,719
Speaker 4: being in a relationship is going to make you happy

364
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 4: all the time, Because if you do, you're not going

365
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,439
Speaker 4: to be very satisfied, Like you're going to be you know,

366
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 4: very dissatisfied and disillusioned. And you know your job, like

367
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 4: pursuing the work that you do, is that going to

368
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 4: make you happy all the time? No, Like, sometimes you're

369
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 4: going to be stressed, sometimes you're going to be anxious,

370
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 4: sometimes you're going to be disappointed. And so we kind

371
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 4: of need to understand like what the human experience is

372
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,640
Speaker 4: and accept and expect the full range of that rather

373
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 4: than kind of idea of we have to have positive

374
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 4: self talk every second of the day, or something's wrong

375
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 4: with us, or we have to feel only the pleasant

376
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 4: emotions or something's wrong with us. All of our emotions,

377
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 4: whether they're pleasant or unpleasant, are functional and they serve

378
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 4: a function. And yes they can be dysfunctional as well.

379
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 4: But it's really helpful, even just as a lens or

380
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 4: a mindset to kind of just know all of your

381
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 4: emotions are valid and okay, you can accept them like

382
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 4: that instead of judging yourself for having them. Then you're

383
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 4: going to you are going to be much happier and

384
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 4: more content overall.

385
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: Relationships are interesting because I think some people think that

386
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: being in a relationship is a solution to a problem,

387
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: and it's I think sometimes people are more enough some people.

388
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: There's my disclaim. I'm more in love with the idea

389
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: of being in a relationship than the actual person they're

390
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 1: in the relationship with, you know, because and they want

391
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: to be in And obviously I'm not against relationships, of course,

392
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: I'm not against marriage, you know. But it's like, I

393
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 1: don't know that being in a relationship at all costs

394
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: is well, I don't think it's a great idea.

395
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 2: It's a great idea for some.

396
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: And it's also like I think it's you might be

397
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: with a person and it's nirvana. You be with another person,

398
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: it's a fucking toxic nightmare. Like so it's it ain't

399
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 1: just about in or out of a relationship, Like there

400
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: are a lot of variables around that. But I see

401
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: back to your kind of you know, it's what people

402
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: think they will like. There's the thing that people want,

403
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: the what and what they think it will bring them,

404
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: you know. So it's like people want to be in

405
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,479
Speaker 1: a relationship because clearly no one wants that because they

406
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: think they're going to be more miserable, so they think

407
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: that will bring them happiness, joy fulfillment, security, whatever. Or

408
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: people want to be leaner because they think that'll bring

409
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: them X Y Z or they want a bigger income, right,

410
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with that. We all do that.

411
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: We have this expectation and this correlation in our mind

412
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: of if I get.

413
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 2: X, then why will be the product? I mean, for years,

414
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 2: all I wanted to do.

415
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: Is look amazing because I was this wildly insecure, ex

416
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: fat kid, and I thought if I had an awesome body,

417
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: then I'd be awesome. You know, I thought if I

418
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: had a great body, I'd be I didn't articulate it

419
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: this way, but I know looking back how I thought, Well,

420
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: I'd be more emotionally and psychologically I'd be fine. I'd

421
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: be more attractive to someone. I wouldn't have all the

422
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: bullshit issues that I had because I'd now be walking

423
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: around in a great body. And then I got to

424
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: the point where for me, I had a relatively good

425
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: body and all my bullshit was still there because I

426
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: was trying to resolve emotional and psychological issues with bigger shoulders.

427
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, it's a hard life and to learn,

428
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 4: isn't it. I was having a conversation with one of

429
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 4: my clients recently about this, and she has, you know,

430
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 4: and a lot of my clients in the past have

431
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 4: had similar issues with body image and this kind of

432
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 4: focus on weight and that being a sign of their worth.

433
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 4: And even though intellectually they know that your weight doesn't

434
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 4: equal your worth, emotionally it.

435
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: Does, yes.

436
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 4: And what I've gotten clients to do over the years

437
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 4: is write down what they think the characteristics of someone

438
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 4: with high self esteem is right, and what's happened. And

439
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 4: you know, you never know what's going to happen when

440
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 4: you ask somebody to do something like that, But what's

441
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 4: actually happened every time I have is they'll come up

442
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 4: with a list and it'll be things like, can assert

443
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 4: their feelings confidently, well, don't care what other people think,

444
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 4: accepts their flaws, like all sorts of things like that.

445
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 4: Not one of the things is how the person looks.

446
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 4: Not one of the things is must have blonde hair,

447
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 4: blue eyes, be skinny, like. It's not ever one of

448
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 4: those things. So it's like it's almost like they don't

449
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 4: realize that they're actually wanting self worth and self esteem

450
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 4: and to accept themselves, and they think that achieving a

451
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 4: certain weight is going to give them that. Like you said,

452
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 4: it doesn't give you that because that's not one of

453
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 4: the characteristics of someone with high self esteem.

454
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: And I think that's when we set a goal. You know,

455
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: we talk about the thing that we want, and we

456
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: I think we subconsciously think that that will be the

457
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: conduit or the pathway to the thing we really want.

458
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 1: You know, nobody goes what you go, Oh, my goal

459
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: is better self esteem and more confidence, right, you know,

460
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: But their goal is to earn this orund or look

461
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: like that because they think that emotional change or that

462
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: psychological that internal shift will be the byproduct of that

463
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: external thing, you know.

464
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 2: And like with me, I got.

465
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: To the point where I had you know, like successful

466
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 1: businesses and stuff, and I won't go through this again.

467
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: But you get to the point and you go, oh,

468
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,959
Speaker 1: and now what, like I'm still a dickhead, or I'm

469
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: still insecure, I'm still not whatever. But I think, I

470
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: don't know if that's just something that happens over time

471
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: where you have to fall down and get up, or

472
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: you need to get to the top of the mountain

473
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: and go, oh fuck this, I climbed the wrong mountain.

474
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 2: But that mountain over there, or maybe it's that mountain,

475
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 2: you know.

476
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 4: But I also think, like you're not like this is

477
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 4: a conversation I had as well with the person I'm

478
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 4: thinking of and people in the past. It's not even

479
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 4: like the list of things that are characteristics of someone

480
00:27:54,560 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 4: with self esteem, they're not static things, right, Like, a

481
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 4: person with high self esteem is still going to feel

482
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 4: insecure sometimes, is still going to make mistakes, it's still

483
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 4: going to take things personally, it's still going to care

484
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 4: about what other people think sometimes. Like, it's not absolute,

485
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 4: and so I think, again, we don't want to set

486
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 4: people up to achieve this kind of this idea of

487
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 4: self esteem or self worth being being like you are

488
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 4: one hundred percent confident all the time and you never

489
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 4: experience any insecurities and you're never anxious about anything. It's like,

490
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 4: that's not real, that's not reality.

491
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: That's a great point.

492
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: That's a great point because I know that I can

493
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: simultaneously feel not good enough but know that I am.

494
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 4: Yes, that is the trick. That is literally, I think

495
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 4: the trick for like, if you want people to feel

496
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 4: psychologically healthy, to be able to hold both of those

497
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 4: ideas as true, I think is really helpful. There's this

498
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 4: therapy called dialectical behavior therapy. It was developed by Marshall

499
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 4: Lenehan in the early nineties, maybe late eighties, early nineties,

500
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 4: particularly for people with severe emotion dysregulation and who tended

501
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 4: who were often chronically suicidal, So people who were potentially

502
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 4: self harming a lot, just like very out of control

503
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 4: and disregulated in lots of areas of their life. But

504
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 4: one of the things, in terms of I'm sorry, just

505
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 4: to give you some background, like this is a therapy

506
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 4: that I've studied and I've helped people with those sorts

507
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 4: of issues as part of my practice as a psychologist

508
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 4: over the years. But what I found was that there's

509
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 4: kind of a couple parts of the therapy. One is

510
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 4: the individual therapy where you help motivate person to keep going.

511
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 4: And then there's the skills training part of the therapy,

512
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 4: which is about teaching core skills. But one of the

513
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 4: core skills is really this kind of that mindset piece

514
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 4: of life, like understanding what dialectics are. And so it's

515
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 4: exactly what you were saying before. It's like this idea

516
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 4: of there can be two opposites that are true at

517
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 4: the same time, and the reality of the world we

518
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 4: live in is that that is what that's what is true.

519
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 4: So if you can hold this idea and the kind

520
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 4: of the main dialectic of the therapy is acceptance and change,

521
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 4: so you can accept yourself fully the way you are

522
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 4: and you can know that you can do better at

523
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 4: the same time, so you're helping people. And you know,

524
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 4: initially it was just for people at kind of the

525
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: severe end of the spectrum. But what's been discovered over

526
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 4: time and certainly and when I've delivered treatment and therapy

527
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: to people, is these ideas are great for everybody across

528
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 4: the board, even people who don't have clinical problems. I

529
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 4: just think these types of skills in this type of mindset.

530
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 4: It took even a while for me, even though I

531
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 4: was teaching it to my clients, it took a while

532
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 4: for it to click in for me. How true that is?

533
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 4: And I guess I had this experience once on a

534
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 4: I was on a cruise. I was actually hired to

535
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 4: do this workshop for staff on a crew on a

536
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 4: cruise and I got so I got to go on

537
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 4: a cruise for free, which is great with my family.

538
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 4: But there was one morning where it was before I

539
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 4: was running a workshop, and I was like by myself

540
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 4: on the deck and it was this beautiful, like very calm,

541
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 4: serene morning, and I was just looking over the water

542
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 4: and I was thinking, Wow, this is like so beautiful

543
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 4: and peaceful and amazing. And at the same time, I

544
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 4: was realizing we were like in the middle of the

545
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 4: South Pacific and there was water in every direction and

546
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 4: nothing else, like there was no land anywhere, And so

547
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 4: at the moment, at the same moment, I was feeling

548
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 4: peace and serenity, as I's also like a little unsettled. Hm,

549
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 4: You're like, we're in the middle of nowhere. Something happens

550
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 4: right now, there's nobody like that's going to be able

551
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 4: to help us, because we're like literally in the middle

552
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 4: of South Pacific. So it was like, even in that moment,

553
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 4: it's like, but I can hold both of those things

554
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 4: at the same time. I can still feel that piece

555
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 4: in serenity, and I can also feel that sense of

556
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 4: like a little bit of anxiety sitting there. And if

557
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 4: you can hold both and tolerate that, I think you'll

558
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 4: feel more content and more stable overall.

559
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's an that's an ever present reality,

560
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: or you know, a frequent reality for people, like the

561
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: juxtaposition or the seemingly opposing constructs that I talk about

562
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: is being simultaneously content and ambitious because they seem like opposites.

563
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: Whereas in the moment when I.

564
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: Think about my life, my mum and dad, my friends,

565
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: my work, I'm very grateful and content. Yeah, at the

566
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: same time I'm ambitious, but there's no anxiety wrapped around it.

567
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: It's like, and there're things that I want to do

568
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: and learn and do. I want to grow and evolve

569
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: and do more stuff I do. But in the moment,

570
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: day to day, do I have a sense of gratitude

571
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: and awareness that I'm pretty fucking blessed in my life?

572
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: Is amazing? I do.

573
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: So I don't, like you said, I don't think it

574
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: needs to be one or the other. You know that

575
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: that kind of even with me, I think I'm I'm

576
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: for the most part content, But is there ever low

577
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: level anxiety? Yeah?

578
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And it's very analogous to that concept of

579
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 4: acceptance and change. And sometimes you know, like for people

580
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 4: who have very low self worth and so like the

581
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 4: underlying belief is like I'm a failure or I'm worthless,

582
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 4: and like the kind of there's a few different ways

583
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 4: that you can, you know, guide people through that, and

584
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 4: one of the ways is like kind of the cognitive

585
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 4: behavioral way, which is, you know, look at the thought,

586
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 4: where is the evidence for the thought? Challenge the thought,

587
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 4: modify the thought, practice the new thought. That's kind of

588
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 4: like the abolition of that, And that can work for

589
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 4: a lot of people. But sometimes I say, you know what,

590
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 4: what if you were a failure and a success, like,

591
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 4: can't you just can you be both? Because I think

592
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 4: that that actually represents the reality for everybody, Like we

593
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 4: all are failures and we all are a success all

594
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 4: at the same time.

595
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that I often do

596
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: wrong and people like me often do wrong. And I'm

597
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: speaking in huge general lifezations here everyone, So if it's

598
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: not you ignore this. But I think in the self

599
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: help slash personal development slash think better, do better, be

600
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: better space right that you know, there's this mindset of

601
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 1: constant and never ending improvement, of perpetual growth and learning

602
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: and evolution and development. And one that's not realistic, and

603
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: two it's also fucking exhausting.

604
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: It's okay to have a day.

605
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: Where you just goof off and produce fucking nothing. Yes,

606
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: you know, And it's like when people go to me,

607
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: what are you up to today? Even I still feel

608
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: compelled to give them a bit of a shopping list

609
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: of all the amazing shit I've got on and it's

610
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: just sometimes it's not true. I go, I've got fucking

611
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I might wash some clothes. Then I'll see

612
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: where I go from there. You know, so big day.

613
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: And I say that sometimes I don't know why people

614
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: are surprised I wash my own clothes, like I'm some

615
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: fucking movie star that can't use a washing mission. But

616
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: I think giving ourselves permission to have, you know, as

617
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: long as it's not a thousand days in a row,

618
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: but days where we're not productive, we're not absolute right,

619
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: we're not producing great outcomes. We maybe made a few

620
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: fucking dumb decisions. We may be said on the couch

621
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: with a box of pizza. It's like, it's not the

622
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: end of the world.

623
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 4: You know, I totally agree with you. I have so

624
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 4: many clients that are like really driven people, and that's great, right,

625
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 4: achieving things, growing, accomplishing, But it's not great necessarily if

626
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 4: your belief is you must be productive or you are

627
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 4: worthless yes, or you are doing the wrong thing yes,

628
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 4: And so part of what I help them understand and

629
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 4: realize if they want to. Is that exactly what you

630
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 4: just said, You know, challenge that belief. Where are you

631
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 4: getting that from? A lot of people are getting that

632
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 4: from how they grew up, right, the messages from their

633
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 4: families of origin, the people who are taking care of them.

634
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 4: There are maybe in generations before maybe that was a

635
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 4: more pervasive belief and it still is obviously, but that

636
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 4: if you you must be productive, you must be doing

637
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 4: something productive all the time. Yeah, And we internalize those

638
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 4: beliefs and then we live those beliefs, even if it's

639
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 4: not serving us, and it's like, well, maybe have a

640
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 4: look at your beliefs and see if that's how you

641
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 4: want to live your life and if it's healthy for you,

642
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 4: and if it's taking you down you know, the roads,

643
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 4: the paths that you want to actually go down. And

644
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm really good at doing nothing. I

645
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 4: have no problem doing nothing, and I have no problem

646
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 4: telling people I'm doing nothing. And you know, the more,

647
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 4: there's a lot of days where I come home, if

648
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 4: I'm working outside the home, I'll come home and I'll

649
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 4: as soon as I get home, I put my pajamas.

650
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 4: I don't want to go anywhere and do anything. If

651
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 4: I want to sit down on the couch for two hours.

652
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 4: I have like zero guilt about that. But that's not

653
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 4: the case for most people, I don't think. I think

654
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 4: a lot of people struggle with just even sitting and

655
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 4: doing nothing for ten minutes or like thirty and it's

656
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 4: just like, yeah, it's like even just that's a practice

657
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 4: that people can experiment with a little bit more and

658
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 4: see if they can tolerate being uncomfortable with not being productive,

659
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 4: even if it's just for a few minutes.

660
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: I feel like when I talk to a lot of

661
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: people about their goals in the next one two five

662
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: years of their life and what they want to change

663
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,959
Speaker 1: in the short, medium, long term, when you get through

664
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: the kind of the the obvious stuff, I want more

665
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: of this and less less of that, or I'd like

666
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: to achieve this or tick that box, or i want

667
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: to undo this healthy habit, or like a lot of

668
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: what people want when for me, anyway, when we get

669
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: down to it, is they just want to be less anxious.

670
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,919
Speaker 1: It seems like everyone is anxious and they want of course,

671
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: they want to make dough and you know, be physically

672
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: healthy and all of that, but like so many people just.

673
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: Want calm calm. It's like, I just want to be calm.

674
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 2: I can't. I worry about everything. I worry about this,

675
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: I worry about that.

676
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: And then when there is nothing to worry about, then

677
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: they create something to worry about because something might happen

678
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: in the future. It's not happening now, but in case

679
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: it does happen in the future, I've got to prepare

680
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: for it now.

681
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: And oh my god.

682
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: And it's like, really, it ain't about things. It's about

683
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: it ain't about anything really external. It's a bit maybe,

684
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: but it's really more about that internal state. And I

685
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: know this sounds cheesy, but you know that emotional and

686
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: psychological and spiritual bank balance, you know, rather than the

687
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: stuff because how many people do you know, tif No,

688
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: I know that from the outside looking in, you would

689
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: call them by all normal conventions like successful. You go, wow,

690
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: they're successful. And what we're saying is they're making lots

691
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: of money, they're successful, or they're doing great in their career,

692
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: or you know, they're ticking all these boxes and that

693
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: obviously that's not a bad thing. But does that equate

694
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: to joy and happiness and calmness and contentment? And you know,

695
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: maybe maybe not. I think for a lot of people,

696
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: the answer is is not.

697
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 4: Oh, and definitely the research is showing that it isn't.

698
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 4: I mean, like you said, anxiety is skyrocketing, and that's

699
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 4: across the board, like from the really young people, youth

700
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 4: is probably skyrocketing even more than everybody else, but more

701
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 4: and more. Like I talk to a lot of business owners,

702
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 4: I'm around them a lot and more and more it's

703
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 4: I can't sleep, I can't my mind is racing all

704
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 4: the time. I feel stressed. My life is out of balance. So, yes,

705
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 4: they might be really successful and financially, but they're not

706
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 4: feeling intent, they're not enjoying their life. And so what

707
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 4: is the measure of success really when we think about it,

708
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 4: is that it's having a contentment and joy and fun

709
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 4: and good relationships. And if you are focused on kind

710
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 4: of just one version of success, which is often that

711
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 4: press desion, status and money aspect, you are not paying

712
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 4: attention to the other parts. And the other parts are

713
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 4: the ones that actually will make you happy or help

714
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 4: you feel content most of the time.

715
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Do you think in general terms that being

716
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: more resilient, whatever that means, but being more mentally and

717
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 1: emotionally resilient, it equates too less anxiety generally.

718
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 4: Well, I think with resilience, from what I know about resilience,

719
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 4: the way to have high resilience you kind of need

720
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 4: three factors. One is like good, solid, positive, supportive relationships

721
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 4: is number one, and then the second is like your mindset,

722
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 4: like how much you believe in yourself and your capabilities.

723
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 4: And then the third is like the skills that you need.

724
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 4: And so if you have those relationships in place, if

725
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 4: you believe in yourself and that, and you know that

726
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,919
Speaker 4: you're capable of doing things that you want to do,

727
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 4: and if you have the skills or people around you

728
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 4: who can model those skills that you need to achieve

729
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 4: what you want in life, then you will be less anxious.

730
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 4: So they are I think they're definitely related to each other.

731
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like this is my theory. You can't

732
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: really build resilience when you always choose the easy option,

733
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: right like, when you always take the comfortable, the quick fix,

734
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: the alleged painless, the magic pill, the reward without work option,

735
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:53,439
Speaker 1: you're not really building resilience because you're not doing anything hard. Yes, Now,

736
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: I don't think life needs to be a perpetual slog

737
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: or battle. But it's like saying I want to build

738
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 1: physical strength, but I'm not going to work against resistance.

739
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: I'm not going to lift any weights, I'm not going

740
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: to go to the gym, I'm not going to sweat well.

741
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: How you get strong physically is literally working against resistance.

742
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: And I feel like how you build mental and emotional

743
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: strength or resilience or grits or you know, these are

744
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: interchangeable terms to an extent as it you have to

745
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: be able to in an intelligent, not reckless, but intelligent way,

746
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: expose yourself to a level of stress, you know, so

747
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: that you can, like if you avoid pressure always.

748
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: Then how the fuck can you perform under pressure?

749
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: And life is pressure and some people are not going

750
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: to like you, and some things are not going to

751
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 1: work out, and even if you're a great person, bad

752
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: things will happen to you because that's the human experience.

753
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: And if we're always you know, mum or Dad's always

754
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: molly coddling us, or we're always like the skills that

755
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: you talk of, I agree, But where.

756
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 2: The fuck do they come from?

757
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: Like they have to come Like, how do you learn

758
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: to be good at something that you never do?

759
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: How do you overcome your fear of speaking in public.

760
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: It's by speaking in public's right, Yeah, yeah, muscles. Yeah.

761
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 4: The main treatment for anxiety is it's called exposure therapy,

762
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 4: so it literally is what you're saying. And I think

763
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 4: that that is a really important skill to impart to

764
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 4: young people, you know, like children from a very early age.

765
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 4: It is like when you're scared of something, unless it's

766
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:44,720
Speaker 4: actually dangerous or unsafe, approach it. If you approach things

767
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 4: that you're afraid of, that if it goes well, you

768
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 4: build confidence. If it doesn't go well, you build resilience.

769
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 4: So it's a win win sure, and then the next

770
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 4: time you do it it'll be even less anxiety provoking,

771
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 4: and the next time even less so. And like you said,

772
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 4: if you can do that, you build resilience and you're

773
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 4: less anxious over time. But at the same time, you

774
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 4: have to expect a certain level of stress and anxiety

775
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 4: in your life because that's just been a human Yeah.

776
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: I think just about in general with people, you know, kids,

777
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: grown ups. You know the idea of like kids playing

778
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: on monkey bars. Yep, someone's going to break an arm Yep,

779
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 1: that's going to happen. So do we ban monkey bars.

780
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: Do we never let children climb a tree? And I

781
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: know there's an element of risk, and I know, but

782
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 1: I wonder, and I'm not stating anything, I'm wondering out loud,

783
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: what is the cost of.

784
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: Nurfing the world with kids?

785
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: Of course you want to protect them, of course to

786
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: a point, But then where's the line and how much

787
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: do you let them fall down and learn and make mistakes?

788
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, you came last in the race,

789
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: and that's okay. We love you, you're awesome, but you

790
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: came last. And it's okay that you came last. We're

791
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: not going to pretend that you didn't. Like It's to

792
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 1: me that stuff where because when you leave the parental nest,

793
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: you're going to come last at something. You're going to

794
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: fuck up, you're going to get embarrassed, you're going to

795
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: be you're going to get rejected, you're going to like

796
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: And if we're not teaching kids about this when they're kids,

797
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: while still loving them and protecting them, I'm like, you know,

798
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: if they come out of the nest at eight nine

799
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: and twenty and then they got pushed out into a

800
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: reality they're ill prepared for.

801
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fucking that's dangerous too.

802
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's actually really important for kids to learn how

803
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 4: to feel their emotions, identif by their emotions, express their emotions,

804
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 4: validate their emotions, and so we're protecting them from disappointment

805
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 4: or embarrassment. Then they don't learn how to manage those

806
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 4: emotions and maybe even think that they're wrong to have

807
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 4: them in the first place. Like your example of like

808
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 4: coming last, I think this is something like, I mean,

809
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 4: I'm sure I've done this too. Like you don't want

810
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 4: to see your kids disappointed, so you might say, oh,

811
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 4: you know, it's you know, it's fine, or you know,

812
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 4: or this happened and that's why you came last. You

813
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 4: make excuses for it or whatever. But the child knows

814
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 4: they came last. So in some ways you're invalidating their experience,

815
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 4: their experiences that they came last, and they're disappointed by that.

816
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 4: But then you come in and you try to, you know,

817
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 4: like you said, make it better, and so they don't

818
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 4: get to express how disappointed they are because the message

819
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 4: they're getting is I shouldn't feel sad or disappointed, or

820
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 4: there's these other reasons why this.

821
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: Occurred, or it's okay though it's oh you're disappointed.

822
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 4: That's okay, Yes, exactly, it is okay to be it's actually, yeah,

823
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 4: it makes sense for you to be disappointed when you

824
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 4: come last. Actually, it does make sense. It's a painful emotion,

825
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 4: but it makes sense.

826
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: Well, this is coming from a kid too, an next

827
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: kid that came last a lot, like I came last

828
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 1: a lot. I would have stood there fifty sixty seventy

829
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: times as teams.

830
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 2: Were being picked.

831
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and being the last one picked, and that wasn't

832
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. But like, I know why I

833
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,760
Speaker 1: was the last one picked because I was the worst athlete,

834
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: because I was morbidly obese.

835
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 2: And I get it.

836
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: And people go, oh my god, oh my god, but

837
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: I get it. It's like I, oh, okay, Craig Will,

838
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,359
Speaker 1: I want good athletes. And at this point in you know,

839
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: later on I lost some weight and I became an

840
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: okay athlete and things changed a bit. But I know

841
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: for me anyway, and don't I wouldn't recommend that to anyone,

842
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: what I went through. And I understands it makes people

843
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: cringe and all of that, but and my experience, as

844
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: no one else's, I get all of that. But for me,

845
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: it made me really fucking motivated. Eventually, eventually I got

846
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: to the point I went, oh, well, I'm going to

847
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: keep coming last, I'm going to keep getting embarrassed, I'm

848
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: going to keep being socially invisible.

849
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 2: I'm going to fucking hell. And I could silk and winge.

850
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: And complain, but at the end of the day, I

851
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: was the problem because I was the one eating all

852
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: the food.

853
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 2: I was the one that you.

854
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: Know, my mum wasn't forced feeding me, you know, and

855
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: I was the one not exercising, and so you know,

856
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: it was painful, but it was also for me. It

857
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 1: was it was also a lesson and I wouldn't want

858
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: any other kids to necessarily go through that. But at

859
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: the same time, I think that I don't know, like

860
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: a little bit of messiness and a little bit of discomfort,

861
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 1: and you know, and by the way, it's it's never

862
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: going to stop happening. So we need to teach kids

863
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: and grown ups how to cope.

864
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, we do, and in lots of different ways. Like

865
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 4: you know, with my kids when they because they're they're

866
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 4: teenagers now, but you know, they when they turn like thirteen,

867
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 4: they start getting embarrassed by like everything. So like you

868
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 4: play the music too loud in the car with the

869
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,959
Speaker 4: windows up, turn the music down, you know, like there's

870
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 4: and I like, so I will purposefully embarrass them, like

871
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 4: because I think it's good for them, and I will

872
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 4: tell them that. I'll be like, it's good for you

873
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 4: to be embarrassed. You need to practice like being embarrassed.

874
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 4: So I'll just and it's not like it's not being spirited,

875
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 4: it's like literally so that they are resilient with that

876
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 4: emotion because there's so much, so much time and energy

877
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 4: wasted on feeling awkward, embarrassed, anxious. And if they don't

878
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 4: learn how to tolerate that now, even though they get

879
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 4: super annoyed by it, then what is it going to

880
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 4: be like in the future. Like, I'd rather them just

881
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 4: learn to be embarrassed now as a lesson, and so

882
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 4: then I get to enjoy it as well. I get

883
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 4: to enjoy it embarrassing it from time to time.

884
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 2: What about the idea of.

885
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: Parents who are like in Inverted Comma's best friends with

886
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 1: their kids?

887
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 2: Is that a dumb idea? I don't know that.

888
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 4: I feel like I don't know. It's just depends on

889
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 4: what you mean by that.

890
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: Well, you know how I've heard it moms say it

891
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: more than dad's. But I'll say with their you know,

892
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: by my daughter and I have best friends. I'm like, Okay,

893
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe that's a good idea. I just

894
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: I done well.

895
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 4: I mean, I think yeah, I think, gosh, I think

896
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 4: this is like a it's fraud. I think, like I

897
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 4: would like to think. But my daughter's seventeen. Now we

898
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 4: have a really open communicative relationship, but also a regular

899
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 4: mother daughter relationship where we get annoyed with each other

900
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 4: and all that sort of stuff. When she's older, I

901
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 4: would like her to considering me a best friend. I

902
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 4: feel like when you're both adults and you've gone through things.

903
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,919
Speaker 4: But I do say that it's not just that though

904
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 4: you're always going to be their mother, but potentially, and

905
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 4: I haven't gotten to this stage yet so I don't know,

906
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 4: but potentially, when as they get older, you're doing a

907
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 4: lot less mothering, so there's more room for the friendship

908
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 4: side to develop. What when they're children and adolescens, your

909
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 4: primary role is mother like guidance, boundary, lessons, and friendship

910
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 4: is if it's there, it's secondary. It can't be the primary.

911
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 4: Because I don't know it depends on what kind of

912
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 4: friends you have. Like you if your friendships are about

913
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 4: you know, advice giving and setting boundaries and you like

914
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 4: teaching lessons and stuff, maybe that's your version of friendship

915
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 4: and that's what it means to you. But I guess

916
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:39,919
Speaker 4: I think that you can It's one of those things.

917
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 4: Maybe you can be both at the same time, but

918
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 4: at different stages of their development. One is going to

919
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 4: come out a lot more than the other.

920
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 2: Do you ever talk to your patients Do you call

921
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:51,720
Speaker 2: them patients or clients?

922
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 1: Patients call them clients. Do you ever talk to your

923
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: clients about about their own thinking? You know, like metacognitive

924
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: like where you.

925
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 2: Just oh when you think that.

926
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 1: Do you ever hit the pause button then go wow,

927
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 1: where did that thought come from? Or why do I

928
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: think that? Or where did that belief come from? Does

929
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 1: that serve me or sabotage me?

930
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 2: Where?

931
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: You know, we try to understand our own mind and

932
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: the processes of our own mind, just to create a

933
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:29,319
Speaker 1: bit of space between me and my mind, me and

934
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: my thoughts. Do you ever talk to people about that

935
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: kind of metacognitive kind of process.

936
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's kind of the foundation of most

937
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 4: of the therapy that I do. I would say it's

938
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 4: the foundation of cognitive behavioral therapy to be aware of

939
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 4: your thoughts, to challenge your thoughts potentially, to understand where

940
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 4: they come from, the origins of your thoughts, modify them. Also,

941
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 4: you know, a core skill is mindfulness, not of CBT

942
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,919
Speaker 4: so much, but you know, the kind of third wave

943
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 4: CBT therapies like acceptance and commitment therapy and dialectical behavior

944
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 4: therapy include mindfulness as a core skill, and part of

945
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 4: that can be mindfulness of your thoughts. Like I've I recorded,

946
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 4: I record. I don't know if you know this, but

947
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 4: I've recorded like like three albums of relaxation and mindfulness

948
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 4: exercises over the years, and one of the ones that

949
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 4: I recorded is called mindfulness of thoughts like clouds in

950
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 4: the sky and what that. The purpose of that is

951
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 4: so that people can observe their thoughts non judgmentally and

952
00:56:55,400 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 4: so without trying to change anything. So so helping people understand,

953
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 4: like be able to see their thoughts from a distance

954
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 4: as an observer and not necessarily attached to them and

955
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 4: hold on to them or even engage them in any way,

956
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 4: not like not even challenge them or anything, just literally

957
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 4: just watching them go by, just like you might watch

958
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 4: the sky and see the clouds go by, or sometimes

959
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 4: people like to imagine like leaves on a stream. Sometimes

960
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 4: that can be extremely helpful for anxiety and stress management,

961
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 4: and especially the non judgmental peace of mindfulness. I think

962
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 4: that that's people often talk about mindfulness as being in

963
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 4: the present moment, which it is, but they're forgetting the

964
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 4: other part of it, which is the judgmental part. It's

965
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 4: observing things in the present moment nonjudgmentally. That makes it

966
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 4: a really helpful practice. And when you can do that,

967
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 4: and that's probably one of the hardest things to do,

968
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 4: then you can again to achieve I guess more emotional

969
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 4: and cognitive stability.

970
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 2: Do you think people are.

971
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: Aware of the space between the thing that's happening and

972
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: their story about the thing that's happening, you know, like

973
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: the reality, the objective reality of the event or the

974
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: situation or the circumstance versus our interpretation of it. You know,

975
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 1: it's like when someone listens to me and I say fuck,

976
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: and they think I'm offensive than their experiences, they are offended. Yes,

977
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: when someone else hears the ex or is impacted by

978
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: the exact same stimulus me saying fuck, and they think

979
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: it's amusing their literal experiences. They're amused, right, and so

980
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 1: whatever their story is about that, I'm just using that

981
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: word because people can relate, you know, because people are

982
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: going to respond one way. Oh that's offensive, that's funny,

983
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: that's inappropriate, that's appropriate.

984
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 2: Oh that's craig, you know.

985
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: Like people have a story and then they believe their

986
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: story and that becomes their experience. So for them it's

987
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: not like, oh, this is just my personal response. They're like, no,

988
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: that is categorically offensive. No, bro, it's just offensive to

989
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: you because there's nineteen other people.

990
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 2: Who are not offended.

991
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: Yes, is that kind of opening the door on becoming

992
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: more self aware of our own ability to create a

993
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: subjective experience in the middle of the objective whatever that's

994
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: going on.

995
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that your question about whether most people

996
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 4: are aware of that maybe not. Again, that's like a

997
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 4: foundational foundation of CBT is this idea that our thoughts

998
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 4: are what and our interpretations and our perspectives impact how

999
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 4: we feel and what we do. So if we understand

1000
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 4: what the difference is between the facts of the situation, yes,

1001
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 4: and our interpretation of the facts. Yes, then we can

1002
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 4: do a lot with how we not just the content

1003
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 4: of what we think, but our patterns of thinking. Yes,

1004
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 4: it's not just like I'm like, I'm offended because you know,

1005
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 4: my beliefs or this or that, But it's also like,

1006
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 4: do I have a pattern of thinking that is full

1007
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 4: of shoulds all or nothing? Black or white? Thinking? Over

1008
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 4: generalizing all of these kinds of patterns that we all

1009
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 4: have to some extent, But for some people they have

1010
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 4: a lot more. And because they're not aware, they don't

1011
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 4: realize how much it's impacting their life and how they

1012
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 4: interact with the world and how and how it actually

1013
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 4: impacts them internally.

1014
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: I think also too, when when you think so in

1015
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: way about something, or you have a certain idea or

1016
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: ideology or philosophy or belief about a certain thing and

1017
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: you've believed that or you've thought that about that for

1018
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: a very long time and you're sure about that, that

1019
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: gets into woven with your identity. And so when I

1020
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: challenge that thought or that idea, then for you, I'm

1021
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: challenging your identity.

1022
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know so.

1023
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: And it's like the idea of being open minded is easy.

1024
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 1: The reality the reality is another thing.

1025
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 4: Right, totally. I agree with that, and for sure, like

1026
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 4: there have been many times where I'm like, my thought

1027
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 4: process has been more like I'm right or wrong. And

1028
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 4: that's with awareness, right, that's with knowing.

1029
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: That's you being a clinical psychologist who's smart.

1030
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, and.

1031
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 4: I'm being willful right in that moment, I know that

1032
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 4: I'm being wilful and stubborn and irrational at the same

1033
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 4: time as I would like to express that I am

1034
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 4: correct and you know nothing.

1035
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: And as I've said many times, when you think or

1036
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 1: I think on a particular matter that I am unequivocally right,

1037
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: then I also believe concurrently that everyone in the world

1038
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: who disagrees with me is wrong.

1039
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 4: Right.

1040
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 2: No, that's a big stand.

1041
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: Hey, we've got to wind up because Tiff and I

1042
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: have got another show in a little while. I wish

1043
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: we had more time, but I love chatting with you.

1044
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: How can people connect with you, doctor Lillian.

1045
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 4: Well, they can have a look at the website Doctor

1046
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 4: Liliannaja dot com and if they want to work on

1047
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 4: their worries and anxiety can go to Contain your Brain

1048
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 4: dot com.

1049
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 2: Awesome, we appreciate you. It's always fun chatting.

1050
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 4: To you great type of to you, guys.

1051
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: You've spain over there, just man handling. Oh I nearly

1052
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: said something terrible, bear, and I wasn't even.

1053
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 2: Trying to be funny.

1054
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 4: Craig her Cat exactly well exactly yes, Thanks TIV, Thanks guys.

1055
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 1: Bye,