1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:05,360
Speaker 1: Today is World's Suicide Prevention Day, very important day, and

2
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,200
Speaker 1: just this morning arrived a book in the mail. I

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,799
Speaker 1: haven't had a chance to do more than skim through it,

4
00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,920
Speaker 1: but it's called Profiles in Hope, written by John Brogden,

5
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,080
Speaker 1: who has been associated involved running Lifeline for many years

6
00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,520
Speaker 1: now here in Australia, former leader of the Opposition in

7
00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:29,800
Speaker 1: New South Wales, which in its own place in the

8
00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,520
Speaker 1: scheme of things led to a suicide attempt by John

9
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,960
Speaker 1: after he left the job. He in writing this book

10
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: has spoken to many well known people about their descent

11
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:51,080
Speaker 1: into a black hole and the survival I suppose of

12
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 1: an attempt to commit suicide for many of them just remarkable.

13
00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 1: While I haven't done more, as I say, than skim

14
00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,480
Speaker 1: through this book, I did read over the weekend in

15
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:04,600
Speaker 1: the Weekend Australian, a terrific writer by Christine Middap interviewing

16
00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 1: John and his experiences in speaking with the many Australians

17
00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:15,040
Speaker 1: Nick Sherry, former federal politician Lane Beachley, Jackie Lamby, James

18
00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:20,760
Speaker 1: Packer and others. John Brugden, good morning, how are you

19
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 1: all right? Thank you. We've spoken about the importance of

20
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 1: Lifeline many times in the past, but this book, I

21
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,600
Speaker 1: think is and from what I've read of it, what

22
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,160
Speaker 1: I've skimmed. As I said, notice through it's written as

23
00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,680
Speaker 1: an interview and really easy to read from the little

24
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,559
Speaker 1: bits I have stopped to read as I flicked through.

25
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,199
Speaker 1: What made you put it all together?

26
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 2: And also, Matthew was important for people's stories to be

27
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 2: told in their own words. I mean, I thought about

28
00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,640
Speaker 2: as I was putting the idea together that maybe we

29
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,440
Speaker 2: could maybe we could, I could write up what they're thinking,

30
00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,320
Speaker 2: what they're saying. But I think it's so much more

31
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,120
Speaker 2: powerful to see it written down in their own words.

32
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,760
Speaker 1: And that's what you've achieved. And reading through the article

33
00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,679
Speaker 1: I mean Packer and what James Packer had to say

34
00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,280
Speaker 1: and the others too, just extraordinary. And you know, let

35
00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,640
Speaker 1: me let me ask you, John, the fact that you

36
00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,720
Speaker 1: were found in time and survived and rushed to hospital

37
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,480
Speaker 1: and all of that, And for all of you in

38
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,280
Speaker 1: this book and people listening who have maybe been through this,

39
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,679
Speaker 1: I mean, you must think, thank goodness I failed in that.

40
00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no doubt. I look back and I thank

41
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,639
Speaker 2: God every day that I complete my suicide. I wanted

42
00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 2: to die. I'd stuffed up publicly, and I felt that

43
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,680
Speaker 2: I'd put such a burden of shame on people, and

44
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,840
Speaker 2: that I was better off dead, better off giving them,

45
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,320
Speaker 2: giving the people around me who loved me and cared

46
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,720
Speaker 2: for me and supported the not having to carry my burdeness.

47
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,880
Speaker 2: But you know, it's interesting that that somebody let me

48
00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,680
Speaker 2: say that, and you think, look, no, that makes sense,

49
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,960
Speaker 2: not sensible to think and talk that way. But the

50
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:09,160
Speaker 2: reality is you should never use rational thought to judge suicide,

51
00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,560
Speaker 2: which is probably the most rational of all actions.

52
00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's spot on. So this is where the messaging

53
00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 1: and let's talk about that now. This is where it's

54
00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 1: so important that people ask. And today is World Source

55
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,520
Speaker 1: Side Prevention Day, but Thursdays are you Okay?

56
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:24,799
Speaker 2: Day?

57
00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,760
Speaker 1: And I think it goes beyond asking are you okay,

58
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,880
Speaker 1: because all of us our natural comeback is yeah, I am.

59
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 1: And then you've got to trust your gut to say yeah,

60
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:35,800
Speaker 1: but are you really okay?

61
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 2: Yes?

62
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 1: And hopefully then you get somewhere.

63
00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,040
Speaker 2: You're so right. I mean you really have to say

64
00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 2: to perplem, we're experts. We're absolutely experts. Yeah, yeah, look

65
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:50,040
Speaker 2: everything's sign and you know, trying to get away with

66
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 2: trying to keep the mask on, trying to protect ourselves

67
00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,640
Speaker 2: from having to be open. And you do have to

68
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,760
Speaker 2: drill down. Matthew, You're absolutely right, And what you also

69
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,600
Speaker 2: need to do, particularly you're worried about somebody's suicidality, what

70
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 2: you absolutely have to do is ask the question. I mean,

71
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 2: as strange as it may seem, you literally have to

72
00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 2: ask the questions, are you feeling suicidal? Do you want

73
00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,560
Speaker 2: to kill yourself? Do you want to hurt yourself? Because

74
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,000
Speaker 2: that draws out where people are thinking and where they're at.

75
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 2: Every bone in our body probably makes us think that's

76
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,720
Speaker 2: the last thing I should ask that, and I might

77
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,760
Speaker 2: even put the thought in their mind. But all of

78
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,520
Speaker 2: our research, all of our experience, shows that that's what

79
00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 2: makes a difference when you bring somebody right back to

80
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,640
Speaker 2: the reality of their daily life and ask them a

81
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:36,600
Speaker 2: tough question like that.

82
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,640
Speaker 1: Would it have worked with you if somebody had said

83
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 1: that to you in the day seating up?

84
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,080
Speaker 2: Would it? I've been asked before, and I think it

85
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 2: would have worked for me. I think when I look back,

86
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,760
Speaker 2: I would have said yes. I would have answered honestly,

87
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,159
Speaker 2: and you know, maybe I wouldn't have got right to

88
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,600
Speaker 2: the point of literally, you know, taking actions to kill myself.

89
00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,799
Speaker 2: So yes, I think it would have made a difference.

90
00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,520
Speaker 2: I know, I know so many people, my friends and family,

91
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,880
Speaker 2: were so worried that something would go wrong under the

92
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 2: pressure that I wasn't under at that point. But you know,

93
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,039
Speaker 2: I think we didn't know that we should ask that question.

94
00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,520
Speaker 2: Nineteen years ago. We didn't know that that was the

95
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:18,599
Speaker 2: right question to ask.

96
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and still today, as you say it's every instinct

97
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,320
Speaker 1: goes against asking that because you don't want to put

98
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 1: that thought in someone's head, but it may very well

99
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:29,920
Speaker 1: be already there.

100
00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,720
Speaker 2: Correct. Correct. And of course the flip side is if

101
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 2: somebody says no, but you know this is getting me down,

102
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,680
Speaker 2: or this has happened, you know you'll get an opportunity

103
00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,039
Speaker 2: to help them, and you know if they do say yes,

104
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,279
Speaker 2: I am feeling like myself. But I make the point

105
00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,599
Speaker 2: in the book, Matthew that you don't have to be

106
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 2: a heart surgeon to help somebody who's had a heart attack.

107
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:54,600
Speaker 2: At the very least you can stay with him in

108
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,560
Speaker 2: a triple oh. So you don't have to be a

109
00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,560
Speaker 2: psychologist or a psychiatrist, or a councilor to help somebody

110
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,280
Speaker 2: who tells you they're suicidalists, they're at real risk. You

111
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,680
Speaker 2: put them in a car and you take them to

112
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,240
Speaker 2: the emergency, or you just hold them and you bring

113
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,839
Speaker 2: triple os, or you even get a lifeline on the

114
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,479
Speaker 2: line and you talk it through with lifeline. But you

115
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,520
Speaker 2: don't have to mean a lot of people think, well, God,

116
00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 2: if they say yes, what do I do? Well? Treat

117
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,880
Speaker 2: them as if they've had a heart attack. I think

118
00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 2: even the least experience of us would know. At the

119
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,560
Speaker 2: very least you ring triple oh if you're worried about

120
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:27,320
Speaker 2: somebody's life.

121
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, spot on some of the stories. And again

122
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,039
Speaker 1: I'll refer back to the Weekend Australian because that's what

123
00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,360
Speaker 1: I did read and Jackie Lambeg's story in waking up

124
00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 1: from the suicide attempt, her boys around her, a dad

125
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 1: around her, and that would be almost harder than anything

126
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:45,279
Speaker 1: dealing with that.

127
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:52,279
Speaker 2: Well, I remember myself and I know exactly how Jackie feels.

128
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 2: I remember when the ambulance got me to hospital and

129
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 2: my wife and family and closest friends were literally standing

130
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,840
Speaker 2: around me, you know, holding me sitting in the bed

131
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,640
Speaker 2: in the emergency department, and I remember I was unable

132
00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,679
Speaker 2: to open my eyes to look at loosing my wife

133
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,240
Speaker 2: or anyone else because I was still so ashamed, but

134
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 2: still so ashamed about what I'd done before that led

135
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,280
Speaker 2: to the suicide attempt. But yes, I mean you think

136
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:24,000
Speaker 2: to yourself, well, I'm you know here I am. I've

137
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,480
Speaker 2: survived the attempt and now I've got a front up

138
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,480
Speaker 2: to it, which is hard, of course at part, but

139
00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,000
Speaker 2: you know there is a way through. There are people

140
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:36,560
Speaker 2: a help, you know. I like the Churchill line about democracy, Matthew,

141
00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,520
Speaker 2: which is democracy is the worst form of government except

142
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 2: for every other form in the world. And I say

143
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 2: we have the worst mental health system in Australia except

144
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,680
Speaker 2: for all the others. I mean, as I've traveled the

145
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,560
Speaker 2: world as the present of Lifeline International, you know there

146
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,720
Speaker 2: are like maybe the UK and developing in the US

147
00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,760
Speaker 2: is where we see anything like Lifeline. I mean countries

148
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 2: like Argentina in Bonosaris, the cap their Lifeline operates can

149
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 2: only operate sixteen hours a day. That's all they can do.

150
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,200
Speaker 2: So you know, our mental health system is not perfect.

151
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,840
Speaker 2: There are too many cracks that have to be joined up.

152
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,920
Speaker 2: People can fall through the cracks, and those nine people

153
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,960
Speaker 2: on average every day, those nine Australians who take their

154
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,160
Speaker 2: own lives on average seven men and two women. That's

155
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,200
Speaker 2: just too high. That's twice the number of people who

156
00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 2: dine and road accidents. And you think, and I don't

157
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,280
Speaker 2: mean this in a Reilly sense, but do you think

158
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,520
Speaker 2: I mean if somebody is mauled or killed by a shark,

159
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 2: that runs the news for days, and it runs internationally.

160
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,559
Speaker 2: But nine people die by suicide every day. I think

161
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,679
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago four people died in shark.

162
00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 2: So just to give you an example of how many

163
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 2: people are dying from the suicide. And I don't know, Matthew,

164
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 2: you do a lot of work in this space. This

165
00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,319
Speaker 2: is a lot of people every day. I don't know

166
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,640
Speaker 2: whether we've forgotten about it, we don't know how to

167
00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,640
Speaker 2: deal with it, or we've just got used to it.

168
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,400
Speaker 2: But the numbers so stubborn and we need to do

169
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,120
Speaker 2: something different and do something fast, to break through and

170
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:06,959
Speaker 2: fade live absolutely.

171
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,720
Speaker 1: Profiles in Hope is the book John Brugden mcgainst, John,

172
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,559
Speaker 1: what do you hope it achieves? Ultimately? Your book?

173
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,320
Speaker 2: Well, I think two things. First of all, to give

174
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,680
Speaker 2: messages of a hope to people who are at the

175
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 2: worst and darkest point in their life that they can

176
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 2: get through is help and there is a way back.

177
00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,400
Speaker 2: That's the big message on I'm very very keen that

178
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,440
Speaker 2: people take that message. And also it doesn't matter whether

179
00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:36,120
Speaker 2: you're privileged and wealthy like James Packet, whether you're world

180
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:41,439
Speaker 2: famous like Ian Cod or whether a household name in Australia,

181
00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:47,199
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter, sadly to a fidality and mental illness

182
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,840
Speaker 2: does not discriminate. So the way I wrote the book

183
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,959
Speaker 2: with that great variety of people in it, Matthew, was

184
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:58,000
Speaker 2: to also provide an opportunity for people from a vast background,

185
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,480
Speaker 2: but the vast backgrounds of Australia in a city country,

186
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,720
Speaker 2: male female, to look into that book and hopefully relate

187
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,400
Speaker 2: to the people in the stories and realize they're not alioned.

188
00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so important. Hey. Look the forward written by

189
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,760
Speaker 1: Peter Gosgrove cost Grove is really interesting. He talks of

190
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 1: an experience where he assisted somebody years ago. The person

191
00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,360
Speaker 1: was a soldier, as I understand it, Yeah, and they

192
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:31,920
Speaker 1: saved him, which is good. But coming yesterday, the results

193
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,600
Speaker 1: of the Royal Commission into Veterans Suicides, the timing is

194
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,360
Speaker 1: just I suppose handy for one of a better term

195
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,800
Speaker 1: in your book coming out right at this moment, because

196
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,640
Speaker 1: that would have concerned you seeing the reports in the

197
00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,839
Speaker 1: media today last night about just where we're at with

198
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:50,640
Speaker 1: that dreadful scourge.

199
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I mean it's obviously the stressing and unacceptable

200
00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,640
Speaker 2: that people who put on the uniform and ultimate prepare

201
00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,120
Speaker 2: to go to war to keep us safe have a

202
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,400
Speaker 2: higher suicide rate, a markedly high suicide rate bug in

203
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 2: the military and in retirement. And that's unacceptable. So this

204
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 2: Royal Commission has I think one hundred and twenty or

205
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,560
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty two recommendations and they're dig and small,

206
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,360
Speaker 2: and I hope they all move to make a difference

207
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,120
Speaker 2: because you know, the you just you just have to

208
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 2: listen to the stories. You just have to see the

209
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,160
Speaker 2: mums in particular talk about the whole less in their

210
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,959
Speaker 2: hearts and like Jackie Lamby, people who've been left down

211
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,480
Speaker 2: by veterans affairs, who've not been treated properly, have not

212
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,959
Speaker 2: been given the right medication and the right treatment to

213
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,280
Speaker 2: get them through physical and mental injury. There's another bloke

214
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,720
Speaker 2: in the book, then, Saranazo, who are Queensland Guy Aboriginal

215
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,200
Speaker 2: Italian heritage joined the army exceptionally well deployed to these

216
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 2: sea more he the village, they sent him too. He

217
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,480
Speaker 2: went into the church. The village was as Hey winned

218
00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,959
Speaker 2: the church and literally the war for covered in blood,

219
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,200
Speaker 2: covet in blood. He worked there for a while to

220
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,760
Speaker 2: get the community back together, to interview them for the

221
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,640
Speaker 2: purposes of I guess war crimes and the like. And

222
00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 2: then one afternoon they see you going home tomorrow put

223
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,280
Speaker 2: him on a plane. He arrived in Brisbane, went out

224
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,960
Speaker 2: for lunches if nothing had happened. So we can't We

225
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 2: can't do that, and I know that we have to

226
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,559
Speaker 2: do a lot more. It'll cost money and it will

227
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,200
Speaker 2: take time. But people need to know that being a soldier,

228
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,440
Speaker 2: a sailor or an aviator means you will be safe

229
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 2: and you will prosper with your mental illness, acknowledging it.

230
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,520
Speaker 2: It's a job. It's a hard job, you know, being

231
00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,280
Speaker 2: trying to kill people, seeing people killed, and all of

232
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,800
Speaker 2: those sorts of things are obviously traumatic. But we know

233
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,439
Speaker 2: that going in, we know that's what's going to happen

234
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,920
Speaker 2: to them going in, So we need to be prepared

235
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,640
Speaker 2: to that. And the same really applies, Matthew to police

236
00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,120
Speaker 2: and ambos who see and fiaries who see some horrible

237
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,240
Speaker 2: stuff and some horrible stuff in their lives. And you know,

238
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,680
Speaker 2: we need to make sure that we learn the lessons

239
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:04,040
Speaker 2: of the Defense for All Commission because they're different, but

240
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,439
Speaker 2: they're similar in the sense that they are uniform services. Yeah.

241
00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely, like you're an important note at the start too, John,

242
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,319
Speaker 1: And for anyone listening to this conversation, as you've heard,

243
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,839
Speaker 1: it's so important you reach out thirteen eleven fourteen Lifeline

244
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,120
Speaker 1: And as John said, we're in a country where that

245
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,559
Speaker 1: is available twenty four to seven. There's a text number

246
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,319
Speaker 1: as well, essentially the same four seven seven thirteen eleven fourteen,

247
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,000
Speaker 1: and make sure you reach out and please do. And

248
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,120
Speaker 1: John two loved the quote from Richard Nixon and I

249
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,320
Speaker 1: kind of had that as I saw a docco on Nix.

250
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,000
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how long ago, like the Watergate thing,

251
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 1: and he gives that speech, the final speech in the

252
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,080
Speaker 1: White House where he says, only if you've been in

253
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,720
Speaker 1: the deepest valley, can you ever know how magnificent it

254
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,160
Speaker 1: is to be on the highest mountain? And you try

255
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:50,959
Speaker 1: and live your life by that you you know you

256
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 1: do well as a motivator, and that all stuck with me.

257
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,840
Speaker 2: I realize this and this is a very personal view.

258
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,920
Speaker 2: Somewhere in the last twenty years, mat we decided to

259
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,679
Speaker 2: tell everybody in the world, but every day of your

260
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 2: life should be magic, special and you should never have

261
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,439
Speaker 2: a bad day in your life. The problem is everybody

262
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:13,360
Speaker 2: has bad days. Mum dies, dad dies, husband, wife, sons, daughter.

263
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 2: We lose our marriages, our businesses fail, we get sacked

264
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 2: from our jobs, farmers have terrible droughts. Why we think

265
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 2: we're title sounds a terrible word to just leave every

266
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,000
Speaker 2: day happily. The problem with it is when the hard

267
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,640
Speaker 2: days do come along, and they will come, we're just

268
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,840
Speaker 2: not prepared for them. So sick. We have to recalibrate

269
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,680
Speaker 2: the way we think that. Yeah, look, let's try and

270
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,480
Speaker 2: have it every day a happy day, but we're going

271
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,560
Speaker 2: to have bad days. We're going to have heart done this,

272
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,240
Speaker 2: so be prepared for them so you can bounce back.

273
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,160
Speaker 1: Indeed, John brogdam lovely talking to you. Best wish us

274
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 1: with the book. I make a difference from many people.

275
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,280
Speaker 2: Thank you, And if anybody's interested all the royals. He's

276
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,880
Speaker 2: go to Lifeline. I'm not receiving any income out of it,

277
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,360
Speaker 2: and you can just jump online and die through. The

278
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,080
Speaker 2: publisher has shed, or book Toopia or Sandy local bookshop.

279
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 1: Good on you, John, thank you, thank you, Matthew. I

280
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 1: guess John Brodder, the book profiles in Hope